Are the Best Women Actually Men? Or, Should We Stop Praising Pathetic Losers?

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we seek to answer the age -old question, are the best women actually men, or should we stop praising pathetic losers?

So a little setup in terms of the backstory of this episode, Tim and I were actually planning on covering a completely different topic for this week.

However, some recent current events caused us to change plans pretty quickly.

Essentially, if you've been listening to the podcast, if you've listened to a lot of our recent episodes, you'll realize that we've been covering male, female, biblical roles a lot over the past few weeks, and that's been purposeful, and we really wanted to do that.

This week, we decided that we wanted to move on to some other topics that are important and need to be talked about as well.

But like I said, these current events came up, and we both decided, all right, we've got to talk about this.

Basically, we made a solemn vow to move on, but then we pulled an equalizer.

We had an equalizer moment, if you've seen that movie, where we had the solemn vow that we didn't want to violate, but then something really bad happened that forced us to make a special exception this one time.

So here we are talking more about male, female, how we should view gender in terms of the

Bible, and it's all because of these two current events. And so if you haven't heard these two current events, the first one being involving

Richard Levine, who is the Secretary of Health right now.

So he works for the government, very high up, pretty powerful position,

I assume, and USA Today awarded him an award, which sounds great, cool, whatever.

The problem is the award that he was given was Woman of the

Year. So remember, this guy's name is Richard, and he was given Woman of the

Year. Hey, he's going by Rachel now, so I guess that's all that matters, huh? Yeah, I mean, just, you know, yeah,

I guess that's all it takes to be a woman, apparently, is just change a few letters in your name, and all of a sudden you're a woman now.

But anyways, he's been given Woman of the Year, essentially stolen the award from whoever came in second place.

So we have that story that comes out. And then in the same week, essentially, you have another story involving college swimming.

So I'm sure a lot of you are out there, are rabid NCAA college swimming fans.

But for those of you who aren't aware, there's a guy named

William Thomas, who's a man, and he was ranked 462nd in terms of men's swimming, which honestly,

I mean, that sounds like a pretty low ranking. I mean, there's 461 people who are better than you, but honestly, it seems like there's got to be at least some talent there to be ranked.

Like sub 500, I don't know how many college swimmers there are, but there's got to be some talent there on his part.

But he's certainly not the best in terms of men's swimming, obviously. So what he did, he hatched a plan, and that plan was to instantly become a woman by changing his name to Leah, Leah Thomas.

And so once he did that and started competing against other women in swimming, instantly, he became number one in women's swimming.

And so he was breaking a bunch of records, winning a bunch of races, and most recently, he actually just won the

NCAA Women's Swimming National Championship. So you have these two stories of guys who are essentially stealing awards away from women.

Keep in mind, too, apparently March is actually Women's History Month, which is pretty comical if you think about it with what's going on right now.

Women's History Month, essentially Women's History Month is turning a lot more into March Madness at this point with everything going on.

And so we're looking at all this, Tim and I, and saying, okay, we've got to talk about this.

We can't just leave this alone. It's fresh on everyone's mind. We need to help people understand how do we need to, as Christians, think about what's going on?

How should we view this? It feels like this is wrong on so many levels. And so, Tim, why don't we just, maybe the most helpful place to start would just be to ask the question, this seems wrong on so many levels.

How in the world did we even get here as a society where we're stealing awards away from women, giving them to men who are pretending to be women, who are pulling like a

Mrs. Doubtfire or something, and calling it progress?

How did we get here as a society overall? Well, it is quite the remarkable thing when you think about it that we're living in a society right now that's so hostile to the patriarchy, but then somehow we've found a way to basically be giving all these awards that should be going to women to men.

And so it certainly is a very perplexing kind of phenomenon when men seem to be the root problem of all of societal ills and are now being praised as the best examples of females.

And so certainly it's ironic. But yeah, no, I don't know, man. We used to live in the kind of society where if a guy were to beat on women in sports or something along those lines, there would be a lot of public shaming, perhaps even a good roughing up that would happen to that kind of individual who dared to do that.

I mean, I know for myself, I used to play sports in high school, and you go play sports at the park or something along those lines, and something profoundly different happens when you're playing streetball at a park and a girl comes up and wants to play with the men.

It's one of those things where you can imagine, and you're not really allowed to talk about what psychologically is happening there, but every guy kind of knows what happens in that kind of scenario, particularly if you are the misfortunate guy who happens to be the one who has to guard the girl or something along those lines, or you're getting guarded by the girl.

Instantaneously, the game fundamentally changes to the point where if you try at all, then you're going to get mocked mercilessly for being that guy who is scoring against a girl, but then if she scores against you, then you're going to get mocked for having a girl score against you.

It's the classic lose -lose situation. Right, but then if you look like you're trying to stop her from scoring, then it's just like, hey man, chill out, you're playing against a girl.

So you have to basically try to figure out some way to look like you're not trying, but then try enough so that she doesn't score on you, but not try too hard to where it looks like you're trying to keep her from scoring on you.

And then when you get the ball, you have to basically pass it or pretend like you're not trying very hard.

The game fundamentally changes, but as I was saying, we used to live in a kind of society where there was social pressure against a guy going and playing sports against women or competing at sports against women.

You can imagine just the kind of mockery that an individual would be subjected to if he had the audacity to dress like a woman and enter into a beauty pageant or something like that.

So we've basically lost our mind. But yeah, there's a lot of things that are happening along those lines that really are quite troubling and quite strange.

But certainly with the civil rights movement and the women's rights movement, one of the things that's happened is that our societies realize that there's great power to be found in identifying oneself as a marginalized class.

So with the civil rights movement, there was legitimate reason for that along those lines.

But then as individuals have seen the success of the civil rights movement, then essentially the logic changed from minorities, whether racial minorities, if you want to use that term, or even gender minorities, even though what's strange about that is women outnumber men.

But leave that alone just for a second. But then the logic now has become gay is the new black, and now transgenderism is kind of the new gay, and then pretty soon it'll be pedophiles and everything else.

And so there's been this larger project based on critical theory that has essentially problematized every societal interaction and perceives the world in terms of different power dynamics that are going on.

And so you have a lot of things that are happening along those lines, the introduction of critical theory into our minds where we view the world through the lens of oppressor classes of people and the oppressed classes of people.

And then if you can lay claim to that oppressed victim label, essentially then you're going to be able to get societal privileges that come from that.

And then you add some postmodernism to that, and essentially what happens is that objective truth isn't really real anymore, and all that matters is how a person perceives himself to be.

So there's no such thing as anything that's objective and fixed. As far as that goes, it just matters how you feel.

And then the more our society has become more of a matriarchal society, essentially feelings matter much more than objective reality or facts at this point.

And so largely what's happened is you've gotten to a point where you're living in a society right now where something that would be just embarrassing and humiliating and the kind of thing that society would mock, and perhaps you might beat someone up for picking on a girl in that kind of way, there was societal pressure along those lines that now basically everything...

Bullying is this big concept now that's happened, and everything revolves more about how people feel and protecting the victim and basically enabling a victim to...

Or basically giving a victim just this past basic... Whoever's perceived to be a victim, you're giving them basically just this status of sainthood where...

You're like the chosen people now. Yeah, I mean, you can essentially do no wrong and be criticized in any possible way, and so all these things are culminating into just the broader reality that an individual that we used to identify as a pathetic loser now is being universally praised by society, so it's kind of strange.

Doesn't that... You bring up the pathetic loser thing. Doesn't that feel a little unchrist -like, though?

I mean, that's part of our title question, but certainly there's going to be people who come along and listen to this and say, hey, all right, this is obviously...

You're not being like Christ, calling someone a pathetic loser. So what's the reasoning behind using a term like that?

Jesus literally never used pejoratives in his life, huh? You brood of vipers who warmed you to flee from the wrath that come.

You whitewashed tombs. People just haven't really read the

Bible and they don't understand the kind of language that's actually appropriate for these kind of scenarios, but I think part of what's happening when you think about something along these lines is that essentially there are scenarios that where an individual is preying upon another individual that strong language needs to be used in order to rebuke that kind of individual.

And so, as I said, we used to live in the kind of society where if a man pushed around a woman...

We actually used to respect women and actually used to think that it was a man's job to protect women. But then now that we've smashed the patriarchy, essentially one of the things that's happened is that women are basically identifying themselves as just being strong and courageous and independent and don't need men to protect them and everything else.

But it used to be that men did feel like a moral sense of responsibility to stick up for a woman and to protect her.

And part of the shape that that actually took in this society is that if you saw a man going out there and beating up on women in sports, that he would be the subject of mockery and he would be the subject of ridicule.

And so you have to think about what's actually happening here and who are actually the victims as far as this goes.

And so you're living in a society right now that are going to label us essentially to be basically hateful bigots and everything else.

But the problem is that you have to have some sort of place for protecting women. And part of protecting women is to rebuke very strongly these predatory males.

And that's essentially what Jesus is doing with the Pharisees. He's rebuking these leaders who are preying upon the people at that point.

And there are no... It's difficult to imagine a scenario that is more fraught with moral problems than the idea of a man essentially pretending to be a woman and dominating other women like that.

Whatever that is, that is our moral indignation and outrage should be directed towards that kind of individual, not towards the patriarchy kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah. It definitely feels wrong on a lot of different levels in terms of you've got the guy coming in.

He's ranked 462nd in men's college swimming. He all of a sudden realizes somehow, magically, he's a woman now.

And he's number one instantly. That feels really... I mean, if you're just a...

But you don't even know the difference. The thing is you don't even know the difference between number one for him and the next girl.

Do you know what I mean? Explain what you mean a little bit. Alright, so yeah, he's number one now as a woman, you know?

Woman, right? Quote, unquote. Yeah, but then the problem is you don't even know what that would...

the gap there between him and the next girl. You wouldn't even know how to calculate that in terms of ranking because it's just in a different category in playing field.

It's probably more like he's number one and then the second place is probably more like number 50.

So I mentioned that in, I think, a shorter episode, essentially, where Serena Williams and Venus Williams were basically saying that they could take a guy in the top 200 or whatever.

But then there was a... It was a funny scenario because there's a guy,

I mean, he's essentially washed up at the end of his career. He was ranked 201 in tennis. Harrison, he had a sprained ankle and he was hungover.

He was at the end of his career, sprained ankle, hungover, and then he beats...

I think he beat Serena 6 -1. And he beat Venus 6 -2. But you have to understand something.

Male tennis players, at the top of their game, they don't lose that badly to each other, if you understand what

I mean. And so that's just getting dominated. So you don't even know what... That's not to say... You take a comparison like that, you don't even know what they would rank.

It's just off the charts, level of difference. And that's the same thing happening with the swimming thing. Now, are you just saying that because you're a hateful bigot and you think men are better than women in every way possible?

Or is there another possible explanation as to why a man is naturally going to be more successful when it comes to sports?

Especially if he's competing directly against a woman. That's funny. What's funny about that kind of reaction, and that's the kind of reaction that people give, is they will literally look you in the face and call you a hateful bigot for trying to protect women.

But then they are literally calling you a name.

So when you think about what's actually happening in that moment, they're actually looking at you and calling you a hateful bigot for basically calling a transgender male a pathetic loser.

It's like they have no kind of self -awareness to the fact that they're actually calling you a pejorative.

So what are the rules here? The rules are that pejoratives are mean and hateful and everything else. Then we should apply them across the board.

But maybe it's possible that people can do things that are worthy of pejoratives. People certainly think

I'm doing something worthy of a pejorative. So maybe it's possible then that the transgender guy is doing something worthy of the pejorative, as far as that goes.

But the thing is, I actually care about women, and because I care about women and want to protect women,

I don't want men to self -identify as being a woman and then to go into their locker rooms and to prey upon them like some kind of creepy pervert.

It's one of those things where it's just like there's been... Because we used to live in a kind of society that actually respected women and wanted to protect women, then we've sheltered them from the cold, hard realities of these differences between men and women in terms of physical strength and everything else.

It's not the kind of thing that you really want to expose or put into public light.

So it's one of those things where when you... Because men do so completely outmatch women in terms of just physical athleticism and strength and power and everything else, it's one of those things that everyone knows how you respond to these kind of things in general.

So if you're the kind of guy who's essentially going out there and trying your hardest as you're playing three -year -olds and four -year -olds, everyone is going to look at that kind of guy and think, man, there's something wrong with you because you do want to kind of shelter...

You want to shelter children from the cold, hard realities of the differences between those kind of things.

You don't want to actually humiliate people. And one of the things that's actually happening in this kind of scenario when we're putting these things on public display in this way is that we live in the kind of society that across the board we're trying to shelter women and men from these brute realities.

And that's why it's kind of unthinkable. I mean, it's unthinkable to think of someone actually like Mike Tyson or something boxing a woman.

Oh, my gosh. No one actually wants to... No one wants to see that. He would go to jail for murder. Right. I mean, no one wants to see that.

There's no market for it. There's no market for it. And that's why whatever the guy's name was who identified as Fallon Fox started beating up on women in the

UFC. I mean, it's just brutal and it's gruesome and it's the kind of thing that we try to protect everyone from.

And so I'm one of those people who basically is just looking at this kind of thing and saying,

Hey, I respect women and I want to protect them. And how do you protect them from these idiot males who are operating on some kind of inferiority complex that are trying to prove that they're worth something by picking on individuals who they hopelessly outmatch.

Right. Now, part of our title question, the first half of it is are the best women actually men?

And if you were to go to USA Today or the NCAA right now, they would say,

Hey, you know what? The best women are actually men. You know, that's why we've given, you know,

Woman of the Year awards out and we've given national titles that are designated for the best woman to men instead.

So Tim, what is your take on that question? USA Today says men make better women.

The NCAA says men make better women. What do you think? Do you think men actually make better women?

Well, I mean, I'm just one of these primitive Stone Age kind of person who essentially think that, you know,

Richard Levine is just a hideous example of a woman and just a grotesque caricature.

No, I mean, I don't, we're just engaging in insanity at this point. And it's just, it's one of the strangest kind of things that you can look at and see that it's like you're living in a bizarro world here.

Yeah, yeah. It feels like clown world, you know. Oh, it must be opposite day today or something.

Did April 1st come early? Right. Is every day April 1st? And I mean, that's kind of what's happening when you look at the news.

And the problem is that these are people who are serious. Like this isn't a joke. Like this isn't just like the worst kind of SNL skit that you can possibly imagine.

Right? Right. So, you know, yeah, I mean, are the best women actually men?

Well, no. I mean, not in any way imaginable. But if we're intent upon living out this delusion, then

I don't know where this is going to end up. But, yeah, unfortunately,

I think we're in the minority. Oh, yeah. Well, I think that there's a majority of people know that it's bizarro world and clown world, but then they just are far too afraid to even comment on, you know, cold, hard facts on the ground.

I mean, I think Babylon Bee just got banned from Twitter, essentially, for declaring

Richard to be man of the year. So who knows? We probably don't have a big enough following yet to get banned.

But we'll see. We're trying our best. That's for sure. Right. But, I mean, the point, though, is just that you can't just subjectively decide on your own whim just to be a member of the opposite gender.

And, you know, you can force people by coercion to play pretend, but that's all that's happening.

Everyone knows that Richard Levine has, like, he's just, you know, a pathetic loser dude that really, you know, if he lived in a past society, would have had, you know, a past society that actually cared about women and would have been the subject of mockery and, you know, had some guy friend straighten him out a little bit.

But now we're in a society that can't see the obvious. Now, a lot of people, they argue that these guys are actually women, you know, based off of different,

I guess, quote unquote, you know, scientific reasons, you know, whether it be, like, psychology or it be, like, a chemical, you know, they don't have the right balance of chemicals in their body or even sometimes,

I'm not sure if this is the case for either of these two guys, but I have seen stories where people talk about, hey, like, in some way, shape, or form, you know, like I was deformed when it came to, like, my genitalia when

I was born or whatever. They have all these, like, quote unquote, scientific reasons for why they can now choose to be the opposite sex.

So, Tim, is that actually, like, a legit thing? Like, is there actual, you know, real, solid science that would suggest that, for instance, a man can actually become a woman or, you know, vice versa, a woman can become a man?

Yeah, I mean... It feels like a joke. It feels like a joke question, honestly.

It feels like a joke question. I don't know how you ask that question so seriously.

Oh, man. Hey, society's giving me a lot of practice with all of this ridiculous stuff we've been talking about.

Oh, man. Well, I'm crying.

Get it together, Tim. Get it together. Oh. Okay. Recover.

Oh. We're going to have to cut some of it out. It hurts. It hurts. I'm not cutting any of this out,

Tim. I'm leaving this for everybody to hear. Oh, man.

I mean, there's like... This is one of the most well -attested facts of science that's possible.

You're actually crying. It's like, you know, it's one of those things that we're going to have to mark this not for kids, but boys have penises and girls have vaginas.

It's that kind of thing. I mean, it's just like there's obvious physical differences that anyone looking at science would know.

I mean, women have ovaries. Men have testicles. My goodness. It's one of the most well -attested facts of science that men and females are different.

In the beginning, God made them male and female. And so, I guess, it can be pretty confusing to be a science denier,

I guess, living in this society right now. I mean, there's no scientific evidence to show that an individual can be a member of the opposite sex.

I mean, really, it's so convoluted at this point that it's just a joke. I mean, it's just so convoluted. One of the things that's happened is that feminism has supposedly taught us that all of these gender stereotypes are essentially nonsensical.

So, essentially, gender is just this social construct. It's just something that we just invented, a figment of our imagination that male and female are essentially the same.

But then what happens is that if Bruce Jenner wants to become Caitlyn or whatever, what he does is he essentially claims all of these hopelessly outdated stereotypes and turns himself into a gaudy pinup model.

That's what happens. But the problem is that you have to pick your worldview.

Is gender a social construct, or are these gender stereotypes real?

And so then you're living in a world right now that basically they only have biological explanations for phenomenon.

That's the problem. So if everything has to be explained in terms of some kind of genetic or biological explanation, then you look at a subclass of humans who essentially feel as if they were born the wrong sex or something like that.

Then they must be suffering from some sort of gender dysphoria, to use the older language.

And then it must be some kind of biological problem as far as that's concerned.

But then what's interesting about it is that the more that this delusion sweeps over society, more and more individuals are identifying as basically a different gender than their biological gender or biological sex.

And so right now, essentially what's happening is you only have biological explanations that are allowed for these kind of things.

You can't treat it like it's a spiritual problem. And it used to be that we thought of it essentially as a moral problem and then a psychological problem.

And now it's just alternate biology at that point. Yeah, now it's not even a problem.

Yeah, it's not even a problem. It's just... there must be some kind of genetic difference or biological difference at that point.

But it's all a joke. It's a joke, right? Yeah. If you believe the idea that a man can become a woman, essentially you've just become a science denier.

All it takes is just looking at it in terms of what chromosomes you have.

There's only two letters. It's not that hard to follow. You either have two

X's or an X and a Y. And that's it. That determines whether you're a guy or a girl.

If you believe the science, right? If you love science and you believe in science, then it's that simple, really.

Yeah, it's not hard. Look at the anatomy, man. Yeah, just look downstairs and you'll figure it out real quick.

Alright, so the science is, you know... I mean, that's essentially a joke question at this point.

Alright, so moving on from the science, is there any sort of biblical basis for a man looking at himself and saying, hey, you know what?

No, I'm a woman now. Or is it instead when we read the Bible, it clearly tells us there's two genders.

There's only two. There's not like a spectrum. There's only two. And whichever one you are, that's the one you are.

And there's no changing it. What exactly does the Bible tell us in terms of gender and how our society views gender right now?

Yeah, I mean, Genesis 127, so God created man in His own image. In the image of God, He created them.

Male and female, He created them. So the Bible opens up with these words, essentially

God makes man and woman in His own image, and they are distinct creations of God.

Jesus points this out in Matthew 19, 4, where He says, Have you not read? He who created them from the beginning made them male and made them female.

So there is no wiggle room there biblically. This is a settled biblical issue that really doesn't require a whole lot of complicated hermeneutics to understand.

Yeah, pretty open and shut. Right. God made men, and God made women. And I mean, look at, you don't even really need the

Bible to tell you that. I mean, my goodness, just use your eyes, man. I mean, use your eyes.

Like, women are very different to look at than men. And everyone knows that.

Even little kids know that. Or just plain stupid at this point. But yeah, there's nothing in the

Bible that would seem to indicate that there's this possibility that there could be a woman who's trapped in a man's body.

In fact, the Bible would, we talked about this in our episode on men bonds, but there's essentially, the

Bible would prohibit men from wearing garments related to a woman or call it abomination. And it's the kind of thing that God acts in judgment on a society about.

The same thing, if a woman wears a garment pertaining to a man, that's considered an abomination. And it's these kind of abominations that the

Lord, causes the Lord to act in judgment and to remove a society.

And so, playing pretend at this level is a significant moral issue that angers

God. Right, yeah. God condemns effeminate men. So, it seems pretty,

I mean, it seems pretty open and shut. Well, I mean, that's condemning even, you know, acting like a member of the opposite sex or wearing, so acting like a member of the opposite sex or wearing garments or clothing or hairstyles related to members of the opposite sex.

But then if you take it one step further and you're identifying as a member of the opposite sex, like that's like blasphemy upon blasphemy.

Like that's next level, you know, blasphemy there. so the person, you know, like William Thomas or Richard Levine, who, they're biological men.

They're just, they're men. But then, And you know they are because they can't have a baby. Right, yeah.

I mean, there's so many, there's so many just easy ways to instantly know.

Even when they're, even when they're dressing like women. And I mean, you look at the picture of William.

My kids know that, man. My kids know that. They're like, why is that man like pretending to be a woman? Right. I mean, you just look at the,

Just look at the picture of William Thomas and his, you know, one piece, you know, bathing suit that he's racing in.

I mean, it's a woman's bathing suit. The Adam's apple gives it away. But then, the Adam's apple is what gives it away.

No, I mean, he's standing in that. The jawline, the shoulders, the Adam's apple.

Yeah, and the fact that his genitalia is hanging out. You know.

Oh, I mean, It's definitely not for kids. Yeah, this one's, yeah, 18 and up,

I guess. But, you know, it's just clear at every level that these are not actual women.

And, and it's, it feels, not only are we told, you know, hey, the Bible tells us it's wrong, you know, science totally disagrees with the idea that you can change your sex.

But then, besides those, you know, besides those things, it just, it feels icky and gross to even look at.

So, so for someone to, so for someone to, you know, go out in public and proclaim these things and let every news outlet talk about them, you know, so that everyone in the world knows exactly what they're saying.

They're claiming that they're actually women now. Something that would be totally shameful in any other society, you know, in history, past.

Something clearly, something has to be, you know, fundamentally wrong with you.

If you're, if you're willing. Yeah, I mean, they have a belly and they glory in their shame.

Right, right. So, so Tim, what I wanted to ask you is, you know, for someone to want to say something like this, for them to really,

I mean, pretty much just changed their life forever. No one's going to view you the same. Even if you, even if you go back, even if you say,

Hey, you know, I realized it was all wrong. No one's going to view you the same after this. So Tim, they're obviously messed up in some way.

How, what, what happened? What has to happen to a person to get them to that point where they say, hey, you know what?

I'm a woman now. And don't you dare question it. What gets a person to that point?

Well, I mean, I guess you have different explanations for it. So as a society, we've transitioned from older understandings of these things into, there's been various stages along the line.

I mean, you used to call the kind of guy who, you know, snuck into his mom's room and put on a bra or something like that.

You'd call him like a creepy pervert or something along those lines. So you would use a pejorative as it relates to that.

I mean, there'd be mockery. And I mean, you would think that that's fundamentally a perversion, that that was a moral problem that was happening as far as that's concerned.

With the rise of a psychological worldview, one of the things that happened was that transgenderism or gender dysphoria was viewed as a mental illness.

So all of these deviant sexual behaviors, they're viewed as mental illness.

And then that basically, like the idea of mental illness is like essentially some kind of quasi -biological problem, essentially.

And so it's not moral language, it's biological language that's happening there at that point.

And then, you know, now what's happening is that we're transitioning away from considering it like a mental problem or a sign of mental illness.

And now we're basically considering it just normal, just appraising it at that point.

But then, you know, individuals like Matt Walsh are still using... What's funny is like you have conservatives who are against this, like individuals like Matt Walsh, and they'll basically say that something like as they're trying to stand against the transgender movement, they'll basically say, hey, this is mental illness.

So they're stopping at step two, if that makes sense. And like these people should be pitied instead of condemned, like they should be pitied and they need like, you know, professional psychological help or something along those lines.

But that isn't far enough. I mean, this is a moral problem. This is moral perversion. The idea of perversion is like the idea of something being crooked, essentially.

And it's such a fundamental violation of God's basic design for humanity that it's deviant as far as that's concerned.

But how people get here is like, this isn't like a biological problem. This isn't a brain problem.

This is so contrary to the mental illness kind of view of it. This is a moral issue.

And I mean, Romans 1 essentially tells us what happens. I mean, when individuals give themselves over to sin,

I mean, when individuals refuse to acknowledge God in their thoughts, you know, although we knew

God, we didn't glorify him or give thanks, became futile in our thoughts and our foolish hearts became darkened.

God will give a society over to just various degrees of depravity.

And that's the way it works. And so, I mean, we're a society right now that is addicted to porn. And like the more and more that we view sexual perversion, the more and more we're shaped by it, the more and more that God gives us over to it.

So I think a large, a big problem with all of this is the pervasive nature of porn that's actually happening.

But then fundamentally, even beyond that, is that God is giving us our society over to lawless and shameless acts in such a way that basically just removing his restraining hand and giving us over to iniquity as far as that goes and removing his common grace at that point.

And so we're rushing headlong into perversion and this is just a manifestation of it. So to summarize, basically, it's a sin issue at the heart of it on a societal level and on an individual level.

It's a sin issue, yeah. Pete So in light of that, what do we as Christians do to help fix the problem?

So how do we help fix the problem at a societal level? And then how do we help individuals who are going so far as to put on, men putting on women's clothes and traipsing around and demanding that everyone praise them for it?

Yeah, I don't know that there's some kind of political solution that's going to happen here. I mean, fundamentally, we need repentance.

And so when God gives a society over to insanity to do things that are not fitting, fundamentally, what's happening there is that we need repentance.

We need to acknowledge God in our hearts. We need to turn back to Jesus. And I mean, the best thing that we can do as a society is to preach the gospel, to encourage people to repent of their sins and believe the good news.

So there's that. I think there's also, along with that, that's what's primary.

But then there's also secondary things that are helpful too, in that go hand in hand with that, not to replace that or just supplant that.

But I mean, I think often one of the things you're gonna find is that we're limiting a society right now that deeply lacks courage, and we need people to essentially call a spade a spade.

And we're living in an emperor's new clothes kind of scenario, a society -wide emperor's new clothes kind of scenario, essentially, where the emperor is coming up and parading his majesty and glory with his new outfit.

And there's no outfit to be had here. And part of the way things actually work is that often all it takes is just for people to chuckle a little bit.

And once one person starts to chuckle, then a lot of people start to chuckle, because everyone knows it's insane.

I think a lot of us know it's insane. We're just so afraid to say it's insane as a society.

And we need to quit. We need to take the kids' gloves off. And we need to actually call it what it is.

And we need more people who are willing just to say, hey, go ahead and cancel me. Do whatever you want to do. Take away my job. Take away whatever.

But I'm not going to pretend like this man is a better woman or something like that. I'm not going to play pretend.

I'm not going to engage in this kind of fantasy. This is insane. And this is crazy. And God's real.

And He exists. He made individuals male and female. And He makes the rules, not you.

And this is lunacy. So I think the more that we can share the gospel to people and quit being so afraid of our enemies, those are the hope that we have for our society to change.

So courageously and boldly stand against these things.

Call them what they are. Call people to repentance about it. Call people to repentance. Preach the gospel kind of thing.

Getting a little more specific, I remember in my first semester of seminary,

I was taking a family counseling class. I don't remember why we were talking about this, but I think we were talking about the issue of should

Christians who are witnessing to people who have some kind of gender dysphoria, should they refer to their preferred pronouns?

Or should they call them by their normal birth name?

So if you have a guy who's pretending to be a girl, the question is should you call him a him or a her?

And should you call him Joe or Jane? Which one do you call them?

And I remember I was sort of uninitiated at that point. And so I remember thinking, man,

I don't even know what I would do. And I had peers on both sides who were kind of arguing for both things.

So it seems like in the Christian world, at least in my experience, there's not really a consensus amongst

Christians in terms of what they should do with that. I mean,

I know Christians who do not agree with what's going on right now as it relates to gender dysphoria, but then they still would say, hey, if they say they're a her, then call them a her.

And you know it's not real, but just do it because you wanna show compassion to them and win them over.

So in terms of like, hey, we need to help stop this craziness that's going on.

And the way that we do that is the power of the gospel. Well, inevitably, you're gonna run into the issue of pronouns with these people.

So what should the Christian's response be? Should they use their preferred pronouns or not?

Yeah, I don't think that an individual should ever use pronouns for another individual.

So - Their preferred pronouns? Yeah, I mean, that's just, you're just engaging in nonsense right there and you're butchering the human language or the

English language beyond or whatever language you're happening to use at that point beyond belief.

So I mean, part of what's happening is the left is basically taking control of the dictionary and demanded that we speak what they want us to speak.

And so we shouldn't lie to people. This is not a he. This is, or this is not a she, this is a he.

Or if it's the opposite, it's not a she, it's a he. Or, you know, it's not a he, it's a she, whatever.

But basically with the pronoun kind of issue, that's pretty simple. Kind of, no,

I'm not going to call you a he, her, or zur, or him, or zay, or whatever.

Whatever these things are, we're just, we're not going to play pretend. And I think a lot of, in a lot of situations like that, you can kind of avoid it.

Although I think it gets more complicated in third person speech. But, you know, with you, with you, you and them alone, it can be kind of easy to avoid even talking about that kind of issue related to the pronouns.

But certainly we shouldn't. Isn't it kind of unloving? You know, I mean, that's what some people would say. Hey, it's unloving, you know, just meet them where they're at kind of thing.

That would be the objection to what you're saying. Well, we're living right now in a time where essentially we're being told that we have to lie to people in order to make them feel better.

And we've done that for many years as it relates to just male -female interaction. So I can't tell you how many times that I've heard, you know, pastors basically tell a man that, you know, when his wife is upset, just say, you're sorry, right?

Just say, you're sorry. Even if you didn't do anything wrong. And so we've, we have this bad habit in the church of essentially catering to people's feelings and lying to people is never the answer.

The Bible says the truth will set you free. It's not lies that are going to set you free. But then we did that during COVID.

We basically just lied to each other and told each other that, hey, you know, six feet apart is going to keep us all safe from this airborne virus.

And, you know, this little plastic barrier, you know,

I saw some situations where people are having interviews and they have this little plastic barrier up between themselves with air all around the plastic barrier.

And it's like, you have to deny science and pretend like this barrier is doing anything at all to help you.

And, you know, we've engaged in this mask wearing nonsense, even though we know that these airborne viruses are, it's like throwing a baby through a tennis racket.

It's insane. And so, but then what's happening is that we've adopted this broader policy in society of you lie to people in order to make them feel better is what you do.

And you do that across the board. And what matters is how people feel, not about what's actually true in any given situation.

So then when it comes to an issue like this, then, you know, it's like, hey, you know, just, just lie to a man, just go, just tell them what, tell them, tell them what they want to hear, you know, quit being so mean, quit being so rude, meet them where they're at, whatever.

But the problem is the Bible says the truth will set you free. So it's the truth that will set you free. It's not lies. The devil is a father of lies.

And he speaks of, he speaks as he does and his children speak the same way.

And so if we are of the Lord, we're going to be speaking the truth to these individuals. And that's the only loving thing to actually do, because I mean, like what, what, what needs to happen is you need to call them to repentance.

Like their only hope is repentance, man. And they're not going to be repenting if you're constantly, you know, basically feeding into the lie.

Yeah. So pronoun issue is fairly simple. I think the naming issue is a little more complicated, but I try to make it my policy, just I'll make it as simple as I can.

I try to make it my policy to deadname as much as possible. Pete So avoid the pronouns, but you deadname them as much as you can.

Jared Yeah, man, like you gotta, you know, I like, I'll call Bruce, Bruce. You know, part of the problem though is sometimes you don't actually know what their name actually is.

And so then you're in a bit of a pickle if now their new legal name is this female name instead of like, you know, the name assigned to them at birth.

And then the reality is that you can essentially, I mean, we do have precedent for people changing their names.

And there are individuals who have like male names, you know, there are males who have female names and are gender ambiguous names and everything else.

But, you know, I think in general, probably the safest thing to do in that kind of scenario is to refer to them as like a creepy pervert or, you know, man who identifies as a woman or something like that.

That would probably be the most faithful thing. Pete The most faithful. Jared The most faithful thing is to say this pervert over here or this, you know, this man pretending to be a woman, that would probably be the most loving and helpful and safe thing to do.

But then there's, you know, there's plenty of situations that, you know, that's easier to say in the

South than it is in a place where you might lose your job for doing that kind of thing. But I would say, yeah, morally, the safest thing to do is just to call him a creepy pervert.

Pete Essentially just saying like, hey, the loving thing is never going to be to lie to someone.

The loving thing is going to be to tell the truth to that person. Right, right, right. Okay, well, what about when it comes to the actual term transgender?

I mean, doesn't it kind of feel like if, if you're calling the person a transgender person, you're kind of conceding the point already in a way?

Jared Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think my, I think it's best just to say man pretending to be a woman or something like that or pervert.

Pete Okay. You're doing the kiss method.

Jared Keep it simple, man. No, I mean, I don't, I don't, I always cringe when people use the term transgender, like male or something like that.

Or transgender person, you know, even if they're, even

I just, I just cringe because it's like conceding the point and it's conceding the argument that this actually is a thing that actually exists.

I mean, and this is not, this is just a person, like, this is a man. You know, if this is a man, it's a man.

If it's a woman, it's a woman. And they're just pretending and no amount of plastic surgery is going to help.

You know, they, they are what they are. And I think we should try to avoid that term as much as possible.

And, you know, if we do use it, always make qualifications, you know, so -called transgenderism or something like that, just to communicate clearly.

But we should try to avoid it. Pete The next question I have is, you know, okay, so this is a bad thing.

We need to tell people the truth as much as possible. We don't need to feed into the lie. So that basically assumes the idea that we need to be confronting, you know, people who are claiming to be the opposite sex, right?

I'm right in that, right? Jared Well, I mean. Pete Yeah. Jared Certainly.

Certainly there's some confrontation needed. Pete Right. Um, so how far,

I mean, you know, how far out of your way do you need to go in terms of that, that confronting people?

So, for example, I live, you know, well, we, I mean, we both live in a town where, like, there's, there's definitely, there's, yes, essentially, that's essentially what it is.

I mean, it's pretty awful. Um, uh, because of, you know, it's a college town.

The university is very liberal overall. Uh, and so there's plenty of people who are,

I see guys all of the time who are wearing dresses and walking down the street, you know, so I'll see,

I'll see them. I'll walk past them. I'll think, oh, that was like, I'll kind of shudder a little bit because it's really gross to look at seeing a man trying to be a woman and failing.

Um, so in that kind of scenario, uh, you know, should

I be the, should I be the person who's like stops them and says, hey, like, it looks like you're, it looks like you're trying to pretend you're a woman.

You're not a woman. Like, I mean, obviously, you know, you have a moral responsibility here, uh,

Harrison that as you're driving your car to stop it in the middle of the road and jump out and say, excuse me, man pretending to be a woman.

Um, no, I mean, I don't think that there's some moral responsibility to confront every act of sin that you see, um, in, in terms of how those things work.

I mean, there are a variety of, um, uh, considerations that are happening.

And I mean, I think if, if there's some, I mean, if there's some moral responsibility to confront every act of sin that you ever see, um, you're, you're kind of in trouble because there's no end to it.

And there's no, so I don't, uh, obviously I don't think that there's some moral responsibility.

I mean, there's a certain sense in which it's like, hey, we don't judge those who are on the outside, but we judge those who are on the inside and like church discipline, proper

Matthew 18 applies to, um, essentially, you know, if you see your brother in sin, you confront him, you tell him his fault between you and him alone.

So we have like, there are, um, degrees of responsibility in terms of how those things work.

And, um, when you have individuals in your own church, naming the name of Christ, engaging in a clear, uh, uh, unambiguous sin, there's a moral responsibility to, uh, confront that in a more direct way than in every instance of sin that you're going to see in the world.

And now, I mean, I wouldn't retreat to some kind of subjective, like charismatic, uh, just let the Holy Spirit tell you when to, you know, when to brush their hair, when to brush your hair kind of thing.

I mean, I, I think you, you know, if you love them, you're going to talk to them. Um, particularly if there's a occasion and opportunity, and I would even think you need to try to make occasions and make opportunities and be praying for that too.

Uh, but there's certainly some kind of wisdom in, um, figuring out how to navigate those kind of scenarios.

But I mean, certainly you're living in a society right now that you can get sued, uh, for doing that.

And, um, and, you know, Christians need to be more bold and count the cost, uh, as far as those things are concerned.

And, uh, you know, or we'll just get pushed into our ghettos until we're, you know, surrounded, um, like, uh, lotless and settled.

Basically, basically. So I, I think we need to be confronting a lot more than what we actually do. And if we actually love people, we would be confronting a lot more than what we're actually doing.

And we're probably, uh, much more cowardice than like our central failing at this point is that we're cowards, not that we're overly confronting, uh, all of these things.

But, you know, uh, I think that's true across the board, but we do need to, um, we do need to be more bold as far as these things are concerned, be willing to suffer for it.

Okay. Yeah. I think that all makes a lot of sense overall. Um, you know, in closing, you know, is there anything else that you want to say that you feel like maybe we, we need to make sure is said in this, on this topic?

Yeah. I mean, I, I think, you know, as you think through the, just the topic question in general, or, um, are the, the, the best, the best women actually men,

I mean, it's, we're, we're living in such an insane society right now that it's just difficult to comprehend the level of foolishness that we're actually engaging in.

And it's just, uh, it's crazy to think that everything that the Bible, um, advocates for,

I mean, the Bible does advocate for, you know, male leadership in the world and church and home.

But then we view that as fundamentally problematic. And we think of men as fundamentally the villains.

Almost every single interaction in the oppressors. And this is just, it was funny as these, this is obvious.

These are obvious examples of oppression by men. Like when you think about these examples of individuals engaging in women's sports, and you think about these examples of, you know, uh, you know, a man being named a woman of the year, we've, we've kind of lost our mind.

And this is what happens when you just embrace like a series of, uh, nonsensical, uh, propositions that we're like, it's such a mess at this point.

And like, there, there's no unraveling it. None of it makes any sense, you know, uh, none of it makes sense.

And, and, uh, feminine, you can't combine feminism and transgenderism. They're fundamentally different philosophies.

And we're just, we've, we're in insane world. But I mean, I think it is one of those things where it's just like, obviously we need to have compassion and pity for these people who are caught up in these kinds of delusions.

And I mean, they're the kind of delusions that you go, you, you know, you, there's going to be a plague of individuals who have transitioned their gender, you know, uh, quote, unquote, uh, there's going to be a plague of individuals basically who have removed any hope they ever have of having children or having a normal relationship with a member of the opposite sex, uh, because they got caught up in these kinds of delusions and they took these hormones and they've surgically altered themselves.

And, and I mean, it's sad to think about and like it's, um, uh, and so,

I mean, we should be burdened for them and be willing to speak the truth and love to them and share the gospel with them. And part of that is going to involve confronting them about what they're doing.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that's a good place for us to stop overall. So hopefully this has been a helpful episode for you guys.

And, uh, you know, for those out there that are listening, that are, you know, either tempted, uh, to pretend to be the opposite sex or are currently pretending to be the opposite sex, we want to implore you guys, uh, to,

I say guys, hopefully that didn't offend anyone or whatever, but you know, we want to implore you, um, to hear the gospel, to hear the gospel proclaimed and to repent, to realize that what's going on is wrong and it's sinful and it dishonors

God and, and you're in rebellion against him. And you can be forgiven, right?

Right. But you can be forgiven. If you realize those things, if you humble yourself and confess that Jesus Christ is

Lord and that your ways are evil and wrong, just like, I mean, everyone's ways are evil and wrong.

Uh, no, no one is righteous. Uh, no, not one. Uh, and so, so if you can realize that and, and turn away from, from this evil thing, uh, not only will you avoid a life of heartache and disappointment, you'll, you'll experience forgiveness and new life, uh, through Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

If you can turn from these things. And so there's hope there. It's not just, you know, condemnation after condemnation.

There's hope. If you can humble yourself and in faith, um, trust and God's promises.

And for those of you who are listening, who probably, who might know someone who is, um, who is dealing with, uh, you know, gender dysphoria or whatever you want to call it.

We want to call you to call on you to be bold and, and share the truth with them.

Because, uh, if you love them, that's what you'll do. You'll share the gospel with them.

You'll plead with them to turn away from these things that ultimately do nothing but destroy in every way possible.

So hopefully this has been a helpful episode and an encouraging episode for you guys. And we want to thank you for listening and look forward to seeing you on the next one.

This has been another episode of Bible bashed. We hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our discussion.

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Now, go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.