NT Manuscripts and Romans 9

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James White.

Opening Remarks, Coughing, and Textual Criticism Setup

And good afternoon, welcome to the dividing line Thursday afternoon. Got a little not scratchy throat. I'm just been coughing all day but It's you know Not too bad and if it's like it's been over the past 22 months It won't get really really bad and that's because I found the magic stuff that allows you to fly in airplanes.

And I get sick all the time. What. It's probably allergies, you know, not everything's blooming around here. It's dusty. No, there's no snow and there's no ice on the road.

No, in fact the weeds started growing all over the place in the yard while I was saying that's my point. How can I do that in January? That's not fair. When do you ever get to not we have our two weeks of winter?

We did have our two weeks of winter and it's back to spring so Anyhow, so I will be using this cough thing right here. It's now like see how it works it that way I can cover over the coughs and it's called a cough drop.

I sort of I've always thought that was a rather Funny way to name something. But anyway Yes, I have magic stuff and it really does has helped me a lot. And basically I still I this is the fifth time so I started taking this stuff called epic or and This fifth time I've felt something I've started a little sick, but it never gets full-blown.

So Lord alone will be fine again tomorrow. It's normally about 24 hours. So that's right. That's great. That's wonderful. Anyway, lots of stuff to do today. Don't know why I'm wasting time. Then I need to talk a little bit more slowly than normal or I'll start coughing all over by and y 'all get sick.

I wanted to. I was playing with Bible works 8 last night and I I discovered a few interesting things while I was doing that I have used the figure 138 ,162 words for the critical text of the Greek New Testament According to Bible works is one hundred thirty thousand and twenty.

So I'm gonna go with that because that way I can compare apples to oranges when I compare the various Greek New Testaments. I have mentioned the fact that That when you look at a Greek New Testament when you look at the critical text Which is any 27 UBS for when you look at the Westcott Hort text from 1881 when you look at Tischendorf's text When you look at Stephanus when you look at the TR.

You're talking about a printed Greek text you're talking about a text that is actually made up by an individual who is collating other manuscripts and He is putting together a collection and he has to choose to managers people need to understand.

We're going to talk about this a little bit later. I Once again, I've been reading some Reformed folks and it's a little bit scary sometimes to see Reformed folks using Argumentation that is normally used against us bad circular types of argumentation to promote a particular perspective.

And and they don't seem to understand the history of what's called the TR. They just do not understand that it is a A Greek text that was created Through the very same mechanism just not as thoroughly done and not nearly as many manuscripts to deal with.

But it's still a Collection that men put together. It's not some it doesn't glow in the dark. It you know, no one's found the TR at In a burial site outside Jerusalem with the Apostles saying, you know each one signing off.

This is it. This is it I'm sorry that that's a you know, not what happened and When Erasmus produced the first edition of what became known as the TR those line of Greek texts up until the point where the Elsevier brothers called it the TR and I'm not sure how in an advertising blurb that's supposed to somehow represent the mature decision of the church, but anyway It went through a process Erasmus had Differences is manuscripts.

There are errors in the TR. That's just a fact folks I mean if you can't deal with facts, then there there's you know, you got a problem at that point, but although each one of these printed texts has a certain number of words in it and Obviously when you're looking at the modern critical text and it gives you the variance and you can look at the variance.

You can see that frequently. The variance in the manuscript in the manuscripts that is not put into the text is Longer than the one that is one of the standard Rules of text criticism is the shorter reading is to be preferred why because there was a tendency especially in older manuscripts to expand rather than to contract if There isn't any reason why home I tell you time or something else comes in to where something would have been accidentally omitted.

Then What you see is the what I've described as the expansion of piety where you have Someone who you know that the original text says Jesus and later text will say the Lord Jesus or if it says Lord Jesus later text the Lord Jesus Christ and It just keeps expanding and so the later Byzantine texts are longer than The for example the Alexandrian text for reasons like that.

Anyway Let's also do the fact that later manuscripts would frequently conflate readings where if you have two manuscripts in front of you They have similar readings to one another why just put both of them together that way you've got everything there and so they're longer so I was playing with Bible works finally getting right back around my point and Was looking at the relative numbers of words in the text you can do that with Bible works.

It has a point. Oh, I haven't had time to figure out all the new stuff yet I haven't had time to play with the new features stuff yet but I was just Letting it do its thing. It has a whole statistics area that I think is new at least the graphical statistics stuff I know by work seven had some of that but this seemed to have more options in it than we had before anyway, I looked at five printed texts and I looked at Tischendorf Westcott Hort the critical text Stefanos and a TR here are the numbers here the numbers.

Tischendorf is the shortest at a hundred and thirty seven thousand five hundred and forty-eight words one hundred thirty seven thousand five four eight Tischendorf Westcott and Hort one hundred thirty seven thousand six hundred eighty ones there's Seventy eighty word difference there Critical text one hundred thirty eight thousand twenty.

That would be your nasty all in UBS for what's used generally today the Stefanos text 1550 One hundred forty thousand seven hundred and twenty and the TR the longest at one hundred forty thousand seven hundred and forty five so if we Look at this With the modern critical text of the baseline and then compare each one to that Tischendorf is ninety nine point six five percent.

Westcott Hort 99 .75 Stefanos 101 .95 and the TR 101 .97 remember I used an illustration in the debate Rob Bowman had actually Did part of it? I sort of expanded it, but Rob Bowman talked about how the issue is not having.

If we have a jigsaw puzzle, it's not like we have too few pieces. We have too many and that's what the later textual variants are. They're they're accretions. So Tischendorf 99 .65 Westcott Hort 99 .75 Stefanos 101 .95 and the TR 101 .95 if you make the TR is the baseline if you compare everything To the textus receptus then Tischendorf is ninety seven point seven three.

Percent of that Westcott Hort ninety seven point eight to the critical text ninety eight point zero six and Stefanos Ninety nine point nine eight. Now, what does all that have to do with almost anything?

Well part of what that has to do with is again this issue where we talk about the perceptions that people like Bart Ehrman and others produce when they talk about the text of the New Testament and when they give that bare figure more textual variance than there are words in the New Testament a Large number of our fellow citizens and remember they now get to talk to more people than we do in one sense.

You know, we don't get to go on NPR that does anyone listen NPR. So I guess somebody does I think most Bart Ehrman does? Yeah, that's true and Other people do too I just found that at least amongst our friends most people most people who actually do are afraid to admit that they do.

You've I can't understand what you're saying. I've never met anyone who listens to NPR. Not on purpose anyway.

Well, but I I really think that there are more people who do they're just a little ashamed to mention it. That's that's all I would be now if they listen to pull out your hair. America. Then they're likely to listen to NPR when they're bored.

You're not gonna come in there, okay, that's probably a good thing anyway. Our Fellow citizens hear these people talking and they think that when you pick up one manuscript it has a whole different storyline and Text that something else is like picking up two different books.

Or let's do it this way. There it seems that the textual critical scholars are really bad at coming up with names for books and I may be just as bad myself but Almost every book on you tested textual criticism is Called something along the lines of the text of the New Testament.

They don't come up with. I mean, how do you come up with really interesting topics or titles for something like that? And so I have a bunch of books called the text of New Testament and then it'll have a different subtitle.

But most people think that it'd be sort of like grabbing two of those books. They're on the same general topic, but once you open them up everything is different on every page and That's what people think is actually going on With the New Testament and it just simply isn't the case.

The the Range of agreement is. Is what? People got a number of interesting pictures of dr. Erman making funny faces. At my text when I was talking about the range of agreement between the two broadest point of the spectrum.

The Byzantine the Alexandria manuscripts and and this was one of those questions I wished I'd asked him but I I didn't because I figured we'd wander off into the bushes someplace if I did but if you took the most Alexandria manuscript and you take the most Byzantine manuscript and You Interpret an entire book of the Bible.

Let's say Romans. Let's say you take Romans take the most Byzantine manuscript Romans most Alexandrian manuscript Romans and you apply the exact same methodology of Interpretation to both will you come up with a different gospel?

The answer is no. And I'm so convinced of that I think I'm going to include in the book a section where I do exactly that not the entire book of Romans, obviously but take a representative sample pick a 15th century Byzantine manuscript fact what I can do probably is is take one of the manuscripts that that Erasmus used and Then we'll compare that to Vaticanus which Erasmus would like to have used.

I remind my TR friends of that and exegete a period of a Section of text see how different they are from one another and see if it how it would make any difference. That's that's what's got to be done.

Maybe that'll help to illustrate it and I got to find some way to include some of these graphs and charts and graphics that I've that I've produced for the The debate and presentations I do into the book.

So it's got to be there because we live in a very graphically oriented. In fact, you know what? We ought to see if we can whoever ends up publishing this and I've got some ideas we ought to include a DVD or a CD or at least CD in it with a with presentation.

With the with the. You know, we can put it if you just put in PDF everything reads PDF. I love how my Mac is just massively PDF oriented. That's how when I pro I saw that little shake of the head out there that little dismissive.

Oh, he said something about the Mac again. You know, they're like with the Mac. You've got that huge machine sitting there. It looks like a race car. It looks like something straight-up transformers.

I think eventually it's gonna be now that's out to come something. It's gonna shoot you but anyway That's we got to do because people need to see this stuff we live in a graphically oriented society. It's scary how many people.

Okay audience question here. We turn on the audience cameras. How many of you have read? 500 pages in the past six months. I know there are people who do that. But let's face it a lot of people have not.

And so you just go hmm, well you still gotta get this information out somehow so maybe that's the way to do it so anyway We'll think about doing it along those lines now. Next thing I wanted to address the 12 manuscripts actually 13.

In fact, you could probably make an argument for 14, but Since this has come up and I noticed that Some of the Muslims are jumping up and down and having a hissy fit to which I found So odd I gotta admit It's been encouraging to me over the past couple of months to be having some conversations with some Muslims where there is Respect and there's not the wide-eyed Jump on everything no matter how inconsistent it is grab anything type thing.

It's really nice and I really hope I really am hoping To have that debate announcement. I've mentioned you in the not-too-distant future still want to work toward that in but there's something else That's developed and I'm hoping to be able to mention that Pretty soon.

We continue to work on stuff because some people said what's your next debate don't have one scheduled right now in that unusual Did 13 last year? Obviously the urban one was big I'm trying to pursue some way of setting something up in in Australia for the trip in August when I'm down there And we're hoping Lord willing toward the end of the year somewhere between October November to go back to the UK as well and Probably have as many debates but at least one or two and make them big debates make them worthwhile In that sense, so we continue to do that.

But anyway the the manuscripts that we made reference to and That I did not have the list available to me I did I now realize that I had it in two separate programs on my computer. But since I had Taken it out of a book.

That was the first thought crossed my mind. I just didn't realize I have that same book electronically I'm still I'm sort of in that in-between Generation where the the generation younger than me. It's just gonna be natural to think of the electronic version first, but it This despite the fact I use a lot of electronic media now and books in electronic form It's still I still default to the paper stuff.

I'm old enough that you know, I Didn't have access that kind of stuff for until you know, anyways, I'm just more accustomed to using a library. So anyway That's why I was looking for it and I I didn't pull it up.

So I post them on the website a number of people on the on the blog a number of people sent them to Ermin. Is that some of those are third century? Couple things first of all when we talk about within a hundred years of the completion of the New Testament we're basically talking about the second century and Obviously if you are going to say well, but Galatians was written around 50.

So a hundred years has to be 150 and there's not 12 within range 150 duh. This isn't this actually that's what sort of caught me up about this. In fact most of his questions Really had nothing to do with actually establishing his position.

Everybody knows that when you look at the dating of manuscripts that you are given a range and That differing scholars will have a different bit a different range. And so often you you take what is essence a 50-year range?

And so When Dan Wallace and I was gonna cue this up and I didn't I apologize. But when if you'll listen to the Greer heard debate from March of 2008 when Dan Wallace mentioned 12 manuscripts than a century of the completion of the New Testament Bart Ehrman ever said a word.

He didn't he didn't object. He didn't even note it. It wasn't like he was even listening or he didn't care or it was a given if If he had challenged that I would have put all the manuscripts on the screen.

That's just if you if you look at my presentation if you download a little movie along with the mp3, you'll see that my entire presentation Anticipated his own and so I would provide anything where there is where I thought there was any kind of controversy or argumentation or anything like that.

I Documented it and gave you the references, but didn't think there was going to be an issue there. Anyway, I put them up on the on the on the blog I'd like to briefly discuss them and then move on to a Little another little area of discussion and that is how reformed folks are responding to the debate.

There was a review post on the Puritan board and it really catches my attention because as In even though these folks may not be King James only. The kind of argumentation that again, I keep encountering is so so filled with double standards.

You will use one set of standards to examine the modern text like the critical text. But then when it comes to TR, oh, we can't talk about where that came from. That's that's just what the Apostles passed down.

That's just all there is to it. Well, this is not the case. Well, that's what that's what the confession in 1 8 says. Well, is that really? What it says there and so I want to I want to I want to be consistent and To talk to my reformed brethren about this because some of you may not be aware of this, but there are a lot of reformed churches Presbyterian even reformed Baptist.

That I will never be allowed. I will never be invited to darken the door of. When I tell people this they get they look at me like, huh? Yeah, there are a lot of places That I would never be allowed in and it has nothing to do with my having to pay the baptism a few times because every Time I've done that I was challenged by the other side to do it.

But it has really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with my writing the King James only controversy. Which by the way the galleys of the second edition are sitting on my desk and I'm having to work on them lost an entire line of Hebrew trying To find it right now.

It's a typesetting process, but I need to be saying them back to them hopefully by Monday so that's what I'm trying to do and Working on that and so on so forth. So anyway, I want to get to that there's just a lot a lot of folks who won't have me in because of my views on textual critical issues and I'm a liberal see.

So we'll talk about that back to the manuscripts. There is no question about p52. We can leave that one the side that one is is universally accepted. The the next manuscript is actually three different papyri numbers because Most are convinced.

They all came from the same codex p4 p64 p67. Dated about 150 to 175. Robert put him at 200. Then a number of others have the second half one as early as the second half the first century. That's really early.

Bell Skeen and Turner around 200. Roke a plague who is I think that was. I think he was the one who published it was six seven sixty four one or two. Sixty Seven yeah second half the second century. P4 is provenance.

Definitely puts it in the second century and if they all are together. Then it really puts in the second century. Because it was actually used to line another book and since it was the Gospels and the book was a Christian book.

They wouldn't have used a currently in-use manuscript to do that. It would have had to been one that was already considered to be worn out and old. And so we pretty much know when that book was made and therefore that would that would give us the date in the second century.

So p4 p64 p67. That's the second of the manuscripts that we have in that second century. P32. It's put in the second century of a bell skeet. Kenyon P32 is one that actually I started to make reference to in response to Irwin's question.

It's from Titus. And then the fact I used a picture of p32 in the presentation now that I think about it. It wasn't identified, but it's just over on the side of the thing sort of decoration. P46 is. One of those that I'm sure Irwin is saying what's not that's third century.

Wilkin put it around 200. Kim the end of the first century. Mid 2nd century on comparison with with other relevant documents. P66 same as p52 according to hunger. Turner puts it as late as 200 to 225, but Cavallo and cider in the mid 2nd century for p66.

P75 Martin early on put in the early third yet. It's connected to papyri fluid 19 which is specifically dated 145 to 146. Cider put it in second third as well. The next is p77 late second century for Parsons very similar to the Oxyrhynchus papyri 1622 which is pre 148.

P87 very closely related to p46 so the same dating would apply there. P90 skeet put in the mid to late second century. P98 2nd century according to Wagner and Hagerdorn. P104 Thomas puts in late second comfort in the early second fact comfort.

It seems the view p104 is even earlier in p52 possibly before p52. P10 p108 2nd century Wilkin Roberts Kenyon put in the early third and p109 has the same dating information basically as p66. So all of these have been placed into that time period by relevant authorities and Textual scholars you can look.

Since this is available in both Bible works and in Librarian X the text earliest Greek manuscripts comfort and Barrett you can read the relevant argumentation. You can look at the various Oxyrhynchus manuscripts that are cited as being similar and you can go online and look at them for yourself if you want to.

But I hadn't made this list up. It's published in various works. It is in in fact This was the let's see do to do give you the exact name if you want to take a look at it. I'm sorry that exact page. And Here it is a manuscript state of the 2nd century page 23 of the introduction to that particular work which as I said is Widely available.

In fact, that's one of the works I gave to Shabir Ali and our debate in London is that particular volume? So take a look at those you will Be able to find that information there. I promised to give you that information and it is generally available to folks Where I take a phone call, but before we do that Just again if you happen to have access to the Puritan board if you want to look at the thread that I'm looking at this is a thread that was begun the 24th of January and It's in the translations and manuscripts section TRCT debate Which was split off in the white ermine debate thread and the fellow by name of Calvin and Hodges Posted this.

I believe that he has called the program before we've had some discussions and that's Robert Paul Weiland from up in Colorado Springs is the one who Started the thread. We'll be taking a look at that In just one moment if you want to look that up.

Caller Johnny on Historical Skepticism and Romans 9

But let's actually take a phone call here and let's talk with Johnny. Hey Johnny. How you doing? I'm doing great. How are you brother? I'm about 98 here. So we're doing all right.

I'm actually I was actually very excited. I actually wanted to go to that debate with you in Florida.

But unfortunately, I was not able to make it. But and since you're from California, that's on the other side of the comment.

Yes, and you know, I've obviously been. I do remember when I had mentioned to you airmen years ago and you at that time We're so busy with some other things and I was really really happy when you finally got around to dealing with there Head-on and finally debating him but some of the things that caught my attention and listening to I think I got to listen to maybe the first half of the debate today and One of the things that caught my eye is that I remember a few years ago when I was doing some research on the stuff that you did on the watchtower chronology and you know over the kings of Babylon in their 1914 stuff and I noticed that when you when you study the Babylonian history of the Kings you have to go to a historic historians and one of them, of course is Burroughs's.

But according to my understanding we don't even have a copies of roses is writing and so all we have are quotations From other historians that did have access to his writings when his writing was still there, right?

I'm just using Burroughs's as an example, but I mean if if we're using Bart Ehrman standard.

Do we know anything about history at all? No, I don't think we do. And in fact, that's one of the sections I played that's that's in essence what he said he he basically admitted That that is that is where you have to go.

And I I just don't see too many people In in the historical fields other than just ranked postmodernists who are very open in saying. Hey are our only Given is that there is no given there is no knowledge.

There is no way of really knowing anything. The rest of them are just fine using resources like that now Obviously when you have someone quoting someone who's quoting someone who's quoting someone. Once you develop a chain if you have people along that chain that have a reason for altering things then that begins to enter into stuff, but Especially in the area of study that you mentioned where you are.

You do have hard facts in the sense of rocks. You've got clay tablets That were chiseled, you know 4 ,000 years ago and Not passed down since then. They've been buried in the sand someplace. Then when you can use written material that was passed down in another format To try to put all that stuff together.

It does demonstrate that that kind of transmissional Line can still give you extremely valuable information. So yeah, and and you're talking there about stuff that wasn't Reproduced nearly as often as a New Testament text was and so it has a significantly Less full manuscript tradition, but yeah, it would seem to me that You know, one of the things I try to tell people is if you listen to this man speak and if you're not willing to embrace rank agnosticism concerning all of history then What really has he presented to you today other than his personal opinion I mean because he himself admits look most of the stuff he talks about isn't new.

Okay, great. It was stuff that we all knew about already great. But it's the conclusion he comes to and that conclusion is a radical form of agnosticism that he may very smugly say Yes, well many people join me in that Congratulations as I as I've pointed out many times and one of the reasons I made this reference in in the In the presentation itself was if I had been Around in around Oh You know the mid 1800s in Germany I would have been told that the assured results of scholarship tell me That I The Gospel of John was was a late second century production.

And that's what everybody believed in Germany, and I'm sure there was many a scholar who you know sniffed and You know put his nose up in the air at anybody who thought that John had anything to do with either the Apostle John Or John the Elder well, that's not the case anymore, so you know dr. Ehrman can can sip lattes with French textual critical scholars all he wants that doesn't change the The face of the actual discussion these needs to needs to be undertaken.

Well I would think that he would well he doesn't really Use that a lot. I Pointed out that he had in orthodox corruption scripture made reference to various early church fathers. He made reference the fact that origin Said the majority of the manuscripts in his day contained chorus.

They you instead of Karate they Hebrews 2 9 I pointed out that wasn't the case. That's not what origin actually said I really think he's misrepresented origin at that point, but anyway. He will make reference to it but patristic References are not really important in in most of the argumentation that he That he uses other than as sort of background information that he can use and it was it does illustrate something to me and that is that the in what one of the people asked him a question in the course of the Greer heard stuff, and they said I don't find a real consistent methodology in your argumentation.

Are you a reason to collect it? What are you and his response was well? That's because I decide what I think the text is and then I argue for it. And so he picks the information that he he wants to use and goes from there, so at least he's open about that.

But I'm not that didn't really come up as far as the his specific view of patristic information. And and how relevant that would be to his his perspective I That's a good question. Okay, very much. Okay.

Thanks. God bless. Bye. Bye. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We need to take a break don't we my goodness times going by and I haven't coughed all over a bit yet. That's probably a good thing.

We're gonna take our break and then take a Darren's call and your calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We'll be right back.

Sponsor Break and Ministry Appeals

How the pilgrims progress is not an easy way? It's a journey.

The Trinity is a basic teaching of the Christian faith. It defines God's essence and describes how he relates to us. James White's book the Forgotten Trinity is a concise understandable explanation of what the Trinity is and why it matters.

It refutes cultic distortions of God as well as showing how a grasp of the significant teaching leads to renewed worship and deeper understanding of what it means to be a Christian and Admit today's emphasis on the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.

The Forgotten Trinity is a balanced look at all three persons of the Trinity. Dr. John MacArthur senior pastor of Grace Community Church says James White's lucid presentation will help lay person and pastor alike.

Highly recommend it. You can order the Forgotten Trinity by going to our website at a omen org.

Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater.

I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin. Alpha Omega Ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses.

Man is sinful and God is holy. That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior. We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha and Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

Thank you. Under the guise of tolerance modern culture grants alternative lifestyle status to homosexuality. Even more disturbing some within the church attempt to revise and distort Christian teaching on this behavior in Their book.

The same-sex controversy. James White and Jeff Neal write for all who want to better understand the Bible's teaching on the subject. Explaining and defending the foundational Bible passages that deal with homosexuality including Genesis Leviticus and Romans.

Expanding on these scriptures they refute the revisionist arguments including the claim that Christians today need not adhere to the law in a straightforward and loving manner. They appeal to those caught up in a homosexual lifestyle to repent and to return to God's plan for his people.

The same-sex controversy defending and clarifying the Bible's message about homosexuality. Get your copy in the bookstore at a omin org.

William Lane Craig, Darren, and Romans 9

And welcome back to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon,. I was just trying to find this This particular post on my website, but unfortunately, I have been unable to locate it. It's in there someplace.

But anyway sometime over the past couple of months it was in December January, I don't know I Tried searching for it and for some reason it didn't pull it up, and I don't know why I Made reference to William Lane Craig and a Article that was found on his website.

It was an answer to a particular letter as I recall and I quoted from it and My recollection is that someone had cited it as Clear evidence of just how bad a person I am and all the rest that stuff which is Actually been sent to me probably about three times.

I would imagine in over the course of However long it had been posted there. So I think as soon as it had been posted someone had pointed out to me I had sort of put on the list to maybe deal with it someday and just never really got around to actually doing it and So anyway, my understanding is that our next caller is the the atheist who wrote to dr. Craig is this Darren hi Darren?

Hi, James. How are you? I'm doing just fine. How are you?

I'm okay. I'm a little bit nervous is the first time I've ever been on a call-in radio program. So you'll have to forgive me if I'm a bit jittery, but okay. Yeah, I'm in fact the person in question. Alrighty, so what can we do for you today?

Well, I wanted to point out first of all, I did not and if it seemed that way when I I Wrote the question. I did not mean any disrespect towards you as as a person. I really did not wish to do that at all.

And but but most of all I've met Bill Craig in person. He's a good friend of mine a very kind person and he at that at the same time. He is not at all receptive of my position. He's receptive of me and my general attitude.

But he is not receptive at all of my beliefs. He actually put me over the grill about them when I met him at the ETS conference in Providence so he Your differences with him over Molin ism are Kind of beside the point here at the position that I'm Seriously exploring and really haven't thought out consistently yet, but as far as the actual.

The position he's taken on atheism. There's other Q &A's there there's why I remember one from another atheist that he ended up grilling on on the spot for it was a list of questions about the resurrection or something and it was pretty obvious that the atheist is just there to sound off and and Dr. Craig made that quiet appearance that he saw that so.