Answering the Critics from the Philippines

False Teachers, Truth, and the Meaning of the Term

Everything that false teachers teach is false. Some of it is right. Benny Hinn is a false teacher by every single biblical criterion of the term. If Benny Hinn is not a false teacher, then the term has no meaning.

Welcome Back From the Philippines

Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rap report where we provide biblical interpretations and applications. This is a ministry of striving for eternity. For more content or to request a speaker or seminar for your church go to strivingforeternity .org.

Hey, it's Justin Peters there. Yes. He is here speaking. Okay, so Justin Peters is with me. We just got back from the Philippines. I know many of you had been praying for us. We are very.

Very.

Very grateful for those prayers because they were needed and you'll see some of the fruit of the trip that we had. I do want To say up front for those who helped to donate to allow us to be able to go.

For folks who don't know the church there in the Philippines helped take care of things while We were there. But both Justin and I Committed that we were going to go and regardless of whether the funds were coming in for the flights.

And so we covered our own flights to get out there and they covered things once we were there. So people realized that was donated and we are very grateful for those of you who made this possible. We wanted to kind of give you an update on some of the things that went on Justin.

This was your second trip out there to the Philippines, correct. Rick Andrew. I was there four years ago.

Yeah, 2015 and enjoyed my time very much then. But I think I enjoyed this trip even more than I did the first one. So I truly was a joy.

We got a lot to talk about so I wanted to kind of go day by day and you and I just talked through The events of each day and some of the stuff we did so we hit the ground running. Mean pastor Armand kept us busy.

That would be a fair assessment, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

But you know, I'm glad he did when when I go on these trips when you go on these trips a lot of times people. Ask me. Well, you went to so-and-so country. Did you see this? Do you see that? And I'm like, no, we typically don't do any sightseeing when we go when I go on international trips.

So we hit the ground running. We're there for a reason. We're there to preach teach God's Word evangelize and that's what we do. So he did keep us busy, but I'm glad he did because that's why we were there.

We did our best to redeem the time. So it was it was good. It was tiring but it was good a good a good kind of tired.

Yeah, and it was I mean we landed we originally. The plan was that we were gonna go there have one day of rest. Without any any activities so we could adjust to any jet lag and it didn't quite work out that way.

We we flew in now. You were not feeling well in that flight in and for folks who are following at least me on on Facebook We ended up flying into a lightning storm. I remember looking out the window as we were coming in and we were seeing that lightning just cracking as we were landing and then.

We were stuck on the ground for about two hours and you weren't feeling good at that time. We barely got much sleep first thing in the morning. We were at a radio interview, which was an interesting interview.

I think with knowing what we found out afterwards. We kind of were like wow some of the things we said really may have had an impact there. We had an interview they interviewed both of us together talk about the conference some of the things we talked about.

Then they interviewed you Interviewed me separately and you and I both brought up the issue of Hillsong and Jesus culture music. Why do you think that may have had an impact there?

Well.

I hope that it had an impact there because the as we found out towards the kind of towards the end of our time they particular radio station plays a lot of the Jesus culture in Hillsong music and. Initially the interviews seemed to go very well.

And they seem to be in support of the things that we were saying about Jesus culture and Hillsong. Which for those who may not know who may be new to this. We are very much opposed to playing Hillsong songs in church and Jesus culture songs in church.

Because these two groups come from heretical churches false churches. Hillsong from a name Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia. Jesus culture from Bethel Church pastored by Bill Johnson read in California.

Both of these are false churches. And so when when you play their music, even if the music that you're playing may pass a basic doctrinal smell test. When you when you play their music in church the unsuspecting person out there sitting in the pew reading lyrics on the screen.

They see in the fine print kind of bottom left-hand corner. I think it is on music by Hillsong music by Jesus culture and they see that and they think oh, wow. That's Hillsong Jesus culture. I think I'll check them out there but they must be okay because we're singing their songs in church and Bethel and Hillsong use their music as a hook to pull you into their heretical system heretical theological system.

So so I strongly warn churches. I know I'm really going against the stream of thought here the prevailing mainstream Thought and evangelical churches, but I really urge people churches pastors music ministers Don't sing Hillsong songs in your church.

Don't sing Jesus culture music in your church because these are coming from false Churches heretical churches. So anyway, all that to say I think this radio station saved radio. They they rely on a lot of Hillsong Jesus culture, so I don't know I don't know what kind of fruit if any that will that will bear and in that particular radio station and Arts of those who interviewed us.

They were really nice folks, you know, really really nice folks.

I think you would echo that they were agreeing with us as we were even talking about Hillsong. Well, most of them I should say we're agreeing with us when we were talking about these things and the dangers of playing that music.

Except for there was one one gentleman who while you were being interviewed when it was your solo interview and you were mentioning Something about Hillsong. I ended up talking with the one of the guys there and he's like wow if we cut that out.

We don't have much music in our playlist and I was like you could find some other good stuff. And we should never let the what the audience may want to listen to be The deterring factor in what we're gonna play on a radio station.

That's right. That's right, Andrew.

But you know, it comes down to a function of supply and demand unfortunately for the vast majority of Churches and ministries out there or whatever the demand is. That's what they will supply and it's sad that that's the case.

But that is reality. But yeah. You shouldn't let popular demand dictate the content of your broadcast or your ministry your teaching. Because if you do that if you if you try to cater to popular demand Inevitably you're gonna go into some really bad theological weeds because Most people don't want sound doctrine.

That's not what they want. They want things to tickle the ears. So It's always 100 of the time a recipe for Disaster to cater to the prevailing thought and give people what they want to hear biblical reality.

Is is that what people want to hear is not what they need to hear? I would rather than play Johnny Cash or you know Ricky Staggs or Mozart or something than Jesus culture in Hillsong.

We did appreciate the ability to be able to communicate with them some some things that may have been hard for some of them To hear but they seemed receptive. I think that that was really good. We got him after that we did get a little bit of a break for us to get some last-minute study and then we went to the church and did a Basically a Q &A with the with pastor Armand Church a rocker refuge Christian Church there in Manila.

And so we were able to spend some time with with that local church, which was really a blessing. They said it was a blessing to them. I don't know about you. I thought felt it was more of a blessing for us getting to know some of them and that was more of just a kind Of an informal just Q &A any kind of questions?

It was a sweet time of fellowship with them and I love the people in that church Armand and Jackie his family and all the others. A pastor John there as well and his family just here. They're sweet people this precious precious Saints.

They're also willing to serve and put in tremendous hours in making all of this trip. Come together and copy it.

The type of questions that we got led me to believe that this was a mature church this in America. I found a lot of kind of fluff type questions when you do a Q &A with a church. They're not deep Theological type things.

The the folks there wanted to discuss the things of God you mentioned pastor Armand's Family, we're gonna actually play an interview with a member of his family who I believe impressed both of us very quickly.

And that would be his daughter Abigail. Yes. Yes indeed. I'll tell you Two points. Yes, you're right. It's always interesting to me the the kind of questions that I'm asked in different churches. You can generally kind of get a feel for the depth of the church.

Reflected in the kind of questions that are asked and the deeper the questions, of course teaching it. That's you know, did Adam have a belly button or something like that? You can tell them, you know, these things not particularly deep.

But so any I thought yes, even though I can't recall any of the questions off the top of my head right now I do remember that they were good. Shallow requires them in one or two. Reflected very well on the teaching there as the end as you said Little Abigail 14 year old Abigail Armand and Jackie's daughter you and I both Andrew were just Abigail and all three of their kids are as sweet as they can be.

But of course Abigail is a little bit older. She's the oldest of the three and so she can she's getting to the age where she can process through some of these Theological things and begin to integrate on and study on her own in a deep level.

That those yeah, I guess you said we're gonna play a clip of her and I'll put it up on YouTube, too.

I actually had a full interview with her that we did while we were while what down there. So at the end of this episode, I'm gonna I'll play that interview that I had with her. She runs a couple of pages on Facebook where you look at those pages.

You realize some of the maturity of her. But I blown away I mean one of the questions that came in that you and I had to answer was the question of how do you? Encourage us to mature in our faith. What type of things should we be studying to mature in our faith?

And the one thing that I had mentioned is to study the attributes of God. I explained how that helped me and how I think our theology is rooted in that and when you have a good understanding the attributes And nature of God your theology is going to be more accurate because a lot of the theology that's bad.

You end up finding any they're messing with the attributes of God or I think what is you refer as the perfections of God? We talked about that and the next day she comes up to me. We're at breakfast and she's she's just like, you know, mr Andrew that was that was so helpful about the attributes I I decided to get your card on the attributes of God and I used it in my Devotions this morning and just prayed through those attributes and meditated on that and I'm like going wow, and she's only 14.

Like she's applying things that she learns immediately and then she's talking and and she'll talk about this on the interview I have with her but she talks about how that made an impact on her and You and I were just very blown away by the maturity that that she had.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely blown away. I don't think I've ever talked to a 14 year old who knows as much as she does and studies at the level that she does and and. Just sweetest you can be to just feed as a button.

Well, and then we have the question of have you ever been around anyone that hands out more tracks than three of the kids?

Actually, that's a whole other. That's a whole other Patrick for this is one night. We were in in fact the last night we were there. But we went to kind of have a meal together in a mall and we got all of the tracks.

That we had on us. Some of my personal tracks I had and I think some years we gave them to those kids and they just they got rid of them at no time. I've got video of a video that those kids going up around all these people sitting there on the staff there Abigail and Lena took the took the tracks and just went up and handed them all out.

Almost everybody took them in every restaurant. We went to they were handing out tracks and there are track machines. So the next day we we got up we did a a conference for pastors. It was it was geared.

Specifically to pastors. I did the morning sessions did three sessions on church discipline. Which I expected when when pastor Arman said we're gonna we're gonna do a conference for pastors on church discipline.

So we'll have about four or five people.

Right.

That room was packed. I forget what he said. I'm thinking there was a hundred fifty or so folks there. I did the morning sessions on church discipline. You did an afternoon session on you based off of your book on on childhood conversion.

Then we did a Q &A. We you know for the that group that was there. I think that was really helpful. I would honestly say I don't know too many times where we had Topics of church discipline and there was a packed room and and I'll throw this out there again, too.

Is the next day Abigail was asking me all kinds of questions one-on-one at breakfast about church discipline and how how would you implement this? And what about this sort of situation? I'm really showing she was thinking through it but I was just very pleased with seeing the local pastors there having a desire to want to learn about church discipline and childhood conversion and Baptism and whether we should baptize children.

I didn't expect to have a lot of people there really was helpful in gearing up for the Conference that was going to be coming that weekend, but we got a lot of good teaching in there regarding Issues related to the church specifically geared toward pastors.

Yes.

The room was packed. There was. What probably hundred and over a hundred people that were there for the church discipline? Maybe hundred fifty most of them pastors or a good number of them pastors. And yeah, they were very interested in what she had to say about church.

Just when I was really encouraged to see that because as you know. So very few churches Practice church discipline. I mean, it's almost Unheard of I would say 20 years ago probably hardly any churches did it thankfully by God's grace with the renewed interest in reform theology and Doctrines of grace.

That's a few more doing it but it's still vast vast majority of churches don't. But yeah, there was a lot of interest in it. Pastors seemed very grateful for the teaching and. Maybe jumping Sean here, but maybe we can talk about this a little bit later once we get to it.

But some of the criticism you and I got. They quoted the main passage dealing with church discipline Matthew 18. Yes, there's some of the. These very people that quote Matthew 18 that go to churches that don't practice church discipline, which is.

More than a little ironic. So anyway, wait, are you. Are you saying not everybody loved having us down there?

Not everybody. Whoa to you and all men speak well of you. I think you and I are. I think you and I are okay on that at least on that front goes. Not everybody speaks. Well, that's yeah.

We were we are gonna get to that before too long so so we had it. We so we get there. We have the radio interview first thing. We we do a Q &A with the church that evening. Next morning the whole day.

We're doing this Basically conference for local pastors. Now the next day you and I went in different locations. So you went for a radio interview and then you went to the mall to do some evangelism. While you were at the radio interview I was doing an open-air evangelism training and Then I took a team of folks actually that all the folks that had been at that training.

We went to that same mall you were at. They got a permit to amplify inside the mall something I've never been able to do in the u .s. But we actually were evangelizing in the mall in the atrium. I did an open-air training.

It was it was maybe two sessions to one hour session. So it was kind of quick.

We.

Basically went over some Some things how to go about doing open-air evangelism. How things that would help with evangelism in general? But then specifically we really want to focus on doing open-air because in the Philippines as you and I discovered there are Issues with open-air because most of the guys who do open-air down there.

The first thing they do is ask for money. Before doing open-air or ask for money before, you know, like forgiving gospel tracts and that made it where people were a little bit leery of the open-air because they were they were expecting us to be asking for money from them and.

So it was one of the things that I learned from that and I came in handy when I did the open-air to mention that Things were free. But while I was doing that you were at a radio station. How'd that interview go?

We really will.

That.

Interview was I think it went better than the first one that we did the very first morning we were that there was so we were in a different building different radio station and The the lady who interviewed me is very very much like minded.

I made it up the elevator as far as we can go and then there was like three flights of steps. That the elevator didn't go to and they had to put me in a put me in a chair and some guys got around. Lifted me up in this chair and toted me up all those steps.

And they were they were a bit winded by the time we got to the top of that. Understandably, so so but super nice folks and just everybody there was great. And just couldn't do enough to help me whenever I needed help.

And so I don't even think that interview has been aired yet. I think they're gonna air it I don't know sometime really soon, but it hasn't aired yet. So by God's grace that that will bear some fruit as well.

But that that interview is done by someone I think exactly where we are.

Theologically and I'll try to see if I can grab all the links for those things and put them into the show notes. If I if I can find them if they've aired afterwards. After that you went to the mall and just handed out some tracks.

You know ended up going back to do some more research because you were doing some research. Specifically on some of the local folks there and what we're gonna get to that in a bit. I ended up taking the team of folks that we we did the training with to the mall we had a box of Books booklets they were provided by wretched radio.

Or I guess just wretched now because they're they're radio and TV, right? So They had donated a whole box of actually more than one box. We had them for the conference, but we took a box there and as we I was doing the open-air.

One of the things I was already told was that the the Filipinos will not come up and talk even though we had a microphone in a and a box for the for people to dialogue with. Us nobody actually came up.

It was just me and then a couple other brothers that were doing just preaching the gospel. But then I realized we had this box of books and I just mentioned to folks here. These books are for you. They're free.

You could take them and After one person walked up then slowly a lot of those books. Disappeared people were coming up during the preaching. We had people recording it people that were seen as like four stories high people were up Upstairs looking down to hear the message.

So I think it was good. The gospel went forth. We got a lot of good one-on-one conversations. And the next day was the Saturday for really that what we were there for was the conference at the Sky Dome.

The on discernment there was about I think they said 1 ,100 people in attendance. I personally was really impressed with the fact that the air-conditioning Unit stopped working very early on to that conference and very few people left.

I think the only people we heard of who left were. Well, some female pastors that didn't like some of the things that were said about women preaching.

Female Pastors and the Creation Order

Yeah.

I.

Remember from the first time I was in the Philippines four years ago that there's a really big issue in the Philippines and not just Philippines here in the States is all over the world, but maybe a bit more acute in the Philippines than some other places of there being female pastors and So I dealt with that in my teaching in.

The first conference there in Manila the really big one where we had I think about 1 ,100 people attend. I show up for that conference. And so I dealt with that and yeah, not not everyone was thrilled with that.

They were young in both Manila and Cebu. The next conference there in Cebu further south of the Philippines there were some female pastors from what we were informed that attended and. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't think they were very happy With what we had to say and we were both very clear on this.

In fact in the Q &A we were asked about it and you Andrew said if you have a female pastor a she's not a pastor B. It's not a it's not a church. She's not a pastor and you don't have a real church. And we were very black and white on that because the Bible is very black and white on that.

There should not be any confusion about this and So but I also have heard that maybe one or two of the lady pastors who were there Express some. You know some sentiment that what we said gave them some pause and gave them some Something to think about so on.

I hope that that's the case.

Well, there was even a question that came up in Cebu at the Cebu conference. And when we talk about the Manila in Cebu, we did the same conference on Saturday in Manila and then we flew down to Cebu and did the same conference on a Tuesday.

So, uh, yeah, it was a Tuesday there and so we did the same basic messages but in two places but in Cebu. We were asked the question and and speak about being direct. The question was something like, you know, if you have a female pastor How what do you do to transition to having a male pastor?

And if the second part of the question is if no men step up What do you do? And I was pretty direct I see, you know, I just said well if you you know to transition to a male pastor you fire the female pastor.

If no man steps up close the church and there was there was a group of female pastors that were just like, ooh I didn't realize they were female pastors at the time. But I just I think because I was so direct with it.

Maybe that was was the issue but it did seem that that question was being asked my understanding was from someone who is Questioning her role as a female pastor and so that that may be why she she asked the question I do think it there in that aspect.

There was the clarity in Which we spoke on that issue. I think Helped some folks to realize that this isn't just you know, first Timothy 2 12 and 14 is not some cultural issue. It's actually an issue based in the creation order.

Sufficiency of Scripture and Discernment

We went through that when I taught on on how to interpret the Bible and I think it was clear. So let's actually go through the topics. You started us off with a topic on the sufficiency of scripture, which was essential I think to start off with because of the fact that we're talking about discernment and It really set the tone.

Why why is the sufficiency of scripture so important when we're going to talk about discernment? Like we did.

Yeah, Andrew. I tell people all the time that the real battle of the Bible today is not so much over an errant seat. In and of itself though. Some of those fires still smolder, but but where the real battle is being fought today.

And I understand that they're both of these are inextricably linked, but most people don't understand that. But the where the real battle is being fought today is over. Sufficiency is God's Word sufficient and we are losing that battle big time.

So my my first session in Manila and Sabu Talking about how God does and does not speak to us it's it's almost unquestioned today that God speaks to us and it's still small voice or inner impressions things like that and we've created a whole lingo and a Position that really is not supported by scripture at all.

We hear people say well I feel like God is saying such and such to me. I think God said such and such. You know, you won't find that language anywhere in Scripture when God spoke it was crystal clear as to what he was saying.

There's no Ambiguity about what God said. So this whole, you know, I feel like God told me I think God told me that's that's a That is language that is foreign to Scripture. You won't see that anywhere Old or New Testament but if we allow for this that God is Speaking outside of Scripture in a direct quotable sense.

Well, hey, we've got an open canon of Scripture again. Of course, whatever God says should be just as authoritative as any verse in the Bible. But be what we're also saying is is that the Word of God is not enough.

Got it. It's not enough. Even though God's Word tells us that it is enough that it is. The Word of God is Our scripture is inspired by God and it's profitable for doctrine for approved for correction for Instruction and righteousness that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished adequately fully equipped Unto every good work and so God's Word tells us it's sufficient and yet in in how we kind of live out the Christian life, but the lingo that we use and Then things like what God spoke to me to tell me to do this to do that Esther God spoke to me told me to tell you our church needs to go this direction.

And what we're saying is is that God's Word is not sufficient we need these Extra revelations from God. God needs to speak to us Outside of Scripture so that we can really know what his will is for our lives.

And if we can't hear him speak to us then as Henry Blackaby says author of experience to God. We are in truck quote. We are in trouble at the very heart of our Christian experience.

So.

Yeah, this is where the the battle is being fought. Today's is God's Word sufficient and the vast majority of people who profess to be believers It's not.

How to Interpret God's Word

Yeah, you know this this was a thing that I'm seeing on my my Twitter. You know Reformation pages put out the meme the one that you referred to that I had said about the you know If you have a woman pastors, it's she's not a pastor.

It's not church, and there's a woman who's been going after me for days because she's upset that I would say this and I'm saying but what is first Timothy to say and and Myself and some others are saying this is talking about a creation order issue.

This is not culture, and she's like well I don't think it means that God speaks to me. And it's so the thing is you see people that will reject the clear teaching of God's Word. Because it doesn't speak to them and that's why I think it was so essential to start on the sufficiency of Scripture because When you started there you set the tone for for both of the conferences you set the tone to say our Authority is going to be the Word of God not what you feel now.

What do you think it says not what you want it to say? But what it actually says which which was what led into my? Topic which was how to interpret God's Word because once we realize that this the scriptures are the the thing that we look to as An authority to discuss this stuff well now we we need to know how do we interpret it and so I did a session on Basically giving the basic principles a very practical session on how to interpret the Bible and I the feedback I got from that really was unexpected.

I did not get I was not expecting so many people to come up and and still emailing and Sending messages on Facebook on Twitter even as even as of yesterday. Getting messages saying that that encouraged people to study the Bible that they now feel that they have some tools and some training to know how to rightly handle it because in some of those churches that you and I Talked about like like victory and and the the other word of faith churches G12 they they don't give their people the tools to interpret because if they did These people would realize that their pastors are not teaching accurately, right?

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I agree Andrew. There's probably no better Compliment or no, no better word of encouragement. I could possibly receive from someone and then to hear them say After hearing you teach you have made me want to study my Bible more.

You made me want to go deeper into the scriptures. It was really nothing else. There's nothing better. You could say to me There's no no thing that you can say that will encourage me more Than that right there because that's what we want people to do that.

That is the good fruit that We pray that God will will bear in in our ministries. As long as we handle God's Word rightly teach it rightly and conduct ourselves in such a way that brings honor and glory to Christ.

That's what he's going to do in in any ministry that is grounded in the Word of God. That's when we rightly understand God's Word. It should create enough a desire to Study it further. And so yeah, I mean If we can we can go we can go all year long.

Yeah, and we had many we had many no granted I mean, there's there were 1 ,100 people at the first conference in Cebu I think they said there was 250 at that one. And that was by the way, that was on a Tuesday.

So this is a workday and they they filled the room. They actually had to cut off Registration, but the third topic that we had was where you started getting into dealing with Discernment itself. So and you did this in two parts you covered two things.

One. You're really covering discernment. How do we discern you covered? The issues of people that we needed to be discerning. You dealt with people that were. You basically dealt with some things with the Roman Catholic Church and people that were compromising on that.

So you did two sessions on that. Let's talk about those now that those sessions are the ones that probably brought the most Controversy for us or people that were unhappy with us because you named names and I mean you name more names than I did.

I'll grant you that You're a bolder man than me no. But you did you name some names and let's be honest you quoted people and people were upset that you did that. So I want to get into the controversy later.

But at this point just to say that you did provide quote direct quotations from people. We had audio from them. We you played the video clips so what was the goal in in what were you trying to teach as far as discernment and A second question I want from you is why do you did you feel?

Necessary to name some of the names of folks that were local there versus just mentioning The people we deal with here that are in word of faith or an AR. Sure.

Well, the discernment is vitally vitally important for the believer today. It's not an option. It is a mandate. All of us are Commanded by Scripture to exercise discernment. Paul says in first Thessalonians 521 that we are to test all things.

And hold fast to that which is good we are to examine everything through the lens of Scripture. It's not an option it's our mandate. And What makes false teaching so pernicious is that not everything that false teachers teach is False.

Some of it is right. Benny Hinn is a false teacher by every single biblical criterion of the term. If Benny Hinn is not a false teacher, then the term has no meaning. And yet Benny Hinn not everything that he says is wrong and a lot of what he says is right but it's that truth mixed with error that is so profoundly dangerous.

And so if we don't exercise discernment. We don't search the scriptures to see if these things are so per Acts chapter 17 verse 11. Then we will ingest Poison right along with a little bit of truth and a little bit of poison in killing you.

It's very very dangerous.

And it can stump it can stump. Someone's grim. We saw this with several people who who were in these churches that victory and g12 that were. They just haven't been growing spiritually and they suddenly realized what they've been missing.