Travel Report, Response to Steve Camp and then some KJVOnly Wackiness

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May 18, 2016

James returns from his trip to London to South Africa, back to London and then back home by way of Belfast whirlwind tour. After giving us an overview of the events he then turned his attention on present matters. First a reply to Steve Camp's criticism of debating Muslims from his Facebook page. Then a reply to Mike Licona's "calling out" for a debate with newbie Eric Lounsbery. Finally, James plays some clips from one of the wackiest King James Onlyists that we have seen. Rich

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00:33: Well greetings welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon it is good to be back
00:38: I am bedecked in my Irish rugby jersey given to me by the young men in Corain, Ireland and Had a lot of fun this trip, this is this is this is a great trip
00:58: Obviously the thing I love about it most is I never even got a sniffle I mean normally
01:04: I get something And I normally can fight it off pretty well But I mean just just think of how many hours
01:12: Phoenix Heathrow Heathrow Johannesburg Johannesburg Cape Town Cape Town Johannesburg Johannesburg Heathrow Heathrow Belfast Belfast Heathrow Heathrow Phoenix And there were dry there's lengthy drives and vehicles like from Johannesburg to Potsdam and back to Johannesburg and and cold lanes an hour outside of Belfast so you had you know two hours there in vehicles with people lots of eating out at restaurants lots of time in airports and stuff like that and yet somehow a
01:48: I survived all of that so definitely a blessing in in that matter and Just just before we get the important stuff
01:59: Got a chance. I you know if you don't follow me on Facebook You miss at least cool pictures at least really great pictures of Clementine.
02:06: There was I When I was in the airport in Belfast City Airport They had these little dresses
02:15: And they had this little sheep, or I think it was a little bowtie and little greens as Ireland and I I What am
02:25: I supposed to do? I can't I can't resist that you know so I got that and I got this little baby thing for for January and Somehow managed to get that that carry -on which is supposed to be seven kilograms max
02:39: Not Even close I actually weighed it and it was like 16
02:48: Like yep, nope thankfully didn't check but Especially going international.
02:53: I mean seven kilograms. It's almost nothing anyway Well, especially because I had this in it, but we'll get to that in a second but Put up some pictures
03:04: I got to I had hoped to get at least a little running in while I was gone But I was mentally prepared to just go nothing for two weeks and instead
03:15: Got to run along the seashore in Cape Town which was beautiful and very windy But Cape Town is you know it was really weird.
03:25: I gotta admit on the way from Heathrow here They're only the selection on the flight for movies was yeah, and I hadn't seen the last
03:37: James Bond flick Spectre and What was really funny was in Spectre first of all there was an attack on Cape Town In the movie and when they showed it.
03:51: I'm like hey, they blew up the Mexican restaurant. I ate at Almost right where they put the smoke and stuff in Cape Town was pretty much pretty much right where we had
04:03: Dinner at a Mexican restaurant, which is not bad the chips you could tell came right out of a bag
04:09: You know it's like Doritos type But the food you know it was really edible Different spices.
04:15: I don't care what anybody says, but it wasn't one half bad I was I was I was pleased anyway
04:21: Certainly a lot better than the one in Edinburgh. Wow nothing nothing could ever compare with the
04:28: Mexican place in Edinburgh anyway But I got to run. Oh it's Spectre and then at the end of Spectre This helicopter comes down and crashes, and you see the picture of me and Kathy running with Big Ben in the background
04:42: That's exactly where the helicopter crashed It's same bridge exact spot where Mike set up the camera to take pictures was where the helicopter crashed and So from now on you can say
04:55: I ran where that helicopter crashed Yeah That really isn't what I would tell people though Because I ran past Big Ben and heard it chiming
05:03: Oh well And ran ran ran a lap between the two bridges and past the eye We did it early enough in the morning that you could do it.
05:10: I tried it the next day on a Saturday Wall -to -wall people wall -to -wall people
05:16: I had to go different direction down to a different bridge and and stuff like that But basically
05:21: I got all my running and and rowing I rode in Cape Town and I they had a rower at the hotel
05:27: I was that it just worked out. It was such a blessing that Mike O 'Fallon with Sovereign Eye Alliance They're doing our cruise in September these folks know how to do this stuff.
05:38: They are they're the best at it and Kathy Kang They were in London at the same time. I was there so they arranged for me to stay where they were staying.
05:47: Whoa Wow the Royal Horse Guards Hotel Mm -hmm.
05:53: Oh, yeah within walking distance of Trafalgar Square and Parliament and I walked from there to The unbelievable studios premiere studios and back again, it wasn't a short walk, but it wasn't a bad walk
06:11: I Really saw a lot of downtown London more than I ever had before and mainly on foot because we were right right in the middle
06:19: Of things right along the Thames. It was it was really really cool So anyway, so I got to run
06:24: I got to row I didn't get sick and I got my rugby jersey So I'm I'm all
06:30: I'm all set this the young guys up in Coleraine, you know That was sort of the last little bleep I did really quick less than 24 hours up to Belfast, but I'd never been to Belfast I meet these young guys
06:42: All of them are younger than my son. Okay, one's name in his 20s and I'm hungry.
06:50: So I'm like, well, let's let's get let's get something to eat. So we go to an Irish pub and Let me tell you something.
06:57: There were four of us and we all said the exact same thing and these guys live there
07:04: With none of us had ever had fish and chips That was that good.
07:09: I mean Knocked it out of the park. I'm Wow the fish portion was huge it was like whale and chips, but Just melt in your mouth.
07:21: I'm getting hungry right now thinking about it And I've gone to a lot of those fish and chips places
07:27: That's I eat a lot of fish and chips when I'm in London and stuff. I mean, it's There's so many places like that and I had had fish and chips in some fancy restaurants
07:36: But this this pub and I forget the name it started with a V or a T or something. I forget Wow, it was
07:46: Unbelievable Yeah, there's there's Nicky on On Twitter wasn't a
07:53: Nicky. What was the name of that pub? I'll give it I'll give it a free free plug Tell me what the name of the the pub was in Twitter and I'll tell folks but that's when
08:03: I started finding out especially from Nicky Nicky Simpson here Every once in a while Most the time we communicated fairly well, but every once in a while.
08:17: I just hear This string of slurred
08:25: English That's Irish and I would just go do you have a interpreter for that?
08:31: What? And happened a number of times. I would just go I have
08:36: Nicky I have no idea what you just said and so he'd slow it down and I was having fun making fun of him for all of this
08:44: Lavery's Lavery's. Yeah, Lavery's pub in Belfast if you if you go there Good stuff good stuff big time really really good, but I gotta admit
08:58: We had a really good turnout at the talk that evening The guys did a lot of work to make it and I'm pretty short notice too
09:04: But make it all work out. We had folks if we had one guy flew over from England Just to attend it
09:11: But he had a guy He comes up to me and he says that's nice to have another
09:16: Scotsman in the room, you know, he says and I Very quickly realized
09:22: I said you're from Glasgow, aren't you? He's Glaswegian. Ah And all of a sudden
09:28: Nicky and all the Irishman sounded very easy to understand because Glaswegians, um
09:38: Wow, I don't even yeah, I've told you before about what happened when we did this
09:43: I was up at Annie's land Which is a suburb of Glasgow and we were doing this thing where people would come in they'd have coffee and cakes and stuff we'd witness to him and things like that and I sat down with this
09:53: Glaswegian guy, and I just needed to pray for the gift of tongues because Had to had to use other people because I couldn't understand what he was saying
10:05: Wow So the Glaswegian guy made the Irish folks sound like they were from right here in Arizona anyways
10:17: So Now now Kofi wants to go have the Irish fish and chips. I'm gonna tell you something Kofi. I Had fish and chips in a five -star restaurant in London Not to compare not to compare it was it was that good.
10:33: So anyways, we You know some serious stuff
10:39: Went down to first first I went to Cape Town went straight to Cape Town London Johannesburg Cape Town and The folks at Goodwood Baptist Church down there
10:50: You know took good care of us I met up with Rudolf Bischoff in the at the airport in Johannesburg, then he went with me to Cape Town and Had a real good time there at the conference,
11:04: I think the conference videos I've been retweeting some of them So I know they've been posted or they're being posted in parts
11:11: I'm not sure but I've retweeted some of them Yeah And I've got some catching up to do on getting those all linked into our
11:17: YouTube channel, right? So that they're in the proper categories and and we're not the kind that we download it and then upload it again
11:23: We just link to it. So So those are those will be up but we did the conference.
11:29: I spoke at the church on Mother's Day and They did a great job
11:36: That's where we went to the Mexican restaurants where it took me over so I could run along the seashore And it was like I said beautiful and I've now run along the seashore in Durban Cape Town and Malaga, Spain That's that's pretty cool
11:50: I've got pictures from all of them. That's really Really neat. Someone just asked who orders fish and chips in a five -star restaurant.
11:58: I do Yeah folks, let me give you some context here
12:03: I'm gonna eat stuff that that I like. This is this is this is the guy that will walk into Ruth's Chris Steakhouse and order a hamburger ketchup and mustard only.
12:15: No, that is that's the I know that's never done that at Ruth's Chris That's cuz there's no point in you going to Ruth's Chris.
12:21: No, I've been to Ruth's Ruth's. I've been there and I had a steak Okay, so that was an anomaly.
12:27: I guarantee it Anyway we Had a good time in Cape Town and then we came back to Johannesburg and I Did a couple things
12:41: I went to Northwest University The old Potterson University in Potterson, South Africa, and I spoke a little bit on on Bart Ehrman unfortunately
12:53: We didn't get it recorded and That was really disappointing and so I'm just simply gonna now that I have all that material sitting there
13:01: I'm just gonna have to get around to you know, maybe we'll do a
13:07: Super mega jumbo massive dividing line. I don't know how we're gonna do it But but we need to record that because I guess all we have is the audio
13:17: But I was making a video presentation. I had video clips and stuff like that so We're gonna we're gonna do that better and I thought
13:27: I misunderstood what was going on because I Thought I had two long sessions.
13:33: I only had one long session The later session was at Simon Brace's house and I spoke on the
13:39: Quran for a different group so I was confused and hence I format stuff for a much longer period than I actually had and You know,
13:48: I hope it was useful. But were you putting your hand up in there? I was just gonna say we do have a room over here
13:54: That would be excellent to just bring cameras over and do a presentation there Yeah, that's possibility.
14:01: That's possibility. We need to do it and I know a group of people that would love it. Yes. Yes Yeah, well, yeah, we'll probably
14:08: Work that out. Anyway, um I had a good time at Posh's room and especially good time at Posh's room because I I met with some folks and I mentioned very briefly on Facebook and I want to thank everybody who immediately jumped in I am going to be undertaking a major project and You know, you already look at my schedule and go
14:42: What where something's got to give and yeah I think some traveling is gonna have to give over the next couple years
14:48: But over the course the next two years I'm gonna be doing a very in -depth Project with the school there in Posh's room in textual criticism and It's gonna it's gonna require
15:06: It's gonna require a lot of work a massive amount of time and a lot of effort and I Just want to let people know that and would appreciate your prayers
15:22: I Sort of like when I was writing my last book I Used the ministry resource list when
15:27: I would come across resources. I needed I'd throw them up there We threw one up yesterday and everybody came through and I'm going to pick it up here in a few hours
15:36: It was a monitor because I needed to set things up I'm gonna be spending a lot of time collating manuscripts a lot of time in a particular papyri manuscript and It's a highly damaged one and thankfully there is extremely high quality photography of it, but it's still going to require a whole lot of very close attention work and so big screen high resolution is
16:04: Gonna be very important as I collate that against Some of the later unsealed text the the long -term reason for this
16:13: Obviously is to give us an even better foundation upon which to challenge
16:20: Unbelief to challenge whether it's secular unbelief attacks upon the New Testament religious unbelief
16:27: So on and so forth but it's gonna take some work and I would I would just ask that Those of you who support the ministry would consider
16:37: Really making commitment to do that during this period of time Because I'm gonna have to simply not get involved in a lot of other things that I normally would get involved with and It's gonna it's gonna be a challenge.
16:52: It really really is gonna be a challenge. So your prayers would be, you know for health for focus Being able to get this work done and that it would be something that would
17:01: I think could really be extremely helpful In in the defense of the faith.
17:06: So that took place while I was there in in pachastrum then we had the debate at the
17:12: University of Johannesburg and what's amazing is I Know that the video is already been posted of this and I did you link to that one yet?
17:19: Or did you see that one? I haven't had a chance to link to any of them yet Okay, so I've got some serious catching up to do
17:26: Myself and uncle John John Gilchrist did a debate With Bashir Varnia and Muhammad Khawadiyah and I Forgot to queue that up.
17:39: Oh, I need to I need to make a note to myself We'll do it on the next dividing line, but I have the
17:46: BBC video and I said I was gonna do on this one I'm sorry. I only have I can only do a jumbo today for other reasons, but we'll try to do it next week
17:56: Muhammad Khawadiyah played a BBC clip about the The Didache That Just I honestly it was hard for me not to laugh it was
18:09: So outrageously silly and yet it's BBC. I mean, I can't blame Muhammad Khawadiyah for not recognizing this he's not a scholar of early church history, but when the
18:18: BBC is trying to make it look like The Didache is a secret text and there's only one.
18:25: This is the first time this has been seen on television and blah blah blah I've covered the
18:31: Didache in every church history class. I've taught since the late 1990s No early 1990s
18:39: There is nothing secret about the Didache at all and they're trying to blow it up into well
18:44: It doesn't teach the deity of Christ. You're just like it's a discipline manual. Hello I mean it was really bad really really bad and I you know,
18:54: I feel sorry for for our Muslim friends. I Except I have to go don't y 'all realize that the
19:01: BBC does that to you Just like it does it to us the BBC is not a reliable source of information on anything religious at all period it's just anyway, so we did a debate and Especially the
19:15: Q &A period where I was being asked questions by Bashir. That was probably One of the more fast paced portions and then when
19:27: Muhammad was asking uncle John Gilchrist questions I Think the two positions were clearly discernible at that point in time, but let me mention something the guys up in Coleraine took me up to What's called the
19:43: Giants Causeway? And I looked this as soon as I mentioned I was going to Coleraine everybody started tweeting me saying you need to Get up the
19:52: Giants Causeway, so You know I flight got in and basically guys asked me what
19:58: I want to do I said, well everybody told me to go see Giants Causeway. It's only about 20 minutes drive from where we were in Coleraine so they took me out there and I had googled it and I had looked at some images, but I really wasn't 100 % certain what
20:15: I was looking at and You know, I was like hmm, okay It's a it's a geological formation right on the the shore of the
20:26: North Sea there Or the Atlantic I'm not sure if that's called the North Sea there, but anyway It's a volcanic thing to where it it looks like it's all made out of these huge extruded hexagons
20:40: It's it's it's wild. It's it really is. It's beautiful and you have to do a lot of walking to get out to it and So I was actually walking back from Giants Causeway when
20:58: I re -established cell connection and I get a note from Rudolph in South Africa We had been worried that the debate wasn't going to take place because there had been violence there had been rock throwing and a mini riot and These riots have some of them have been done by students
21:18: Who are basically demanding free education? They're Bernie Sanders guys, but they're they're in South Africa and Then by workers who want their
21:34: Jobs transferred into government jobs because basically once you get a government job in South Africa, you never get fired
21:39: You're you're you can and you have to work either so and so there's been some violence and some protests at various the universities and We were a little concerned that the debate was gonna get called off because there had been violence in morning
21:54: Well, thankfully it wasn't and we got to get it done But I'm walking out of Giants Causeway and I get this note from Rudolph Students Burned the building down that we had the debate in gutted it completely.
22:10: It's multi -stories. It's huge huge gutted As far as I can tell as far as I can tell from Rudolph The room that that debate took place in is gone no longer exists.
22:22: It's a it's a burned -out wreck The veneer of Civilization my friends is very shallow very thin and It's it's amazing and that was very sobering very sobering very sad to hear
22:46: That that had that that had taken that had taken place so Wow Tom Tom Stockman on Twitter just said apologies for being a lousy tour guide at the
22:59: Giants Causeway It was funny because these these two young Irish guys. I'm asking him questions
23:05: Why it's called Giants Causeway as they started telling me about this myth about the Irish giant and a
23:11: Scottish giant and the Irish Giants chasing a Scottish giant and so the Scottish giant knocks a there had been a causeway that connected
23:17: Ireland with Scotland and the Scottish giant was afraid that the Irish giant would chase him across the causeway so he knocked the causeway down and this is what's left of the causeway and I'm like I've got all sorts of questions.
23:31: And so I'm asking these questions and they're like Well, yeah, we that we studied that in School, but I'm not really sure
23:38: I paid attention Because I'm asking some more specific questions about the mythology behind this and Didn't really and I made fun of him for that later on but they really you know
23:50: They didn't really have to drag me out there. Anyways, so, you know, but take heart folks
23:55: He does the same thing in the Civil War with Americans who didn't pay attention in school either. Well, this is true This is true.
24:01: This is true Mutato just said two Irish Giants walk into a bar Which would work in Ireland, especially so anyway
24:13: So watch the debate I thought about flew from Johannesburg to London once again
24:22: So awesome that Mike and Kathy were there from Sovereign Because it was like a vacation for me.
24:30: Yeah, I spoke I debated but it was just Glorious it
24:36: I mean to get to run around, you know Right past the eye and cross the bridges and next to Big Ben and and we did two unbelievable broadcasts
24:45: I think the first one may have aired already and not maybe not I didn't check Sorry, I haven't had a chance to check yet Justin, but the first debate was with John Sanders on open theism.
24:57: He was a little more aggressive than he was in 2001 But It was sad.
25:03: I think once again, he got really upset when I point this out, but it's all open theists can do They have to attack the prophetic record of Scripture He said, you know, he did the
25:13: Ezekiel 26 stuff We talked about this a couple years ago and I did the debate up in in Denver with Bob Enyart But you know, basically you've got to attack prophecy in the
25:25: Bible if you're gonna substantiate open theism and He again affirmed just like Bob Enyart did that.
25:32: Yeah, Jesus could have been wrong in John 13 He might have been yeah,
25:37: I've got to leave that as a possibility The very means he uses to say to his disciples when it comes to pass you may know that I am
25:44: But hey, it may not happen. So then you may not know that I am. I mean, it's just It seems pretty obvious to me and then we did something.
25:53: I'd never heard on unbelievable before we did sort of a stump James White thing he had three different people call in he had set up these calls and We end up having these conversation and then he and I had a conversation where we end up disagreeing on some things, but it was lively and It'll it'll air at some time in the near future
26:11: I walked there and back again had fish and chips in a pub there wasn't bad, but just wasn't like it was in in Belfast and Again taking lots of pictures walking past Just Tremendous historical things, you know, it's just what
26:30: London's all about. It's it's pretty amazing but Anyway, we
26:36: Friday night. We had the debate at Kensington Temple and You know, we this was not this was not set up long long ago for something that was set up only a few weeks ago
26:54: The folks at Kensington Temple did a tremendous job it was it was it was great. They were really kind to me
27:02: Jay Smith helped out a lot with the organization of the debate They live -streamed it
27:10: And the place was packed just packed. I mean there was excitement in the air.
27:15: There was a there was a Overflow room downstairs or people sitting on the stairs It just was a great venue and It was it was it was great it was it was really really good and Adnan and I Ended up having lunch the next day at this restaurant called tortillas at Trafalgar Square wasn't bad
27:44: It was sort of like What's the I what's the name of the
27:49: Mexican place Those of you in Florida a couple other places, Georgia There was one near The house where the one one where my daughter lived for a while in Georgia Where you go in you go through a line and they make it in front of you
28:07: It's a lot mainly burritos and stuff like that. They have something called a homewrecker I know Mike took me to one near his place in Tampa and Maybe somebody in Twitter will know other than the guy who's saying immediately shouldn't be doing the debate.
28:22: We're doing next week These these folks can can post all sorts of stuff. We shouldn't debate him, you know, just just ignore this
28:30: But This place called tortillas really wasn't bad. I gotta admit and and the hots the the actual spicy
28:41: Sauce was actually spicy which in London you've got to understand Outside of Indian restaurants spicy.
28:48: Not not a not a real common thing. So Adnan I had lunch the next day Had a real nice conversation.
28:54: I've contemplated doing a video Talking about one of the things we talked about that.
29:00: I just decided to hold off on what we'll see about it we'll see if I might do but we had a great conversation and Mo's yeah mo's dork.
29:08: Yeah mo's So it's really like a mo's Except it was called tortillas and it's right at Trafalgar Square and Which is amazing
29:20: Just the places you can just walk straight from there the just everywhere you go there's history. It's just all around you
29:26: It's it's it's amazing. But those of you who watched the the debate live streamed or watched it since then
29:34: Saw this Now back in 2006 when
29:42: I first debated Shabir Ali I got into the habit and it's a little bit difficult when you're traveling of Giving books and gifts to people to Muslims when debating
29:55: Well, I saw this book sitting on Adnan's table and I wondered What it was well, he gets up his opening statement well before he starts opening statement and He presents me with this book and it is a
30:14: Commentary on the New Testament James Upton Bought it in 1694 and it was published in 1689 and It's a paraphrase and annotations upon the
30:36: New Testament By H Hammond DD and there's the date on O'Domini and it's 1689 which is
30:47: Amazing for a reformed Baptist. I've not didn't know that there was significance to 1689
30:53: The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. So I hope you found that to be interesting but Whole New Testament Amazing you do have to get used to S being an
31:07: F but and somehow I Got that and everything else.
31:15: I was given kindly Into my luggage and managed to get it all home. It was pretty tight.
31:21: And that's why my second carry -on Was overweight because I wasn't putting that in check luggage
31:28: At all and so I was I was overwhelmed by Adnan's kindness And again, it's it's people
31:37: People find it difficult to understand It Was a as always as all of our debates between Adnan myself it was a sharp contested debate
31:51: Adnan doesn't pull any punches but We obviously are friends.
31:57: We obviously get along now. It's the funny thing was when we were sitting downstairs at tortillas talking over lunch.
32:04: I Was a little nervous to be honest with you because people would sit down around us and what what are Adnan and I talking about?
32:10: We're talking Arabic and we're talking Quran and we're talking
32:16: New Testament and we're talking Isis and jihad and All sorts of stuff like that and I'm just I'm just one
32:26: I'm just expecting you know people to come down the stairs and drag us both off but thankfully that that didn't happen and So the debate went great.
32:37: It was You know, everything just worked really well Mike and Kathy were there Mike has the brand has the newest top -end
32:45: Canon camera It takes like 13 shots per second Yeah, you can hear it.
32:52: Yes, you can in the debate. Yeah, I know being being being being you know, yeah Well, they took 5 ,700 pictures of that debate and I'm wondering why so many but then he pointed out the obvious When you take just one shot half the time you get or are all these different, you know
33:10: Satanic things according to the guys the Roman Catholic guys But you know the fact the matter is our faces move and sometimes it's not a really complimentary
33:19: You can freeze -frame anybody look what they've done to Hillary Clinton or Trump or whatever. You can freeze -frame anybody and make them look silly
33:28: And With 13 shots though, you're one of them is probably turn out well and man, did they
33:34: I Mean if you look at just what Mike put up on Facebook that night the next day
33:40: That was the best But that was the most best photograph debate I've ever been at between the venue and And then
33:50: Mike and Kathy's stuff. They did a great great job really really great job and I got to tell you some folks, you know after all these debates and Especially the one there in London the people that came up to me afterwards
34:05: This program I just I just I I can't even begin to express how much it means to me when people come up and How many times now
34:16: I've had people? from Pasty white Irish guys up toward the
34:25: Arctic Circle To deep black Africans in South Africa that pretty much covers the globe, you know,
34:35: I mean, well, okay I've been in Norway too. So I could even go farther north than that and What do they say?
34:42: The dividing line kept me sane Through uni kept I it was the only reason
34:47: I had my I was able to hold on to my faith Through University the only positive voice
34:52: I was hearing Was the dividing line and it's just We've never spent almost anything to promote this program and yet there are people that listen
35:06: Literally all around the world and it's just it's it's it's amazing I had a
35:11: Muslim Apologist come up to me and Say, you know, you really make me think
35:19: You do try to be consistent. You try to be fair in your criticisms And he said
35:24: I've had to drop Half of the arguments that I used to use against Christianity because of you
35:32: Now we only got the other half to work on But I appreciated the honesty
35:38: I appreciate the kindness and when a young man came up to me after that debate and said three years ago,
35:47: I was a Muslim and Today, I am a follower of Jesus Christ and it was because of these debates
35:58: That's that's the only reason you do it. That's that's the only reason to You know
36:06: I've not mentioned how I've read Bukhari and Muslim on a bike and I've told you the story about I can remember where I was when
36:16: I heard the the hadith about Not harming women and children but right next to a hadith
36:23: It sounded like you could harm women and children that Nigerian Imam and all the rest of us I've told the story a number of times and I've spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours listening to the hadith and Adnan and I talked about that over lunch, too and Why do that?
36:39: well, you do that so that you continue to hear people like that saying
36:47: God used that and so often it's it's what removes those those barriers as to hear both sides
36:54: Right next to each other because when you only hear one side then the other side then one side then the other side
36:59: You're always left going Maybe you know,
37:05: I wish I wish I could hear this question answered. That's what makes debates so useful. So good it really is and so I Did I told that young man if he's watching you just don't know what it means to me
37:19: To hear that kind of thing. There were there were people came up to me. I'm in Bible. I'm in Bible college today because of your ministry and This one one young person
37:31: I was talking to is And and you all listen so carefully, too I'm taking
37:36: Greek and church history because you said those are the two most important ones I said, I'll wait till you get to Partisans.
37:42: Oh, we're in Partisans right now. Pray for me. You know, it's like, oh good good That's awesome. You know,
37:47: I just I Can't tell you what it what it means they had to drag me out after the debate the folks at Kenston had to actually say you need to leave now and I and because there were still people that wanted to take pictures
38:02: Oh, so people wanted me to sign their books and I wanted to do it but they had to close the place down and I felt badly doing that but It was it was incredibly encouraging it really really was and then
38:15: I went back to Kensington Temple on Sunday and I did a presentation on the LGBT stuff and Phil Johnson came and was sitting over to the left.
38:28: He posted a picture of it and That went really well and again,
38:34: I was well received and the folks were extremely kind to me and and It was just a tremendous trip it really really was
38:45: You did a great job my my flight connections were great I don't like running to try to make flight connections and being super super rushed and so that the times were great and British Airways did a great job well
39:00: Aer Lingus won one Well Aer Lingus I had a guy sit down next to me in Aer Lingus And he's a tall guy and there was no way his if he tried to sit in a normal No couldn't have done it that Aer Lingus played best 55 minutes the big deal
39:15: But man you're talking if the guy in front of you puts a seat back. He's gonna knock your teeth in I mean, it's just it was it was whoo.
39:21: Not as bad as Ryanair or EasyJet those you guys are the Ryanair and EasyJet make
39:27: Southwest look like British Airways, okay I mean they almost they almost make you pay per shoe
39:34: Because you can literally get on the plane for like three pounds, but then everything else they're even considering putting a coin thing on the bathroom
39:45: That didn't work Because that no no no think about that one for a while. Yeah.
39:51: Yeah. Yeah anyway, so Everything just worked out Smashingly and So very very thankful for all that and obviously pray for further fruit to come from all of that having said all of that I'm gonna try to be fairly brief the next morning after The debate with Adnan Were again many people greatly encouraged greatly encouraged the church encouraged to do more debates
40:28: Adnan encouraged to do more debates Adnan and I meeting for lunch Leaving as friends saying we're gonna pray for each other's families
40:39: Adnan does not believe I'm right, and I don't believe Adnan's right, and there's no compromise
40:46: But again demonstrating that you can Really discover that there are people that really believe what they believe on the other side and as long as you don't embrace
40:55: Post -modernism or that makes everything Okay Adnan and I are gonna have to keep arguing with each other, but we can do it while caring for each other
41:07: That's how it needs to be done and So after all of that I Get on to My Facebook feed and What do
41:23: I find but a Note from Steve Camp and It was posted within very period of short period of time it would have been during the period you know right after period time when people would be talking about the live feed and stuff like that and Here's what
41:46: Steve wrote on his Facebook page in all caps It's an effort in futility to debate non -believers
41:54: Especially Muslims on essential Christian doctrine 1st Corinthians 2 14 through 16 then in not all caps
42:00: It does not further the kingdom of God nor can it bring someone to salvation Better this and I when
42:06: I came to you brothers did not come proclaiming you the testimony of God with love speech or wisdom For I decide to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ him crucified 1st
42:13: Corinthians 2 1 through 2 It's the gospel that any non -believer needs to hear lengthy citation of verses when witnessing of your faith in Jesus to not try and argue someone into believing on the
42:25: Lord Jesus Christ But give a reason for the hope that is in you and do this with generalist and respect. Amen question mark well,
42:33: I Respond to this During a period of time I had in Between my flight from Belfast to Heathrow and then getting on the flight from Heathrow to Phoenix.
42:45: So I've posted a response on Facebook And if Steve has responded,
42:50: I'm not I'm unaware of it. You haven't seen okay But You know,
42:58: I don't know what's happened with Steve camp Obviously ten years ago he didn't hold this position
43:06: I first met him at debates he never expressed any reservation and I know the
43:16: Steve camp knows What I believe about these things and he knows that I don't believe for a second
43:24: That I can argue anyone into the kingdom of God do not try to argue someone into believing in the
43:30: Lord Jesus Christ He well knows he's heard me say many many times
43:39: Maybe has forgotten over the years But should know could know if wanted to that My great confidence in doing debates with Muslims or with anyone is always in the fact that God's Word will not return to him void even if God's Word goes out for judgment, and sometimes it does that's to his glory and My great confidence and joy is
44:17: That I know God has his elect people and the Spirit of God uses the
44:23: Word of God To draw his elect people unto himself and there is no power in heaven or on earth that can stop
44:30: God From bringing his people to salvation in the time at the place in the manner that he's chosen to do so All I am is an instrument
44:42: That's why if I get run over by a truck on my Between 80 and 100 mile ride on Saturday In the wee hours the morning
44:55: God's kingdom is gonna keep right on a going and You're never gonna see me being one of those folks
45:02: That falls in the trap of saying hey, you know if it weren't for me, then this wouldn't happen.
45:08: That wouldn't happen I'm just an instrument I'm Incredibly blessed to have been able to do what
45:14: I've done, but if I don't get to do anything ever again God's kingdom is gonna keep on going and That's why
45:22: I can just have absolutely I don't have to play with Coming up with ways of tricking people into stuff you proclaim
45:29: God's truth You leave it to the Spirit of God if you live in a day where God's judgments falling upon a nation It might be few and far between when you get to see true conversion, but you know what it's all up to God I just have to be faithful what he calls me to do
45:45: It's a great feeling. It's a great commitment It's great comfort so It's an effort and futility to debate non -believers
45:56: Especially Muslims on essential Christian doctrine and then he quotes first screens is 2 14 through 16, which has nothing to do with that I'm well aware that spiritual things are foolishness to the natural man, but God uses means you might as well say
46:09: It's it's an effort of futility to proclaim the gospel these folks because you're communicating truth You're communicating information
46:17: That's all that text is talking about especially in light of the fact I document that the Apostle Paul if you're gonna say if you know,
46:23: I just gotta say Steve you were you were twisting the scriptures You were simply twisting the scriptures and I don't know why
46:31: We all know who you're aiming it at But I don't get why you're twisting the scriptures.
46:36: That's not how Paul would have understood this Because he engaged in public disputation even when people were arguing against him even when the majority
46:49: Rejected his message the Bible tell us that Apollos Greatly aided those who have believed by grace because he he powerfully refuted those who contradicted
47:01: So Paul would not have made the application you did But you didn't even substantiate most of this stuff
47:08: You you know That I am
47:14: NOT trying to argue somebody into faith You have falsely said
47:19: I just I've got to be bold here Steve You have falsely said in the past that the
47:25: Gospels not being presented in these debates. I Get the feeling you ain't listening.
47:32: I Mean even did you catch the one part with Adnan? Toward the end of the debate
47:41: He Basically said not now I don't want James to start preaching because he's he's a great preacher He says he's he's he's a much better preacher than I am it.
47:48: I don't want to start preaching I just want to answer this question and Even in a debate on the subject we were debating
47:58: What did I point out what did I communicate to everyone in that room the gospel is a
48:05: Trinitarian gospel And I talked about the father's role and the sons role and the spirits role.
48:12: I mean it is simply a blatant untruth to say the gospel is not first and foremost our concern and a part of the proclamation that we make and anybody who without bias or prejudice
48:29: Listens to those debates Knows better and the Muslim man who's accepted
48:34: Christ who comes up to me after debate Might want to take some umbrage at your statements
48:40: Steve. I Think sounds like he heard the gospel somehow so like I said,
48:49: I Provided I think a fairly and it was written briefly. I only had a certain amount of time when
48:56: I was at Heathrow But provide a fair refutation of the misuse of the of these scriptures and then provided a
49:05: Number of texts and asked Steve questions You know, why why the imperfect tense in this verb because it means this was this is the iterative imperfect
49:13: This was something that Paul was repeatedly doing Even though there are people who are expressing unbelief. Hmm a
49:20: Debate that I had with Adnan was my 153rd. That sounds like an iterative imperfect So again,
49:28: I don't know why Steve has changed his perspectives from what he once held to now
49:35: But you're gonna have to come up with something considerably better in biblical argumentation
49:42: Than what was posted there now, it's very short But it was also very bold and it was it was also basically an attack upon all of us who are on the front lines
49:55: Engaging these individuals proclaiming the gospel but dealing with the objections that are presented as well
50:01: So that was posted I responded to that you can see it on the Alpha Omega Ministries Facebook page if you want to take a look at that Next while I was gone,
50:13: I'm gonna try to get through all this. It's gonna be tough. I'm trying to remember here at 17 minutes so Yeah, I think
50:21: I I think I can do this here I've got a highly entertaining cultic
50:26: King James only as video to play for you to play the whole thing because it's just It You know, it's scary at times to realize these folks drive cars and and and the whole nine yards.
50:38: It's it's it's frightening. Anyway While I was
50:43: I think it was While I was gone, wasn't it? That's the mr.
50:50: Loonsbury stuff. I had already left when all this came up wasn't it? Ah Let me see if I trying to find where I put this thing
51:01: I Had it queued up hmm
51:09: All right, lovely Did I did it did I? Thank you.
51:15: Kofi. I appreciate that Ah, there it is
51:21: Okay, um fell I name of Eric Loonsbury at some point
51:31: I think it was in an airport But It doesn't matter. Maybe it was once I had gotten to Joburg or to Cape Town or I I don't remember
51:41: I Did see a tweet from this guy that used twit longer and It said unprecedented refutation of colonism well
51:57: Look folks, you gotta understand now. I don't have to deal with this stuff very often rich does and The number of people that call this office and Explain to us that God's Called them to call us.
52:15: God told him to call us and Sometimes it's God's telling that person to show us why the
52:23: Trinity is wrong or why the Bible isn't the Word of God Um But very often it's somebody who has been called by God to refute the dreaded heresy of Calvinism and I scanned through this twit longer.
52:41: I clicked on it and I scanned through it and I I chuckled I Mean, there's a there's a level of arrogance to think that you've come up with something
52:49: No one else has ever come up with now. He's since then has tried to a lot. I thought really what I meant That's what the words meant.
52:55: Mr. Loonsbury When you say you have come up with an unprecedented Refutation of Calvinism I'm sorry.
53:05: I I've got zip respect for that Because that's just arrogance and ignorance combined on a level that's difficult to understand.
53:13: It's difficult to understand these issues have been debated and discussed for centuries and And For you to think that you're smarter than everybody else who's ever thought about this
53:29: Sorry, you're not and in fact to be honest with you in the interactions with you since then the last one
53:37: I read you admitted you're not even a part of a church That means you are in direct and open rebellion against the
53:43: Word of God. You are in sin We would not even allow you to pass out tracts with us Because you're in a position of spiritual danger you're not obeying
53:52: Hebrews 13 17 You're just like the King James only screechers who also told us now some of them go to churches normally
53:58: King James only fundamentalist Baptist churches, but But many of them pulled the same excuses that you pulled
54:07: In explaining why you're not under the biblically mandated
54:13: Obedience to elders and So you put all that together and Then I discover that Somehow this guy knew a friend of mine back in the the the last century named
54:29: Randy Churchill and Evidently one day Randy called me up and I have a vague vague.
54:37: We're talking we're talking what? 17 years ago at least somewhere around there
54:44: Called me up and wanted to know if I would debate somebody up in Idaho. I don't remember why was he in Idaho then
54:49: I Don't remember. Did he go to Idaho from from San Diego? Okay, so and I was like Well, if you want to set up a debate someplace or something like that, well guess who it was
55:02: Eric Lunsbury So for nearly 20 years, this guy's been jonesing for a debate
55:08: Whoo, and then he shows up at Jeff Durbin's place and tells Jeff Durbin that I've agreed to debate him
55:14: I somehow don't think he told Jeff That that was not that that was 17 years earlier via cell phone and that I didn't have a clue who this guy was.
55:26: I mean we're talking stalker here. Okay, you know when people start showing up at other people's churches going for 17 years and Then post a single tweet now in the stuffs came after he's called you too and Do you do you fill out report forms for me?
55:48: After action reports after action reports every call you get. No, that's that would be a complete waste of time
55:54: No, and you didn't talk to me about this guy at all. No, in fact on Tuesday I went through the process of how this works and that when
56:06: I believe that I've Proven a certain skill set with the person calling that's when
56:12: I will talk to you about it I'm not the one who decides whether or not you're going to debate somebody But I'm gonna decide whether or not this person is at least up to being
56:22: Getting to your attention over it. Right? That's all. Yeah No question. So Anyways all this stuff
56:34: Comes to my attention a little bit later on because Which day was it?
56:41: I get up one morning and Mike Licona Has tweeted
56:49: And put on Facebook that I have declined to debate His good friend
56:55: Eric Lunsbury and on Facebook. He expands upon this and basically Communicates to everybody that I like to get into every scrap.
57:04: I just argue about everything It was a cheap shot. It was a really cheap shot from Licona You know,
57:14: I I know he's a part of that group that's very anti -reformed But I I didn't expect that I really didn't so I called him out on it
57:24: And I said, hey, I don't know who Eric Lunsbury is, but he's already admitted. He doesn't read the original languages
57:31: He's not a part of a church And if you think his argument is so good, how about you debate me on it?
57:38: because at least That would be considered a fair fight This guy's not a minister, you know, some people say you shouldn't be debating this guy
57:47: You're going to Southern California to debate. I don't know much about him either, but he's a minister in a church Lane if you want to argue about it complained
57:55: Lane chaplain. He set it up over there in SoCal But Dr.
58:02: Licona I've proven my ability to engage in meaningful debate with a wider range of opponents than you have
58:13: So you got no reason to be Ducking this one if you think
58:20: That Calvinism is the doctrine of demons as Eric Lunsbury said in the tweet that you then promoted. When do we get together?
58:29: Let's let's do it Two accomplished debaters We've debated, you and I have debated in many of the same places, many of the same people.
58:40: Shabir Ali, I've debated many times How about it? So I thought it was a cheap shot, and I I really don't expect him to take me up on the offer
58:49: But we stand ready. We stand ready so Lunsbury goes to What was amazing was that Licona would say this based on a single tweet
59:04: That's all I said. They're assuming that well since he called and talked to Rich I know everything about every person that calls
59:11: Rich Pearce, and and so I know all about this That's what was really cheap and cheesy about Licona's shot is
59:19: I'm traveling. He knows what that's like He knows what living out of a suitcase is like being nine hours ahead of the
59:27: United States in time So it's just it was just I was really really disappointed because you know
59:35: I've criticized some of Mike Licona's debates But always been very fair about it.
59:40: This wasn't even slightly fair. I've never been unkind to Mike Licona He was really unkind to me, so gives you an idea where that group's coming from I guess but Anyway, here's the problem
59:56: The unprecedented refutation of Calvinism that was presented by Mr..
01:00:06: Lunsbury is just a tad bit on the unhinged side, okay? Which is sort of what you expect when someone for almost two decades is you know?
01:00:18: And it's convinced that you're teaching the doctrines of demons when you think someone's teaching the doctrines of demons a
01:00:26: Lot of folks tend to sort of drop being overly accurate in their statements in the process and don't really do a whole lot of in -depth research and reading and study and stuff like that and so the arguments are
01:00:41: Very common arguments. I hate to inform Mr.. Lunsbury of this but There's nothing new here, and you haven't discovered anything new sorry
01:00:50: I know this is probably devastating for you after 17 years of thinking that you had the light But but other people have tried this exact same approach
01:01:00: Which is well if Calvinism is true, and I defend and I define
01:01:06: What Calvinism says by my understanding? Then this verse would not say this so If God for example uses means
01:01:19: To judge a people for example in the parable of the soils
01:01:26: The birds eat up the word that is put upon the the hard soil
01:01:33: So they may not believe and be saved and so what Mr.. Lunsbury does is
01:01:40: He assumes That this creates a capacity and ability that refutes
01:01:47: Calvinism Rather than focusing upon the reality of the parable which is what the soils are all about He wants to turn into a statement about man's capacity
01:02:01: Now you have direct Didactic teaching direct not parables not inferences you have direct teaching from the lips of Jesus Concerning man's inability from the lips of the
01:02:14: Apostle Paul concerning man's inability don't need to worry about that We have inferences from parables. That's gonna win the day
01:02:20: Nothing new about this Nothing new about it at all But here's the problem
01:02:31: When you attempt to engage an Unchurched in rebellion against the
01:02:38: Word of God A solo prophet who claims to know the heart of God and is being directed around by God, okay?
01:02:47: Now you see if you were being directed by the Spirit of God, Mr. Lunsbury the Spirit of God that inspired Luke Hebrews 13 17 would be convicting you of that So maybe that's not the
01:02:57: Spirit of God that you're feeling Thought about that. I mean I sort of have to point that out to Mormons when they talk about the Spirit of God They might need to point out to you, too
01:03:06: But here's the problem Meaningful conversations would generally include a positive theological explication from both sides so in other words
01:03:23: When Michael Brown and I Debated a southern evangelical seminary one of the key areas of focus was upon The doctrine of God God's nature
01:03:41: God's knowledge and God's relationship to time because that's foundational well, it's foundational to a consistent
01:03:51: Christian theology I Don't have any way of knowing
01:03:58: Whether mr. Lunsbury has a consistent Christian theology at all
01:04:05: Is he a Molinist? Is he an open theist? Does he hold to simple free will? Why?
01:04:13: Is he consistent in his understanding? Is there a divine decree of God? Does God learn things?
01:04:20: You see once again this this takes us back to one of the most important aspects of this particular dispute
01:04:26: And that is something I've said over and over and over again The fundamental issue here is whether you are theocentric or anthropocentric whether you're
01:04:39: God -centered or man -centered and If you start from man's perspective and try to reason up to conclusions about God You're not going to come up with reformed theology
01:04:50: Because the Bible doesn't do that. The Bible has plenty in it about man's experience of God and stuff like that, but the
01:04:59: Bible more foundationally Begins with God and God's nature and it is necessary to understand
01:05:09: God's nature to have the proper view of man's nature and So Issues Regarding do you believe
01:05:21: God knows the future? How does God know the future? Does he passively take in knowledge of the future?
01:05:28: Can his knowledge of the future be abrogated? Can it be false? Can it be contradictory?
01:05:35: These are all vitally important issues that should be Foundational to an analysis of anything else and so Mr.
01:05:50: Lunsbury tries to pull the oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't read Greek and Hebrew But just like what the
01:05:55: Pharisees said to the Apostles they were unlearned men stuff Yeah, that's you know,
01:06:03: Joseph Smith did it Everybody's always done that to to gloss over their ignorance of Scripture and their mishandling of Scripture.
01:06:10: That's a that's that's the way to do it Try to create the idea that what you're saying is you have to know these languages know anything about anything is true about God It's not the case at all, but if you want to respect
01:06:24: God's Word Then you're gonna handle it a right and you're gonna take advantage of the opportunities that are given to you to be able to engage in meaningful exegesis and if you don't that might indicate a level of pride and arrogance on your part that is absolutely reprehensible maybe
01:06:46: Yes, sir I was gonna say one of the things that occurred to me when I learned that this fellow goes all the way back to the
01:06:53: Randy Churchill days How far have you come in the last 15 to 17 years you've lost my hair
01:07:01: You what you lost your hair? Well, there is that you've you've taken on Islam Okay, look at all the different growth areas that you've continued in your learning, right?
01:07:12: Exactly. What is it that? Mr. Lonesbury has done in that time
01:07:19: He does list off that he I guess did some teaching at a Calvary Chapel somewhere and Etc.
01:07:26: But he's done two debates with atheists. That's good. What what? personal growth in Ministry did he actually achieve during that time from what
01:07:37: I can tell nothing. I don't know. I don't know Anyway So Here here's here's the point evidently, mr.
01:07:51: Lonesbury believes that I am supposed to Give him a platform based upon Little articles put on twit longer.
01:08:06: Here's here's what mr. Lonesbury needs to do You're starting
01:08:16: You're starting with negative points, okay, my instinct is you're a stalker.
01:08:25: I don't see balance You're in rebellion against the Word of God. I think you need to be in a church and Of course,
01:08:38: I'm sitting here thinking well, what church would that be? In a church where you actually would be under the authority of the people over you because I just get the feeling you got an issue
01:08:48: With authority I really do And then there needs to be an expression because it people had to almost shame you into doing this there needs to be expression
01:08:59: Positive expression of what you actually believe Is it consistent? What do you believe about the nature of God does is are you an open theist?
01:09:10: Are you a Molinist? What are you? Demonstrate that you
01:09:18: Have some foundations here rather than just wandering around and saying God told you to do this and that and the other thing and showing up at People's churches
01:09:31: That's that's absolutely, you know, that's the starting point that's starting point what else what else can
01:09:37: I say and By the way, by the way, if you if you won't look around you'll find lots and lots of people who have addressed your
01:09:46: Totally precedented Arguments because they they aren't new. Sorry.
01:09:51: I know it's probably really devastating to you, but they're they're not new. Okay one last thing here Also, I was gone a
01:10:04: New video came out now seeing some videos. I think he's with Jack check and this guy's with Jack check if I recall correctly or at least
01:10:11: Jack chick posts his stuff a King James Again, let me point something out
01:10:23: Not everyone who is King James only is cultic in their beliefs Okay, I've said that for a long time.
01:10:30: I lay out the various views and the King James only controversy but there is a cultic
01:10:37: King James only is Peter Ruckman died a couple weeks ago and And Gil Ripplinger is still around Sam Gibbs still around Ruckman ism
01:10:50: Ripplinger ism. Gip ism cultic. What do I mean by that? They make it the central aspect of the
01:10:56: Christian faith Questioning of their human tradition and it's a human tradition Becomes the means by which you are excluded from the kingdom of God.
01:11:05: You don't agree with them on this you're going to hell That's all there is to it. It's cultic the way of thought the thought processes become
01:11:14: Cultically twisted just as when if you talk to a Mormon missionary And they know the
01:11:19: Book of Mormon is true because they got a feeling about it because they prayed about it and there's there's no reason Going on. There's no there's no grounds for being able to challenge what the
01:11:28: Book of Mormon says it is a cultic system
01:11:34: Um McKinney Kinney Will Kinney the guy that we did we had a another example of Just a cultic mindset no ability to break out and to think the rationality goes out the window
01:11:51: These folks obviously become extremely susceptible to every form of conspiracy theory known to man well here's a
01:12:04: I'm just gonna play it. It's 17 minutes long. I May make a few comments But my facial expression might do.
01:12:13: Oh, yeah, I was gonna say just let folks know Unusual we're gonna keep it down in the corner. So if they need to record any demonic faces we can get that while they're at it
01:12:21: No, these would be Jesuitical face. That's right. Good point. Yeah Because remember
01:12:27: I'm actually working for Rome. Yes, that's right, which is funny given that the other guys were yeah working for Rome All right.
01:12:35: Here we go. Folks. You can't make this kind of stuff up. Why is
01:12:41: James White's book endorsed by a Jesuit Seems kind of strange.
01:12:47: Yeah, I mean James White is Proclaims to be a Calvinist and things like this and but I'm not most
01:12:52: Calvinists throughout history have been very much anti Roman Catholic Hmm people say well, he debated
01:12:57: Roman Catholics Oh, yeah, but there's things within the Jesuit oath that say about speaking against your own.
01:13:04: Holy Church Speaking against the Roman Catholic Church as a Jesuit, so that's not really proving anything.
01:13:10: Let me show you the quote here Here I have the check this out rich Overhead camera and then later edition in that cool attacking
01:13:19: Bible -believing Christ I need one of those the little Jesuit game that white and his followers play as a
01:13:24: Jesuit He's not attacking those who use the King James Bible He's not attacking the
01:13:29: King James Bible just the fact that he goes through and tries to point out errors in the King James Bible and Mocks and puts down those who use the
01:13:37: King James Bible, but he's not attacking Okay, little mind -control tactic that these
01:13:42: Jesuits are good for you know, they use sophistry sophistry mind -control tactics
01:13:50: Sophistry well there where they will say that they're not doing something while they're doing it playing little word games is what it is
01:13:56: Mind control, but anyhow, let me just show you here the quote zoom in here here we have
01:14:05: Norman Geisler, this is the best book in print on a topic too often riddled with emotion and ignorance
01:14:12: Same thing in the newer edition right there. You have it All right There you go.
01:14:18: There you go. You say what's this have to do with a Jesuit? Norman Geisler is a Jesuit. Let me show you the proof
01:14:26: I'm gonna what I'm gonna do here now I just because we're gonna run over time if I do this too much but you know that a lot of people call him
01:14:35: Roman Geisler and The funny thing about this is Long before this guy ever came along for 20 years.
01:14:44: I have been engaging in Norman's Weaknesses when it comes to the issue of Roman Catholicism I have a long history of this and He but to these folks even the differences between Geisler not even
01:15:03: Geisler's Constant attacks upon me are irrelevant because once you have the
01:15:09: Jesuit thing going You don't have to worry about consistency You can take two utterly contradictory things put them together and just gloss it over with well, that's just the
01:15:20: Jesuits That's just the Jesuits. Now. The funny thing is how many times well this goes back.
01:15:25: This would have to go back a long ways But how many times have I mentioned my concern with the fact that Geisler got his
01:15:30: PhD from a Jesuit school? I've pointed this out many times and I believe that it's foundational to his rejection of Reformed Theology I think it's foundational to his absolute embracing of Thomas Aquinas and I have argued that the
01:15:48: Geisler school emphasizes human philosophy over biblical exegesis. I argued with Norman about presuppositionalism at the 1996
01:16:02: Christian Booksellers Association over lunch. I did there were witnesses
01:16:08: So There is an issue with Norm on that subject, but that it's it's
01:16:17: Ridiculous to then turn Norm into a Jesuit just because he has been compromised on certain philosophical topics as Unfortunately, a lot of evangelicals have that doesn't make him a
01:16:30: Jesuit and it's absurd to make me a Jesuit and I know one
01:16:36: Jesuit Mitch Pacwa and he would find it quite humorous. I May send him a link to this so he can get a good chuckle out of it, too
01:16:44: But yes, hey point of order here. I discovered something, you know, I used a Mac with your Mac while you were gone
01:16:51: And I messed stuff up. I'm sure yeah, you broke my thing Yeah, but I discovered something on the video stuff
01:16:57: You don't have to use your trackball to bring up the stuff hit your space bar It'll start and stop with your space space bar.
01:17:03: Try it. Well, that's can you get my the camera there over at my desk?
01:17:10: Well, that's cool. We can talk because he wasted a bunch of time here waiting for someone to go get him a can How do you like that?
01:17:15: Huh? That's pretty cool Okay, so the space bar. Well, okay. Okay. All right, man
01:17:24: I'm lucky. I can get my pointer over to it now after what he did to my system, which I haven't been able to fix
01:17:31: Alright I'm gonna go kind of low -tech. I don't know happens when that guy sees you on this computer
01:17:38: So I'm just going to my camera here just to show you Check it check it out now.
01:17:43: Okay, here we go. This is good. So you what's on not quite as high -tech as Norman Geisler calm about Norman Geisler Hey, can we see anything on Ergon Cantor on there?
01:18:01: Norman Geisler PhD is a prolific author veteran professor speaker lecturer blah blah blah blah cross between I thought this was interesting
01:18:09: Thomas Aquinas and Billy Graham I Wouldn't want to be associated with either man, but down here.
01:18:15: It says Norm has authored or co -authored all these books and blah blah, you know, he's taught theology
01:18:21: Philosophy beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy. It talks about in the Bible book of Colossians their professor
01:18:30: Veritas evangelical if you're a King James on a cultic King James onlyest My suggestion is do not apply to teach philosophy
01:18:39: Anywhere, I doubt there's any philosophy professors at the Reckman school probably not.
01:18:45: I'm an area. It sounds kind of Catholic to me, but Veritas education
01:18:50: Veritas sounds kind of Catholic to me. It's the word truth But Greek and that's it's not
01:19:01: English. It's that it's not in the King James Bible. Now. Here's where it's interesting. Oh interesting.
01:19:06: Here we go University Wheaton College right there. That's Billy Graham's which
01:19:12: Billy Graham is a sellout to the Vatican, but here's the big one How about how about Loyola University in Chicago and he got a
01:19:20: PhD in philosophy, you know Yeah, okay
01:19:25: PhD in philosophy Here you have it again Norman Geisler, this is a moody
01:19:34: Bible publisher right there Norman Geisler Loyola University PhD Loyola University All right, and I'll just show you here really quickly this
01:19:46: Veritas Evangelical seminary check this out, you know defending the faith, you know
01:19:54: Again, it's it's a very Catholic thing there. I know the Bible says, you know earnestly contending for the faith, but defending the faith
01:20:01: That's very much Catholic what they say so hmm
01:20:08: Interesting I'm going to show you something else here in just a minute, but that also will tie into this thing very nicely
01:20:19: But you say people say well, he just look he just went to You know
01:20:25: Loyola University, okay, you know, so it's named after Ignatius de Loyola Ignatius The founder of the
01:20:31: Jesuit order, you know big deal. He just went he got a degree that doesn't make him a Jesuit. I Don't think so Some guy of his level that goes to a
01:20:42: Jesuit openly Jesuit school and then ends up teaching in liberal You know universities like Dallas Theological Seminary He's a
01:20:50: Jesuit. Don't tell me that you can go through Jesuit schooling and come out somehow opposing the views of the
01:20:56: Jesuits I mean, give me a break. I mean, you know if you're one of James White's followers Maybe you're stupid enough to believe that but you know
01:21:03: Bible believers have been around for a while. We know better but Just you know and and look at them if Norman Geisler is a
01:21:11: Jesuit Let's just be let's look at this thing logically for a minute If he is a Jesuit, what would one of the the biggest things be that he would oppose?
01:21:22: King James Bible believing Christians We're the biggest threat to Popish persons
01:21:28: You are that that's why you are just making such huge inroads I see you guys out there debating
01:21:35: Roman Catholics all the time. Oh, no, I don't never mind We always have been that's why the
01:21:41: Roman Catholic Church has never once endorsed the King James Bible They'll endorse the NIV. They'll endorse the new revised standard version.
01:21:48: Don't you love that that level of historical? We'll go from the NIV back to King James the the stuff that was right after the
01:21:56: Reformation. We'll just parallel We won't worry about what happened in between those times, but you know of Catholic editions of it
01:22:02: They'll endorse those new versions They'll sell them, but you will never find Catholics endorsing truly endorsing the
01:22:10: King James Bible. You'll never see it so for a Jesuit to come out and Say something on the
01:22:17: Bible version issue No, no surprise that he says the best book in print on a topic too often riddled with emotion and ignorance
01:22:23: That's what he says about you as a Bible believing Christians or a Bible believing Christian. Excuse me.
01:22:28: You're emotional and you're ignorant Boy have we seen that over time haven't we we've proved it in almost every single debate we've done
01:22:39: But we're not attacking you you're emotional and ignorant, but we're not attacking you we're saying it in love
01:22:45: See, we're smiling, you know, sure sure
01:22:52: Let me show you something else. That's interesting. Here we go about the older edition here of this King James only controversy.
01:22:58: I thought this was kind of telling and I'm sure this Ridiculous Bible perversions of the New Age video
01:23:05: Here you have on the inside of the book Some Latin there, by the way,
01:23:12: I typeset that I put that there recta ambulamus ad veritatem evangeli, that is walking straight according the truth of the gospel comes straight out of of course
01:23:24: Paul's statement in Galatians about Peter not doing that and Here you're gonna get the if it's a symbol it's satanic
01:23:33: Now it may be a symbol of the Trinity and it may be one of the best symbols of the Trinity the tricetra three equal arcs
01:23:41: Connected together and one one of the best symbols of the Trinity. Oh, but a pagan might have used it Yeah, they've used every symbol there is at some point in time, but this is the mindset there won't be any consistency here
01:23:55: Anything you can use You'll throw it out there Context is irrelevant. As long as you've played the
01:24:01: Jesuit card. See that's that's just it's really easy and a tricetra tricetra, how about that?
01:24:10: Used by witchcraft as well as the Roman Catholic whore
01:24:15: Which is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth? Notice there is a wedding ring on his finger originated in paganism
01:24:27: Just I had mentioned that in the past. Witchcraft is subservient to the Vatican, but right there you have it again a pagan symbol
01:24:35: And you say well, you know, he probably realized it was pagan and took it out and stuff because he's a fine
01:24:41: Christian Well, if that's the truth and again, this is from the old video Why would he write a book called the
01:24:47: Forgotten Trinity and put the same symbol on the front the heart of Christian belief?
01:24:57: You notice the Ruckmanites don't produce stuff on the Trinity and stuff like that that help people to you know Reach Muslims and stuff like that because it's a cult
01:25:05: Yeah pagan symbol on there Hmm when the Bible clearly says that we're not supposed to make graven images of the
01:25:14: Godhead You think that's supposed to be a picture of God? Really? Oh, okay
01:25:23: Interesting. Hey, did you see that eyebrow come up? Could we send this to the guys up in New York? I Think I think
01:25:29: I think the guys of New York We should introduce these guys. I really think they should yeah
01:25:35: Hey, you know what the guys up in New York are always jonesing for a good debate other John Mary. Let there we go
01:25:40: Yeah, I love it. Yep. Yep Well, this is just all just so crazy, you know And we won't even get into the fact that James White recommends the
01:25:48: Nestle's text the Nestle's text which actually you know What what I'm gonna get into that because I get this all the time from little
01:25:55: James White's followers little James White You know, you can't prove it.
01:26:00: You can't prove it. He doesn't say anything about the Vatican Okay, princess.
01:26:05: Okay, you ready? Oh princess. That's nice. You ready? Carlos Maria Martini was on the
01:26:12: UBS committee. There were Catholics involved and therefore as long as the
01:26:19: Catholics around Now, of course the Texas Receptus was originated by Catholic priest
01:26:27: But that doesn't matter because you see a cult of King James only ism You never have to worry about applying the same standards never not once One standard for the
01:26:37: King James now the standard for everybody else There you go. I Am gonna prove it to you here.
01:26:44: We have the Nestle lawn 27th edition. I have the 28th up there on the shelf above me and we have page 45 the introduction and you can just read that if you want to But it's a agreement between the
01:27:06: Vatican and the United Bible Societies It is served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision
01:27:16: Do you see it? Yes, the Nestle's text is done under the
01:27:22: Vatican's supervision and they get their little boy working on the team here of Scholars, I'll show you this guy this guy's name
01:27:36: Carlo Maria Martini now, by the way, what would actually be relevant about this to a clear -thinking person not a not a cultic person
01:27:44: The fact and a lot of people are I think about this the fact that Rome has changed its understanding of the
01:27:54: Authoritative text that would be relevant for those of us actually debate Roman Catholics and and deal with Roman Catholicism And oppose it which these folks don't they just have you know
01:28:04: This is this is their world and it's all King James only ism and everything else is just the
01:28:10: Jesuits and things like that but what would be relevant is to compare the reality of The modern
01:28:19: Understanding of what the authoritative text was with what it was right after the Reformation and with Sixtus's infallible
01:28:25: Vulgate That would be the relevance that would be actually important in an understanding of the evolution of Roman Catholic beliefs and Authority and and those would be things that you know, if you're actually trying to deal with Roman Catholicism rather than just simply
01:28:39: Calling it the whore and then producing videos like this that that would be the thing but look it up.
01:28:45: Google it get yourself an education Okay, James White and his ilk are always telling saying that people like me are emotional and ignorant, you know
01:28:54: There's a little Jesuit buddy there Geisler Okay. Well, I'm do you think it's do you think it's non -emotional to talk about my little
01:29:02: Jesuit buddy Geisler? I mean that this is this is supposed to be
01:29:09: Documented rational thinking maybe who knows ignorant. So don't trust me go to Google and type in Carlo Martini And see what you come up with and what you're gonna find is he was a
01:29:21: Jesuit Cardinal. Yeah, the Jesuits of Roman Catholic sect that their whole purpose their whole by the way, and we're running out of time
01:29:30: We're actually out of time, but watch a little bit later on toward the end They're going to put some pictures up in the left -hand corner and You know right up In this area.
01:29:42: I'm moving the cursor around and they're going to morph Roman Catholics into my face over and over again
01:29:50: That's what I'm gonna do Now, you know, I I personally think if you're if you're going to make an argument
01:29:58: Make it based upon reason rationality, but these guys Evidently think that morphing faces and Is is a form of argumentation or something and it's properly
01:30:11: Appropriately done. I mean, can you imagine if I had done something with Ruckman and Morphing his face into Wild -eyed nutcases can you imagine what they would have said about that?
01:30:22: How un -christian? again No King James onlyest ever concerns himself ever concerns himself about equal standards
01:30:32: Never never never King James onlyism cannot survive without double standards Reason for being founded back in the 1500s was to bring all people back under the authority of the
01:30:42: Roman Catholic Church Interesting, but it doesn't end there didn't tell you one other thing here quickly, but wait there's a camera
01:30:53: Let's get the camera. There's an there's an easier way to do this Ready He goes to Dave Armstrong folks.
01:31:07: Can you believe it? He he's proving that I'm a Jesuit because Dave Armstrong lists my books on his site.
01:31:15: Can you believe the ignorance? I mean he has no earthly idea of the interactions
01:31:20: Dave Armstrong and I had in the past I've ignored him for a long long time But he has no clue the amount of time that we spent taking
01:31:29: Dave Armstrong apart in a way that I can guarantee you this man could not even begin to do
01:31:34: Because he's never studied that stuff But this is this was hilarious. This this was this is well worth playing the biblical catholic .com
01:31:44: I think that's funny. That's a oxymoron if there ever was one the word Catholics not even in the
01:31:50: Bible Humorous there David Dave Armstrong author is an
01:31:56: American Catholic Tree that's his blog which includes material from his previous website contains more than 2 ,500 hundred articles defending
01:32:05: Catholicism they're not Christians. They are Satanists. They are cannibalistic Satanists and Born in 1958 there's a fly biblical defense of Catholicism one -minute apologist the
01:32:17: Catholic verses so Let's go and we'll click on here hmm
01:32:26: Interesting enter apologetics like nice little a new world order all religions come together thing evangelical
01:32:33: Catholic apologist apologetics Philosophy and line up with old
01:32:39: Geisler wouldn't it? Let's look at recommended books hmm, I Wonder who a
01:32:47: Catholic would recommend. Let's click on Protestant starting up here
01:32:53: Protestant apologetics Up Christian apologetics by Norman Geisler. Oh another book by Norman Geisler Norman Geisler Norman Geisler How about that?
01:33:05: Huh, isn't that interesting? Norman Geisler being recommended by a Catholic and uh -oh
01:33:12: James White the Forgotten Trinity the book that I just showed you a little bit earlier hmm,
01:33:18: I guess that means the E Calvin Beisner and Bob Morley are Jesuits too because Everyone's being hey, look
01:33:25: David King and William Webster Holy Scripture the ground pillar of our faith. They're Jesuits, too.
01:33:34: Oh the guy just is so Dull defyingly ignorant of what these books actually are and why
01:33:41: Armstrong is listing them. I mean, it's it's just like take Take hand grenade pull pin eat
01:33:50: It's just to talk about self -destruction. Wow How about that, uh, another one by James White Scripture alone on solo scriptura, yeah
01:34:00: James White Isn't that interesting? Hmm, how about RC sprawl?
01:34:06: Oh another Norman Geisler up da Carson another man that attacks the
01:34:11: King James Bible believing all about the movement another book by James White Huh, isn't that interesting and look at the one below it why
01:34:20: I'm not a Calvinist so How about that, how about that?
01:34:28: Whoo, I find that very interesting. Hmm I'm sure a Roman Catholic would recommend
01:34:33: James white recommend. He was one people to read those books If if those books were if white and Geisler were such a threat to Catholicism They would be on a list of heretical books that you're not supposed to read
01:34:48: Very interesting very interesting indeed. Okay, just need to make one little more add -on
01:34:57: What's the more massive inconsistency check this out, but I didn't go far enough down Check this out. He actually does this
01:35:03: Catholic actually does recommend James White's book. He does something else very interesting. Look at this Here you can see it.
01:35:10: Look King James only controversy by James Okay again, you know if being listed like calm
01:35:17: Gail Riplinger is now a Jesuit been proven by Jack chick What's he doing with Gail Riplinger's book?
01:35:23: Well, he recommends Gail's book But then and David O's Fuller here. It's refuted by being Jesuit, too
01:35:29: So I'm interesting James only isn't was a challenge. Oh, wait a minute. Okay, I keep using the same standards
01:35:35: I'm sorry this one but make sure to get James White's book refuting it Who do you think James White is a really in bed with here?
01:35:41: Do you think he's really working for? Let me see Probably the Catholics and check this out to the thing of anti Catholic books
01:35:52: James White James White, there's two books by James White Right there Hmm.
01:36:01: So what's going on there? Well James White is controlled opposition for the Catholics. I'm controlled.
01:36:07: Yes recommends their Bibles. Yes. Okay their text and the Bibles that come from them
01:36:12: He'll never tell you that the NIV or the New American Standard or the Dewey Reams or any of them are satanic
01:36:18: They're just different ways of it being written and shades and nuances of the Greek and whatever else
01:36:25: But you want you'll not see this You get in a little bit of Anger and vitriol in there seems to be a little emotional a little almost shaking of the voice
01:36:36: Like in Catholic here recommending strong Bible believing Christian books that really truly refute their positions like who?
01:36:45: They just use their little like just with co -adjuders that Buddy out of the
01:36:51: Vatican agitators. Is that what you meant? That's why I Don't recommend you even wasting time with a guy like this.
01:37:00: Don't even waste your time see I've explained this before the watch ever left more time here in closing and that is when you are dealing with a man that Is an heretic you admonish them twice and the third time you reject them?
01:37:12: All right, according to Titus chapter 3 verses 9 through 11, I believe it is Don't waste time with people like this.
01:37:20: You see once they have a philosophy that the King James Bible is not true They will continually come out with new questions and new opposition
01:37:29: They'll just continue coming out with them until they can get you on one that you can't answer Then they say see your whole system is flawed
01:37:36: See their philosophy is they do not have the philosophy of believing that God has a book Preserved that's without error that you can hold in your hands
01:37:46: They don't believe that The authority has to be invested in something else a man a scholar a church
01:37:55: Yeah, so that's why I say don't even waste time with this kind of junk, all right, I Have a lot of these books because I refute them and maybe some people said could you please do a thorough?
01:38:08: Refuting of James White's book. Well other people have oh really Ruckman has Ruckman There's been a whole bunch of other but by the way
01:38:15: Ruckman's Ruckman's thing was Well is insane. I mean, it's the only way to put it.
01:38:21: It if you considered mockery refutation Great, if you're actually looking for meaningful interaction not a word of it have refuted his book so, you know to me,
01:38:34: I'm just like well I can you know, but it's Other people have already, you know There's work for me to do things that have people have not done or whatever else that the
01:38:43: Lord Places in my heart or I get requests from people. Could you please do something on this or whatever? I try to focus on that, but maybe at some point in time if I get caught up with my projects
01:38:53: Maybe I'll come out and refute this stupid nonsense and it is stupid nonsense But you see people with no emotion people in the
01:39:00: James White. Here we go. Here we go They don't watch a Bible that is free free from error and perfect and pure they don't want that and They want to be able to say well we can explain everything away and stuff.
01:39:12: They don't want to live by faith either See, that's the that's the whole issue. They are practicing atheists is what they are practicing
01:39:18: Maybe not professing atheists, but they are practicing atheists their God has no there's no real authority or anything from him
01:39:25: He does not have a written set of scriptures that they can rely on He had one at one time perhaps maybe but we don't know where it is.
01:39:33: It's lost It's probably he raptured it up to heaven someplace. He called it up there and that's where it lives or whatever It's nonsense.
01:39:39: So don't waste time with us. Somebody comes and says hey, you ought to read James White's book No No, don't waste your time with it.
01:39:48: Don't even waste time. Okay, we've we've already Here that's all he's gonna do. I just showed you the proof proof and again if you know that a guy is a
01:39:57: Jesuit Why would you put his endorsement now, you know not on the back or some kind of thing on the front cover now
01:40:04: Of course, he's promoting a text translated something done by a Roman Catholic priest, but that doesn't make him a Roman Catholic. Of course
01:40:10: Norman Geisler Jesuit and you put his endorsement at the very top of your book.
01:40:19: Oh boy. Oh boy is right folks there you have cultic
01:40:25: King James only ism as Imbalanced and wild -eyed and wacky as it comes, but unfortunately, it's out there and And they don't like me.
01:40:37: No, they don't know they don't All right, folks, there you go great to be back
01:40:46: I will try to Get to whatever it is. I said I was supposed to do
01:40:53: On on Tuesday. There was a something else I was supposed to see I've already forgotten which one it was I hope I remember I have to go back and listen to see but Lord willing.