July 23, 2019 Show with Nate Pickowicz on Small-Town Ministry in the Liberal Mission Field of New England

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio

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Dot -com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 23rd day of July 2019 and I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest named

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Nate pickowitz He is pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire He is the author of reviving

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New England and why we're Protestant is working on a new book that will have him mentioned in a bit and Today we are addressing

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Small -town ministry in the liberal mission field of New England and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio

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Pastor Nate pickowitz. Hey, thank you Chris. I appreciate it Well for our listeners who have missed you on your previous

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Guest appearances on iron sharpens iron radio I don't know if you would call it rightly an appearance on radio when no one can see you

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I can never figure that out. But anyway, I think your last times as a guest on iron sharpens iron radio

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Those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with the Harvest Bible Church and Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire Why don't you tell our listeners about that?

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Sure, so Harvest Bible Church is very different than Harvest Bible Chapel. I always want to make that very clear

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Especially this year. We couldn't have picked a worse name for ourselves I think seven years ago than we did but that's just the way it is.

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That's also in your hometown there Yes, so we're we're in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire. So I grew up in this town.

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It's a small town It's a fraction of what it used to be in its heyday, which maybe we'll talk about that later

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It's a fascinating thing, but it's a small rural town not much doing and I grew up here going to church traveling to go to church and Later on was called the ministry and decided to come back to my hometown and plant a

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Bible Church right here And so we planted this church in 2013 So we're in year seven now, which has been really great and ministries going well families growing churches growing just really praising

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God for his faithfulness and Do you mind telling us why it's such a horrible thing that people may confuse you with Harvest Bible Chapel Well, so Harvest Bible Chapel for those who don't know was a ministry

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I believe that James McDonald either founded or took over or whatever it may be, but they've just had a lot of problems.

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There's tons of campuses all over the place and You know, there have been just allegations of abuse and all kinds of other things conduct and it's just not gone well for them

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My heart really goes out to all the pastors and churches that are under that umbrella who are struggling right now, so People always want to ask if we're associated with that and we're not we're our own

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We're an EFC a church evangelical free, but we're basically autonomous.

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We're a non -denominational church. So Just just a name that we picked seven years ago.

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So Yeah, and you already had that name when they moved into town and decided to call their church something nearly identical

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Yeah, so we I mean Harvest Bible Chapel goes way back for several years.

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So it was just one of those things I didn't you know, I'm actually kind of the one who suggested the name initially There was a bunch of people we were talking, you know, we had a core group of people who we were launching with but I just liked the name and it seemed to fit, you know

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There's a verse in John the talks about the harvest is plentiful the laborers are few that really typifies

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New England and it really typifies Any any region that's difficult? I mean, there's lots and lots of ministry regions that are very challenging

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And so that reality is certainly true. So it just seemed like a name that was gonna stick and we went with it

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So there you go. No. No what I meant was did you have the name first before Harvest Bible Chapel moved into town?

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So they're not in our town, oh I thought I guess you've misunderstood me earlier I said they're in the same hometown as you are and you said yes.

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Oh No, no, no. No. No, there's uh, we have one blinking light in my town Here they're not here so Yeah, I don't think

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I don't honestly think that most people in this area even know what that unless they unless they're familiar with James McDonald or the or any of the controversy going

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I don't think most people really know so it hasn't been an issue for us here No one's really given us a hard time.

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It's been fine. It hasn't it's not it's fine So it's just mostly like when I you know, talk to people outside of our area or people who know what's going on It's it's a challenge for sure.

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Okay, and now we've got to know about the Fellowship Conference, New England in Portland, Maine Where you are speaking along with my dear friend

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Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas and a number of other folks Why don't you tell us about this conference coming up?

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Yeah, so this is the third year that I've been a part of this conference They started this several years ago in Portland, Maine and for anybody who knows anything about Portland, Maine It's a it's a larger city for our area.

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I mean, it's not huge like a Boston Boston or New York But it's a good -sized city and they really have struggled in you know

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The recent years to have a strong presence of the gospel. There are churches there. There are good churches there, but they're not large

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It's not a far expansive ministry for the most part So there's a this associated with a church plant that's there some friends of ours the

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Hebert family And so this conference is kind of attached to that ministry and it just brings in speakers pastors

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Just to come and minister the word and it's grown every single year I've been a part of it and we meet at a community church there and It's just a really wonderful time the people who are there are just very sincere and eager for the ministry of the word

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Very sweet people good fellowship good time with these people. So there's nothing really flashy about it

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Which is why I like it so much It's really just a conference of biblical preaching and good fellowship and a whole bunch of books and so that's

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That's really the essence of the fellowship conference And I know that the speakers include pastor

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Anthony Mathenia who's Paul washers pastor at Christ Church in Radford, Virginia Pastor Lee Dodd who

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I've had on this program really enjoyed and interviewing Lee Who is actually going to be my guest on the 31st of July Wednesday the 31st of July?

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and as I said before pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas and You so I know one of the things that is unique about Fellowship conference

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New England is that there is never one central theme They allow the pastors just to preach on anything that is burdening them

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Burdening their hearts and minds to talk about have you yet selected what you are going to preach on?

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Yeah, I at least I think I have I haven't heard back if this is in a conflict with anybody else's preaching calendar you always hear the horror stories about getting you know to a

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Preaching or preaching situation and the person who's going before you is doing your exact same text

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I've heard of that happening to guys, so I always get nervous, but this year my goal is to preach from Colossians chapter 1

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I'm going to be covering the exalted nature of Christ So I'm just going to work from verses 15 to 20, which is what's called the hymn of the incarnation

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And it's really just a you know an opportunity to exalt Christ. I mean, it's really one of the most beautiful Christological passages in the

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New Testament, so that'll be my first session and the second session. I'm working on is out of John chapter 15

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When Jesus commands them to abide in him, so I think sometimes we You know we do one of the other we want to say we want to abide in Christ But we don't really know who

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Christ is and so therefore our attempts to abide and remain and obey him

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Fall short because we don't understand who he is But the inverse problem is that we can magnify

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Christ, and we can see him clearly But then we we sort of can put him on in a place where we don't identify and don't desire to Be in him as Paul says and so that my goal is to try to marry the two and really help the

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The conference attenders to just sort of see it. Maybe just a little bit more clearly

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It's a theme I've been wrestling with for a few years now even in ministries to try to Help believers to understand what it means to be in Christ It changes everything.

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It's not just about believing and getting saved so to speak There's there's an abiding nature of the

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Christian faith that I really want to try to capture so I'm excited about the two texts I'm excited about this that theme if it's if it works out and Just really

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I'm looking forward to bringing that to faithful believers and just try to encourage them in the faith

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So really excited about that well I plan on repeating this information later, but in case anybody has to leave listening to the program earlier than normal The pro the conference will be held

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August 1st through the 3rd at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland Maine and if you want more details go to fellowship conference

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New England calm fellowship conference New England calm and once again, that is

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August 1st through the 3rd and that's in the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine and Those days of the week are

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Thursday Friday and Saturday so a great way to have a elongated weekend at a

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Bible conference Now tell us something about The new book you're working on so I kind of I kind of tricked you because I'm working on a couple things right now and I'm not really sure which thing to talk about, but I know you and I before the program

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We're talking about one that I'm working on with Justin Ben. She's a good friend of mine we're writing a book on the

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American Puritans and we've signed with Reformation Heritage Books and We're working on that right now as we speak and hopefully going to get that out by June of next year

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That's the goal. I you know publishing is always tricky because there's all kinds of timelines, but The goal is to have it out by by mid -summer next year.

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So That's that's something I've been working on Puritans for a while, especially American Puritans and New England Preachers and just something

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I'm really impassioned about And so that's that's kind of a big thing I've got going on right now and I've also working on some reprints as well.

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I continue to do that That doesn't ever stop. So there's all kinds of I'm always working on some kind of a project in the moment.

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So That's kind of the most present thing on my mind right now. Well, you've just reminded me

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I've got a call Dustin Benj again because we have been playing email tag he is supposed to be my guest on iron trip and Zion radio to discuss his doctoral dissertation the angelology of Jonathan Edwards and So I hope to get him on very soon.

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Yeah, he actually was an instructor for one of my pastor's mother

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Mary Who is actually a listener in this audience for iron trip and Zion radio?

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She lives in Cork, Ireland. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, and she As an instructor

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Dustin Benj if I'm not mistaken, I believe that's even when I first Heard actually no, actually

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I first heard about Dustin from you when yeah when I was helping him find Helping helping him

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Candidate for a church that was without a pastor at the time. Yes. Yeah.

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Yeah I mean really you should hang up the phone and call him and have him on I'm sure you're equally

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Fine and no, he's he's a great friend. I really I mean we both Have an appreciation for one another in terms of ministry, but even just as friends

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He's just he's just a very dear brother and does some really good work But the ministry is doing in Ireland is fantastic and I I've been slowly learning more about it

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But it's um, I'm sure he'll tell you more when he when he comes on the show, but it really is it's it's college -level instruction for Church members who are part of a church planting network and it's a way for them to get just top -tier

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Instruction from some of the best teachers in the world that come right to Ireland And so every year Justin has gone over the last couple years

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Munster Bible College, what's that Munster Bible College Munster Bible College? That's right

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He's flown out there and just done a great work and I mean between you me and the wall And of course all your listeners,

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I'm hoping to get something like that even started up here I'd love to see that happen in New England, but that's that's a different dream for a different day

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But it's a really wonderful program for sure Great. Well, let's get into our theme now our theme is

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A small time small time To say small town ministry in the liberal mission field of New England and One of the things

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I may have even brought this up with you before Because we've discussed similar things.

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In fact, obviously reviving New England is sort of a your book reviving New England is a lot to do with what we're gonna discuss today.

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I'm assuming One of the thing that has always One of the things that has always amazed me is how

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New England went from being a central hub in The United States or should

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I say America because this began before we were these United States Central hub of Bible believing genuine authentic Puritan Christianity This is where the

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Ivy League schools were born that were at one time very faithful to the

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Holy Scriptures very faithful to historic Protestant doctrine and theology and Can you give me any clues as to why you think?

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New England went from being this bastion of Biblical orthodoxy to the apostate region of the nation

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That it is now, of course, I mean you could almost say any part of the nation is is apostate but but few had the rich heritage of The Puritans and so on that New England had so it's a farther leap it seems

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Yeah, so the it's interesting because I've been plagued with the question myself because I you know

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I've probably got about five or six theories about Elements that have caused this to happen.

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I mean, I think at the at the largest sort of macro level You know apostasy happens in New England the way that apostasy happens anywhere.

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I mean why? You know, why did things go bad in England, for example after the Reformation and why does anything, you know go south and it's always

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You know spiritual rebellion and hardness of heart and so on and so forth And it always seems to be that the that the spiritual children and grandchildren of the faithful.

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It's always a harder Climb for them. It's always a difficult struggle.

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I've heard even John MacArthur talked about seeing a difference in his own church from when he began to where he is now where he's noticing that the children and grandchildren of the people who

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Began the church or that hired him. It's a harder a harder work for them to stay

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Faithful he wasn't saying it in derogatory way But just that he was noting that it's a difficult struggle and it changes because you're you're trading on The faithfulness of someone else that came before you and so you have to you can't just rest on their laurels

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You have to do the work yourself. You have to be faithful to God yourself. So We do see that in the history of Certainly the

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Puritan movement we see it in history the Baptist movement up here where the next generations. It's always difficult and I think that When you add prosperity into it at one point in history

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The Boston economy was was one of the most thriving economies in the whole country and it actually almost even in the world

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Was a very strong economy. It still is so when you have that level of prosperity and when you just assume

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Christianity and you assume a cultural superiority You can fall very fast and very far

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When you do that, so there's lots of reasons I think why this happened and why it has continued to happen

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But one thing I keep on noticing as I read more and more history of New England Is that it isn't just like it was good once and now it's bad.

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There have been Repeated cycles there's probably been if I were to just take a wild guess maybe six to eight different cycles of apostasy that have happened and we've had to pull ourselves back up and Recommit ourselves over and over again.

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So anytime something good happens That's the reason for the need for the Great Awakening and the

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Second Great Awakening And you know, those are coming out of periods of apostasy. I was talking to my friend

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Dustin bench today again and he we were talking about Timothy Dwight who was the president of Yale in 1795 and by Dwight's estimation there were only about 20 students who were

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Christians on the entire campus at Yale in 1795 so even in the turn of the of the 19th century

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It was a problem and it's a problem again today So we just keep on having to face the same demons over and over and over again

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And so the ministry that I'm in now the people who live here now, it's it's no different at all

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We have to keep on facing that over and over and over again Well, there is another thing that's unique about Your situation it's right in our title of our

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Discussion today the topic that we're discussing small town ministry What can you think of that is different I mean,

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I know you were born and raised in the town that you're in I don't know How much ministry you've done in big cities?

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But there are cities in the United States such as New York City huge city

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That might be equally Opposed to the scriptures to Christians attempting to evangelize them

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I took I'm talking about obviously the average person What could what immediately pops into your mind as far as the difference between that same kind of?

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Atmosphere but in a much smaller scale in a small town Yeah, so when I when

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I wrote reviving New England a couple years ago one of the comments I keep on I kept on hearing was that you know

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What you're describing in New England sounds just like my hometown or my state and they're talking about,

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Missouri Or they're talking about, you know, Arizona or wherever they are even the Bible Belt So, you know the the problem of spiritual

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Darkness and spiritual depression and you know liberal philosophy and so on that's not unique to New England But I think the reason that New England is such a challenging place is that?

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number one You don't have an assumed Christianity and assumed acceptance of Christianity now that can be a good thing and a bad thing

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It's bad obviously because when you go to talk to anybody There's no friendliness at all out out of the gate at least to be able to talk to you

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Like it's just assume that we don't talk about that up here. So Whereas you go to other parts of the country, maybe, you know, even in the

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Bible Belt, maybe a person grew up going to church They might not be saved but at least they're sympathetic to Christianity and so when you're talking to them about the gospel, they're at least familiar enough to be able to interact with you and maybe there is a

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Modicum of faith or at least they fear the Lord on some level that just doesn't exist up here

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Most people just don't even think about it. Don't talk about it So it's just not it's not assumed at all.

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And I mean you have you have the you know, the governor of, Massachusetts Sending out letters

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Telling Christian businesses that they're not welcome in the state. I mean, it's that kind of a oh, yeah that happened a couple years ago

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Chick -fil -a was Officially banned from the state of Massachusetts not that you know, they have the right to do that, but that was a big controversy and So it and the reason was is because of Chick -fil -a's religious stances of some of the members of the organization

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So when you have a political figure saying you're not welcome here to bring business because of your religious

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Standing that that attitude is pervasive up here. I mean, there's just a general hardness against Biblical Christianity so that that is a little bit different and even where I am though not being in a big city

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You just have you just don't have the same kind of witness again. You go to the

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Bible Belt. You're gonna have a lot of Ministries that are you know, possibly false or apostate churches or whatever may be but you're also going to have a large number per capita

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Of Bible churches at least within driving distance, you know, so at least if you don't have something in your own hometown

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You might be able to find something at least within driving distance where you can be fed and you have a spiritual community with believers

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Up here. I mean you have whole counties that don't have a Bible believing church, let alone a gospel preaching church

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So people are having to drive an hour an hour and a half and sometimes they can't find anything and they literally just stay home and there are believers who are church homeless because they can't find a

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Bible church within driving distance from their house. So Yeah, so there's you know, and the churches that are here, you know, if you do have a gospel witness, you're gonna have 40 or 50 people in that church

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And you might only have those 40 people for for 25 years So it's just it's just challenging.

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The resources are smaller. The witness is smaller The the arms length and sort of the web of faithfulness is a lot smaller

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And again, it's not that there aren't faithful churches up here there have been God always has a remnant and I'm really thankful for them but it's just it's very difficult and The spiritual loneliness is pervasive as well.

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And again, I'm not describing anything It doesn't exist anywhere else, but the level of it. It's it's it's it's expansive across six whole states

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This is a regional territorial problem Yeah, you when you were talking about how abominably leftist your governor is

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It just reminded me of a guest that I've had on this program from Massachusetts a pastor the first time he was on to discuss his problems at attempting adoption

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Were done anonymously because the adoption hadn't gone through but then when he had the successful adoption he came back and Revealed who he who he is pastor

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Mark Lukens of Providence Baptist Church in Norfolk, Massachusetts and He Because of the fact that he is an evangelical

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Bible -believing pastor. He actually had a harder time Adopting than a same -sex couple would have had and it's just amazing.

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It's frightening when you think about An adoption agency you you you would have thought that possibly especially a couple of decades ago

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That even a secular adoption agency would be like, oh wow, isn't this great? We have a minister and his wife

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Are going to try to adopt that's just wonderful What a safe place for a child to be and now that is actually a

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Huge strike against somebody in Massachusetts for adopting just just an abomination, I think

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Yeah, so where I am in New Hampshire, the government structure is not quite as We hear a lot more stories like that coming out of places like Massachusetts or Vermont Again, just the cultural temperature

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Is not at all sympathetic or warm toward Christianity New Hampshire for the most part the state motto is live free or die and most people

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Most people abide by that and that so we haven't had too many problems on that level But we have

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I mean when we planted our church I mean there was we had our own challenges with local government and it was you know

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Just you're just dealing with people who are not They're not used to seeing you there and they they are maybe not as sympathetic for you being there

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So it's just a different kind of a challenge. We don't have We don't have any kind of cultural points on our side

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At all, not that we would need them, but it's just not something you can count on. I know that Many of my listeners who listen

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Daily will remember this story because I've told it several times but something you said about comparing what you might experience to the from if you're comparing between the

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Bible Belt and Where you are, even though you might be in an area in the

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Bible Belt that is equally Dead where you have a lot of people raised in the faith.

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They may be In their family tree, you know Ministers going back hundreds and hundreds of years

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But they may be just completely lost and they think they're Christians just because that's what they were born and raised as But it reminded me of a

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Presbyterian pastor from Mississippi a number of years ago. I was having a conversation with him on the phone and He asked me where I was from and I told him

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I was from New York. That's where I lived at the time That's where I was born and raised and he said Well, you got it easy in New York.

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All's you got to do is get people saved down here in Mississippi You got to get people lost first and then get him say

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Right. So at least you don't have to get people lost first Yeah, no,

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I mean that the funny thing about it is and not funny. Haha, but just ironically I'm really thankful for the ministry that we have here

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I mean, I you know my wife and I talk all the time about you know Just different plans and ideas and what the

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Lord could do here and there and I mean, I I don't want to go anywhere else I mean, I love being here.

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I love this state. I love this region. I love the people I love our church and really it's a good ministry because I agree

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You don't have to fight those kinds of battles, you know when someone comes in the door a lot of times they're coming with very very little or nothing at all and You have the blessing of being able to instruct them in the way of sound doctrine for the very first time and so I'm Tremendously thankful for that and I think it's a it's a great kindness of the

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Lord that he had me born here I mean, it's in his Providence that I was born and raised here so I think for a lot of times when

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I when I lament the region when I talk about how Spiritually barren it is the reason

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I do that is because I want to wave a flag I mean, I don't make any bones about that I want to wave a banner to let people know we still need ministers.

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We need church planters. We need revitalization We need ministers to come here and preach the gospel and minister the word and they need to come here and Prepare to die here and be here for 30 or 40 years.

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So whenever I talk about the need it's because of that I want to try to see as much as I can be of influence people come here to do ministry

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But in terms of being here, I love it. It's a great ministry and It's so it's fresh.

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You're not bumping into anything. That's old. I mean, like I said For some people they've never literally never heard the gospel before it's it feels like an unreached people group and so as much as it is hard and challenging and sometimes

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Frustrating it's also wonderful and exciting. So I'm very excited and thankful to be in New England We have to go to our first station break if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for pastor

30:40

Nate pickowitz, our Email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com. See HR.

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I s a r n z e n at gmail .com Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away

31:01

We'll be right back with pastor Nate pickowitz of harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton ironworks,

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New Hampshire on the theme small -town ministry in the liberal mission field of New England When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnson was there last year. He's been there. I think every year

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It's great to see him there You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place with some highlights of stuff going on Yeah, I'm some great speakers and no matter where you are in the building.

33:41

You will hear Chris Arnson's laugh that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join

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God bless you As Host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church

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39:32

Hi, this is John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast

39:42

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

39:52

Christian faith I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing one of the very few safe places on the

39:59

Internet Where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide

40:04

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time and knowing this

40:11

It's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances

40:17

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron

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Financially, would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

40:31

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would all the details can be found at iron sharpens iron

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Radio -dot -com where you can click support that's iron sharpens iron radio dot -com.

40:43

Welcome back This is Chris Arnzen If you just tuned us in our guest today For the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

40:50

Nate Pickowitz who is pastor of Harvest Bible Church at Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire He's an author and we are discussing the theme small -town ministry in The liberal mission field of New England if you would like to join us with a question of your own

41:04

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

41:10

We have RJ in White Plains, New York who has a question for you pastor Nate he said

41:16

I'm assuming that this great need for pastors and church plants and evangelists is

41:24

Well known throughout the evangelical community in the United States Why is it that more churches and even mission organizations are not sending men of God?

41:34

To plant churches and to evangelize in the area in which you live since it is such a barren wasteland theologically and spiritually

41:44

There's a lot of reasons for that It's a challenging thing because as soon as you say there's a need

41:51

You have to assess how to meet it. And so I think there's a lot of a lot of Complex issues surrounding that I think for one when you're talking about revitalization, for example, there are churches up here who?

42:04

Are looking for a solid pastor, but I don't know as if they're ready to receive a pastor

42:11

Who's in a minister the Word of God? I think you have a lot of historic churches a lot of older churches and I mean frankly the

42:18

Unitarian churches taken over quite a few of these older churches a Lot of the mainline denominations have taken over and so they've sort of hijacked the buildings and the ministries and so Revitalization is very challenging.

42:34

And so the opportunities for people to come into this ministry are Difficult as well.

42:40

So, you know a lot of a lot of folks. I mean, let's just talk about it practically You know say you're a young pastor you get out of seminary.

42:47

Maybe you're newly married. Maybe you have a small child You know if you're gonna go pack up everything you have and move from California or Missouri or whatever and go to New England You want to know that there's something they're waiting for you and I understand the need for that to walk into a ministry knowing that you'll be taken care of and that you can minister and You know have enough money to buy a house or whatever.

43:07

It's going to be so I get that and I think that's a harder thing to do And so I I don't know if there's as many opportunities for churches looking to be revitalized

43:18

I think that's a very challenging thing The other option for people that are coming in is church planting and church planting

43:26

That's also challenging because there are obstacles of people. There's obstacles of money And I think you know

43:33

Some agencies are sending and planting churches the North American Mission Board is planting like crazy up here

43:39

The EFCA is planting like crazy I mean a lot of church plants I read one statistic from the

43:45

NAMB It said that 35 % of all the churches in New England have been planted in the last seven years

43:52

And I believe that I've seen a huge influx of church planting happening even since I've been a ministry

43:59

So we are seeing it, but the challenge is that okay? We're still not even outpacing the population growth right now, so It's it's just not as simple as well.

44:11

There's a need. Let's just go meet it You have to figure out how to do it For me to do it again.

44:17

I mean I was born and raised in this town Our financial needs were a lot lesser because we already had

44:24

I was already in I was working at the time We had a young family our income needs were smaller.

44:30

I knew the area We had a sending church that was sending us. We had a sending organization that was sending us

44:35

So I mean the Lord really lined up the opportunity Pretty well for us to come but again.

44:42

I'm local For people that come from outside it is going to be challenging, but it's not impossible so Like any problem if there is a complex solution, but it's it's just it's a very challenging thing

44:56

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania Who says I do not know if you prefer expository preaching over topical?

45:05

But I was wondering if there is any difference in emphasis Knowing of the background of the geography from where you are pastoring then a pastor in another part of the

45:16

United States might have in the way he might deliver a sermon on the same text that you are delivering

45:23

So that I'm very tempted to respond in one fashion, but I'm going to try to be respond in a different fashion only because my focus is on expository preaching and I I bang that drum pretty hard, and I've gotten some criticism from folks especially in this area

45:44

Because I'm so dogmatic about the need for expository preaching But I think it's probably the the most important thing that a ministry can do

45:54

In a ministry and certainly in this ministry up here as a pastor who wants to make friends with other pastors and other churches

46:02

I really do value other ministers who are focused and other churches are focused on expository preaching and the reason is is

46:11

Because even though there is a place and a value for topical preaching and when I say topical preaching

46:16

I just mean preaching on a specific topic that shows up in Scripture or there are a certain theme or a certain idea

46:24

As long as that's done exegetically in other words as long as the topic itself

46:29

Finds its basis in Scripture and not from the pastor's own preferences or political views or social awareness or whatever

46:37

If the topic itself comes from Scripture it can be really helpful And there are some good ways to you know use topical preaching in a ministry however

46:49

When you're looking at a long -term approach to ministry when you're looking at feeding The flock as Jesus tells us to do in the scriptures when you're looking at feeding a people

46:59

For a long period of time you cannot grow a ministry and you cannot grow people through topical preaching

47:06

It's like feeding them spiritual junk food all the time You have to give them more than that and we've already noticed the difference even at our church where people who are here

47:16

Maybe they don't remember every single sermon I don't expect them to But we're covering a lot of ground and we're covering material that we wouldn't have otherwise

47:24

Covered had I been the one to pick everything up on my own and So we've just seen a breadth and a depth of the understanding and the spiritual earnestness and the growth of the people

47:34

They have more tools with how to approach their understanding of their own sanctification their own

47:40

Christian growth Their marriages their lives their families their issues of sin You're just going to equip a church much better And I I believe more faithfully if you are committed to the regular exposition of the scriptures

47:54

Again, I do use topical preaching once in a while if I want to hit a certain point but the regular diet of the people at our church is the consistent exposition of the of the scriptures verse by verse and so I'm very strong on that point.

48:09

Not everybody appreciates my dogmatism about that, but You know, that's what

48:14

I that's what I'm committed to doing and for the listener who is unfamiliar with those distinctions Expository preaching where is where you would be going through Long sections of the

48:26

Bible perhaps a book a book of Romans or something and every Sunday you are exegetically

48:32

Going verse by verse through those chapters and through those books rather than Every week something different like we're going to talk about lust this week and next week.

48:45

We're going to talk about Bigotry and and so on you you're you're going through the text of Scripture and Taking the lead from the the

48:54

God -breathed Words that are found there as to what kind of topic would be formed out of that Yeah, and I think to just put a finer point on that as well.

49:04

I agree with everything You just said the issue also goes back to authority Authority is a huge part of it because if I'm just relying on my own ability to discern the needs of our church

49:15

I mean, I know them, but I don't know them the way the Lord knows them So for me to try to assume

49:20

I know what's best for them on a week -to -week basis frankly is arrogant I'm gonna give them the

49:26

Word of God and so I want to make sure that whatever I'm preaching on Finds its origin in the text of Scripture.

49:33

So again, like I said about topical preaching Let's just say I want to talk about you know financial giving and I want to have a sermon, you know

49:39

That's going to talk about that Well, I'm going to structure that around first and excuse me 2nd Corinthians chapters 8 and 9

49:45

Because that's what those sections of Scripture are about Versus just pulling verses out of the air or proof texting my point

49:55

It's a very different thing when you work from the authorial intent of the Bible and what God intends

50:00

Versus what I want people to know and what I want to tell them so more than just a method of preaching

50:06

There is the issue of authority Which again is sorely needed and people up here need the scriptures churches up here

50:13

You cannot take it for granted that they know the Word of God because in a lot of cases they really don't

50:20

For people going through the Bible. This may be the first time in their entire life. They've ever actually worked through the Bible So I can't stress that enough.

50:28

I think that's the one key to revival is expositional preaching and I'm assuming that Even those churches that are most dedicated to expository preaching something like the tragedy on September 11 2001 occurs when we have a terrorist attack that brought down the

50:51

World Trade Center and Plane flies into the Pentagon and another plane crashes in Pennsylvania even the most expository

51:02

Dedication might be Requiring a break in the the stride to shift to something that was more topically focused on something that has global significance like that Yeah, yeah,

51:15

I mean I frequently will stop. I mean, I mean frankly just on a practical level To just go verse by verse by verse with no break ever.

51:24

You can wear people out I mean, I think that's possible. So probably every six to eight to ten weeks, you know

51:29

I'll take a break and you know I'll preach something else or I'll I'll preach one of the Psalms or something like that a smaller

51:35

Psalm or you know I might have a guest preacher come in or you know, you don't want to tire people out

51:41

That's that's for sure. And you know, there might be events where something happens and you know, you have to address it

51:46

I think that's really important You know, I don't stop for you know, Groundhog Day and every other holiday that comes up Otherwise, I mean you could fill your preaching calendar with 25 holidays and always be doing special messages

52:00

I just don't think that I don't think that that's a way to build I think the best way to build is to really get people invested in the scriptures and then give them a break when they need it

52:11

So yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not advocating to be inflexible and I'm not advocating to be

52:17

To be harsh on on anybody but at the same time Yeah, you I mean if you're going to deal with something like a

52:24

September 11th, you need to deal with it biblically You know, how does God think about what just happened?

52:29

What are we supposed to do? What does the Bible say about how we are to think and feel that's really important.

52:35

Yeah, and unfortunately In the media the response from a multitude of ministers around this nation

52:44

Was a very unbiblical approach. I'm not saying that of course all ministers were reacting on biblically

52:50

But many the especially the ones that were highlighted in the media were God had nothing to do with this

52:59

You know, this has nothing to do with the sins of our nation how dare anybody even think that or you know, you could go on and on with sure the

53:09

The as if God was asleep or something when this happened Or, you know just sat and watched and had nothing to do with in his

53:19

Providence What had occurred so that that's also a very sad thing indeed

53:26

But we have to go to our midway break right now It's a longer than normal break because grace life radio 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they according to FCC regulations have to localize

53:39

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54:23

But use this time wisely to write down the information For our advertisers and patronize them as often as you can and also write down questions for our guest

54:32

Nate Pickowitz on small -town ministry in the liberal mission field of New England And of course, you could broaden your question to a larger scope of questions regarding Christian theology and so on But that's just the main theme that we are discussing and we're hoping to get most of our questions about that But we will permit a larger broader scope and spectrum of questions

54:54

So the email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back with Nate Pickowitz after these messages from our sponsors

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John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the iron sharpens iron podcast

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I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Christian faith I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing is one of the very few Safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised

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Chris up for just such a time And knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in Finances, I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron

01:03:07

Financially, would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:03:14

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would all the details can be found at iron sharpens iron

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and the website again is solid ground books calm solid ground books calm and Whenever you have any kind of gift -giving need coming up.

01:08:33

There's a lot of events coming up in the summer whether they be wedding anniversaries or you're getting ready to send off your your

01:08:41

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01:08:57

Ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within them if they are Christians and either even help them to face all of the

01:09:04

Christ hating People out there in this world that they will no doubt encounter when they go away

01:09:12

Well solid -ground -books .com is the place to go For all your gift -giving needs in addition to your own edification and the building of a solid biblical library

01:09:23

Always remember to tell Mike Adosh and the folks at solid ground Christian books that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens

01:09:30

Iron radio. Well, we have to just make a couple announcements before we return to our guest Nate pickowitz

01:09:37

Nate Will be returning and he's got a story. I'm looking forward to hearing him tell about his hometown

01:09:44

But before we go back to our discussion There's a couple of events coming up that I want you to be aware of events that I hope that as many of you as possible will attend

01:09:56

First of all, we have the conference that we mentioned in the beginning of this show the Fellowship Conference, New England that's being held

01:10:03

August 1st through the 3rd and That is being held at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine and the speakers at this

01:10:12

Conference include our guest today Nate pickowitz in addition pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia Who is also

01:10:20

Paul washers pastor? Pastor Lee Dodd Who's gonna be my guest again on Wednesday the 31st of July?

01:10:30

really wonderful brother and pastor Mac Tomlinson, who is the Main individual involved at spearheading this conference the

01:10:38

Fellowship Conference, New England He is pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas If you would like to attend this conference go to Fellowship Conference, New England calm a

01:10:48

Fellowship Conference, New England calm that is August 1st through the 3rd.

01:10:54

That's a Thursday and Friday and a Saturday Coming up not too far from now

01:11:00

We have another conference that overlaps that one a bit but it's in a different part of the country a completely different part of the country we're talking about the

01:11:11

Providence Theological Institute Conference at the Church at Friendship in Hockley, Texas featuring my dear friend.

01:11:20

Dr Tony Costa professor of apologetics in Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary This is no doubt going to be an excellent event.

01:11:30

I I've seen and heard dr Costa speak many many times especially since I have also

01:11:37

Used him as a speaker as a keynote speaker at a number of events Debates conferences and so on and I'm never bored of dr.

01:11:47

Tony Costa I'm always on the edge of my seat and I'm sure you will be too Some of the topics he'll be speaking on Are the meaninglessness of life without God the authority and inerrancy of Scripture the promised land and the

01:12:02

New Covenant The glorious New Covenant and more and that is

01:12:07

August 2nd through the 4th that is Friday through Sunday and If you live near Hockley, Texas or can take a plane train or automobile to get there

01:12:19

This is at the Church at Friendship as I said and the the website with that with that has all the details is church at friendship org church at Friendship org and then click events at the top of the page

01:12:34

Then in Jen, I'm sorry in December Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th

01:12:40

I am going to be packing up my bags and heading back to my old stopping grounds New York City for the foundations conference

01:12:47

But being held again in the heart of Manhattan during the Christmas season and what better time of year to go to Manhattan and during The Christmas season

01:12:54

I can't wait. That's Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th and the speakers at this event

01:13:02

Are phenomenal as they always are. Dr. Steven J. Lawson The founder of one passion ministries is on the roster

01:13:09

Paul Washer is on the roster Reverend Jeff Thomas Reverend Armin Tomasi and who

01:13:16

I keep telling you I'm I'm not exaggerating when I think when I tell you that I think

01:13:21

Reverend Armin Tomasi and is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade

01:13:27

He is that powerful and gifted. He's a young man a young pastor, but with gifts and abilities and wisdom far beyond his age

01:13:38

I Just look forward to every moment that I have every occasion and Providence that I have to hear

01:13:44

Reverend Armin Tomasi and preach Richard Caldwell jr. And Andrew Quigley are also on the roster

01:13:50

I've not yet heard these brothers preach but since Sermon audio selected them. I am very confident

01:13:56

They are phenomenal if you'd like to join me Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th at the foundations conference in New York City Go to the foundations conference calm of the foundations conference calm and it is a conference for men in ministry leadership

01:14:14

So I hope to see you there if you are in that category Then in January, I'm packing up my bags again and heading down south to Atlanta, Georgia to the

01:14:24

Georgia International Convention Center Technically in College Park, Georgia a suburb of Atlanta for the g3 conference 2020

01:14:32

That's Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th. The g3 stands for gospel grace and glory and the speakers are

01:14:43

Extraordinary as they always are at this event as well one of the largest lineup of speakers

01:14:49

I've ever seen at any conference Kosti Hinn who believe it or not is the nephew of the notorious false teacher

01:14:58

Benny Hinn Kosti on the other hand is A really gifted biblically faithful scripturally

01:15:06

Dedicated doctrinally sound pastor. He's a reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist in California and Spends a lot of his ministry outside of his own pulpit that is

01:15:17

Exposing his own uncle and those that affiliate with him in the word of faith movement for being the deceptive dangerous deadly and damning

01:15:25

Deceivers that they really are he's on the lineup But Darrell Bernard Harrison who is a new addition to the team at grace to you ministries the ministry of John MacArthur David Miller a really phenomenal old -school preacher

01:15:41

Derek Thomas who is a name that is definitely familiar to the vast majority of reformed

01:15:46

Christians My friend. Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is on the roster

01:15:52

Joel Beakey president of the Puritan Reform Theological Seminary Who I've also known going back to the 90s and had to have the privilege of having called him a friend all these years

01:16:06

Again, we have an at this conference Paul Washer and Stephen Jay Lawson Phil Johnson executive director of grace to you ministries the ministry of John MacArthur Stephen Jay Nichols the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:16:22

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries Todd Friel of wretched TV and wretched radio Tom Askew executive director of founders ministries the

01:16:30

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention Votie Balcom extraordinary extraordinary powerful speaker and teacher and preacher that you've got to hear and see if you've never been in a

01:16:45

Votie Balcom event and this January for the first time ever at g3

01:16:51

John MacArthur himself is on the roster and I am so excited about that because in all my years of being a

01:16:58

Christian since The 1980s I've never been in the same room with John MacArthur. I've never been in the

01:17:04

Presence of his preaching and teaching live there in the same building So I am so looking forward to that if you want to join me

01:17:13

January 16th through the 18th at the g3 conference Go to g3conference .com

01:17:18

g3conference .com and oh, by the way, the theme is worship matters obviously a very vital theme and a very controversial theme in the 21st century

01:17:28

Unfortunately, so many battles amongst evangelicals amongst themselves about worship and So if you'd like to join me go to g3conference .com

01:17:40

also, I strongly urge you if you have a Parachurch ministry like I have this

01:17:45

Iron Trip and Zion radio program if you have some kind of a parachurch organization or business or a

01:17:52

Special event or even a church that you want to promote to the body of Christ this is an ideal place to set up an exhibitors booth because there's over 5 ,000 people that attend this every year and With John MacArthur there this

01:18:06

January. I think they're gonna have over 6 ,000 I can't guarantee that that but I am very confident

01:18:11

They're gonna have over 6 ,000 people there If you want to join me at the g3 conference go to g3conference .com

01:18:18

g3conference .com and I would suggest as I said that you not only register to attend but register for an exhibitors booth before they run out of room if exhibitors booth applies to you and what you do in regard to ministry or business and Last but not least if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves

01:18:38

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01:20:22

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01:21:20

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to our guest

01:21:26

Nate Pickowitz the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire And we are discussing small -town ministry in the liberal mission field of New England and pastor

01:21:39

Nate if you would you were going to tell a story about your hometown Sure, what's good to be back on here just something we were talking about off off the air there when

01:21:50

I was coming back to this hometown and planting a church, I wasn't sure what

01:21:55

I was planting into and And so I I just don't I never knew the history of where I was

01:22:02

So fast forward a little bit Justin Bench my good friend came up a couple weeks ago

01:22:07

To preach at our church and to stay with my family and I for a couple of days And we just had a really wonderful time of a fellowship and then off the cuff.

01:22:15

I've been showing them You know a couple of locations touristy spots or whatever so I on on a whim drove him to a local meeting house

01:22:24

Which is right in the heart of Gilmont and that which is my town And it's just an old -fashioned kind of Puritan style meeting house and so we get there and we're walking around and we we've talked to somebody who brings us over to a

01:22:39

Tombstone and he says to us you want to see the grave of the first pastor in Gilmont and I'm like, that's fine

01:22:44

Great. Sounds good. We go over and Justin begins to read at the top of this gravestone

01:22:50

Let me I just want to read it for your listeners here The top of the gravestone is for a pastor Isaac Smith Isaac Smith.

01:22:57

He was born in 1744 Died in 1817. He's the first pastor ever of any church in Gilmont to New Hampshire It says as a husband and a husband and parent.

01:23:08

He was affectionate He held strictly to the doctrines of grace he was indefatigable and his exertions to promote the spiritual interest of his people was a solemn and searching preacher and Exemplified the truths of the gospel and his life and death

01:23:24

So Dustin's reading the top of this tombstone and he says who in the world is this I'm because I don't know

01:23:30

You know what our what our history is in our town. So Justin and I we both go home We both get on our laptops.

01:23:36

We spend the next six hours Digging through archives and files and everything and come to find out this is in the early early 1800s

01:23:46

Isaac Smith who was a pastor of the church in Gilmont and New Hampshire was one of the five

01:23:51

Most notable preachers of the day. I'd never heard of him before Was a

01:23:57

Princeton graduate was studying under the the spiritual descendants of Jonathan Edwards Eleazar Wheelock and so on and so forth and Was was instrumental in bringing so much of that doctrinal preaching biblical preaching reform theology to this town

01:24:15

They also After he left well, he founded an academy a training academy and after he died 20 years later

01:24:22

There was a revival and they founded a seminary Right in my hometown. It was this right in the middle of boondocks in the middle of wilderness

01:24:29

They had a seminary that was specifically set up to train farm boys on how to preach

01:24:35

So they could go out and pastor churches in rural towns So I couldn't believe this this it was it was like I'm Nick Cage from National Treasure.

01:24:45

We're My goodness it was fantastic so in about a month or so I'm scheduled to preach at a local church in the area

01:24:54

There's a kind of a historical church that has a function every year a summer series So I'm going to present a sort of a biographical sermon or a lecture on the reverie reverend

01:25:05

Isaac Smith and talk about his life But also I found some of his old sermons And so I'm going to be preaching the gospel from his old sermons that are written in the style of Jonathan Edwards I mean, they're just beautiful.

01:25:16

So it's been exciting for me just to rediscover that, you know There was there were faithful ministers in Gilmanton.

01:25:23

There was a faithful heritage. There was a theological seminary And I talked to people in town.

01:25:29

They'd never even heard of that before didn't even know that there was a Gilmanton theological seminary so just really amazing that God does preserve a remnant and Just kind of like Josiah We have to go digging around and find these things and bring them out and pray that God would use them

01:25:45

So really just encouraged and this has only been about the last three or four weeks that I've been really excited about this again

01:25:52

And so it's kind of put a new spring in my step and really a different spin on the ministry altogether

01:25:57

So I just wanted to share that. It's just you never know I would say if you're a pastor if you're a church goer go digging around and your church's attic

01:26:05

You know try to find old documents old statements of faith old sermons journals, whatever You just never know what kind of witness your church has had if it's an older one

01:26:13

You just don't know what God has done and it's just exciting to see his faithfulness through the generations Of course that can backfire on you

01:26:22

I have a friend. I'm not making this up. I'm a I have a friend who was a deacon a

01:26:29

Baptist Church in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island Keep in mind Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, and he was digging through the church attic they were cleaning out the church attic and throwing stuff away and he found the

01:26:43

The what do they call those notes at a meeting the well just flew out of my head getting

01:26:51

Senility in an early age. Yeah, right like meeting notes like yeah But anyway in the in the early 1900s

01:27:02

This church was on the verge of a split Over the issue of whether or not you could be a member of the

01:27:08

Ku Klux Klan. Oh my word Well, obviously, yeah, we have to repudiate that that's that's horrific.

01:27:15

That's terrible Yeah, I mean there but there are there are some churches I mean, you know you go digging around and you never

01:27:22

I mean I've heard of that where churches have have dug around the attic and they find You know buried in their archives the

01:27:28

New Hampshire Baptist Confession or the Westminster and they start reading it and say what is this? and you know,

01:27:33

I've actually heard of churches who've gone and adopted old confessions because they find them and They've lost their way.

01:27:40

And so they go back to the founders. I mean that's happened in many many churches. So Yeah, I mean, it's just exciting to see again the faithfulness of God that sometimes especially as a church planter

01:27:51

I mean you feel like you're you know, you're on uncharted territory. You just don't even know where what's been here before and So it's neat to see that God is

01:27:59

God still has his rem and he always has we're doing nothing brand new We're just trying to carry the torch from who handed it to us.

01:28:07

And so just encouragement for those who might be feeling like they're alone we have

01:28:13

Let's see here We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania Who has a question

01:28:22

She says in the scriptures Jesus had a different approach

01:28:28

When he was facing false religious leaders Then he did with your run -of -the -mill sinner that might even be involved in Scandalous sin sexual sin and other kinds of sins like that But he seemed to be always much more righteously indignant and angry and Forceful with his words then he was with those who are prostitutes and other kinds of sinners.

01:28:55

Do you think that? churches and pastors and Christian individuals therefore

01:29:01

Should be taking different approaches Possibly depending upon where they are located.

01:29:06

You might be more righteously indignant on a regular basis with those in the Bible Belt Who are deceived into thinking that they are

01:29:14

Christians, but are truly as lost as lost can be You might be taking a different approach there than you would such as in New England where most of the people are totally foreign to Christianity our pagans were not raised in any kind of a biblical faith and Yet our people who are in great need of a

01:29:35

Savior nonetheless with this Difference of approach make any sense to you Yeah, that's that's a long question

01:29:43

Just for the sake of to be clear I try to save my righteous indignation for you know times of sparse use if I can but I Think the point of the question is is a good one

01:29:56

I think that in ministry in general no matter where you are whether you're in the Bible Belt whether you're in New England whether you're around the world

01:30:03

I Think you have to Be prepared to get a little bit dirty

01:30:09

And what I mean by that is that when you have people that are walking into your church, especially if they're an unchurched person

01:30:16

Or you know they maybe they just don't know all of the the cultural rules of what your church is

01:30:23

They're gonna bring all kinds of things to the table. I mean when people were coming to Jesus They were coming out of paganism

01:30:30

When he meets the woman at the well and John for me She wasn't prepared to meet the Lord in the middle of the day

01:30:36

I mean she wasn't prepared for that at all and she had had She had six men in her life. You know what at some point in time

01:30:43

So he you know he he wasn't gonna sit there and blast her and berate her when she didn't even know which end was up I mean he dealt with her kindly but told her

01:30:51

That what she was doing was wrong and the same thing and also other places So, you know, we have people who come in and they're you know rough around the edges sometimes and you know

01:31:00

They don't know this again the cultural cues and rules and whatever it may be and we need to be gracious I think there's a huge difference between Between being honest speaking the truth in love and then just berating people because they don't fit in I have a friend of mine who was got saved when he was a teenager and Didn't know what to do

01:31:21

So he went to the local Bible Church and he walked in with a leather jacket and a mohawk and they did he didn't know

01:31:26

What was going on and you know, he struggled to fit in but he just wanted to hear the Bible being taught

01:31:32

I mean those kinds of people we should be running to try to meet with those people and you know every now and then

01:31:38

I Mean someone will drop a swear word or there or maybe they you know, they smell like they were out drinking the night before I mean, there's a there's a way to to approach people and be honest

01:31:46

But at the same time be charitable and be loving and I think you have to look for the right

01:31:52

Opportunities and I think that there are times especially when in a liberal context when people don't want to make any waves at all

01:32:00

We hear a lot of love love love not a whole lot of truth where I am We don't call out anything

01:32:06

But then there's other contexts where that's all people do is call out sins and I think you have to be really careful

01:32:12

Be discerning be wise to be shrewd and ask for the ask the Lord to give you wisdom on when to say and when to Speak so I I think it's situation is different no matter where you go

01:32:23

But I think we have to be be willing to bear with people Especially if they don't know the

01:32:28

Lord or just coming to the faith You can't blast people if they don't even know what righteousness is, you know

01:32:35

But I think that there's there's a time and a place. I don't that's helpful or not There's so many caveats to how that could go

01:32:42

But I just think it's I would to be very careful with how we approach some of these things. Yes. Amen, and I think the

01:32:50

I'm assuming the heart of a lot of what? She was saying

01:32:57

At least when she was referring to the Bible belt part Not that that would be the only place in the country or the world where this would be applicable, but it is very dangerous to let professing

01:33:11

Christians Be at ease and to coast through life thinking that they have eternal life when they really don't yes and That may be something that unfortunately

01:33:26

Many churches many pastors many elder boards are too fearful of rattling the cage of professing

01:33:34

Christians because they don't want to lose The they don't want the collection plate to be thinned out, you know, right?

01:33:41

No, I yeah Ministry, you know, it's messy and it can be really hard because there's so many things you have to navigate and It's hard to give a blanket answer for every situation because every situation is going to be different, you know, and We just need to have wisdom and and and use our minds and use good judgment when we're approaching some of these things and What encouraging things?

01:34:06

Can you tell us about what you are seeing? in regards to the faith in that area

01:34:16

In of New England that you are in We've heard some of the negative things that exist there.

01:34:22

Tell us about some of the things that give you a lot of hope Maybe you're even

01:34:28

Getting optimistic about a true revival again Occurring by the grace of mercy of God in that area

01:34:37

Anything that you could tell us about the positive things you see happen Yeah, there are tons of things that are going on right now that give me cause for great encouragement in the last even five years or so there seems to be a renewal of preaching there's really two

01:34:55

Two wagons I want to hitch myself to and that's expository preaching and sound doctrine and when

01:35:00

I say sound doctrine I'm really talking about reform theology but when I when I talk to people who are who are doing those things there just seems to be a

01:35:09

Resurgence of pastors and of churches that are focusing on those things Past in churches that are in my area churches in Maine There there's something going on in the state of Maine right now.

01:35:21

It's really exciting. There are more conferences going on more Bible preaching more churches that are being rescued away from from liberal denominations and rescued away from just wayward wayward teaching and So I've I've made a lot of friends

01:35:37

Pastor friends in the last couple of years men that I really love and really care about and it just seems like there's

01:35:44

Multiplication of this happening. It seems like every month. I'm getting an email or a phone call from a pastor somewhere in New England And I go on their website.

01:35:52

I check out their statement of faith I listen to a sermon or two and just really exciting So as much as that we still need help

01:35:59

God is bringing the help He's bringing laborers and there are churches that are turning over a new leaf and this the things

01:36:07

I was describing earlier I mean, I heard about a church in Southern, New Hampshire Even recently that lost their pastor didn't know which way to go and the membership just grabbed a

01:36:17

Bible opened it up and said we want someone who can teach us this Bible and they went and Went on a journey a pastoral journey to find themselves a

01:36:26

Bible teacher explicitly So there are churches that are doing that so God has a remnant for sure

01:36:32

But there's a lot going on with biblical preaching Focus on sound doctrine and focus on gospel ministry.

01:36:39

I've never I've lived here for I'm gonna be 40 next week I've lived here my entire life and I've never seen what

01:36:46

I've seen the last three to five years And so it keeps me encouraged I'm excited for the next the next few years and just see what the

01:36:53

Lord does In fact that reminds me I'd like to have our listeners pray for a friend who is actually

01:37:01

Experiencing something nearly identical to what you just Said Matt and perhaps it is identical not that the outcome is exactly the same, but I know a man

01:37:11

I'm not gonna mention his name because of the personal nature of the situation But he is a pastor an evangelical

01:37:18

Bible believing Reformed pastor who was called to a church within a notoriously very liberal denomination and the folks there were totally sick and tired of the rapidly leftist direction that this denomination is racing to has already

01:37:43

Landed in but is even racing further and further to the left and a lot of the people are older people and They wanted somebody who is going to be

01:37:54

Back to the Bible kind of a guy and they called this man. He is their pastor That he was used successfully by God to lead this congregation out of that denomination but unfortunately there is there is such a thing as people who are

01:38:14

Morally and socially conservative But they're not necessarily born again Right He was actually having a hard time from some of the congregants who were furious with him because he did not allow into membership a

01:38:31

Heterosexual couple that was living together without being married so You know what?

01:38:37

It would have been fine with them for him to ban the the homosexual couple But as far as the heterosexual couple, no, no, no the guy let them in.

01:38:44

They're nice people So please pray for this brother, he's going through some interesting challenges

01:38:51

Yeah, very that's important It's unfortunately, you know, and I I've seen this up here even just in my limited exposure to ministry here that a lot of churches

01:39:02

They they want revival They want revitalization But they don't want to necessarily pay for it and what

01:39:08

I mean by pay for it is submit themselves to biblical teaching and submit themselves to changes And things that are out of their preference, you know

01:39:15

I think it's uh, if you say that you want God to move and God to work Well judgment begins at the household of God.

01:39:23

I mean, he's gonna clean house at your church He's in a clean house in your heart and he's gonna take some of the things that you are taking for granted

01:39:30

He's gonna subject them to his discipline so, you know, I think we have to be careful when we when we think about what we're praying for and It is a revival of sanctification and holiness in the church for sure

01:39:42

So, yeah, I will I might even connect with you offline and just see if maybe I know this brother and can pray for him

01:39:48

Specifically, but it's definitely needed for sure. Oh, yeah, definitely In fact, he would probably love it if you were to contact him.

01:39:55

Sure. Excellent just to give him some encouragement Let's see here. We have

01:40:01

Well, we have somebody that has a question and I'll ask it and I'll have you answer it when we come back from our final break

01:40:08

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York Who says

01:40:13

I in your area? I'm assuming that a lot of churches are the mainline Congregationalist churches that once were

01:40:21

Puritan filled and now are filled with apostates and liberals have you ever heard of the

01:40:30

Denomination called the four C's CCCC That many who have become

01:40:37

Bible -believing Christians who are former pastors in the liberal Congregationalist churches have joined into the four

01:40:46

C's because of its Bible believing stance So we'll have you answer that when we come back and I am familiar with that denomination.

01:40:55

I have a friend actually in Manhattan who is the pastor of the

01:41:02

The new I think it's the New Village Congregationalist Church, which is a conservative Reformed Congregation that has adopted the

01:41:12

Savoy Declaration But that's the conservative congregational

01:41:18

Christian conference, that's the four C's but we'll have you answer that when we get back This is our final break If you want to join us the email address is

01:41:25

Chris Arnsin at gmail .com Chris Arnsin at gmail .com. Don't go away We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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Kerry Kimbrough pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit the fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence

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Of God three years ago. I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

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Cabanana Who are taking care of 24 orphans? I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

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What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

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I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is $73 per month per child if just 50 of us would give $35 a month we could meet the need

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Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar will get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?

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To 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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BBC laurel .com Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC laurel .com.

01:49:12

Thank you My name is Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Masters Seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

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Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

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01:55:08

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen and this is our final segment of today's interview with Nate Pikowitz.

01:55:15

If you have a question, you better send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:55:21

is the email address. Pastor Nate, if you could summarize in about three minutes what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about our subject.

01:55:30

Yeah, I think one of the big things is that there's hope. You know, God is always on the move. He's always working.

01:55:37

And so no matter what ministry you're in, if you feel like you're stuck in a challenging ministry, if it seems like all the winds are against you, stand firm and be strong.

01:55:45

Whether you're a pastor or a church leader or a congregant, a member of your church, you know, stand strong because the

01:55:51

Lord is working. He can work in the most difficult areas of any part of the world. I'm encouraged by what's happening, for example, in Ireland that's even more post -Christian than America.

01:56:02

God is doing the work there and it's just astounding. The question was asked earlier about churches going from more liberal denominations.

01:56:11

Oh, yeah, I forgot. The four Cs. That's right. Yeah, no, just very quickly about that. I mean, I have heard about churches doing that.

01:56:19

It was a huge takeover of the Congregationalist movement back in the 1820s, but, you know, churches are finding that's untenable.

01:56:26

You know, Unitarianism is untenable, and a lot of the positions are not biblical, and churches are starting to reject that and find denominations like those conservative groups.

01:56:36

And so I have seen some of that. It is encouraging. And, again, I really do think that the

01:56:43

Lord is consistently moving, and He promises in Matthew chapter 16 that He will build

01:56:49

His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. So we have to stand on that, trust that, and be faithful as we can, and just trust

01:56:57

Him that He will do His work. And so I'm encouraged to see that happening in New England. I'm blessed to know it's happening in other parts of the country as well.

01:57:05

So the Lord is faithful. Yes, and I don't know if you're familiar with the exact denomination He was referring to, but that's the

01:57:12

Four C's group, mainly made up of people formerly in the

01:57:17

United Church of Christ who left there because of the apostasy and leftist leaning, not even leaning, they've jumped over any fence that would be leaning totally into the leftist apostasy.

01:57:30

Yeah. I don't know a bunch about it, but I do know of them, and I know churches who have gone that route, and it seems to be working out well.

01:57:37

So I can't really comment beyond that just because I don't know the details of it, but I've heard it's very good. Yes, and if anybody wants more information about that denomination, our listener sent in the email.

01:57:49

It's cccusa .com, cccusa .com.

01:57:57

And my friend Pastor Kirk, who pastors in Greenwich Village at a church in that denomination,

01:58:05

Kirk Vanderswag, his website is ncgvnyc .com,

01:58:13

ncgv, as in village, nyc .com. Well, I want to thank you so much,

01:58:20

Pastor Nate Pickowitz. I want to make sure you also give your contact information.

01:58:26

I know that your church website is Harvest Bible.

01:58:35

Wow, I need glasses. Hang on. Before you go too far, we've actually got a different website.

01:58:40

We've made it a lot easier. I'll give the contact info. Here we go. Ready? So our church's website is hbc -nh .org.

01:58:49

So hbc, like Harvest Bible Church, hyphen nh, New Hampshire, dot org, hbc -nh .org.

01:58:58

They can find me. I have a public Facebook page. I don't really use it privately anymore.

01:59:03

I just have a public one. I'm on Twitter quite a bit. My Twitter handle is at Nate Pickowitz, and you can follow me there as well.

01:59:11

And my books are available on Amazon. My articles are available here and there, wherever I write.

01:59:16

So if people want to get a hold of me, they can find me pretty easily. And the conference, don't forget, it's

01:59:21

August 1st through the 3rd at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine. That's where our guest will be one of a number of speakers, one of four speakers,

01:59:30

I believe. That's the Fellowship Conference New England. If you want to attend that August 1st through the 3rd, go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

01:59:37

fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. Don't forget, tomorrow my guest is Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:59:44

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.