Answering the Critics from the Philippines

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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Everything that false teachers teach is false. Some of it is right Benny Hinn is a false teacher by every single biblical criterion of the term if Benny Hinn is not a false teacher than the term has no meaning

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Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rap report where we provide biblical interpretations and applications

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This is a ministry of striving for eternity More content or to request a speaker a seminar for your church go to striving for eternity dot org

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Hey, it's Justin Peters there. Yes. He is here speaking. Okay, so Justin Peters is with me

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We just got back from the Philippines. I know many of you had been praying for us. We are very very

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Very grateful for those prayers because they were needed and you'll see some of the fruit of the trip that we had

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I do want to say up front for those who helped to donate to Allow us to be able to go for folks who don't know the church

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They're in the Philippines help take care of things while we were there, but both Justin and I Committed that we were going to go and regardless of whether the funds were coming in for the flights

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And so we covered our own flights to get out there and they covered things once we were there So people realized that was donated and we are very grateful for those of you who made this possible

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We wanted to kind of give you an update on some of the things that went on Justin This was your second trip out there to the

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Philippines, correct Rick Andrew. I was there four years ago yeah, 2015 and Enjoyed my time very much then but I think

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I enjoyed this trip even more than I did the first one So I truly was a joy We got a lot to talk about so I wanted to kind of go day by day and you and I just talked through The events of each day and some of the stuff we did so we hit the ground running mean pastor

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Armand kept us busy That would be a fair assessment, correct? Yeah. Yeah But you know,

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I'm glad he did when I go on these trips when you go on these trips a lot of times people ask

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Me well, you went to so -and -so country. Did you see this? Did you see that? And I'm like, no, we typically don't do any sightseeing when we go when

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I go on international trips So we hit the ground running. We're there for a reason. We're there to preach teach

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God's Word evangelize and that's what we do So he did keep us busy, but I'm glad he did because that's why we were there

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We did our best to redeem the time. So it was it was good It was tiring but it was good a good a good kind of tired

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Yeah, and it was I mean we landed we originally the plan was that we were gonna go there have one day of rest

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Without any any activities so we could adjust to any jet lag and it didn't quite work out that way

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We we flew in now You were not feeling well in that flight in and for folks who are following at least me on on Facebook We ended up flying into a lightning storm

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I remember looking out the window as we were coming in and we were seeing that lightning just cracking as we were landing and then

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We were stuck on the ground for about two hours and you weren't feeling good at that time We barely got much sleep first thing in the morning.

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We were at a radio interview, which was an interesting interview I think with knowing what we found out afterwards

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We kind of were like wow some of the things we said really may have had an impact there We had an interview they interviewed both of us together talk about the conference some of the things we talked about then they interviewed you

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Interviewed me separately and you and I both brought up the issue of Hillsong and Jesus culture music

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Why do you think that may have had an impact there? well I hope that it had an impact there because the as we found out towards the kind of towards the end of our time they this particular radio station plays a lot of the

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Jesus culture in Hillsong music and Initially the interviews seemed to go very well

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And they seem to be in support of the things that we were saying about Jesus culture and Hillsong Which for those who may not know who may be new to this

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We are very much opposed to playing Hillsong songs in church and Jesus culture songs in church because these two groups come from heretical churches false churches

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Hillsong from a name Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia Jesus culture from Bethel Church pastored by Bill Johnson read in California Both of these are false churches

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And so when when you play their music, even if the music that you're playing may pass a basic doctrinal smell test

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When you when you play their music in church the unsuspecting person out there sitting in the pew reading lyrics on the screen

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They see in the fine print kind of bottom left hand corner I think it is on music by Hillsong music by Jesus culture and they see that and they think oh wow

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That's Hillsong Jesus culture. I think I'll check them out there but they must be okay because we're singing their songs in church and Bethel and Hillsong use their music as a hook to pull you into their heretical system heretical theological system

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So so I strongly warn churches I know I'm really going against the stream of thought here the prevailing mainstream

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Thought and evangelical churches, but I really urge people churches pastors music ministers

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Don't sing Hillsong songs in your church. Don't sing Jesus culture music in your church because these are coming from false

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Churches heretical churches. So anyway all that to say I think this radio station saved radio

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They they rely on a lot of Hillsong Jesus culture, so I don't know I don't know what kind of fruit if any that will that will bear and in that particular radio station and Arts of those who interviewed us.

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They were really nice folks, you know, really really nice folks I think you would echo that they were agreeing with us as we were even talking about Hillsong Well, most of them

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I should say we're agreeing with us when we were talking about these things and the dangers of playing that music Except for there was one one gentleman who while you were being interviewed when it was your solo interview and you were mentioning

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Something about Hillsong. I ended up talking with the one of the guys there and he's like wow if we cut that out

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We don't have much music in our playlist and I was like you could find some other good stuff And we should never let the what the audience may want to listen to be

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The determining factor in what we're gonna play on a radio station. That's right. That's right

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Andrew But you know, it comes down to a function of supply and demand unfortunately for the vast majority of Churches and ministries out there or whatever the demand is.

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That's what they will supply and it's sad that that's the case But that is reality But yeah

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You shouldn't let popular demand dictate the content of your broadcast or your ministry you're teaching

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Because if you do that if you if you try to cater to popular demand Inevitably, you're gonna go into some really bad theological weeds because Most people don't want sound doctrine.

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That's not what they want They want things to tickle the ears. So It's always 100 % of the time a recipe for Disaster to cater to the prevailing thought and give people what they want to hear biblical reality

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Is is that what people want to hear is not what they need to hear I would rather than play

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Johnny Cash or you know Ricky Staggs or Mozart or something than Jesus culture and also we did appreciate the

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Ability to be able to communicate with them some some things that may have been hard for some of them to hear But they they seemed receptive.

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I think that that was really good. We got him after that we did get a little bit of a break for us to get some last -minute study and then we went to the church and did a

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Basically a Q &A with the with pastor Armand Church a rocker refuge Christian Church there in Manila And so we were able to spend some time with with that local church, which was really a blessing

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They said it was a blessing to them. I don't know about you I thought felt it was more of a blessing for us getting to know some of them and that was more of just a kind Of an informal just Q &A any kind of questions?

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It was a sweet time of fellowship with them and I love the people in that church You know Armand and Jackie his family and all the others a pastor

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John there as well and his family just here You're sweet people this precious precious

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Saints. They're So gracious so humble so willing to serve and put in tremendous hours in making all of this trip come together and two different conferences two main conferences that we did the type of Questions that we got led me to believe that this was a mature church this in America I had a lot of kind of fluff type questions when you do a

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Q &A with a church. They're not deep Theological type things the the folks there wanted to discuss the things of God you mentioned pastor

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Armand's Family, we're gonna actually play an interview with a member of his family who I believe impressed both of us very quickly

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And that would be his daughter Abigail. Yes. Yes, indeed I'll tell you Two points.

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Yes, you're right It's always interesting to me the the kind of questions that I'm asked in different churches

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You can generally kind of get a feel for the depth of the church Reflected in the kind of questions that are asked and the deeper the questions

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Of course that reflects on the deeper level of teaching at that particular church of the Christians, you know If there's something like that, you know, did

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Adam have a bellybutton or something like that? You know things not particularly deep but so any

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I thought yes Even though I can't recall any questions off the top of my head right now. I do remember that they were good questions

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Weighty questions are not shallow required some thinking was what couldn't answer them in one or two sentences.

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So, uh Yeah that reflected very well on the teaching there as did as you said

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Little Abigail 14 year old Abigail Armand and Jackie's daughter you and I both

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Andrew were just Blown away by Abigail and all three of their kids are as sweet as they can be.

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But of course Abigail is a little bit older She's the oldest of the three and so she can she's getting to the age where she can process through some of these

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Theological things and begin to integrate on and study on her own at a deep level

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You can just tell that those kids are taught very very well by their parents

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Jackie Norman and just yeah I guess you said we're gonna play a clip of her and I was just I put it up on YouTube, too

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I actually had a full interview with her that we did while we were down there So at the end of this episode,

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I'm gonna I'll play that interview that I had with her She runs a couple of pages on Facebook where you look at those pages

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You realize some of the maturity of her but I blown away One of the questions that came in that you and I had to answer was the question of how do you

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Encourage us to mature in our faith What type of things should we be studying to mature in our faith?

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And the one thing that I had mentioned is to study the attributes of God I explained how that helped me and how

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I think our theology is rooted in that and when you have a good understanding the attributes And nature of God your theology is going to be more accurate because a lot of the theology that's bad

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You end up finding any they're messing with the attributes of God or I think what is you refer as the perfections of God?

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We talked about that and the next day she comes up to me. We're at breakfast and she's she's just like, you know, mr

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Andrew that was that was so helpful about the attributes I I decided to get your card on the attributes of God and I used it in my devotions this morning and just prayed through those attributes and meditated on that and I'm like going wow, and she's only 14

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I Think she's applying things that she learns immediately and then she's talking and and she'll talk about this on the interview

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I have with her but she talks about how that made an impact on her and You and I were just very blown away by the maturity that that she had.

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Oh, yeah, absolutely Absolutely blown away. I don't think I've ever talked to a 14 year old who knows as much as she does and studies at the level that she does and and Just sweetest you can be to just feed us a button

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Well, and then we have the question of have you ever been around anyone that hands out more tracks than three of the kids?

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Actually, that's a whole other Whole other Patrick for this is one night. We were in in fact the last night

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We went to kind of have a meal together in a mall and we got all of the tracks that we had on us

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I'm my personal tracks I had and I think some years we gave them to those kids and they just they got rid of them

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I've got video Those kids going up around all these people sitting there on the staff that Abigail and Lena took the took the tracks and just went up and handed them all out

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Almost everybody took them in every restaurant. We went to they were handing out tracks and their track machines

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So the next day we we got up we did a conference for pastors. It was it was geared

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Specifically to pastors I did the morning sessions did three sessions on church discipline

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Which I expected when when pastor Arman said we're gonna we're gonna do a conference for pastors on church discipline

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I'm like, so we'll have about four or five people Right That room was packed.

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I forget what he said. I'm thinking there was 150 or so folks there I did the morning sessions on church discipline you did an afternoon session on You're based off of your book on on childhood conversion.

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Then we did a Q &A Well, you know for the that group that was there. I think that was really helpful

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I would honestly say I don't know too many times where we had Topics of church discipline and there was a packed room and and I'll throw this out there again, too

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Is the next day Abigail was asking me all kinds of questions one -on -one at breakfast about church discipline and how how would you implement this?

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And what about this sort of such a I'm really showing she was thinking through it but I was just very pleased with seeing the local pastors there having a desire to want to learn about church discipline and childhood conversion and Baptism and whether we should baptize children

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I didn't expect to have a lot of people there really was helpful in gearing up for the conference

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That was going to be coming that weekend, but we got a lot of good teaching in there regarding issues related to the church

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Specifically geared toward pastors. Yes, the room was packed there was

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What probably hundred and over a hundred people that were there for the church discipline, maybe 150?

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Most of them pastors or a good number of them pastors And yeah, they were very interested in what she had to say about church

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Just when I was really encouraged to see that because as you know, so very few churches

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Practice church discipline. I mean, it's almost Unheard of I would say 20 years ago probably hardly any churches did it thankfully by God's grace with the renewed interest in reform theology and doctrines of grace that's a

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Few more doing it, but it's still vast vast majority of churches don't but yeah there was a lot of interest in it pastors seemed very grateful for the teaching and Maybe jumping

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Sean here, but maybe we can talk about this a little bit later once we get to it But some of the criticism you and I got

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They quoted the main passage dealing with church discipline Matthew 18. Yes, there's some of These very people that quote

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Matthew 18 that go to churches that don't practice church discipline, which is More than a little ironic.

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So anyway, wait, are you are you saying not everybody loved having us down there? Yeah Not everybody, you know

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What do you and all men speak well of you? I think you and I are I think you and I are okay on that at least on that front goes

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Not everybody speaks. Well, that's yeah We were we are gonna get to that before too long.

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So so we had it we so we get there We have the radio interview first thing. We do a Q &A with the church that evening

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Next morning the whole day. We're doing this Basically conference for local pastors now the next day you and I went in different locations

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So you went for a radio interview and then you went to the mall to do some evangelism While you were at the radio interview,

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I was doing an open -air evangelism training And then I took a team of folks actually that all the folks that had been at that training

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We went to that same mall you were at They got a permit to amplify inside the mall

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Something I've never been able to do in the US, but we actually were evangelizing in the mall in the atrium

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I did an open -air training. It was it was maybe two sessions to one hour session. So it was kind of quick we

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Basically went over some would some things how to go about doing open -air evangelism

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How things that would help with evangelism in general? But then specifically we really want to focus on doing open -air because in the

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Philippines as you and I discovered There are issues with open -air because most of the guys who do open -air down there

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The first thing they do is ask for money before doing open -air or ask for money before you know, like forgiving gospel tracts and that made it where people were a little bit leery of the open -air because they were they were expecting us to be asking for money from them and So it was one of the things that I learned from that and it came in handy when

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I would did the open -air to mention That things were free But while I was doing that you were at a radio station, how'd that interview go?

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I went really well That interview was I think it went better than the first one that we did the very first morning we were that there was so we were in a different building different radio station and And The the lady who interviewed me is very very much like minded

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I made it up the elevator as far as we can go and then there was like three flights of steps

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That the elevator didn't go to and they had to put me in a put me in a chair and some guys got around Lifted me up in this chair and toted me up all those steps

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And they were they were a bit winded by the time we got to the top of that Understandably so so that super nice folks and just everybody there was great and Just couldn't do enough to help me whenever I needed help.

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And so I don't even think that interview has been aired yet I think they're gonna air it. I don't know sometime really soon, but it hasn't aired yet So by God's grace that that will bear some fruit as well

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But that that interview was done by someone I think exactly where we are Theologically and I'll try to see if I can grab all the links for those things and put them into the show notes if I If I can find them if they've aired afterwards after that you went to the mall and just handed out some tracks

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You know ended up going back to do some more research because you were doing some research Specifically on some of the local folks there and what we're gonna get to that in a bit

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I ended up taking the team of folks that we did the training with to the mall we had a box of Books booklets they were provided by wretched radio or I guess just wretched now because they're they're radio and TV, right?

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so They had donated a whole box of actually more than one box We had them for the conference, but we took a box there and as we

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I was doing the open -air one of the things I was already told was that the the Filipinos will not come up and talk even though we had a microphone in a and a box for the for people to dialogue with us

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Nobody actually came up it was just me and then a couple other brothers that were doing just preaching the gospel

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But then I realized we had this box of books and I just mentioned to folks here that these books are for you

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They're free. You could take them and After one person walked up then slowly a lot of those books disappeared people were were coming up during the preaching

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We had people recording it people that were seen as like four stories high people were Up upstairs looking down to hear the message.

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So I think it was good. The gospel went forth We got a lot of good one -on -one conversations And the next day was the

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Saturday for really that what we were there for was the conference at the Sky Dome The on discernment there was about I think they said 1100 people in attendance

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I personally was really impressed with the fact that the air conditioning unit stopped working very early on to that conference and Very few people left.

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I think the only people we heard of who left were Well, some female pastors that didn't like some of the things that were said about women preaching

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Yeah Yeah I remember from the first time

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I was in the Philippines four years ago that there's a really big issue in the Philippines it's not just Philippines here in the

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States all over the world, but Maybe a bit more acute in the Philippines than some other places of there being female pastors and so I dealt with that in my teaching and The first conference there in Manila the really big one where we had

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I think about eleven hundred people at him I show up for that conference and so I dealt with that and yeah, not not everyone was thrilled with that They were young in both

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Manila and Cebu The next conference there in Cebu further south of the

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Philippines there were some female pastors from what we were informed that attended and Yeah, I don't

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I don't I don't think they were very happy With what we had to say and we were both very clear on this in fact in the

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Q &A We were asked about it and you Andrew said if you have a female pastor a she's not a pastor

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B It's not a it's not a church But she's not a pastor and you don't have a real church And we were very black and white on that because the

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Bible is very black and white on that There should not be any confusion about this and So but I also have heard that maybe one or two of the lady pastors who were there

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Express some you know some sentiment that what we said gave them some calls and gave them some

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Something to think about so I hope that that's the case Well, there was even a question that came up in Cebu at the

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Cebu conference And when we talk about the Manila and Cebu we did the same conference on Saturday in Manila, and then we flew down to Cebu and did the same conference on a

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Tuesday So our yeah, it was a Tuesday there, and so we did the same basic messages

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But in two places, but in Cebu We were asked the question and Speak about being direct the question was something like you know if you have a female pastor

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How what do you do to transition to having a male pastor and if the second part of the questions of no men step up?

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What do you do and I was pretty direct? I you know I just said well if you you know to transition to a male pastor you fire the female pastor

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If no man steps up close the church And there was there was a group of female pastors that were just like ooh

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I didn't realize there were female pastors at the time But I just I think because I was so direct with it

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Maybe that was was the issue, but it did seem that that question was being asked my understanding was from someone who is

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Questioning her role as a female pastor and so that that may be why she she asked the question

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I do think it there in that aspect. There was the clarity in Which we spoke on that issue.

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I think Helped some folks to realize that this isn't just you know, first Timothy 2 12 and 14 is not some cultural issue.

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It's actually an issue based in the creation order We went through that when I taught on on how to interpret the

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Bible, and I think it was clear So let's actually go through the topics You started us off with a topic on the sufficiency of Scripture, which was essential

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I think to start off with because of the fact that we're talking about Discernment and it really set the tone

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Why why is the sufficiency of Scripture so important when we're going to talk about discernment like we did?

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Yeah, Andrew, I tell people all the time that the real battle over the Bible today is not so much over inerrancy

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In and of itself though some of those fires still smolder, but but where the real battle is being fought today

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And I understand that they're both of these are inextricably linked, but most people don't understand that But the where the real battles being fought today is over Sufficiency is

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God's word sufficient and we are losing that battle big time So my my first session in Manila and Sabu Talking about how

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God does and does not speak to us it's it's almost unquestioned today that God speaks to us and it's still small voice or inner impressions things like that and we've created a whole lingo and a

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Position that really is not supported by Scripture at all. We hear people say well I feel like God is saying such -and -such to me.

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I think God said such -and -such You know, you won't find that language anywhere in Scripture when

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God spoke it was crystal clear as to what he was saying There's no Ambiguity about what

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God said. So this whole, you know, I feel like God told me I think God told me that's that's a

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That is language that is foreign to Scripture. You won't see that anywhere Old or New Testament but if we allow for this that God is

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Speaking outside of Scripture in a direct quotable sense Well, hey, we've got an open canon of Scripture again

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Of course, whatever God says should be just as authoritative as any verse in the Bible But be what we're also saying is is that the

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Word of God is not enough Got it. It's not enough Even though God's Word tells us that it is enough that it is.

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The Word of God is Our all Scripture is inspired by God and it's profitable for doctrine for approved for correction for Instruction and righteousness that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished adequately fully equipped unto every good work and so God's Word tells us it's sufficient and yet in in how we kind of live out the

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Christian life, but the lingo that we use and Then things like well God spoke to me to tell me to do this to do that Pastor God spoke to me told me to tell you our church needs to go this direction

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And what we're saying is is that God's Word is not sufficient we need these Extra revelations from God God needs to speak to us

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Outside of Scripture so that we can really know what his will is for our lives And if we can't hear him speak to us then as Henry Blackaby says author of experience to God We are in truck quote.

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We are in trouble at the very heart of our Christian experience so Yeah, this is where the battle is being fought today is is

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God's Word sufficient and the vast majority of people who profess to be believers

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It's not Yeah, you know this this was a thing that I'm seeing on my my

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Twitter You know Reformation pages put out the meme the one that you referred to that I had said about the you know

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If you have a woman pastors, it's she's not a pastor It's not church, and there's a woman who's been going after me for days because she's upset that I would say this and I'm saying but what is first Timothy to say and and Myself and some others are saying this is talking about a creation order issue

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This is not culture, and she's like well I don't think it means that God speaks to me And it's so the thing is you see people that will reject the clear teaching of God's Word Because it doesn't speak to them and that's why

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I think it was so essential to start on the sufficiency of Scripture because When you started there you set the tone for for both of the conferences you set the tone to say our

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Authority is going to be the Word of God not what you feel now What do you think it says not what you want it to say?

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But what it actually says which which was what led into my topic?

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Which was how to interpret God's Word because once we realize that this the scriptures are the the thing that we look to as an authority to discuss this stuff

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Well now we we need to know how do we interpret it? And so I did a session on basically giving the basic principles a very practical session on how to interpret the

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Bible and I The feedback I got from that really was unexpected I did not get

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I was not expecting so many people to come up and and still emailing and Sending messages on Facebook on Twitter even as even as of yesterday

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Getting messages saying that that encouraged people to study the Bible that they now feel that they have some tools and some training to know how to rightly handle it because in some of those churches that you and I Talked about like like victory and and the the other word of faith churches g12

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They they don't give their people the tools to interpret because if they did These people would realize that their pastors are not teaching accurately, right?

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Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I agree Andrew. There's probably no better Compliment or no, no better word of encouragement.

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I could possibly receive from someone and then to hear them say After hearing you teach you have made me want to study my

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Bible more you made me want to go deeper into the scriptures It was really nothing else

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There's nothing better. You could say to me There's no no thing that you can say that will encourage me more Than that right there because that's what we want people to do that.

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That is the good fruit that We pray that God will will bear in in our ministries

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As long as we handle God's Word rightly teach it rightly and conduct ourselves in such a way that brings honor and glory to Christ That's what he's going to do in in any ministry that is grounded in the

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Word of God That's when we rightly understand God's Word. It should create enough a desire to Study it further.

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And so yeah, I mean If we can we can go we can go all year long

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Yeah, and we had many we had many now granted it I mean, there's there were 1100 people at the first conference in Cebu I think they said there was 250 at that one and that was by the way that was on a

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Tuesday So this is a workday and they they filled the room.

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They actually had to cut off Registration, but the third topic that we had was where you started getting into dealing with Discernment itself

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So and you did this in two parts you covered two things one. You're really covering discernment.

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How do we discern you covered? issues of people that we needed to be discerning you dealt with people that were

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You basically dealt with some things with the Roman Catholic Church and people that were compromising on that. So you did two sessions on that Let's talk about those now that those sessions are the ones that probably brought the most

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Controversy for us or people that were unhappy with us because you named names and I mean you name more names than I did.

31:32

I'll grant you that You're a bolder man than me no But you did you name some names and let's be honest you quoted people and people were upset that you did that So I want to get into the controversy later

31:48

But at this point just to say that you did provide quote direct quotations from people

31:54

We had audio from them. We you played the video clips so what was the goal in in what were you trying to teach as far as discernment and A second question

32:05

I want from you is why do you did you feel it? Necessary to name some of the names of folks that were local there versus just mentioning

32:13

The people we deal with here that are in word of faith or an AR. Sure Well, the discernment is vitally vitally important for the believer today.

32:23

It's not an option It is a mandate all of us are Commanded by Scripture to exercise discernment

32:30

Paul says in first Thessalonians 521 that we are to test all things And hold fast to that which is good we are to examine everything through the lens of Scripture.

32:40

It's not an option it's our mandate and What makes false teaching so pernicious is that not everything that false teachers teach is

32:51

False some of it is right Benny Hinn is a false teacher by every single biblical criterion of the term

32:58

If Benny Hinn is not a false teacher, then the term has no meaning and yet Benny Hinn not everything that he says is wrong.

33:06

A lot of places is right, but it's that truth mixed with error. That is so profoundly dangerous

33:13

And so if we don't exercise discernment, we don't search the scriptures to see if these things are so per Acts chapter 17 verse 11

33:21

Then we will ingest Poison right along with a little bit of truth and a little bit of poison in killing

33:30

It's very very dangerous and it can stump it can stump someone's grim We saw this with several people who who were in these churches that victory and g12 that were

33:42

They just haven't been growing spiritually and they suddenly realized what they've been missing So it hurts the person who's under the teaching as well

33:50

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely and Yeah, by God's grace. We've heard many comments from people as a result of the two conferences in the

33:58

Philippines They their eyes were open. They realized they were they've been in bad churches and not being taught.

34:04

Well Like maybe maybe for the first time they're actually they actually heard good sound teaching him

34:09

And once you get a taste of it if you're truly a believer if you're in drop by the Holy Spirit once you get a taste and doctrine then

34:18

You're gonna want more you're gonna you're gonna your eyes will be open And you're gonna you're gonna be asking where can

34:25

I get more of this? Where are you gonna speak it out? And so we saw that happen in the Philippines Praise the

34:31

Lord and in the S to your other question. Why did I name names? I did I named some names of some local prosperity preachers there false teachers there and I did so for two reasons.

34:46

Well, I named names because it's biblical to do that There is absolutely a biblical precedent for calling out false teachers by name the

34:55

Apostle Paul did so he named Hymenaeus and they played us Peter did so John did so So there is a biblical precedent for calling out false teachers by name

35:06

It's not something that we should do likely, you know We shouldn't call somebody a false teacher if they differ with us on some relatively minor

35:16

Secondary issue, you know, that's not what we're talking about here. But if they if they routinely compromise the gospel compromise fundamental doctrines of historical

35:25

Christianity, then yes, we are It is our responsibility to call them out by name

35:32

We've got a war in the flock of wolves and sheep's clothing now four years ago when I was in the Philippines I've taught on much the same subject matter, but I didn't name any of the

35:43

Well, I think I made one break, but I didn't really name any of the native

35:49

Filipino indigenous Filipino false teachers I stuck with any hand and Kenneth Copeland and Joyce Meyer and Joseph Prince There's a prince is pretty close to the

35:57

Philippines, but this time I named more of the Filipino false teachers

36:06

Bo Sanchez Joey funny Joey Bonaparte. Oh Yeah The joke there's

36:15

I had trouble pronouncing his name like basically throughout the whole conference Yeah Yeah, both man says

36:24

Joey Bonifacio Jim Lapoon There's there's several of them that I mentioned.

36:35

We mentioned Robert Morris Yeah, Robert Morris is here in the

36:40

States, but he's quite popular in the Philippines. Oh Who else

36:46

John Paul Herrera? So in that really it really resonated with the folks here there because they know these names, you know

36:54

These are very very popular preachers and some large word faith flash in they are slash prosperity

37:04

Flash thinker sensitive churches in the Philippines and so when I named these guys their ears really perked up because they knew the names, you know, and Church like Victory Christian Fellowship and some others.

37:18

So yeah, I did that and and even though it made a lot of people mad there there were many many more people who are very very grateful and So, you know,

37:28

I When winning when I after the first conference in Manila And I named these names publicly and then the son of one of the prosperity preachers the son of Joey Bonifacio David Bonifacio, he tagged me on Twitter and just started blasting me the folks that we were with Who had hosted us

37:49

Jackie and Armand and Pastor John and others at Rock of Refuge Church good church

37:56

You know, I think it kind of took them a little bit by surprise and they were initially maybe a little concerned but But you know, they stuck to their guns.

38:05

They were grateful for it and I told him I quoted Thomas Fuller a Puritan Preacher and he said if I speak what is false.

38:14

I must answer for it If truth it will answer for me.

38:20

And so that's that's what we have to do. We speak the truth and We trust

38:26

God with the results whatever those results are as long as we speak the truth we should have a blessing of having a clear conscience and we trust

38:33

God to do and and You know what? Let's do I want to jump into the the controversy week that was created

38:39

I'll just mention my last talk that I did was going through the book of Jude and I looked through the entire book

38:45

There's 28 characteristics of a false teacher in the book of Jude and we went through basically, I went through the entire book line by line and Described each of these characteristics that we see of false teachers and that identified with a lot of people because one person came up to Me and said, you know

39:02

I was in a really bad church and I think my previous pastor had every one of those characteristics.

39:08

That's that was really bad but that was that was really helpful for folks to see a way to be able to take a step back and Look at the characteristics of a false teacher and then realize some of these people that you were mentioning and I was mentioning

39:21

Have these characteristics So before we get into the controversy,

39:27

I'll just I'll open up if there's anything on that message you wanted to bring up and then Let's get into what what we are dealing with online.

39:34

No, you did a really good job with it and You're right that false teachers have hallmarks.

39:40

Don't they they have kind of markers that we can look for in the whole book of Jude really deals with false teachers and it's kind of like It's like Jude was written for us so that we can know how to recognize false teachers

39:54

And it is interesting though as Jude opens his short little letter that it's not a task that he wanted to do

40:01

He would rather have talked about the gospel, but it was a task that was necessary to do so Yeah, I thought it was very very helpful

40:09

I myself learned some things and I thought you did a great job with it. And and let me also say

40:15

I Hear a lot from people. Oh, well, you know, why don't you just preach the guy? Why don't you just talk about the truth?

40:21

You might focus on the negative. Well, it's not that we focus on the negative, but back to the matter is There's 27 books in the

40:27

New Testament Andrew 26 of them deal at some level with false doctrines false teaching false teachers

40:38

It's a very prominent thing in the New Testament The only book in the New Testament that does not deal with it is by Lehman and that But even by Lehman deals with a few that's controversial and it's all right slavery

40:51

So, um, you know, so if you're if you're wanting to get away from controversy stay away from the New Testament Yeah, that was something you said you said that and I was like wow

41:02

I didn't think about that that the only book in the New Testament that doesn't address in some way false teachers was by Lehman I was like wow, and I started looking that up and I was like wow, yeah

41:11

That's that's true. I mean, it's a pretty important point. So so we we ended up as you mentioned

41:17

David Bonifacio Basically said hey, it's they sound like it was his dad's birthday and we were we were doing a character assassination

41:25

You know, I literally this just came in before we started recording. I got a message. So this is fresh

41:31

This is this we've now been a couple weeks removed from that conference and we're still getting messages

41:37

I I had someone that just contacted me and said You know, hey pastor I admire the way you stood up to David Bonifacio on Justin Peters thread

41:47

You're one of the few brave souls willing to risk getting ostracized for speaking the truth, which is very rare these days and there was something that that you and I both had a different way of dealing with him and He was the one that really sparked stuff coming after us.

42:04

He then later took the post down and Tried putting it up in different places in different ways where maybe we wouldn't respond and I kept responding the same way we'll get to what

42:13

I did, but there was some reaction from these folks and There was an accusation that they made and I wanted to address this because this is something that I Noticed I didn't know you and I talked about this.

42:28

I noticed that this is a very very common way of having false teachers

42:34

Deal with these things because what they what they're doing is they're basically trying to prevent any

42:40

Discussion where they can play the victim card and they make you look like, you know, you're being the bad person

42:46

So what is it that he was what accusation? Was it that they were doing other than saying you were mischaracterizing them and or a character assassinating them?

42:56

What is it that they kept saying we didn't do and we should have done before we said anything in public

43:02

Yeah, they said they They said that we should have come to them first privately before we said anything publicly

43:11

About their false. Of course, they wouldn't call it false teaching, but we would Bible it But yeah

43:16

And if they wish to have gone to them privately first if we had any questions before we talked about them publicly and they said cited

43:22

Matthew 18, of course, which I find highly ironic because These people who quoted

43:29

Matthew 18 go to churches that never actually practice Matthew 18, but Yeah, that's what they said that they wanted now.

43:37

Let's be fair So folks know one of the things we did do we were trying to work with the local

43:43

Churches down in the Philippines before we even got there Months before we got there and we were trying to set up a meeting

43:51

Where we can meet with these people that we were going to name We wanted to be able to talk to them about what we're gonna say at the conference we tried

44:00

They didn't all accept some it's hard to get a hold of these people there You know, you send off an email through the website.

44:06

They may never see it But we we did do some attempt to try to set up a meeting beforehand.

44:13

However Let me ask you this question because this is how you answered some of the folks. Is there a requirement to Reach out to them privately

44:24

For what they say publicly and you and I address this a lot in suboo in the Q &A because it came up a couple times

44:31

Probably because of what happened in Manila. Is there a requirement because this is the thing theology gals

44:36

Just did an episode with mops on mops international and addressing some things and the president mops contact him and the very first thing is why didn't you come to me privately and Colleen had said she was so thrilled when she listened to our conference in suboo because the very things you and I said is what

44:52

How she was responding because you're like, that's exactly the same thing Do you need to go to them privately for what they say publicly?

44:59

Can you quote them or do you have to go to them first? No, you don't have to go to them first for several reasons

45:06

Matthew 18 Of course is dealing with church discipline how you play that out

45:11

That's the church discipline and it really is dealing with the local church, you know Local church context and none of these people that we talked about a part of our local church obviously and the other thing though is

45:25

You were not slandering them because a slander is based for slander to be

45:31

Slander it is defined as saying false statements for the purpose of damaging someone's reputation

45:38

You are quoting these people so when we look at this we have to look at what slander actually is slander is when someone says a false statement for the purpose of ruining someone's reputation

45:52

You Justin when you were naming some of these names you were quoting what they actually said in public this is public and one of the things you kept telling folks was

46:01

Your public ministry would you say in public can be criticized what they say in public can be criticized because it's a public ministry

46:08

If they were trying to say that you quoting them was slander and character assassination

46:14

That's not true. You pointed that out Why is that important to point out to folks because you you wanted to make that point to express them?

46:22

What was wrong with what they were saying? Yes Well, right. They used us of slander and a character assassination, even though all

46:30

I did was quote them and so as you astutely pointed out if quoting someone is slander than the

46:37

Then you must have a really low view of the person who's been quoted. But so so all we do is quote them so these people that we

46:46

Criticized or critiqued they have public ministries And if you have a public ministry your your ministry is open to public critique as this mine

46:55

As is yours you and I both have public ministries and you and I both received our fair share of public

47:02

Critique Unjustified but Yeah, so it's public ministers are open to public critique and that's that's just the way it is the way it should be quite

47:14

Honestly, so we didn't slander anyone Slander is a sin Speaking the truth is not simple.

47:21

Obviously now if I had gotten up and misquoted them intentionally if I had gotten up and That these people teach things that they really do not teach then there's a problem then

47:34

I'm in sin But that is not what we did We are simply following the biblical mandate to test everything through the lens of Scripture To be

47:46

Bereans and to warn people about wolves and sheep's clothing. That's what we were doing And I had a different tact of how

47:53

I wanted to deal with it, which was You were you were trying to point out hey looks this and this is public ministry

48:00

This is we're both open to critique. I just quoted him. There was nothing slanderous about that no character assassination, but I chose a different tact that I really wanted to get across because I Think there's a hypocrisy that we see in these people

48:14

I had it recently where I commented on something about Beth Moore when she was preaching publicly and someone said well

48:20

Have you gone to her privately? Well, give me her number. I'll give her a call I'd be happy to but the reality is is that when people do things in public and then people say oh

48:29

You got to go to them privately. I Address this in Sabu, you know in 1st Corinthians 5 we see that Paul doesn't say oh go privately when someone's sleeping with his father's wife

48:38

No, you put him out of the church immediately There shouldn't be any delay in this because it's a public sin and it's it's out there in public now

48:47

One of the things I find so interesting is they wanted us to go to them privately and the question

48:53

I kept asking over and over and and this is why I think David Bonifu so removed his post is

48:59

The fact that I kept saying why have you not come to us privately? We'll meet you Wednesday night because you and I were gonna land in from Sabu we were gonna land and we were willing to set up a meeting with these people to discuss what was said at the conference and They each of them there was about three people and each of them refused to meet with us

49:18

Wednesday And one guy said he would as long as like we went right from the airport I was supposed to drive to his location being that I have no car.

49:27

I don't know the area You know and I had there wasn't a time. He was he said an exact time that wouldn't have allowed for it, but We we were willing to meet with folks but the issue is

49:41

They never met with us and they said things in public and this is the thing that I think

49:46

Upset many of them and made David have to take his post down and his brother Joe Joseph who posted something and And I believe took it down.

49:54

It's because the hypocrisy They're out there saying that you and I did not go to them privately

50:01

Before saying something publicly and they're saying that in public having never come to us in private

50:07

If they feel that that is a rule that must be followed then they should follow it you and I don't hold to that view

50:13

You and I don't think it's a sin to quote someone in what they say in public

50:18

But when they start saying as they said they said you and I Parachuted in and We were doing it for money and which was very interesting because the one of the guys that said that you and I Parachuted in for money.

50:31

We were just looking to make all this money they calculated how many people were at the conference and there was a money that was you know asked for for Registration because they had to actually rent the

50:41

Sky Dome and they provided lunch and They said we did it for money and I said really

50:48

Justin and I were not getting paid for this. We came here because of the need we flew on money

50:54

That was raised from our donors in the States. So we came out not Asking for anything not expecting anything

51:01

We paid our own way and the interesting thing is then the conversation changed into well, you should get paid

51:07

Well, that's not the point if we agree that we're gonna come here to help out we're gonna agree to that But I it was amazing how he ignored the fact that the accusation was you and I did it

51:17

Because of the money we were trying to make money And then when he finds out we weren't making any money all of a sudden the tune changes and he ignores the fact

51:26

That what he said is wrong You were accused of which was kind of funny

51:33

David Bonifacio, Bonifacio. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing his name. It's just I Bonifacio I'm finally getting it right as now

51:41

I messed you up and you can't get it right but David Bonifacio made the accusation against you looking for money because you have a donate button on your website and I you know took a screenshot of his church's website and circled where it has a big give button and They have a link to So it somehow it's it's wrong for you to ask for donations in the states to pay to fly your way to the

52:06

Philippines and not get paid for that, but it's it's okay if he does it in his church

52:14

Right. Yeah hypocrisy at its finest and And yeah, you're right

52:20

Andrew. We went on this trip At our own expense, you know, they folks there that did pay for our hotel and our meals but our plane ticket

52:30

You and I both paid for out of our own pocket gladly. So because it's an honor to be able to have these opportunities and And yeah,

52:41

I mean sure I do have a donate button on my on my website as do you but the thing is

52:49

Well, hey neither one of us is living out the hog We're not shopping for a private jet

52:56

But but the reason the reason we do make it available for people to support our ministries and I've never asked for it

53:04

I'll never ask for it, but I make it that option available simply but simply so I can go on trips like this

53:11

I can go to the Philippines and In preach at my own expense I can go to Ecuador I can go to Uganda I can go to India Take these trips at my own expense and be able to reach some of these folks who can't afford to pay my way, but they're just as need meeting and just as deserving is the truth as Folks who can pay for my expenses.

53:35

So so that's why the donate button there. I guarantee you we're not We're not driving around in Lamborghinis Like like the like the pastor there at the g12 is doing yeah yeah, and you know the church was so to be upfront with folks the church the

53:53

Hosts that put this together were gracious enough to allow us to sell some of our books there So that we could recoup some and you know, it was how it didn't cover

54:02

It wasn't gonna cover all the costs of flights. We had donors that helped All right So so you and I were just talking really to wrap some things up when we got some of this

54:11

Criticism the the issue is is that what we often see with false teachers and those who support them is

54:17

They want to set up a standard For their critics that they don't follow themselves

54:23

You pointed out the hypocrisy that these folks usually don't practice church discipline in their church, but they want you to practice it online.

54:31

I Think that's the same thing applies when they're criticizing us in public They're they're saying that we are slandering that we're doing it for money that we're proud arrogant and and all the thing

54:42

I mean when when you're referring to Motivations and why people do things that's judging their motives that actually is sin because it's not by a righteous standard because you don't know

54:52

Another person's heart unless you think you're God So we shouldn't be judging motives

54:58

They were judging our motives. They were they were judging things that they don't know and Even when they're shown the evidence because we're talking about the the finances the some of the fact the people who organized the thing in Cebu were like hey, we didn't pay them anything

55:13

I mean, I think all all we got from the folks in Cebu is a bag of some really good snacks I finished up like all those mangoes like literally

55:22

I think I did two bags of mangoes as soon as I got home with my wife. We demolished them But that was that was it and they were like, hey, we we didn't give anything

55:31

They don't change the fact that they're gonna keep criticizing you There is but they were judging our motives.

55:37

They were misaligning our character We were not doing that. We were quoting them and What they didn't want to do is set up a standard for you and I as the critiques of them that they don't hold to Themselves and this is

55:53

I think very common we see with false teachers and their followers. Yeah.

55:58

Yeah, that's exactly right That's exactly right Andrew. Unfortunately, their followers are so Poorly taught that they don't even have the ability to Understand these issues right way.

56:09

They they have their their theology is entirely constructed off of little down bites and tidbits and in a few verses taking way out of context and In in woe to them.

56:21

Well, we'll be unto the these false teachers that that lead their people astray There's a reason

56:28

That James says let not many of you desire to be teachers my brethren knowing that we will encourage stricter judgment

56:34

I would I would shudder to be in their shoes on Judgment Day Have to give an account for how they have taken

56:42

God's Word and twisted it to suit their own personal desire So yeah, all we did was quote them a prescription the truth.

56:50

There's nothing slanderous about that We judge no one's motives. In fact, that's something

56:55

I even teach in my seminar Sincerity that you these false teachers some of them are sincere, but you know, it doesn't matter

57:03

Sincerity is not the issue truth is the issue So let's try to end on a good note with some of the positive feedback that we've gotten

57:12

From here now. I've gotten message one of the other messages that I got Just two days ago was someone that messaged me and said

57:21

I left I left church. I'm sorry I left the church my family was going to mainly because two women inched were in charge were very had left this

57:32

Plots making political making politics more than Jesus So we see that they were here's here's someone that they left they so the teaching that the on women's roles

57:45

You Know I Had a comment here and I don't know if you kept some of the comments that you want to to go over But here was one that you know said hey brother

57:57

Andrew. Thank you for reaching us here in Cebu that day God opens the open the heart of My brethren who practiced the

58:07

Pentecostal theology and changed to reform theology Thank you and glory be to God that he brought you and Justin here

58:16

You're you're now the talk of the town in our church Please pray for us that our senior pastor will also change.

58:25

God bless and you know, this is this is these are some of these people are people that go to Victory Church a very big, you know church their word of faith and a our church

58:39

Did you what are some of the the the you know the feedback so you've gotten so far Yes, I don't have any pulled up in front of me right now that I can read but but I have received quite a bit

58:51

Very encouraging feedback much the same way that people's eyes have been open We've heard

58:57

I've heard a number of reports of people who are going to whether it's victory Christian fellowship or CTF One of these other wonky churches, they

59:06

I'm gonna start looking for a good church. I've got to find a good church Praise the Lord wonderful That's what that's what you should do and and you shouldn't stay in a bad church

59:15

If you if you all of a sudden realize you're in a bad church get out don't pass go don't collect $200 get out and Find a good church.

59:24

Okay. See what one of the questions you were asked Was and it'd be a good time for you to answer it here for folks is the question

59:32

But what if I want to stay in this church to be a missionary you had a very good answer for that I should also mention that you and I had way more questions with 1100 people than we could answer and that they are gonna send us all of the questions and you and I are gonna do

59:48

One or more episodes that it what it might take We we had promised we would answer all the questions or we were gonna try to and so we will be doing that But I want you to answer that question because there are some people who think well

01:00:00

I should stay here because now that I see the light I should stay here and try to teach others

01:00:06

Is that wise counsel? No, it's not and I know many people Sincerely believe that or they want to do that, but it's not wise counsel for a couple reasons one

01:00:15

The congregation generally speaking is not going to rise to a level of spiritual maturity

01:00:21

Above that of its leadership. It's just not going to happen When it does happen to individuals who may be sitting in the congregation

01:00:31

They and they do exceed the spiritual maturity of the leadership of that particular church Then they start getting empty and they start looking around they realize they're not being fed and they start looking for a good church

01:00:43

That's the pattern. That's what we expect But also, you know for people who would say what

01:00:48

I know this is not a good church But I want to be a missionary. I want to be a source of life in this church

01:00:54

You're not going to change the church. Okay, you're just not You're not gonna you're not gonna

01:01:01

Change everybody in the leadership of that church. It's just not gonna happen. You need to be in a real church under biblically qualified elders

01:01:13

Where you can really serve the body of Christ. So if you're if you realize you're in a bad church

01:01:19

Okay, if you're in a bad church, you're not in a church You need to get out of it's not a real church. If your elders are not biblically qualified, then you're not even in a real church

01:01:28

So what is the biblical mandate for Christians? We need to be in a real church We need to be in a good doctrinally sound church.

01:01:34

So the very fact that you would stay there is in and of itself Sinful you would actually even though your motives may be right.

01:01:42

You're gonna be sinning by staying in that church So you need to get out of the bad church into a good church because that's what

01:01:49

Christ wants for you that's what Christ wants for every believer in a good doctrinally sound church biblically qualified elders and Then and only then can you truly?

01:02:01

Serve the body of Christ and you truly use the gifts that God has given you to edify the body

01:02:07

So yeah, and don't say you know, I I hope that this was

01:02:13

This podcast was an encouragement to folks who were there in the Philippines Maybe maybe some who weren't who have tried to correct some false teachers and seen some of the same critics make it making the same critiques to them as As I mentioned with theology gals and the mops international when they pointed out things

01:02:31

They said all they did was quote them if it's a problem, then you know, you shouldn't have said those things But I think that this is a pattern we see with folks.

01:02:39

And so maybe it is encouraging to some people I really want to say that this I think

01:02:45

I can speak for you as well on this Justin I think you and I got far more out of this Far more of a blessing than we were to others.

01:02:53

It was it really was a great experience Great to see that it was so well received that we're still weeks later, you know, even even

01:03:04

Someone who went to victory we preach we did the conference on Saturday. They went to victory that next day on Sunday They went the following Sunday and it was on that following Sunday that on Monday They contacted me and said

01:03:18

I can't stay in victory I need to go and find a new church and it's still having the impact and you can watch at need

01:03:26

God on Facebook They have a need God the need God Philippines has all of the the conference messages from Sabu So you can hear what we said if you are saying oh, you're slandering these guys

01:03:39

You can actually watch and hear exactly what we say and you're gonna see that what we did was quote what they said or played video clips of what they said and Therefore if if there's something wrong in doing that then the wrong is not in our part for quoting them

01:03:58

It's wrong in there what they said is wrong and the people must know that that they're saying it's wrong

01:04:03

And so it was a great event I was I was glad that even with in the one in the sky dome where the air conditioning wasn't working

01:04:11

Very few people left even at the end you and I were up there for just just a couple of minutes taking photos with people

01:04:17

Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you really what many just two or three and Yeah, like two or three hours

01:04:30

Smiling so much Yeah, every time we would take a picture and someone walk away and I would

01:04:36

I would almost like intentionally try to frown just just You know my favorite picture and I actually threw it on my

01:04:45

Facebook walls as the as the you know as the cover for Facebook is

01:04:51

Jackson grabbed a picture just at the end all the all the photos were done We did all the book signings

01:04:57

And he just grabbed a picture of you and I just sitting there and we were both just smiling and and he said

01:05:03

After a long day, they're still they're still all smiles and it was just a great candid picture that neither one of us even knew a picture was being taken and it really

01:05:13

I like that picture because it really captures you and I were just thrilled to be able to serve

01:05:18

God there in the Philippines and Yes, there was some critiques and criticism

01:05:23

But that only is saying that the things that were taught had an impact.

01:05:29

It's right You throw you throw a stone into a pack of cats The one that screeches is the one that you hit we hit some

01:05:38

More you than me Yeah, yeah, yeah Because of the nature of our talks, but yeah, yeah, we are we hit on that scratch for sure we we did but You know, it goes back to what

01:05:54

I said a little while ago You speak the truth and you trust God for the results and you trust God's Word will do what it is

01:06:01

God has decreed it to do and it will God's Word is infallible. That means it will do

01:06:06

What God has decreed it to do and so that's one of the one of the blessings of?

01:06:13

Having a high view of the sovereignty of God is you know, the results are not up to you. Thank goodness

01:06:18

The results are not up to me not up to you We would fail miserably they were you just you just present the truth and watch

01:06:26

God do his thing and I said in one of my talks you and I Don't look forward to having to address these issues and and name names and things like that We are not looking forward to it.

01:06:38

We don't want to do that We feel like Jude compelled to do it We'd rather talk about our common salvation, but these things have to be addressed and that's why we do it

01:06:48

It's not that we we would much prefer that all these false teachers would stop teaching false teaching So there wouldn't be a need for it

01:06:54

But until that time comes We have to protect those that are

01:06:59

God's children from false teachers because they pray on false teachers I actually had said that I think one of the reasons that the

01:07:06

NAR which I would consider as a cult is so dangerous is Because unlike other cults drove witnesses

01:07:13

Mormons and others they end up leaving the Christian circles and being on their own but the

01:07:19

NAR isn't they still want to stay within the Christian circles to pray on the Christians and That's the problem because there's there's a blurring of the lines and that's why we have to stand up and say no

01:07:31

This is not what the Bible says. That's right. That's right

01:07:36

Andrew. That's an excellent point You know Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't even claim to be

01:07:42

Christian that they're their own thing But these guys word -faith NAR they do make that claim and not to Bring up a sore subject from a couple years ago

01:07:54

That's why I don't see Islam as the as the spiritual threat that I do

01:08:01

Word -faith NAR. Why? Because it's outside of Christianity The false teachers claim to be within the body of Christ Mormons Don't make that quite not not not in the in the in the true biblical sense

01:08:21

Jehovah's Witnesses don't they're their own thing and Muslims sure don't Muslims Muslims make that claim far less than Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses so So the word -faith

01:08:32

NAR they do claim to be Evangelical Mormons don't Jehovah's Witnesses don't

01:08:37

Muslims obviously don't Are they a threat in a different way? Of course Are they a threat physically to the safety of believers in different parts of the world?

01:08:47

Of course, they are I've been to some of these places. I know that but But they don't they don't believe in the deity of Christ And so they don't fit the what the how the

01:08:59

New Testament describes false teachers. They're not wolves and keeps clothing They're just wolves. So long.

01:09:05

Anyway, I digress. Yeah. No, I think you're right and we really were blessed to be there and I think that It was something that was helpful for the body of Christ there in the

01:09:16

Philippines I hope it does have an impact in a good way. Look folks if if there's folks listening that are in the

01:09:21

Philippines Maybe you're still in victory or G G 12 or one of these others. You can reach out to us

01:09:27

We'll be happy to try to explain why we have such concern. You can you can check us out on Twitter I'm at Andrew Rappaport or you can go to at Justin Peters men on Twitter.

01:09:40

We're both on Twitter where you can reach us there You can reach me at striving for attorney dot org. You can reach

01:09:46

Justin at Justin Peters dot org So we have contact pages on there if you are having concerns if you have issues that you're still struggling with if you think that we were wrong in in what was said or if you think that Somehow we were not understanding the issues

01:10:05

We'd be happy to correct if we're wrong and because we have a disagreement doesn't mean we're wrong if we're saying that this is how we come to the conclusion is what scripture says someone is saying that the

01:10:15

Catholics that a Catholic teacher is a man of God when the

01:10:20

Catholics don't have a biblical view of Salvation they don't believe in justification alone

01:10:28

Right and invite by grace alone. So when you have that This is what scripture says it doesn't matter that you want to build bridges with other things with other religions look if you want to build a bridge with a false religion and there's similarity that you guys have

01:10:49

The scriptures very clear that light has nothing to do with darkness. You don't partner with people light and darkness

01:10:56

So if you're partnering with darkness if you're partnering with a false religion and you see this as good

01:11:02

The only conclusion I could come to is you don't have the Holy Spirit and you are dark and that's why you can get along I would not be able to do ministry with a

01:11:12

Roman Catholic or a Muslim Why because they need the gospel they need to get saved and for for Joey Bonifacio To not be concerned for Bo Sanchez's salvation

01:11:26

Either says he doesn't understand what Catholic theology is Now maybe it's that Bo Sanchez is gonna say he doesn't believe in Catholic theology

01:11:35

Because you can't believe in Roman Catholic theology and be saved You can be

01:11:41

Roman Catholic and not understand the theology that's possible but you can't believe in Roman Catholic theology and be saved and if Joey Bonifacio is listening to to Bo Sanchez and is not concerned for his soul then the only thing

01:11:58

I could do as someone who's an observer on the outside is wonder is he saved and That seems so hard to say

01:12:07

But if I love this man, then I would tell him if I could that this is a concern because what's more important?

01:12:14

That his feelings get hurt or that he's right with God I would rather his feelings get hurt and he gets right with God then worry about his feelings and he spends eternity in a lake

01:12:24

Of fire and that's I think the heart that Justin and I would have we don't want to see these people in The flames and that's why the conference was called snatch them from the flames

01:12:34

We were looking to try to snatch some who are in the flames of false teaching as Jude says

01:12:40

So that they would be taught biblically and be on the right with God on a right path Justin any last words that you have?

01:12:48

Well, I just want to say again What a blessing it was to be on this trip with you I thank you very much for all of the help you give me your good brother a good friend and folks

01:12:58

If you're listening, I can tell you Andrew is is a very very selfless Person and a good brother.

01:13:05

I'm honored to counting as a friend and honored to be a co -laborer in the world with him. So That's it brother praise the

01:13:13

Lord and may God bless you and all of our listeners and may he be glorified in and you were

01:13:19

Okay, when I stole your scooter and left you standing there and ran off, right? Yeah. Yeah All right, well

01:13:29

I appreciate you coming on and we're gonna do another episode in the future when we get the questions and you and I'll do some

01:13:35

Some Q &A and folks be checking out Justin's podcast did a

01:13:40

K if you don't know how to spell it That's okay. Just in your podcast app just search for Justin Peters and that's gonna be starting up pretty soon

01:13:47

So be looking forward to that and be praying for Justin what we you know

01:13:53

We mentioned that he wasn't feeling well on the way down And I know you have not mentioned this at all.

01:13:58

So I'll get the last word in here But you're there was some health concerns that you had with your arm just losing some strength in it and so be praying for Justin as he's gonna be meeting with some doctors to find out exactly what's happening there and and that the doctors would have wisdom and and be able to rectify that if that's the

01:14:20

Lord's will but again, we thank those who are there and Next up we're gonna have a really special interview and you do not want to miss it

01:14:30

Just want to let you know those of you who've been listening and we mentioned it both Justin and I that we went to the

01:14:37

Philippines purely on donations from others and that is how we can do these things and Therefore we want to appeal to you if you consider helping to donate so we could do more trips like this

01:14:49

I do have some folks over in Japan that would like to know if we can come over there to do some

01:14:55

Training in preparation for the 2020 Olympics. They would like to be trained to evangelize knowing that Tens or maybe even hundreds of thousands of people will be coming to their city and they want to get the gospel out

01:15:09

But they cannot afford to get us over there or me over there So we need help to be able to do trips like this in places that can't afford it not only in the smaller churches that we try to target but also overseas and That takes more so if you would consider donating that would be of great help you can go to striving for eternity org slash

01:15:33

Donate and you can donate today. Now if you donate at least two dollars a month

01:15:38

We will send you a free copy of what do we believe if you donate five dollars a month?

01:15:43

You'll get a copy of what do we believe plus what do they believe if you donate? $10 a month you will get the two books already mentioned and on the origin of kinds by dr

01:15:55

Anthony Svestro, if you donate $20 a month You will get those three books plus the book sharing the good news with Mormons And if you could donate $25 a month

01:16:06

What we're looking to do is try to get missionaries that we could get them equipment pay for their hosting and get them instead of Writing newsletters to actually do a podcast to update their churches something we have in mind

01:16:20

So if you could help out in this way, it would be a great help Of course, we're not going to turn away hundred two hundred five hundred dollars a month

01:16:27

We'd be able to take that as well gladly, but you could go to striving for eternity dot org

01:16:34

Slash donate and there you'd be able to donate on patreon or paypal There's an address you could send a check to if you choose to do that Thanks in advance for any donations that you provide

01:16:48

Okay now is time for the interview that we Mentioned earlier both dress and I were very impressed with this young lady

01:16:55

Abigail who runs Reformation pages She's 14 years old and we were quite impressed with her maturity

01:17:02

I hope you are too and check out her pages at Reformation pages on Facebook and also she has a

01:17:10

Twitter so check those out follow her All right, so I have a special guest with me for this section of the rap report she is the person behind Reformation pages

01:17:25

I met her out here. Well, actually I've met her before in California, but she's out here in the

01:17:30

Philippines and She was at the snatch them from the flames Conference actually you had something more to do with that we'll get that I mean see if we can get that person behind you on on the on the show, but her name is

01:17:44

Abigail and She is well I'm gonna let her introduce herself and I'll let you get let her give you her age because You're not gonna be a little bit surprised as we have the conversation when you realize how old she actually is because you're gonna think

01:17:59

Oh, she's lying like I do but go ahead introduce yourself. Hello there My name is

01:18:04

Abigail. I am 14 years old I've been I've been living in Philippines and I saw

01:18:12

Andrew rap report on California during the Shepherds conference and we discussed about topics during that time

01:18:21

Then he recently found out that I actually owned reformation pages in case you guys didn't know about That that group it actually tackles or quotes quotes of pastors or preachers around around the world in the

01:18:41

Philippines or in America so I tried to find good quotes on on teaching about theology on On the attributes of God whatever is really reformed for reformation pages okay, so we recently had a

01:18:58

Conference that was sort of put together by someone, you know, maybe a couple people, you know, what do you think?

01:19:06

Yes, it was actually placed together and thought about by my dad who's the pastor of our church?

01:19:13

And and what's the church name? The name of my church is Rock of Refuge Christian Church.

01:19:19

It's reformed Yeah, and it follows teachings like John John MacArthur Steve Lawson and all those

01:19:27

Reformed preachers. Okay, so we're recently out here in the Philippines for snatch them from the flames

01:19:33

What do you think? You learn the most out of this conference So during this conference,

01:19:40

I learned about the false teachers How they roll and what exactly?

01:19:48

They tackle and trap and how they try to entrap people to attend their churches, which is really through prosperity teaching

01:19:56

People like in the Catholic churches here in Philippines, they're starting to merge with prosperity prosperity churches which is really turning out to be a disaster because many

01:20:10

Christians are being led astray and they are confused why the Catholic Church is partnering with some of the quote -unquote

01:20:19

Christian churches So that's why there's like a really big topic trending right now and many

01:20:26

Christians are confused So that's why recently this conference snatch them from the flames decided to tackle

01:20:33

About that by Justin Peters and Andrew Rappaport So it's been really good and many people love learning about background of the false teachers

01:20:45

What are some of the things you walk away with from this conference? So I learned that How false teachers they would

01:20:55

I learned about the backgrounds first of the false teachers for guys like Okay guys like, you know, we're not afraid of naming names go for it

01:21:07

So I learned about guys like Benny Hinn Robert Morris how they

01:21:14

How they would the first They were partner with each other and then this caused many

01:21:23

Christians to be confused about why they partner with Roman Catholicism as I said earlier, then

01:21:29

I also learned how How they would really try to make their messages and sermons to Try to get more money from the people attending which explains why they are really rich Yeah, and I had

01:21:48

I I know I quoted one of the guys and I I'm gonna look at your dad's to make sure

01:21:54

I pronounce the name right because it was Oreo Belliano I'm trying to make sure

01:21:59

I get the pronunciation Belliano and it was very interesting because he took the

01:22:05

Verse that should say that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil and he said

01:22:12

He says that that that we that some say that the love of money is the root of all evil but he says the lack of money is the root of all evil and I guess it was interesting for me.

01:22:24

At least when I mentioned his name. There's like this groan throughout the entire stadium like There are screenshots on the projector taking photos of the of the pastor of g12 because this is the first time hearing it from from another preacher and And everyone's happy with what

01:22:43

Justin and I said, right? Yeah, most of them are There were quite mixed reactions

01:22:50

You mean like the woman preacher that left when we when Justin mentioned about women preachers.

01:22:55

Oh, yeah, she walked out What reaction So before before the the conference actually before snatch them from the flames

01:23:03

We had a couple other events that that your dad had arranged so we had one at your church on church discipline and and then

01:23:13

Justin spoke on Childhood conversion and then I'll so talk about that and I'll let you mention what we did on Friday Okay, so during church discipline it was real first mainly was

01:23:27

Andrew Rappaport teaching us how a church should Discipline each other before and it makes he taught us how to approach the one that you have conflict with and But but really the main thing before doing

01:23:42

Matthew 18 was checking yourself first if you had any wrong Checking yourself if it's just really a sin that I had or he did he or she did to me with this other believer and it's really a self check first before you do

01:23:59

Matthew 18 on your under on your brother or sister in Christ and Now, let's see if this really was a sin that he or she did to you

01:24:09

You need to tell them and you can't let the sin or bitterness in your heart fester because love that tolerates sin

01:24:16

It's not love at all So really you should if if you have a problem with your brother or sister in Christ, you need to approach them before the sin festers and really gets deeper and bigger and a bitterness hardens until Until it finally explodes and then

01:24:37

Justin Peters later that afternoon talked to us a special bonus topic on childhood conversion

01:24:44

Just because a child grows up in Christian family does not automatically mean that the child is now a

01:24:50

Christian because and even when the child is baptized because baptism really is just telling people that you're a

01:24:59

Christian it's a proclamation Becoming a Christian is really repenting and trusting in Jesus Christ as your

01:25:06

Lord and Savior Now if the child does that which is really great and you didn't encourage them to to mature more in Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ in glorifying him and It would be great to see the results of the faith of the child before they can get baptized

01:25:25

So that's really what? what Justin Peters taught about in the afternoon and he and he also showed us examples of how true conversion is as a

01:25:35

Christian which means you need to have love for the brethren godly affection

01:25:42

Especially love for Christ continuous love for Christ your faith in him Really all the conversions that would show when you're a

01:25:50

Christian. I mean the examples To show that godly affection and all that but if you're a

01:25:57

Christian So that's what Justin Peters taught in the afternoon Well, Andrew Rappaport taught us church discipline in the morning which greatly helped and I would really suggest that your church goes through Learning how to do applied church discipline because it would really benefit the members of the church

01:26:15

What do we do on Friday on? Friday we had an open air

01:26:21

So Andrew Rappaport taught us how to do and how to do an actual open air for all the brethren

01:26:28

For all the brethren in my church how to like you can't turn your back around the people or else the people will start to leave and how your voice needs to be loud enough for the people to hear

01:26:43

How you need to show especially? Show respect to the people unlike other

01:26:50

Christians sadly when they step up on the box, they would immediately argue with the people with no respect or honor

01:26:59

Which is why the people would start to turn against the preacher but really in an open air you should show respect and compassion and gentleness because then the people would see how

01:27:12

Christians would act because remember you're a representative of God here and How you act would show how

01:27:18

Jesus acted? Which really is a huge responsibility And then we did something that I've never done before we went inside a mall now

01:27:27

I've been inside a mall and evangelized and I've been outside doing open air But there's no way

01:27:33

I could get away with what we did here in the Philippines We went into a mall set up a big amplifier

01:27:38

Right in the middle of atrium and just started preaching the gospel. How did that go?

01:27:45

Well, praise God many people encircled around Andrew Rappaport and started listening to what he had to say and Some of them got the free books and tracts and some of them even listened up to the end of his open -air preaching which is really praise

01:28:03

God and Even though there were other preachers that came next after Andrew Rappaport some people came and went

01:28:10

Some but some people you could see that they were really listening and that and I pray that it really convicted their hearts

01:28:17

Now I noticed that you and your sister Don't seem to go very many places without handing out gospel tracts

01:28:24

I think actually I could be wrong But you seem like you make you put me to shame and I hand out a lot of tracts

01:28:31

But you two are like track machines so You enjoy giving out gospel tracts.

01:28:38

You you enjoy talking with folks talk about the evangelism that you do I know your dad is very involved with with Evangelism and very supportive of living waters and so in you've gotten to see

01:28:51

Ray Comfort live do some open -air so we could even talk about that so Well, really my it was my parents who trained me to give tracts ever since I was a kid

01:29:02

That's why I got so used in giving tracts immediately to other people

01:29:07

Although it's not easy I can tell you because sometimes when you're gonna hand out tracts you're gonna see

01:29:12

Before you hand out the tracts that you will look at a people's face Sometimes it's really old and grumpy and you're afraid to give the track to them

01:29:21

But even sometimes some of the old people or grouchy people that I give tracts to After you give it to them and explain to them what this really is

01:29:31

You're gonna see their faces brighten up and it's really encouraging to see that so don't hesitate to keep giving out tracts

01:29:37

Because you're really sharing the gospel of Christ and what he did Did you enjoy when we were out in California for shepherds conference getting to see

01:29:45

Ray Comfort do some open -air Oh, yeah, it was awesome. If you guys are ever in Los Angeles, you should really see pray comfort open -air in Huntington, California the

01:29:57

Experience you have is so exciting. It just makes you want to share the gospel all the more So really recommend it.

01:30:04

I mean to see Ray Comfort preaching live is was just so awestruck

01:30:11

So we're we're right now we're down in Cebu now we were in Manila for the conference

01:30:17

We can do same conference again tomorrow in Cebu So let's talk about Reformation pages that page that you run

01:30:25

You have this both you have a Twitter and you have Facebook and so for folks who don't

01:30:31

Know don't follow either one on Facebook or on Twitter. My encouragement is go out there and Find those pages or tweet.

01:30:40

I don't know what a Twitter page would be, but I'm not big on the Twitter but Go out and follow

01:30:46

Reformation pages on Twitter and find the group. I think it's a is it a group or a page on it's a page

01:30:52

So find the page like the page because you like pages and you join groups on Facebook. So like the page

01:30:58

Reformation Pages and let's talk about that. And what what what was your goal in setting that up?

01:31:04

And what do you try to do with that? I really wanted to gather the quotes of good reformed preachers to encourage the body of Christ or convict them because sometimes

01:31:15

I mean, I just wanted to find good quotes to encourage really because sometimes when you're a believer and And you just need good old quote by one of the reformed preachers to cheer you up or convict you

01:31:31

Yeah, so I just thought to do that for for my for the other believers or for other

01:31:38

Christians so You're 14 years old, which

01:31:43

I both Justin and I have talked we are amazed in your maturity at your age

01:31:51

I know Justin just was sharing with me how we were talking about During the different events this week about the attributes of God and things like that and he was commenting to me how

01:32:04

You're you're starting to view the attributes of God and look through the the chart that we we have at striving fraternity

01:32:11

And how that affected your your worship. So why don't you share with what you had shared with him?

01:32:17

Oh, yes so Recently after Andrew Rappaport taught us about learning the attributes of God and applying it to your life or Because the more, you know

01:32:27

God the more you would love him so after hearing that I tried to apply it to my quiet time to read in reading the

01:32:34

Bible and Recently, especially this morning. I was studying first Peter Where there was a verse there that said to him be the dominion for all ages and ages

01:32:44

Amen, and the word dominion there is also power and the one attribute of God came to mind to me was

01:32:52

God is being God being omnipotent which means all -powerful and There's the verse in Jude where it says all glory majesty dominion and authority before all time now and forevermore

01:33:04

When you I read all those all those power words describing God how powerful he is

01:33:10

It just struck me if God is that powerful That and if I sin, then it shows how low

01:33:19

I view God I mean I should be dead right now, but it's only because of his grace.

01:33:25

I'm still alive and being able to serve him He's that powerful and it made me thought how do

01:33:31

I show honor and reverence to the King of Kings? That's how I was really amazed how the attributes of God could really fit into your quiet time and make you have a deeper view of God and more respect and reverence

01:33:45

Now your dad put me up to doing something. Didn't he but at the end on Sunday we were at church and There's something now know something that I was willing to do that.

01:33:57

Justin Peters was not what was that? Well, he made Andrew Rappaport eat Balut.

01:34:02

So why don't you describe what Balut is for folks? For folks who don't know what Balut is

01:34:07

It's an egg that and it's not your typical kind of egg when you oh, it's an it's a duck egg

01:34:15

So when you open it, you could still see the the chick's head the brain

01:34:22

And the soup inside it But Andrew Rappaport ate it and Justin Peters your action was like whoa

01:34:31

It was fascinating to see Andrew Rappaport eat it Usually foreigners would really not eat that kind of egg and try to avoid it

01:34:41

But Andrew Rappaport he ate it and we were like what you just eat Balut. Is this real?

01:34:48

so it's it's a a fertilized egg that has a Developing duckling and Justin didn't do but he did have that he did he did have a little bit today of the pigs blood

01:35:03

Right, and so you that was so he I had to have some because I wasn't gonna let

01:35:09

Justin win, right? because Now that Andrew Rappaport ate it he could say

01:35:16

Justin I win and speaking of that you should really go to the site just in I win calm

01:35:22

And Andrew Rappaport will explain why oh, you're putting me on the spot. Oh, wow. I was gonna ask you

01:35:29

Yes, you should go to Justin. I win calm. We actually had your entire church rose great for a picture

01:35:34

You know Most people will say like smile or say Jesus or something to get people to smile We all shouted

01:35:40

Justin I win. I think all but Justin just said that hmm I wish we had video of that But yeah, it's for folks who are regular listeners of the rap report

01:35:49

You know that I I'm constantly trying to get everyone to support Justin Peters ministries And so he created a web page that well

01:35:56

It's just for a lot of fun of Justin I who we're kind of having a battle He wanted he wanted to give me some of his

01:36:04

DVDs. I wanted to pay for the DVDs It just got a little bit of out of hand and turned into something where we created a website called

01:36:12

Justin I win so it all of you could donate to Justin's ministry and you could go to Justin I win calm

01:36:19

There's a link to go and donate you get to donate to Justin and just make sure you hashtag

01:36:24

Justin I win so that I get the bragging rights. That's the beauty of it. See it's win -win either way, right?

01:36:30

He gets the money. I get the bragging rights Sounds like a good deal. It's a good deal.

01:36:35

Really you guys should really the night to Justin Peters. He's a great preacher and He would really love to support you give him so What do you think the chances are we're gonna get your dad to come over here, you know, you think that's gonna happen

01:36:52

Chances of my dad joining is a hundred percent This isn't video we can't see he's saying no no, no

01:37:01

No, you know, this was actually so since he's not gonna come on We'll just I'm just gonna talk about him in the conference

01:37:08

One of the things that amazed me was your dad didn't take any of the limelight

01:37:14

He actually didn't do any of the emceeing put on all the work And didn't take any of the credit.

01:37:22

It was kind of a very interesting thing. Is that typically the way he is? Yeah, he really doesn't like to be the spotlight and as much as possible.

01:37:31

He'd let others take the Credit, so why he's embarrassed right now and covering his eyes.

01:37:36

Yes You know, but I mentioned to your dad

01:37:44

This this conference was probably out of what? Oh, I've traveled all around and do many conferences

01:37:49

I was thoroughly impressed with the conference the way the whole church just came together and Worked as one to pull off this conference.

01:38:00

There was I feel was it was it a 1 ,100 1 ,200 people in attendance

01:38:07

It was 1 ,092 people in attendance But praise God it really went.

01:38:13

Well, that was a lot of work. Yeah, and everyone came together worked as one which

01:38:19

Really characterized. Well what we see in 1st Corinthians chapter 12 where it talks about many members in one body and It really was impressive to see the way the church functions together as one

01:38:34

So you you like that church? Don't don't look at dad with answering this. Oh Yeah, I love my church it's really by God's grace that we're able to be in unity and I think

01:38:48

Continuing to be in unity really means and studying the Bible and loving God first because when you love

01:38:54

God You would love the brethren all the more Has has the preaching there's the pastor pretty cool.

01:39:02

Yeah I Think he's trying to compete with Justin Peterson who could be more humble

01:39:15

I think they're both working at it and I think both of them put me to shame just saying but so any any other things any other thoughts you had so far from the week and and Or the things you want to share with the ministry you have online

01:39:28

Oh, well, it's praise God really that all these seminars went well and Really I mean to the ministry continue working for God's glory even when things look bleak

01:39:45

God is sovereign and Really to stay in unity because through that the church could stick together and help each other to love

01:39:52

Christ more and to serve him All right, so folks that was

01:39:58

Abigail and if you're wondering like I am is she really 14 years old

01:40:03

Yeah, she actually is just way way way mature Than her age.

01:40:10

And so I hope that you guys enjoyed that and if you're saying well gee, uh, I don't know that I speak like that and I'm in my whatever age and it's more than 14

01:40:20

Yeah, maybe you need to up your game, but go check out Reformation pages on both

01:40:26

Twitter and Facebook and Follow them see what different quotes and things

01:40:32

She is putting out pray for the results of subu conference because it is it's having some effects in here in the

01:40:38

Philippines already Isn't it? Yes, it is and I pray that it would have good effects and convicting hearts

01:40:45

So we we thank you for coming on and it is it really has been for both just and I a privilege to get to See how

01:40:52

God has been working in your life and how mature you you are It's a testimony to both your parents, but it's a big testimony to you as well

01:41:01

Thank you, Andrew up for it for having me and thank you Justin Peters I mean it's real because After when you two came

01:41:10

I really learned a lot from both of you and it has encouraged me a lot as well And my family has blessed my church.

01:41:16

Thank you very much Well, thanks for coming on This podcast is part of the striving for eternity ministry for more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church

01:41:25

Go to Simon fraternity org. Hey, Tommy. Oh, this could be really fun It remains calling should we add him in?

01:41:33

Oh Yeah, sure. Let's have fun Hey Ed Hey Ed, how are you?

01:41:42

Say why don't you say hey listen, I just want to let you know I should let you know up front You're right now being recorded for the rap report podcast with Justin Peters.

01:41:51

So say hi to Justin Hey, how's it going brother? We got we got

01:42:08

Ed speechless so and we were talking about our trip to the that we had at the Philippines and you'll get to be able to hear this with when the podcast drops but For folks who don't know

01:42:17

Ed Ed is a dear brother who has cerebral palsy But my favorite story about Ed I got to tell the story

01:42:25

Ed about you in New York with the guy that wanted to hit you It's it's just my favorite story.

01:42:31

I Love it. So we were in New York and you you were there in your wheelchair You had a wireless mic on and you're sitting there we got a big speaker set up and you were just preaching the gospel and some guy was really angry yelling at the speakers that he was gonna punch you if you didn't stop it and he couldn't figure out who was doing the talking and you just looked at him and you said you're gonna punch a guy in a wheelchair and He just zoomed in on you realized

01:42:58

And then walks over gives you a fist pump and says keep up the good work man and walked off and I was just like You're like you can get away with a lot of things in a wheelchair

01:43:10

I Mean give you a call back because we only have about 10 minutes to wrap up with Justin He's the one

01:43:33

No, he's the better -looking of the three of us but All right,

01:43:39

I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you a call back in a bit. Okay? All right