Music Glorifying God | Rapp Report Weekly 0038 | Striving for Eternity

Things of other topics I wanted to get into with you Some stuff with social justice and and the gospel and stuff like that.

Okay, I tell you what, I'll sum that up real quick The gospel is the solution. Well by me saying it doesn't mean just preach the gospel what it means is is to go out preach the gospel teach people to observe all that Jesus Christ has taught you and Love you

God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself because when you're doing those things Guess what? You don't have these issues with Social issues and so forth and granted, you know because we live in a sinful world we're going to have simple people who do simple things like practice stuff like racism and so forth and the only answer to Situation like racism.

It's not another March It's not more laws because if that stuff would have worked and we wouldn't have racism the solution to those things

It's the very solution to sin because that's exactly what it is So you preach the gospel and you love your neighbor and you pray for your enemies just like Christ told us to do

Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rep report. We provide biblical interpretations and applications

This is a ministry of striving for eternity and a Christian podcast community for more content or to request a speaker for your church

Go to striving for eternity dot org All right, this is the rap

Report I am Andrew rap for your host and This may be the first time that we're actually going to talk about what many thought this podcast was about For folks who don't know when we first started this the name before we just called it rap

Report and I got emails from people that were upset with me because they said this has nothing to do with rap

Music they thought that's what this show is about. You didn't get the pun on my last name

But we are gonna have someone here who well He knows a thing or two about rap music more than me and a whole lot of other styles of music

Which again more than me, but we we got T Barlow Some of you may know of him if you listen to the bar podcast now some of you may say be saying the bar podcast

I never listened to them Let me ask this very simply. What is wrong with you? The bar podcast stands for biblical and reformed and I think that I've been excited because actually

T Barlow is the last of the shows on the bar podcast that I haven't either been on their show or they've been on mine

So I've been like super excited because it's like the one guy. I haven't had a chance to really sit down and talk with so So welcome to you.

How are you? Oh grace and peace man. God is good. I'm so Grateful to be here. I'm doing well

Thank you for having me on your show Now you do you do and and we talked about this privately and I talked with Dwayne Atkinson about this

Yours is the only show on the whole bar podcast network I think that I don't listen to and I and I've said that oh not because there hasn't there's not good content there it's just some clueless when it comes to some of the spinners and and the the talk on the music that I'm clueless about But I also have the one other problem is that I listen at triple speed and you have the music going in the background and It throws me completely off Yeah, which by the way, that was the way the idea, you know

I just always thought that it would be good to have something like, you know Just a filler and he just especially it would like me doing like a music show

A music interview having music in a background was just seems like a natural thing for an interview

With an artist and so forth and I've heard that for some folks a couple say, you know, like the music kind of distracting

But yeah at the same time, you know in all honesty, like I never I got record a show I never go back and listen to me.

I Hate the sound of my voice. It was just weird, you know But yeah, man, you know and and here's another thing, you know

Can you talk about how like you don't know a lot about me? That's that's one of the reasons why we actually started doing

Bars, which my particular shows called bars biblical and reformed spitters and It was a way to kind of make people aware of certain artists that you wouldn't know

Especially the ones that you wouldn't normally see The ones who don't get to make it to like the

BET Gospel Awards and so forth, you know, like the ones just some of the unknown artists who genuinely love

God Genuinely have a heart for for praising him through their art and talent

It was a way to to get us kind of like bringing them on getting them to talk about it and then even like like over the course of time like way ended up happening is we ended up getting some of the more bigger names in underground

Christian rap of Christian hip -hop people like Timothy Brendle for example or Stephen the lead by these guys who have been doing it for years who have kind of made they mark again, like if you are aware of If you're aware of Christian rap over the past, let's say like 10 -15 years

Those are two of the names that that you will be familiar with if you've been listening to sound solid

Reformed rappers, you would know guys like that and you know, I mean, it's just it's just been a blessing man.

It's been fun I've had an opportunity to talk with folks who I've been listening to for years and whose music

I love and actually learned a lot From and and even like as you sit down and you're talking about their music

You're getting some good biblical content. You're hearing their testimonies about how God saved them Is you know, it's a well -rounded of show

I believe Based upon the fact that it's not really just about rap even though that sometimes they'd be like our main

Conversation is but it's just you know, you actually get this opportunity to to hear how the gospel has affected their lives now

I want to I mean, I want to get into a lot with the show and Some of that but I I want to ask about your background, but you mentioned having some folks on your show

So have you gotten folks on your show have you been starstruck have you gotten people on there? You're like, wow, I can't believe you're on my show.

So, all right. I'm not really the type to get starstruck However, I am the type to name -drop and now not with other folks but more so with my children

Because we listen to we listen to this music like all the time And so I would go and I'd be like, hey guess who

I'm talking to maybe like who I'm like Steve in the Levi you know and You know and or I'd be like this time

I had like Ivy Connelly on there. I guess guess what about to have an interview with who Ivy Connelly?

So it's like I look I look all important to my kids not you know I you know, so you do you want to make sure your kids are looking up to dad and being like dad's the coolest

Yeah, yeah, you know like so nobody could tell him. Otherwise, you can't tell me anything about my dad He talked with Timothy Brindle.

So, you know, you don't have several seats, you know I Know really the starstruck type.

I mean people are people, you know I get I do get excited when

I feel but it's not like like falling out tearing up my hero, you know, I Got starstruck once and it was really funny because it's someone that most people wouldn't like I mean,

I've I've met guys You know Ray Comfort Kirk Cameron, you know,

Todd Friel Like I've got to meet folks like that speak at conferences folks like that yeah, you people would think like if you're gonna get starstruck it'd be like with a

Phil Johnson or Todd Friel or Ray Comfort someone like That you know, I guess struck with someone that anyone that doesn't know anything about Mormonism doesn't even know the name

But it's Sandra Tanner and anyone who know really anything about Mormonism knows who she is

But when I started studying Mormonism, I mean like her and her husband Gerald like with the the

You know apologists against Mormonism and I'd read so much of their stuff.

I was doing an apologetics cruise Myself and that's like where they were the keynotes and she was gonna be there and it was it was like I said to my

Wife like I'm super nervous about meeting her. She actually added me on Facebook. I remember that I called a friend of mine and I'm like,

I actually thought it was a fake account Like why is she adding me and I actually contact her said like, you know, it's a real account like why are you adding me and she was like, oh,

I follow your stuff and I was like I met her and my wife thought it was the funniest thing that she's like you've never been this way with anybody

It was just the you know something about getting to meet her like I mean We had someone that was actually staying in the room with her that worked for a street and she didn't know who

Sandra was But she was like man listening to you talk about her I feel like this is like the coolest privilege to be sharing a room with her

Yeah, I mean, you know it's a thing like it's really cool because like one of the things like you think about the heroes of the faith over years, you know over the years like imagine like being able to to be able to have had a

Interaction with like Augustine or or with Whitfield You know saying that somebody like that that nature or even like back in the day like having been able to have interaction with Peter And I obviously of course

Jesus, but like I mean like when you think about like how years from now people are going to know their names like their names are going to come up in like a course and you actually had a chance to sit and be a part of Church history by that type of interaction so to speak and so I think

I totally dig that man I'd like to be able 10 years 20 years from now when people talk about who are the greatest to do the

Christian rap thing I could be like, well, you know, I actually had a conversation and it's recorded and it's out there

It's in the cloud. Like, you know, you can go back you can go back revisit. It's not I think that's a cool thing, man I definitely definitely don't worry about time by time.

Your kids are old enough like your age There's not gonna be a thing called a cloud. So I mean like that no, but you know a great thing about the the fatherhood aspect because I'll tell you son it you know, my kids grew up knowing that you know

Yeah, I travel and speak and I go to these different places I get you know, my my kids have gotten to meet some some well -known people and But they just grew up with that They didn't really have like an appreciation for it until like my

I remember my daughter she went away to college and it was just funny because it was like there's people that are speaking at her chapel that know who

I am and they're like like excited to meet her because like wow, you're Andrew Rapport's daughter and she's like like like but the biggest

Change was when I think really a big change in her whole Relationship was when

I was invited to speak at her university and all of a sudden it wasn't you know, this is my dad I'm being dragged along with him to go speak

She was having her dad speak and she was the person so it was like I actually said

To students. I'm like you ever have that pressure like, you know, you're just you're with mom and dad and you know

Someone's like oh you're so -and -so son or daughter and you feel that immediate pressure You have to perform.

Well, you have to behave well because it reflects back a mom and dad I just see I hear this like groan throughout the entire audience of thousands of students and I went that's how

I feel right now I'm Shannon And everyone Wow let's talk about your background first because I want our folks that listen to our podcast to know a little bit about you how you got saved and You know just where the

Lord's led you to where you are today all right, so well, you know, we I grew up in Omaha born in Chicago, but grew up in Omaha, Nebraska and You know,

I was kind of the I grew up in the church At the age of at the age of six not give or take

I think about six years old I remember talking with the pastor's son of the church.

We were in which is back. We're in Chicago and telling me about Christianity you mean at least like what he knew to explain because he was he himself was like 10 years old at the time and The kind of convinced me.

It's like I know I say, you know what? I want to be a Christian, you know, and so forth or went told my dad who was a deacon at the time and You know long story short

I ended up getting baptized in that church So I grew up, you know in the Baptist tradition and so back in those days we did things like, you know

Like our family is our family did first the foremost I mean, let me put some background to my family real quick. My mom and dad got married at a

Bible study Okay, so so there's that You know and so That you can't just drop that and be like let's move on Yeah, you know cuz like, you know, like they they met each other

I mean, you know like they met each other through One of my older cousins one of my dad's cousins introduced them to you know

And that they courted for a couple of years my mom stuck by his side my dad came in and and was like showed himself to be in love with both her and her children who basically were my older brother and sister and whatnot and so they

Decided to do it when one March one day in March during a Bible study They got married and all the witnesses for the people of that Bible class

Was this planned before the Bible study that they were gonna do this or it's just they surprised everyone at the

Bible study Oh, no, it was planned. You can tell cuz when you look at the pictures you can see that they kind of set it up But it's like a we're gonna have

Bible study and a wedding, you know Which is how I went down and it was really nice I was just Here surprised at your at your

Bible at the Bible study like Right, and you know and I was baptized by the very same preacher who?

Who officiated that that wedding and so forth and so our Sundays were you're gonna wake up We went to Sunday school and then at the

Sunday school, of course We had morning service and then at the morning service we had what's called BTU Which is which stands for Baptist Training Union and whatnot

So that was like actually that was like a it was like a second Sunday school After the service and then at the

BTU most likely there was an evening service. We sometimes would not get home until 10 o 'clock Sunday night

Wow, I was spent having spent all day in service. So that's that's how it that's how we came up And then when we moved to Omaha, it was a little different But it was still

Sunday school and it'll still morning service And then if there was an afternoon service, we will go to that and then mama

Will do prayer meeting a Bible study by on Wednesdays and then of course whatever throughout the week if I you know

I kind of saying I came up singing in the choir and so forth and then about ninth grade I started playing the drums for the choir.

So I was like and then I'll not only was I playing the drums for the choir but I also started playing quartet

Gospel quartet music I was a drummer for a quartet group and so forth So it's like, you know, I was always involved.

But here's the kicker though I can't say definitively that I was always saying

You know, like I knew certain things. I was you know, I you know, like I understood certain stuff

I mean it's but it's just there if anything I had a long period of Backsliding, especially once I got to high school

You know, I just things that Christians shouldn't do I partook, you know I just did a lot.

I just did a lot of sinful a lot of sinful things and But you kind of get back really also to the to the upbringing of the child

What am I I want to I want to tell you that was a pastor. I pastor here in Omaha Reverend Ali Kendrick he

Always he told me that he said I've always saw something different about you and whatnot And so everything

I ever asked him if I could do he would allow me to do And as a kid sometimes as I mean as a high school student

Like I would like teach classes and what he did was just kind of start me He brought me into his office and I would teach the

Sunday school lesson to him and a couple of deacons You know and it was there it was this way of kind of training me on how to teach

And the one day one day I mean it was just a special day. He said hey, you know, it's you Sunday We're gonna have him teach the class.

And so I stood up and I thought Sunday school to the adult class, you know That that that was kind of just one of those things that He kind of I don't know.

I don't know where it came from I got I loved teaching right but at the same time also during that time,

I got love sin You know, and so I got involved in quite a few different things between you know like your regular teenage mischief smoking pot and and and Stealing cars at times joyriding and stuff like that.

And I mean, it's just In school, I really wasn't a thug I was a class clown So I was just always just into something very hyperactive, you know

And as an adult and it was really really in heavily getting it, you know into it's just to to smoking, you know to getting high

Getting drunk chasing girls and doing this Monday through Friday Excuse me

Monday through Saturday and then waking up on Sunday morning and going to church participating in the choir Whatever the case may be, you know, like that was my that was my life

That was my Christian living and what my quote -unquote Christian living But I think the turnaround was when

I went to a service one night to hear this man speak by the name of G Craig Lewis G Craig Lewis was

He has this ministry called ex ministries and at the time the message that he delivered was the exact message that I needed to hear and What he was doing was is he was preaching against like the it was preaching that he was actually he's preaching against hip -hop and the sin that it promoted and so Way, he's preaching against that.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, oh yeah, and I'm gonna straighten this up so he because he believed

His his teacher was hip -hop was a demonic religion that has no place in the church, right?

Now at that time and hearing that message and what he does is he goes through a lot of different artists lyrics and stuff and He's playing certain stuff in the same

LA and basically his argument is just like, oh, how can a Christian listen to this? Right.

And so at that point I remember like that night, you know saying like I just I went

I like I got rid of all my CDs and so forth and throw them all in the trash and and I went on like a purge of Anything that had to do with entertainment for like a few years, you know

Like I got me like and and then I started going on witch hunt after this like I was seeing demonism and everything, you know

Yeah, I mean just everything I got really really really legalistic from all of this

Thinking that at this point, you know sound like that You know that I took up a new calling and a new man

So that's a watchman on the tower and I gotta warn these people of all this Demonism this any other than I mind you as I'm doing all of this at no point

I'm a really really like sharing the gospel, you know but like I was all into like studying about secret societies and Satanism and Luciferianism and all this jazz

Well check this out still doing all of that and I'm still finding myself more often than not sliding into sinful relationships and simple activity

At some point at one point Um, I kind of slowed down and really started like just reading this study in a word and started having like discussions with people

About salvation. I tried to try to come to a point to I was understanding whatever about my salvation

Um, I don't have like a date or a special like moment where I mean that there's one time

I could really say where I just kind of just started fasting and praying and I just knew

Like I just knew I was just convicted of a lot of things in my life that I was just out of place and out of order and I just wrong, you know and And I kind of I remember that moment and maybe that's the moment that I can actually say that I know for sure if I didn't

Know any time before that that I would say if I could pinpoint a moment. I don't have the date I don't have it I just remember where I was

I remember the room and I remember being as low as I ever been in my life and I Remember also like just making the decision from that point on said

So God like I I repent like I quit like I'm done with all of that You know for you

I live for you I'll die and at that point it ain't saying that I've been perfect and been like floating in holiness but what

I'm saying is is that I'm nothing like from that moment on I was nothing like what I was before that, you know, and and and I began to I began to a start taking up the calling seriously because mind you

I'm gonna tell you this I started preaching in 2010 and even in 2010, you know

It's preaching, you know like there was still some areas of my life like where like if again like if I can go back and do it out of either not

Preached or I don't really cut them off like right away. Like I was just wrong But but I wasn't like ordained as a preacher until 2013 and that came and that came like after the repentance, you know after the repentance came

The the catechism and ordaining and like I said after that point man it's just been like I kind of been like on a straight street and and and and I've been on this mission to To preach the gospel that saved me to people who need salvation or even to people who have salvation

I've been on this mission to get people Back to the Word of God because one of the things that I was noticing for example from like and here's what

I say like I think on so many levels God used G Craig Lewis and But on another level, you know,

I began to see that like this man isn't really preaching the word now He'll quote some scriptures, but he'll ripple wildly out of context to fit his agenda to fit his preferences to fit his message

You know Not way to interpret scripture, I mean, that's what everyone does on the radio and TV Yeah, I feel like if the

Bible says that we should study to show ourselves to prove into where we you know to rightly divide

The scripture that means to me like there's a wrong way You know

And you know and that's that's what happened there. I mean, you know and it's amazing to me

You know, like how how easy it is to take a scripture to throw it out there and folks will just snatch it up and Eat it, you know

Yeah, when it's when especially when it's not thrown out there right when especially when it's not preached rightly

Hey, so they'll take that and they'll just run with this and it's like whoa slow down, you know a couple weeks ago I guess priest at a church and every time

I guess preach at a church. I Set the stage for what type of preacher I am because you know as a black man growing up in a black church

That's a certain thing that they expect from black preachers that I just refuse to give them

I don't hoop and I don't and I don't holler. Um, I don't I'm not because I'm like, I'm not here to entertain you

I'm not here to get you emotionally riled up. I'm not here to you know, say Get you all happy.

I'm here to preach the Word of God Let's explain like what this means and so a couple of weeks ago when I was preaching at this church, you know

I was explaining to them how how it's very important to deal with the context of a scripture and so could give them to prove my point

I quote a scripture and the scripture says all these things I'll give to you if you just fall down and worship me and I was

Like on the surface listening to that scripture that doesn't sound bad until you realize that that's

Satan talking to Jesus You know, yeah, right, you know

So when I hear people like G Craig, which by the way again mind you I definitely believe that he brought me to that that God used him to at least put me in a realization of Like where I was spiritually in a sense, you know,

I said, so I like like I bet yeah I glad yeah, why am I still in my heart and mind with these things, you know?

Why am I you know, so why you don't say like like how can I? Approve of somebody who blatantly blasphemes

God. That's that's a horrific thing And that's a deep Craig hit the nail on the head with that right there I believe um, however problem is this like this, you know, well not everything

I think one of the things you're trying to say is that look all of us are This is the thing about the thing a lot people don't

Remember or think about with other people as much as we do with ourselves that we're still growing the Lord's not just the author but the finisher of the work he does in us and Yeah, think about how much more

God's doing in us But a lot of times we forget as if like everyone else has arrived and not still growing and so yeah

I mean, there's a lot of people even in my life that I could think of who? at early in The time that I knew them there's a lot of things that I thought

I mean look I thought growing up in a Jewish home and The first christian

I really found as a teacher was harold camping and I know people are cringing right?

Yeah, I found him on the radio and the guy spoke so authoritatively I knew nothing about christianity other than what

I was reading in a bible. I didn't have church. I didn't have other christians I wasn't going to go talk to the rabbis about jesus

And so I was alone and when I got when I was 17, I learned found him on the radio man

I thought he was the bomb I thought I knew his stuff and then when I got into college and started learning the bible

I went this guy's nuts Yeah, you know

Yeah, I was born a lot, you know, and it's like it's crazy But you know and it's like you try not to be because I understand that like you're going to different things with folks sometimes

I mean like that just happens. They're not necessarily mean that they're heretics and so forth But you know, i'm this other person now these days when somebody starts saying god told me, you know

And they don't have a scripture or verse to quote what god told them, you know I'm at that point.

I began to think like you're on the fringes of you're on the fringes of crazy right now, you know I was joking with justin peters one day and I could never do this, but I told him

I was so tempted to do this I wanted to like put a post out like on facebook and on like a monday and say

The the lord has spoken to me. I've got I got a word from the lord I will reveal it on friday and like every day post that right?

And then on friday just read a scripture of judgment to people that people that are looking for I said i'd love to do that He goes.

Yeah, but how many people are going to tune you out as a heretic long before friday comes I said That's why I can't do it

And now that i've said this like if I ever try it everyone's gonna be like, yep, we know what this is about Yeah, yeah, your your listeners will

You know, I hope hopefully if you ever do that, I hope they share the post I'm just gonna share we know what this is.

We're gonna share it You know, but you you were talking earlier I mean, it's interesting because you're saying when you go in your guest speaker and you don't do the hooping and hollering and for some

Folks, they don't know what that's about and I know I have a friend of mine cliff who

He grew up in the the african -american church all by hooping and hollering And he was talking about it and he said he's like, you know, people don't even listen for what it is.

You're saying It's just the emotional uh The emotion it brings and the the cadence to bring you to where it's a trained response

He's like I could be preaching a nursery rhyme and people would amen it and i'm like What do you like how would you do that and we were in in the lobby of a missionary center

And he literally starts talking the little miss muffet. He's like little miss muffet. She's sad He's like doing this whole

This whole thing and no joke. This woman is walking through the lobby and she goes amen brother

My jaw just hit the ground and I was like He was right.

It was like She He was talking about little miss muffet sitting on her puffin her duffin and he's like I was like you got to be kidding me.

Yeah. Yeah, man It's that it's that bad man and like as a matter of fact, man, like you like like I sit and I listen when

I Because i'm the guy listening to these guys like when I like when I go and mind you some of these preachers man Oh, so on so many levels on certain levels, man.

I have I have a profound respect for um, you know But like I listen to some of these guys preach Would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks in that moment

That's right To learn more go to strivingforeternity .org

to host a bible interpretation made an easy seminar in your area Why are you doing it?

Sharing the good news with mormons includes 24 helpful essays from two dozen christian apologists scholars and pastors

Pick up your copy at the utah lighthouse bookstore or order directly from mrm .org

I'm, i'm good

And i've seen guys get ridiculous man i've seen people step out of the pulpit and start walking on pews stepping over pews and stuff and it's just like Anderson doesn't he do that?

I But let okay, let's let's talk about the music because so you got a you got a a show that That talks about music and deals with musicians in the back.

I have listened to a couple. I listened to the one uh, uh with ivy and uh uh brindle and yeah, you know part of the thing is i'm i'm not

I Just I didn't grow up with music. Um, I just it's not

I don't listen to music. There's no music. I remember when I was on the bar podcast and and I listened to enough of the bar podcast that I knew what was coming and Duane's like so what music's on your pot on your phone and i'm like actually none.

I mean there there's nothing There's not a single tune. I have nothing in my music, you know, it's like I listen to podcasts.

I listen to sermons I just but you know, I did grow up in the fundamentals baptist church when

I say grew up I mean as a christian, I mean I was I was in my 20s by the time I first walked into a church really um you remember but You know in that it was the fundamentals baptist.

So they would have the same view Of rap music as they would rock music everything. It was all of the devil

And so that was my inclination. I remember Listening and I can't tell you the artist's name, but I remember listening to for the first time listening to someone doing a

Rap song and what impressed me the most was the amount of theology that I heard.

I mean it was Packed and I sat there going, you know this It's it's like a really this is how

I describe it It is rap music to me seems to be a very for for guys to do it for christian guys to do it and do it

Well, it seems like it is a fast -paced Uh rhyming sermon.

Yeah And Rap allows you to pack a lot of content into a song and here's here's the perfect example

Um, so after you know after the whole few years after listening to g craig, right?

I came across accidentally or or actually by happenstance by doing through a mutual friend That's also called a friend on facebook.

Yeah by by providence. That's a good one I can't I I can't by by the providence of god. I came across Shilin And he has a song called the greatest story ever told right?

And when I listened to this in three verses this man summarized The entirety of scripture and he

I mean he rapped about the fall of man and then he rapped about Uh the prophets and and the coming revelation, uh, you know in the revelation of jesus christ

Basically the prophecies of jesus christ and then in the third verse he actually raps about jesus christ Coming and settling everything that that that went wrong in his first verse, you know,

I mean and when I heard that I was And mind you I what I did one of the things

I failed to mention is is that I actually used to um To to make like secular. Well, I don't know secularism.

I used to make music. That wasn't so god glorifying Uh, you know, I I wrote songs. I recorded songs

I mean nothing that anybody has heard that has made any significant mark in the culture or anything like that But I was

I was a poet. I started writing poetry in high school Uh as a drummer, I naturally I took the writing like to the to the beats and so forth

And so I was writing songs. I was very I was just very fun loving I love cadences and we're playing rhythms and stuff like that when

I heard g craig lewis I was like, oh I have to stop this. This is of the devil, right? That's kind of how I was

And then and then when when I providentially heard the greatest story ever told

I like click and it's like oh, you mean I can glorify God with this Like like I could do this

And it's like listening to it and I remember using I used to think like man christian rap was corny

It was like man. I want to hear corny christian rap Like there was nothing corny about this song and then I began just looking for like other songs and as a matter of fact

I remember I remember Because I would have these these online debates with people about salvation and stuff on facebook, right?

I was one of those guys Uh still kind of am a little bit but not not now not as much as I used to And I remember always believing and thinking just always believing and thinking before I ever heard anything about the reformers and this any other that salvation cannot be lost and that salvation that being saved meant something meaning that like if i'm saved i'm gonna do save things like Um fight sin, you know what

I mean? Like i'll kill sin You know kill the flesh and in doing so that you will always keep the salvation and this guy calls me a calvinist

I said Oh what the dreaded singer? Yeah, you know and so And so, you know,

I went and looked that up and I and I saw Uh five points of calvinism and I was like man, how dare you call me that?

I don't believe that, you know, I was in denial, you know, because I knew nothing of unconditional election limited atonement

You know and so forth and which were of course the two most Most offensive to me like like no jesus christ died for the world but god so loved the world sir, you know, like That's how

I was and um And but I was like, but like I went on to explain to what I believe about salvation.

He was like brother. You're a calvinist You know and and so I was like so against that so Fast forward probably to god i'm here in chilean, right?

And i'm searching up other songs and chilean has this song called mission accomplished that I came across I I've heard that Yeah that song rocked my soul

When I because sitting there listening to her rap then and I was like at first My first reaction was

I can't believe this man is rapping and he's a heretic. I can't believe you're saying that And then I went back and listened and then I went back and listened to it again

And I was just like oh my goodness. This is starting to make sense I went back and listened to it a third time and it was like man What if I've been believing my whole life, you know, and it's like he it made so much

Sense at the logical conclusion for those of y 'all who don't know who are listening Mission accomplished talks about for those whom christ died and he explains how

That you know, because the chorus goes god knows he tried and he's saying that like what are you saying?

When you say that jesus christ came and died for every single individual past present and future And then what do you say when certain people go to hell?

Like are you saying that god tried to save them and then failed and he was like perish the thought like like that?

Like no, and then he started talking about the triune working of god in our salvation

How the father elects and how the son sets free and the holy spirit seals and he says the father and the spirit

Uh, the father son and spirit are completely unified in our salvation if the election is not universal and if the regeneration is not universal

Then how can the atonement be universal? He said that will put the father son in the spirit at eyes

As I sat there and listened to that my eyes at that point I became reformed I mean,

I mean I began I began I began looking and searching and studying and certain stuff just began to make so Much sense to me and matter of fact, this is this is what led to me stopping the witch hunts uh

You know saying oh folks because I began to understand that why would I sit here and harp about what sinners are doing?

That's what sinners do what I should do is present the gospel as a solution to sin

And say, you know because so like now like it comes like did you hear what beyonce did? Well, you know, I expect beyonce to do what beyonce does because she's a sinner

But here's the response to that here's the biblical response to this here's you know, and here's why we shouldn't do this here's why

Here's why god hates that, you know and so forth and there's like here's what god did in order to circumvent the effects of that, you know, and it got to the point to me saying like look like Sinners are going to love what sinners do.

Yeah I can sit here and preach to them talk to them blue in the face about how such and such might be a devil worship They don't care.

The music sounds good or they're good actresses and actors and so forth But however, if you go to them and you deal with them and say hey, you know,

I noticed that you're doing this Here like, you know, do you understand that this leads to death?

You know if I didn't love you, I will let you just do this but because I love you I want to point you to somebody who can deliver you from your your from your desire to do this

Or from your from this feeling that you have to do and and it caused me to just have more

Genuine conversations with real people about their real issues as opposed to focusing on somebody in a spotlight

Who's doing exactly what they want to do, you know, um, and and again this through music

And so from that point on I began like listening and searching for more and there's a lot there's so many

So many artists out there so many classic rap albums in the christian hip -hop community that I have yet to even hear

You know because I hear people talk about them all the time But like there's just so much out there and with a with a rap song just like you said you can put so much content um into a song

One of the things I think is interesting is the fact that the first time I got that I heard a rap song period

Was a guy who now he's on our board of directors and we went out to the creation museum He put in his music basically whoever drove got to choose the music

And my stuff was all hymns and classical music And he starts driving and he pops in this rap music and I just looked at him like i'm gonna have to listen to this

For the next four hours while he's driving and we started talking about the music and he he had one of the most profound things

That I that really helped me to understand the whole music genre in a different light and he said to me

He's like because I asked him I said why why do you listen to to this? I mean to me at that time it sounded like just shouting

He said if you want theology in song today written contemporary

You're listening to rap music. He says everything else is love songs about my boyfriend jesus

And I went wow, like I mean, that was the reason I listened to hymns He had said the only way you're going to get the theology that you used to get in hymns

Is going to come out of rap music. It's not coming out of anything else and I was like There is a thing

I do have concerns with music itself because music is closer to the emotion And can influence you more than the mind so You can have people that turn off the thinking

Because of the emotion that can come through music and so you have to evaluate two things one the lyrics are they biblical?

The music is a biblical and I gotta be honest the Yes, the the style a genre of of music is a fast pace but it doesn't seem to be a sinful thing like there is styles like Metal music that that actually creates attention in the body

Where i've you know, I do a lot of street ministry in new york city and one of the things we will be Out there sharing the gospel

And later in the evening what's been happening more and more regularly is especially on the saturday nights

This is a bunch of guys But to understand it folks You just get guys that because one person will just start off either someone throws something out as a topic or We are someone just starts and must be punished as long as it's like a competition you see

Since we have sinned against an infinite holy god what they're going to deserve Punishment and they take whatever justification

And they go this is the one time it actually declares the law breaker how much of an art righteous rap music has become

Yeah, it's been said and there's a lot of don't think of it that way. I mean look i'm of a different generation I'd never grew up listening to it.

So to me it took god sees me listening This isn't what I expected lived the life.

We couldn't live and died the death. We should have died And it takes it takes realizing that in jesus

You really can't requirements of the law a very paid message for our law breaking deep theology If we repent and believe in him god credits his righteousness to our count

Only then are we seen just if i'd been jesus This has been another growing moment with robert houghton for more information visit growthproject .org

So so let's let's talk about bars what is it you look for in in in your host and your guests,

I mean Uh, what do you look to achieve? and and also Okay, give folks a reason to listen

All right So well for one like if you're one of those folks who are looking for a new artist to listen to for new music

You know because i'm one of those folks like that sometimes man Like i'm I got I love the artists that I listen to but I just sometimes

I just crave to hear somebody new somebody different Uh with a different tone vocal time or all that. Uh, that's one of the things that bars was about it was about Uh making people aware of other christian artists who are solid in theology at least at least

I try to keep people solid in theology And i'm going to be all the way 100 on this one all the way honest on this

There's been some guys who I brought on who I thought was legit at first and then After a while,

I kind of see them like on social media and the way they interact It's some of the things that come out of their mouth and i'm kind of just like uh

You know, but it's like it's kind of a little too late now, but you know, um again at the same time, you know

It's like you're trying not to be um, you know, you're not trying to try not to be unfair but like You know, it's it's like they like I just put a stamp of approval on you and you're kind of you know you're kind of uh, just you're acting a little heathenistic right now, you're like The problem with thinking that you put a stamp of approval on someone is we really

I knew one pastor He basically didn't read any commentaries from living people because he's like Guys because they're not gonna they're not gonna disappoint me

You know, right Yeah, he's like there's no room for them to change right now.

I mean look we're all growing and for many of us. We're They're they're genuine believers.

We're gonna grow closer to christ, but there are people that profess christ That put on a good face put on good front and they may even be deceived themselves

I mean, that's what matthew 21 23 would say right many come to lord and he's To christ in that final judgment many will come to me in that day and say lord lord

Haven't we done many great things in your name cast out demons healed the sick and I will declare to you I never knew you depart from you practice lawlessness.

I mean there are people that are deceived into thinking they are believers and They are you know, i'm working on i'm preaching through the book of jude and you look at jude and it's like he provides a

Clear things of what to look for in false teachers and they're they're people who they put up that good spiritual front

But you start to see over time. It's about self. They're looking to serve themselves.

They want everyone else to serve them It really is son that they're deceived and deceiving and It's something that you may bring someone on and especially when they're in an industry like the music industry

There's a lot of temptations there and when people start to get big they they get dragged into some of that And yeah, you know we see that quite a bit lately.

Um, quite a bit man, there's been Um this year I haven't heard it so much but like I don't like I feel like last year it just seems like like a lot of guys who had established themselves as Christian artists or either fallen away from the christian genre so to speak

Um, you know like they just like me, you know, we're not going to make exclusively christian music anymore or you know let's talk about that for a minute because I may maybe you and I might have some differing issues on that but so do you do you think that a

Christian who is also a music artist That everything they do must be uh, either christian based spiritual based or gospel like No, I I don't and at one point

I kind of did Um, but I mostly did for for for these particular artists mostly because of the simple fact is that's how they built their fan base

You know, um, you know, I mean it's like it's like they built a fan base that way and then all of a sudden That's like now that you like kind of big and kind of out there.

It's like hey, you know I don't want to do christian music anymore. Hey back when you were underground and people barely knew who you were you were like man i'm gonna go hard in the paint and then like your issue would be more if they're if they you if they're using the the base

A christian base to build a platform and then they they take that platform to expand it so they can be bigger

You'd have a problem with them doing it doing it to do non Specifically christian songs in other words doing a secular song.

That's not unbiblical But if they're doing to to build a platform you'd have an issue but but if they're but you wouldn't have an issue with someone that's just Doing a song that may not have to be specifically about christ, but yeah, no not not at all because I don't

I don't think yeah I don't think that it's totally wicked to sing like a love like for example, I don't listen to just christian music

I listen to I think there are some good songs out there some good love songs Or or just good storytelling songs that are out there that aren't necessarily

Theologically driven, you know, I mean, I feel you know, um, of course like I said me personally I can't listen to anything that that that that you know praises demonism or blasphemes god or anything like that But not every song that's not christian does that you know, um, some songs are just beautiful like I love old school r &b um, you know saying or just you know,

I Really? I like a lot of rock and roll songs mostly for like their melodies and so forth Like I don't think that there's anything wrong with those types of music

My issue has always been like how somebody comes out and they make this declaration

Of what kind of artist they're going to be And then when they get up into the spotlight all of a sudden now you want to be a different artist now mind you

I get It people do change people do grow And I think a lot of us had a hard time accepting that in a sense and you know at this point

And I and i've listened to some of the stuff and you know, and i'm like, you know what? Like honestly, it's safe music.

My children can listen to it. I don't have to worry about them being tainted I don't feel like it's stepped away from Um, you know that that puts them in a place to where it draws them from god or anything like that Um, but however, you know,

I think as christians We definitely want to be careful about the type of message that we send out there to the world

Because remember like we're in the world, but we're not of it So then it's like when I see you collaborating with an artist who blatantly blaspheming god

Then it's like okay. Well now like like what are you doing? Like I understand that you don't want to make exclusively gospel music

But like now you're walking hand in hand with somebody who takes god's name in vain

And and whose whole album was booty and sex, you know and all that stuff and it's like all but you want to It's like you're walking hand in hand with them, you know, and it looks like music still

Maybe secular. So let me give you a for example. We have we're traveling. We're working on a book publishing company and We have our editor.

She does music on the side Now her album she when I said when I was like, oh, let me let me listen to your album

She actually was like well, you know, she's him and hon. What's up? And she's like I just wanted you to realize that it's a secular album like she's a christian

She's doing songs though that are not specifically about christ and she has so many christians that give her a hard time

And the thing is is that the music's not unbiblical. It's not like you're saying it's not glorifying demons or things like that Right, right, right, but she's like, you know, does every song need to be?

About christ, I say the same with movies. I mean, you know, I think one of the things as Christians in in the arts we should be producing good family -friendly

Movies that are they don't have to be necessarily everything is about like every movie must be the gospel um

But it should be things where people can enjoy entertainment and It not be corny like you mentioned and you know

Yeah, most definitely and I think that's where I I wholeheartedly agree with that again

I still think I mean, I still think definitely that it definitely needs to be done in wisdom and carefully

But at the same time, you know, it doesn't have to be exclusively gospel me as an artist I'm, i'm an exclusive gospel.

Um, I I choose to be that way for the simple purposes that um, I I choose to be that way because I I struggle with like I struggle with pride.

I I I You mean you're like every other human being Okay, just checking.

Yeah Yeah, you know honestly like when I felt I mean the people who tell me they don't struggle with pride are the ones i'm concerned about Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I'm i'm done together. I got it together. I'm i'm not prideful at all That's like i'll say you know for for guys that are sinless perfectionists he's like Give me give me five minutes with them.

I'll prove they're sinners Yeah Yeah five minutes

That's all I need maybe less. Yeah, you know, I but I mean like because of that it's like that, you know,

I Honestly, I just want to keep my focus on christ Like I I set out as a preacher with the mission of getting people of of of uh, basically leading people back to the scripture

You know, so to speak like just preaching the word showing them how like this word that so many people from the pulpit neglect

It's actually it's beyond fascinating and beyond fulfilling and and beyond a blessing, you know, and so It's like well if i'm gonna put if i'm gonna do music

It's like I have to keep it there because it it helps me to recognize who it is

That is the center of my being and so forth and not only that I hope to be able to teach somebody through or at least edify them, you know

Edify them through what i'm saying and doing now I don't knock the next person who chooses not to do that because like i've listened to some of these things like for example

I've listened to uh, um, andy minios, uh out latest album the sword which by the way a lot of christian things a lot of christian, uh,

I mean he in in So many ways if you listen to the whole thing, you can piece together the gospel message in it

Um, but however he deals with he feels he just he's just dealing with some issues and uh certain certain stuff

Uh, like for example, like he'll say, um, like like, you know, he'll talk about how like when people are talking about him

It's like it's none of his business now mind you. I don't think it's a horrible album Some other folks might be like yo, we like older andy minio better but me personally

Um, i'm gonna ask one of those albums that when i'm at work because I um, by the way I'm a registrar.

I work at a group home Uh for teenage at -risk teenage years, uh you and sometimes I have to sit in sub a classroom

Um and as they're working on their work I can play music And rather than playing like a lot of the junk that they're listening to, you know

I can play I can put on and I feel very safe putting on andy minio's album and they actually love it You know and they hear stuff and like one of the last things you're hearing on the album is how jesus takes away sin

You know And and and and they get a kick out of it now It's not I wouldn't say it's exclusive It's not exclusive gospel content and there's plenty of a couple of times where andy says some stuff that pretty much reveals um his it's um

Him being a human, you know, his emotions towards certain people and stuff like that, but it's nothing wicked

It's not I don't think it's demonic or any of that nature Well, you also bring out a different aspect of it and that is and that's what a lot of people forget about that Music is a form of teaching, you know, one of the things people don't think about I tell this a lot because People don't think about it.

But where do we get most of our theology if you if you study almost any systematic theology

The book that's going to be quoted more almost more than any other is psalms. Why?

Why would they what why would you have be quoting the psalms so much? Because in a in a culture that wasn't always literate, but they they memorized word for word

They memorized audibly music was one of the ways of doing that most of the teaching that we have about god from god comes from Music they would memorize their theology in song that's that's actually the thing that's

Really did impress me with rap music as I and I still like I said, i'm not a music guy

I just it's just Not my style But yeah, i've been very impressed with what i've heard from a lot of different artists because it really that's what

I See happening with a lot of this genre. It is It is packing theology into a means of training through memorization

And much of it is memorizing good theology. Now, is there guys doing some bad theology? Of course there is and like yeah, you know, so you you got to know what you're who your teacher is

You got to know what he's being taught That's true. That is true. I'm glad you said that because um, that's when

I have a lot of again growing up in a black church, you know, we grew up on like artists like richard smallwood or um, or uh, uh, donny mcclurkin and kirk franklin and so, you know, uh, mary mary's and so forth and um,

Let's see. Shirley caesar. I mean like there's different there's different artists and like it's crazy because like as As god has blessed me to understand

Uh sound theology and so forth I go back and I listen to a lot of the songs that I grew up hearing and some of them

I just can't stand anymore because of because of the poor theology that comes from me like Really like one of the one of the one of the one of the ones that I hate the most and it's one of the most common songs on um in a baptist church

Jesus is on the main line And and the reason why I hate that because it's jesus is on the main line call him up and tell him what you want

You know and that to me hearing that it sounds like tell jesus your will, you know Forget his will tell him what you won't call him up.

Tell him what you want You just call him up. Tell him what you like. I hate that song now Like I I can't like I cannot stand it

It's not like some oh like a whole prosperity gospel song and when you listen to a lot of what's hot today um, especially again as and I I know i'm saying like within a black church because that's what's familiar to me

Books and one website It's an emotional based song because they have an emotional

One of the most simple both I remember reading resources something in especially if you think charismatic magazine is somebody

And it was one of the most critical things i've thought of of being from my side from a fundamentals baptist position it but it it stung for a lot of folks if they thought about it because what this article said was basically the fundamentals attack the charismatic movement by being because of its emotionalism and yet so many of those churches use music sung by charismatics for charismatics and it was like Wow, you know they were pointing out that like eight percent of all the music that's sung in churches is written by charismatics

And they're written with that emotionalism I think that's it's a very telling thing.

Let me ask you so You're from omaha.

Yeah, you know, there's a guy uh from that I You know, I know from the bars podcast network.

He actually I think the state was named after him Do you know do you know the one and only virgil walker they know they just call him omaha now and do that Yeah, I figure the whole state must be named after him, right?

Yeah. Yeah, we be that we call him vita That's my man right there. Yeah I would say

I came across him accidentally one day properly exegeting matthew 7 on youtube and coming to find out that he was like, oh snap you stay in omaha and and um back then

Um, he and I well actually, okay So back then he was a he was part of the abolitionist society of omaha

So he was sharing some things and I ended up sharing some things make a long story short I ended up connecting with him and uh, he and I along with some other some other brothers and sisters in christ

We used to go to the the abortion clinic and preach the gospel uh to people trying to go and get ready to go in to go and uh kill their babies um now

He's we both kind of all right, so i'm trying to think how i'm trying to make a long story short because I know the abolitionist uh

You got some crazies that has basically like a bad name to the to the abolitionist.

Yeah. Yeah It was a term that I can't that I started using Way back when um,

I started using the the argument against abortion when 180 came out If you if you know the movie 180 from living waters

Yeah, yeah came out. I used to use an argument about hitler With abortion and once that movie came out,

I knew everyone was going to just say. Oh, you're just right comfort Great comfort. So I want to think of something different And at the time

I was reading a book on the young man that many may know john brown.

He's was a guy who Really was instrumental in ending slavery, but he didn't do it in a good way.

I mean he was he was a professing believer But I mean he took things matters into his own hands in a bad way

And but he had good intentions And realistically he even though it cost him his life

He really is instrumental in in putting an end to it and I started to think about it. I went wait a minute You know you put these things together and this is the argument

I make at at abortion clinics when I go and It's the only time i've ever had the police called on me was

Because I made this argument and they really didn't like it, but I asked I actually try to make an argument for slavery

Okay. No, no Don't get upset with me folks The way the way I do is i'm i'm there there could be arguments that people can make for slavery being good

And so I try to do that on purpose why because I want The person because usually they have people that are listening from inside.

They can hear us This particular time there was a guard standing outside and He was african -american and I wanted him to hear me and I was making a case for slavery and he was getting upset with me

And I will keep making a case and ask them why it's wrong until they say one thing There's one thing they're always going to say that it is wrong to say you can own another

Person and once they say that my argument is done because they just caved in on abortion

Because once they say that it is wrong to say this is my property about another human being

I turn and I said to sir I said sir Then you explain this to me if you say ownership of another human being is wrong and it is wrong to say

This is my property. Then. How can you let these women come in and say this is my body?

And kill a human being not every slave was killed They lived some actually even you know, if you read uh, 12 years a slave he he says

You know solomon says in the first few years when he was a slave, he wouldn't have thought it so bad you know, so there were some men that weren't always as bad, but the thing is is that They didn't all get killed but every woman coming in here.

It's an issue of ownership. I own My body I own everything in my body and I have a right to kill another human being

Because it's my body it's an ownership issue. That's when the police got called on me with this gentleman and so yeah that that's where I started

I started arguing that way and then I guess some others came up and I I've If you know my history with with the folks over at AHA Um, they don't like me very much.

I I argue that they're a cult um You know, yeah, I mean it grew into that, you know, and and he's crazy

My father my father told me that you know when I started I said dad, you know Really? We should be pushing for abolition, which

I still believe that I still definitely believe that Abolition is far better than uh pro -life incrementalism

Um, you know, I mean so forth and that you know that basically we need to start treating uh abortion like what it is murder

Um, which like you know, like if I was to murder a pregnant woman they'd hit me with double homicide But yet if she was to take that baby inside and kill it if that baby dies by itself, it's not you know

I mean, but you know, but like, you know, I definitely um, i'm definitely all for uh the abolition of the abortion industry, but um

I think virgil and I both removed ourselves from charlatan because it's like folks who were in the name of abolition

Were doing just some crazy things that I could not agree with like I don't agree with protesting A church just because they're not doing exactly what you're doing to fight abortion

You know, um, i'm not i'm not with that, you know It tells you actually where their heart is when they you know, they come to shepherd's conference every year

And yeah, there was a g3 the other year. Yeah, and and and I know they don't like when i'm there

I mean, I actually it was really funny because What what we actually caught on tape with one of their guys saying?

To someone else saying hey listen One of their founders toby it was like, you know, toby said to keep rapaport away from him

Like oh he must be really afraid. So once once I overheard that I was like, oh no, no, no, no

You know, I would have been fine talking to some of the others, but if he's scared of me Okay, then you're gonna deal with me

Yeah, you know right? Yeah, but but the thing is, you know, I There is an issue.

I mean and and that's why I love what the ministry virgil does and I got to get him on I want to actually interview him Because the ministry he's doing out there is is

Needful And there's a lot of places where the private abortion clinics are closing down across this country because of the preaching of the gospel

And yeah, really if look if we defunded planned parenthood abortion probably wouldn't be an issue anymore. That's that's the reality because I mean

We said that I was gonna say like one of the things so like defunded planned parenthood is

I think Definitely a good thing. Um, but I've Often kind of been of the belief that like if we defund them, it's going to the funds are going to go elsewhere

Oh, yeah, that's how it seems to me. Yeah, you know Because because a corrupt government is still going to be corrupt

But but the thing is that the only thing really propping them up is they got the money.

Um, yeah, so um, because we're gonna we're gonna have to wrap this up we Yeah, yeah, this is a problem like I I kind of expect this when you and I talked on the phone the other the other time

I was like, okay This is going to be a fun show because I could just see I mean I have a whole list of of Things of other topics

I wanted to get into with you Um some stuff with social justice and and the gospel and stuff like that.

Okay, I tell you what I stubbed that up real quick The gospel is the solution when by me saying it doesn't mean just preach the gospel

What it means is is to go out preach the gospel teach people to observe all that Jesus christ has taught you

And love you god with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself because when you're doing those things

Guess what? You don't have these issues. Uh with with uh, these social issues and so forth and granted, you know

Because we live in a sinful world We're going to have sinful people who do sinful things like practice stuff like racism and so forth and the only answer to a situation like racism

It's not another march It's not more laws because if that stuff would have worked then we wouldn't have racism The solution to those things is the very solution to sin because that's exactly what it is

It's sin So you preach the gospel and you love your neighbor and you pray for your enemies just like christ taught us to do

And that's how you affect your community It's a it's an individual as a christian you affect your community by loving your neighbor through the and through the preaching of the gospel and the discipleship of those people with whom that you preach the gospel to and I mean

Maybe that's it. I mean, that's it. I mean the only thing like I just uh the last

The last podcast I did I brought the fact that you know, everyone's looking to be a victim You know, there's only one true victim in this world who his name was christ and he chose to be a victim for the salvation of you and I And and we turn and say say oh no, no, no, no, no, no,

I I got my my tribe I'm, sorry, but you know this world i'm passing through this is not my home heaven

Yeah, where i'm looking to spend eternity and i'm not gonna fight with people that i'm gonna spend eternity with over Stupid things

Like yeah, what's melanin you have in your skin or not? You know, it's like it doesn't matter

And mind you and and me saying that and not like like like because I agree with you and me saying that it's not saying

That I don't care when something wicked happens. I do care. Oh, yeah, I care whole I care wholeheartedly

My heart weeps for the families who have lost loved ones to acts of hate and acts of violence

What i'm saying is is that this is the issue that's bigger than how much melanin you have or don't have Well, this is the issue

Thing I can I prove that people that are the social justice warriors don't care about social justice all the time

Here's the simple ways of doing it one. They want to talk about Slavery in this country from from centuries ago, right?

And then we gotta correct that but here's the question Then why are you not up defending those who are who are slaves?

Just it with within my parents generation my people the jewish people were enslaved in Germany, how about you you deal with the fact that there were slaves in america that were the japanese during that same time?

Oh, we don't even talk about that. You really want social justice issue. Let's talk real social justice Let's talk about the fact the the hundreds of thousands of women that have been kidnapped

Or abducted forced into sexual slavery human trafficking trafficking today

And you don't hear today social justice warriors. They don't want to talk about that No, that that's that's not an issue to them

They want to talk writing wrongs hundreds of years ago from people who have been long dead But they don't want to talk about the things going on right now

You know why because many of them give into that help pay for that through their their pornography and other things

And some of it actually, you know participate in that All right So the reality is you want to say you're against social you want social justice you want to write wrongs?

Write the wrongs that are being done today With these women that are being kidnapped and forced into slavery

For for some guy's sexual fantasy, let's deal with that. Why don't they ever want to do that as an issue?

Sorry, i'll get off my hobby off No, I don't know. I totally understand man I honestly like I said like like all of the stuff that's happening

In this world, it's a result of the fall And the only way that you're going to counteract that is with the gospel.

It's the gospel. That's the power of god I I mean, you know, like I said, I I don't know what more you want that you think can happen for a person who who who

Is saturated with hate for another person. Well, what more can you say or do for that person? You want them to talk about it you want them to talk about how much they hate you that doesn't make sense to me

You know, um and granted again, it can I do want to say this Because because I like to always try to be fair and balanced

I think on both sides of the argument that there are people who are pushing extremes. Oh, yeah, you know

You know on both sides of the argument like there are some folks who are who are flat out deny that stuff is happening

That's like well. No, that's not true. There are some things that are happening I'll give you for instance.

I I went to a conference where I was asked to speak on uh witnessing to lgtbqm

Plus, you know with all the different letters Yeah, yeah

So I I had the the role to to say how do you witness to feel like this now? The first guy who got up he though everything he said he preached more of a political message than a biblical message it was more of a um

You know, I mean what he said was historically accurate and and there was good information the problem

I saw with it is the what ended up happening is Every there were several african americans that came in by the time

I got to speak every one of them left after the first message Because there wasn't the balance it really for people who you know granted this this guy was white i'm white, okay

But there's a lot of people that don't understand the experience Don't understand what people go through what people have struggled with and they make light of it now

Maybe i'm more sensitive to it because I grew up a generation after the holocaust. I grew up hearing about how my family

Members my ancestors people I was related to were being killed in in concentration camps um

So so I realized the the reality of it now I didn't go through that and I don't blame

I don't blame germans today In fact, my daughter's about to marry a german uh next this weekend and and and even worse her initials are going to be ss after she gets married like How's that for social justice

There is a balance that needs to be there and I think that you can deliver a truthful message but but it needs to be done

In a way that's with some understanding of where people are at because not everyone's at the same point and we can't make light of The struggle that others have that we can't understand and we shouldn't expect them to make light on ours and and they shouldn't

Because every one of us is different. But here's the thing and I think this is really the main thing you're trying to get to is

The the we're all the same we come to the same spot at the foot of the cross

We're going to eternity together and you know what when we're in eternity The issue of how much melanin you have or the lack of melanin that I have

Is not going to be an issue that's going to come up at all. No, you know Bodies won't care.

Yeah, we're just going to be glad that we're sitting at the feet of christ Sharing with him and talking with him.

So so talking about the the gospel. Let's I want to I want to wrap up with this I and I told you we're going to do this and it is our spiritual transition game

Okay, it's time now to start the Spiritual transition game

So for folks who may not know This is going to be where t is going to give me something to share the god to get from whatever he gives me

I got a transition from whatever he gives me To the gospel now we do this because most people think

I just I pray that god gives me an opportunity to share the gospel I knew someone that actually said this they they prayed when they got on a plane that that god would give them an opportunity

To share the gospel with the person next to them and the person next to them said. What are you reading? And he said a bible

And they said oh, what does it teach? And he didn't he didn't share the gospel. He said he actually got off and he was just like I I was waiting for a good opportunity.

It was like it sounds like you had one The reality is this we pray for opportunities, but you don't have to pray you practice this game.

You can make an opportunity I believe you can take any conversation With training with practice of just learning how to interact with people learning how to think about things take anything and and find a way to Turn and twist that into a story to make it about the gospel to where you can share it about the gospel

We're going to see how well I do t's going to t something up for me pun intended. Sorry.

Um He's he's going to t something up for me to try to transition to the gospel Okay, all right, let me see if I can do this, uh, hey man, when's the last time you painted a room

Well that depends if I if physically me painting it or having a friend of mine paint it that it could be different because I I actually did we we just had we just had recently, uh,

My my kids moved out of the house they've gone off they're out on their own now and As you know having kids right they can kind of be messy.

Yeah, and so Man, it was it was great to like say, you know, we're gonna paint the house.

So it's nice and clean and No joke, no joke. We painted not all the house.

We paint a friend of mine came in He's he's professional painting paints meant most of the rooms did like half my house

And I mean, what do you know? My daughter comes home. She's moving out of the house She's getting her stuff because she's moving up to boston and man just taking a box down the stairs

Sure enough right along the side of the stairs. There's this brown mark

Right and it's it's like, you know years ago I wouldn't mind because there's tons of Marks on the wall, but it just got painted

So we're you know now it's like that that desire to like we gotta clean this up We're gonna make it look good again, especially because we got a wedding this weekend and everyone's coming into town

So i'm gonna be painting. Um This weekend before actually before the weekend to kind of clean that up But the reality is we want things to look nice and clean, especially when others are coming in Even though we know that underneath it.

It's it's filthy It's you know, it took my daughter the wing board and moved in this house.

The previous owner painted this beautiful mural uh in one room, but in my daughter's room that mural

Well, it was all the disney female characters like bell and all that and and they and tinkerbell look evil

I mean my daughter should just have nightmares because of this and It it was this oil -based paint that it literally took

I think it was like six layers of kills kills is a a thing to to kind of put a primer

That's really thick so you can paint over it. It was like six layers of kills and then six or seven um layers

Of paint on top of it and it kept bleeding through And the thing that was so wild about that was here's this this painting

That just no matter how many layers we put over it to make it look clean It just kept bleeding through And we're trying to hide it and cover it up and it's bleeding through and the reality is

I I think that that really Points to some things about us, you know We want everything to look clean on the outside and yet There is something within us that bleeds through that even though we try to mask it from everybody

Everyone sees it everyone sees that we do things that are called sin We do things that are wrong and we try to mask it and hide it and cover it up yet in our own conscience

We know we do things That are wrong. It's actually called sin and the only standard we can have just to justify what is sin what isn't what's right?

What's wrong? Is you need an absolute standard that's not subjective but objective and that standard would be god himself because he created everything

And therefore morality is based on on his nature. So when we we know him

We know that we break his law. We violate his Commandments to us.

That's what causes that guilt that we feel and yet even though we have that guilt We know that there would be a consequence with that It bleeds through no matter how much we try to cover it up and there's going to be a judgment there

We're going to stand before god and all of it's going to be revealed all that paint that we paint over Try to mask something it's going to be stripped away and we're going to stand before god and it's going to be exposed everything

And we're going to have one of two things that's going to happen Either we're going to stand there exposed and we're going to be judged by god for all the works that we've done

Or we're going to have already have accepted before we died The work of one person god himself who came to earth and died on a cross as a payment for us

That because of the work he did we can be set free And so the question we have to ask ourselves this side of death

Is what do we do with jesus christ god almighty who died on a cross on our behalf? do we

Repent and receive what he did Or do we think that in our pride we can do it on our own and stand before god being exposed before all?

That's the question that we have so that's how I would go from painting the room To the gospel, dude, that's that's got to be the dopest thing i've ever heard

Crazy I didn't think it was going to pull this one off I was even real with you.

I was I was trying I tried to stop you. How you even heard? Was that a new one?

That was that was a new one. That was a new one and and you got to keep in mind t I i've been doing this my pastor trained me to do this back in the early

Uh, well actually the late late 80s And i've been doing this for going on almost 30 years

And so I practice that time we do this every week when we do our striving fraternity academy

Before we did the live show I do it every week and you can actually go into our youtube channel on striving fraternity youtube channel

And we we have a whole list of them and it's it's just it's practice. That's all it is, man

It is it's realistically to take it back to something we were talking about earlier It's no different than the guys that are freestyling on the streets

They're taking one thing and they're they're turning and twisting it to get it to where they want it to go

You can do that with practice. Wow Yeah Yeah, yeah, that was really good man

The person you're you're you're talking with They're they're going with the conversation they don't even

Recognize that you did a transition There was one guy who I had on And he was actually listening to figure out.

Okay. When did the transition happen? He he listens to the show So he was he goes, you know

I listen for when you make that transition because sometimes it's so subtle that I don't even pick up that you transitioned

And yeah, there's some times where I don't know where i'm gonna go with it You know, I started actually that one. I was gonna go

In a different direction at first with the I was going to go in the realm of being a whitewashed tomb that you know

In israel, they used to wash the tombs They they make them look all pretty on the outside for holidays and yet they're full of dead men's bones

Rotten and decaying things. That's where I was going to go to work. But Yeah, that that oil painted thing that I just keep bleeding through that sin just keep bleeding through I like that So, you know you're gonna go like that you're gonna go use that and that's the thing

This yeah Times I play this game and and things come up that remind me of something that we

We did in this game before and boom I use it because I remembered it from the past and then again

I have things where I have people that walk up to me at conferences and just throw something out of me and go You know artichoke hearts gospel go and i'm like, okay

Next time you see me at g3. That's what you're gonna be doing. You're gonna be walking up and Yeah Right, but like seat cushion gospel go, you know

See what happens Oh my goodness that I I like that man. I was that's pretty dope.

Uh, wow Well, you gotta start practicing now, bro. I'm just saying I won't i'm i'm i'm gonna try it on my kids as I go downstairs

I'm i'm so sincere It takes it takes a while at first I mean the first time my pastor

He literally threw a set of keys on the on the table and said go Start a spiritual conversation with that set of keys and i'm like, how do you do that?

He's like think about it. And so he goes Okay, i'm gonna give you one and then you're gonna think about it took me like like five minutes literally

I was sitting there trying to figure out How to do it and but practicing you get better, you know It's funny because you said like you preachers doing keys out on the table

Like there's a lot of preachers that I come up around like they would have ate that one up, you know Table the only thing that would have came out their mouth is uh prayer is the key in faith that locks the door, you know, and Somebody would have been like amen, you know

Well, hey brother It it was great having you on folks. I want to encourage you to be listening to You you can look for bar podcast

And bar stands for biblical and reformed And uh, you can listen to the bar spinners,

I think that drops on thursdays Correctly, correct. Yeah, typically. Yeah now mind you. Um, i've kind of been slowing down on shows just because of family things, you know

I think priority man as much as I love doing the show as much as I love making music Um, I gotta kick in my family first Uh, but when

I get chance to sort of slows it kind of shows me kind of coming a little bit slowly But like yes the bar podcast, uh dot com you can check it there.

You go on facebook There's the bar podcast page in which you put up the link. I did just we did just post the show the other night

Uh, where uh, it was just a genuine conversation. It really wasn't with an artist, but it was with another christian Uh who's uh, one of the admin or at least one of the participants of the reformed bars?

uh group, uh, which is you know, just a A community of people who listen to christian rap actually listen to rap period but we talk about music period in there.

But um, So there's that Um, definitely, uh, if I could say this I I also have a sermon audio

Uh, i've been working through the book of romans. Um Sermon audio just t space barlow saint matthew missionary baptist church

Uh, I definitely would love to hear feedback. So you can find me on facebook t demarius barlow

That's t space d e i m a r i s space barlow on facebook td barlow at uh

At td barlow twitter, which is t d e i b r l o w Um, I think the same thing on instagram.

So I mean I would love to connect with folks. Um soundcloud t barlow I just got a few songs on there

Uh, i've got some music dropping soon as soon as I get the mixing of stuff done But there is a single that's out there now called beautiful jewel.

Um, you know, listen, you know If you guys are into the christian rap thing, go ahead and listen to that. Uh, beautiful jewel t barlow soundcloud um, yeah,

I think that's I'll be dropping a link to your sermon audio on there For folks that want to go go back

Binge on that go back to his you know to chapter one. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I definitely holler at me if you feel like i'm doctionally off about something because I desire to be right

Okay Also holler out at him if you like what you're hearing because the reality is we often only hear the criticism

And we don't get to hear when you know, and i'll say this as we close folks You know drop some some reviews in the itunes for the bar podcast bar spinners

Yeah, yeah for rap report. I mean Share them, you know the if you are encouraged by what you hear on these podcasts

Realize that for most of us. I mean I am i'm right now not even getting a chance to look at t's face He can't look at mine, which he thinks is a good thing and so Reality is we don't get to hear from you folks unless you speak up and let us know

We usually only get to hear the criticism I mean i'm guilty of this myself sometimes where I hear something

I disagree with i'll send a brother a message say hey You know, I disagree with this just trying to think about sometimes it works out.

Well, we get good conversation, but You know what? We need encouragement, too Um, yeah, so drop us some reviews.

Let us know what you think because the reality I know so many podcasters say this t but the reality

Uh, the reviews don't help you get more listens Okay, it really doesn't it doesn't get you up on apples, you know

Unless you're getting like a ton of reviews in a single short period of time That's the only way you get into news and noteworthy

From reviews the reality is the reviews help the podcaster to go. Wow. People are listening people are enjoying it

It it is encouraging to us. So drop us some reviews subscribe to them share to them

Because that that helps us know that you're you're sharing the love you appreciate what we're doing We're spending time to help you to to give you information

Take that and help others. That's the greatest encouragement. You can give us you agree with that I totally agree with that.

I totally agree. All right Well folks, I encourage you to check out some of the the podcast mentioned

Uh, I I do listen to the bar podcast network Um, you know, it is filled and and they have some others that aren't on the one rss feed so go to the website and check out all of their

Podcasts that they got because they have more than just the ones on the one rss feed the bars podcast

So bar podcast you have the you have the bar podcast with duane atkinson You you have t barlow's on there with the spinners

But then you have guys that are part of their network, which is going to be uh pastors discussion You you also have uh, the the women's one that I haven't uh,

I haven't listened to that. That's somewhat new Um, I forget the name of that one though calisto,

I think it is It's like it's like kaleoscope or something like that I might be saying it wrong because I never heard it.

I never heard it pronounced I've only read it and so so I feel like I feel like I might be butchering the name but check boy

Listen hey, we're gonna blame duane anyway, right? It's all his fault. Yeah. Okay As long as we can agree with that.

It's duane's fault. Yeah. All right good I mean got it on record. All right, we got our everything's duane's fault.

Yeah, i'm good with that. I'm good with that, too For more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church go to starboard eternity .org