June 1, 2004

Program Introduction and the Need to Give a Defense

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 and now with today's topic here is James White and.

Catching Up After the Long Island Trip and Recent Speaking Engagements

Welcome to the dividing line on this Tuesday morning. It is June 1st 2004 is flying by and it's been what three weeks something like that it's been a while since we were last here live or in any other form actually and Lots of stuff has happened since then so we're going to be catching you up on that today because that's what we do around here on the dividing line the normal cast of utter nutcases are sitting in channel with their various sundry irrelevant comments.

The peanut gallery is full and So the crowd has gathered and all is well. And I can tell it's getting close to summer. Because as I look at my little weather bug doohickey whopper down there in the system tray.

It is red which means it has three digits in it only a hundred. I remember last August at 11 o 'clock the morning I've seen like a hundred and twelve and discussing things like that, and it's coming. I know it's it's.

Unless that movies right we're gonna freeze to death. Which I really don't think we're in a lot of danger of here in Phoenix personally, but anyway. It's already warm outside. Today was the first morning.

I went out in the morning, and it's like already hot, and it's like huh yeah here comes. It had always been a little bit. You know there's still a bit a little cool air and it's gone so we won't see the cool air again until the middle of November's so we've got about five and a half months of this to look forward to anyway.

Got back from Long Island yesterday morning and That always makes for a very long trip. It's always. Those you don't do a lot of flying. It's much faster to go from the west to the east than it is from the east to the west that's due to the prevailing winds of course and.

So it's a long flight, and I got stuck in about the worst seat. I could get stuck in actually. No, it wasn't a middle seat between two football players that would probably be worse from the thing of it though at least that would have held me up straight, but you know those exit rows where there's not a in the Airbus 319 where there's Not a window right next to the door, so it's just two seats, and then there's an open space now that has more legroom.

But if you're stuck in the middle one. Where do you put your head to try to sleep since it doesn't lean back and? Every time I start to fall asleep because I only got a couple hours of sleep the night before.

Every time I start to fall asleep my head would fall forward and then of course you wake up jerking your head. And you look like an idiot and everybody chuckles at you and stuff like that so. It was a long flight back, but anyways we got back and as some of you know it was a if you've been following the the blog at all it was a two-part trip to Long Island and What I mean by that is hey, I messed up.

You know I make lots of mistakes, and I messed up we Scheduled the debate for the 20th of May and once Chris Arnson back there on Long Island talks to the folks at the Huntington townhouse. And you put your date in your date is in that's that's it.

You're that's when you're gonna have it. And I recall last I think it was January. Yeah, I was last January when I was on Long Island. I Was driving along the Northern Parkway those of you in the New York area.

You know where that is. When all of a sudden it hit me oh No. Oh. When does my son graduate from high school? I mean I knew this could be in May. I graduated from high school in June if you notice how it keeps getting earlier and it pretty soon people gonna be graduating in like February.

I mean it just doesn't make any sense anymore. But anyway, and so I got on the phone made some phone calls discovered. My son graduates from high school on the 21st the debates on the 20th, and he graduates the next night.

Okay, now those debates go late. They always go late. They don't go as late as they used to thankfully now that we have Bill Shishkoe moderating the debates. They get done at 11 o 'clock right on the nose.

But then you talk with folks, and you got to pack everything up by the time you get out of there. You're you know you're looking at after midnight. And then we go get something to eat because you're famished by then and normally get back to the hotel 132 a .m..

The morning well, here's the problem. I have to catch the 7 a .m.. Flight out of JFK to get back for the graduation and so. That that ended up being an adventure. I'll get to in a moment, but so it's a two-part trip.

And so there was the the first week which included the debate and then there was I was home for the debate around the debate graduation weekend went back for the past five or six days and Was ministering there on Long Island now.

We're back, and I go back in two and a half weeks. Which has been scheduled for a long time? I've been invited to speak by the American Bible Society at their celebration of the 400th anniversary of the translation of the King James Version which of course began in 1604 and was completed in 1611 took seven years which I'm sure someone finds to be numerologically interesting or relevant or something but Anyway, I go back in two and a half weeks for some more some more ministry back there.

No debates or anything like that, but be that as it may and so I started off going over to New Jersey to Calvary Evangelical Free Church hat-trick and channel arranged this and we had a men's breakfast fellowship in the morning and Here you got guys coming out early in the morning.

And I'm doing a presentation on the Trinity, and I didn't think I lost anybody no one. No one fell off their chairs asleep or anything like that, so I guess I survived and managed to Get the information across in that context.

It was very easy to get over there. Not so easy to get back. Whatever you do. Don't try to cross the George, Washington Bridge. At the couple hours before a Yankee game it's just There's just nothing like trying to get into New York.

If you don't live in a place like that you just you just can't understand what an hour in traffic and no one's really You know upset about it. You know I mean, it's just like yeah This is it's a bridge and all you that they make you pay money to do it 14 bucks in tolls back and forth to New Jersey and back again the main thing is they pay you to get out of New Jersey which I just don't understand at all.

I mean I would think that that that that they would pay you to get out, but the subway works, so we do not have toll roads Here in Arizona because we would shoot anyone who would try to put toll roads in him.

But they don't have to worry about that back there because they don't have the Second Amendment in east of the Mississippi River so anyway. Then the next day I spoke at the Massapequa Church of God. Jim Capo is the pastor there, and I've spoken there Six seven times now I think Spoke on the passion of the Christ in the morning and in the evening to judge or not to judge Matthew chapter 7 verses 1 through 2 and actually I think I went through 4 or something like that, but Spoke on those subjects had a great time with those folks.

They're wonderful folks. And then the next two Wednesday nights the Wednesday night before the debate and the Wednesday night after the debate. One at Calvary Baptist Church in Medford and then the other at Edmores Church, North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens.

I spoke on the same-sex marriage controversy same subject. Interesting how the two presentations differed from one another different different context different audiences and things like that, but spoke on the issue of homosexual marriage, and how that is an oxymoron and what the scriptures say about that and Both Both churches sort of wondered have you ever had anybody like show up and like you know cause problems when you were addressing things like this and and I said nope actually haven't and Still haven't to this point so we didn't have any problems the Barry Lynn debate.

Haven't had any problems so far. That's because I'm just so such a minor person that no one really cares. But I would imagine if we started you know attracting some some interest that kind of thing would happen.

But didn't didn't happen, and we had an excellent Excellent time with both those those churches. I always love going to North Shore because Edmore is just a tremendous guy and I stayed with Ed the second year.

I went out to Long Island and so I have stories I Have I have fond memories of Puglio's Italian restaurants down near Chinatown in Manhattan. And I will never ever forget those things. It's just I'm sorry.

I it was very funny, but anyway, then of course a Thursday night, May 20th we had the great debate and What do we say about the great debate. I I commented on it too briefly on the blog both right after the debate and also again, I think day before yesterday I Commented about the spin machine that has that has fired up.

We'll talk about the spin machine is saying the debate went very well it was again run very well by Bill Shishko. We started fairly close to on time not quite but fairly close to on time. We had a good group of folks there not quite as many as past debates.

But we sort of expected that because of the topic. We knew there were a lot of folks that just go. I Mean, let's face it if we did a Marion topic. Which I'd like to do again the future because that was the first one we did and we didn't really cover it that well.

Because we did four topics in one debate and I would like to do The Marion dogmas as a whole in the in the debate series there on Long Island and hopefully we'll be able to arrange that hopefully with someone I haven't debated the topic with before anyway, and So If we had a Marion time, we would had you know, probably another 50 more people than we had there.

And the crowd was was calm and collected. There wasn't at least I did not notice the little fan group down front that had been there the year before sort of Cheering on my opponent then and making various and sundry comments to me.

So it was very calm and collected from that perspective and it wasn't just Gary Machuda who was there. I had never met Mr. Machuda before he is a very large man about six foot eight and so we had to keep tilting the cameras back and forth with the two of us would speak because I'm not six foot eight and So he was he was very nice.

We didn't really we just shook hands said hello. We didn't talk about anything at all, but You know, it was a very straightforward debate as far as that goes and nothing again nothing no major fireworks in comparison to some years we didn't have some of the Tension, for example was in the Stravinskis debate and things like that.

It was very straightforward and as I've thought back over the debate I could have done significantly better in the cross-examination There are I've thought of two areas that I They were there in my notes and for some reason I just normally I put a circle next to something that I want to catch during the cross-ex and For some odd reason this year.

I don't know why as we were talking about the cross-examination period I Only thought there was one of it. It didn't catch my thinking that we were going to do 12 minutes 12 minutes 12 minutes 12 minutes Actually supposed to be 15 15 15 15, but we cut it back to to make the debate and at the right time and so when the second period started I was like I've already used all the the ones I was Going to use and so I was gonna have to go back over them and it for some reason don't know why Old dumb stupid whatever I am.

I just didn't think of Two areas that I really should have focused in on better than I did. One was the fact that I mentioned the the existence was called the glossa ordinaria Which is a the medieval commentary on Scripture almost an interlinear type running commentary on Scripture.

Sort of the ancient version of the NIV study Bible. I guess we might put it that way and I don't know what the most popular study Bible is today. I know when I was a young person there was really only one and that was the The Schofield study Bible and I had one and It's maybe the NIV study Bible would be the best example today of a very popular widely read Commentary running commentary on the scriptures.

Well, the glossa ordinaria. That's what it is and The glossa ordinaria before each of the apocryphal books said Tobit is not in the canon Maccabees is not in the canon now how The most popular commentary and it's not like there were it's not like you had 50 or 60 or 70 I'm running around.

It was basically the only one and it was used in all the centers of theological learning not just for a few years. But for centuries on end The glossa ordinaria says these books are not canonical now.

The assumption of mr. Machuda's presentation from the beginning was in essence he assumed his own position and Contented himself with attacking the information that would demonstrate that his position is not the unanimous voice of history and He was very well prepared to do that.

He was very well prepared to try to cast doubt for example on basically all Jewish literature as far as well. You know if it comes from after a certain point in time that's been corrupted by this and and when I asked him to you know to prove that you know, he wasn't able to do so, but that was the the substance of the argumentation and but to actually prove the point to actually prove that these books were Canonical I pointed out that whether he sees or not and given his current comments in the subject he does not.

He's functioning again on the basis of sola ecclesia now. He has said sends them well look I've I made a presentation as a Protestant. I never claimed the authority of the church. But if the authority of the church determines what you can and cannot see in the historical material You're still functioning under the ultimate authority of the church if that is the key epistemological Elements of your worldview you can't say that you somehow are Escaping from it just because you don't quote it as your final authority.

It's still there whether you would recognize that it's there or not and So I I didn't push the glossa ordinaria. I should have I should have asked about it. And I also should have asked in light of his assertion that in Hebrews 11 You have an inspired usage of the Apocrypha.

Which let's say it is a reference to stories in the Apocrypha that doesn't mean it's a citation of his scripture because the fact that we have references to non-inspired Extracanonical books elsewhere in the Bible we have Paul quoting from pagan philosophers.

We have Jude quoting from the assumption of Moses from Enoch and making reference the assumption of Moses which Rome does not accept as Inspired scripture, and so if in point of fact his position is Consistent then he would have to believe those books were canonical as well.

I didn't ask I did not ask that question. I don't know why I didn't ask that question. I made the point very clearly in my rebuttal and in my closing statement, but for some reason it didn't. Didn't end up in cross X and that doesn't mean the cross X wasn't clear because everyone I've talked to who Comment on the debate they all said cross-examination was very clear.

That my opponents really struggled in cross-examination and that that seems to be the case each and every year. I mean, let's look back over the cross-examination last year even with Mitch Pacwa and the the stuff about the heavenly elders look at look at Stravinskas and The the cross-examination there especially on Augustine and things like that goodness.

You know that that's really where it takes place the the debates with Barry Lynn and things like that it was cross-examination that really shows What's going on in in a debate and it did again? I just feel that instead of revisiting some of the areas I did in the second part if I had hit those two it would Have been would have been better for me, but be that as it may I thought it went very well.

Like I said, mr. Machoud was very well prepared. I did not know this but I understand it was the first debate that he's done and so, you know got to give the man kudos is my 53rd public moderated debate and so I think it'll be very useful.

Haven't heard of a a projection as to when that's going to be available as far as mp3s and Thursday Thursday of This week is the projected two days from now. So we'll probably be able to confirm that or deny that on On Thursday when we do two dividing lines in one week.

What a concept is that? Wow, it's up to 102 now. Look at that. It's a wonderful. Ah It's great. So anyway, we had This week for DVDs and mp3s and CDs. Yes. Okay. Well, I just saw Thursday in channel I thought you were getting back to me really really fast.

So I maybe you were referring to somebody else. Okay, anyway So that'll be available. And then like I said Yeah, how do you describe how I got home we went out eight afterwards 225 a .m. I Get dropped off at John F. Kennedy Airport Rich and Warren who did the the videotaping Had a rental cars.

They had to drop it off Rich was Rich was not looking good. Okay the red-eye The red-eye did something to him and he was not looking good, okay, and So they were going to try to their flight was later in the day, but they were going to As rich ever looked at boom That my sounds on I'd play that but anyway So they're gonna on the day of flight You can Up you can change the flight to an earlier flight without cost and so they're gonna try to stand by on my flight so we get there at Excuse me, I do have a cough button, but I just started laughing because I saw rich kick Mike O 'Fallon a channel at that particular point in time Fallon should learn to pick his pick his arguments with someone other than someone who has ops.

But anyway, I Get there at 225 rich and Warren drop off the the car and I'm walking up to the you know We're just gonna sit there basically, you know find a seat and sit there the terminals closed Terminal 7 where our flights come up.

It's closed. So this this Security guy comes out says we don't open again. So 435 something like that and I'm like Really This is guy go terminal 4 or yeah terminal 4. So I got all this all this luggage and the guys got us equipment.

Thankfully I call them single straight there and so I got dragging across the street and you know onto a train and over to terminal 4 and we finally get there all together and Let me tell you something the seats in terminal 4 were designed By they were designed.

They're bad. To put it they're just Specifically designed so you cannot rest there. Or almost it's like how dare you want to rest here is the idea behind it so we sat there and and talked and and didn't really sleep and Finally we get back over to terminal 7 when it opens up we get in line.

We're like we're still a second people in line. Someone got there for us. Don't ask me how and We look over actually rich walked by one of the one of the screens and said our flights canceled and I'm like No, cuz I've got it My son's graduations that night and so I called the 800 number finally get it and they confirmed Yep, it's canceled and I'm not gonna get home today and I'm like you've now they're gonna get home the guys will get home because they have tickets on a later flight that isn't canceled and About 10 minutes later they uncanceled the flight and canceled later one and So we we got on in fact Warren and I Do not even remember takeoff we do not it was it was gone.

And I remember a movie starting but the next thing I knew the movie was already done. And it was at least to our movie so I was gone I was I hope I wasn't snoring too loudly and bothering the people around me.

But I was his a historical novelty at that point and we got back in time and those of you who? Follow the blog saw some of the pictures and congratulations Josh. You know now Get a good job. You know 18 get a good job all right good very good time so anyway, we made it back in time and And all all worked out and rich recovered a few days later.

And after about 22 hours of sleep or something like that he managed to To get get over whatever it was that followed him out to New York. So then I was home over the weekend flew back out on Tuesday, and that's why we didn't have a divining line last week and As I said Wednesday night spoke at North Shore Baptist Church on the the same-sex marriage issue and then Friday night Just last Friday night May 28th.

I Spoke at a place. I've never spoken at before Christian Federation ministries 3065 3rd Avenue Bronx, New York. This is South Bronx, which I was in four miles there is the poorest congressional district in the United States this is the inner city in the Bronx and It's an all-black church from what I could see and I just had a wonderful time there.

We started at 730 and I got done. I'd say about 915 and I could tell that I probably hadn't gone as long as they wanted me to and They passed out Notepads, I mean they literally people go up and down the aisles with notepads in case you hadn't brought anything so you could take notes and They were just so tremendously appreciative that someone had come there and then to address a a Subject like this.

They just ate it up and you know, it's a lot of fun To talk at churches. It's very encouraging to talk at churches when the people Really want to hear what you've got to say. They they just I mean they just ate it up they were so excited about now remember Bronx isn't that far from Brooklyn and What's in Brooklyn?

Bethel headquarters Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. So the deity of Christ is just a tad bit relevant of course to the subject there in that particular area and so I did a PowerPoint presentation the deity of Christ and They just loved it and they were they were tremendously generous to me and just I'll be going back there again no, no two ways about it because I really really enjoyed my time with those folks and and Just pray for them the pastor there has embraced the doctrines of grace and you know that that can cause problems at times and and It's it's just it's just a wonderful Wonderful opportunity to get to go down there.

Then just I feel like saying yesterday because yesterday was Monday and yesterday sort of just went I spoke at the two main Reformed Baptist churches on Long Island Hope Reformed Baptist and Grace Reformed Baptist.

Hope is out in Farmingdale Farmingville not Farmingdale Farmingville. They're two different places about 20 or 30 miles apart and Then at Grace in Merrick. I spoke basically on the Apocrypha on Sunday morning, which is sort of hard to do.

How do you how you do a sermon on the Apocrypha? What do you do starting Tobit or something? And it was that was tough, but then I had a really tough assignment and This topic was assigned to me. The text was assigned to me.

That's not normally how we do it. But that's how we did it this time the folks at Grace Reformed asked that I speak on James 1 2 through 4. Which is consider it all joy my brethren when you encounter various trials knowing that testing your faith produces endurance and let endurance have its perfect work and tell you uh That was a tough one.

It was very tough because I started off the sermon basically saying It's hard to preach on a on a sermon. When you know, you haven't been following the advice you're going to be giving very well yourself.

And part of the reason I've been asked is that the church has been facing some struggles some difficulties for a number of years now and So it was it was hard. It was tough, but the Lord blessed and Had a lot of people come up to me afterwards and comment on How much of a blessing it was for them.

And that it was very well, excuse me very relevant to what they were going through and So it went well and I'll be going back for those of you wondering why in the world would you be going back in only two and a half weeks the reason is that as I mentioned that the primary reason is That I'm going to be speaking at the American Bible Society a thing.

But first I'm speaking at Upton Lake Christian schools graduation on Saturday June 19th and Then on Sunday morning, I'll be out of Grace Gospel Church in Patchogue, Long Island for those of you on the LA it's about exit 63 or so and That'll be on the subject of refuting Islam.

That'll be twice on Sunday morning, June 20th, and then Sunday evening. I'll be north of there in Farmingville again at Hope Reform Baptist Church. What's so new about the New Covenant? That's an important subject I've mentioned before I have written a two-part article for the Reformed Baptist Theological Review.

People are always asking me about they want bibliographies from me. They say, you know, what what can I good get good reading material? I've said this once before. Let me say it again if you want good reading material obviously I'm biased about this, but I'm just letting you know www .r BTR r BTR reform Baptist theological review org Www .rbtr .org it's a subscription it is a scholarly journal and I've written an article.

It's in two parts. The first part will appear in the next issue which comes out in July and then the next issue will come out in January on the New Covenant. And the first half is exegetical, very exegetical in Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 10.

And then the second half I interact with the Greg Strawbridge book that came out last year, A Covenantal Offense of Paedo-Baptism, specifically dealing with Jeff Neal's chapter on the subject of the newness of the New Covenant.

And so that is going to be in the RBTR. Someone just posted that in channel. And I just would highly recommend it. And you can also help to get it off the ground and keep it going by subscribing to it at an early point and then keeping your subscription up.

And so I would highly recommend that to you and hope that will be useful to you. That's what I'll be addressing at the Hope Reformed Baptist Church on the 20th of June. And then real quickly on the 23rd at the Bible Church of Port Washington, I'll be speaking about the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Then Friday and Saturday I'll be speaking at the American Bible Society get-together. Then Sunday, June 27th, I will be speaking at New Hyde Park Baptist Church in New Hyde Park. Pastor Gary there, a good group of folks.

In the morning I'll be speaking on Acts chapter 13, especially verse 48. And in the evening on Mormonism because when we come back I need to report on my trip to the Manhattan LDS Temple. The Manhattan LDS Temple.

We'll be talking about that when we take our break and come back here on The Dividing Line.

The Great Debate, Cross-Examination, and the Canon of Scripture

...soul from death. It's all works righteousness, you know. Can I manufacture grace for self-denial in some religious place by weeping hard on your face or saying prayers?

Under the guise of tolerance, modern culture grants alternative lifestyle status to homosexuality. Even more disturbing, some within the church attempt to revise and distort Christian teaching on this behavior.

In their book, The Same-Sex Controversy, James White and Jeff Neal write for all who want to better understand the Bible's teaching on the subject. Explaining and defending the foundational Bible passages that deal with homosexuality.

Including Genesis, Leviticus, and Romans. Expanding on these scriptures, they refute the revisionist arguments including the claim that Christians today need not adhere to the law. In a straightforward and loving manner, they appeal to those caught up in a homosexual lifestyle to repent and to return to God's plan for his people.

The Same-Sex Controversy, defending and clarifying the Bible's message about homosexuality. Get your copy in the bookstore at AOMin .org. Answering those who claim that only the King James Version is the Word of God.

James White, in his book, The King James Only Controversy, examines allegations that modern translators conspired to corrupt scripture and lead believers away from true Christian faith. In a readable and responsible style, author James White traces the development of Bible translations, old and new.

And investigates the differences between new versions and the authorized version of 1611. You can order your copy of James White's book, The King James Only Controversy, by going to our website at www .AOMin .org.

What is Dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book, Chosen But Free? A New Cult? Secularism? False Prophecy Scenarios? No, Dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent, philosophically insufficient, and morally repugnant. In his book, The Pottish Freedom, James White replies to Dr. Geisler,. But the Pottish Freedom is much more than just a reply.

It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed, it is a defense of the very gospel itself. In a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate, James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called extreme Calvinism.

He defines what the Reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the Reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture. The Pottish Freedom, a defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's Chosen But Free.

You'll find it in the Reformed Theology section of our bookstore at www .AOMin .org.

The Cruise Announcement and the Manhattan LDS Temple Visit

Well, welcome back to Dividing Line. Hey, I was just informed by the powers that be that I need to make a special announcement. In fact, what we should do here, turn my sound up there, Mr. Board Operator something, here we go.

This is how you do an announcement. Now, you know, but you know what's supposed to come right after that? You know how you can tell if you were alive and really kicking in like 1977 or so? Because what comes right after that sound is this sound.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I saw that like 11 times. Okay, you can turn my sounds down now. Anyway, big announcement. The big announcement is that the special early, okay, let me just put it this way.

We have had the special early deposit date that was the 31st of May move to June 30th. In other words, folks can take advantage of our early savings rates up until June 30th. This is for the cruise. And I've had a lot of folks when I was traveling say, man, I'd sure like to go on that cruise.

I just don't know. I just don't know. Well, here's another opportunity because, you know, rates go up the closer you get. They have to by the nature of the fact you're trying to fill up certain space.

And if you wait to the last second, you're not going to get the same deal that somebody got that got into it, you know, six months ago. And so the point is you have another 30 days. And that is not a reason for procrastination.

But it is for those of you who are going, man, if I just had a little while longer, you know, I got this coming in. I can't make it by May 31st. It's just not going to happen. So I give up. If you gave up, don't give up.

Specifically for you folks especially, this is going to be useful to you. So the special sort of early sign-up rate extended through June 30th. Don't push it past then. That's the big voice I've just been doing.

Okay. So keep that in mind. I imagine we'll probably put something up on the website. I haven't given the phone number because I don't know that, to be honest with you, I'm going to get phone calls today.

And so that's why I haven't actually mentioned the phone number because we haven't done the dividing line in quite some time. And hence, we are trying to get caught up. So anyway, Manhattan Temple. I forget who mentioned it to me.

I think it might have been Mike from Utah, New Jersey, which is a very odd combination of places to live, quite honestly. But that may be who mentioned it. Somebody mentioned the URL. And now that I think about it, it was Mike.

And so all of a sudden, I realized, wow, Manhattan Temple. I hadn't even heard about it. So it's going on when I'm going to be in Manhattan. Or I'm going to be in New York anyway. And there's going to be some period of time when I can get in there.

And so I got my tickets. And then Mike changed his so he could come up from New Jersey. And we could run into each other, which we did. We got there a little bit early. They sort of shuffled us through.

And so we weren't in the same group. Which, you know, as I was thinking about it, and I know Mike's on the channel right now, that probably was best because I don't know. So I went through with Chris Arnzen.

And all Chris knows about Mormonism is from the couple of missionaries he talked to many, many, many years ago and what he's heard me say about over the years. And Mormonism is not a big topic on Long Island.

Trust me. Jehovah's Witnesses are the big topic back east. Mormons out west. It's just sort of the way that it is. And so Chris and I went through. And I sort of, as we were going out on the train on Long Island Railroad into Penn Station, and we took a cab.

Oh, Lord. I'm going to tell you something. There are rides. Honestly, there are rides in theme parks that you pay money to get on that are not nearly as exciting or dangerous as taking a cab ride in Manhattan.