Mike Gendron Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.�

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. And maybe over the years we�ve created some foes to the ministry, but we�ve also gained some friends, by the grace of God, to partner along with men and women who are zealous for the

Lord�s glory and for the gospel of Jesus Christ, the risen Savior. That�s been a great side benefit here at No Compromise Radio, to get to know especially some dear men who want to stand up for the truth and will proclaim the gospel no matter what.

And so today we talked to one of those men, Mike Jenner. Welcome to No Compromise Radio. I love you and the ministry the

Lord has given you. Well, there�s a mutual admiration. We love you and your ministry as well,

Mike. And we just praise God for your stand for the truth and the gospel. And more than ever,

I think the gospel is being compromised today. The attack is against the exclusivity of the gospel, and we need men standing up and defending it for the glory and honor of our

Savior. Well, one of the things that I have been so encouraged by,

Mike, is as we spent some time at Worldview Weekend the last couple years in Branson. I think

Branson is a Christian city, by the way, a small city. But I�ve been so encouraged to see the way you treat your wife and to see the concern you have for people behind the scenes as you minister to them.

Many folks come to you and say, �I have a Catholic mom or a Catholic husband. Please help me.�

And so I just wanted to encourage you as you serve with your wife behind the scenes and then when you get up and proclaim the truth from the pulpit that I think to myself, �I want to treat my wife the way

Mike treats Jane.� So thank you for that. Well, that�s a nice compliment. I often say that outside of my salvation, which of course is the number one gift in my life, the second most precious gift is the wife that the

Lord has blessed me with. She truly is a helpmate. She�s working hand -in -hand with me in the ministry, creating slides for my

PowerPoint shows and doing a lot of telephone ministry, and so I�m really blessed to have her along my side.

I mean this in all sincerity, if you ever see me slip in any area in terms of gospel ministry or the way

I treat my wife, I�d like you to pull me to the side and help me, set me straight, rebuke me.

I�d appreciate it if you do that. Amen, brother. Amen, brother. And I ask the same of you. Well, let�s talk a little bit about Rome, not only the city, but Roman Catholicism.

First Mike, for those folks that don�t know you and your ministry, give me a brief background and how

God saved you and then how you have the ministry that you have now, then we�ll talk about Roman Catholicism. Sure.

Well, I was a very devout Catholic for over 34 years of my life, including being an altar boy for seven years, and later on teaching high school

Catholic Christian doctrine. And then I taught the first Little Rock Bible study in a

Roman Catholic church in 1981. It was that time the Lord was beginning to work on my heart as I was abiding in His Word, and I didn�t have anybody witnessing to me or discipling me.

It was the Word of God and the Spirit of God that ultimately brought me to Christ. And I had a crisis of faith as I was studying the

Bible at the age of 34, and I didn�t know if I should trust Christ and His Word or the teachings and traditions of my religion.

I was a very proud Catholic, Mike, and I think that prideful spirit that I had was really a tool of the devil to keep me blinded from the truth.

But the more I studied the Bible, the more I realized I had to put my trust in Christ and His Word alone, and the

Lord granted me repentance. I had eyes to see the truth. I recognized that Christ took all of my sin, all of my guilt, all of my punishment, and then

He gave me His righteousness in return. My life has never been the same. I quickly realized that the only two things in this world that will last throughout all eternity are the souls of men and the

Word of God, and I wanted to begin investing the rest of my life in those two things that would last for eternity.

And so I ended up going to Dallas Theological Seminary, studied the Bible there, and then my last semester we began reaching out to Roman Catholics.

My wife is also a former Catholic, and we had a great compassion to reach those people who were where we were, believing that they were in the one true church, but yet destined for the fires of hell unless someone could reach them with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

So that was 25 years ago that we began this work, and the Lord has taken us all over the world, not only into many churches, but seminaries and large conferences.

So we're excited to equip the body of Christ for the work of ministry, to reach out to Roman Catholics, and over the years we've developed a lot of good gospel tracts to reach

Roman Catholics. I've written a book, Preparing for Eternity, that really is a contrast between the teachings of Roman Catholicism and the

Word of God, and it really forces Roman Catholics to make a choice, the same choice I did, am

I going to trust my eternal destiny with Christ and His Word, or with the teachings and traditions of a religion?

And I think when it comes down to that, by the grace of God, many will choose Christ and His Word.

Mike, as I was reading your book, Preparing for Eternity, I was just thankful for the obvious contrast between, this is what the

Bible says, and then this is what Rome teaches. The style that you have is,

I would say, kind with people, because you really are concerned about their souls, but you're firm.

That is, you want to stand on biblical truth, and you won't back down from it.

That's a hard balance to maintain, and when

I look at evangelicals, many of them, they'll try to be so kind that they'll change the

Bible, or they'll compromise some. Do you have any suggestions for some of our listeners, as they want to be nice to their relatives who are

Roman Catholic, but they need to stand firm on what the Bible says about grace alone through Christ alone?

Yeah, Mike, that's really the point. We need to speak the truth in love. We cannot argue anyone into Heaven.

As ambassadors for the Lord Jesus Christ, we are to sow the seed of His Word, and hopefully we'll find fertile soil in people's hearts.

We've found a very effective way to witness to Roman Catholics is to ask them questions, to challenge them and their faith in questions that would be such as, why do you continue to do what

Jesus cried out, it is finished, on the cross? So why did the priest continue on an altar what

Jesus finished on a cross? We ask questions like, why do you believe in purgatory if the

Bible says the blood of Jesus purifies you from all sin? So these are questions that we ask

Catholics to challenge them, to drive them to the Bible for the answers, and we know that when people begin abiding in the

Word of God, they will know the truth, and the truth will set them free from any kind of religious deception.

So our goal is always to open the Bible, point Catholics to Scriptures, and challenge them.

Ask them, what is God saying to you? What is God speaking to your heart in that verse? And that's a very effective way to witness to Roman Catholics.

Mike, I just started last Sunday morning, probably a three -year series in the book of Hebrews, the epistle to the

Hebrews. And when I was thinking about the summary of Hebrews, the writer even gives us what he's been talking about, chapter 8, verse 1.

Now the point in which we are saying is this, we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the majesty in heaven.

Tell some of our listeners, some of them are certainly Roman Catholic, how critical is it for them to understand that Jesus Christ did everything that was required of the

Father, it is finished, and then he sat down. In the Old Testament, you go to the

Holy of Holies, there's furniture there, there's a table, there's the altar, there's the ark, but there's no seat, yet Jesus sat down.

What's the significance of the finished work of Christ, especially for a Roman Catholic? Well, it's of utmost importance, because if we don't proclaim the sufficiency and finished work of our

Lord Jesus, then Catholics will continue to hold on to what they've been told they must do in order to be saved.

Roman Catholics believe that they must be baptized and receive the sacraments and do good works and obey the law and attend the weekly sacrifice of the mass, and then in the end go through a purging fire in purgatory.

So unless we can show that Christ is sufficient, and the Bible does a wonderful job of that, especially in the book of Hebrews that you're beginning to go through, especially

Hebrews 7, 9, and 10, it clearly destroys the concept of a Roman Catholic mass, showing that by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified, and that Jesus offered himself once for all sin for all time.

There are no more offerings for sin, and Mike, one of the great miracles that took place when

Jesus gave up his spirit on Calvary's cross 2 ,000 years ago was the Father tearing open the veil that separates sinful man from a holy

God in the temple, and showing that now through faith in the shed blood of Jesus we have direct access to the

Father. We no longer need priests offering sacrifices for sin, because the one perfect high priest, the

Lord Jesus, offered himself the perfect sacrifice to a perfect God who demands perfection.

And then he cried out, it is finished. No more offerings. And so this is the message we need to take to our

Roman Catholic friends and show them that Christ is the only mediator. They don't need priests anymore.

In fact, a Roman Catholic priesthood is superfluous, it's unnecessary, and it really blocks the access that Roman Catholics have directly to God.

For our listeners who'd like to get to know Mike better or get some of his excellent tracks or the book

Preparing for Eternity, ProclaimingtheGospel .org, ProclaimingtheGospel .org,

Mike, you and I have, we weren't there together, but I've come back from Rome, Italy, and you've been in, you just were in Rome.

When you walk through the streets of Rome or you go to one of the Catholic churches there, what goes through your mind and through your heart as you see the domination of Roman Catholicism in that city?

Well, you're just overwhelmed by the idolatry that goes on in the Vatican, especially on St.

Peter's. I think, you know, when I was walking through St. Peter's, the thought that really crossed my mind was that this basilica was built by the money that was taken from people to get their loved ones out of purgatory.

The money to build St. Peter's Basilica was to sell the forgiveness of God through the concept of indulgences, and as I saw this enormous basilica of St.

Peter's, to think how much money was generated by selling the free gift of God's forgiveness to poor

Catholics who don't know that salvation and forgiveness is by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone.

What about you? What were your thoughts as you went through? When I saw on the

La Scala Sancta, the people going up those steps on their knees, supposedly pilot steps that Jesus was on, and then

Luther, before he got converted, goes up those steps, 28 steps, praying the

Pater Nostra on each of those, and he gets to the top, and if these things are true, he asks himself, I wonder if they are.

I just thought, Mike, these folks are so blinded. How could you explain the sheer weight of blindness that they have unless we factor in what the

Bible says about Satan is blind in their minds? Because it's almost too ludicrous.

We go up these steps, we get people out of purgatory, there were so many people. I personally didn't go up on my knees, not because I was afraid to do it,

I kind of wanted to follow the, not the footsteps, but where Luther went, but there were too many people on those steps, crying and weeping.

And I thought, this is the masterpiece of Satan, that is the Roman Catholic Church. So close.

I mean, they would believe in the literal resurrection, and the Trinity, and the deity of Christ, and many of those things.

It's the same that they would believe, but they believe, and I want you to talk about this too for our listeners,

Mike, they believe in those things, but how do they receive the benefits of Christ? And Galatians is a good book to tell us that it must be, they must be received through faith alone, and no works at all.

Well, that's so true. It's the imputation of Christ's righteousness, it's a legal forensic decision by God in heaven declaring a person righteous and acquitting them of their sins, but Roman Catholicism teaches that righteousness is infused as people do good works and receive sacraments, and Roman Catholics are told that they must expiate or make satisfaction for their own sins, which is why you saw so many people going up those stairs on their knees.

Mike, we just got back from the Philippines where I did two major conferences there, and once a year during Holy Week, they have

Filipino men come forward to be scourged and beaten and nailed to a cross, not to die, but to expiate their own sins, to make satisfaction for their sins, and so this is how powerful religious indoctrination is, and you mentioned how there's supernatural blindness on those lost in religion, and I think that the devil uses the tool of religious pride and religious indoctrination as a powerful tool to blind people from the light of the gospel and the glory of Christ, and we know from the previous chapter in 2

Corinthians 3 .18 that that veil of blindness remains on every man's heart until they turn to Christ, and so that's what we do as evangelists.

We point people to Christ and His finished work, and pray that as they read His word that the veil of blindness would be removed from their hearts.

Mike, one time toward the end of our trip, we went to the Church of Jesus, I can't pronounce the

Italian name, and it has a very large marble statue of Mary with a cross, and I believe the title of the statue is

The Faithful Crushing the Heretics, and here we have Mary's foot on the Reformers' necks, and a little demon imp,

I think they mean it to be an angel, ripping the pages out of a Luther book. Have you been to that particular church?

Yes, I have. It's very heartbreaking to see. Tell me, so I can understand it better, we have, for instance,

Pope Francis, and he wants to say, well, sorry Protestants, for people we've killed, and they try to be very ecumenical, and let's all, you know, we're all one, you know, creation of God, even the

Muslims, etc. Yet these churches still exist, I mean, this is, the trend has not ever been revoked, in other words, and I think that church that had the

Mary statue there, I'm not so sure a lot of people who are in the upper echelons of Roman Catholicism want people to know such a church exists, exists.

Yeah, you're probably right, I don't know that for sure, but this pope really has been an amazing figure, because many

Roman Catholics are protesting against him, because he doesn't even line himself up with historic

Roman Catholic theology, when he says that atheists can follow their conscience into heaven as long as they're sincere, well, that's not even

Roman Catholic theology. And we also know that yesterday, Pope Francis opened the

Holy Door, you probably saw it when you were in St. Peter's, it's been shut since the year 2000, and now anyone who makes a pilgrimage to Rome and goes through the

Holy Door in St. Peter's will get a plenary indulgence. So the pope is pointing people to a door rather than to the cross of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, and I don't really understand why

Roman Catholics don't stand up and outrage that this man is truly a false prophet, he's leading people to an eternity that is filled with torture and punishment and hell's fire, because they're being pointed to a cross that still has

Christ on it, you know, they deny that his work is finished, the work of redemption is finished, that's why the mass continues on Catholic altars every day, because that's the work of redemption, and it just, it breaks my heart to see so many people, many which are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge, it's very similar to Paul praying for the

Israelites in Romans chapter 10, they had a zeal for God but not based on knowledge, and they sought to obtain their own righteousness rather than receive the righteousness that comes from God, and so that's where Roman Catholicism is today, it's really an extension of Judaism with its sarcedotal priesthood, and they're placing people under the law, and you know, just as the religious people in the

Lord's day were blinded by supernatural blindness because of their religious pride, they pointed to Abraham as their father,

Roman Catholics point to the Pope as their father, and so there's a mutual blindness, they cannot see the light of the gospel because of it.

We went to St. Peter's Square for the papal audience, so you could just get tickets for free, and so I wanted to go because I thought it was interesting, and I thought to myself, if I have 40 ,000 people and I get to preach to them for 20 minutes, what would

I say? Well, I think Paul is clear, even in 1 Corinthians chapter 2, I made a determination to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, the crucified one, and I thought to myself, here he gets up and talks about, you should spend more time with your family, and I thought to myself, even if I was a

Roman Catholic, I would want to get up and speak Catholic doctrine, not moralistic, therapeutic, deist type of thing, so I was thinking the

Catholics must even be let down. Mike, I've got to... You're so right. Yeah. And Mike, I often wonder too, when he was introduced to the

Congress of the United States of America, he was introduced as Holy Father, he came as a religious figure, and yet he never once mentioned the name above all names, the

Lord Jesus, he never once referred to Scripture, but instead he referred to the

Golden Rule, and so it just really is appalling to see how so many people admire this man and venerate this man, and he's just an empty suit.

Sometimes I'll talk to my son, Luke is 19, and I'll say, yes, it's difficult in the sense that there are pressures put upon us for political correctness and other things, but just to say to people,

I mean, it's not that hard to actually say the words, you have no righteousness, you have sin,

God is holy, God has just laws, you've broken those, you need to have a perfect righteousness and religious righteousness won't do,

God has provided righteousness in the personal work of Jesus Christ, he dies on behalf of the unrighteous like you, he perfectly obeyed the law to gain righteousness that he gives freely, was raised from the dead, and in light of that you need to repent and believe, but there are people that just cannot get that out of their mouths.

And you know, you just recited a very simple and clear gospel, and yet religion comes along and it convolutes the gospel, it adds requirements, it takes some of the essentials away from the gospel, and so I've often said that the

Bible is what God says, religion is what man says God says, and we want to point people directly to the source for truth.

The Bible is the supreme authority, there's no higher authority than God, and he has revealed himself through his objective and Aaron -inspired word, and that should be everyone's final court of appeals, to know which man is teaching the truth and which man is teaching error.

And I know you encourage people to test your teaching out with the word of God as well, and that's what we need to encourage everyone to do.

Amen. Well we've got about three minutes left with Mike Gendron, you can pull his information up at proclaimingthegospel .org.

Mike in front of me I have a website, catholicbible101 .com, and they are going after the solas, and they quote

James 2 .24, and then they say, see, the Bible teaches exactly opposite faith alone.

So James 2 .24, let me read it to you, and then in a couple minutes could you just tell us what it actually means.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And so the

Catholic would say, see, Protestants, you believe in sola fide, faith alone, and the Bible says right here, you're not, and not by faith alone.

What is the writer James actually saying? Well Mike, as you know, context is everything, and James chapter 2,

James is not teaching us how to be justified. What James is doing is contrasting two different types of faith.

There is a living, enduring faith that comes from God, and that faith will always show evidence by its works.

Then he also contrasts that with a dead, spurious faith, which has no works.

And so James is pointing out that, show me your works, show me your faith by your works, because faith is invisible.

No one knows whether or not anyone has saving faith just as you walk up to someone. And so what

James is saying is, if you have been born again, if you have true living faith, there will be evidence.

You will begin to do the works that God has prepared for you to walk in, but first you must be justified.

First you must be born again, and that is by faith alone, but faith that is alone will always be accompanied by works once the person has been born of the

Spirit of God. There will be evidence of saving faith, and if there is no evidence, James is simply saying your faith is worthless, it is spurious, because there is no evidence.

The key here is that James is not teaching justification, he's contrasting dead and living faith.

Great answer. I almost want to call you the Catholic Answer Man, but I don't know if that would be a compliment or not.

I'm not sure, unless it means universal. That's right. Well, we don't have very much time left, but as I was in Rome teaching the book of Romans, I just kept thinking of Romans chapter 4, with circumcision, and when was

Abraham circumcised, and how important faith is. Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.

And that's what we want our Roman Catholic friends to do, is to believe in the

Lord Jesus Christ. It's faith alone in Him, taking God at His word, that Jesus is the sufficient

Savior once and for all. He was sacrificed, and then God raised

Him from the dead. Mike, I appreciate you and your ministry. Glad we get to see each other throughout the year at World View Weekend events.

People can go to ProclaimingtheGospel .org if they want to get some more of your information.

Thanks for being on No Compromise Radio. Well, thanks for having me, Mike. God bless you. Keep standing for the truth.

No Compromise Radio, with Pastor Mike Abendroth, is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible -teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

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