Episode 415: How the Gospel Reshapes Sibling Conflict Resolution | Lynna Sutherland Interview

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Just that idea that instead of saying, you're not the boss of me, I don't have to do what you say, and I'm just going to whistle and pretend like I didn't hear you, one way to communicate,

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I do care about you, I care about what's important to you, is to stop and talk. Welcome to Truth.

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Love. Parents. Where we use God's Word to become intentional, premeditated parents.

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Here's your host, AM Brewster. Hey, friends. I'm glad you're here for today's special guest interview.

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Before we start, though, I want to clarify something. Our special guest has an amazing offer for everyone listening.

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There are no contests or special requirements to receive today's resource. However, the offer is only available until the end of January 2021.

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Now, though the offer may be expiring soon, the discussion we're about to have is eternally relevant, so I hope you all enjoy.

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Welcome to Truth. Love. Parents. I'm your host, AM Brewster. And in the upcoming month,

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I want to introduce you to some of my favorite parenting podcasts. We have a page at TruthLoveParent .com

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dedicated entirely to the best podcasts for Christian parents. And if you've ever checked that list out, then you've seen

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Linna Sutherland's podcast, The Sibling Relationship Lab. Well, today I have Linna here with us on the show, and I'm very much looking forward to you meeting her and connecting with her various ministries and interacting with her many resources.

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I'm also looking forward to each one of you enjoying the gift Linna has for you today, but we're going to talk more about that more in a minute.

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I found The Sibling Relationship Lab a while back when I was desperately searching for some gospel -centered, biblically -based parenting podcasts.

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Although The Sibling Relationship Lab has been live since April of 2019, I only found it in 2020, and I went back and I consumed every episode, which is not something that I always do.

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In fact, it's very rare when I start listening to a podcast that I'll go back and I'll listen to every single episode, but I was so hooked,

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I wanted to do it. I found Linna's content to be supremely practical to anyone with more than one child, but often also to parents with only one child.

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However, most importantly, though, I found that her content is very biblical, and really, that's the key.

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Linna and I can have our opinions and they can fail you over and over, but God's eternal truth will never fail you, and I love introducing you to people and resources that will submerge you in the

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Scriptures. So, without any more pontificating on my part, allow me to introduce you to Linna Sutherland.

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Thank you so much for having me. Oh, my absolute pleasure. Welcome to the show.

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Please, you have a very special family. It's probably a little bit different than most listeners listening to us today, so please introduce us to you and your family and all of your various ministries.

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Sure. So, I have eight children. I guess that's what you're referring to in the fact that our family is…

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Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. Most people probably don't have eight. I don't know. A little different, yes.

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But, so, you know, I think when you and I were talking earlier on, I was talking about how I did the math the other day, and, you know, if you have, like you were saying, you have two children, so you have one sibling relationship dynamic to mediate, manage in your home.

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Interesting. And depending whether you're going permutations or combinations, I think with eight children, it's like 28 different possible connections of relationships going on in the home.

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And so, I definitely have plenty of, you know, opportunity for working with this, but also, you know,

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I went through a period of time in my life where I had a difficult relationship experience with someone outside the family, and it really pulled me into a lot of thinking and praying, reading scripture, seeking counsel about a lot of relational things.

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You know, what does reconciliation look like? Apology, forgiveness, what does that include? And, as I'm sure you've experienced in your life, the things that you are stewing on in your brain, the things that you're reading about, the things that you are learning about that the

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Lord is teaching you, flow downhill into your parenting. And so, as I began to wrestle with these things in a completely outside different setting,

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I began to realize, oh, this all applies directly to the stuff that's happening in our home every day.

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It's not, you know, crisis. It's not dramatic or shocking. It's just regular Christian living with other sinners who have struggles just like we do.

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And, you know, I have, I'm a homeschool mom, and I, for a long time, had blogged about homeschooling, curriculum, and ideas, but I began writing more and more about sibling relationships, because when you homeschool, you spend a lot of time with each other.

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And, as you said, if you have more than one kid, you know, death taxes and sibling conflict are pretty much the things that you can be guaranteed in life.

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And so, I found that, you know, there are many wonderful people who write about homeschool curriculum and tips and tricks and organizing your supplies and all that, but I found that I was able to talk from a unique perspective about sibling relationships, and especially because, and Aaron, I know you share my heart on this, what

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I want more than anything is to share Jesus with people, to be able to talk, no matter how

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I'm talking, to be able to talk about the Lord. And, I remember one time, my childhood pastor said that he loves preaching children's sermons and weddings, because you can get away with saying all kinds of things because the audience doesn't realize that you're talking to them.

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And so, I feel like the same thing is true about talking about sibling conflict, because, you know, when parents say, okay, my kids are fighting,

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I need some help, and you share with them, and you're talking about the gospel and what we've been forgiven, and our call to forgive others, before they know it, they're like, oh, wait,

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I think that applies to me too. I think this isn't just a how to fix your kids methodology.

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And, you know, and that cycle is exactly what the Lord has designed in parenting.

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You know, it's not this, I'm the expert, I'm the guru, I'm the adult, I've figured everything out, and now I tell you everything, and I fix you, and I make you the way you're supposed to be.

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But, it's this constant cycle in any, you know, in any Christian community, church or family or anything, where we're all constantly, you know, seeing others sin, encouraging them to trust the

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Lord, seeing it in ourselves, you know. And so, as we began doing that in our home,

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I thought, okay, this is something that other moms could benefit from too, and dads. And so, the first thing that I did was

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I created a course for parents called the Sibling Opposition Solution. And it's just an online video -based course that parents can work through at their own pace, to help them understand, really, the heart dynamics.

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And there's plenty of practical in there, but, you know, I love what you said in the introduction, Aaron, about how, you know,

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I could have my opinions, and I could give you top 10 ways to blah, blah, blah, and fix your kids, and make this not happen, or whatever.

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But, that could be just what works for me. And so, what I really wanted was to help parents to be able to understand what's going on in my child's heart.

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What are the temptations, or the struggles, or the character issues? You know, so that instead of doing what works for me in your home, you can learn more about your own child, you know, and then use that knowledge to just come alongside and disciple them.

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And so then, once we had that course up and running... Go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I was just going to say, that's fantastic. I'm loving everything you're saying.

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I just... I want to sit on all of it. But, please, go ahead. Yes, because you've got... You were writing for homeschooling stuff.

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You're creating courses, devotional. So, please, continue on with that. Yeah. So, and then, that was the next step, was that the course was created for parents.

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And so then, parents were saying, this is so great. Can I show these videos to my kids? Or, can

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I, you know, use these lessons with my kids? And I thought, well, you know, these videos really... You know, it's not secret.

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There's no secret sauce. It's all based on the scriptures. So, you're not going to give away any, you know, confidential plans if you share it with your kids.

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But the videos weren't really geared towards kids. They were geared towards parents. So, the devotionals are created for parents to use with the kids.

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So, they are written kind of broadly to, you know, just for a family to be able to read, like on a

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Sunday afternoon or, you know, family devotion time or something. And then, there's a whole bunch of activities that are included with each lesson at a range of ages.

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So, there's all the way from, like, a coloring page to weekly scripture journaling for older teens to, you know, look up other scripture references and answer questions and that kind of thing.

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So, those are geared for the parents to take the things that they've been thinking about and then, you know, communicate them on a kid -friendly level.

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And it's been such a blessing to be able to interact in this way because I, you know,

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I truly feel that homeschooling is important and it's good to support parents who are making decisions there.

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But it's really hard to escape the eternal import of teaching parents how to mediate sibling conflict in a gospel -centered way.

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Yeah. So, with that said, tell us a little bit about the podcast because podcast isn't so much about the homeschooling side of things.

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Podcast is just about dealing with those sibling relationships, all sorts of them, good, the bad, and the ugly.

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So, tell us a little bit about that. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned that because I neglected to mention, but I did eventually separate out all my sibling content onto a separate site because I realized

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I was having more opportunities to speak with groups that weren't necessarily homeschoolers, you know, and I kind of wanted a welcome mat that didn't make people immediately feel like they didn't belong there if they weren't homeschoolers.

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So, Sibling Relationship Lab is entirely just gospel -centered Christian parenting content.

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And the podcast also, really my focus with the podcast is, you know, as I said before, it's not so much tips and tricks, although I do think practical is important.

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You know, if we just stay all in the philosophical realm, it's like, okay, I'm following you, but what does that look like?

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Yeah. I want to do that, but I don't know how to start. So, it's not that there's no practical.

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But my focus really is more, okay, let's take a particular issue. Let's talk about lying.

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Let's talk about technology, screen time. Let's talk about when kids say, that's not fair, or when they say,

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I hate you. It's not like, okay, here are the three steps that you do to eradicate this problem in your home.

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It's more like, okay, let's use this as a practice scenario. Let's step back and think about, what does the scripture say about this?

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What are the principles that God gives us that we need to bring to bear? And what it leaves room for there, which

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God always leaves room for, is wisdom. And I know, I'm speaking for myself and maybe for you too,

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Aaron, I don't know, but I spent a lot of time earlier on in my parenting saying, why didn't

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God give me a rule or a list or a step? Why didn't he just spell it all out?

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No, it's just you. No one else has ever felt that way. No, okay. I'm the only one. Okay, well,

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I'm just going to put all my cards on the table here, and the rest of you who don't have this problem can just follow along for a moment.

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So, you know, it would be great if we had this list, right? But the thing is that God is way more gracious and generous and patient than we imagine.

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And really, there are many broad and perfectly acceptable ways to handle a variety of problems.

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So he doesn't say, well, when your child gets out of bed at night after they've been sent to bed, these are the six steps.

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No, he says, let me tell you about human nature. Let me tell you about sin and temptation.

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Let me tell you about gracious, godly discipling and how to speak to someone and call them back on the path.

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And so we're growing as we're parenting. We are growing in our ability to disciple and to use wisdom.

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And I think, you know, God never leaves us in a place where we no longer have to pray and look to the

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Lord for wisdom. Just like in James, when it talks about how if anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask the

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Lord who gives generously and without reproach. And that second part of it is my favorite, the without reproach, because it reminds me that God is never, you know, when

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I say, Lord, I'm sorry, I'm lost again. Can you help me? He's never going, really? Seriously?

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We just talked about this last week. You need more wisdom? You know, he says, yes,

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I'm so glad you asked. Here's a lot. Here's more than you asked for. And so, you know, as we're learning about how to manage the sibling conflict, we're also learning about our own hearts and our own, you know, our own tendencies and our own, you know, like when you yell at the kids, stop yelling.

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Whoops. OK, so it's not just them that need to repent. It's not just them that need to be willing to forgive when someone else is sinned against you.

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Yeah, that's awesome. Remind me where we're going with this conversation. No, this is fantastic, because that's really what you're hearing is,

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I mean, she's introducing what the podcast is about. And of course, obviously, within the course of the podcast, she gets into a lot more information filled with biblical scriptures.

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It's filled with how to apply that and to teach that to your children. That's why I love it so much. And I love your passion.

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You're just going on and on. That's amazing. And I'm so glad to finally have you on the show. We've actually been trying to get this interview going for a while.

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The last date that we planned just so happened to be the day after my 15th anniversary, because, you know,

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I wasn't thinking that maybe we'd be driving home from something special, which we did. It was fantastic. It's so much fun.

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And Linda was nice enough to reschedule. But I'm so glad that we finally made this work because I love your passion.

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I love what you're talking about. And like you said earlier, you know, I'm sure that with eight children in your home, your life is preoccupied, just consumed with the dynamics and the consequences.

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Now, when I did the math, I came up with hundreds, or at least over a hundred different relationships.

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And I'll tell you why. This child has a relationship with this child and the third one, the fourth one, the fifth one, all the way up to the eighth one.

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But I'm sure you know this, but how this child relates to this child is slightly different than how this child relates to these two together, or this one and number six together, or that one and number eight.

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And then there's how they relate to three or four or, you know, how they relate to all seven on one. You know, the dynamics are,

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I think, is probably more than 28 when you start breaking it down like that. But I mean, literally over a hundred different relationships among those eight children with those various siblings.

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And that's what you're trying to negotiate. Like you said, I only have two kids, right? They have that one relationship. My math is easy.

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And it's both a joy and a struggle. And of course, you know, having worked at Victory Academy for boys,

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I had 14 people living in the home. So I really do know, well, the type of thing you're facing. So I suppose, in a way, obviously,

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I don't, I don't, because you've already said so much of it, I don't have to ask this question. But there are so many things that obviously could be discussed.

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And one of the things I wanted to hear about was why you started the Sibling Relationship Lab as opposed to focusing your niche along other lines.

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But it seems to me that the obvious answer is because of all of the unique, well, like you said, first of all, all of the unique relationships within your home that you're dealing with, because you're obviously, you might not consider yourself an expert, but you're definitely someone who has a lot of experience with sibling relationship and conflict.

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But number two, you mentioned that you were going through something yourself that showed you the important dynamics between, within relationships, relationships even,

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I guess, within the body of Christ. So is that the genesis of the podcast then? Yeah, definitely, definitely.

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So I think, you know, another kind of angle of that too is just coming from,

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I think we all begin parenting with more of a, I'm not sure what the word is for it, but a kind of a management model, maybe.

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I don't know, somebody probably has coined that term to mean something else. So I'm not referring to anybody else's term.

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I just don't know what a word for that is. But I was thinking about this today. You know, when we have our first child, and this child is a baby, it's really, really hard to wrap your brain around what it means to have a relationship with that child or to parent in a relational way, right?

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Because it's so physical and it's so decision -oriented, like, well, are we going to bottle feed or breastfeed or are we going to have cloth diapers or disposables?

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Are we going to do this or that? And, you know, what your concept of parenting is like,

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I have a decision, I get online and I read some blogs and I talk to some friends and read some books and I make a decision and I follow up on the steps of that decision, right?

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And it doesn't matter what the kid thinks. Doesn't matter at all. His opinion doesn't factor into it, right.

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And so we began thinking of parenting as this kind of functional decision -making. We have problems, we find solutions, we implement the solutions kind of a thing.

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And so it can be, I think, natural, not necessarily helpful, but natural to fall into thinking of parenting in that same way.

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This person's doing this thing, I don't want them to do it anymore. I find a solution, I implement the solution,

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I fix the problem. And leaving out the person that's there underneath that all and really in the heart.

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So when you're talking, I mean, you know, obviously diapers is one thing, but when you're talking about a person and their behavior, it's easy to focus on the outside.

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You know, I want certain results. I want certain things to happen or not happen. But really the

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Lord is bringing those things to the surface to allow us to understand something deeper, which is the heart.

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And you know, the scripture is full of verses about, you know, out of the heart the mouth speaks and other things like that that illustrate that when we're talking, it's not just something that your teeth and your lips and your tongue are doing.

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It's something that your heart is doing. And so our instinct as parents really is to kind of take care of the outside and to miss that underneath piece, that heart piece.

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And then, you know, in that relational dynamic. See, this is, I'm gonna jump in here real quick.

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I'm just so excited that you're saying this because Todd Friel, somebody I just had on the show recently was saying nearly the identical thing.

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This is something that we've been talking about on Truth, Love, Parent. And this is why I said that sibling relationship lab was a fantastic podcast because in the milieu of podcasts out there that talk about parenting and sometimes even

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Christian parenting, they're not talking about this. I was listening to two or three different podcasts. People email me at a time, review this book, review this thing, review this podcast.

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And I was listening to some podcasts and it was amazing to me how they talked about circumstances, how they talked about chemicals in the person's body, how they talked about all these different things, but they weren't talking about how the person was responding in their heart.

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Now we know that from the scriptures, spirit, mind, heart are all basically the same thing, how a person is choosing to respond to this stuff.

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And I love the sibling relationship lab, not because we agree or we agree with Todd Friel or anything like that, but that we're all agreeing because we're rooting what we're saying in God's word and God's word has the answer.

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And parenting behavior and parenting circumstances and the controlling and whatnot, it never is going to work like reaching a person's heart with God's word.

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And I just, I'm so glad to hear you say that. And I love, again, I love the passion that you bring to each episode that you put out and what you're sharing with us today.

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But before we move on, I do want to talk a little bit more about that special gift I told you guys about earlier.

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Normally we have a book giveaway, but only one or two people can win those. Well today, every single listener can be a winner.

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I think this is the first time we've ever done this. Even if you're listening to this in the future, you can still be a winner.

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So stick around until the end of the episode and we'll tell you about Linna's amazing and very gracious offer.

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Now, back to the gospel in real life, because we haven't been talking about that yet. We want to talk about some more.

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We want to get even more practical. I'm sure that all of us would agree that there's nothing more important than the gospel.

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It's what gives us spiritual life. It's what empowers that life. But I think, like you mentioned earlier, for many of us there's this disconnect between the theological concepts, the philosophical pie -in -the -sky and the great buy -and -buy when we will never die.

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Those big concepts of the gospel and that everyday experience of our kids' relationships with each other.

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Our children are often fighting about the bathroom, the crayons, the comfy chair in the living room, toys, books, time, clothes, technology.

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So here's the question. How is the gospel supposed to speak into those gritty, very maybe unspiritual -sounding issues?

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And really the answer to that question is our focus for today. Linna and I want to equip you to see how the gospel can completely reshape how we approach and how we handle specifically sibling conflict resolution, but really any and all conflict resolution.

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So Linna, why don't you start us off by explaining to us how you came to realize that the gospel was the only thing that could help you and your children work through their relationship struggles.

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Great question. Okay, so I remember very clearly, Aaron, there was one day where the kids were fighting again.

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I was fed up again. I wanted it to end. And I was definitely at a phase in my parenting where I viewed the

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Bible. I would not have said this at the time. I would not have understood this about myself, but I definitely was using the

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Bible more like a weapon. You're doing something annoying. Let me find a verse to hit you over the head with that will show you you're a bad person.

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And this is what God says will happen to you if you don't stop it and be nice and behave. And so the kids were fighting.

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So I thought, we are going to talk about Matthew 18 because this is not how you handle problems.

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You go to your brother and you talk about it. And if that doesn't work, then you get help, right? And so I sat them all down on the sofa.

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This was not a, come dear children, let me bring you to the word of God. This is like, come dear children,

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God is, you know, just wait until your father gets home, but it's God. And so sit down on the sofa.

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And so, you know, I've been raised in a church and I know that when you start a verse with therefore, you're supposed to go and see what the therefore is there for, right?

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You're supposed to read in context. And so I thought, okay, well, I'm going to be good. I'm not going to just start with that verse that says, if your brother sins against you, go speak to him.

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So we back up and I realize, okay, this is a chapter about sheep seeking.

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That's what Matthew 18 is about, seeking lost sheep. And, you know, and I was thinking like, well, this is a biblical process for, you know, getting justice or getting conflict resolution.

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And of course that is there, but that's really not the purpose. Jesus is saying, hey, if somebody sins against you, that means you were the guy on the scene who saw him go off the path.

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You are the first responder, go after him. And if you can't get him, get some help to get him, right?

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That's what this is about. It's not about like settling the dispute over who gets the red cup. It's not about, you know, right, right.

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This is not about personal justice. This is about, you know, like seeking your brother who's lost, right?

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And this is why right after that passage in Matthew 18 that we often think about when we think about like, church discipline or, you know, handling personal disputes.

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That's when Peter says, okay, because he gets the weight of this.

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Like, this is hard. Why do I have to run after and love and woo back to Christ someone who, you know, has sinned against me?

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So he's like, so, but I mean, how many times? Like seven, would that be cool?

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You know, and Jesus in response tells a story. And the story is the story of the wicked servant who was forgiven an immense debt that could never have been repaid.

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And then in return, wouldn't forgive a small debt to his neighbor. And so it was the first time

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I ever really saw that chapter as a whole unit and the whole flow of what was happening there.

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Jesus says, seek sheep. Here's what that looks like. You're not kidding.

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It is really hard, but let me tell you why I'm still calling you to do that because I've done even more than that for you, more than you could ever repay.

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And so as the Lord often does, you know, I think this is going to be one of those times where I put my kids in their place.

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And instead the Lord uses this session for me to go, oh, wait. I think I was the one who got a little bit of a talking to in this session as I read this passage with them.

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And so, you know, I began to realize, and I don't mean like, oh, it was a light bulb moment. And from then on,

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I was a wonderful mom. I never did that again. But, you know, I think that kind of was a milestone.

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And as I began to realize all of these things, the red cup and the who sits next to the baby in the car and the, you know, whose turn is it to whatever, in a sense, these things don't matter.

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And I don't mean they really don't matter, but I mean they're almost like object lessons. So, you know, when you do,

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I don't know, math with your kids or whatever, the problems that you're solving in the math book ultimately are irrelevant.

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Like, you're not really going to go to the store and buy 48 watermelons and cut them all in quarters, right?

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But why are we talking about this? Well, it's just because we have this math concept that we want to learn. And so here's a sample of how to kind of work through that and talk about it, right?

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So when they're fighting about the red cup and you're thinking like, okay, now I need a strategy for how to decide turns of who gets the red cup today and who gets the red cup tomorrow, which, by the way, that's fine.

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Totally fine to have routines and strategies and keep a chart and whatever cute things you want to do. That's great.

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Pinterest has lots of fun ideas. But what you're really talking about is are we, are our priorities out of order, right?

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So like Calvin would say that the heart is a perpetual idol factory. Augustine would say that we have disordered loves, right?

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So are we loving plans more than people? Are we loving possessions more than people, right?

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And so the red cup, just one practice problem on that issue. My pastor used to say that he has one sermon that he preaches every

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Sunday. And it just, you know, it's a different scripture passage or whatever, but every Sunday the sermon is, you know, you're a sinner, you need a savior.

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Christ is your savior. And in Christ, this is what you're called to do. And so in a sense, we have one message as parents, right?

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And that message takes lots of different forms and we can talk about it in lots of different ways in all the different things that come up.

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But every time our kids fight, instead of saying like, here's an annoying, inconvenient thing that I just need to get out of the way as soon as possible, it's like a

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Jonah moment, right? The Lord is saying, Jonah, go to Nineveh, preach to the people.

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You know, this is not what I wanted to do right now. I was in the middle of making dinner. I don't want to go and settle this.

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But the Lord is calling you. These people need to hear the message. And this is the time to say, yes,

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Lord, even if you have to be in the belly of the whale for a few days before you catch on, this is what you're supposed to be doing.

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So that's the beginning of what it looks like. I've never been in there yet. Yeah, and so much of that is so beautiful.

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Because I love the fact that you brought up Jonah because God worked just as much in Jonah's life as he did in the

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Ninevites. And Jonah would have thought of himself as being so much more righteous and better off on his way toward glory.

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The Ninevites, terrible people, need to be destroyed anyway. But God had just as much work to do. In fact, I would argue he actually had more work to do because Jonah ran,

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God got him, whole whale thing, whole fish thing, whatever. Then he gets there and he preaches and the people repent.

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The people are like, whoa, this is a big deal. The whole nation repents because Jonah's preaching, right?

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Half -heartedly preaching. But Jonah still didn't get it. And then we have all the stuff afterward with the plant and whatnot.

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And you're right. We parents are like that so often. In fact, we have an episode called

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Parenting Like Jonah. It's a lot of the same concepts that you're talking about. But I love the fact that you're tying this into the gospel that it's not about the red cup.

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And I'm assuming just from the way you brought that up that this red cup is a very special thing in your household.

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I'm kidding. We actually don't have a red cup thing. We use mason jars, but I don't know.

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I've heard so many parents talk about kids who are fighting over who gets the red cup. It's a handy illustration.

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I get that. In our house, it's not a red cup. But that's one reason I think that parents do a really good job of buying two of the same thing or slightly different ones because they're trying to avoid that.

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Because we as parents so often want to avoid the things that God is putting into our path so that we can do the job he called us to do.

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I think I said this recently on another podcast, but the whole reality of the fact is if our kids were perfect, they wouldn't need parents.

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They need parents because they don't know what to do or because they're going to mess up.

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But it's the actual parenting from which we shy. We don't want any part of it. Because you're right, it involves not just changing behavior.

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It involves reconciliation. That is the heart of the gospel. Reconciliation. I want to go off of something you said earlier about how we approach the kids.

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You sat the kids down on the couch. Here we go. Matthew chapter 18. So often our parenting, because we feel inconvenienced by the fact that I have to parent right now, it's me versus you.

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There's a line in the sand. If you were just here, everything would be okay. It's all boom, me versus you.

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When in actuality, it's technically God versus all of us. We're sinners.

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We run from God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. So as a parent, to say, not, hey, you stupid sheep.

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Get in line. What are you doing? It's more like, oh, no, that sheep is wandering. That sheep is going to get lost and hurt.

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Bad things are going to happen to that sheep. It's not, I'm so mad at you. But it's, oh, no,

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I care for you, and I don't want this to happen to you. And you bring it in and you say, hey, listen, I'm in the same position that you are.

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I'm following the master shepherd himself. And I just want, I love you and I want you to be safe.

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And we're doing this together. And that just, that is the gospel. That's hopefully why we share the gospel with people in our communities.

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Not just because, you know. Oh, go ahead. Yeah. You know, when, so when we're in Christ, we have the

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Holy Spirit inside of us and we are a new creation. And we have the ability to do what God is calling us to do.

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But we also have this remaining sin nature, right? It's this already and not yet. And so there's this kind of inner tug of war that's going on.

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And so it's understandable that our children sometimes feel like we're against them.

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And, you know, even when I'm, even when my heart is in the right place and when I'm parenting out of love and out of concern for my child, it's still understandable that he or she might think, you know, mommy's just out to get me.

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Mommy doesn't want me to have any fun. You know, and so what I try to explain to my children is I'm not against you.

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I'm on the side of the new Emma. I'm on the side of the new Henry. And you and I together are warring against, you know, the world, the flesh and the devil, those things that are tempting you or that are causing you to struggle.

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And right now you're kind of identifying more with your temptations than you are with who you are in Christ.

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Yeah. And so it feels like I'm against you, but I'm calling you back. I'm calling you to be who you are in Christ, who

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Christ has made you to be. Yeah, I love that. We use something similar in our home. You know, you're a new

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Micah, but you're acting like the old Micah. But we're to put to death the old man, right?

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We're supposed to deny the flesh. And yeah, I love the way you put that. So let's get nitty gritty. So much of this has been about us as parents, right, coming at this the right way.

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Because if we, it's not just about, okay, if I use the gospel, I can solve my sibling conflict issues.

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It's if I understand the gospel, I'm going to approach the sibling conflict issues in a completely different way.

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And again, if you only have one child, if you're listening today, or you're watching on YouTube and you're like, I only have one kid, it's the exact same thing.

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The exact same gospel that's going to help your kids reconcile is what's going to help you and your spouse reconcile, you and your child reconcile.

33:28

It's all the same thing. But let's just, it really kind of comes as a capstone to this whole conversation.

33:34

Before we wrap up here, let's talk a little bit about something specific. I'm talking to this children. I've got my heart right.

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Okay. I'm understanding how the gospel plays into this. There's a million things that can be said to a million different kids using a million different metaphors and illustrations and whatnot.

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But what are the main seed thoughts that we should be kind of casting out there when we're trying to help our children reconcile with each other?

34:01

Mm -hmm. Okay, so I'm going to back up a little bit, Aaron, and I'm going to say that when our children are in conflict, it's usually not the best time to teach them big ideas.

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Mm -hmm. Just like we know about test anxiety. Yeah. When you're anxious, your brain is not in a frame of mind to do its best learning and its best storing away of information, retrieving stored information.

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So what we really have to do, and this isn't to push back at you at all, but just for those who are listening and thinking through this, what we really have to do is we have to focus on teaching in times of non -conflict.

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Definitely, yes. And so that when it's a moment of conflict, it's not like, oh, we've never talked about this before, but let me bring up this whole little mini -sermon that I'm going to unleash on you to try to fix you and to try to make this problem go away.

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Rather, we need to be in the habit of having these conversations at times when it's,

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A, their brain is not in fight -or -flight mode, and B, it's theoretical, right? So if I start talking to you right now about you need to love your sister more than things, you know if I agree with Mom, I don't get the

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Red Cup. So yeah, not interested. But if you're talking about it in theory, you know, like you're having family devotions or you're just driving to Walmart or whatever and you're just having these conversations, nothing's on the line.

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Nothing's threatened by listening to Mom and agreeing with Mom and absorbing what she says. So, you know, a lot of these conversations happen at other times and then in the moment of conflict, a lot of what we're saying is the same thing.

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It's the same ideas over and over. You know, like I said before, you kind of have one sermon. But a few things that we want to think about are, it kind of comes down to, are you loving things more than people?

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Are you loving, you know, your own plans or your own agenda more than people? Were you handling that in a way that showed that you cared about the other person's needs?

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There's a scripture verse that we talk about all the time. Look not only to your own interests, but to others' interests.

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You know, consider others more significant than yourself. And I think that's often what it comes down to. It's not wrong to want something or to seek to have a turn or to, you know, get the toy or whatever.

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Those things aren't wrong. But we don't seek our own good at the expense of others. And so one of the rules that we have in our house to help facilitate that is called stop and talk.

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And so, you know, if, let's say one child is whistling and another child says, you know,

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I'm trying to read, stop whistling. Well, you know, our children don't have the authority to command each other.

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So when one child says stop whistling, the other child doesn't necessarily have to obey the way that you might, you know, if a parent gave an instruction.

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But what I tell my children is, you must stop and talk. So even if you aren't compelled to stop whistling just because someone told you to, you still need to communicate,

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I care about you and your interests and your concerns are important to me. And the way that you do that is by stopping what you're doing at least long enough to have a conversation about it.

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And so you might say, you know, oh, okay, I'll go in another room and whistle. Or, oh yeah,

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I didn't know you were reading. I can stop whistling. Or, you know, if it's the kind of situation where it's like, okay, this person is having a really bad day and they're not, you know, they're getting really irritated about little things.

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Maybe we need mom to help us sort this out or something. But just that idea that instead of saying like, you know, you're not the boss of me,

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I don't have to do what you say, and I'm just going to whistle and pretend like I didn't hear you. One way to communicate,

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I do care about you, I care about what's important to you, is to stop and talk in, you know, situations when someone's upset with you.

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And that goes right back to what Christ did for us. He forgave us, but we're not willing to forgive other people. He stoops, he condescends to us, but we're not willing to stop in that moment and have an honest, you know, age -appropriate conversation with somebody about what they just requested.

38:09

It's so beautiful, it's so easy. I love what you said about, you know, having those conversations in low -tension times, so important.

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We refer to them oftentimes as touchstones. You've laid that foundation, you can, hey, remember that conversation we had when we talked about the best way to handle this?

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And they're like, oh yeah, and I remember agreeing to that and saying it was a good idea, yeah. Yeah, it's so much better that way.

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And let's be honest, there isn't a single experience or relationship or opportunity in our lives that doesn't require the gospel, okay?

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We can never hope to navigate anything in this life without knowing, understanding, and believing the gospel, okay?

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And we're certainly going to be better parents when we are actively working to guide our children to better know, understand, and believe the gospel.

38:55

Whether this is in sibling conflict resolution or fighting temptation, like you said, or eating in a way that pleases the

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Lord or choosing your friends, it's all going to require that. Lena, thank you so much for your time today.

39:07

I want all of my listeners to connect with you and the Sibling Relationship Lab, so please tell us the best way to do that.

39:14

Sure, well, the podcast is available on all the normal places you'd find podcasts, Sibling Relationship Lab. You can also find the episodes and other articles on the website,

39:24

SiblingRelationshipLab .com, and we're on Facebook and Instagram as well as Sibling Relationship Lab. Yeah, pretty easy to find.

39:30

I appreciate you keeping them all consistent like that. And SiblingRelationshipLab .com is where you're going to find your wonderful gift, okay?

39:38

Lena is graciously offering all TLP listeners 20 % off of her

39:43

Sibling Investigations devotionals. Now, earlier today, I purchased and I downloaded my copy of the

39:50

Sibling Investigations devotionals, and I'm really looking forward to working through those devotionals with my kids. I've already perused it, and I've already gone through what she said about the age -appropriate different, not assignments, but age -appropriate projects and whatnot that go along with it.

40:03

She's not kidding. It's crazy. There's one lesson, and then there are 12 pages, one page each of if they're this age or if this would be better for them or if this would be better for them.

40:13

I was like, wow, the diversity is fantastic, and that's totally thinking like a homeschool mom of eight kids where she wants to teach the same concept to kids from two years old up to 18, right?

40:23

So, really, but she's offering 20 % off of those devotionals.

40:29

So, in the description of this episode is a link that will take you not to siblingrelationshiplab .com,

40:35

but to a page at truthloverparent .com. On that page, it'll tell you everything you want to know about the devotionals, and that's also where you're going to find your coupon code.

40:44

We're not going to reveal it here. You want to go to truthloverparent .com? Follow the link in the description, and you'll be able to find out about those devotionals and the coupon code.

40:53

And when you're ready to purchase the devotionals, you click on the link on the page. Okay, now this is very important.

40:59

Yes, you can go directly to Lina's website and download the devotionals using the coupon code that you'll find at truthloverparent .com.

41:05

But if you use our link to her website, TLP will actually receive a commission off of your purchase.

41:11

That's right, Lina was generous enough to allow TLP to join her affiliate program, which is super cool.

41:17

So, if you use our link to redirect you to siblingrelationshiplab .com, you will bless your family with these devotionals, you'll bless the sibling relationship lab and Lina, and you'll be blessing

41:28

TLP. And as I've said this before, it's a win for everyone. So from there, you select the devotional option you want, and during checkout, all you have to do is use the coupon code that we have posted at truthloverparent .com.

41:41

Again, that link is in the description, and I hope every single one of you will take advantage of this resource. You don't have to share anything on Facebook, you don't have to do anything like that, everyone can be a winner today.

41:50

So Lina, thank you so much for your podcast, for your ministries, for your resources, and again, thank you for offering this gracious discount.

41:57

I am really looking forward to working through the devotional with my kids, and I'm also very much looking forward to your next episode.

42:03

Thank you very much. So, thank you for having me today. Now, as always, please subscribe to TLP if you haven't done it yet, and add the sibling relationship lab to your listening lineup.

42:13

And then share this episode on your favorite social media outlets so other parents can be introduced to Lina Sutherland.

42:19

And if you need specific help for the sibling relationship battles in your house, please don't ever hesitate to write us at counselor at truthloveparent .com

42:26

or call us at 828 -423 -0894. And I hope you'll join us next time as we open

42:33

God's word to discover how you can parent your children for life and godliness. To that end, we'll be discussing the second part of our newest series,