Black Hebrew Israelites with Vocab Malone | Apologetics Live 0042

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This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. All righty, all righty, all righty, we are live,

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Apologetics Live here with you on Thursday night, every Thursday night, 8 o 'clock

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Eastern Time, to answer any of your apologetic questions, challenges, and even sometimes debates.

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I doubt that we're going to have much of a debate as we hoped tonight, because I think that say that I'm running scared are, well, running scared.

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I am your host, Andrew Rappaport, with Striving for Eternity. Later, I'm going to be joined in about half an hour by a friend of mine,

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Vocab Malone, and we're going to talk specifically about an area he is an expert in, and that is

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Black Hebrew Israelites, which, by the way, we got to change that because they don't like the word Black anymore.

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So it's just Hebrew Israelites, or as one person referred to it today as Negro Hebrew Israelites.

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I was like, oh, that's interesting. We're bringing that word back, okay. So I'm not sure they keep changing their name, but here's a thing that I want to do before vocab gets in, because those of you who have been on Apologetics Live Facebook group and also the other group that we deal with is called

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Christian Apologetics, and we have been infiltrated by a new group that I'm not,

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I never heard of this group before, but it's Israel only. And so it was the first time

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I dealt with them, and wow, are they wacky, but challenged one of their guys to come in and actually defend his claims, and he said,

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I'm running scared. So I'll just give a shout out, Chaz, I'm right here. Not running anywhere, am

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I? No, I do this show every Thursday night, usually with my friend Matt Slick, who is just still dealing with a lot of issues as he's trying to get between family issues and then trying to pack up still and move, which was delayed from before.

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And so we are usually here to answer your Apologetics questions. We actually do take debates, actually,

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I've been accused of being a liar because the Jewish guy that I mentioned, he won't debate me.

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He won't contact me back. I've left. Well, you can't leave a voicemail because it's a pager.

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So I've paged him, I've sent emails. So unfortunately, I guess we won't talk about rabbinic

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Judaism. But oh, well, that doesn't make me a liar because I actually did what

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I said. I tried to reach out to the guy. I'm not running scared from a debate with a Jewish person. Nope, I am not.

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I am hoping to be able to debate Tovia Singer. Not going to say that he's running scared.

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I'm just going to say that, yeah, we can't seem to set that up.

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But what I do want to do is to start with is to talk about this whole thing of what

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I've been noticing, maybe not so much with the Israel only. But when we talk about black

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Hebrew Israelites or Hebrew Israelites, I never know now which is the proper terminology to use. So if I use a term that is not the one that someone listening may hold to, it is not that I'm trying to be disrespectful to your group.

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It's just when the names keep changing or people use different names, I don't know which one to use. So I'm going to call them black

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Hebrew Israelites. That's how I was introduced to them as or I'll try to sometimes call them Hebrew Israelites.

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I think that's different than an actual Hebrew Israelite, which I would be. So there's a thing that I've noticed.

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You look at like the Roman Catholic Church and they want to claim that they have priests like Israel had priests.

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And there's like almost like there's hangover. There's things that they want to they want to carry over into the church to try to say, well, we have the authority that Israel had.

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God had their chosen people. And therefore, people seem like they want to get some sort of I don't know what's the best word, maybe like a little bit of a spiritual boost or something saying that they are somehow more spiritual because they're

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Israel. I see this when I look at the black Hebrew Israelites. I see this when I look at the Hebrew roots movement, people trying to claim some authority because they claim that there are more

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Jewish or more in line with Israel and they are that God's chosen people.

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So I noticed that there seems to be this this idea that people want to be identified with Israel.

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Now, Israel had a purpose as a nation, and they were God's chosen people for one reason to bring about the

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Messiah. Messiah came now, is there something still special about the nation of Israel?

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I would say yes, and I'm and it's not just because I'm a Levite that I say that, but I think that would and by the way,

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I should mention this because I know that a lot of the Hebrew Israelites claim that I can't be a

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Hebrew Israelite. The way you would determine this sort of thing would be to go back.

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You know, your father was so and so your father was so and so father, so and so all the way back. And if your father goes all the way back to Abraham and you're in that genealogy, that would make you an

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Israelite. So you'd be the Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, one of those 12 tribes.

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So if you're in that line, that would make you an

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Israelite. That would make you a Hebrew. Now where that's different than what we would talk about when we say a spiritual

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Israel that we'd see in Romans chapter six, where there are Gentiles that the church and it's the church ends up being referred to as Israel.

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And that is a little bit of a different sense because what you end up seeing there is that he's using the word, the term differently than the nation of Israel.

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I personally believe that God's not done with the nation of Israel. I think that's why they're still around today.

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And you have people that identify as Jews or Israelites and they're back in the nation.

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I think God is going to do something with them. And because of that, I think they are still special in some way that God is going to fulfill the promises he made to them.

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But as a nation, there's actually nothing super special about them other than God selected them. And so I say that as someone who is

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Jewish and therefore it's not, you know, it's not like, oh, we got, we got to make something special about them.

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I often tell people when they ask me, well, you know, how did you get saved? Like there's something different about the way

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I got saved versus every other person, I got saved the same way every

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Gentile gets saved by the grace of God, bringing me to repentance. So we shouldn't try,

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I think, to raise the nation of Israel or, you know, background in, in, uh, to Israel in a higher position than God would claim.

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And so that's just something we need to think through. Now, uh, we're going to, uh, what

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I want to do is I'm going to bring Adam in here, um, because he and I were talking before we got, we went in. So welcome

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Adam to apologetics live. Thank you, Andrew. Uh, I apologize in advance. If my audio is not great,

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I am on my iPhone, but I'm glad to be here. We'll see. But the advantage you have is you're a better looking guy than me.

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So right off the bat, no, one's going to care. They're just going to be like, just get Andrew's face off of it. Yeah.

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Well, you know, that's true, but see, I got, I got you're still hanging on by a thread there.

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Yeah. Oh yeah. But less and less threads up there. Uh, yeah, it was funny. Matt actually was like, said that when

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I, I, I laugh or, you know, that I, I, there's a Hebrew letter that forms right between my eyes, like frown for me.

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I'm like, Oh man. So speaking of Hebrew, these, uh,

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Israel only cultists. Yeah. Yeah. You've done a little bit of research on that. And like I said,

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I mean, you and I were talking beforehand. I, I never heard of them before about a week ago when they came into the

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Apologetics live. And so funny, funny that the behavior you see in Facebook groups. So in, in Chris, in the, in the

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Christian Apologetics group, they, one guy just put out into another group. Hey, here's a group where they'll let us talk about this.

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And then we all came in like in, within a week we had dozens of, and they're like,

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Oh, and that's like every post is about this. And it's, it's a, a trolling technique that I've seen.

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I've seen it with a bunch of different groups that do this. Um, and this was, but this is where it's helpful because I would not,

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I don't think you would have known about them had we not been in this group. No. And it definitely gives us an opportunity to sharpen our apologetic against, um, different worldviews and arguments, even if the arguments are, uh, relatively one dimension.

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Yeah. So, so now you've done a little bit more research than, than I did. Um, and so can you, can you explain what you've been able to figure out?

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Cause I, I'll tell you when I looked at this Israel only, I'm like, um, okay. Are they black Hebrew Israelites? No, wait, there's some white guys.

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Okay. Are they claiming they were, they're Israelites. Okay. Are they claiming that they're

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Hebrew roots movement? I was so confused. Sure. I started to realize that actually they're, they're just kind of saying crazy stuff.

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I don't know. Yeah. And I'm sure, I'm sure we'll be able to get into that a bit, but, um, some of the research that I've done and I want to throw a shout out to Praetoristarchive .org

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for the research that they had already, uh, on hand for them, uh, but they're, they're being classified as hyper

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Praetorists or, um, what they like to call consistent Praetorism, but the entire idea behind it, first off, it's important as, as a presuppositional list, uh, it's important for me to note that there is no faith commitment, uh, nor is there any commitment to the word of God, uh, in what their argumentation, uh, is rooted in, uh, so from that, from that perspective, just from a starting point,

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I have to question that in the validity of, of such an argument, especially when it's trying to handle

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God's word. Um, what I have been able to find out about them, both through my research and through my interactions with them on the apologetics forum is essentially that, uh, they, they are trying to close canon completely on the

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Christian faith, saying that the Christian faith should not have existed, that we're borrowing a redemption story from first century

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Israel and, and prior to that, uh, and that with the conclusion of that, basically just what it sounds like full praetorism that, uh, there's no return of Christ, everything occurred in 70

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AD. I think it's especially deceptive, uh, what it is that the, the argument that they've crafted, uh, because there are so many partial praetorists that are, um, well within orthodoxy in the

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Christian church right now. So it's, it's not a far cry to try to persuade people into full praetorism.

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The problem is, is what you sacrifice when you do that. Yeah. And I think, uh, you know,

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I don't know that the group is as clear, um, as we would like to think, because I think, uh, some of them do claim that they are real

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Jewish people are real Israelites. Uh, some as, as you know, some people have contacted me this week.

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Some have that are tied to Hebrew roots movement. Um, one that seems to be an atheist, like, what do you do with that?

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I'm almost convinced that it's a hodgepodge of just people trying to come up with something new.

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They can feel, you know, there is a pride that everybody has. I honestly, if I may interrupt for just a moment,

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I honestly think that it is a concerted effort to try to, um, bring a slow conclusion to Christianity in general.

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I think that's the ultimate end game goal, which is ambitious on their part. But, um, silly from our perspective, uh, obviously we know that the church is, uh, ordained by God.

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Um, the one in my experience though, I just wanted to specify, and I think that this is such a hodgepodge of so many different characters that are coming together to present this argumentation that I don't think that there's necessarily an orthodoxy there.

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Um, the people that I have talked to, uh, have not claimed that they're Israelites.

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Uh, they have not claimed that they've obtained salvation. Uh, rather they claim that salvation is closed and, and we essentially live, uh, in the realm of eternity now.

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Yeah. And, and the, the, the, some that were given arguments to me were basically saying that basically after 70

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AD, all of, I mean, Israel's just done. Completely done after 70 AD. And I'm like, okay, not, not at Christ at the cross.

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It's 70 AD. Okay. And that's, that's, that's because yeah, they want to incorporate

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Matthew 24 and everything else into it. So they have to say at 70 AD. And so what you end up saying though, that's really interesting with it is they're, they're arguing that then they're arguing that one person was arguing, well, like Christian is the wrong term because it's still a

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Jewish religion and it's an Israelite religion. I'm like, okay.

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And so, so what do you do? You know, they're saying that it's only to Israel and God's, you know, the one person that was saying that God only has a relationship with Israel and I went, well, what do you do with like Daniel chapter four, where he seems to have a relationship with a pagan

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King? That's right. Yeah. Fantastic point. Yeah. And he's like, but you didn't deal with the texts that I said.

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Well, see, the thing is you're taking that text out of context. And that was true by looking at another verse where God does have a relationship with Gentiles.

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And there's plenty of examples of that. You can go to acts 10, which is what I'll be preaching this, this weekend.

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Um, right, right after the texts, the texts I had, it's from last week is a text where Peter is sent to a

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Gentile home and he's like, no, no, no. I can't do that. That would, that wouldn't be kosher quite literally. And don't call, uh, what did he say?

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He said, uh, he, God puts this food in for him and says, and he says, I've never eaten anything unclean.

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He says, don't call unclean. What I call clean. Right, right.

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Well, and there's so many, so many points in scripture and I really do want to touch on their, uh, ability to, uh,

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I use this term loosely, but their ability to exegete scripture is really, really poor, obviously they're just taking everything out of context to suit their narrative.

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Uh, but I want to touch on, on why exegete scripture. Right. Yeah.

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No, they're, they're, they're just, they're just pulling verses and saying what they wanted to say. Yeah. That's called eisegesis where you read a meaning into the text.

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Exegesis means pulling the meaning out of the text. Right. They're, they're not doing that. Yeah, no.

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Yeah. Thank you for the correction. Absolutely. I said, Jesus, as opposed to exegesis. Um, but I, I do want to touch on that and going back to what you were saying before, um, there are,

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I don't, I don't like proof texting, but there are so many texts that in the, in the, in the proper context completely refute their entire position, the great commission, uh, or act 17, where, uh,

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Paul goes before the Greeks and, uh, says, I see in all ways, you're very religious.

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He's obviously proselytizing to Greeks that are not in the Jewish family. Uh, there's just so much in the scripture, um, that, that absolutely refutes what they're saying.

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Yeah. And, uh, I think that, you know, some of the arguments they're making, it's, this is the thing that you end up seeing.

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There's two types of people that you end up seeing in apologetics type groups. There's those that are asking honest questions or have honest challenges and both

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I'm putting in the category of honest meaning there are those who, I mean, I've had conversations, plenty of professing atheists who they don't believe in God or so they claim.

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But they are, they think they have a really good challenge and they think they're going to, they're, they, you can't answer it.

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Okay. Well, that's fine. Let's have that debate. And what you end up seeing is there's others like many of these guys that I saw that are nothing more than trolls.

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They're, they're, they're there not to answer a question. I mean, we, we, this guy, Chaz, who, who says, you know, he's like, he can't make it

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Thursday night. And I said, okay, well, any Thursday night and someone else,

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I don't, don't remember who was like, uh, something tells me he's going to never be able to make it on a Thursday night. And sure enough, he's like,

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I have plans every Thursday night. So I was like, okay, so what are your plans? I mean, that's a simple question, right?

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His response was like, how dare you? You're the nerve of you. You know, I'm like, wow, that's defensive.

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Like, yeah. Well, and obviously, you know, they're here to present a one dimensional argument to try to, uh, to refute what, what it is that is, you know, the foundations of our worldview.

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And I don't think that their argument, uh, though, it seems like somebody's put a lot of thought into it. I don't think it's deep enough to, to be able to really dig at the roots of truth.

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Uh, there was one thing you said at the beginning of the show that I just thought was so great, uh, that you are a Jew and that you've come to salvation and come to Christ according to the grace of God.

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And one thing that I put into the, into the, the group earlier today, because what I saw was a lot,

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I saw a lot of people who are trying to present scripture, like we've been doing, um, trying to present scripture in conversation with these

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Israelite only or Israel only full praterists, so to speak. And my belief is, this is that, uh, we are, our eyes are open.

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We have eyes to see and ears to hear by the grace of God alone. And that, uh, is a critical part of properly understanding scripture.

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So if we are, uh, if we're given those eyes to see, and they're not of our own, and these people are clearly not regenerated, uh, these people are clearly not interested in salvation currently, their entire argument refutes that.

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Um, then why would we take their advice on what they have to say on scripture? Yeah, exactly.

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And that's the thing that you end up seeing is that a lot of these folks, well, look, when you, it is one thing

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I had to say to someone, if you have to take the scripture out of context, twist the meaning, try to give it a meaning it never had to make your argument, then your argument's not valid.

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That's right. You know, so you're not at that point, I'm dealing with someone who's not interested in truth. I think there's a different category for people who disagree and they, they have their disagreement and they're just, they can't see what is being explained.

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That's different than I think these guys who don't even attempt to, they don't attempt to listen. They don't attempt to converse with you.

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It's just, they have some there to say they're almost like the flat earthers, you know, the same, same category.

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Um, it's just that they're just, they're there to teach. They're not there to listen. They know it all.

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And at that point you're dealing with someone with pride, which I think God's pretty clear on his position.

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I think he hates it. I've had to stop, but I've had to step away from a couple of the conversations in the

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Facebook group, just because of that very reason, because I know that if I, you know, if I'm continuously engaging the same person over and over again, that's really just my pride trying to win a conversation.

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That's what they're here for. Uh, but in apologetics, we should be here to save souls. Uh, these people are militant, are militant atheists.

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They're haters of God. They're at enmity with God. And that's why they're here proselytizing their, their anti, uh, anti gospel message.

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Yeah. And I, I think the thing you end up seeing is when you have people like this,

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I think that, um, and I'm trying to remember, uh, I think it was either Gabe Hughes that I'm pretty sure it was

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Gabe Hughes that told me he's got a three comment rule. He bases this off of the passage where Paul says, you know, reject a divisive man after the second or third admonition.

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So he casts not your pearls before swine. Yeah. He, he, he gives it three times.

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You, you, you say, son, he tries to correct it. They come after you tries to correct it after the third time.

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He's just done. Okay. You got the last word I'm done with it. And he walks away. Oh, well, you know, I think in an environment, scripturally speaking, when we are commanded, uh, to give a reason defense of our faith, uh, that is so, uh, providential on God's part by including that in his word saying try once, try twice and then walk away.

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Yeah. And I think there is, there is a time that we have to walk away. I admit,

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I will, I will freely admit there's plenty of times I should have walked away a lot sooner. Thankfully we have the blood to cover our sins in that fashion.

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You know, I will say this. There was a guy who I I've always done this as a way of trying to show someone his, his pride.

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Uh, I'll say to someone, I'll say, look, I'm not going to read what you, what you post. I'm not going to, whatever you say, I'm not responding again.

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I'm not reading it, but the fact that you're going to feel like you have to respond. The fact that you probably will respond is the proof that you have the issue with the pride.

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Cause I'm going to walk away now. And it's amazing how many, I mean, every time I've done that, probably hundreds of times, one guy actually didn't respond, right.

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I was like, wow, that was the first, you got it. Yeah. One, one other thing you're using there, you're using their own pride gets into that way.

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Cause it's like, if I respond, I'm proving this guy, right. Yeah. They answer not the fool according to their folly. Right.

23:05

Yeah. So one, one other thing that I wanted to say about these, uh, these

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IO people is, um, don't, uh, if I can, if I can, if I'm in a position, which, uh,

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I'm, I'm not, I'm nobody but a blue collar worker, but if I'm in a position to offer anybody any advice as it comes to, uh, dealing with them,

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I just, if, if it's a one dimensional argument, if you take the scripture out of their hands, they have no argument left.

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If you simply doubt the fact that they're able to rightly divide the word of God. Then it cuts the legs right out from underneath them.

23:41

Yeah. Yeah, that is true. All right. Well, I appreciate you coming in, Adam. And, uh, you know, listen, you're welcome.

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Any, any Thursday night, if you have any questions and want to come in, you know, where to find us at apologetics live .com.

23:54

I should have mentioned that in the beginning. I didn't folks watching this and want to join us. Uh, you could go to apologetics live .com

24:02

.org. Now I'm trying to drop blank. Dot com. I think either one worked, but .com,

24:09

uh, go to either one and, uh, we will, you'll be able to find the links there every week to watch her to join.

24:16

Uh, I'm going to bring in Jeff. We're going to hope, uh, that his microphone will be working. It was not last week.

24:22

Jeff, are you there? Hi. Can you hear me? Excellent. Hey, there we go.

24:27

Now, this is a great example, Jeff in, in God's Providence. Um, even though I'm not sure you believe in God, but in God's Providence, we couldn't get this working last week.

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And there's a whole bunch of people that tell me that I run from debates all week long and hear you disagree with me.

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And we were trying to get you in here so that you can disagree with me publicly in front of everyone.

24:49

That's a strange thing from a guy that runs from debates. I think I would agree. I would agree. And I, I figured out the problem, the, the really expensive

24:58

Bluetooth headphones didn't work. So I switched to these cheap $5 earbuds and they're working fine. All right.

25:04

Well, I'm going to, uh, what I'm going to do. I know that you and I have a discussion. We, we, we were trying to have last week.

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Um, but I'm going to bring in Mr. vocab Malone just so that, uh, cause he is going to be our, uh, apologist here with us tonight.

25:22

Uh, joining with us, I should say. And, uh, so welcome vocab. How are you?

25:27

Hey, I'm doing all right. Andrew, what's going on, man? Good. Now look at that. He's got this big sign with his name over the back.

25:34

Look at that. You know, that's from my, my rapping days, I would have a banner at the table where I sold

25:42

CDs and stuff. So I just kept it. That thing's like, that thing's probably 15 years old.

25:50

All right. Well, I wanted to bring you in. Um, so you're here, but Jeff wanted to challenge me on some of my logic.

25:58

And so, uh, we're going to, we're going to get to hear whether I am illogical or not, we're going to see.

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So, uh, Jeff, what I'll do is I'll let you, if you want, or if I, if you want me to revisit what we had discussed.

26:14

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I need to be super careful not to put words in your mouth. So it would be great if you could give us like the three minute version of your argument again.

26:23

Sure. So here's the three minute version. Basically. I argue that there is an objective way to be able to examine which religions are manmade versus the religions that are divine.

26:34

And so we could categorize all the religions into two categories, right? Either manmade or God made.

26:40

Right. And so the objective standard that I use is to say that men always add their efforts to praise themselves.

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And therefore any manmade religion is going to have human effort involved in it. And there's only one religion that doesn't have human effort.

26:57

That's the, the biblical Christianity. So, okay.

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You have some differing ways. Cause you, you kind of, I think you, you reversed it, which I understood what you did, but my argument is actually that it's the, the core part of the argument is that it's an objective standard.

27:13

Right. Right. I got you. And the in, in, in written form,

27:18

I, I tend to view things through the lens of, of propositional logic. And so that's, that's why

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I asked you for your, your argument in the form of a syllogism. And if we need to modify this, this is fine.

27:32

I'm not trying to nail you down to anything, but the the written form that you gave me and I'll, I'll try to quote it here is quickly is that man always adds his works to manmade religions.

27:44

That's one. Proposition two, Christianity is the only religion that does not include works.

27:51

And therefore the conclusion, Christianity is not manmade. Uh, yeah,

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I think, I think when we, I would have to find this post. Yeah, that's, that's fine. And we can, the apologetics live group that we had.

28:06

Cause I forgot exactly how you asked me to lay out the syllogism and I forget how I did it. But it,

28:13

I mean, essentially you're close. I mean, it's, it's, it would be, I think the difference that I would do is to say that all other religions are manmade because stick with the propositions, that would be the conclusion to it, that other religions are not manmade, that no, that all religions except Christianity would be manmade.

28:35

I'm sorry. I misspoke there. Yeah. Um, other, is that the same thing as saying that Christianity is not manmade?

28:42

Uh, well, if it's, if you have a, if you have only two options, so it's a true dichotomy, if it's not manmade, then by the definition of being a true dichotomy, it would, it would be in the other category, which in this case would be divine.

29:03

Right. So if, if we say that Christianity is not manmade, is that functionally the same as saying

29:09

Christianity is God made? Can we interchange those? Say, say that again.

29:15

Is the statement Christianity is not manmade. Is that, is that the same as saying

29:22

Christianity is God made? Can we enter? Well, I don't know that we could say that definitively only for one reason to say that definitively, we would first have to make the, the proposition that there's a true dichotomy, that there's only two possibilities, right?

29:40

Right. Because otherwise, if there's a third, then we have a fallacy of the excluded middle. Now I would say that there isn't,

29:46

I don't believe there's a third possibility. It's either manmade or divine, but I guess someone could say, well, there's a third.

29:53

It could be satanic. Right. Okay. Okay. Um, and, and so then my argument,

30:01

I guess would say, well, then that if, if someone pitches that, then it wouldn't be a true dichotomy and therefore you couldn't reverse it like you did.

30:09

Okay. So even, even if, even if your, your whole argument is bulletproof, all your, all your premises are sound, the logic follows.

30:18

We, we reached the conclusion that Christianity is not manmade, but that doesn't necessarily get us to Christianity is

30:26

God made, maybe somebody might object to that. I think someone might.

30:31

Um, and, and my argument is that when we look at all the religions, I'm putting them just in those two categories.

30:38

Okay. Uh, cause really the question is which ones are, which one's divine. We, one of the, one of the things we can, and really the goal that I'm having is to try to say that there is a way to evaluate religion outside of a subjective feeling, which is how most people try to say, oh, you're it's everything's about a subjective feeling.

30:58

Okay. All right. Um, so let me, let me give you like the three minute view of my, my three minute view of your argument here, and you can, you can tell me what you think.

31:07

So the conclusion we're after here is that Christianity is not manmade.

31:15

Now, obviously this argument is meant to convince someone who doesn't already believe that, doesn't already agree with that.

31:22

I mean, if, if you're talking to someone who already agrees with the conclusion, why bother making the argument?

31:28

If they, if you see what I'm saying. So these in, in propositional logic, arguments are meant to convince someone of a conclusion that they don't currently agree with, you know, your, your interlocutor isn't, isn't going to agree with your conclusion, but then you set up a series of premises and you walk them through your premises and if they're a rational person, then logic will force them to agree with your conclusion.

31:55

They are rational, but they just may not always think with that side. They don't always give into their rationality.

32:02

That's true. Very true. Most, most people don't most of the time. Yeah. And, and I would see as some other purposes for, for some of the logical arguments though, because you could have a logical argument, not necessarily to try to convince someone that you're right, but to expose someone's wrong or to, to validate something.

32:23

Sure, sure. Absolutely. You know, sort of like we were just talking with the

32:28

Israel only folks that, that we're mentioning when, when you're taking something and you have to, you have to be dishonest about what something says.

32:37

I can evaluate what they say. I could use the logic to examine that and say it's false.

32:44

Right. Yeah. I may not be trying to prove them false with it. I might just look at it and say, okay, here's why it's false.

32:51

Or, or at least prove that their position hasn't been proven true or hasn't been established. Yeah, I'd agree.

32:59

Okay. So I, I see one thing in, in your argument generally that feels really circular to me.

33:06

And it's that if you're, if you're talking to someone who doesn't agree with your conclusion, then, then you might be talking to someone who thinks that Christianity is also a manmade religion and then there's, there's no reason for this person to accept your premise that man will always add his works to manmade religions, like, like man will always add a works -based soteriology to the manmade religions.

33:33

Because, you know, the, the person opposite of your argument is coming to the argument with the belief that, well,

33:39

Christianity is just another manmade religion and it doesn't have works soteriology. So there's an exception to the rule there in your first premise.

33:48

And so the only way to convince that person of the premise is, is to somehow exclude

33:55

Christianity from the group of manmade religions before they get to your premise and before they get to your conclusion.

34:03

So you basically have to convince them of your conclusion before you can get to your conclusion.

34:09

Uh, well, for one thing, I mean, usually what I do is I, I'll ask people whether man, men always add, you know, their own praises to two things.

34:19

And if they're agreeing with that, then they usually don't have a problem with examining it that way.

34:26

Right. Cause we would agree, I think, at least on this premise is that we're either going to have, if, if God created a religion and, and I know you'll have issues with the term religion because you'll think of it as an organized.

34:41

Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Go ahead. But if God created something that he's calling a true religion, if, if there, if you're going to have man or Satan or anything that is going to corrupt it, it's going to be corrupted at the most crucial element that being, how do you get right with God?

34:59

Cause that's what, if you think of religion, that is what it's ultimately about. And if all religions are in the category of morality, because they're all works based, and then you have one that says

35:13

God did all the work and God gets all the credit there, there's a serious distinction there between those two.

35:20

You agree with that? At least. I do agree with that. I mean, Satan doesn't care what kind of crackers you use for the

35:26

Eucharist. You know, he's, if he, you're right. I mean, if he's going to throw things off the rails, he's going to pick the most crucial point.

35:34

Yeah. But the, but the priest might be worried about which crackers. So let me ask you, cause

35:44

I don't even know your, are you, what's your background? I'm, I'm, I'm an atheist. That's, that's probably the most relevant part for, for this discussion.

35:52

Yeah. That's what, and that's what I had assumed, but I wanted to be clear. Yeah. So let me ask you this.

36:00

What would be in your mind? And, and I know that the, the show tonight we want to get to with, with vocab here.

36:07

Um, on something that we want to educate some folks on, but I do want to just ask you, what would you say would be your best argument you think for atheism?

36:16

My best argument for atheism? Um, wow. That's a good one.

36:22

Well, I don't, you know, a lot of atheists are going to say that it's, it's not a positive position, it's a negative position where I'm just,

36:32

I'm just not convinced there's that there's not a God. I'm not saying that there's not a God. And that, that whole thing is pretty hairy.

36:40

I think it, it, it causes, um, a lot of conflict and confusion there.

36:48

I actually, I actually had some notes about that. I'm trying to look up. Well, you know how to get in here for next week.

36:54

If you find the notes later. Um, I mean, if we think about this, would you, so you, you really be more in agnostic camp than it sounds like where you just don't know.

37:07

I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm just not convinced that there is a God. And I think my reasons break down into, into three or four categories.

37:15

It's the, um, the things that I see God doing in the old Testament and the new

37:20

Testament that I find objectionable. And I, I know there's, you know, divine commands theory says that if he's

37:28

God, he can do what he wants. And if he does it, it's automatically right. But it's still hard to get past some of those things.

37:34

When you, when you read some of the stories of the, the violence and the, I don't want to get into detail, but, but some of that is, is just, so there's, there's this moral conflict between my sense of morality and what appears to be

37:48

God's sense of morality, or I don't want to call him a hypocrite, but it kind of looks a little hypocritical.

37:55

So, and, and, you know, for folks who may be watching or listening, uh, notice what

38:02

Jeff is doing, cause he's being very careful with his words. Um, but I think that what you noticed here is, you know, and this is what

38:09

I appreciate you're, you're recognizing that it is your sense of morality that's at stake.

38:18

So would it be fair to say that the, you know, I mean, it sounds like what, what the issue is, you, you feel that your sense of morality should count more than what

38:28

God's sense of justice would be, because the things you, you'd be, if we got into discussing the, the violence you're referring to, it's going to come down to acts of God acting as, as judge and giving justice and sometime uses his creation to meet out that justice.

38:44

Sometimes he just does it. But the fact is more often than not, he's long suffering and not carrying out the justice immediately.

38:52

So would it be fair to say that this is an issue of, uh, what you view is how

38:58

God should behave compared to how, how God views himself or how his justice would be?

39:04

No, no. I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to tell God how he should behave. I mean, he's, he's

39:09

God and I'm just Jeff. You know, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not in a position to, you know, command what

39:15

God should do. I'm just wondering why I find a, why, why I have a problem with it.

39:21

You know, why I can read, you know, uh, first Samuel three, I'm sorry, first Samuel chapter 15, when they slaughter all the

39:30

Amalekite children, why I have a problem with that. I'm not going to tell God it's wrong or he shouldn't do it.

39:36

I'm just saying, I'm just wondering, you know, if, if, if my morality were a good match for God's morality, then

39:45

I guess I should be happy about that. Or I should, I should see some kind of glory in that.

39:52

And I just don't. Was where the Canaanites and Amalekites and these others, were they warned by God that this was coming?

39:59

I'm sure they were. Okay. So, so, I mean, one of the things to think of, and here's the, here's the, uh, here's the thing to think about.

40:09

Um, and, and we're going to end up having to bring vocab in because people are saying they want to get to the black

40:14

Hebrew Israelites, which we're supposed to be focusing on, you get vocab here and everyone wants to see him. No one wants to see me.

40:20

Okay. But here's the thing to think about is just, uh, you know, when you're, when you're making the arguments you're making, the question is, as you said, with logic is not, which seems hypocritical to you or to I it's really, which one is, is true, that's really what we'd have to get down to.

40:42

If, if you live your life and this is where my concern would be for you,

40:48

Jeff, you live your life denying Jesus Christ as God and, and living in rebellion.

40:54

And that doesn't mean you're a rebellious person, always doing as much sin as you can possibly do, but you're not, you have those days.

41:01

Well, you're never, you're not as bad as you probably could be. No, no, no. So the thing though is, is that you, you live that light your life that way.

41:13

The moment you die, which you don't know when that's going to be, you're going to face God on judgment day. And my greatest concern for you is that I don't want you to die and, and receive

41:28

God's justice. I mean, God is a just judge and he's angry at the wicked every day, and he's going to judge everybody.

41:34

And it's either going to be that he judges you for the things you've done in rebellion to him as, as I deserve as well, but the other option is

41:45

God himself who already paid that fine, right. And, and brings us to repentance.

41:52

We receive that gift and that would be the difference. So I would want you to be in that category where you you're receiving eternal life.

42:01

Well, the other option is that God has already predestined me to be unelected and no amount of gospel reading and witnessing is going to change

42:09

God's mind about that. Well, yeah, there's some who might try to make that argument, but that would be true in the mind of God, but not in yours and mine, because we are not

42:20

God. We don't have that infinite knowledge. Do you have knowledge that you are elect and regenerate?

42:28

I would, I would from what the scripture say, what God says about my state. I can look,

42:34

I can look objectively at, you know, some of the changes in my life that are in line with what scripture says would be, which is completely opposite to my nature.

42:46

Okay. So it is possible for a person to know their, to have confidence about their state of grace with God, either elect or unelect, regenerate or unregenerate.

42:59

Uh, say that again in a different way. It's, it, it, it is possible for someone to know with confidence that they're saved.

43:07

Yes. Okay. So is it possible for someone to know with confidence that they're, that they're not regenerate and not elect?

43:13

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, not that they're not elect that in, in time, because in God's mind, he already knows who he, you know, he knows who would be the elect and whatnot.

43:26

Right. Right. In our mind, we, we don't know. Cause we're bound by time. So 10 years from now, might you repent possibly?

43:36

I don't know that. And you don't know that. No, I don't know that either. You could know that as of right now, you would not be.

43:44

I mean, we, we, I can think, I know that. I mean, there are, there are people who are false converts who at the time of their conversion thought they knew that they were regenerate, but 10 years later realized that they never were.

43:58

Correct. So, I mean, if, if, if we stick to that logic, I might have the same confidence that I'm unregenerate, but 10 years later, who knows?

44:09

And, uh, there's, there are people who fool themselves. That is correct. Okay. I'd agree.

44:17

So if you do, if you do get your notes, let come back in. Let's, I mean, I, I enjoy, you know, this is the kind of dialogue, uh, that would be good for Christians and atheists to be able to, to have where we're not.

44:31

Right. I do have my notes in front of me right now. But if you, if you need to move on to another part of the show, that's fine.

44:37

I can come back next Thursday. Yeah. Would you? Absolutely. Great. Thank you,

44:43

Jeff. Thank you, Andrew, for having me on. All right. So I see that wasn't, I wasn't running and you, uh, you know, it wasn't as bad as everyone said it was going to be, huh?

44:55

All right. So vocab. Yes, sir. You and I recently got to actually meet one another for the first time.

45:04

Yeah. In real life. In real life. Yeah. Um, that was pretty cool, man.

45:09

I mean, who would have thought we'd be in New York city and run into each other at a park?

45:17

Well, okay. Maybe it would make sense because the park we were at is a park, very well known where black

45:23

Eurasian lights typically, uh, like to be. Um, and so you looking to have dialogue, that's the park to go to, but it was, it was funny.

45:36

So I just got done doing some open air and I was trying to stand by the guy who was up on the box in case he got stuck with a question and I could beat him an answer to help him.

45:46

And I looked behind me and I saw you and I went, oh, that guy looks an awful lot like vocab Malone, but what would he be doing here in New York?

45:52

Right. So I ignored it until a real Malone, uh, a different Malone, um, comes up and says,

46:00

Hey, you're vocab. And I went, that is vocab. So he actually thought you guys might be brothers of a, another mother, you know, is that the guy that was on your team with the tattoos and stuff?

46:13

Yeah, that was John. John was, he's a good guy, but he's, I heard it. I heard him mention you. And I, that's when

46:18

I looked back and went, oh, that is him. Yeah. He's a cool guy. Yeah. So you guys had a team of people out there in Union Square.

46:28

Yeah. But it was sort of a, I mean, you're the one, you guys had a great team where you were training people on how to do street evangelism and stuff like that.

46:36

The team I had was a little, um, less official. We were at this conference and I, everybody had these different ideas of what they wanted to do.

46:48

And most people wanted to kind of relax. Like guys like, ah, let's go get this, you know, some pizza at this spot.

46:54

Like, look, I don't know about all you guys, what you're doing. I'm going to Times Square and I'm going to see what

47:00

I can see. And the cool thing was, even though some of them didn't want to go, they're like, you know what? We're not going to let you go out there by yourself.

47:06

We'll go with you. So they were, they were like troopers, you know? And so, uh, cause we hadn't eaten.

47:13

So everyone was hungry, but I was like, we just need to leave right now. We'll get something to eat down there. Everyone was worried about other stuff. But my point is they were cool.

47:19

They came along. And, uh, then we, we ran into a, well, we didn't run into this guy.

47:25

This is pre -planned. I have a friend out there, Alfredo. He goes by the Brooklyn apologist. Cool guy, you know, lives around the way, obviously

47:32

Brooklyn apologist. And, uh, he met us up. He met us up at the, at the park. So that's where we were supposed to meet.

47:38

There is a union, but I didn't know you guys are going to be there. No, was that, was that cool? Was that, was that the guy,

47:45

Adam? So Adam that's, he does the true ID podcast and he's my partner in crime and a whole lot of issues.

47:52

We talk almost every day, but he came up from Virginia to the conference,

47:59

Alfredo. He lives obviously in the city, you know what I mean? And he met us there.

48:04

So Adam came with me from the conference, Alfredo. Alfredo was the Puerto Rican cat with the

48:09

Kangle hat on. That was okay. So that was hilarious. We, we, we got to set this up for folks to explain this before we get to some of the black, you were like, so here you, you ended up dealing with a guy, an

48:20

African -American there in, in New York. One of my regular hecklers. And I was cracking up because you guys got to deal with what

48:27

I deal with every week I go out there. And you had one, you guys surrounded two of the regular hecklers,

48:33

Solomon and Jason. Jason can say things that you guys got to experience.

48:40

Like when he said that, you know, Islam is the black man's religion and Islam and Christianity started at the same time, and then he referred, uh, he referred to the

48:53

Hispanic guy as being black and the black guy as being Hispanic. He just was telling everybody what they were with not really much information.

49:04

No, no, it was, it was funny when, uh, Sam Shimon was like, he's like, wait a minute. You think that like Islam was like, started the same time as Christianity.

49:14

That was 600 years later. And he turns, he turns to Sam and goes, you don't know what you're talking about.

49:21

Yeah. Well, he was an interesting guy. His arguments were like, this was just the guy. He was like, Christian is white man's religion.

49:30

Yeah. He's drinking something the whole time and it wasn't what I'm drinking. It was something a little different. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, he came out earlier before you guys got there.

49:37

And, uh, one of the things I always do with Jason is when I get to the park and I'd see him, I'd let him know that I've been praying for him that week.

49:43

It drives him crazy. He actually used to, you know, it took six years before he'd actually shake my hand. And the reason he did was he goes, you're not really praying for me.

49:51

And I opened up my phone and I showed him my prayer list and he actually realized that I pray we've been praying for some of his family members.

49:57

He didn't know. I knew family member had been in, in some trouble and that was the first time he shook my hand.

50:04

But literally when I got there that night, he goes, he goes, I'm not ready to talk to you. I need a couple of drinks first. So yeah,

50:10

I think the alcohol fuels some of this argumentation, but I think it's good.

50:15

I mean, the, the, the real thing is, you know, you're there time after time talking to him, praying for his family.

50:22

I mean, that's, that's like sort of a, the big apologetic, I think with a guy like that. But yeah, he called

50:28

John Hispanic and Alfredo black. So it was all backwards, but you're talking about John McCray. So he was out there. So we had

50:33

Adam Coleman, John McCray, Sam Shamoon, Alfredo.

50:38

And then we were rolling with a Dominican cat friend of mine who's an ex -Hebrew Israelite, Miguel, but he's an atheist.

50:46

And so that was kind of cool for him to hang around. Basically urban apologist to meet some good Christians and kind of see, you know, they're not like what he came out of, which is the

50:55

ICGJC. You know, they're not, they're not, they're not the same, not the same kind of thing going on, you know?

51:01

So I think that was good. So we hung out with him for a little while too. We got a lot of love for that guy and like to see him go from Hebrew Israelism to atheism to belief in Christ.

51:12

So that would be sweet. So before we get into describing what Black Hebrew Israelite is and some of these things, let me just let folks know if they go to apologeticslive .com

51:23

from there, you can get the links to join us. If you want to come in and ask any questions about either, you know, we're talking about with Hebrew Israelism or anything else, but we're going to focus on, and I don't know vocab, what is the term nowadays?

51:39

Because I used to be Black Hebrew Israelites and I had a bunch of them that got upset with me and said, we're not

51:44

Black. We're not Black. Do I look Black? I'm Brown. And they said, we're Hebrew Israelites. And then this week

51:49

I heard the term Negro Hebrew Israelites. And I was told that that's the term

51:54

I'm supposed to use. So it's like changing. So it's like this.

52:01

If you study the history of this thing, you'll see there was a time where a lot of the groups were okay with calling themselves names like Black Jews or that's more the mainstream groups.

52:16

Hey, shout out to Lily R for the Super Chat, by the way. She hooked you up. She's a great, she's actually there in Brooklyn.

52:21

Lily's from Brooklyn. That's awesome. She just, she's blessed the channel with the Super Chat. But hopefully next time

52:28

I get to see her. We didn't get to see her this time. But if you study the movement, the old school, more mainstream guys would call themselves

52:36

Black Jews. And then we've also got even the

52:41

One West style camps that we deal with, which are the guys who tend to be out on the street yelling and stuff like that.

52:48

They used to call themselves Black Hebrew Israelites or Black Israelites, but they don't now.

52:54

They don't like that terminology. In fact, some of them actually say that it's racist, which

53:01

I think is silly and unfounded. But I don't really go with any of that.

53:07

But it's not still what they want. So we try to focus not on the groups of people, but the ideology itself,

53:16

Andrew. So what I try to say as often as possible is Hebrew Israelism. Hebrew Israelism.

53:23

And that's even a little more generous than actually what the secular scholars call it. The secular scholar, the main guy is a guy named

53:29

Jacob Dorman. I'm not sure if he's Jewish. I know he's secular, clearly. He's a scholar who's studied some of this, even for his

53:38

PhD work. He calls it Black Israelism. That's what he calls it.

53:43

And I think that's what you'll see in a lot of the academic literature. I tend to go with Hebrew Israelism.

53:50

And the reason is, is because that puts the emphasis on the fact that it's an ideology. Now, they still don't like that.

53:56

Most of them, a lot of them still don't like us saying Hebrew Israelism. That's not what they're about.

54:04

And it makes it a little clumsy because sometimes you end up saying things like adherence to Hebrew Israelism or people who believe in Hebrew Israelism, something like that.

54:12

But that way you don't have to deal with it. But when I talk about it, yeah, so there's a

54:17

Hebrew's light in the live chat. They're saying there's no such thing as Hebrew Israelism. Well, that doesn't really make sense,

54:23

Ellie. What do you mean there's no such thing? How is it there's no such thing? I can tell you how there is such a thing.

54:30

It's an ideology that involves a group of people believing a certain thing.

54:36

And the ideology is based upon non -traditional identifying marks to identify an ethnicity.

54:44

And the main non -traditional mark that Hebrew Israelites use is actually scriptural basis.

54:50

Nobody determines their ethnicity from scripture. That's a religious claim. Your ethnicity really is sort of a biological thing about you.

55:00

And so the reason why it makes sense to call it Hebrew Israelism is it emphasizes the fact that it's an ideology. Now, you've bought into the ideology, perhaps that's why you don't like the term.

55:10

So you don't think that's what it is. You probably would say, well, that's just a culture. That's just our way of life.

55:15

Yeah, see that. You just made a comment. You said we are Israelites. Exactly what I was saying. But you have to understand.

55:21

I don't know if you're a brother or sister. You know, by that I mean male or female. But when you're saying you're an

55:28

Israelite, the way you do that, if you hold to Hebrew Israelism, is not the normal traditional way that any person ever living would determine their ethnicity.

55:41

What I mean is you'll go into a holy text, the Bible, and you'll say, look at this.

55:46

This applies to me. Therefore, you make a religious claim to identify your ethnicity. That's not how people have ever determined their ethnicity, because that's not the way you find out that kind of information.

55:59

So that's why it's Hebrew Israelism. So I understand you don't like the term, but since it's a term of contention, the fact that you guys believe you're

56:06

Hebrew Israelites, whenever I do use it, I always put it, if I can help it,

56:12

I almost always put it in quotation marks. Quotation marks, they signify not necessarily whether something is true or not.

56:22

So when I put it in quotation marks, I'm not making a value judgment per se. But I am showing that the term is contested, meaning you're claiming this about yourself, but that's what the whole debate is about.

56:33

Are you really a Hebrew Israelite? And of course, this is what scholars call, and I don't know if you've really looked into the literature on this,

56:40

Ellie, and I'm not trying to say this offensive, but secular scholars call what Hebrew Israelites believe, there's a technical term they use for it, and they call it an imagined community.

56:50

And again, I'm not trying to be pernicious or anything, but that's actually, now this is the secular side of academia who studies this.

56:58

They call what you hold to an imagined community. And I don't necessarily really disagree. It is an imagined community, meaning you imagine there's a community based upon something that is not actually factual.

57:10

And so there's some truth to that. But Andrew, what

57:17

I try to do is at least play ball to an extent. So the only time I use the term Black Hebrew Israelite or something like that is usually in the title of something if it's necessary to convey, because a lot of people still don't know the group by any other term.

57:34

And so sometimes it's necessary in the title. That still bothers people when I get that. For example, the title of my book has it in there.

57:40

But if you read the book, I don't think I say it like the whole rest of the book. I always say

57:46

Hebrew Israelites. So I try to have some compromise, but it's not enough that's going to make them happy.

57:55

But I tend to just go with Hebrew Israelites as a rule, say Hebrew Israelites. Generally speaking, sometimes, like I said, in the title,

58:02

I might do it. But most people know if you say Hebrew Israelites and put in quotations, they start to understand what you're talking about.

58:09

And here's why people that are Hebrews or Israelites, they never call themselves

58:14

Hebrew Israelites. So it's a strange term that no one who's Jewish or Hebrew actually calls himself.

58:20

So it's kind of a cue that it's a little bit different, first of all, because it's a Hebrew Israelite, you know what I'm saying? But then when you put in quotation marks, it's even further evidence and you don't have to put black or brown or anything like that.

58:30

But I will say this last thing, Andrew, some Hebrews like to play a game. They'll say, don't call us black

58:37

Hebrews Israelites, we're Hebrews Israelites. And then they'll come back when they want to attack me, because a lot of times sometimes they can't answer arguments.

58:46

I'm not saying none of them, but sometimes when they can't, they become frustrated and they'll say, well, the real thing is vocab is that you hate black people.

58:55

Notice the switch. We're not black Hebrews Israelites, so don't call us that. But yet if I'm deemed as an opponent to their movement, it's because I dislike black people.

59:03

Well, hold on. I thought it wasn't a black thing. I thought that wasn't the crux of what you are.

59:09

How is it now an attack to come back and say, but also they really can't decide how they want to attack me because the other common thing they'll say to a guy like me is vocab wants to be black so bad.

59:18

Well, again, though, if I want to be black so bad. How's that go with the fact that Hebrew Israelites is not necessarily a black thing?

59:26

So there's a lot of confusion in that. But we're in the formative stage of dealing with this,

59:34

Andrew, and so that's why it's sort of an up and down thing. The thing you said where someone's called himself a

59:39

Negro Hebrews, I've never heard that before. All I've heard is this. Sometimes you'll get

59:46

Hebrew Israelites who want to make sure that when you discuss the color of like a biblical patriarch or something like that,

59:52

Andrew, they don't want to have you just say they're dark. So, for example, if I say

59:59

I'm most certain that Samson, I'm just naming a guy, was dark skinned, it's highly likely he was dark skinned.

01:00:09

A Hebrew Israelite, a lot of times that's not good enough for them. If you say dark or all over muddy or anything like that, none of that's good.

01:00:17

So they'll say, well, did Samson have Negroid features? Sometimes they'll say that and what they're trying to get at is a specific phenotype that's traditionally associated because of genetics and history and a whole bunch of other reasons with people who are of African descent.

01:00:31

So it's weird. Again, they switch back and forth. They'll say Negroid features, which is actually a really old term based upon a lot of racist evolutionist studies where they would study your cranial size and say it determines your intellect and all these kind of weird things.

01:00:45

Some of these early evolutionists, primarily evolutionists, would get into and they use some of the same terminologies and stereotypes to prop up some of their positions.

01:00:54

So I just try to call out some of the inconsistencies, but do it in love. I understand it's a very sensitive issue.

01:01:01

And this is the last thing I'll say. The reason why it's so sensitive, Andrew, is because they're dealing with identity.

01:01:07

And when you start talking about identity, that's very near and dear to a man and woman. It's very important to a man and woman.

01:01:13

And so they care a lot about what term is being used to describe them. And I try to at least

01:01:19

I understand where they're coming from, because it deals with what they've perceived as this newfound identity.

01:01:25

Now, the sad thing is it's usually mistaken. And the problem is they take this mistaken identity and then draw out fallacious equation, fallacious implications and fallacious application.

01:01:36

But nonetheless, I'm empathetic to the plight because it has to do with finding identity that's valuable.

01:01:43

The problem is, though, they're bypassing what they're bypassing the solution. The solution is the gospel and the solution is to have identity in Christ.

01:01:50

And Christ does not erase your ethnicity. He magnifies and redeems it and utilizes it for his glory, but then puts you with a bunch of other people who are sons of Adam, but may not be part of the same tribal group or people group as you and makes you a new family.

01:02:06

It's almost like the new race in a way, you know, Gentile Jew, Christian. So it's very interesting, the beauty of what

01:02:14

Christianity and the church can do that preserves the beauty of our individual, distinct ways that God made us and yet puts us in this new thing called the body of Christ.

01:02:22

And there's our identity to be found as we are disciples of Christ together. Hebrew Israelism just really bypasses all that and goes to some to a shoddy to a shoddy source for identity.

01:02:34

But nonetheless, I'm empathetic to the plight. So for folks who may not be familiar with Hebrew Israelism, I'm going to start trying to change over to that.

01:02:45

I want to use the term that I'm not don't want to be mocking to people when I use. But for folks who don't know,

01:02:54

I mean, let's bring them up to speed because there may be some people we do have some people here in chat that might want to join and we can have a discussion.

01:03:02

It might be kind of interesting with some of these people that are challenging some of the stuff being said on race, saying that, implying that race has to do more with economic status and having power over others.

01:03:16

But, you know, this is an idea that they believe that the

01:03:21

Africans were the Israelites that came over in the

01:03:27

African slave trade. The one passage I know that they all will go to is the passage in Deuteronomy.

01:03:36

I can pull it up. I could read it or you probably have it memorized by now. But in Deuteronomy 20, 28, the last verse of 28 or 68, it says, and the

01:03:49

Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again.

01:03:55

And there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female servants.

01:04:01

But there will be no buyers. Now, some of the issues here. I understand I'm reading out of an

01:04:07

ESV and many of them will only be except KJV. But what they do with this is they say, see, only the

01:04:14

Africans were slaves on that came over by ships. And they take that one word ship literal.

01:04:22

And the argument that they make is to say that everyone else wouldn't be an Israelite.

01:04:28

And I should give a shout out here. Someone just gave $10 Super Chat to say, love you, vocab.

01:04:36

God bless you both. And I'll take this moment to just announce for folks who need to know the

01:04:44

Super Chats. They go to CARM .org. And that helps us with basically the arrangement we have is they get the

01:04:52

Super Chats and all that. And that helps and that they allow us to advertise and use their

01:04:58

YouTube channel because basically they can monetize. And so if you want to support

01:05:03

Striving for Eternity, who actually puts on the show, you can go to strivingforeternity .org slash donate.

01:05:09

And that's how you could help us out. But there's a Super Chat that was given for the love for vocab.

01:05:18

But the argument that they make vocab, and you're very well aware of this, is they make the argument that this is the only group of people that were that were sent over in ships to slavery.

01:05:30

But I mean, when you look at this, and you and I've dealt with this passage plenty of times,

01:05:35

I've done some debates with folks on this, but the reality is that's the only word they want to take literal. Everything else they want to take figurative.

01:05:42

Egypt doesn't mean Egypt. It means slavery. The fact that they sell themselves as slaves and there's no buyers, they ignore that altogether.

01:05:51

And so what you end up seeing is they take what they want to be literal.

01:05:57

They take everything else. They just say, oh, that's figurative. But this is really the key verse for them, is the fact that they believe that they are true

01:06:13

Israelites that we see in the Old Testament. And to Nate2D2, he says,

01:06:27

Andrew, are you going to freestyle it when we get 50 up in the super chat? I will be happy to let vocab do it.

01:06:35

Vocab does way better than I do. Because that's what we do on the channel.

01:06:41

That's what he's asking. And you're bringing this up. Here's a perfect question. Someone's saying,

01:06:46

Andrew, I'm not really Jewish, by the way, that they'll claim this, right? I mean, as a kind of,

01:06:53

I can never pronounce it properly, but as an Assi Jew, brought in ships and enslaved. Well, where were they?

01:07:00

I would tell you where. They were sold themselves as slaves in a land called

01:07:06

Egypt, just like the text says. During both the

01:07:12

Babylonian and Assyrian captivities, they fled. Many Jews fled and they went to Egypt.

01:07:19

And the one way to get a job, because that's what it would need, they would try to sell themselves as slaves.

01:07:29

And so that is what did actually happen. And people did go there, even though they could go by land.

01:07:37

Yes, people would also go by ship. And I guess someone really wants me to freestyle because someone just -

01:07:42

Oh, Roxby. Wow. Yeah, Roxby gave a super chat of $50. So thank you very much for that.

01:07:47

She's part of the Street Apologist squad. And then within that, she's even part of something tighter that I call the core, but they like to call the matrix.

01:07:58

I don't know. They've developed, the people that are down with the channel, they've basically developed their own culture that I'm partially responsible for.

01:08:06

And then partially I'm not responsible. They're really awesome. And you can tell how they be showing love and stuff.

01:08:14

And so shout out to Roxby, everybody else. And they're just a lot of fun. And they love the

01:08:20

Lord. So they're great to be around. Mention the channel so other folks can - Oh, yeah, yeah. YouTube .com

01:08:26

slash vocabalone, YouTube .com slash vocabalone. And all across any social media from Periscope, which apparently no one uses anymore, to Facebook, Instagram, to Snapchat, which

01:08:37

I don't really use, to Twitter. It's just at vocabalone. And also we have at Street Apologist.

01:08:43

So there's two main social media sources. But actually, Andrew, if I could bring up something real quick.

01:08:52

First of all, it's weird to say the Ashkenazi Jews, because what they're trying to say is

01:08:57

Ashkenazi Jews don't fulfill the curses. There's a few problems with the question and the argument.

01:09:03

One is, the Bible never says you have to fulfill all these curses in order to be my people.

01:09:11

What I mean by that is there's no place you can show me in Scripture or the Bible, anybody.

01:09:17

Listen to this. This is important, Hebrews lights, where God says, when you forget your ethnicity or your identity, and I'm paraphrasing, it could be anything like this, go to Deuteron 28 to find out who you really are.

01:09:30

There's no evidence that Deuteron 28 is supposed to be used as sort of a scriptural DNA test that you guys use it as.

01:09:38

That's a big problem you have because you're misusing Deuteron 28 in the first place. Number two,

01:09:44

Deuteron 28 is filled with these awful curses that will befall Israel for her disobedience. One of the biggest ones you teach, your religion teaches, is that they'll forget who they are in their ethnicity.

01:09:58

They will no longer know who they are. Guess what? Deuteron 28, the very place you go to, does not include a curse that says you will lose your ethnic identity or anything like that.

01:10:12

Again, I'm not asking for exact verbiage. I'd be very flexible in how it could be said, but there's no indication in the curses that one of them would be, you'll forget who you are.

01:10:23

So that's a problem. Then we specifically talk about Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews do not account for all of modern

01:10:30

Jewry. They account for some and sometimes the most prominent, especially in Western culture.

01:10:35

That's true. But there's all kinds of folks in modern

01:10:41

Jewry, Jews from Yemen, Jews from Iraq, Jews in Egypt.

01:10:47

The list goes on and on and on, Sephardic Jews. We just go on and on and on. And you realize not all the

01:10:55

Jews in the 21st century would look like a Jerry Seinfeld or a Larry David or a

01:11:00

Woody Allen. You see what I'm saying? They're not all going to look like that. Those are the Jews who ended up going through Europe, but all the

01:11:06

Jews didn't go through Europe. Now, again, this is all irrelevant to salvation, but since Hebrewsites want to talk about this, this is what you end up talking about because it's so important to them.

01:11:14

So they ask this question, but now I'll finish with this, Andrew. The Apocrypha in the related books, we don't look at them as wholly writ, but they sometimes have things that are historically accurate, important, true to know.

01:11:33

Correct. One of the books written in the intertestamental period between the Old and New Testament during what's called

01:11:39

Second Temple Judaism is Third Maccabees. I'm going to read now from Third Maccabees chapter four, starting with verse nine, going down to verse 12.

01:11:51

And the reason I'm going to read this is to show that what he's asking, it already happened.

01:11:58

And you don't have to leapfrog to the transatlantic slave trade. You can just go to the intertestamental non -canonical books.

01:12:05

And I'm going to read one right now. Third Maccabees four, verse nine. They were driven like animals constrained by the power of iron chains.

01:12:14

Some were fastened by the neck to the ship's benches. Some were secured by their feet with unbreakable shackles.

01:12:21

Moreover, they were plunged into total darkness due to thick planks positioned above them so that they would receive the treatment due traders throughout the entire voyage.

01:12:31

When these people had been brought to the place called Shedia and the voyage was finished, just as the king had decreed,

01:12:38

Ptolemy ordered the captives to be encamped on the outskirts of the city in the race course.

01:12:45

The stadium had been built with an immense perimeter, was very well placed for providing a public spectacle to all those returning home to the city and to those setting out from the city and to the country for a trip abroad.

01:12:55

The captives had no communication at all with king's forces, nor were they considered worthy of the protection of the city wall.

01:13:02

When this was done, the king heard that their fellow Jews were frequently going forth from the city in secret to express sympathy for the shameful misery of their kindred.

01:13:15

That's just one place. There's other places we see in actual Israelite history where there is some kind of slavery and in this one there's ships even involved.

01:13:26

That's not the only one. We could read others. The point is the transatlantic slave trade is too late to even qualify.

01:13:33

But again, remember all the other stuff I said, that was never given as a precondition to determine who's an Israelite or anything like that.

01:13:40

And not only that, but we had someone in the chat earlier who was saying, I think it was Ba HaShem, I don't remember who it was.

01:13:47

So I don't remember who it was. So if it's you, I'm sorry, if it's not you, but someone was saying vocab is acting like there's not

01:13:54

Hispanic and Native American Hebrew Israelites. No, I wasn't acting like that. I know that the

01:13:59

One West groups include them. By the way, the non -One West groups don't though. They don't have a 12 tribes chart and they don't include the groups that One Westers include.

01:14:09

So there's a division within Hebrew Israelism regarding that. But to the groups that do include Native Americans and Hispanics, they have a problem with Deuteronomy 2868 because it's very difficult to show that this kind of thing that you're looking for ever happened to Native Americans and Hispanics.

01:14:28

Now, I know some of the places they'll try to go to and say, oh, vocab isn't what he's talking about. But it's not like the transatlantic slave trade.

01:14:34

And that's important because sometimes when you guys argue with an Irishman out in the street, the Irishman, by the way,

01:14:39

I don't recommend using this argument. There's a few reasons. One is I think it shows lack of empathy. The other, there's problems with it.

01:14:47

I just wouldn't use this argument. But have it your way. Sometimes the Irish guy will say, oh, well, you know, the

01:14:54

Irish were slaves, too. And a lot of times the Hebrews will say, you know, first of all, they'll say that's a myth.

01:15:00

Other times they'll say you can't compare that to the transatlantic slave trade. They'll say something like that. My point is that if we're going to do that to whatever was going on with the

01:15:07

Irish, you know, that situation for that amount of time, if you're going to minimize that, then how can you also try to put whatever happened to Native Americans regarding slavery or Hispanics in the same category as a transatlantic slave trade?

01:15:19

You can't do one and not the other, is my point by saying all that. Now, I know a lot of what I just said in non -charitable

01:15:25

Hebrews like will try to twist it into something that I'm not saying, but I only said what I said. And I said it specific unless I made a slip or a gaffe

01:15:31

I'm not aware of, because there's a lot of pitfalls they try to get you on with this, Andrew, to change the subject. But I think me reading that is very important.

01:15:39

And anybody can look it up. The information is there. And there's other passages like that. Transatlantic slave trade is a horrible injustice crime, but it is not evidence anyone's in Israelite.

01:15:49

And you guys just got to deal with it. You've got the wrong religion straight up. That's what's up.

01:15:55

Yeah, I mean, the thing that I find is that really infuriates them is, you know, my family, you know, my dad has a book on the rap reports.

01:16:05

It goes all the way back. There's the genealogy that goes back. When I got bar mitzvahed,

01:16:10

I had to be able to go back and know several generations back. I don't remember them anymore because I really didn't care.

01:16:18

But the fact is, is that the Jewish line, they purposely force people to memorize.

01:16:24

What you said is so important because this is the key. People have to realize that the way we understand genealogy is by your parents and their parents and their parents.

01:16:36

And Israelite is one of the 12 tribes. So you have 12 tribes that come from Israel, Jacob, that got renamed

01:16:45

Israel. And so if your family, if your line goes back to that, that is what makes you an

01:16:51

Israelite as far as your ethnicity. So what drives them nuts is when

01:16:57

I say, well, I'm a Levi. Why? Because my family line goes back to Levi. That's like, well, what proof do you have?

01:17:06

Genealogy. Like, what proof do you have? Because the simple reality is there's very, very, very few people that suffered through the

01:17:14

African slave trade that can go back and give their genealogy. I mean, maybe, you know,

01:17:19

Alex Haley, who wrote the book Roots. Why? Because it was so important to Kunta Kinte, who came over here, that his basically all his children, he made his children and their children and so on and so on, made them know who his family was, where he was from, what tribe he was.

01:17:40

He made them do that. But very few of the African slaves that after generations could be able to do that.

01:17:49

They cannot trace their line back. In fact, they can't even go by their last name or any kind of naming because most of them took on their master's names.

01:17:58

Now to that, no doubt, but we should also remember to bring up. That's true with tons of ethnic groups, especially in America.

01:18:07

So, for example, a bunch of Sicilians came over here. They would be

01:18:12

Rossetti, for example, and they Ellis Island, they would drop the ethnic element to their name.

01:18:19

They became Ross. Their connection to Sicily is cut off in a lot of ways, unless somebody knew.

01:18:26

It's like, we're Italian, but I don't know where anymore. This kind of stuff is happening all over. And so very few people in the world can really go back to a certain level.

01:18:38

And that's why Titus 3 .9 says avoid endless genealogies. The Heber's lights, the one

01:18:45

Westers at least, go out in the street and hold up a chart or two that all it is is an endless claim about genealogy.

01:18:52

And so there's some challenges there. It's interesting. I knew somebody was going to do this,

01:18:58

Andrew. And, you know, again, all respect. Bahashem Yeshua, I believe, is the one who did it.

01:19:07

Yeah, yeah. He dropped it again. If it's a he, I don't I don't know who's who, but drop Jeremiah 17 for I was going to bring that up.

01:19:15

Now, here's why he did that. When I said Deuteronomy 28 contains no evidence that the

01:19:20

Israelites will lose their ethnic identity. He's dropping in Jeremiah 17 for as a way to say the Bible does say they'll lose their ethnic identity.

01:19:27

A few things with that. Number one, it's not in the curses. Number two, it's way, way, way later.

01:19:33

Right. That you're over, you're going to lose your mind. Number three, that's not what it's talking about.

01:19:39

So when you bring up Jeremiah 17 for in the ESV, and I know they're like the KJV and some apologists debate about this.

01:19:45

Some apologists say, well, the Hebrews like to use the KJV, use the KJV. I have a different philosophy.

01:19:51

My philosophy is use a better translation. Expose them to it. So they know what a more modern translation looks like on these issues.

01:20:01

Then if they want to discuss the KJV, you can, but be aware, maybe sometimes some of the differences, but in this case, it's not actually that relevant as a

01:20:08

Jeremiah 17 for an ESV says, you shall loosen your hand from your heritage that I gave to you.

01:20:14

And I'll make you serve your enemies in a land that you do not know. I emphasize land because that's what's important.

01:20:21

So let's go back a little bit. Let's start with the beginning of Jeremiah 17. The sin of Judah is written with a pin of iron.

01:20:28

The point of diamond, it is engraved in the tablet of their heart and in the horns of their altars with the children, remembering their altars in their

01:20:33

Asheron besides every green tree and on high hills of the mountains of the tree. Number one, this is only talking about Judah.

01:20:40

So he wants to use this to say the Israelites will forget their ethnic identity. Well, I guess if it worked, it would work for one tribe.

01:20:47

Now you may say, well, let's do the whole Southern kingdom that's left at that point. Okay. Well, I guess that would work with what? Two and a half tribes at that point.

01:20:54

Judah, Benjamin, and sometimes they say there's some other mix. Okay. But it wouldn't work for everybody if it worked as a proof text, but it doesn't.

01:21:01

Here's why your wealth and all your treasures I will give for spoil is the price of your high places for sin throughout all your territory.

01:21:09

You shall loosen your hand from your heritage that I gave you. What is the heritage in this case? It's the land.

01:21:15

That's the heritage. That's the inheritance. And notice right before it mentions your territory.

01:21:21

And then right after it says, you'll serve your enemies in a land you do not know. That's the hint that it deals with the land.

01:21:27

Now it is true. The land was connected to the promises. So that's true. The land promise is sort of a promise that ties into other things.

01:21:36

But the point by emphasizing that is that it's not ethnicity.

01:21:42

And guess what? The Hebrew word, the Hebrew word proves it.

01:21:49

It proves it. Let's, I think, well, I'll say it gives evidence for it. I'll say it that way. So we go to heritage and we go to inheritance and see what it is.

01:21:59

And in Hebrew, I'm looking it up. Nahalah, inalienable hereditary property.

01:22:12

That's what it means. Now, when you look at the examples of where the same word is used.

01:22:19

Genesis 31, 14. Is there any portion or inheritance left to us in our father's house?

01:22:25

Rachel and Leah answered. That's not their ethnicity. Genesis 48, 6.

01:22:36

They shall be called by the name of the brothers in their inheritance. That's not about ethnicity either.

01:22:42

Exodus 15, 17. Um, where's it? Where's the word at? Will you bring them in?

01:22:49

Oh, they translated different English. So it's not clear there. But I have a whole list I could go through where that same

01:22:55

Hebrew word is used. For example, Numbers 18, 20. And the Lord said to Aaron, you shall have no inheritance in their land.

01:23:03

You shall know, nor shall you have any portion among them. I'm your portion, your inheritance among the people of Israel.

01:23:09

That's to the Levites. That same Hebrew word is clearly talking about their piece of land there. It doesn't have anything to do with their ethnicity.

01:23:17

Numbers 18, 23 to 24 says the same thing. Numbers 26. Uh, I'm sorry.

01:23:22

I'm sorry. 18, 26 says the same thing. Numbers 26, 53, 54 says the same thing.

01:23:27

And verse 56 and verse 62 of the same chapter. And Numbers 27, 7 through 11. And Numbers 32, 18 through 19 and verse 32 of the same chapter.

01:23:36

And Numbers 33, 54. And Numbers 34, 2. As well as verse 14 and 15.

01:23:43

And Numbers 35, 2. As well as verse 8 of the same chapter. And Numbers 36, 2 through 4.

01:23:48

And verses 7, 9, 12 of the same chapter. We could go on and on. The point is, it means a piece of property.

01:23:54

So I understand they turn there. And I'm trying to answer somewhat confidently or forcefully.

01:24:00

Not as disrespect. Notice I didn't say anything disrespectful to you. To help you really see that that is not a good proof text.

01:24:07

To show the Israelites will lose their inheritance. Because that word there means a piece of land in the

01:24:13

Hebrew. It does not mean your ethnic identity. So why did you turn to Jeremiah 17?

01:24:19

For it's a tacit admission that the curse. That they'll lose their ethnic identity. It's not in Deuteronomy 28.

01:24:25

It's a tacit admission. Because you're basically saying, well, you're right. It's not in Deuteronomy 28, but it's over here.

01:24:31

But guess what? It's not over there. But this is what you often see that they'll do.

01:24:37

Even with the Deuteronomy passage. Their key element of interpretation is from Isaiah.

01:24:45

Line upon line, precept upon precept. And the only part they actually focus on. And even that is here a little, there a little.

01:24:51

Because that's how they think we have to interpret. Is to grab a little from here, grab a little from there. They say, often

01:24:57

I hear you don't read the Bible like a novel. That's not how you're supposed to do it. And while you were talking, we got some super chats here.

01:25:06

From Lily, Lily R said, guess we're doing that freestyle. She gave $19 .99

01:25:12

and then gave another $11 .02 to second freestyle unlock.

01:25:20

We also got Jason Manning, who is a regular here, gave $5. How about the

01:25:25

BHI get around or how do the BHI get around Romans 1 .16?

01:25:31

Thanks, praise God. Here's what I think you should do vocab, because clearly I can't even do a beatbox.

01:25:38

Because I've watched people do that. Yeah, that's about it. So I think you should do some freestyle and answer how they, how

01:25:46

Hebrew Israelitism would get around Romans 1 .16. How's that for a challenge?

01:25:52

Well, part of the problem is I don't know music. I can offer the beatbox.

01:25:59

I know that. I guess it'd be an acapella or something like that. Unless, I don't know, unless there's a way

01:26:05

I could play it. Someone is saying they need some bars from me.

01:26:13

They really don't know how bad I am. Is that all I could do? Yeah, I, well,

01:26:20

I don't know if I play something on my end, it doesn't show up on your end, will it? If I play a sound, can you hear it?

01:26:26

Uh, probably not unless it's going through your computer or send me the link for it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put up the, uh, here's the verse though that, uh, that they're talking about.

01:26:38

Well, I mean, I'll look for a beat right now and see if we can, if I can get you something.

01:26:44

So I'm cool with doing that. But let me give the, let me see if you can hear this. Let's see.

01:26:55

I'm not hearing anything right now. Okay, so I'd have to send it directly to you. Maybe that would work.

01:27:01

That's hard to beat. I mean, it'll be acapella, but, uh, the, it goes like this. So with, with Romans 1 16, um, it depends on the

01:27:10

Hebrew Israelite. If we're dealing with a one Wester, they're going to say those Greeks in that passage are not actually ethnic

01:27:18

Greeks. They would say that those are Jews who are living like Greeks.

01:27:23

And so their answer, if there are one Wester would be, well, yeah, first you deal with the actual

01:27:29

Hebraic Israelites. Then after that, you deal with the Hellenized Jews of the day.

01:27:35

So they basically, they look at it as saying the one Westers, I'm not ashamed of the gospel, which the gospel is.

01:27:42

We're going to kick the other nation's butts in the kingdoms for, is the power of God for salvation. Salvation is being saved from our wicked oppressors to everyone who believes, meaning every

01:27:53

Israelite who believes to the Jew. That's the Hebraic Israelites. And also to the Greek, that's the

01:27:58

Hellenized Israelites. That's how they would take that verse. A non -one

01:28:03

Wester Hebraeite would do this though. They would say, a non -Hebraic

01:28:09

Israelite would say, um, they would say, yeah, to our people first, then actual

01:28:19

Gentiles, heathen nations, they hear the gospel second and they can be grafted in. But it's basically, honestly, a lot of them say, as long as they know their place.

01:28:27

Sometimes they actually say stuff like that. So, um, the non -one West Hebraeite would, would make it as actual

01:28:34

Gentiles. Cause I think, um, someone in the chat was saying, hey, guess what? You Gentiles can be saved.

01:28:41

Someone was saying that. I saw someone say, and so what they're trying to say is, hey, you know, salvation comes through us and all this, you know, but you, but if you're not an

01:28:50

Israelite, you can get it too. You just got to be grafted in. And sometimes they'll use phrases like you have to cleave or cling to an

01:28:57

Israelite. So that would mean practically that you have to get taught or discipled or mentored by someone who's perceived to be an

01:29:03

Israelite. And you yourself could never teach someone who's perceived to be an Israelite. And you could only teach other

01:29:08

Gentiles. And you just have to know your role within the situation. You know what I mean?

01:29:14

That's, that's kind of like how they would, they would say, if they're not a one Wester, because there's a division within Hebrew Israelism.

01:29:19

But the thing is, even their understanding of salvation of gospel is warped because it's an alchemy, meaning it's, it's works plus something else, which is really no gospel at all.

01:29:30

You know? Well, okay. So let, for some folks who, who may not know, and I know we got someone at one, one of the guys is asking about Luke one 71.

01:29:40

And there is someone who's, I don't know. I asked in the private chat, whether he has questions for you, but we'll bring him in.

01:29:46

I don't know what his questions may be, but you keep mentioning different groups.

01:29:52

And so some folks may be going one Wester, what's that? You know, all these explained just real briefly for folks who may not know.

01:30:02

Kind of the makeup of these Hebrew Israelites that there's so many,

01:30:07

I mean, there's a ton of different groups. I know I can't keep them all straight. I don't know how you do, but it's like anything.

01:30:13

I like, for example, people may not know about much about Islam, but once they start studying

01:30:19

Islam a little bit, they hear, oh, so there's, there's Salafi and there's, well, actually the big division, they would say there's

01:30:27

Sunni and there's Shia. And then within Sunni, there's different kinds as well. One of them would be Salafi. And those are the more conservative, you know, people call them radical, but they're the more traditional in how they interpret the text.

01:30:39

But there's also other styles of Muslims as well, such as Sufi, you know, kind of the mystical sect.

01:30:46

So people, you know, it's like after a while, you know, same thing with this. So when I say one

01:30:51

West, that's not a specific group per se. That's an ideology within Hebrew Israelism.

01:30:59

Here's what I mean by that. Let me give a rough analogy. Here's Protestant Christianity, right? That's not a denomination per se.

01:31:05

There's Protestant Christian denominations, but Protestant Christianity is just an ideology within what sometimes people call

01:31:12

Christendom. So here's Protestant Christianity. Then there's different understandings.

01:31:17

One would be Reformed, which Andrew and I would be. Another might be Anglican. But then there's different Anglican denominations.

01:31:25

But there's Anglicanism. So within Reformed, Reformed's not a denomination either. It's an understanding of the overall view of the scriptures.

01:31:35

Then there's Reformed denominations. So the Presbyterian Church of America, not the

01:31:40

PCUSA, the OPC, the Reformed Baptists who aren't really a denomination per se.

01:31:45

They don't do that, but they associate with each other. Acts 29, on most people's understanding, some purists would not put them there, but you get the idea.

01:31:54

With that being said, imagine Hebrew -Israelism. And then imagine a strand that comes out of Chicago, a strand that comes out of Harlem.

01:32:04

And out of the strand that comes out of Harlem, there's one called One West. And the reason is because they at one time were together.

01:32:12

Now they're not. But at one time they were together at an address called One West, 125th Street. And if you want to know more about the actual address and the relevance,

01:32:19

I actually put up a few videos when I was in New York, where I went to one, where I went to the location of the old school, did some videos there and talked a little bit about it.

01:32:27

So because they all come out of that school, now there's dozens of groups that descend ideology from One West.

01:32:33

Some of them don't even know what One West is or claim it, but yet you know by their distinctives. And so when I say One West, it's the group that people would view more militant or radical or something like that.

01:32:44

But, you know, those terms I don't find very helpful because it's sort of a relative in a sense. What does it mean to be militant and all that stuff?

01:32:50

They're the groups who deny salvation for anyone other than an Israelite.

01:32:56

But they're also, so they're exclusive in that way, but they're inclusive in another way that the other groups aren't. And that they include

01:33:01

Hispanics folks and Native American folks. Whereas the other groups would say, yeah, Gentiles can be grafted in.

01:33:08

But a lot of times they won't have Native Americans and Latinos, for example, as being Israelites in the first place.

01:33:13

So One West is the guys who are out in the street that I tend to deal with more. So I try to differentiate between One West and what other group

01:33:20

I'm talking about. But the thing is growing, Andrew, you know, Hebraism in general as an ideology and all that.

01:33:26

And so it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger all the time. And so it's going to get more confusing, not less. And if you're going to specialize in this or take an interest in it, it's just something you're gonna have to understand.

01:33:37

You know, it is what it is. There's different types of Mormons. There's different types of Hebraislites. You know what I mean? And I'm not, you know, just if you know a

01:33:43

Hebraislite, what do you do? You just talk to them. You ask them. You find out their beliefs firsthand from them. You know, don't say mocap said it on an interview.

01:33:50

No, find out what they individually believe, because I may say something that does not represent a belief. And I understand it. But I do speak of official camp positions.

01:33:56

And I will sometimes talk about, you know, general tendencies. And I try to be as accurate as possible. They'll complain.

01:34:03

But I do way more, way more parsing out than most Hebraislites do. They just lump us in all as Catholics or as prosperity.

01:34:13

It's like there's very little understanding of distinctions within Christianity among a lot of Hebraislites. It's pretty sad, actually.

01:34:19

Well, I think they group us all in as Edomites. Well, that's not a religious designation, of course.

01:34:26

That designation for people whose ancestors would be understood to be Europeans. But here's what

01:34:31

I understand about Hebraislites. Sometimes people focus on, well, they condemn white people. Don't focus just on that.

01:34:37

They also condemn Arabs. They condemn Indians from the continent, is what

01:34:42

I mean. That, no, not Native Americans. They condemn all variety of Asians, specifically

01:34:48

Moabites. They've used Chinese and Ammonites. They've used Japanese. My point is they condemn all kinds of other people.

01:34:56

You know what I mean? It's not just, now they just say Edom's the worst of the worst. That's where a lot of their emphasis is.

01:35:02

But they've got a whole group of people on their 18 nations chart.

01:35:08

That's another thing they have. It's called the 18 nations chart, or sometimes the Gentile nation chart, or sometimes the heathen nation chart.

01:35:13

It's a little confusing because it's 18 nations, but one of them is Israel. So it's actually 17 other nations.

01:35:20

But they only believe there's 18 people groups, basically, on the earth today. And they like to identify people with their ancient biblical name.

01:35:26

And they think they've got who is who. And so, you know, if you're any kind of European descent, you're an

01:35:32

Edomite. It's an utterly ridiculous proposition. But nonetheless, that's something they do.

01:35:39

So it's basically a table of nations of who to condemn, of who, you know, the gospel is not for you, other than you're going to be a slave in the kingdom.

01:35:48

Well, let me, I'm going to put this quote up here. This is classic. And you, unless you've been watching our show regularly, this is

01:35:54

Catholic traditionalist. It's kind of funny. He said, he said, vocab alone just refuted

01:35:59

Presbyterianism by admitting that Protestants disagree with each other. He said

01:36:05

Protestantism. Protestantism, sorry. Protestantism by admitting Protestants disagree with each other, which means they're not of one faith and therefore not the true church.

01:36:16

They're a house divided. Now, here's the irony. For anyone who's a regular to the Apologetics Live, they know that this is coming from a guy who doesn't think the pope is

01:36:25

Catholic. In other words, he just, he just defeated his own belief system because he's in a house divided because he doesn't believe that the

01:36:36

Catholic church is really Catholic ever since Vatican II. So, oh yeah.

01:36:43

And so he would say the current pope is not Catholic. No, there aren't any Catholic popes since Vatican II.

01:36:50

So there's a division, I guess, within Catholicism. Actually, there were earlier divisions, right?

01:36:55

There was Catholicism. So he's a, I always mispronounce the word, but he's a synaesthetist.

01:37:04

Correct. Synaesthetist. Okay. So, you know, hey, I respect your position. I wonder if you know

01:37:09

Latin, because if not, I don't know what you're getting out of the mass because it's all, since you're just hearing it in Latin. But I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make sense to anyone who knows anything about the divisions within Roman Catholicism because...

01:37:23

Which he admits to, by the way. He does admit that there were several popes at different times. He just somehow only one was the true one.

01:37:31

Yeah. And Vatican can do none of them. But how do you get the... What is it, Avignon papacy, where, you know, they got one time you got three popes.

01:37:38

Mm -hmm. The fact that some popes have condemned other popes once they were no longer around. I'm not sure if he's aware of this, but he should look into it.

01:37:46

There's actually popes who actually embraced Arianism and later on, like, so clearly they were heretics because even

01:37:53

Arianism, of course, is also rejected by Rome. The list goes on and on and on.

01:38:00

It seems by Pope John Paul's recent words that he's taking shots at the current pope. So you've got a living pope who wasn't...

01:38:07

He didn't retire in disgrace or something like that. He just retired for whatever reason. And it seems like he...

01:38:14

So you have two popes, actually, technically, you know, I understand one's active this time. There were three. Yeah.

01:38:19

So even now, and he's taking shots at the current guy. But even within, you know, Roman Catholicism, you have academics who don't believe in the virgin birth, and yet they get to teach at Catholic schools.

01:38:33

And you've got politicians who support, you know, abortion all the way up to the ninth trimester, the last trimester, and they get to take the mass.

01:38:42

So I don't know what's going on. And not only that, but Rome split a long time ago, 1054, with the

01:38:50

Eastern churches. And what do we do about that? At one time, they were hypothetically won in some way.

01:38:57

Well, actually, wait, technically, if we think about it with Martin Luther, he was actually looking to reform the church.

01:39:03

That guy that's over your left shoulder there, I see him behind you. He was trying to reform the church.

01:39:10

So we call that a split. Boy, I guess there's a lot of divisions. All of Protestantism then is proof that the

01:39:16

Catholic church, by his argument, is not true. It's not the one true church because there were divisions.

01:39:24

So there's a guy that came in here. I don't know if I'm going to pronounce this right.

01:39:31

Keith G, maybe I think is. I'm going to assume that the G was. But if you're there, you can unmute yourself.

01:39:38

I don't know. He was there. He was there earlier. He may have walked away.

01:39:46

So all right. Keith G, if you have some questions. All right.

01:39:53

So traditional Catholic came in. So vocab, it's up to you. Obviously, it would change the nature of the discussion that we're having here.

01:40:02

But so it's up to you. Well, I think, I mean, he comes in often and kind of rambles quite a bit.

01:40:08

We have, let's see, we got about 20 minutes left. So I would say, I mean, I would like to do this if we can.

01:40:16

Because, you know, not very often we get you to come in. Oh, Keith G is back.

01:40:21

Let me add him back in and see if he wants to unmute himself. I see his, at least

01:40:27

I think I saw his cross the movement. Keith, if you want to, those eyes look like they're closed.

01:40:37

Okay. So let's do this in a couple of minutes that we have left, because we don't always get to get you to in here.

01:40:45

It is a privilege. And you still got to send me the link so we could play some, give you some background music.

01:40:53

Yeah, I'm trying to think about email. What do I got here for you? Well, if it's on YouTube or something, just text it to me and I'll.

01:41:01

The problem is if you use a YouTube beat, it's going to, if you use something like YouTube. That's true.

01:41:11

Let's see, maybe I can. I wonder if I could,

01:41:18

I wonder if I could upload a beat to YouTube and send you the link. Let me try that. I'm going to try this while you're bringing up your guy.

01:41:24

I'm going to try something. What I was going to do is have you talk about your book, you know, which is an interesting name for your book.

01:41:36

I'll bring that up so folks can see your book. But you have a book that you wrote called

01:41:43

Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites, an introduction to the history of, and beliefs of one

01:41:56

West Hebrew Israelism. So what's with that title?

01:42:02

You're just trying to be, you know, using Barack's name or what? How, how's that all work together?

01:42:11

Um, yeah, um, I mean, YouTube is giving me problems. It's not like, um, well, uh, what, what that's about is, there was a movie called

01:42:22

Barry came out on Netflix and in the Barry movie, it talked about it.

01:42:28

It kind of showed a portrayal of Obama's life when he was like 21 going to Columbia, which is in New York city.

01:42:36

And, um, in that movie, there's this clip where he's walking down the street and there's some

01:42:43

Hebrews lights out there. And he has a brief kind of argument with them. And I said, oh, that's great. You got, you got, they got young Obama arguing with the

01:42:50

Hebrews lights is a short scene, but a lot was said there. And I found it interesting.

01:42:56

And I said, that'd be, that's kind of an interesting idea. You know, Barack Obama is the Hebrews lights right there. So, uh, what

01:43:03

I did is I took that scene and used it as a way to discuss the issue.

01:43:09

And I would say, you know, in this scene, this thing happened, or he said this. And, uh, it was kind of a playful way to get into the subject, but the book's not about, uh,

01:43:21

Barack Obama. It's not that he, it's just a way to kind of jump off, but I also knew it would be a, uh, kind of provocative title.

01:43:28

So, so that's what I went with it, uh, eventually by God's grace, I'll make a second edition and it'll have, you know, probably a more bland title, like understanding

01:43:37

Hebrews realism or something like that. Uh, but for now that's the title, what it is. And, uh, uh, it's really just a intro or primer to basic one

01:43:45

West Hebrew is a light ideology and history. That's all it is. So it's a helpful way to kind of get you started, you know, and there's a few books like that out now when

01:43:54

I wrote it, there really wasn't, but, um, you know, the more the merrier. So, um, if you're interested in the subject, pick it up on Amazon or, or the book patch.

01:44:03

All right. I'm going to try to bring Keith back in here. One last time here.

01:44:11

Keith, are you there? All right.

01:44:17

Yes, he is not there. All right. So here, if, so you want a random beat. Well, the thing is it'll get copyright strike for you.

01:44:25

Not this way. So what I've done is I've gone out to, uh, to YouTube themselves to where they say, you know, that it is nothing is required.

01:44:38

And I put in rap and so I got a bunch of hip hop rap so we can have a choice. I will.

01:44:44

Let's hear a couple of you. You tell me how long I got either how long it could be. Three minutes is around three minutes.

01:44:51

All right. There's a three minute one and it's called mission to Mars. Let's see.

01:44:56

I'll still see, see if I can hear it and if it'll work here. You hear that?

01:45:02

Okay. I don't hear, I don't hear it. Oh, wait, hold on. I know what I got to change. I just have to change where that is going.

01:45:13

You might have to like, okay, now let's try it.

01:45:26

It doesn't sound like rapper hip hop. That's not bad.

01:45:39

Let's look at a couple of others real quick. If we could, if we had to use that one, we'll use that one.

01:45:44

Here's one called trespass. I'll skip to like the middle. All right.

01:45:52

Here's one. Andrew, the DJ. Say again.

01:46:04

I was just saying skip to the middle on them if you can. Okay. That one's too noisy.

01:46:14

Let's maybe just a few more. If not, the first one is duo. That one's.

01:46:26

Now what I would think is hip hop. Let's try this one. Got a couple more.

01:46:42

Yep. Here's one called trapped. This is funny. I don't think people ever thought this would happen. To the next one.

01:46:55

These are all like the drums aren't really something with little thick drums. Well, here are a couple more.

01:47:00

We'll see. All right. They got these a lot of electronic sounds are like distracting.

01:47:06

Yeah. That sounds cheap.

01:47:15

Yeah. No, not that one. Fleeplessness. Let's see. That's why these are

01:47:20

YouTube. And they're free to use. Oh, this might be it.

01:47:30

Well, it's definitely slower than I would like, but that's by far the best one so far to wrap over for freestyle.

01:47:39

All right. Let's try this next one. See that. That one is by far the best for me.

01:47:50

Or this one. Oh, it is. Is that one work?

01:48:00

Well, wait, that's it. Huh? That's that's all that's doing. No, I thought that was going to go somewhere.

01:48:06

That was the middle. Oh, wow. Okay. No, she's. Oh, my goodness. All right. I would try that one.

01:48:12

That was like two or three ago. Sleepless. All right. Ready? Here you go. Turn it up. Can you turn it up? I don't know how this is going to sound, but if you could turn it up,

01:48:18

I don't know how anything sounds. The louder the beat is, the better. Because you got to hear you, though.

01:48:25

I can project the beat when it's not loud. It just doesn't sound that great. This is what you get with me as a

01:48:33

DJ. So what am I rapping about now, though?

01:48:38

I forgot. Well, now it's freestyle. So you just make it up, I guess. I guess you have to go with the

01:48:45

Hebrew Israelitism. All right. I don't actually.

01:49:04

This beat's not that great. You want to go back to the first one? Yeah, I guess.

01:49:11

Try one other. That wasn't the first one.

01:49:19

I'm trying some others here. Oh, my goodness. This is funny. This is great for a live show.

01:49:24

All right. Let's go back to the first. Now I got to find the first one. Mission to Mars. Here we go. It's royalty free.

01:49:46

It's what happens when you get it free. It really ain't that great.

01:49:52

You can tell it's not that great. Nah, nah. Whenever I rap, the beat drops out.

01:50:00

So it's kind of hard. Like when I shout. So here

01:50:07

I spit this rhyme from the top to the line. Okay, so fine. Okay, we keep it defined.

01:50:14

Hello. How you doing? They say it's been out in the front line. And yo, keep it real for life when

01:50:23

I'm talking to you. That's the first beat. So people out now.

01:50:29

What's a good time like isolation? Look at it.

01:50:35

Okay. Go ahead. Throw the book at it. Spit out now. I know that it's part of the rabble.

01:50:42

Mix up the words like scrabble. It's talking about the baby rabble. Don't watch it.

01:50:54

We got to get it right, man. Don't want to flirt with ice to Jesus.

01:51:01

Nah, it's strictly X to Jesus. Yeah, so we come. How does it point to Jesus?

01:51:07

Because the prophets, yeah, mocked in his own town. So people stop now. It's vocabulary down.

01:51:14

Say it. The vocals are like right now. They can't. I gotta say stop now.

01:51:22

They can't hear it. Apparently every time I wrap the book. So no, I'm looking at the live chat.

01:51:27

Everyone's saying they can't hear. Ah, well, I don't know. It might not work. I'm gonna have to do a freestyle later on in my channel.

01:51:33

Unless we just do a acapella, I guess. You know what I mean? Oh, maybe you can get some of the live chat that can beatbox and then come on a beatbox.

01:51:41

That'd be fun. Or I could just drop a written verse.

01:51:50

Yeah, sorry. I muted myself so that I wouldn't interfere. Yeah, I was trying.

01:51:56

I guess what I'd have to do because they're both over the same thing.

01:52:01

I can't separate the sounds. But you could send something over to me and I'll stick that in place for the podcast.

01:52:11

All right, I'll try. It'll take a second. I don't know if there's any other questions. No, so let's see if we have any other questions.

01:52:18

Uh, we got about eight. Catholic traditions is claiming that he would, we would have, uh, you don't want to bring him on because he would have refuted us all.

01:52:29

Doesn't he come on like every week though? Yeah, he, he, he does. He likes to come on, especially when there's new people.

01:52:34

And he likes to say that no one's been able to refute him as week after week. He gets refuted this, this week though.

01:52:41

We didn't have to bring him on because he refuted himself, which is beautiful. Maybe he's a

01:52:47

Hebrew. Yeah. Let me bring Andrew in here. And, uh, Andrew's from down under he's from, uh, from Australia down there.

01:52:56

So you got any questions for us tonight? Andrew, you have to unmute yourself.

01:53:06

There we go. This isn't like hanging out. Um, okay.

01:53:13

Um, uh, where do I have them? I had them somewhere.

01:53:19

I took notes. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:26

Yeah. Going from my head, I think. Um, okay.

01:53:35

I don't know. Um, no, all the questions drifted. I had them and they've gone.

01:53:43

Okay. Well, no, no problem, Andrew. Um, so, so vocab, is there anything that you're working on?

01:53:51

Anything that, uh, yes, that, uh, you'd want to share with, with folks about, uh, different things that you might be having happening?

01:53:59

Well, so I'm working on an article, uh, for the, uh, the

01:54:05

Christian research journal about the, um, the way, man, sorry.

01:54:14

I'm working on an article about, uh, on the, for the Christian research about the, um, way that the, uh,

01:54:22

Hebrew Israelites, um, group, you know, different groups of people and how they, how they, how they come to that conclusion.

01:54:29

So in the article, uh, I explained why they call Chinese Moabites and why they call, um, uh, white people

01:54:38

Edomites. And that's supposed to be on the online edition of the Christian research journal. It's like in the final editing, uh, stages of it right now.

01:54:47

So, uh, that's one thing to look for. And then I'm working on a second book, which should be called, um, uh, do your research is the title as of now, do your research.

01:55:01

And so hopefully, uh, that will be done. Um, I don't know before the end of the year, but it's looking tight.

01:55:10

And then the other thing is just sort of on the YouTube channel in general, we, I've been blessed to do some traveling a little bit this summer because I would be like at a conference or something.

01:55:19

And I would just ask him to bring me in a day earlier, stay a day later. So I could go out on Saturday and do things like talk to Hebrew Israelites or stuff like that.

01:55:25

So a number of the recent videos are actually us talking to them directly at camp or while they're out there on the street or, um, uh, or going in front of their school and saying,

01:55:37

Hey, this group believes that, you know, and, and sharing that. Uh, so those have been really, really cool.

01:55:43

I got a friend named Mike who does some great, uh, editing as well.

01:55:48

And it's, it's been good. Um, here I'm sending you the link on your phone. I don't know where you want it. It said it's still processing, but there's the link, but it might take a second more, but it does it pretty quick.

01:55:58

Cause it's only like a quick beat. It's made by Jonathan Soko, one of his beats, but, um, yeah.

01:56:06

Uh, so those, those are some things, you know, I, I don't only do stuff on Hebraism. Obviously it's a specialization and I'm okay with specializing.

01:56:15

Um, and also we do some things that are different than not everyone likes. And I understand that too.

01:56:21

Some people get upset, but you know, we are currently, I'm working with David Wood and acts 17 apologetics and all those guys.

01:56:27

And we do a thing called the boom, boom room. And that, that comes out every week, except last week we missed it.

01:56:32

But on those, um, Muhammad character, Muhammad interviews, a figure from history or fiction.

01:56:39

And in the interview, uh, you learn about Islamic ideology from the sources.

01:56:44

We show the sources during the interviews. They're also done very humorous. So it is satire. So some people, it is not for everybody.

01:56:51

And then, um, every episode, um, shows different contradictions. So we had

01:56:57

Muhammad, for example, meet a nation of Islam member. And, uh, both of them kind of showed points about the other's belief system that were inconsistent and stuff.

01:57:05

And then, uh, you know, there's another episode the next week. So that's every week on act 17 apologetics.

01:57:12

So it's a different kind of apologetic and it's not for everybody. I get that, but that's something else I work on in between trying to write or do videos on my own channel and stuff like that.

01:57:21

So, uh, you know, a lot going on. Is the, is it, is it working yet? Yeah, no, well, let's see, try it again.

01:57:28

Let me see. I'll just see on my end is my associates. Okay. It looks like it's ready. Excuse the picture.

01:57:34

I just grabbed the first picture I could see because it wanted a video with it. And it's kind of funny, the picture. So I mentioned how

01:57:40

I do other groups. You hear that? That's it. The picture is actually me standing in front of the five centers headquarters in Harlem.

01:57:49

Uh, um, and so they, they, the, the, they're called the nation of gods and earths. And sometimes I do stuff on, on them as well.

01:57:55

So that's us standing in front of their headquarters. Um, and I like dealing with those guys. It's nothing like dealing with Hebrew sites.

01:58:00

They're real peaceful, rational. A lot of, you know, for the most part, as far as what I've seen, and I really liked those guys, but, you know, uh, they believe in a kind of an urban Gnosticism.

01:58:10

So it's still a false religion, but, uh, I got love for those guys. So, um, I wish there could be more positive relationships with some of the

01:58:17

Hebrews lights, but in general, they don't really allow for it because it's such a strong binary that they hold to, but, um, you know, it doesn't have to be that way.

01:58:25

We can have some good fruitful discussions. Sometimes try to get the bottom of some of these issues, but all right. You think you're ready?

01:58:31

Yeah. Ready? Yeah. Turn it up loud. Cause that's as loud as I can go.

01:58:45

Don't go. Oh, it's cutting out again. Got a so -called beat.

01:58:50

When I rhyme, I hear it not be complete. The audio deletes and it stops on the wrapping.

01:58:55

So I guess we'll have to resort to hand clapping. Maybe toe tapping, maybe finger snapping.

01:59:01

Vocab alone. Back in the day with rapper John Zappin. After Ruben coming through. Check it out.

01:59:07

Now the dude was a Jew like Andrew Rappaport. Rhyming in sport. Vocab alone.

01:59:12

When I laugh, I might snort. I got the cohorts. Snuffle with the back and he brings the beat like four is

01:59:19

Yeltsin. He's helping. It's Russian. He's helping me as a DJ. Check it out. What we say, we be on three way.

01:59:27

Talking to my mom and William Lane Craig three way. Just kidding. That's fictional. This is my fictional.

01:59:32

Ayo, peep this out. The style is like national. Like Hebrew national. Now I'm asking you. Don't call the devil like I had a basketball.

01:59:40

Ayo, just move it. Hear me. I know that I'm speaking into the mic loud and clearly. Get near me.

01:59:46

I might give you a hug. Ayo, what up? I'm high on Christ. No drug. No bug. The end of the show.

01:59:53

Provided the beat by Mr. John Socoe. Socoe, you can call me Socoe. Now I'm Mr.

02:00:00

Vocab Malone. Shalom. Could they hear it?

02:00:06

Yeah, they were saying they were saying they heard it. With the beat too, though?

02:00:12

Well, I heard the beat pretty loud. Yeah, well, hopefully it worked. It was pretty fun. I heard you enough that I could pick it up, but that was pretty good.

02:00:20

So that's Vocab Malone doing some freestyle. Yeah, we just have fun.

02:00:28

I'm not I'm a retired rapper. I'm just an apologist, but we have fun with it. Yeah, I can't even. You know, you you left earlier.

02:00:34

We got to get you next time you come up to Union Square. You and I'll have to plan it out. And they actually have the guys that, you know, do the

02:00:44

I don't know what it's called it, where they do all the freestyling. I saw that. And it's it's amazing to hear these guys.

02:00:52

They're pretty good. So I appreciate you coming on and helping, you know, with answering some questions that this has been something that's come up, you know, in the earlier before you came in,

02:01:03

I was talking about the fact there's it just seems to be so many people that want to try to claim that they're

02:01:10

Israelites as if they're God's chosen people, as if they're something special. And I really think that, you know, what you end up seeing is, you know, a lot of people that are trying to find a way to make themselves feel more spiritual, to make themselves feel that they're something special.

02:01:30

It really feeds into pride and the real issue. And this is the thing. I say this is someone who actually is a

02:01:36

Israelite. OK, I got saved the same way every other Gentile gets saved.

02:01:43

We should not be looking at ethnicity or anything like that as if it's some sort of spiritual badge of honor or something that makes us more special than anybody else.

02:01:54

The fact that Christ would have anything to do with us is what makes it amazing.

02:02:00

The fact that the holy God of the universe would regenerate us, take us from being his enemies and adopt us into his family is amazing.

02:02:11

And the thought of that, there should be no need to think that I have to be more spiritual than the next person.

02:02:17

The reality is, is that those of us who know Christ, we can rest in the fact that the almighty

02:02:24

God of the universe came down to earth and he became a man that he could die on a cross and be a payment of sin that we can have eternal life.

02:02:38

That blows my mind. And so someone's asking, am I in Israel?

02:02:44

Are you an Israeli? I am a Levite. And so, no,

02:02:49

I'm not an Israeli. I've been to Israel. And I should mention, actually, that's a good lead in vocab.

02:02:54

The person just led into a good thing that I forgot to mention. But Striving for Eternity is going to Israel in March of 2020, or sorry, 2021.

02:03:04

And we have only 55 spots that are going to be open. We do have a survey.

02:03:10

If you go out either, it'll be out on our Facebook or sorry, it's on my Facebook page.

02:03:16

It'll be on our webpage at strivingforeternity .org. It'll be up there shortly if it's not there now, but there'll be a link to where you can find out information about it and also to a survey.

02:03:29

It's important to fill out that survey because that survey is filling up that tells the organizer how much interest there is with different people.

02:03:39

But there's been enough interest that he thinks we're going to fill out the 55 spots. That is the max. And so he is going to go to the people that fill out that survey first.

02:03:50

And those are going to be the contacts. And if it fills up from there, we won't be opening it past that.

02:03:55

So it would be really important to go out and fill out that survey. And then once he sends an email out to folks to get to sign up quickly, because it sounds like that's going to fill up, but we're going to be having the speakers from Striving for Eternity, myself,

02:04:09

Frank Mullis, Anthony Svestro, and we'll also be joined by Justin Peters. We'll be doing 13 days in Israel.

02:04:17

Think we're working the next week. We'll have the itinerary all worked out 12 or 13 days, and we're going to be seeing a lot of sites.

02:04:25

Basically, we're going to be going and doing a lot of things that most people see, and then some things that not everyone gets to see.

02:04:33

I am trying to work on something special as an after in one of the other countries, if we end up going there.

02:04:40

And if I could pull this off, then we're going to do something really special. And if we pull it off,

02:04:45

I'll let you know. But if you guys want to come to Israel, it is a really neat trip.

02:04:51

It's going to be a lot of fun. And if you could go strivingforeturning .org, the details will be there.

02:04:58

If not today, I think by this weekend, they should be up. So check that out.

02:05:05

And that is something we're going to be doing and looking forward to. And by doing it in March 2021, you have a lot of time to be saving for it and being able to prepare.

02:05:16

So Vocab, anything else you want to say before we cut out? Yes, yes. Ironically enough, the person who made the beat that we just heard that, you know, was kind of in the background where we did the rap, his name is

02:05:30

Jonathan Soko, and he used to be part of a Hebrews Lite group called GOCC. Gathering of Christ Church is what it stands for.

02:05:41

And I think he used to check out the show back in a day when he was Hebrews Lite. And he was telling me this.

02:05:48

He might have said something back then, offensive or mean or whatever. My point is, he came to watch the show today and he was blocked.

02:05:57

So he's no longer a member of GOCC. So I don't know who can have the power to control.

02:06:02

But if you look for S -O -K -O, that's the last name. Look for that. Someone could unblock it.

02:06:08

Yeah, I can do that. Send me the, if you see me responding, I'm responding there. You can text me.

02:06:16

Now I'll try to see how to unblock him. Yeah, that's kind of cool. So it's good to hear.

02:06:22

Well, good to hear anytime that someone comes to Christ. So, folks, until next week,

02:06:29

I don't know if Matt's going to be back. And if not, we're going to have someone else coming in.

02:06:37

I am trying to work with some other folks to bring in some people to answer specific things like tonight where we could talk specifically about Hebrew Israelitism and get to answer some of those things.

02:06:49

Unfortunately, none of the folks came in who were online. That's not unusual, especially with this group.

02:06:57

They seem to be very strong, unfortunately, at the keyboard only. So, hey, maybe next time.

02:07:06

But if anyone wants to come in, you're welcome any Thursday. We're here each time.

02:07:12

We're not running from any debates. And I love vocab's G .I. Joe mug there, by the way.

02:07:18

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a G .I. Joe cup.

02:07:26

Cover commander in the background right here. You can't see him all that well, but that's a cover commander mask, actually.

02:07:33

You got Luther over your shoulder and G .I. Joe in your hand. There you go. So, yeah, basically, you know, and hey, shout out to everyone.

02:07:44

And if you're in Houston, Texas, hit me up because I have a couple of questions. Houston, I may be visiting soon and I'm trying to trying to connect with some people there.

02:07:53

So anyone in Houston, hit me up. But that's pretty much what's up. All right. Well, thanks for coming in. I appreciate it.

02:07:58

It was great to actually get to meet you face to face and hang out with you again. Hopefully we're going to have to set up for you to come back to New York.

02:08:05

That's cool. You guys, it's a blessing. You know, Andrew is out there with a team of people and they're on fire for the

02:08:11

Lord and they're preaching the gospel in the heart of the city on a Friday night. So it's a powerful thing to see.

02:08:17

And, you know, you guys are preaching the gospel. And yeah, it's good. You have relationships with people and you're compassionate with people.

02:08:24

So, I mean, keep it up. That's amazing. I mean, we need evangelism everywhere and more people, more

02:08:29

Christians to get involved. And so that was a beautiful thing to see. So you guys keep it up. Be encouraged. I was glad to see you out there.

02:08:37

Yeah, I was surprised to see you out there, but I was really glad to see you out there. It was good meeting you.

02:08:43

So brother, thanks for coming in. Thanks for all of your wisdom that you bestowed on us tonight. A lot of research.

02:08:50

Just for folks who don't know, that's like months, years of research dumped in real quick.

02:08:57

Well, you know, shout out to, I see my brother in the live chat, Faithful to God. You know, he was involved with doing this stuff before I kind of got involved in the way

02:09:05

I am now. And, you know, he's got some great arguments and all kinds of information and knowledge.

02:09:11

And so I was actually just talking to him, Faithful to God. Like I said, he's in the live chat. Subscribe to him if you want more of this kind of information.

02:09:17

And, you know, we were talking about even some new little kind of quick one -off arguments today because we want to make more and more videos where we go to one passage, kind of clearly explain it and then show the contradistinction.

02:09:31

Say, for example, with Hebraism. And so it starts to develop more and more of a clear picture of the dichotomy and of really the antithesis between a gospel -based true biblical

02:09:41

Christianity and different versions of Hebraism. And so working on continuing to do that, just want to keep these things clear, you know, and have the gospel at the front and center and just help people come out of stuff that holds them down and confuses what's most important, which

02:09:59

Hebraism, by and large, does. And so instead of saying, do you know Jesus? Or how are you going to take care of your sins in the sight of holy

02:10:07

God? They say, who's your father? What's your nationality? So it's just a backward system, you know. So we want to deal with that in love.

02:10:14

So shout out to the Hebra's Lights in the channel and shout to Faithful to God and everybody else. You guys have a beautiful night.