Matt Slick Interviews Mormons, Manti, 2012

Mormon View of God and Salvation

Hey, is anybody interested in doing an interview on the Mormon view of God, the Mormon view of salvation? Sure. Okay, you're all right. You're a Mormon? Yes. Okay. Are you a Mormon? I am a Mormon, yes.

All right. Okay. So just... Turn off the camera. No, it's okay. That's all right. So what's the Mormon view of God?

We believe that God is our loving Heavenly Father.

Okay. And I know something about Mormonism, so let me kind of ask some questions. Okay. So you believe he was a man on another world? A man on another world? He used to be a man, right? No, he is a man.

Okay, he's a man. About six feet tall. You're about 6 '2", I guess. Me? Yeah, you're about 6 '1". Or God? No, God's about six feet tall. I'm six feet. You're about, you know. How do you know that? Because I read it someplace in Mormonism.

I've got to put my mic like this. Okay. It's okay. So there's three gods. The Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's three gods, right? Yes. That's right. Yes. Okay, so what's the Mormon view of salvation?

What do you have to do in order to get your sins forgiven?

We need to believe. We need to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. Okay. Okay, and come unto Him. And do you have to keep the commandments? To be saved?

To have your sins forgiven. To have your sins forgiven. To have your sins forgiven, you need to repent. Okay, so you've got to repent. What about 2 Nephi 25 -23 that says that you've been saved by grace through faith after all you can do?

What about that? We are saved by grace. We believe that. Yeah, resurrection. And we believe in the resurrection. Now Moroni 10 -32 says, if you deny yourself of all ungodliness, then is God's grace sufficient for you?

What do you think of that verse? I think that is true. It's true? Yes. Okay, now here's a tough question. You ready? What's your name anyway? My name's Sam. What's your name? Matt. Okay, Sam. So have you denied yourself of all ungodliness?

Nope. Well then, the verse says, if you've denied yourself of all ungodliness, then is His grace sufficient? So if you haven't, then it's not sufficient. Let's see. Moroni 10 -32.

Okay. You going to look it up? Yeah, let's look it up. Moroni 10 -32. Okay. So, yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness. And if you shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your heart, might, mind, and strength, then is His grace sufficient for you, that by His grace you may be perfect in Christ.

Yep. Okay, so have you denied yourself of all ungodliness? Not yet. Yeah. So then, logically speaking, then the grace isn't going to work because you've got to be denied.

No, no, no, no. What it says is, what the scripture is saying, come unto Christ, it's an invite, it says, come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and if you shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your heart, might, mind, and strength, then is His grace sufficient for you.

So you have to deny yourself of... Not that, that by His grace, that by the grace of God, that by His grace you may be perfect in Christ. Okay, so the key word there is in Christ, without Christ we can't do anything.

Right. So you have to deny yourself of all ungodliness, and love Him with all your... That's what it says.

In Christ, that you got it from the best place that He translated it. You think so?

No, I know so. Okay, I've got a question for you then, let's see. In 1 Timothy 6 .16, it's talking of God, and I can read the Greek, okay, and it says, I've translated it from the Greek, it actually says that the Father, speaking of God the Father, dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen, nor can see.

Now it says no man has seen, nor can see Him, in the Old Testament God is seen, it's the pre-incarnate Christ, Jesus says in John 6 .46, no man has seen the Father, Paul says no man can see the Father, He dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen, nor can see.

How is it possible that Joseph Smith saw the Father? Well, didn't Moses see God the Father? No, Moses saw the pre-incarnate Christ, nope, nope.

It says in the Bible that Moses spoke to God face to face.

Yes, that's Exodus 33, that's Exodus 33 .11, the Bible says no man has seen the Father at any time, okay, so it couldn't have been the Father, it was the pre-incarnate Jesus that they were seeing. Wait, wait, wait, let me see that, 1 Timothy what?

1 Timothy 6 .16. Okay, 6 .16.

The Father cannot be seen, whenever the God is seen in the Old Testament, it's the pre-incarnate Christ. I know the verses, Genesis 17 .1, 18 .1, Exodus 24 .9 -11, etc., it's always a pre-incarnate Christ.

Nobody is worthy to see. Absolutely nobody is worthy to see God. You think you're worthy to see God? Not me. Okay, I don't believe it, I'm not. No, not me. I do, yes I do. Why are you worthy? I believe that if, you know what, if I follow the admonitions of Christ, you know what, in God, all things are possible, and that's your problem, you don't believe, you don't believe that anything is possible.

God cannot sin, I don't believe God can do that. He cannot. So you said anything. But you know what, the plain and simple fact is, you limit God. I do? How? From just the very things that you... Well wait a minute, isn't your God learning?

You know what, here it comes down to a very simple thing. You believe that we can't see God, or we can't see Christ. Well the Bible says you can't see the Father. But what you've got to also understand is we also know that through the translation over the many years, that there were many things that, through just the simple translations, were taken out of it.

How do you know that? We have proof of it. Where's the proof? You take the Hebrew, the Hebrew and the Greek version of the Bible, and the Old Testament and the New Testament, and we know specifically that there has been translations that have not been properly translated.

I actually am a Christian apologist, I study this very issue, but for over 30 years, you're not quite accurate. So I've done it for 25 years, and I'll tell you right now, you're wrong. Okay, what's the Greek translation of the Hebrew called?

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You would know that's a basic thing. But that's okay. It's called the Septuagint. The plain and simple fact is, is that all you guys stand out here, and you limit the fact that, number one, you don't believe you can see God.

No. We can't see the Father. No. God the Father. Yeah, the Bible says he cannot be seen. That's the sad thing. You don't believe what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 6 .16? You know what? Through the translations, just like I told you.

There are no textual variants in that. I can read the Greek. I've translated it from the Greek into the English. I've had four and a half years of it. Where did you get it?

Where did you get it? Wait, wait, wait, wait. One at a time. One at a time. What? Where did you get the Greek translation?

The Nestle-Allen Greek New Testament, which is all of the historical documents and the 5 ,500 supporting Greek manuscripts assembled in one basic book with all the textual apparatus is called historicity, and that's what it is.

You can read all the textual variants that exist in all the manuscripts. Let me ask you. You're calling me a pig? Oh, that's rude. Let me ask you one last time. At the Council of Nicaea, they decided what the Trinity was going to be, because nobody at that time...

Did they say it was three gods? You know what? They did not. That's what you guys say. They said that there was God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one. One being. One being. You guys say there's many gods.

You know what? Our Heavenly Father... Is a God. ...Jesus Christ... Another God. ...and the Holy Ghost... Another God. ...are three separate beings. Three separate gods. And there's a mother goddess. There's three separate...

No, no. Three separate gods. You know what? Don't change the subject, because we're talking about the Council of Nicaea. That's what Joseph Smith said. What do you guys think of that quote, that he boasted he did more than Jesus to keep a church together?

This is who you guys are following. What do you think of the quote? He didn't say that. History of the Church, volume six, page 408 and 409. That's what he said.

And shortly after that, he was killed. Okay, Joseph Smith did a lot for the salvation of men. You want me to quote it to you again? But nobody did as much as Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith did.

Joseph Smith said this, in all these affidavits, in all these indictments, it is all of the devil, all corruption. You false swears, all hell boil over. You burning mountains roll down your lava, for I will come out on the top at last.

I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I've done more to keep a church together since the days of Adam. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus has ever done such a work as I. I boast that no one's run away from me yet.

Now, that's what he said. What do you think of that? He didn't say that. If he did, if he did, no, yes he did. Yes he did. If he did say that, what would you do? He didn't say that. If he did. I know he didn't say that.

I know for a fact he did. Oh, sorry. Here's the quote. Okay, my bad. Sorry about that. Here's the quote. Alright? This is from your own publication, History of the Church, volume six, page 408, 409. This is the quote that got me started 32 years ago, studying.

That very quote. So, studying Mormonism. Mormonism. Okay, and why do you worry about it? Look, look. I don't have my glasses on. You guys got to help me out. What word is it, Darcy? It's island. Underline?

Read it out loud. Shh. Go ahead and read it out loud. Listen, this is what I. This is your publication. That is your church. Uh-huh. This is what I know, okay? Well, wait. Why don't you read it? Hold on, hold on.

You said he didn't say it, and there it is. You closed the book. What are you afraid of? Oh, I'm just going to tell you what I know. That's all I can do. You know? Yeah, what I know. So, the facts mean nothing?

You said he didn't say it. I'm showing you he did. Thank you, Darcy. And then you closed the book, and you ignore what your prophet said. Why?

Listen, all I know is that Joseph Smith really was a prophet. I know he wasn't. He was called. I know he was not. I know that he was because of the Book of Mormon. Because he translated the Book of Mormon.

You said he didn't say that.

I just showed you. And you saw it, and you refused to read it out loud. Why is that? I'm just telling you what I know. Okay, so you know Joseph Smith said that now.

I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know he was not.

The Law, the Prophets, and the End of Prophecy

Jesus says the law and the prophets are entailed. John, Luke 16, 16. No more prophets after John the Baptist. You don't understand the scriptures, man. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I know there's only one God in all existence.

There's not many gods. Me too. No, you believe there's many gods. You have the potential of becoming a god, right?

We all have the potential of becoming like our Heavenly Father. No, I don't.

I can't become a god. Because God says there's no gods created after him. Isaiah 43 .10, 44 .6, 44 .8.

Well, that's good that you know your Bible well. So, what I would like to invite you to do is to pray about the Book of Mormon. Well, doesn't...

It's the only way you can... I'm supposed to pray about it to see if it's not true, right? What's that? Yeah. Okay, so... No, it says to see if it's not true. That's what it says. Pray and ask God if these things are not true.

Did you do that? Yep. So, is it not true? No, it's true. Then you didn't pray according to what the scripture said in Moroni 10 .4? No, I didn't. Pray to see if these things are not true. Did you do that?

Yeah, I prayed. God, these things are not true. He goes, yeah, that's right. They're not true. Really? So, who is God to you? That was interesting. That was good. And I hope it was all on film. Is it still recording?

Praise God. All right.