June 3, 2019 Show with Dr. James M. Renihan on “The Biblical Nature of Confessionalism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this third day of June 2019.

And I'm thrilled to have a returning guest to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, who has not only become a friend and one of my favorite guests, but he is involved with an organization that is a primary sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And I'm speaking of Dr. James M. Renahan, the president and professor of historical theology at the

IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. Today, Dr. Renahan and I will be addressing the theme,

The Biblical Nature of Confessionalism. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

Jim Renahan. Hi, Chris. Thanks very much. Nice to be here. Oh, it's great to have you back.

And first of all, for our listeners who are hearing you for the very first time on this program, why don't you let them know something about IRBS Theological Seminary?

Sure. We just last week completed our first academic year here in Mansfield, Texas.

We are focusing on training men for the gospel ministry with both a

Master of Divinity and a diploma program that is intended to be a traditionally structured theological program with a great emphasis on internships in churches with the desire that men will be raised up and there will be pastors for our grandchildren.

Praise God. Well, it might be also helpful, believe it or not, there are some people who listen to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio who are not theologically reformed.

In fact, we even have listeners on occasion who are not even Christians. Sometimes we have

Muslim listeners that send in questions and those outside of the Christian faith.

We have Roman Catholic listeners that on occasion chime in with a question. So why don't you explain to our listeners the concept of what a

Reformed Baptist is in summary form. Whenever I think of this,

I chuckle because I remember years ago, many years ago in the 1990s when my friend

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and I know he's a friend of yours as well, he was coming out to Long Island to be involved in a theological debate that I had organized with a

Roman Catholic apologist and a friend of mine who hosted his own radio program, a lot shorter than this one, but he was not

Reformed and really didn't know the buzz phrases and so on of Reformed theology, and he did not know what a

Reformed Baptist was, so it was kind of humorous when he introduced Dr. White with the first question, you say that you're a

Reformed Baptist, what are you now? In other words, he thought that he had reformed out of being a

Baptist. But if you could tell our listeners, what exactly does that mean?

Sure, that's a good little story there, and I can see James' face when he asks that question too.

You know, my short answer to that is, when people ask me that question, I say, you know who

Charles Spurgeon was? Most of the time they say yes, and I say, okay, that's basically what we are.

Because when Spurgeon built the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London, in the cornerstone he had a copy of our

Confession of Faith buried in that cornerstone to make a statement about what the foundation of that church is.

But for people who don't know who Spurgeon was or what Spurgeon stood for, to be a

Reformed Baptist is to say that on the one hand we practice believer's baptism.

We baptize those who make a profession of faith, and we believe that churches are to be and are to consist of those who have made a profession of faith and make that profession clear in their baptism.

The Reformed form ties us particularly to the Protestant Reformation and to the doctrines that were promoted in the

Reformation, in some ways rediscovered by 1

Luther and then Zwingli and Calvin and then brought to England and came to fruition both in places like Germany and Switzerland and the

Netherlands and in England and in Scotland, and we rejoice in that tradition, which itself viewed itself as a recovery of the doctrines of the church.

You know, there's a kind of catholicity in a Reformed faith that confesses all of the foundational doctrines that Christians have always believed, recorded in the

Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the Caledonian Statement, and in the

Reformation Confession. So a Reformed Baptist is a Baptist who holds to a confession of faith, namely the

Second Lenten or 1689 Confession, which reflects the history of Catholic Christianity as well as the doctrinal emphases of the

Reformation. Yes, and of course I know that you want to emphasize that the

Catholic connection is with a small c, nothing to do with an affiliation with Roman Catholicism at all.

In fact, I'm sure that you would agree that soteriologically there is no theological system of faith within Protestantism that is more unlike the

Roman Catholic Church than those who are theologically Reformed or Calvinistic as they have been nicknamed. Yeah, that's an important point to make.

You know, I was watching a church history video that Ligonier Ministries puts out with Dr.

Bob Godfrey, and he was making the point that many of the Reformers would say that the term

Roman Catholic is a contradiction in itself, because Catholic means universal, and Roman means in a particular city.

They have co -opted the word Catholic, but it's a word that we need to recover and use for ourselves with a lowercase c to mean the doctrines that have universally been believed in the

Christian Church. And you're right, in terms of the doctrine of salvation, we have fundamental foundational differences with how

God saves sinners from at least the tridentine, that is, the

Roman Catholic theology that was canonized at the Council of Trent in the 16th century. Yes, we who are theologically

Reformed believe that we, unlike other brothers and sisters in Christ that we have, who may readily disagree with us when

I say this, but I don't think that they could really be logically consistent in agreeing with this statement.

We actually believe that God is to receive 100 percent of the credit and the praise and the honor and the glory for our salvation.

Anything that men do in involving our

Christianity is a response that we give to God by what he has already done on our behalf.

Am I right? Yeah, all that we contribute is our sin. We invoke the wrath of God because we are born as sinners and we live as sinners, and our salvation is

God saving us from his own wrath by sending his son Jesus Christ to live a holy life and die at the death of a sinner hanging upon the cross to satisfy the wrath of God on our behalf.

If he hadn't done that, we would be rightly subject to eternal judgment.

So it's God who sees sinners and sends his son, it's

God who takes sinners who are dead in their trespasses and sends his spirit to them so that by his word they're able to believe and they come to faith in him.

It's all of God's grace from the beginning until the end. Amen. When we believe, when we follow

Christ, when we obey him, and when we repent of our sin, all those things that we do are things that he enables us to do.

Like, for instance, even the faith that we possess is a gift from him, and we can do nothing that is good and pleasing in his sight without him first bringing us the gift of regeneration and giving us the gift of faith and preserving us as we walk on this earth in our journey of faith.

And even though all of us sin daily more numerous times than we can count or care to admit, but he always brings us, if we are truly regenerate, to a state of repentance.

Yeah, that's right. You know, you've heard that phrase, and I'm sure everybody who's listening has heard that phrase,

God helps those who help themselves. Well, that's really a modern version of a medieval doctrine that really influenced the

Roman Church. And it was in Latin, sacericode in se est, meaning to do what is in yourself.

And the Roman Catholic doctrine was, you take a baby step towards God by grace. The grace of baptism allows you to take a step forward, and then

God meets you with that which is necessary to give you salvation.

We deny that. We argue that no one can take even that half step, that baby step towards God.

We're dead in our trespasses, and only the power of God, through his word and spirit, is able to give us life.

Amen. And if anybody would like to hear a more exhaustive and more detailed explanation of Calvinism or Reformed Theology, if you go to the archive of ironsharpensireradio .com,

where it says past programs podcast or past shows podcast, if you type in Calvinism or Reformed Theology, you'll have a number of programs that dedicated their entire two -hour length to an in -depth discussion on this issue.

Now, let me also give our email address. If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. Renahan, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are starting to reconsider some beliefs that you hold to, that perhaps you are being taught at the church where you are a member.

First of all, I would not want you to identify the name of your pastor or your congregation, so even if you don't remain anonymous,

I'll make you anonymous. But things like that, perhaps you're even a pastor and you're starting to reconsider your own denominations position on things we're addressing today.

There could be a number of reasons why you would want to remain anonymous, and we will grant you that request. But if it's just a general question on theology, please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

The theme that you have picked for our discussion is quite fascinating to me, because to many

Christians, even many Baptists, the biblical nature of confessionalism would sound oxymoronic to them, because they think that there is no biblical nature to confessionalism.

They have a wrong idea that we are elevating, just as Rome does, the traditions and thoughts and teachings of men to the same level of authority as the scripture, and obviously even our confession right off the bat says that that is exactly not what those confessions or our confession is intended to do at all.

So let's start even with the word confessionalism. People who are unexperienced with confessional

Protestantism, they may immediately have their minds transported to a little booth with a curtain where somebody confesses their sins to a

Roman Catholic priest. That obviously has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Yeah, that's right.

Tell us, what does that mean, a confessionalism? Yeah, confessionalism, you're right to identify that.

It has nothing to do with the booth and confessing your sins to the priest or anything.

What it is, is it picks up on a word that's very common in both the Old and New Testaments.

Confession means to say the same word. If you took the Greek word that's behind that English word confession and you literally translated it, it would be something to the effect of to say the same word, to say the same thing.

And so it's an attempt to take what the Bible itself says.

For example, in 1 Timothy chapter 6, you have a really good example of this.

Let me look at it for you. Paul is closing down his first epistle to Timothy.

There Paul uses the noun and the verb in the same sentence, and of course he used it many other times.

But he's reminding Timothy of what he did, that words came forth from his mouth, and the words that came forth from his mouth identified him as a follower of Jesus Christ.

What's interesting is when you read the commentaries on this verse here in 1

Timothy 6, many of the commentators, and I think they do this rightly, they're pointing it exactly the right way, point you to Romans 10 .8

.9, which says probably many of your listeners will be able to recite this by heart.

Paul's talking about the gospel. He says, if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is

Lord, and believe in your heart that God is raised from the dead, you will be saved. There Paul says confession is essential to salvation.

That is, there must be an informed understanding of who

Jesus is, what it means to say that Jesus is Lord. You say that with your mouth, and you believe in your heart that God is raised from the dead, and salvation is the result.

Now, it's interesting that, and this is why I think the connection between Romans 10 and 1

Timothy 6 is interesting, many commentators make the point that this is the words that are spoken at baptism.

That is, when Timothy was baptized as a believer, he confessed, he made the good confession that Jesus Christ is

Lord in such a way that everyone around witnessing Timothy's confession would acknowledge these are the words of a true believer.

And when you read the Romans 10 commentaries, they make the point there too that Paul, when he says confess with your mouth,

Jesus is Lord, is thinking of the confession that we make at baptism, that there is the public place where we're able to state to everyone who is present that Jesus Christ is our

Lord. Of course, Paul's not saying that it's baptism that saves us, that's not the point. But that's, in the early church, that's the place where publicly you would speak with your lips,

Jesus is Lord. And so you have this practice of confession embedded in text like 1

Timothy 6 and Romans chapter 10 very clearly. And our point is, when

Christians talk today about confessionalism, that's exactly what they mean. Putting intelligent content into the words that we speak so that they agree with the doctrines of the

Bible. Amen. And perhaps if I missed something here, you can include it in this list, but those confessions that Reformed Christians typically look to as biblically faithful and primary confessions would be the

Westminster Confession of Faith that the Presbyterians adhere to, the

Three Forms of Unity, which would be the Heidelberg Catechism, the

Belgic Confession, and the Canons of Dort, which our Dutch Reformed Brethren would be primarily using as a summary of their statement of faith, of their belief.

The Savoy Declaration, which is a Congregationalist confession of faith. The 39 Articles of Religion, which is a

Reformed Anglican confession of faith. And then, of course, we have the First Baptist and the Second Baptist Confession, or the

First and Second London Baptist Confession of Faith. And the second is the one that primarily

Reformed Baptists worldwide adhere to, and it also has a cousin confession appearing on the scene much more recently in church history, the

Philadelphia Confession of Faith. And there's even a New Hampshire Confession of Faith, which is a more,

I think, reduced confession in the specific aspects of Reformed theology.

But would that be pretty much the major list? Yeah, that would be the major list, and the odds of it would be, if you could somehow take all of those confessions that you just mentioned and overlay them one on top of another, there would be a massive amount of agreement.

There would be differences. Not all of them have exactly the same statements, so the doctrine of the church, for example, would be different between the

Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Congregationalists. The practice of baptism would be different in some of those confessions.

But when you talk about, let's go back to that word we were using before, when you talk about Catholic Christianity, as it was recovered in the

Reformation, there would be complete agreement between all of those confessions. They're all the same.

And so there is a broad unity of the faith that may be seen in all of those different Reformed denominations, and it's demonstrated by means of the way that their confessions of faith express the

Christian doctrine. Yes, I absolutely love to tell some of my

Episcopalian and Anglican friends who are not Reformed that I am more Anglican than they are, because I actually believe more in the

Thirty -Nine Articles of Religion than they do. Yeah, you know J .C. Ryle, of course, we ought to love

J .C. Ryle, because his work is just so pastoral and helpful. But Ryle called his church the

Reformed Church of England because of the doctrine that's contained in the Thirty -Nine Articles, and I think he's right, yeah.

And it's kind of interesting, and I also get a kick out of reminding my Anglican friends this, is that their confession, the

Thirty -Nine Articles, although Anglicans have always baptized infants, the Thirty -Nine Articles just says that we should not forbid children from being baptized, and I always say to them, we don't either, when they repent and believe upon Christ, we baptize children too.

So let me take, before we go to our first break, we do have a listener in Thigh in Ireland, in County Kildare, Ireland, Joe, and he says,

Dear Brother Chris, please greet Professor Renahan for me. We were discussing how he was the originator of the bowtie trend amongst the

Reformed Baptist ministers when he was at a conference on the 1689 Confession at Dundalk Baptist Church over a month ago,

I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, and he says, On a serious note though, I have a question for your guest.

I have observed amongst many fellow Calvinists today a tendency to recoil at adopting the label

Calvinist or even Reformed in some cases. Some don't want to be associated with some aspects of John Calvin's theology that they disagree with, and also refer to the

Apostle Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 1, verses 10 -15, about some following Paul, Cephas, and others, and Apollos.

What is Professor Renahan's take on this? Is there wisdom in using or setting aside such labels?

Yeah, hi, Joe. Joe and I had an opportunity to talk back in April and really enjoyed that.

I think that we have to be careful. We don't want to be sectarian by adopting labels, and in many ways, they don't matter.

Whether someone wants to call himself a Calvinist or not is irrelevant. Let's give each other liberty to receive or not receive the name.

Thankfully, there's no denomination of Calvinist in the way that there are with the Lutherans.

That's not meant to be a stone thrown at the Lutherans. I don't mean that. But, you know, there isn't a

Calvinist Church of the Netherlands or Calvinist Church of America. So for some people, there is a benefit to using the label.

They look positively at what may come. For others, there are liabilities.

Sometimes it's personal preference. Sometimes it's because of the place where you live or the church climate where you are.

If, for example, you're in a place where Calvinism has always had a bad name, simply because of prejudice and because people have misrepresented or misunderstood what it's about, then don't use the label, because it can be harmful.

In other places, it may be a very positive thing to use. You know, in a sense, it's like the question that people go through these days.

When you go to name a church, should you include Baptist or Presbyterian or Methodist in your church title?

And some say yes, and some say no, and I say, use the wisdom of God to help you to understand and do what's right.

Yeah, in fact, you no doubt know who Amrish Simarath is, and he has a church where he pastors in Trinidad.

I'm assuming he's still pastoring. And they specifically did not call their congregation a

Baptist church, because in Trinidad, there are many animist groups and other heretical sects that call themselves

Baptist. Yeah, that's a good example. You may not want to use it.

So if somebody wants to use the word Reformed, or they want to use the word Calvinist, or they don't, let's give each other liberty to do so, but not throw stones at each other.

Right. One thing that I have warned a couple of my friends about, though,

I have a couple of friends, at least a couple, who agree with me nearly identically on theology.

And if someone asks them, are you a Calvinist, they will say no, my teachings are from the

Bible. And I have told them, I believe that that is an incorrect response, because you might be labeled as a liar if you say something like that.

I think it's best just to say, well, I have a lot in common with those brothers in Christ who call themselves

Calvinist, but I prefer not to use that label, because I attribute what I believe to God, not to any man.

I think, and I told him, and them, I should say, that that is a far more honest way of answering that question.

Would you agree with that? Yeah, I guess

I'd want to think about it a little bit before I answered the question to somebody that way myself, but I see your point.

Yeah, because if you say, I'm not a Calvinist, and then somebody finds out, wait a minute, this guy believes in unconditional election, he believes in limited atonement, he's lying to me.

You know, that's what I'm really referring to, is that we have to be careful not to be making some kind of claim.

Then upon further investigation, somebody is looking at your, perhaps a church bulletin that you have where you list out primary doctrines, and they are identical with what would be historically labeled

Calvinism or Reformed theology. Yeah, and the other side of that argument is, too, that almost every cult, you know, sort of pseudo -Christian cult, let me put it that way, that has existed in the history of the

Church has claimed the Bible as its guide. Right. You know, to say, I just believe in the

Bible, and I don't believe in the Bible, well, you could be a Jehovah's Witness and say that. So you have to be careful when you make that kind of claim, because you open yourself up to almost anything.

Yeah, in fact, I jokingly said to a friend of mine who is theologically a believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace, as they are nicknamed, and he said,

I prefer to call myself a Biblicist. And I said, that's interesting. When you preach from your pulpit, do you wear

T -shirts and shorts and sneakers, and do you have rock music playing in the worship service?

And he said, absolutely not. I said, well, a Calvary Chapel pastor just told me he was not a

Calvinist, but he was a Biblicist. So no matter what kind of label you choose to use, it can be a confusing label to those who are hearing you identify yourself or describe yourself.

Yeah, that's right. Well, we're going to our first advertisement right now, or station break,

I should say. If anybody would like to join us on the air, as I said before, with a question for Dr.

Jim Renahan on Reform Theology, or specifically Confessionalism, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

And as always, please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Don't go away.

We will be right back with Dr. Jim Renahan and our discussion on Confessionalism. Hello, my name is

James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRVS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

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If anybody would like to join us on the air, we are discussing the biblical nature of confessionalism with Dr. Jim Renahan today.

And our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And Dr. Renahan, now if you could explain what exactly you mean by the biblical nature of confessionalism.

Yeah, okay. That's a good question that I have a two -hour answer for you.

I actually, I teach a course that's called Present Confessions in Scripture and Church History.

It's been videotaped and is available on our website, I think for, well,

I don't know how much it is. I think it's $50, but I could be wrong, for 13, approximately 25 -minute sessions that deal with this.

And so, jokingly, I say it would take me two hours, but actually I could fill two hours with the argument.

Let me try to summarize it for you. I would argue that when

Paul says in Romans 12, 1 and 2, that we are to present ourselves as living sacrifices, and he speaks of the renewing of our minds, that's a very important concept to consider.

True Christianity is a thinking Christianity. It reflects on what the

Bible teaches. It puts together doctrines. It takes passages from all over Scripture and synthesizes them and recognizes that the

Bible has a body of doctrine, a system of truth. Paul uses a variety of words to describe it.

In the pastoral epistles, for example, he speaks of sound words, healthy words, wholesome doctrines.

In Romans 6, he talks about the traditions to which you have been delivered, and he doesn't mean what the pharisees and pharisees meant by tradition, but he means the authoritative teaching of Scripture as that is collated.

So I start my lectures with Romans 12 and argue that it's important for us with the renewing of our minds.

Then I try to show how all the way back in the Old Testament and then developing on into the

New Testament, there is a summary of doctrine that is essential.

It begins with Deuteronomy chapter 6, what the Jewish people call the

Shema. Simply, Shema is the Hebrew word for listen or hear. Hear O Israel, the

Lord our God, the Lord is one, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and strength and mind.

That doctrine that God is one was fundamental to the believing

Jewish identity. It was the central, the core doctrine for them.

You know, they lived in a world of both polytheism, where there are multiple gods to worship, and henotheism, where still there are multiple gods to worship, but there is one

God who is greater than all the rest, and that he is to be worshipped. That was the Canaanite system. In contrast to those two false systems of religion, there was the monotheism of Israel.

Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And when the Jewish people committed themselves to that central truth, the blessing of God was upon them.

When they allowed polytheism into their thoughts, when they began to bow down before the gods of the mountains or the hills or the valleys or the rivers or the lakes or the sea or the sun and the moon, whatever, then the curses of God came upon them because they departed from the one true living

God. That thread is present throughout the Old Testament, and it's even present in Jewish history outside of the scriptures.

That is, history of the Jewish people recorded for us in other places. The historian

Josephus says, I don't remember the quote exactly, but something to the effect of, among all the

Jews, it is acknowledged that there is but one God. So you have that statement, that was the first memory for us that a little

Jewish girl would learn. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. That becomes the central creed of Judaism.

Now when you come to the New Testament, that's the, likewise, the same foundation.

And you find, for example, the scribe who comes to Jesus and says, what is the first and great commandment?

Well, how does our Lord answer? He quotes Deuteronomy 6 .8. When Paul writes in 1

Corinthians chapter 8, he says, for us there is one God. And in fact, regularly the

Apostle Paul picks up on that theme and acknowledges the fact that there is one God. But Paul doesn't stop there, because Paul builds upon the truth that there is one

God by introducing something we've already mentioned this afternoon, and that is the central

Christian confession, Jesus is Lord. And by saying Jesus is

Lord, we're saying two things. When we use the word Jesus, we're speaking to his humanity.

When we use the word Lord, we're speaking to his deity. And we're confessing that this one is truly human and truly divine.

Now you have a doctrine that says there is one God, and yet you have this worship that's being devoted to someone who is truly human.

And at the same time, truly divine, truly deity. Everything that may be said about deity may be said about him.

Now all of a sudden, you're confronted with what might on the surface, or to an unthinking mind, seem to be a tension.

How can you say that there is one God, when now you're saying that Jesus is both

God and man? How do those work together? Then I would argue that in the rest of the

New Testament, you find that there are other doctrines that are being added to the

Christian confession. And a lot of New Testament scholars have pointed out that there are various places in the

New Testament where we seem to have excerpts from what were probably confessions that were recited at the early church.

1 Corinthians 15, which speaks to us about the death, burial, resurrection of our

Lord Jesus Christ. Or 1 Timothy 3 .16, which literally translated says,

It's not simply great, it's the mystery of godliness. And it speaks to us in six lines about Christ's descent from heaven and then ascension back into heaven, all centering around his death and resurrection.

So that in the New Testament, the fundamental Jewish creed is repeated, but it is expanded for us.

And it's expanded through who our Lord Jesus is as God and as man, and what he does by living, dying, being buried, raising, and ascending into heaven.

And one more, coming again. So now you have essential elements of a

Christian confession. But then there's more. Because we don't believe in a dual

God, we believe in a triune God. The place of the

Holy Spirit in relationship to the Father, the first person, and the

Son, the second person, must be defined. Because there are, granted not a lot, but still some places in the

New Testament which speak to the deity of the Holy Spirit. Now, people have come to that issue over the years, and they've offered different solutions.

But I would argue that in Matthew 28 or in 2 Corinthians 13, the work of the

Spirit, the person of the Spirit, is worshipped alongside of the

Father and the Son. Not a modalistic manifestation of God, but rather a person.

Now you have three persons and one God, and we have to work that out.

So I would argue that the New Testament itself is a demonstration of the importance of building upon that singular creed of the

Old Testament and expanding it in the light of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have John in Bangor, Maine, who has a question. And John says,

Would you agree that those that are vehemently anti -confessional are not really being consistent with their own rhetoric unless their pastors merely get up to the pulpit and read the

Bible rather than exegeting it? And anytime you explain the

Bible, you are really doing something more in alignment with confessionalism rather than some kind of a mutation of sola scriptura.

Well, John, you know, it's funny because that's exactly what I had in mind when

Chris was talking before about his friend who says he's a Biblicist. It was exactly that.

Because we were heading up to a break, I didn't want to take up more of time, but that's precisely what

I would have said. Ask your friend when he stands in the pulpit if all he does is read Scripture or if he goes beyond reading

Scripture and proclaims that Scripture in his own words. If he does that, then he's not a

Biblicist at that point, and maybe that would help him. So John was thinking exactly the way

I was thinking. That's very encouraging to me. Praise God. And my friend John Thornberry, the brilliant church historian,

I remember years ago, back in the, I think it was the late 1980s, I saw him at a conference where he was defending confessionalism, and he said he was responding to an article in the

American Baptist Association magazine, the denomination to which

John once belonged before he had to withdraw because of their liberalism.

But there was an article in the magazine that said that we as Baptists do not believe in creeds and confessions, we only believe in the

Word of God, and John wrote a rebuttal to that saying, that is a confessional statement. Yes, that's right.

Yeah, yes, it's interesting. Go to a church that makes that claim, okay?

There are a lot of churches that will say that. We just believe the Bible, the Bible is our doctrine. Go into that church and start a conversation that maybe leads in a different direction to what the doctrine of that church is all about.

You'll find that very quickly, there's an unwritten confession of faith in that church. Yeah. But, you know, let's just say that it's a

Baptistic church, okay, that says only the Bible. If a good

Presbyterian who believes that the Bible teaches infant baptism goes in there and begins to try to promote the doctrine of infant baptism, first off, it wouldn't be right for him to do so.

But if that were to come up, even in discussion, all of a sudden the unwritten definition of believer's baptism would come into play from the people in that congregation.

Every church has a confession. It's just, in some it's unwritten, in others it's public, it's available to see and read and inspect.

Yeah, and every church has a confession that's either biblical or unbiblical or good or bad or a combination of good and bad.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's see here, we have

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who asks, historically, would the predominant number of Baptists throughout history be confessional or non -confessional?

Yeah, that's a good question, Arnie. Let's just, without wanting to raise a big discussion, let's just talk about the modern

Baptists from the 17th century onward. In England and in America, there were two strands, the general

Baptists who are Arminian and particular Baptists who are Calvinists. Both of them had their doctrines or their confessions of faith that they published.

In the 17th and 18th century here in America, that same practice was picked up.

Chris, you mentioned the Philadelphia Confession. It was reprinted in Charleston, South Carolina as the

Charleston Confession, in Warren, Rhode Island as the Warren, Rhode Island Confession.

I would say that into the 19th century, confessionalism was the dominant view of the

Baptists in America. There's an interesting book that was published about two years ago by Brandon Smith and Kirk Smith on the early history of the

Georgia Baptists, and it's a really fine indication of the confessionalism of the early

Georgia Baptists. Yeah, in fact, I interviewed both of those brothers. Okay, yeah. Well, when you get to the 19th century and American society is turning towards a more sort of rugged individualism as the nation expands to the

West, that's when churches tended to move away from confessionalism.

So I would say up until maybe the middle, maybe the first third or even the middle of the 19th century, confessionalism predominantly mocks

Baptists. From that time until at least three -quarters of the way through the 20th century, it's anti -confessional in Baptist history, and now there's an attempt to recover that.

A somewhat humorous occurrence just popped into my head. I remember years ago,

I was in attendance at a Bible conference being hosted by a Church of Christ congregation, and the speaker said the

Churches of Christ historically have not been a church that have used creeds and confessions.

We believe the Bible to be our only creed and confession. I raised my hand, and I said, just out of curiosity,

I'm looking at a tract that I found in the lobby of your church, in the tract rack, and it said we are the

Churches of Christ. Our ministers do not wear clerical robes or different types of clothing other than the average man.

We wear business suits and so on, and we believe in baptism by immersion only, by a repentant believer for the forgiveness of sins.

We only believe in an exclusively male headship in the church, and we do not use musical instruments.

The list went on and on, and I said, you know, this is your confession of faith. That's right. That's exactly right.

So it's ironic that people would make those claims when they clearly violate the claim.

But we have to go to our midway break. This is a break that is longer than our normal breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show, because they—well, we air our own commercials, which are heard globally.

Grace Life Radio airs local commercials and public service announcements to the Lake City, Florida area, because they, according to FCC regulations, they have to localize their programming to their local area.

So while they air their commercials, we are airing ours, and it's a longer break. So please use this time wisely.

Please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, because as I said earlier, we depend on the advertising dollars from our sponsors in order to exist, and they are more likely going to remain our advertisers if you patronize them.

So please write down this information, and also write down questions for our guest, Dr. Jim Renahan, at chrisarnson at gmail .com—chrisarnson

at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Jim Renahan right after this station break. God bless. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

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Thank you. Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round

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Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives. Did you know that all believers are priests?

In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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.nyc. Have a great day. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpman's Iron Radio.

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Before I return to Dr. Renahan on our discussion on the biblical nature of confessionalism, I just have a couple of special announcements to make regarding events that I hope that you all can attend.

This December, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, I am heading back to my old stomping grounds in Manhattan to attend the

Foundations Conference, which is a conference hosted by sermonaudio .com.

And this is going to be a phenomenal conference, I'm sure, judging from the roster of speakers they have lined up.

Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, whose voice you have been hearing every day, promoting

New Covenant Church NYC, a church that sponsors Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Dr.

Lawson is one of the finest preachers alive today, and he is the founder of One Passion Ministries. Paul Washer, also an extraordinary preacher on the roster at this conference.

My friend, Reverend Jeff Thomas. Everybody who is a

Reformed Baptist, at least I am very confident that everybody who is a Reformed Baptist listening is fully aware of this dear brother, recently retired from the pastoral ministry at Alfred Place Baptist Church in Everest with Wales, now an itinerant evangelist.

He is an author and a really extraordinary preacher as well. In fact, he is my guest this Friday, God willing,

June 7th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern, here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. He is going to be discussing the

Ministry of Encouragement. That is Reverend Jeff Thomas' subject this Friday.

My friend Armin Tamasian. He is a really profound and powerful preacher.

He is a young man, a young pastor, but with gifts and abilities and wisdom far beyond his youth.

I believe he is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade. Richard Caldwell Jr.

and Andrew Quigley are also on the lineup. I do not know these brethren and I have never heard them preach, but since Sermon Audio selected them,

I am very confident they are also magnificent preachers and teachers of God's Word.

If you want to attend this conference, once again, I said it is Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th.

Go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com,

and all the information that you need will be there. Then, the month after that, January of 2020,

I am going to be packing up my bags again and heading out to Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically

College Park, Georgia, to the Georgia International Convention Center for the 2020

G3 Conference. G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. They always have an absolutely extraordinary lineup of speakers.

This is going to be held Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th. The speakers include

Kosti Hinn, a very extraordinary speaker and brother.

He, believe it or not, is the nephew of the notorious charlatan Benny Hinn.

Kosti has renounced the Word of Faith heresies that he was raised in. He is not only a

Reformed Baptist today, but he's a Reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist. He is going to be speaking on this lineup.

David Miller, who is among the dying breed of old -style fire -and -brimstone preachers, but with excellent biblical theological content, a really remarkable man.

I always love hearing David Miller preach and teach. Somebody who's also a very recognizable name amongst

Reformed Christians, Derek Thomas is on the lineup. Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, my longtime friend since the 1990s, a mutual friend of my guest,

Dr. Jim Renahan. He is on the roster. Joel Beakey, another friend of mine since the 1990s.

He is president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary. Josh Bice, who is the founder of the

G3 Conference. Again, we have Dr. Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer on the roster at this conference.

My friend, Dr. Tom Askell, who is the executive director of Founders Ministry, the Calvinistic ministry within the

Southern Baptist Convention. And Votie Balcom, another man. If you haven't heard Votie preach, you've got to hear him preach.

What a remarkable man of God he is. If you are interested in registering for this conference, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. Click on the G3 Conference 2020 and you will have all the information that you need.

And I would strongly urge you that if you have a parachurch organization or a business or some other organization that you want to promote,

I would register for an exhibitor's booth, just like I will be manning, because they are expecting, as they do every year, over 5 ,000 people in attendance.

So that is an ideal place to have an exhibitor's booth. Go to g3conference .com, register to attend, and also register for an exhibitor's booth while they still have room.

Please always tell any advertiser of ours that you heard about them from Chris Arnsen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Never do that and never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Those two things are commands of God in the holy scriptures.

Supporting my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money to use for benevolent purposes, please, if you love the show and you don't want us to go away, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click support, then click, click to donate now. If you want to advertise with us, we could surely use your advertising dollars.

So send me an email to chrisarns in a gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. As long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as well.

And also, if you are not a member of a local bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

If you need help finding a good, solid church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I've already helped quite a number of people listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all parts of the world find churches near them, whether they need a church to join and become a member or even if they're vacationing somewhere, people have asked for recommendations.

Send me an email to chrisarns in a gmail .com and put something like, I need a church home or I need a church while I'm on vacation, whatever it is that you want to put in that subject line that accurately describes your situation.

I'd love to help you find a church and God willing, I will be able to do so. And by the way, that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest,

Dr. Jim Renahan on the biblical nature of confessionalism. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

USA. We got two emails providentially, both from North Carolina.

And what makes it very interesting is that one of these emails is from Sterling Vanderwerker, a very faithful listener to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, who is going to be a new advertiser with us.

Stay tuned to hear commercials for his jewelry business,

Diadem Jewelers in Greensboro, North Carolina. But it's interesting, I was having a conversation with him earlier today and he mentioned, oh,

I hear a person named Grady Adams who contacts you very frequently and he lives in Asheboro, North Carolina, and that's very close to Greensboro.

So tell Grady about Diadem Jewelers. So now I have both of them providentially submitting questions to our guest,

Jim Renahan, which is interesting. And let me give a plug to Diadem Jewelers.

Their website is royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com.

But let me read Sterling Vanderwerker's question for our guest today.

He says, at Shepard's Fellowship of Greensboro, we talked through each segment of the

First London Baptist Confession and its history. What, if any, effect did the work in England of our historic

Anglican and Presbyterian brothers have on the Second London Confession of Faith?

Dr. Renahan? Yeah, by the way, you know,

First Samuel 2525 says, as his name is, so is he. It seems to me appropriate that someone named

Sterling would be in the jewelry business. I said that the moment I first became aware of him.

Yeah, that's really good. I like that. Would you read that question again?

He says, at Shepard's Fellowship of Greensboro, we taught through each segment of the

First London Baptist Confession and its history. What, if any, effect did the work in England of our historic

Anglican and Presbyterian brothers have on the Second London Confession of Faith?

Yeah, okay. About the same as the First. Both of them are based on pedo -baptist confessions.

First London is based on the 1596 true confession from the Netherlands, probably written by Henry Ainsworth, who was a separatist in exile, and there was a congregational septicist church of Brits that was over there in the

Netherlands. It also reflects quite a bit of material from William Ames' The Marrow of Theology.

Ames was a very important Puritan theologian who was one of the secretaries of the

Synod of Dort. So you have that pedo -baptist background in First London. Second London incorporates a lot of the material from First London, but of course its structure is based on the

Westminster Confession of Faith. What I like to call the grandparent, and then the

Savoy Declaration of the Congregational 1658 as the immediate parent.

There's a really close family relationship between the two Baptist confessions. They both use the same methodology.

They incorporate the best kind of... Let me go back to that word you used earlier, Catholic doctrine from both.

I'm actually working on a project to demonstrate something of the commonalities between First London and Second London.

It's far off in the distance for completion. I have a couple of chapters done, but other things are pushed to the back right now.

But last year at the Evangelical Theological Society meeting in Denver, I made a presentation on the relationship between the two confessions and some of the doctrines that are in First London.

So it's an area of interest that I have. Before I actually repeat the question, I want to make sure that I understood it correctly.

I hope that that answers the brother's question. Amen. And to further clarify, lest anyone think that the framers of the

Second London Baptist Confession were plagiarizing the Westminster, this was done intentionally. Was it not to show much camaraderie between the

Baptists and the Presbyterians to further reveal to our

Presbyterian brothers that this was not some kind of bizarre cult that we had a lot in common with them? Am I somewhere in the right neighborhood there on that?

In the neighborhood, at least. Let me put it this way. They make a statement that the doctrine of the

Second London is the same as the First London. And there were several men who were involved in both confessions.

The same churches in London were involved in them. First London doesn't really tell you up front its documentary background.

You have to know that. I don't think that they were plagiarizing, for sure.

But they don't tell you straight out that they're using pedo -baptist documents. Where Second London, in the official epistle to the judicious and impartial reader, makes the statement that they saw no defect in the structure of Tavoy and Westminster, and so they decided to use it.

So it's a little bit clearer, intentionally clearer in Second London that they're relying on the documents of others.

Like I said, I'm sure the editors of First London were not intentionally plagiarizing.

And those who were familiar with the theological literature of the day would have immediately recognized the family history of First London.

But yeah, you're right, in that letter. And you know, it's kind of a bummer that many editions of Second London don't include the epistle at the beginning.

The one that Mike Gadosh published a few years ago, the Baptist Confession of Faith and the

Baptist Catechism, which I helped him with, that does have the epistle and it also has the appendix at the end.

It's a really nice edition. I don't get to make any profit from it. It's available in leather, too.

Yeah, it is. I've got a nice soft -sided leather one that Mike sent to me. It's in my hand right now. But I would recommend to people that they get hold of that because it has the entirety.

The other thing that... Now, this one I would profit from. So, you know, let's be upfront. About two years ago,

I published a book called Faith and Life for Baptists. And it's a compilation of all of the documents that are related to the

General Assemblies that were held in London from 1689 through 1693 and 4.

And it would include the Confession with the epistle and the appendix and the

Baptist Catechism and a whole lot of other material as well that's available from Amazon on Kindle or in paperback format.

Great. And by the way, thank you again, Sterling, for submitting the excellent question.

And I just want to remind our listeners about his website since he is going to be heard as a regular advertiser coming soon on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

It's royaldiadem .com. That's the website for diadem jewelers. royaldiadem,

D -I -A -D -E -M dot com. And the aforementioned

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina also has a question. And Grady says,

Great show, Chris. Dr. Renahan, since you said that the confessions that Chris mentioned earlier could be laid on top of one another, and would agree on most things,

I take it you're talking about the basic tenets of our faith. Is this correct? Yes, that's exactly right.

That's why we're using the word Catholic with the lowercase c before all of the doctrines that are common to historic

Orthodox Christianity, and I don't mean Greek Orthodox, I mean right -thinking, proper -believing

Christians. All of those doctrines are what are held in common. Now, I don't know if you would agree with this distinction, but I've heard that creeds tend to be documents that contain things universally held to by all

Christians. They would not include things like the differences on election, predestination, and so on.

And a confession is a more detailed statement that would have more information about what a particular church or fellowship believes about baptism and other issues, perhaps even eschatology.

Like, for instance, the Apostles' Creed, interestingly enough, although it has many of the major tenets that all

Christians must believe, it really says very little, if anything, about the gospel. I mean, obviously, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ is of primary concern in the gospel, but it doesn't really talk about anything that would distinguish even

Roman Catholicism from Calvinism, for instance. Yeah, I think it's a little bit artificial to try to distinguish between a creed and a confession.

A creed tends to be briefer, a confession tends to be longer, and one way that I have found helpful to distinguish between them, if I have to, and this is not original to me,

I don't know where I heard it, but somebody else deserves credit for this. I heard it or read it that a creed teaches us what a

Christian must believe, and a confession teaches us what a Christian ought to believe. I think that that's a very helpful distinction.

Yeah, yeah, in fact, I think that that very much echoes somewhat what

I just said earlier, and so therefore, that's why the confessions were needed, because something like the

Apostles' Creed, just as wonderful as it is, it's just in some ways inadequate.

Would you agree? Yeah, you know, that's an interesting question, and in that video series that I talked about before, you know, creeds and confessions in Scripture and in Church history, and when

I get to the Church history part, I argue that it is the appearance, especially of error, that requires from Christians a clear statement of what we mean, for example, when we say that Christ is truly

God and truly man, or when we say that God is one and yet God is three, and it was those kinds of controversies that led to the development of confessions, and of course, after the

Reformation, when Rome, or the apologists for Rome, would say, where was your church before Luther?

Confessionalism was a means to respond to that by saying, we believe what the ancient

Church believed, and here's what the ancient Church believed in more detail, so that the doctrine of salvation that you mentioned before, soteriology, was an attempt on the part of the

Reformers, the post -Reformation theologians, the English Puritans, our doctrine of salvation is the same as the doctrine of salvation in the early

Church. You know, a good example of that is in John Owen's work on the Holy Spirit.

There's a long chapter on regeneration, the experience of conversion, and what he does there is basically use

Augustine's confession as the pattern. He cites it frequently.

It's a long chapter, and Augustine is the star of that chapter. Now, on the one hand, when you read it, that, you know, the surface text is,

Augustine is a good example to us of what genuine conversion is all about, but there's a subtext there that Owen is using, and the subtext is,

Augustine belongs to us, not to you Roman Catholics who have a different doctrine of conversion. Right. He's making that point.

He's drawing Augustine into English Puritanism and saying, he's one with us on this point, and you guys who differ from us need to recognize that fact.

So the confessions were an attempt, after the Reformation, to respond to that charge that they frequently heard, where was your church before Luther?

And explain that in terms of historic Christian doctrine stated in the various confessions of faith.

We have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who said you mentioned earlier a book written by your guest,

True Love, Understanding the Real Meaning of Christian Love. Can you have your guest describe it in more detail?

Sure. They're giving it away. It's a brief, probably 150 pages.

I don't think I have one at hand. It's a brief exposition of 1 Corinthians 13, seeking to help

Christians understand what Paul intends when he tells us about love.

And Chris, I think several years ago, you and I did a Iron Chop and Zion about that book. Yes, we did.

Yeah. And so people can go to ironchopandzionradio .com and go to the archive where it says

Past Shows Podcast. And if you type in Renahan, R -E -N -I -H -A -N, that should come up, among other interviews we've done with Dr.

Renahan. And also let me read Michael Horton's commendation for the book that's right on the back cover.

The part that most people seem to like about Christianity is love, yet love is gravely misunderstood in our culture, apart from the wider scope of God's character commands and saving work in Christ.

James Renahan deserves our gratitude because he neither sentimentalizes nor intellectualizes love.

Here is a rich, vivid, and concrete exploration of this fantastic subject.

Sorry for the stilted reading here, but I'm going blind. And the typeface, that's an exaggeration, brother.

The typeface is very small on the back cover. So it was kind of hard for me to read. But once again, you'll get that for free with any purchase from cvbbs .com.

And just mention in the comment section that you want the free copy of True Love by James M.

Renahan. I want to talk about books. Can I just mention one that I think all of your listeners should get and read?

Absolutely. The Credo Imperative by Carl Truman. Great. It's a really first -rate book.

He tries to answer the question, what if no creed but the Bible is unbiblical? And I think he does so wonderfully, very helpfully.

And so I would urge all of your listeners to go to cvbbs .com and buy

The Credo Imperative, or go to Solid Ground Books and buy The Credo Imperative. They will be greatly helped.

Carl Truman, The Credo Imperative. Well, now I know what to have Carl speak on the next time he comes back.

Iron sharpens iron. Yeah, I always love having him as a guest. We are going to our final break right now.

It's much more brief than the last break. So if you have a question, I would send it in now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Once again, that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jim Renahan right after these messages. Tired of box store

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.nyc. Have a great day. Hello, my name is

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We are now back with Dr. Jim Renahan of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas, and we are talking about the biblical nature of confessionalism, and if you have a question, do it, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnsin at gmail .com Dr. Renahan, I want you to make sure that you summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about the biblical nature of confessionalism before we run out of time today.

Yeah, thank you, Chris. I would say that it's important for Christians to be committed to a confession of faith because they need to renew their lives as they present their bodies a living sacrifice.

We need to think through texts in the New Testament that speak of the importance of confessing our faith, and that's not simply reciting

Bible verses, but it's pulling together the doctrine that is taught in those Bible verses and confessing it.

I have mentioned a couple of times that I have a video series that's available. If anyone is interested, they can go to irbsseminary .org,

and that's irbsseminary .org slash resources, and find on that page the different video series that we have available, including this one,

Creeds and Confessions in Scripture and Church History. I really would suggest reading that book by Dr.

Truman that I mentioned before, The Credal Imperative, and thinking very carefully about some of the comments that have been made today.

Everybody has a confession of faith, whether it's public or private, personal. It's better to have one that's public.

It's better to have one that could be recognized by Christians from every era of the history of the

Church, and not something that's idiosyncratic or subject to chronological snobbery, thinking that what we know and do today is better than what anyone else has ever thought.

So I hope that people are encouraged. I hope they'll be strengthened, and I hope that they'll think carefully through the issue of confessionalism.

Amen. We have BB in Carmelin County, Pennsylvania, who says,

Don't you think it is important that confessionalist Christians, when they are evangelizing the lost, that they do not appeal to a confession in the way that they would appeal to the

Bible and confuse people, thinking that there is some extra biblical text where we get the authority of our beliefs from.

I understand that in a congregation or denomination or fellowship, where people within that group are straying from the truths that were once agreed upon and held in high esteem, a confession is something that would immediately be referred to to correct those in error.

But when we are evangelizing the lost, isn't there a different approach that we need to take? Well, you're right.

The approach that we ought to take is to bring them to Scripture because it's the Word of God with the blessing of the

Holy Spirit that brings any individual to life. And it's very important for us to focus our attention upon the

Word. The Word of God will show them their sin. The Word of God, with the blessing of the

Holy Spirit, will help them to see their need of Christ, and it will cause them to believe. I agree.

The Scripture must be first. That's one of the reasons that we, it's important to say this, we call our confessions subordinate standards.

If the Bible is always first, the Bible stands above every other document. And before we go off the air,

I know that you have something that you're conducting, I believe, on the website of IRBS Seminary.

It's called Christian... It's Dr. James Renahan Live with Listeners Pass, August 22nd through the 23rd.

If you could tell our listeners about that. Yeah, that's a course that I'll be teaching. There'll be 13 hours of lecture over two days.

It's preaching the Psalms in a Christian congregation, and it will be, it's a four -credit course here.

I mean, four, F -O -R, but it's a one -credit hour course that's for our students, but we're going to make it available online.

For anyone who'd like to listen, it's a survey through the Book of Psalms and an attempt to encourage pastors to preach them to their people.

So this will be live -streamed? Yes, it'll be live -streamed, yeah. Great, and that's irbsseminary .org,

irbsseminary .org, and as your ad says, two S's in the middle because very often people leave out a letter if they are back -to -back in a website.

Yeah. Well, it has been such a joy having you on the program again, Dr. Renahan. I look forward to your return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio in the near future and often, and I also look forward to interviewing as many of your faculty as desire to be on the program.

Please make sure you spread the word to your faculty at IRBS Seminary, and I want to once again thank our listeners, especially those that took the time to write in questions today, and I want to remind you that this coming

Friday, June 7th, we have Jeff Thomas returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio discussing the

Ministry of Encouragement. Of course, we are on every day, Monday through Friday, but I just thought

I'd highlight Jeff Thomas since most Reformed Baptists know exactly who he is. I hope that you all have a safe and blessed evening, and I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. Don't forget about Dr.

Renahan's book, True Love, understanding the real meaning of Christian love, available at CVBBS .com,

CVBBS .com, available absolutely free if you purchase anything for any amount that will be shipped to you along with your order.