December 17, 2018 Show with Steve Bloem on “The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness: A Guide for Training & Reference”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday. On this 17th,

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I can't even say the word, 17th day of December 2018, also want to give a shout out to my very dear longtime friend,

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. It is his birthday today, and I hope that God blesses him with a wonderful celebration with his family, friends, and loved ones.

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Today we have a first -time guest, and I am very enthusiastic to interview this individual because I think this is a topic especially that every man, woman, especially those who are counselors, especially those who are pastors, elders, and I consider those the same office biblically, deacons, or anyone who has family, friends, or loved ones who are suffering with mental illness.

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I'm speaking of Steve Bloom, and he is a counselor, author, and founder of Heartfelt Counseling Ministries, and we're going to be addressing his book,

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The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a Guide for Training and Reference, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Steve Bloom.

02:34

Hey Chris, good to be with you. Thanks for having me. And by the way, am I pronouncing your name correctly?

02:39

I don't know if it's Blome or Bloom. That's Blome, it's a Dutch spelling. Yeah, B -L -O -E -M,

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Blome, it means flower in Dutch. Yeah, so I did pronounce it correctly then. Yeah. Great.

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Well, tell our listeners something about Heartfelt Counseling Ministries. Oh yeah,

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Heartfelt Counseling Ministries is a non -profit with the IRS, a 501c3 charitable agency, and it actually started, we decided to, after my daughter was killed in a car accident, and it was on 9 -1 -1 that evening, and on the way back, and a guy that was on heroin and a couple other drugs just ran her, and they just hit her head on and killed her, and we were right up there on top of it, you know, we saw it.

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We were the first responders, but when I heard those words, she has passed, there's nothing more, any more devastating that you could hear that.

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And I saw how life is fragile and how it's temporary. It's a breath

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God gives and He takes away, and therefore, Robin and I started talking about Heartfelt Counseling Ministries.

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Now, how old was your daughter when she was tragically killed in that accident? She was 19 years old.

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Wow. Well, I want to somehow introduce you to dear friends of mine,

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Jerry and Fern Hill. They run the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch in Riverhead, Long Island, New York, which is a home for homeless boys, and they also have a new division for homeless girls, which is a recent development, and that ministry was started because Timothy Hill, a child prodigy before the age of 13, used to see how his parents lovingly welcomed foster children into their home, and he had a dream to start a home for homeless children that would be positioned on a ranch because Timothy loved horses and farm animals, and his parents were surprised when they were getting phone calls from real estate agencies that their 12 -year -old son was getting prices on land to start a home for homeless children.

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And tragically, Timothy, while riding his bicycle to school, was hit by a truck and killed at the age of 13.

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And Jerry and Fern Hill knew that they had to make Timothy's dream come true, and by God's mercy, they did.

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And even Lorne Green from Bonanza Fame helped them by hosting telethons on television for this because Lorne Green used to live in eastern

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Suffolk County in East Marion, Long Island, and so that ministry has been running for over three decades, and it is a very wonderful ministry.

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So I got to get you hooked up with them because of the similarities. Yeah, that'd be great, yeah, because we work with homeless people in downtown

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Grand Rapids. Not only was I a clinical social manager, but I also at the same time was reaching out in a place called

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Servant Center, reaching out to the homeless and then getting them help with the medication they need or dealing with the alcohol or things like that.

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Wow. Well, what we usually do on Iron Trip and Zion Radio when we have first -time guests is we have them give an abbreviation or a summary of their salvation testimony, what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Sure.

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I was brought up in the Seymour Christian Reformed Church, and I stayed there until I was 17.

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I decided, that's when I got saved, I got saved at a camp in northern

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Michigan, about as far as you can go with the lower peninsula, and I was in the, it was the third time

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I'd gone to this camp. I was just preoccupied with girls and things like that, and they were having the

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Lord's Supper, and all of a sudden I was like, you know, I thought I was confronted by Christ, and I said,

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Steve, why do you keep, you know, missing me? Why do you keep going on without me?

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And I just remember thinking of his shed blood, and I said, Lord, and he saved me wonderfully.

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And I ended up going to a Baptist church, Calgrass Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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John White was a great pastor there, and I was ordained there in 1985. But the walk has been long, but the

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Lord is wonderful and faithful, and I look forward to heaven every day, so has my wife. And when in your life did you realize that you had a call to be a counselor?

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Well, I realized I had a call to be a pastor, but it wasn't until I had the depression and the horrors of that, that's when

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I became a counselor, that, you know, it changed things for me.

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And then I actually started going to a school, Maryland School of Social Work in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and that helped prepare for me.

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And then I finished up with a ministry, a master ministry, and I finished that up,

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Baptist Bible Seminary in Clarkstown, Pennsylvania. So then I started directing my...

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I saw God directing me to not only be a pastoral counselor, but through the...

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I actually got depressed, and then I worked at a psychiatric hospital, then I worked for 10 years as a clinical case manager, along with the

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Servant Center of Grand Rapids. And so that's how I gradually developed that counseling, especially...

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I read a lot of books on mental illness and what they're about, and I just, you know, have been doing that ever since.

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Well, praise God. The Church is better for it now that you are blessing the body of Christ with counseling, something that is,

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I think, very seriously and urgently needed. And I think as life gets more complicated as the years go by, it's even more urgently needed, especially when things that have always been considered in the past as being aberrant and bizarre and so on are being deemed as blessings and things that people should be celebrated for and that people should be viewed as heroes for being involved in.

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And of course, I'm not broad -brushing this with all of mental illness, but I'm speaking of, you know, things like transgenderism and a multitude of other things that are viewed upon as being the cream of the crop of humanity, if you will.

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And I'm going to give our email address out for our listeners. If you would like to join us on the air with a question for Steve Blum, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N as in Nancy, Z as in zebra, E as in Edward, N as in Nancy, at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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And I could readily see a subject like this lending itself to people having personal and private questions either regarding their own life or a loved one who is battling with mental health issues.

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So that's chrisarnson at gmail .com. The issue at hand,

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I think, is very important because I'm certain, in fact, I know pastors personally who have wrung their hands and thrown up their hands and have reached a plateau in their ministry when it comes to counseling certain members of their congregation who are suffering with mental health issues that are far too deep for that pastor's personal experience and knowledge to handle.

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Because there are obviously issues involving the mind that are quite beyond the scope of what one would learn ordinarily at a bible school or a seminary.

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But if you could you could tell us what was it that specifically drove you to write the book that we are addressing today,

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The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a guide for training and reference. Okay, yeah,

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I was doing a lot of blogs on grief and also on mental illness. And I realized, you know, that this is something that I needed to know more about.

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And so I was depressed myself and I wasn't getting the right counseling.

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And I was getting all different versions of people said, go off your medications, others said psychological.

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So I wanted to discover for myself and I wanted to help others help.

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A lot of people think that I'm into psychology, but I'm not really into psychology. But I am an assistant into psychiatry, as far as referring people to psychiatry so that they can know how this is treatable.

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Now, I also am a counselor as far as, you know, loss issues and even things like the dark night of the soul, to go back to the

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Puritans. Some Thomas Mann had some great articles on depression and preached about being in darkness doesn't mean you're in sin.

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So yeah, did that answer your question? Yes. And we have a question from a listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Ted, who said, how does

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Mr. Bloom's approach to Christian counseling differ from those who believe that because the

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Bible is sufficient for all life, we therefore have no need for mental health professionals, and that psychology and psychiatry are completely incompatible with Christian belief, and should therefore be avoided at all costs?

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That I would imagine is an extreme view, because there are issues that are organic, although they might be a minority of issues.

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I'm not sure, I'm not the expert that you are. But yeah, if you could answer Ted's question. Well, yeah,

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I mean, it's back to what is the sufficiency of Scripture? You know, soul of Scripture, what does that mean?

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And, you know, I mean, we kind of give the illustration that you've got a guy that's flying a plane, and there's a problem, so he steps aside with his

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Bible and he's trying to fix it. So he wouldn't have much trust in him.

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So we think everything should come under the lens of Scripture, but not that we should leave mental illness, because the pastoral handbook of mental illness actually talks about people in the

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Bible who have had depression. And Trifold Job had a trifold depression.

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He had a, it was turbo -reactive depression, he had a biological depression, and he also had a social darkness that he was put in depression.

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So, but I had early on people considered completely not in sync, and for the most part

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I agree with that, except for I go back to the fall, and what happened in the fall as far as diseases or mental illness, you know, and there are principles in the

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Bible that help you. Yes, well, the

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Bible obviously is our sole infallible and inerrant authority in the

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Church, but there are details in everyday life that aren't specifically addressed in the

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Bible. I mean, the Bible is sufficient for all we need to know in regarding obedience to God, in regard to salvation, in regard to how we are properly to worship

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Him, and how they are fully sufficient for every good work.

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But obviously I'm assuming that just like a physician needs to go to medical school, there would be a need in a certain realm for psychiatry, but I'm assuming you would agree also that one needs to be extremely careful and even have perhaps the counsel of wise and biblically literate elders before one accepts the counsel and guidance of a psychiatrist.

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And I am differentiating that from psychology, although I'm not going to discount a little psychology either, but there are things that are due.

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Don't you agree that there are things that are due to organic problems in the brain?

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Oh, definitely. I mean, they can be, you can have a stroke, you can have dementia, you can have all different types of things that can happen in the brain, but sometimes people don't realize that mental illness is an organic thing, and it's a deficiency of neurotransmitters.

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It affects your appetite, your sex drive, your outlook, and those can be helped.

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I'm not talking about by anti -anxiety drugs, which are addicting, but actually antidepressants and mood stabilizers are effective, not only have

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I seen in my own life, but in others. So you don't have to go on that. And in psychiatry, yeah, but I've crossed with psychiatrists and psychologists many times over issues that were more morality or the view on Buddhism, or, you know, and I don't think we should get our moral advice from a psychiatrist.

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I don't think, you know, he doesn't have a lot to say. I don't think that's his realm. Unless, of course, he might be a

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Christian, he might be a godly. Well, he's a Christian, yeah, it's different. Yeah, before I ask any more of my own questions,

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I wanted to ask some of our other listeners questions. By the way, Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, you have won a free copy of the book we are addressing today,

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The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a Guide for Training and Reference. Please give us your full mailing address in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, so that CVBBS .com,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship that out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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We have, let's see here, we have John in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I have to enlarge

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John's email because the font is microscopic, and let me repeat our email address again while I'm doing that.

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It's ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com if you have a question for Steve Blum on mental illness.

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How should we think biblically about helping those diagnosed with bipolar disorder? And the second question is, how can the church come alongside those with mental health struggles?

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So the first issue is about bipolar disorder, and the second question is about the church's responsibility as congregants as well as leaders to come alongside people with kinds of mental health struggles.

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Well, bipolar disorder is one of the most awful disorders there is. You go from mania and then you go down into depression, and you may have normal moods between that.

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But probably the question I'm asked the most by families and other people, what can I do with my bipolar child or my bipolar husband?

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He doesn't think he needs any help. And so that, in mania, that's why there's a lot of problems with that.

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As far as in the church, I started a support group. I have support group material that I published on my own.

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It's like an eight -week guide from the scripture, and then going through that.

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And so people who want to learn more about that, since maybe the parents of children, the husband or wife, they may be suffering with themselves, they get a lot of comfort and a lot of strength in that support group.

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We call it CAMI, Christians Afflicted with Mental Illness. And so we've seen sometimes where I remember at one church

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I was at, there was a guy who I knew well. He came to my group, but he went into a mania because the doctor let him drop his medications.

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And he was standing out on a tree because he thought that tree was the only place in the universe that he would be saved, or safe,

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I should say. And one of the ladies who was cooking the meal in the kitchen got nervous, so they called the police.

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Well, he didn't want to leave that place, and so there's a fight ensued, and they took him away, and he got off his meds, he was naked outside his door.

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He was a wonderful Christian. He knew the Lord. You know, the cultural mandate says, you know, get him help.

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And so I've also seen people dragged out, let's say, out of mental illness in a church, and if that happens with me,

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I get up and say, look, I know what to do. I know how to help. And so the stigma is still very great in the church, and so we can deal with that by bringing it out in the open.

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And you'd be amazed how many people in your church, how many people are hiding mental illness who are in the church, some so to the point where they stopped going to church because they were so roughly treated about it.

21:52

Well, you have also won, John, a free copy of the book that we are addressing today by our guest

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Steve Blom. That book, as you know, is the Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a

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Guide for Training and Reference. And since you live in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, want to pick that book up in a week or so from the

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, since it is right there in Carlisle, and sparing cvbbs .com

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the shipping cost of sending that to you. So that should be, we don't have the books yet, but we'll probably

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God willing have them in a week or so, or should I say cvbbs will have them. Let's see here, we have a first time questioner from France, Yves, I don't know how to pronounce the city in France, N -A -N -T -E -S,

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Nantes, that's probably a complete butchering of the city. I don't know. But Yves says, what happens if a counselor gives conflicting advice to a patient?

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What can the patient do? I guess that would depend upon what it was in conflict with.

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Our listener, is it in conflict with the Bible? Is the counselor conflicting himself? Yeah. But try to make a workable question out of that,

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Steve, and answer it to the best of your ability. Well, counselors are not perfect human beings, so they're going to make mistakes.

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And what I was taught in one of my counseling things was that, you know, you have to listen very carefully to the person, and you have to try to figure out what he or she is saying, and then deal with the problem.

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And so, like I say, yeah, it's a little vague, the question, but definitely, there's going to be disagreements.

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A lot of times, what we say right from the outset, if there's something I'm doing that bothers you, tell me.

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We don't want it to build up, and vice versa. I remember I was interviewing this guy, or talking to him, counseling him, and I asked him that question.

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He said, well, first of all, if you get rid of that gum in your mouth, that'll help. So I said, oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, that was just one of the things that build up.

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So you can always get another opinion. A lot of times, you read above the counselor. If it's in the

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Bible, you read the Bible yourself. You're a believer priest. You know the word, and if it's some other type of problem, you can get a second choice.

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In fact, I always say, if your psychiatrist says, I don't know anything anymore to do with you,

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I say, fire him. I mean, you know, I hate to say that, but that's a terrible thing, because there's many, many things that you could always do.

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And there's great wisdom in having multiple counselors. That's right, yeah.

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Yeah, all together, not just at the same time. I mean, not just everybody disagreeing, but you got to get together with it.

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Yeah, you can do that, and that's what the Church should do, also have some specialty, because something like suicide is going to arise.

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And, you know, we have that in our support group material, and we also have it in this book, and we also wrote a book called

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Broken Minds, Hope for Healing When You Feel Like You're Losing It. And that was published in 2005 with Kregel, and a lot of that answers the questions of, you know, what is right in mental illness, what isn't.

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You know, it takes the different views on it, you know, spiritual warfare movement.

25:42

Can you repeat that title? Yeah, it's Broken Mind, Hope for Healing When You Feel Like You're Losing It.

25:52

Okay, and you could also order any book that we mentioned on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio from cvbbs .com.

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That stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. If they don't already have it, they can order it.

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You said that was published by Kregel, correct? Yeah, my wife

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Robin also wrote the book. We had a, you know, she's a dual author, very able author, so.

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Oh, well, I've already got an idea that sometime in the near future, we should have you both on to address that book as well.

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Definitely, yeah, that'd be great. All right, and by the way, Eve in France, if you have someone here in the

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United States who can receive this book on your behalf, so that he or she can ship this out to you, because cvbbs .com,

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our sponsors who ship out our winners, their free books, only ship out books and Bibles within the

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United States, because the shipping cost would be astronomical if we were shipping books out to our overseas listeners.

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So, let us know if there is someone here in the United States who can receive this book in your behalf and then get it to you themselves.

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And that goes for anybody listening who's overseas. We are only shipping these books to United States residents.

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If you live overseas and you have a friend or a family member who lives in within the 50 states of the

27:17

United States who can get it to you, we'll ship it to them if you can provide their shipping address.

27:23

We're going to our elongated break right now. This is the time during Iron Trip and Zion Radio where we need to take a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, uses this midway break to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Florida by airing public service announcements and commercials that are relevant to that local area.

27:49

So, please use this time wisely to write down questions for our guest Steve or Bloom, I should say, on mental illness and also use this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers because the more frequently you patronize our advertisers, the more likely they are going to remain on the air as our advertisers, which means the more likely we are going to remain on the air because we depend on their advertising dollars to exist.

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But that email address to send in a question for Steve Bloom once again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Steve Bloom right after this station break.

28:44

Hi, Phil Johnson here. I'm Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry, grace to you, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

28:54

So, I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnson and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the

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G3 conference where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

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Chris Arnson and I hope to see you all at this very important conference from January 17th through the 19th.

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpen's Iron Exhibitor's booth to say hi to Chris. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

29:31

That's g3conference .com. See you there. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sherpins Iron Radio here.

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Welcome back, and by the way,

36:13

I goofed. That was not our midway break. That was our first break. Our midway break is going to be coming up in about 20 minutes or so.

36:24

I apologize for the false alarm there, but the instructions that I gave still applied for you to write in questions and also write down the information that our advertisers provide.

36:36

By the way, if you just tuned in, our guest today is Steve Bloom, a counselor, author, and founder of Heartfelt Counseling Ministries, and we're discussing his book,

36:47

The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a guide for training and reference. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

36:54

If you have a question, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

37:02

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

37:08

By the way, I forgot to mention to Eve in France that if you can find an

37:14

American representative for yourself where we could ship your free book here in the

37:20

United States, you have also, since you're a first -time questioner, you've also won a new American Standard Bible. I forgot to mention that.

37:27

We have another listener. We have

37:32

Bruce in Center Reach, Long Island, New York. Are there any definitive indicators that a person in a demonized category of behavior, as opposed to a physically based mental illness category or behavior?

37:51

Let me repeat that. Are there any indicators that place a person in a demonized category of behavior as opposed to a physically based mental illness category or behavior?

38:07

Oh, yes. In fact, in the book, Pastoral Handbook, we talk about that. We do a differential diagnosis, which is a medical term of comparing diseases, what they have in common and what they don't.

38:19

And we do that with schizophrenia versus demonization.

38:25

And there's a definite difference. In my own public practice,

38:31

I worked with a team, and I was supposed to help figure out who should get services or not.

38:39

So, I was talking to one guy, and I said to him, he said, I'm demon -possessed. And then he said a few more things.

38:47

I said, well, you're not mentally ill. I said, if you're demon -possessed, you have to be saved.

38:53

He said, no, I can never do that. He said, I belong to a coven out in this rural conservative part of Grand Rapids.

39:02

A coven? A witch coven? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he just, you know, there's a definite difference, and we use the differential diagnosis in our appendices.

39:17

And so, yeah, and we talk about that quite a bit, because that's a very good question.

39:23

Yeah, I'm assuming that there are going to be circumstances when you are not a hundred percent sure that it's demonic, unless there are actually supernatural things accompanying the person's behavior.

39:41

Have you ever personally experienced someone that you were certain was demonically possessed?

39:47

And another question that I have to follow up would be, how close is Hollywood and the movie

39:55

The Exorcist and things like that to that in regard to people speaking languages that they had never learned here on earth as a student of foreign languages?

40:06

You know, those are sometimes the things that come up as the evidences of demonic possession in movies.

40:13

I don't know how accurate those things are, if they're just a product of fantasy or so on, if you could.

40:21

Well, they're getting a lot more right on depression and medication for that.

40:28

They used to just, when Robin and I would watch TV, they'd say, oh man, they're way off on that. As far as the exorcism, you know, it's my own personal belief that we shouldn't try exorcisms.

40:40

That was an apostolic thing. But we certainly can deal with it and, you know, tell a person they must be born again, they must be saved, but you can get into trouble if you start trying to...

40:55

I don't deal with a lot of demon possession. I mean, I'm happy to do it, but I just don't,

41:01

I don't do it. I have more people who are accused of being demon possessed when they're not.

41:07

But have you ever experienced it, though? I mean, I don't know if this person from The Coven was actually demon possessed, in your opinion, or if they were just depressed.

41:16

I think he was demon possessed, but I don't ever remember coming into someone who was the best, depressed, you know, showing a lot of the demonism that's found in the

41:33

Old and New Testament. No, as far as what I asked, though, are any of the things that we see in Hollywood accurate, or is that just fantasy of people speaking languages they were never trained to speak, and that kind of thing?

41:44

Oh, I mean, I think that could definitely be possible. I mean, you know, if somebody has immersed themselves in that type of thing,

41:53

I think there can be channeling. I think, you know, people do channeling. I've done things, you know, just with people that I was just amazed.

42:05

I was just, you know, wondering. One guy in a psychiatric hospital, he was a young guy, and he had to be restrained.

42:14

I'm telling you, I never have ever had somebody with that much strength that he had at the age that he had.

42:21

And I came to think that he very well could have been demon possessed. And so there's some things we just kind of go by it.

42:29

But TV, you know, they don't really get it accurate. I mean, they don't have a full, they air more than ever.

42:40

Well, thank you, Bruce. And CenterReach Long Island, make sure we have your full mailing address so that CVBBS .com

42:46

can ship you out a free copy of the book by our guest Steve Bloom, The Pastoral Handbook of Mental Illness, a

42:54

Guide for Training and Reference. We have a question from Mary in Cork, Ireland.

43:04

And I also have to enlarge Mary's email because the font is microscopic.

43:10

And while I do that, again, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

43:16

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

43:24

USA. Can you please ask your guest, where in the

43:29

Bible can one direct a person to who is struggling with mental illness?

43:37

Oh, yeah. There's a number of places you can go in the Bible to figure that out.

43:44

Job is one that a lot of times is neglected. But he meets a criteria in the

43:54

DSM -5 of the Psychiatric Manual of actually a person who is biologically depressed.

44:03

I think also you can see many people who may not have mental illness, but Jeremiah was one.

44:14

He probably didn't have mental illness, but he had a tremendous amount of grief and sorrow in his life. And he's good to read.

44:21

He wrote Lamentations, Lamentations 3 is one of the most wonderful scriptures there is as far as encouragement and feeling that God is away.

44:29

If you read the Psalms, the Psalms will really help your heart. And you'll see what others have been through.

44:35

I mean, one Psalm says, the spirit of a man sustains his sickness, but a wounded spirit who can bear it.

44:41

That's in Proverbs 18 .14. There's other

44:48

Psalms that talk about somebody, you know, somebody's crying, don't try to just speak words that are not, you know, in reference to what they're crying.

45:00

And a lot of people just don't do that. Well, thank you very much for that excellent question,

45:10

Mary. And we know that you have a relative here in the United States who can receive that book for you.

45:17

So we will make sure that that individual gets that book and holds onto it for you for when you return to visit the

45:25

United States. Thank you so much for contributing a great question to our program. We have

45:30

Joey. Go ahead. I just wanted to make a quick comment. When we first got the book and I was talking with the staff at Kriegel Publications, they have all over Europe, they have it in Russia, all these different places where you can get a book through them in that particular place.

45:53

And it would be cheaper, it wouldn't be a big shipping cost. Okay, great.

46:02

If they call Kriegel's, you know, they can tell them about that and what to do. Great, but obviously they would have to pay for it if they do that route.

46:09

But they might want to buy, after they get the free copy, they might want to buy copies to give to other friends and family.

46:17

And I know that there is a Cork Christian bookstore in Cork, so maybe they have it.

46:24

I remember they had the book in Hong Kong. That was really kind of nice that, you know, they have mental illness.

46:34

They have tremendous psychiatrists in Hong Kong, so kind of encouraging to know that it just doesn't happen here and that it's just not treated here in the

46:42

United States. Okay, we have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey.

46:48

Dear Steve, I am also involved in the field of counseling and can fully identify with your passion for this subject.

46:56

It seems that because of secular unbiblical understandings of anthropology, as well as systematic problems in the medical field, there has been an increasing tendency to very quickly diagnose mental illness such as depression or bipolar disorder and immediately put them on psychotropic medications.

47:30

Once diagnosed and medicated, the diagnosis is sticky, so the person and subsequent psychiatrists and experts continue to view the person as having that illness and needing the medication.

47:47

I have my own thoughts, but would really like to hear your personal view on the following.

47:53

How can we best be sensitive and supportive to get such needed help for those who genuinely need it while not making the mistake of misdiagnosing someone who has more of a behavioral or sin -related problem, locking them into that diagnosis and a wrong self -assessment of being mentally ill?

48:14

That's a good question. I know people also who have experienced horrific, terrifying, nightmarish consequences from taking prescription drugs that they did not need, and I in fact am planning to do a program on that very soon with the husband of one such person who may have permanent damage as a result of being wrongly prescribed certain psychotropic medications.

48:52

But if you could respond to Joey and Clifton. Well, once again,

48:58

I mean the book, we really covered that because it is a great question and people have to figure out, you know, about that.

49:06

So, you know, that we do differential as far as some people, some doctors will put somebody who is grieving on a, not an antidepressant, but even on an anxiety drug and that drug will, you know, cause them to be addicted and it will mess their brain up.

49:29

You can also take the wrong pills or something and I would say in that case, you know,

49:38

I always go to the pharmacist and ask them. They're pretty skilled at what medications do and what they don't.

49:44

But we have to realize, you know, that you have to realize there is a difference between grief and mental illness and there's that differential diagnosis that you work with which will help you, you know, be clear.

50:02

Now, on the other hand, once again, what I've experienced is a lot of disagreements over people being put on meds and, you know, there's a great problem with having, you know, a medication that, you know, it can cause problems if you go too high or and so we do need to talk about that and do need to figure that out.

50:31

You do, you can get he's right about the stigma. If you get a diagnosis, a lot of times the people that see you, they'll have the records and then they'll say, oh yeah, he has that and that's all with each person.

50:43

I don't look much at the diagnosis. I do it myself and I don't want to tag anybody because it may be a grief reaction.

50:51

It may be an organic thing. It may be, you know, there's all kinds of things that it could be.

50:57

It may be a stroke and so just to kind of superintend that over that and be aware of it is important and that's what we try to do in Pasco Handbook.

51:08

It's a handbook on how to deal with people, whether they should go on meds, whether they shouldn't, you know, things like that.

51:17

Well, thanks so much Joey and Clifton, New Jersey. Make sure you get to us your full mailing address in Clifton, New Jersey so that CVBBS .com

51:27

can ship that book out to you once they get it in their hands and thanks for providing such an excellent question.

51:35

We have Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas and Linda says, we've heard several

51:43

Christian teachers that say schizophrenia, bipolar, depression and other mental illness are caused by demonic influences.

51:53

What is your opinion and what is your recommendation when a family member begins to show changes in behavior like paranoia, overwhelming sadness, anguish and distress?

52:08

Thanks for your ministry regarding these matters. Yeah, once again in the

52:13

Pasco Handbook we discuss this at length because it's such an important thing to discuss.

52:22

Could you repeat the question, Elon? Sure, let me go back to the question from Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas.

52:28

We've heard several Christian teachers say that schizophrenia, bipolar, depression and other mental illnesses are caused by demonic influences.

52:41

What is your opinion and what is your recommendation when a family member begins to show changes in behavior like paranoia, overwhelming sadness, anguish and distress?

52:56

Why don't you take them one at a time as far as we've already addressed this but perhaps you could just add to what you've already said about the diagnosis of demonic possession.

53:08

Of course, there are many charismatic and Pentecostal movements that will very flippantly, if you will, or perhaps not flippantly but just immediately draw that conclusion and people may be scarred for life being branded and publicly viewed as one who has been or is demon possessed when that's not at all true and we cannot help but think of some of the horrific things that have happened where parents have done horrible things in regard to their own children, in regard to exorcisms that have resulted in physical harm and death.

53:50

So this is a situation that has to be treated very, very carefully, obviously. Yeah, that's true.

53:56

I mean, even from the very beginning, I had a situation where I was preaching at a mission and one of my clients who, during the day, where I work for secular people, one of my clients came into that room and he had a lighter and he said,

54:19

Hey, look at me preacher, I'm gonna burn myself. Well, my training was to immediately take the guy down, which

54:25

I did. And I got the lighter out of his hand. And I told these guys who came to help the younger guys at the mission,

54:36

I said, you gotta call up the place that I work at, I gave them the number and everything, gotta call them and tell them what happened.

54:42

Well, I found out later that they spent five hours trying to perform an exorcism on this guy.

54:49

And to be honest with you, I didn't see him again. He didn't come again for treatment. He was so misguided and not giving the right information that it was really bad.

55:02

Bipolar disorder is very humbling and some people get very humbled and they need to realize that you can and will come out of this.

55:12

You can get the right treatment. You don't have a demon in you as possible, but it's rare. Science is realizing more and more of the brain and what goes on in it.

55:28

It's just amazing the research they're doing on it. And of course, there is great value,

55:36

I think of vital importance that one is a member of a church. Not that biblically sound churches are infallible, but to have that guidance where all options are explored and where you're not making decisions on your own, where you're not going off to see some charlatan faith healer who's going to do more damage to you than before you entered through the doors of that church or something.

56:09

But thank you, Linda. Thank you for the excellent question. Make sure we have your full mailing address in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, so you can receive a free copy of the book we are addressing and that will be shipped out to you from cvbbs .com

56:22

once they get a hold of it. In fact, when we come back from the break, let's address part two of our question which we really didn't fully address.

56:32

Now we're going to the longer station break, so please be patient with us as we take this longer break.

56:39

Write down the information provided by our advertisers and write down questions for our guests at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

56:46

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And as always, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

56:52

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

56:58

We'll be right back, God willing, right after these messages with Steve Bloom. James White here, co -founder of Alpha Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

57:24

I'm so delighted. My friend Chris Arnson will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 Conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

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A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Josh Weiss, yours truly, and many more.

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I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, Senior Pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join

59:26

Chris and me at the Deep South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th through Saturday, January 26th here in Laurel.

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If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be disappointed.

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Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia, Dr.

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I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

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01:04:32

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Steve Lawson, Founder and President of One Passion Ministries, as well as Teaching Fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as Professor of Preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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Before we return to our guest Steve Bloom, we just have some events that we want to make sure you are aware of that we hope that you attend, that I will be attending as well.

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In fact, the first event is an event that I myself have orchestrated and that is the

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Sorry, we're not including the ladies or the wives of pastors. This is just for men who are either pastors, elders, deacons, or leaders in parachurch ministry.

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It's going to be held Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m., God willing, at the

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He is going to be speaking on the profound theme, the meaninglessness of life and the destruction of Western society without God.

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Every man who attends is not only going to be fed physically for free and spiritually for free with a message from Dr.

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Tony Costa, but you're going to be leaving that place with sacks filled with brand new books that have been donated by most of the major Christian publishers in the

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These books that I select personally every year going back to the 1990s when my dearly departed late wife, my precious late wife

01:11:32

Julie, came up with the idea for the pastor's luncheons to begin with. This is her brainchild and these pastor's luncheons that we hold subsequent to her going home to Christ for eternity are being conducted in her honor and tribute to her, my precious late wife

01:11:50

Julie. If you would like to attend this free luncheon for men in ministry leadership, just send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:12:04

and put luncheon in the subject line. We will get you all the information that you need to attend.

01:12:11

There is no hidden agenda, no ulterior motive, there's nothing for sale at all at the luncheon.

01:12:17

It's all being done to bless men in the ministry with a fun time of rest and relaxation, fun and fellowship, great food and a challenging message from God's Word by a very gifted speaker.

01:12:29

Those were the instructions of my late wife Julie and I've never departed from them. She never wanted any ulterior motive involved in these luncheons and no money -making efforts to be involved.

01:12:43

It's all absolutely free. chrisarnsen at gmail .com is the email address. chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:12:49

put luncheon in the subject line. Then immediately following that from Friday January 4th through Sunday January 6th,

01:12:57

Dr. Tony Costa is going to be speaking at a three -day Bible conference and that is going to be held at the

01:13:06

Enola First Church of God in nearby Enola, Pennsylvania where my friend

01:13:12

George Jensen is the pastor. Dr. Costa is going to be speaking on the theme contending for the faith the church in a post -modern world and this unlike the pastor's luncheon is open to everybody man woman of child

01:13:28

Christian or non -christian you are welcome to attend and if you want more details on this conference which once again is

01:13:34

January 4th through the 6th that's Friday through Sunday you can call 717 -732 -4253 that's the phone number of the

01:13:42

Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania 717 -732 -4253 or you can go to the website enolacog .com

01:13:57

forward slash bible dash conference and you can get all the information that you need to attend that free conference.

01:14:06

Then coming up later in the month of January I am going to be God willing for the third year in a row manning an exhibitors booth at the

01:14:14

G3 conference which stands for gospel grace and glory that's being held at the

01:14:20

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park Georgia a suburb of Atlanta they are expecting between four and five thousand people to attend this conference on the theme the mission of God a biblical understanding of missions that's

01:14:35

Thursday January 17th through Saturday January 19th also keep in mind there is a special Spanish -speaking edition of the conference being held on Wednesday January 16th so tell your

01:14:47

Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that Spanish -speaking edition but the

01:14:53

English -speaking edition of the conference has a huge roster of speakers as it always does

01:14:59

I mean you you will rarely find a list this long and this impressive of speakers at any conference

01:15:06

Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

01:15:12

Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio, Stephen J.

01:15:20

Nichols the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries and many other are on this lineup if you'd like to register go to g3conference .com

01:15:30

g3conference .com I strongly urge you if you are a pastor of a church a leader of a parachurch ministry a business owner or you're running a special event that you want advertised

01:15:46

I strongly urge you to ask about manning your own exhibitors booth I don't know how many spots they have available last week they only had 10 so if you want to man your own exhibitors booth

01:15:59

I would do so quickly at g3conference .com g3conference .com because of the fact that as I said they are expecting between four and five thousand people to attend this so it's an excellent way to promote whatever it is that you want to promote g3conference .com

01:16:15

and then even further towards the end of the month I will be attending for the very first time the

01:16:21

Deep South Founders Conference God willing uh this is being held at the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel Mississippi this will be my first time ever visiting the state of Mississippi and I'm eagerly looking forward to that it's on the theme of sanctification and the speakers include

01:16:38

Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, in fact Jason Goodwin is my guest on Iron Sherpens Iron this

01:16:45

Wednesday God willing, and Bobby Crenshaw and the keynote speaker is

01:16:51

Dr. Conrad Mbewe pastor of Coboata Baptist Church Lusaka Zambia Africa and Chancellor of African Christian University I think he is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet earth today.

01:17:02

If you want to register for the Deep South Founders Conference go to deepsouthfounders .com deepsouthfounders .com

01:17:10

Last but not least if you love Iron Sherpens Iron radio and you don't want the show to disappear from the airwaves

01:17:17

I have an urgent plea for you to donate like you've never donated before as we enter into what look like they may be very scary times financially for us again if you love the program you benefit from the guests and the topics you hear every day sometimes we have guests and topics that are never heard anywhere else if you love sharing the mp3s the free mp3s with family friends and loved ones then please go to ironsherpensironradio .com

01:17:49

click support then click click to donate now and donate as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can to help us remain on the air if you want to mail us a check via snail mail there will be an address that appears on the screen when you click support at ironsherpensironradio .com

01:18:05

keep in mind I always try to remember to remind you that I never want anybody siphoning money away from their regular giving that they're accustomed to to their local church in order to give to ironsherpensironradio also never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to ironsherpensironradio those two things are commands of God providing for church and home and providing for ironsherpensironradio is obviously not a command of God but if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands please consider donating to ironsherpensironradio at ironsherpensironradio .com

01:18:40

click support then click click to donate now if you want to advertise with us send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:18:51

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe you don't have to believe identically with me to advertise but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with what

01:19:06

I believe then send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com and we will help you launch an ad campaign immediately because we certainly do need your advertising dollars to remain on the air that's also the email address where you could send in a question to our guest today steve bloom on mental illness that's chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:19:25

chrisarnson at gmail .com and as you know steve before the break we had a question we had two questions from our guest linda in hilltop lake texas and we addressed one of those and i don't think that we really adequately addressed her second question what is your recommendation when a family member begins to show changes in behavior like paranoia overwhelming sadness anguish and distress yeah i think at that point uh if it's been for for more than uh two weeks that it'd be good to go to a pastor who might be aware of mental illness and how to treat it um but even more so to try to get lined up with a psychiatrist um which would just take a look and talk about these things and and uh i think that would be important and especially if they're having the paranoia um if they're having uh hearing voices if they're if they have a loss of words or loss of energy all this should somehow have a mental health professional that would kind of set these things out well the hearing the hearing of voices is an extremely uh huge factor in the mix as to whether or not it's involving a mental illness because obviously those other things uh can be demonstrated by people who might be on the verge of losing a job their marriage is in trouble they might be paranoid that their spouse is cheating on them they you know they're and there's a basis for it isn't isn't it a lot of this uh whether or not this is a mental health issue involving whether there is a logical reason for those things to be manifested manifested in the life of that person because if there is a plausible explanation for them to have those things as opposed to them coming out of thin air for no apparent reason that could be a difference between night and day right yeah that could be uh you know as i said before you have to do the what you know what what is this and what is that as far as the diagnosis um paranoia if it's uh to an extreme um if it actually people are saying i i know the fbi is you know following me or i know that the they have paranoia about um people have paranoia about whether or not they're going to die of the illness um and so i think that's what you know we had the dsm -5 some people don't like that but the dsm -5 is pretty thorough because you can you can look up these things and then you can see which which are differentials and which aren't um so but yeah as far as uh uh paranoia hearing voices yeah i mean that's uh you know that's a that's a hallmark of schizophrenia um i don't know you need anything more than that no i think that's sufficient and thank you very much linda and make sure we have your full mailing address in hilltop lake texas we have a question from lucas in cologne germany deutschland the fatherland uh his first question is i heard that you do not like german people i don't know how you got that idea i love i love the fatherland um we uh the the question for you uh steve is how do you care how do you categorize the mental illness or how do you measure the degrees of an illness i guess there are obviously i don't guess there certainly are degrees of severe usually you have to uh you have to meet uh five or more uh problems uh and and if if you know about bipolar if you know schizophrenia and usually you have to go through that and you have to um you know see which symptoms are really uh said to you know cause you to have uh actually cause you to have uh a difficulty in your job or in your social life or in your love life uh these these can be uh signs and a hallmark sign of mental illness is that it affects person persons greatly in that area you know and it becomes uh just a long time having it well uh lucas uh also this uh as i've been repeating this goes for you as well if you have a family or friend family member or friend in the we will ship that to that individual free of charge uh because of your question that you submitted today as i said earlier we don't have cvbbs .com

01:24:43

ship books overseas we're outside the boundaries of the united states because the shipping costs are astronomical outside of the 50 states of the united states so let us know if you have that individual uh here in the states that can receive the book on your behalf thank you oh and you'll also receive being a first time questioner you'll receive a free new american standard bible if you uh can locate somebody here in america or united states to receive that book and uh let's see here we have a listener right here in carlisle pennsylvania simon and i have to enlarge simon's question because of the tiny font and once again while i'm doing that our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com

01:25:36

if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own chris arnson at gmail .com

01:25:43

and simon's question is what principles do you use to determine let's see i gotta enlarge this what principles do you use to determine a person's behavior is the result of their sin or mental health well mental health is not going to do anything about uh sin uh you know the i mean it's the bible has a saint it has a savior you know it has the lord so um you know i don't really think there's you know that much of a problem there no what i think what simon's asking is like for instance sometimes like i'll give you an example a person might be suffering from ongoing unrelenting depression and it might be it might be because that person is a christian who is having his or her conscious grave grave because they're unrepentant in some kind of sin they're they're they have a private sin that's unconfessed and unrepentant of you know might be that kind of a thing other than some uh mental illness problem and i would i would probably think that that would be what is going on the majority of times not always but it's probably i mean we are in a fallen world and every person no matter how sanctified and godly they are they have sin in their lives so yeah if you could well yeah exactly and uh you know there is such a thing as like joe he he had attacked from the devil directly he also attacked through his friends um and a lot of times um depression is quite uh prevalent in uh or like you said it might be because they're they're uh they have a sin um uh in a book that we quotes uh um charles spurgeon on uh you know what are the i think it's 30 reasons for desertion what do you call parent desertion and so that that's really good to look at too because you know you i mean there are things that yeah happen to you are not mental illness they're you know if if you're not saved you may be very depressed and there are other things of course that that can come in like you say spiritually so you have to be very aware of the spiritual aspect um it had him in the ezra like psalm i think it is what 88 uh we have that in our book that also also shows you a man who was very uh uh much um a part of the old testament worship and uh he talks in psalm 88 about how horrible he has it now he may have had a mental illness or not but there you've got people like elijah we didn't have a full -blown mental illness but he certainly had had things that uh that he had to be corrected about as far as his ministry um and so yeah i think you gotta be you gotta try to you know have the the right medicines for the problem not have a one -size -fits -all or lord jones used to say not have a patent remedy in your pastoral counseling but be understanding well uh thank you simon and uh please keep checking with cvbbs .com

01:29:13

right here in carlisle pennsylvania on north hanover street uh to see when they receive the books that we are giving away since you live in carlisle you could pick up there rather than have cvbbs spend the money to ship it to you so uh keep checking up with them and their toll -free number to find out when they receive the books uh we are going now to our final break it's going to be much more brief than the previous break if you have questions to ask of our guest steve bloom please do so now because we're rapidly running out of time and the email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:29:54

chris arnzen at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter in fact uh i'm going to read a question for you it's an anonymous question steve uh this is from someone outside of the united states it's interesting we have the united nations listening to iron shepherd's iron radio today but this is somebody from outside of the united states who wants to remain anonymous and uh this person asks what would steve say is the proper order of steps to take to diagnose someone my wife seems to struggle with anxiety at times but we aren't really sure what is best to do in many it may be our kids are a little terrorist causing stress or outside family problems taking its toll but maybe it is actually a problem i mean perhaps he means a mental health problem uh kind of seems like it spikes at times and then is good for a while okay we'll have you address that question when we return from our final break and once again our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

01:31:27

chris a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away we'll be right back after these messages god willing got to tell you for my money chris arnzen's radio program is just the best iron criticizing i think that's what it's called this is todd freel of wretched radio and tv with phil johnson of grace to you inviting everybody to come to the g3 conference which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country and it is it's a great conference i love it and chris arnzen was there last year he's been there i think every year it's great to see him there you and i actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place which is a highlight tons of stuff going on tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear chris arnzen's laugh and that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join phil me chris and a cavalcade of great preachers so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me g3 conference .com

01:32:39

g3 conference .com iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by harvey cedars a year -round bible conference and retreat center nestled on the jersey shore harvey cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400 for generations christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at harvey cedars each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about god's word an additional 9 000 come annually to harvey cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles from new york city 70 miles from philly and 95 miles from wilmington and easily accessible scores of notable christian groups frequently planned conferences at harvey cedars like the navigators intervarsity christian fellowship campus crusade and the alliance of confessing evangelicals find harvey cedars on facebook or at hcbible .org

01:33:49

hcbible .org call 609 -494 -5689 609 -494 -5689 harvey cedars where christ finds people and changes lives hello my name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas the word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing do you have the desire to serve jesus christ in pastoral ministry 20 years ago the institute of reformed baptist studies at westminster seminary california was born for those two decades these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in reformed baptist churches it's been a wonderful partnership now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the master of divinity degree this is irbs theological seminary we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of god that jesus christ is god in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune god in all things irbs theological seminary is dedicated by god's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines do you sense a call to serve jesus christ in his church as a pastor why not consider irbs theological seminary you'll find more information at irbs seminary .org

01:35:30

that's irbs seminary .org two s's in the middle i hope to hear from you soon god bless you paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of christ hi i'm mark lukens pastor of providence baptist church we are a reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofolk massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near norfolk massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

01:36:52

that's providence baptist church ma .org or even on sermonaudio .com providence baptist church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio i'm dr gary kimbrough pastor bethlehem baptist church in laurel mississippi god tells us in james 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction in the providence of god three years ago i discovered a poor small church outside lusaka zambia in a township called cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans i found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding what was i to do could i just say god bless you and walk away the situation of the children set heavily upon me as i was praying concerning this need it came to me i trust from the lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is 73 dollars per month per child if just 50 of us would give 35 a month we could meet the need bethlehem baptist church will pay the fee to get the funds there so if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans please send your gift of any amount to bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or donate through our website bbclaurel .com

01:38:07

again the address is bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or bbclaurel .com

01:38:16

thank you every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org

01:39:26

that's liyfc .org linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

01:40:20

that's linbrookbaptist .org james white of alphanamega ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know i have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good i'm so delighted i discovered post tenebrous lux bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but i'll give it a shot jeffrey rice of post tenebrous lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan all his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in italy used for my nestle all in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a french tannery used to rebind a reformation study bible i used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous lux bible rebinding go to ptl bible rebinding .com

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that's ptl bible rebinding .com listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics if you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org

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they feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters pastor joe jackowitz pastor robert gifford al martin edward delcour and more firstloveradio .org

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also live streams my iron trepans iron radio program daily please stick around on firstloveradio .org

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after iron trepans iron radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace spread the word about firstloveradio .org

01:43:29

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ -exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid - ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and please help solid ground christian books dig their way out of the financial setback that they experienced after the founder mike gadosh went into emergency surgery to correct a very serious heart defect uh during that time being laid up in the hospital and recovery they experienced a very serious financial setback at solid ground christian books so please help them replenish that was which was lost by doing most if not all of your christmas shopping while there is still time at solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com and remember you can also order titles published by solid ground christian books from cvbbs .com

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our other sponsor because cvbbs .com is a book distributor not a publisher and they carry all of solid ground christian books titles so if you want to make it to the 50 mark required for your free shipping if you want to make that mark faster make a long list of books that you want at solid -ground -books .com

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and then go to cvbbs .com and order them that way you can help both of our sponsors at the same time we are now back with our guest steve bloom and this is the final 15 minutes of our of our interview today and if you would like to join us on the air with a question do so now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time we are discussing mental illness specifically his book the pastoral handbook of mental illness and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:46:09

chrisarnson at gmail .com give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter and that is the case with this anonymous guest i'm sorry anonymous listener from outside of the united states who says what would steve say is the proper order of steps to take to diagnose someone my wife seems to struggle with anxiety at times but we aren't really sure what is best to do and maybe just our kids our little terrors causing stress or outside family problems taking its toll but maybe it is actually a problem and i am assuming i'm inserting here a mental health problem uh kind of seems like it spikes at times and then is good for a while uh so steve you have any answers for our anonymous listener well yeah i think first of all there's a difference between clinical anxiety and and normal everyday anxiety um that's important uh also at the same time there's all different uh they call it ocd spectrum uh which has things like separation anxiety that might be a somebody doesn't want to be behind somebody's behind uh uh a person that would you know be afraid of um they might think of their kids are going to be taken from just being a terrorism i've had that also terrorism with of kids or the anxiety that comes from it um but uh also those uh hypochondriasis that people have the as part of the anxiety disorder is that you know hypochondriasis is where you uh you think something's wrong with you i recently had a woman that i counseled she was convinced absolutely that she had lou gehrig syndrome and in fact she had gone to a place to to help with that uh syndrome or she had gone online i should say and uh she just she would ask me over and over again um do you think i have uh lou gehrig syndrome and i said no i don't do you think i know and finally um i told her look you've got to get on an antidepressant go to your doctor and he put her on effect sore and that problem was gone away so the severe the severe you can see more but there's such thing as generalized anxiety which uh women tend to have more than men um and anxiety disorders a lot of times need some behavioral uh treatment uh they may be afraid that uh agoraphobia uh because they have panic attacks they're afraid to go you know outside the home and uh and you have to deal with that not only with medications but also ease them out bit by bit you know desensitize them like somebody who is afraid of snakes get some snakes put them around them but i'll let them get them and you know gradually do that so um but yeah uh that's that's what i'm assuming i'm assuming you do that with non -poisonous snakes yeah yeah i don't believe in that you're not a snake healer yeah well you could say spiders on poisonous spiders also but uh but yeah so anxiety is you know in the i think we have four different uh chapters on anxiety um and generalized anxiety is quite common among women and it has to relate a lot of times to their kids or just having a sense of dread about them and uh and also can it you know can a person be stop having anxiety i mean it may peak or so but can they actually you know without medications or can they not have anxiety you know i mean something that led to quote philippians four where you know it talks about the anxious for nothing but by everything with prayer and supplication let your request be made known to god i've done that when i was in the midst of a horrible depressive um episode and it had agitation with it and i still did the best i could as far as bringing it before the lord and he helped me but he didn't take the take that away he helped me get through it and it's a lot of love and philippians four you know cast all your cares upon him for he cares for you that philippians or first peter i can't remember i mean first peter well uh well thank you to our anonymous uh listener and um sorry we don't have any books left for you but uh uh perhaps you can uh go to cvbbs .com

01:51:19

and order the book if you'd like to receive that um i also want to give a plug to an interview i did with my former pastor mark grimaldi g -r -i -m as in mary a -l -d as in david i grimaldi and mark is spelt with a c -m -a -r -c if you go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:51:43

and you click on past shows podcast and you type in grimaldi in search engine g -r -i -m as in michael a -l -d as in david i uh one of the uh interviews that i conducted with mark was regarding his book that he wrote uh which is involving his own struggle with ocd since my guest mentioned ocd i've just figured i'd throw that out there it might be a fascinating interview for you to hear and you could also order the book uh and find out more about how pastor grimaldi overcame that issue i also want to just say for the record that uh i personally think people have to be very very cautious about using medications and only use that as a last result after you've heard a multiple heard from multiple counselors on the issue because i've seen and heard from too many people whose lives were negatively and tragically affected by medications improperly prescribed i could say that it's interesting i have a i have battled depression for quite a long time but the depression isn't uh based on some mystery that comes out of nowhere i mean a lot of it has to do with grieving the loss of my wife right and and and it i am i i understand my my well -meaning friends but it actually also disturbs me a little bit uh that immediately when i mentioned to christian friends that i'm depressed have you got a prescription i mean that's like the immediate thing that comes out of their mouth right and i know how i have to be very careful and christians have to be very careful these days not to um act as if they are pharmaceutical authorities and tell people never under any circumstances get a prescription because you might wind up leading to that person's death you're talking to right you might even wind up leading to their death by suggesting a prescription so it's a it's a very tricky area isn't it in this day and age especially yes it is yeah and that's why i go back to lloyd jones who taught me a lot you don't have the pastoral remedy you know you don't have um the pattern remedy you just don't give the same thing brother oh why did you get on meds oh you got adhs put them on meds oh you know you have to get the whole picture and and that's what we like about the book is that we really had that opportunity and credibles wanted us to do it to put it all on paper and the pastoral counselors should have awareness of that so we don't have those kind of problems on both sides of the point of it said yeah in fact the martin lloyd jones uh i can't remember right now if you mentioned it but he wrote the classic work on spiritual depression yes yeah that's that is a that is a very good non -biological um book one of the best ever written is spiritual depression that's causing them scares and and uh dr martin lloyd jones was actually an md he was a physician he was a physician yes in fact later on with lloyd jones um some people uh tried to say that you know he didn't really believe in biological depression but uh if you look at one of his oldest um books that he wrote healing and medicine and he talks and he actually says um in there you know you got to watch out for people it's cruel if they have a mental illness and you don't you don't treat that so here's a guy a tremendous pastoral uh theology and had in teaching that but also seeing as an md yeah there is a difference well i want you now to summarize uh what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding this subject and regarding your book before we go off the air uh you mean what do i want them to i want you to have like three minutes of time uninterrupted where you just summarize what you most want our listeners to remember today okay yeah i want you to remember that um god loves you unconditionally no matter what and that jesus christ died for your sins jesus himself was actually depressed in the garden of gethsemane we talked about that in broken minds uh where he was in uh horror of uh what might what was going to befall him and uh the lord brought him through that and he'll never desert anyone who knows christ because christ has already been deserted for them so i would i would say that i'll ask this number two is there's help you don't have to do it alone um our book helps direct you to various places but it's good to have a local person in a local area local counselor who thinks like and uh and have more pastors and you know i can i'm a example of i had biological depression i was horribly suicidal my sister committed suicide at age 53 wow um she left behind three kids and a husband and she had bipolar disorder so runs in my family but i read somewhere when i was depressed don't commit suicide because for your children uh it might do it also and so yeah it could be spiritually you know but but you have to just really and i i mean i was told i didn't i couldn't feel better and so i was months and months without being fully treated for my mental illness which was now bipolar 2 disorder and so i'm not out to try to uh you know telling the people that this is the way it has to be done but depression mental illnesses are neurodegenerative so if you miss them uh it can be if you miss them yeah it can it can be a problem for your uh depression might get worse uh there are some that and there's senators it's just all kinds of anorexia nervosa bulimia all of them are covered in the book and uh and i i i refer to it i don't um because i think the previous editors have been my wife and i went through all of that and it really comes out of our uh out of our uh actual experience and also my training uh in the area of psychiatric disorders that i had for years with psychiatrists psychologists and psychiatric nurses well i also want to make sure our listeners know that your website is heartfeltmin .org

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heartfeltmin that's heartfeltmin .org and that is the website for heartfelt counseling ministries and you could get in touch with steve bloom at that website you could also order his book from cvbbs .com