Was the Prophet Jeremiah Unsure He Heard From God?? Responding to the Guys at Remnant Radio

Justin Peters

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:05

Jeremiah doesn't know that he knows that he knows that it's the Word of the Lord until Hananel offers to buy that field, which is how the story plays out.

00:15

I don't know how they get around that. Yeah. The very clear statement, then

00:20

I knew it was the Lord. Welcome to the program, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today.

00:28

I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. Those are the guys over at the

00:34

Remnant Radio YouTube channel program. They put up that short clip, what they call shorts.

00:40

I've never made a short, but anyway, that's what it was. It was a very novel pushback against what we as cessationists have long said, that when

00:51

God speaks, He speaks with crystal clear clarity. There is no confusion as to what

00:57

He is saying, nor is there confusion as to who it is who is saying it. They point to Jeremiah 32 verse 8 to say that Jeremiah himself, the prophet

01:08

Jeremiah, was unsure that the Word of the Lord he received was indeed the

01:13

Word of the Lord. I saw that clip and I texted it to my friend Chris Rosebro, and I said, hey, take a look at this.

01:22

We started talking and I was like, let's just have you come on my channel. He graciously agreed to do so.

01:29

I'm happy to have Chris Rosebro here on my program as my special guest. Chris does really good work on his

01:36

YouTube channel, Fighting for the Faith. Here is my interview with Chris Rosebro.

01:42

Chris, brother, how are you? Thank you so much for joining us today. Doing good.

01:48

Thanks for having me on your channel. Good. I appreciate you coming on, brother.

01:53

I would imagine most of the folks watching my video here, watching this video, they know who you are and they're familiar with your channel as well.

02:01

Tell us a little bit about yourself, Chris. Primarily, I am the pastor of Kongsvinger Lutheran Church in Oslo, Minnesota, and also the host of the

02:12

YouTube channel, Fighting for the Faith, where we compare what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God.

02:18

Yes. I really enjoy your channel. You and I engage a lot of the same issues.

02:25

You've dealt a lot with these. I think you've dealt some with the Remnant Radio guys, but primarily with the known false prophets.

02:34

You do really good work. You're very, very good in Hebrew. I wanted to employ your expertise here.

02:45

Chris, the passage that they're talking about here is from Jeremiah 32. Jeremiah is the weeping prophet.

02:52

He did most of his ministry in the southern kingdom of Judah. Chapter 32 opens in verse 1.

03:00

It says, The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh in the 10th year of Zedekiah, king of Judah, which was the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar.

03:09

We're about the year 586 B .C. here. Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, correct?

03:17

Mm -hmm. Let's read verses 6 through 8 here.

03:25

Jeremiah said, The word of Yahweh came to me, saying, Behold, Hennamel, the son of Shalom, your uncle, is coming to you, saying,

03:33

Buy for yourself my field, which is at Anathoth, for you have the legal judgment for redemption to buy it.

03:40

Then Hennamel, my uncle's son, came to me in the court of a guard according to the word of Yahweh, and said to me,

03:47

Buy my field, please, that is at Anathoth, which is in the land of Benjamin, for you have the legal judgment for possession, and the redemption is yours.

03:56

Buy it for yourself. Then I knew that this was the word of Yahweh.

04:03

So that's the key phrase here. This is what they focus in on. Then I knew this was the word of Yahweh.

04:11

So let me play this clip for us, and then I'll get your expertise.

04:19

I'm sure you would agree. Sometimes it would come in a vision. Sometimes it would come in a dream. Sometimes it might come in sentence structure.

04:28

Right. When they say, The word of the Lord came to me, it probably did come in some kind of...

04:34

We don't really know. It actually doesn't tell us how it came. Does that mean that they saw sentences? Does that mean that God audibly spoke it and then they conveyed it?

04:42

We don't know, but to your point, even when such a firm statement as the word of the Lord came to me is used in Jeremiah 32,

04:51

Jeremiah doesn't know that he knows that he knows that it's the word of the Lord until Hananel offers to buy that field, which is how the story plays out.

05:00

I don't know how they get around that. The very clear statement, then

05:06

I knew it was the Lord. Okay. There's a couple of different issues here,

05:14

Chris. I've often said that if you have to wonder whether or not God spoke to you, he didn't.

05:23

They're saying that there is some confusion here. Jeremiah didn't know it was the word of the

05:29

Lord until after the field was purchased. Walk us through this.

05:35

Okay. Well, first of all, I would note that it's clear that Michael Roundtree doesn't know

05:40

Hebrew. The reason why is because there's an important word in that part of the sentence that he hasn't really keyed in on.

05:49

Let me read it to you in Hebrew. In English, it says, then I knew that this was the word of the

05:54

Lord. In Hebrew, it's All right.

06:01

And the who there at the very end of that sentence should be translated as this.

06:07

So then I knew that this was the word of Yahweh.

06:13

The question is, what is the this referring to? Is it referring to the fact that Jeremiah was going, you know,

06:21

I think God was talking to me. You know, it felt like he was, but I'm not exactly sure.

06:29

That's just nonsense. And the reason why it's nonsense is because of several things.

06:35

But if we go back into verse one, note, notice the specificity. The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh in the tenth year of Zedekiah, the king of Judah, which was the eighth year of Nebuchadnezzar at that time, the army of the king of Babylon was besieging

06:50

Jerusalem and Jeremiah the prophet was shut up in the court of the guard that was in the palace of the king of Judah.

06:58

So you're going to note when Jeremiah gets a word of the Lord, there's specificity as to where he was, when it occurred.

07:05

We can actually pin it to a particular year. And if you know the ancient city of Jerusalem, you can even probably figure out where he exactly was.

07:13

And so when Jeremiah says here that the word of Yahweh came to me, behold, Hanamael, the son of Shalom, your uncle will come to you and say by my field that is at Anathoth, when

07:26

Hanamael shows up, the Hebrew phrase here, then I knew this was the word of Yahweh.

07:34

The better way to translate it, because that's kind of an idiom in Hebrew, the way he's saying it, and this is the right way to understand it.

07:42

Then I knew that this was what Yahweh was talking about is how we would say it in English.

07:47

And by the way, I have a very good commentary that backs me up on this.

07:53

If you're not familiar with the Kiel Dalich commentary, probably one of the best Old Testament commentaries.

08:00

It stood the test of time. And this thing is still just considered like one of the best commentaries that you can get on the

08:08

Old Testament. And they write regarding Jeremiah 32 .8. It says, what had been announced to the prophet by God took place.

08:17

Hanamael came to him and offered him his field for sale. From this, Jeremiah perceived that the proposed sale was what the word of the

08:26

Lord, i .e. that the matter was appointed by the Lord. So they are even understanding the same idea because of the way the

08:33

Hebrew works. It wasn't that Jeremiah was wondering if that was really God talking or anything like that.

08:40

So what Michael Roundtree did there, he eisegeted. He read in his own bad theology about prophecy into that text, hijacked that last sentence without even consulting the

08:53

Hebrew, without consulting good commentaries, and then basically said, oh, this is an example of what

08:59

I experience when God sometimes talks to me and it's a feeling.

09:05

It might be words or a sentence or whatever. And then later I'll get confirmation. So what he did is he read his own bad theology into it.

09:13

But instead the reality is that the key word there is who. Then I knew this, what, that when

09:19

Hanamael showed up, that this was the word of Yahweh. This is what Yahweh told me would happen. And so the confirmation wasn't that, oh, that was finally the word of the

09:29

Lord. No, no, now I know. No, instead it was, oh, this is exactly what Yahweh told me would happen.

09:35

That's the best way to look at that text. And checking a good commentary or learning Hebrew would help you a lot in that regard.

09:43

Indeed. Indeed. So, but they have to do this, right? I mean, charismatics today have to do this because they're constantly saying, well,

09:52

I feel like the Lord is trying to tell us, you know, I really feel like if you took the word feel out of their vocabulary, they couldn't communicate.

10:01

But there's no way, I mean, seriously, you know, I feel like the Lord is trying to tell, there's absolutely no example of that anywhere in scripture,

10:10

Old or New Testament. Now I want to interrupt here for a quick station break because I know what's going to happen.

10:19

People will hear that, charismatics will hear that watching this video and they'll say, wait, wait, wait a minute. You can't say that because Samuel, Samuel in the

10:27

Old Testament, God called Samuel and Samuel didn't know it was God. He didn't know what God was saying.

10:33

All right, so this is from 1 Samuel chapter 3 for context going back before, but Hannah, you remember

10:40

Hannah was praying to God, to Yahweh for a son, desperately wanted a son and God granted her request and gave to Hannah and her husband,

10:50

Elkanah, their firstborn son, Samuel. And so out of gratitude for God granting her request,

10:59

Hannah and Elkanah dedicated Samuel to Yahweh and right after Samuel was weaned, so he was probably maybe even 3 years old, 3 -4 years old, tops they gave

11:14

Samuel to Eli the priest and Eli basically raised

11:20

Samuel and as he grew, taught him how to be a priest, taught him how to minister to God, to Yahweh and when

11:29

Samuel was, most people say probably 12 years old, we don't know that for sure, but the text does say a young boy, so he may have even been younger than 11 or 12 but when he was a young boy,

11:42

God called him, now let's look at this for context, it's found in 1 Samuel chapter 3,

11:48

I want to show this to you, verse 1, now the young boy Samuel was ministering to Yahweh before Eli and word from Yahweh was rare in those days, visions were infrequent so this verse, this opening verse of 1

12:04

Samuel chapter 3 gives us two clues as to why Samuel initially did not know that it was

12:10

God calling him number one, he was a boy, a young boy at that,

12:16

I mean he may have been well under 11 or 12 years of age, so he was a young boy and notice the text says that a word from Yahweh was rare in those days and visions were infrequent, so this is like most of the time in the

12:34

Old Testament where God was not speaking, a word from God was rare, visions were infrequent, so nobody was expecting to hear

12:44

God speak, that was just not expected, nor should it have been, it was a very rare thing, so when

12:52

God called Samuel and said his name, Samuel, then

12:57

Samuel heard God clearly knew exactly what he said, he called his name he just didn't initially know that it was

13:06

God, so he ran into Eli thinking it was Eli calling him and said here

13:11

I am and Eli said no, I didn't call you, go back to sleep, and so this happened three times and on the third time, then it dawned on Eli, wait a minute, okay this is

13:21

God calling Samuel, and so Eli told Samuel that, and notice too in verse 7 here's another clue for us in verse 7, now

13:30

Samuel did not yet know Yahweh, nor had the word of Yahweh yet been revealed to him,

13:38

Samuel was just a little boy he didn't know Yahweh yet, so there was no reason for us to expect that Samuel would have known that it was

13:48

God calling him his name, it would have been very natural for Samuel to assume that it was coming from Eli because he was the only person there so Samuel did not know

13:58

Yahweh, the word of the Lord had not yet been revealed to Samuel, but even at that, even at that, with all that going on, he was a young boy, a word from the

14:09

Lord was rare in those days, visions were infrequent and Samuel did not yet know

14:15

Yahweh for the word of God had not yet been revealed to him, even with all of that going on Samuel still knew exactly what was said,

14:25

Samuel no uncertainty about what was being said

14:32

Samuel knew exactly what was said, he just didn't know initially who it was that said it, so sorry to my charismatic friends, you cannot use

14:41

Samuel as an example for what you hear today that is common in the charismatic movement, it is standard in the charismatic movement,

14:51

I feel like the Lord is trying to tell us such and such, sorry folks, it just doesn't wash.

15:01

Right, when God spoke he spoke with crystal clear clarity, can you imagine like,

15:07

I've often thought of this, can you imagine Abraham going up with Isaac and thinking the whole trip, boy

15:16

I sure hope I heard the word of the Lord right I really hope I heard God right when he told me to sacrifice my son, boy if I get this wrong the wife's going to be really upset with me when

15:28

I come back with a dead kid, I mean where in the Old Testament does anybody say,

15:34

I feel like the Lord tried to tell me such and such I don't, there's no text that says anything like it in fact, when you read some of the prophets, when the

15:46

Bar Elohim shows up when he comes to somebody often times there's a physicality to it at the very minimum, they're hearing absolutely audible voice that is unmistakably

16:02

God and then in the case of Jeremiah and some of the other prophets, when the Bar Elohim shows up, like I said, there's a sense in which

16:11

Yahweh comes and stands and talks with the person, and so just check these things out, and so Jeremiah at no point ever went,

16:21

I hope I got that right, I need to wait to get confirmation to see if that was really the word of Yahweh, he knew it was the word of Yahweh and again his constant pinning, it came to me on this day, when this thing was happening,

16:37

I was in this place all of that shows the specificity and Jeremiah knew full well what the word of Yahweh sounded like when it came to him, there was no mistaking it, and you're going to note the specificity that Yahweh gave regarding what

16:53

Hanuman El would do and then when Hanuman El shows up, he goes, ah, this is what Yahweh was telling me you'll note that there is no vagaries in this text at all and to try to turn this into one is to do violence to the text and to twist it.

17:08

Right. So Chris, with their and granted this is a novel interpretation, a novel argument

17:15

I've not heard before, but it seems to me that this is well intentioned, though it may be sincere they very well may be,

17:25

I have no doubt about that, but sincerity is not the issue, truth is the issue but it seems to me that this is one of the ways in which charismatics today try to make room for fallible prophets and fallible prophecies it seems like they recognize that the

17:42

Old Testament prophets were held to 100 % standard of accuracy, although this interpretation of Jeremiah 32 would seem to kind of run counter to that, but is that what you think they're doing here?

17:54

Yeah, absolutely and so you're going to note, one of the techniques that false teachers use is they go after clear texts that contradict their personal theologies, and so the

18:07

Remnant Radio guys they're not holding to a biblical theology, they're legitimately holding to a charismatic theology that exists outside of scripture, and they're trying to shoehorn in their theological system into the scriptural text and so they have to go after a gold standard

18:28

Old Testament prophet like Jeremiah and try to bring him down to their level in order to make themselves look credible and their theology to look biblical, and so this is a duplicitous technique, it's similar to what the feminists do when they attack the

18:46

Apostle Paul, so when the Apostle Paul says that a woman is to remain silent in the church what they'll do is they'll diminish the authority that Paul was speaking under, so they'll challenge his apostolic credentials they'll accuse him of being the founding member of the

19:03

He -Man -Woman Haters Club, so the idea then is that those clear passages that forbid women in the pulpit and women from holding the pastoral office now we've made

19:13

Paul the issue, and by making Paul the issue we can smuggle in our feminist theology. In the same way, this is what these guys are doing, they're attacking a gold standard

19:22

Old Testament prophet who legitimately exemplifies the fact that every single prophecy he gave came true, and he was living in a day of wingnut, wackerdoodle prophets like the

19:35

YouTube prophets we see today, and the kind of prophet that Roundtree is and his co -hosts, and so that being the case they have to diminish

19:46

Jeremiah and make it look like, oh, well, Jeremiah, he was a little bit fuzzy here. If he was fuzzy, why does he, number one, give all the specific details, which then specifically come true according to the details, and again, if they just would look at the

20:02

Hebrew, if they can, and look at how the top commentaries look at this, that was just him basically saying, ah, this is what

20:09

Yahweh said. That's all that was going on here, but they can't do that. So you'll note, if you go back and watch that clip, he eisegeted his theology into this

20:20

Jeremiah text by basically saying, this is how this is, and then he says, well, and then we've got this statement.

20:26

I don't know how people get around it. I don't know how they get around that. The very clear statement, then

20:34

I knew it was the Lord. We don't need to get around it. You need to explain why you twisted it.

20:40

And so you'll note then, this then opens the door for their so -called fallible prophets, which makes no sense at all.

20:47

I mean, if a fellow commits adultery, he's an adulterer. If somebody robs a bank, they're a thief.

20:52

If somebody lies about somebody, they're a liar. And if somebody gives a false prophecy, they're a false prophet.

20:59

That's just how this works. And so I would remind them that the biblical standard in the

21:06

New Testament requires us that when somebody claims that they have a prophecy from God, before we accept it,

21:14

God the Holy Spirit through the Apostle John commands us that we are not to believe every spirit, but we are to test the spirits to see whether they are from God.

21:22

And so that being the case, if someone's coming to me saying, well, I think, I feel, I'm not really sure, I had this unction that kind of pushed me to say that I think that maybe the

21:32

Lord is possibly saying something, I'm immediately going to dismiss that out of hand. That ain't the voice of God.

21:37

You do not pass the first test of a prophet or somebody who legitimately has a word of God for me.

21:44

That's right. Yep, absolutely. I think I've shared with you before in just private conversations,

21:50

I said that everything in the New Testament is better, right? Jesus is our better high priest, better covenant, offered a better sacrifice.

21:59

Everything is better, except apparently the gift of prophecy. The gift of prophecy ain't.

22:08

Yeah. There's more prophetic power in a magic eight ball than there is in all of the modern day prophets combined.

22:18

Right. Which is why we play Prophecy Bingo over at Fighting for the Faith. Yeah, that's right. All right.

22:27

Well, Chris, brother, thank you so much for helping us walk us through this and helping us to see it rightly.

22:34

And again, the title of your YouTube channel is? Fighting for the Faith. Fighting for the

22:40

Faith. Okay. And all the links down below, dear ones, in the description. And thank you so much for joining us.

22:47

I hope that this has been helpful for you. And until our next time together, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of His Holy Spirit be with you all.