Live Dividing Line from Las Vegas with Summer of Sheologians (and the Grandkids)

Well greens, welcome to the dividing line, my name is James white coming to you from a blustery Las Vegas, Nevada and today is a family integrated version

Which which means If you've ever been to a family integrated church you you learn to adjust to minor distractions and things like that, especially children and And Generally, not dogs

But that might happen as well. There is one back there. In fact, I can just see her in the frame there

That's that's penny if you all want to say hi to penny pennies back there in in the corner But I am in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I'm not gonna it's it's sort of a secret location So we won't give you any more information than that because we're coming to you from the worldwide headquarters of Of Sheologians and I you know,

I got this feeling Because at some point I forget what the context was

I said something to summer about having on the program and it's sort of like yeah, dad We've had you on my program a bunch of times you've never had me on yours before and so I just got this this feeling this the sense that maybe there was some pent -up

Animosity or something there and I'm sort of like, you know I have mentioned it a number of times and I just wanted to make sure that you know

You you all got a good start based upon the quality of the material.

You're producing things like that. So Anyway, so I announced last week that our last program on Monday that if I managed to survive the trip up here which

I did that we would be Coming to you from up here. And so we have really high -tech stuff here

It's called a laptop on a desk very high high -tech. So watch as I move the camera.

Ah She doesn't care about any of this but Coming to you from well, you know, it's a

I'm gonna say it's approximately a five -hour trip, but it's Less for other people but I just won't tell the

Nevada State Troopers that you can make it in considerably less time than I do. It takes me a solid five hours.

Okay All right, I stop a lot. Well, oh and by the way, the the place we both stop in Wikia in wikia.

Yes. I mentioned you to them I said I said my daughter comes down like every two weeks and all the stops here and they're like well

Thank you very much. This is a family business. So say thank you and so I Wouldn't call it a time.

That's you Know and it's quaint and that particular that particular gas station is yeah

I just like that they have I Actually don't know what I like They do have really good honey there.

Yeah, they sell honey. I buy honey for the kids. I don't know I just like it there. So if you're ever in on the state route, that's 93 there

Isn't it? It's 93 run state route 93 and in Arizona and you hit wiki up Yeah, now you have to be careful because you go straight through without even noticing it.

It's not true. You slow down 45 miles an hour They stop you this is true, but it's on the

West side of west side. No, um, yes West side

West side Anyways, it's it's a nice place. It's got a little restaurant there, which

I've never eaten. I've never Was I would never eat at the restaurant? I'm sure it's a fine restaurant.

Anyways, why are we talking about that every two weeks summer drives all the way down to Phoenix, Arizona to Watches Tempe Tempe.

Yes to the Apologia Studios where she enjoy record she alerted and so that started in September 2016

Three years in September. It's coming up. Well, that was just before President Trump was elected.

I think there's any connection Okay, we won't go there helped my show quite a bit Well, yeah, there's been a lot of development since there no toys, yeah

But anyway since we're gonna be doing it from from the home here, I thought it would be wise

Initially to take care of the child issue Because Now now

Janie, I don't think really cares one way or the other but but the older kids have seen the dividing line on The TV screen.

Yeah, they know and Clementine has been on the program Well, actually,

I think I think Cadence's right ear was on the program a few weeks ago with Clementine They were in the doghouse outside Which was a really horrifying moment for me as a mother.

Oh, really? And they like went outside and hung out in the doghouse

Well, okay, all right Anyways, so we thought the best way to do this would be just to have each of the kids

Say hello, and then they can go do something else once the excitement wears off because they've now been on the program

So we thought we'd start with the youngest Yeah, so Janie. I don't know if she's gonna play along JJ.

Come here. You want to say hi me, Janie I don't know. She's gonna be Danny do you want to come here for a second so I could hold you just for a second

Okay, and she's bringing a pinball machine. She's bringing her pinball. I mean just naturally. Okay. Yes So this is

Janie our youngest There you are and we're on the dividing line right now.

Isn't that cool? Yeah, that's pretty good. No, you don't want to say shoes off because you know, you don't worry about that Do you so do you want to say hi everybody?

Oh, hi. Very good. Very good. Good job Look at this years from now and go

Wow But then of course the next in line would be

Clementine and Clementine has been on You can stand between mommy and me

There you go. Clementine was on the program before What'd you say? So, are you are you on a jungle gym right now, is that what you're doing standing between And the kids were looking at themselves in the in the screen before but so now you

Do you remember recording? Your debate with Pastor Jeff You said do you have a chin and then do you remember what he asked you about he asked you about Frozen and he kept messing all the words up to frozen and you kept correcting stuff like that Yeah, so you like Pastor Jeff It's been a while, that's all

So well, so do you are you are you excited to be on the program?

Do you like when panko comes up to visit Do you like when

I take you out to A Okay, she doesn't know so then we have

The poor guy. He's not poor. He's very rich the poor guy that has to put up with three sisters and that means he he has the patience

I Was gonna say of Joe, but Joe was a little more patient. So and and we happen to be wearing

We happen to wearing plaid together today, so this is Waylon come on Waylon So, all right, so you're the guy that has the job of protecting all the girls, right?

Yeah Like last night That's right,

I snuck into the girls room last night and scared Clementine half to death and here comes

Waylon to protect us protect the gals so Is it is it really that bad having three sisters

It's a dog He's good at it. Yes, you're doing a good job and That's why

I Saw you once when did when did your dad shave your head?

Remember. No. Oh, yes Yeah Yeah, and I was like hey as long as you can grow a kid keep growing it because someday it may all go away

I know my Cut it. Okay Okay, good. Good.

Well, this is Waylon and Waylon is the young man of the family. So The girls girls need to have a good young man.

Thank you, son. Thank you So That's three of the four that summer is is

Teaching right now and So the last is our oldest.

So let's have Cadence come over now, of course Now I can't just let me ask you a question when

I was your age if my mom or dad Said James Robert, I knew

I was in trouble so when when your parents want to You're gonna be in trouble

Yeah, they normally call you Kate or Katie, right So they ever just would cadence necessarily mean you were in trouble or is it just You're in trouble, okay.

All right. I just wonder if you know, cuz Clem is Clem, but do she gets in trouble?

Is she Clementine? My mom usually calls me and Eric sometimes calls me

Yeah, okay, so I don't think we really do that don't really do that no

So you have to It's tough being the oldest because you have to give an example for the others and obviously people expect you to I Don't know help out with the others.

Yeah, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Of course it is, of course, it's a good thing.

In fact, I remember early on my first visit up here. I remember Jenny needed to have her

And you dived right in there and got the stuff and helped out. So And you're gonna be you're gonna have two numbers in your age before long

And then to the teen years before long. Oh goodness And notice the shirt here notice see the shirt folks see what that is

Those are the three cages on the Munster. Where would she have gotten a shirt like that? No one knows

Well doing a good job, thank you very much Thanks, all right guys there

I see Eric Asking y 'all to go in there. So we'll we'll catch y 'all later

There I bet you they keep you busy, huh? Super busy. And do you get any illustrations for geologians?

From yeah life experiences. Yeah it's funny when Kate will listen to she elogen sometimes and she'll be like you say that to me all the time

Well, she was sitting next to me last night I started talking to her about stuff and she says yeah mom says that all the time

I Feel like I have like 20 existential conversations a day with the kid because homeschooling just That's what you have to do.

Well, they want to have those conversations and they really can't have them in a public school

They end up having them with people that are equally immature with themselves. Yes in that context or with a wild -eyed leftist teacher

Who's had 20 of those conversations already today with other kids as it is, so yeah

There you go, um Drives like I do.

I'm just now looking at riches notes here. He's saying I drive like him Which means responsible and well, oh,

I see. I see. Oh, yes That was back at the the issue of how long it takes to get the

Phoenix. Yeah Okay, the text thing is sometimes hard to follow So, yeah,

I I you know when I listen to sheologians I I think back to how that all started

Yeah, and I asked you a little while ago if if you were planning on paying pastor

Luke any royalties. No He gets his payment in fame. Oh, well

Then then he needs to be made famous because have you ever yes and we invited him on the show and we acknowledged that so pastor

Luke is The one who named the show and he does that weird scream in the beginning.

So it would have been better You're thankful that I didn't start the program off by saying

Sheologians means that you all think that God is a female right? Because I've seen that yeah

I've actually I mean how many times have you had a plane? She loves us so many in the beginning and it was horrifying when

I went to that conference in DC because I was Sheologians is a pun.

I don't like it like the reason that the show is named sheologians was because I was just like They were like, well, what do you what should we title the show?

And I was like, I don't know I'm bad at titles and then Everybody who asked me a first sermon title

I go I did not get Adam's job in the garden.

I was not It would be animal It's not right it's not my job and so I was just like you guys figure it out and You guys do that and they were like sheologians and I was like, whatever.

This is my hobby. I don't really care But now it's your job and now it's my job and you know,

I now I'm Consistently higher on the iTunes charts than you and I have to live with the name

And so anyway back to the conference So when we went to the conference, I was like meeting these, you know

We're in DC and I'm meeting these flakes I think I met like a congressman and like these journalists and people who just they do they live in this world

I don't understand and so they're trying to understand. Well, why are you speaking at this conference? Who are you and I was like, do

I really have to tell people the name of the program that I do? I'm a sheologian like So it's this pun that I just have to like really embrace then well and you guys do because you every time you do

I was trying to think of some way of Putting the her in something and you we just have to keep it going at this point

It just is what it is and people think it's funny and I do She or just always her it's she and or her and I gave up trying to we open the show with like We're here to put the she and or her and and it's it's impossible

Like I have gone through all of the words that make sense. So I think on this week's show We're talking about Christian Liberty.

So I said we're here to put the her and Her It's just bad and you guys just have to get on board with it like that's just that's how it is

Notice that rich took bets there. He said we don't do it. Oh, you guys are on iTunes and you guys are on iTunes

That's but that's not well, it's not I know it's fine. It's fine. You don't have to be offended.

It's fine It's just a little bit of competition to reality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, not on purpose

So, so yeah, okay, so you have to explain that and so once you get past the name, yeah

How do you explain what it is that you? focus on I Mean, what do you focus on?

I mean, okay You've talked about a bunch of stuff, right?

Yeah, but there is a need there's sort of a focus isn't it? Yes, so We do this weird thing that we didn't realize we were doing and I think it's taken me two and a half years to pick up that This is what we're doing.

But so joy is my co -host and she's she's also a co -host on apology radio and she works for apology studios and When we started, you know, we'd be like, what are we gonna talk about this week and we still do that but I think what we

Have really started what we realized we were doing is we're paying attention to what women were talking about like what is going on with women

That we think would be worthwhile to address. So I think when we first started

You know some of the things we talked about were just who we are Why we're confessional things like that and then one day we realized that if both of us weren't

Christians, we would probably be feminist Mmm, and so we were like, let's talk about that Like if we weren't believers, we would totally be feminists and so we did this four -part series on feminism and that month that we released those was the first Women's March and so when we released those episodes and When I went to the

Women's March and interviewed people And put that video out that video went viral and those episodes were doing well and so that's really kind of when we discovered like okay, if we really talk about issues that are facing women issues that we know that we're facing and then try to put them through a

Biblical lens that people just find that helpful. And so we've had to make a lot of decisions over the last couple years

About whether or not we would tackle a topic that would make people not like us potentially

And it was just never really a question because I learned from you and because Joy is who she is

We're just like we've just been tackling things that you know a lot of times the people that listen to us a lot of the feedback that we get is like Your conversation made me really uncomfortable and it really convicted me and thank you

Like that's kind of our audience like I'm not out to just like lay conviction now, but I think

You know soft teaching makes hard hearts and we don't want to be a hard -hearted people.

So or as someone else I know said sermonettes make for Christian it's

Like that, okay He messes that through a Jeff Durbin sermon

Cuz those are long. Those are not sermonette. No, they're not No, this is actually after a shorter sermon from Pastor Frye, okay, he said now remember sermonettes make for Christian tough audience tough crowd

Yeah, you know, I've been preaching an apology a bit and I I do tend to be a little bit shorter.

Yeah It's Durbin sermons are notorious for their length and their awesomeness

So anyway Yeah, that's a you just redid your series on Feminism because you had

What had just so much more experience with it since then? Well, I wasn't kidding when I said the election of Donald Trump just gave us so much material.

I mean Yeah, so I we just had

Jeff on the show that was probably one of my favorite episodes Surprise it was an hour and 20 minutes, but it was great.

Yeah. Yeah somebody else on recently actually had to be Two -part. I know right right now

So yeah, we decided to redo the episodes on feminism not really redo but kind of you know

We both knew that if we had done the feminism series now, it would be different not just because We are used to podcasting together now, but because so much has happened since Trump was elected and so much has happened within feminism

So when we originally did the feminism episodes if you just want to look purely at statistics feminism was really dying

I think only like 38 % of women Back then which was a couple years ago

Would have identified as feminists and that's changing and I think it's particularly changing among Christians Because of the me too movement.

And so we just decided this is something not only would we have done we would do differently, but there's just a lot more to say so we did that again in January and We plan on doing it the whole month of January and then

I got somehow I got Nancy Piercey to come on the show which was just like a moment of That was that was it for me.

I was like I can just quit now quit now quit now It wasn't when you had Michael Kruger I Was Nancy Piercey, I mean and you know

So her the work that she's doing the book that she put out last year loved by body was had really become a textbook for us because When you know, she's a student of Schaefer and our whole argument against feminism was that you don't need

Feminism because we have everything we need in Scripture to give Women their value and worth that your value and worth can only really be rooted in being made in the image of God and so her book kind of said all of that too, and it was just kind of like this big like light bulb for us and The way that she put everything in her book.

And so yeah having Nancy Piercey on to kick off 2019 was Just goals, but you but you gotta you gotta keep working toward, you know

There's got to be something exciting out there yet. You want to do who else do you want to have on? Camille Paglia, I'd love to talk to Camille.

She's my one of my favorite atheists Who's on my list?

I mean, I have Rosario Butterfield on twice and that was incredible I mean, you know, we had

Tom Askew on and he's really become sorry about my phone and Tom Askew is just having him on was incredible That's another podcast.

I'd recommend you guys listen to he does a podcast with Jared Longshore. That's incredible. Um, I don't know

I'm so happy and Yeah, I'm trying not to not be ambitious but I just feel like Wow, I've really had a lot of the people on that that really just are our heroes in the faith.

I mean Most your programs are not with guests though. No, no, no. No, we're not a guest show

I mean most people they listen because they like the dynamic that joy and I have and so that's just kind of What people say they listen for and if you hate us you it's because you hate our dynamic

And also that we step on all of your toes So I feel fine with So so you've pretty much just given up on getting into the social justice group and being favorites amongst them and this was feminists the

LGBTQ the social justice folks We've lost How can you have any audience at all last a lot of friends?

I think that the majority of Christians who are trying to be faithful They don't really you know

What I hear a lot is I would never hear any of this stuff if I didn't get online So I wouldn't be hearing about these issues if it wasn't for social media

So I think a lot of the people who are just faithfully attending their churches every week and they're faithful part of their churches

A lot of them aren't hearing this stuff yet. So it's just not really on their radar The reason

I think it's worthwhile to talk about is because I don't think that's gonna be true for much longer But they're there but unless they're homeschooling their kids their kids right hearing it.

Yeah Crammed down the throat. Sure And I think that they're just people just aren't really prepared for that.

I'm sorry about my phone. I need to go turn that off Yeah, their kids are hearing about it but your kids don't really

I mean how does a kid explain yeah, you know How are they gonna explain? It out if you don't know what it's right

So that's why we talked about it is that it's not gonna be true much longer that you can't

Know what this is and that's why I mean we started talking about intersectionality back in 2017 and not because we had been you know going to schools and hearing about it, but because Essentially if you have your pulse,

I think on what's going on in women's groups then you're thank you then you are

You're gonna know what's coming up in the cultural landscape like women Women are the consumers and women are the ones who are really pushing intersectionality

So long before intersectionality became this thing that you just have to accept. I saw it

Crumbling like circles of people around me And so I was like we have to talk about this and obviously joy was right on board

Because she saw it too and I was just like this is huge This is what is gonna keep happening.

Like this is not gonna be an isolated incident because I really was watching so many circles of groups dissolving into just Hatred for each other and it was it was they were all women

And so when women are mean to women, oh Women are horrible. No one's meaner to women than other women.

Oh, I've talked about that with your mother many many times I'm like man guys are so much nicer women so much nicer.

Um, they're just so much nicer I don't know what it is So that was something we decided to talk about a long time ago and kind of I wanted to make it my business to Really understand what intersectionality was because I was like you don't

You know, I know I bet I do So let's just do it

I mean if you Intersectionality is a religion. And so if you don't buy into the religion, then you are an apostate or a heretic just get out and so Yeah, that was so if you get an intersectionality, are you also woke?

Yeah, you can't be woke unless you are a part of that religion so it really was driven from a place of joy, and I Totally recognize that without Christ we would totally buy all of this

I mean, but you're in an intersectionality would eventually divide you two. Yeah, eventually I mean, it's just true.

But I mean if you think about it and we I try to talk about this before that Intersectionality among friends is like never gonna be a good thing because I remember, you know joy sharing that like as a single woman

You know her experience if you if she elevated her experience of being single

It would be really hard to relate to all of her friends who were married and having kids and that was something that she wanted

But she that's not what was happening And so it's just interesting how these ideas like they really are tearing friends apart

Because when you have this lens of like your experience being how you have to translate the world

Like the the end of that is just resentment and so that was one reason why we were like we have to talk about this

And it's not because we're not interested in hearing about other people's experience But I think we all know within our own simple hearts

But when your experience becomes how you have to translate everything else in the world

All you can be is bitter Didn't you just describe the political process in the

United States today? Yeah, for sure identity politics. Mm -hmm. Yeah, for sure Which has led to the most divided non -functional form of government we've ever seen.

Yeah, and it seems to have the same impact in the church Yeah, it does have the same impact in the church and I'm really thankful.

I had a moment and this is really just Are you ready? This is too.

This is too personal. We're going there. I have a question for you I had a moment with a friend who like I'm so glad she called me out because and it had nothing to do with Intersectionality, but it was one of them.

I was living out one of the main tenets of intersectionality, which was my experience how

I'm feeling This thing I'm experiencing is It's like this is the only way

I can translate anything and our friendship was suffering because I was basically telling her like you just You don't understand how hard I have it.

You just can't understand and I love her so much Because she was just like I think you need pray

Because I think that you are really focusing on yourself too much right now And I love you, and I'm here for you, and I don't think you can hear

I don't think you can hear how you sound and I need you to think about it And I was like, okay, and I did and I was just like this girl, you know

And that's this is what I'm getting at is that this person Would have had no idea what intersectionality was

She had no idea what was going on in the world But because she's just this faithful woman in a church who knows scripture.

She was able to give me wisdom call me to repentance in a biblical way and it brought me out of that and I was just like this is what we need in our churches

Like we need we need people in our churches who are competent to counsel each other like we're supposed to be

Based on biblical truth It doesn't matter about your your social location and your gender and all these things like the person who knows

Scripture is the person who's competent to counsel you whether or not they've experienced what you've experienced

And that was just a really eye -opening moment for me I mean,

I was just I was just being a selfish brat But the fact that she had scripture and was able to bring that to me in a way that was gonna change how

I was viewing my situation my Experience and so that I could view it not just not just change it and make it better but make it biblical

That's what we need to be able to do in our churches. We need to be able to do more than just Recognize ideology that's bad, but also well, what's the truth here?

and so That's that's our audience that's who we're speaking to that's who we want to speak to I'm really not interested in winning some like You know,

I'm active on social media, but that's not like where my heart is. I just did a whole episode talking about how

I think if you're active on social media as a woman and your house is falling apart around you and you're not really serving in your first ministry

That you're fighting for Satan's team, but that's because that's what first Timothy says about you not me and so I'm really not

As much as I love social media and I want to use social media for good Like I really believe that getting women to be in the world be in the word manage their households

The view themselves rightly in light of Scripture like those those are the women that I want to talk to every week

So, so if you were a being a selfish brat, I guess that means your parents fail I Mean everyone's a selfish brat all the time and you need to realize when you're being a selfish brat

Go ahead No before someone starts writing Yeah Yeah, well,

I think that will happen. I think every single day I think we would all be so much better off if Every time we were being selfish brats

We realized it breached the gospel to ourselves like show me one person who doesn't Doesn't have a bratty thought during the day.

Like it's just So we all do it. Yeah. Yeah, so so you've already mentioned

You know It's not like you have grand plans to Take over the entire podcasting universe

And and wipe out everybody else's audience, even though you didn't make that iTunes comment in passing

Hey when you win it something Okay, I guess

I have to break out tic -tac -tower No one else in this house can beat me.

Oh, I sounds like a challenge All right We gotta keep popping out of the camera

I Rich said oh No, this is out. I haven't done that yet. That's not that's that's that we can't you're not even the same state

You're gonna find a way to argue with them. Yes Well, yes

That's sort of how the dividing line works, so that's That's how it works. Anyway, yeah, so you're not you're not trying to do that And so it's not like you have a five or ten year plan.

No, it's basically 2020 is going to be fascinating.

Yeah Politically, that's gonna raise all sorts of issues. Yeah, and that seemingly is going to result in all sorts of stuff

Within the church. I mean the amount of change I have seen I Mean, you know the program we did on the shepherds conference

Q &A was huge I have people in my church that don't normally listen to the show that tuned in for that.

Yeah, and Interestingly enough I now have more background information on that than I did then but the point is that a

Lot of I think there were a lot of people in that Q &A. I had no idea That these kinds of fault lines existed and all of a sudden they're going

Believe me it is possible People who have assumed

That every person on that stage they're all lockstep together and Then discover that that's not the case that can be very troubling to people and very disconcerting disorienting to people.

Sure and I'm having to talk about things in the program. I've never thought

I know I mean, I still talk about the old stuff.

We still talk about Mormonism, but funny now when I talk about Mormonism It's how much it's changing. Yeah, it's not so much focusing.

I know King Follett discourse But no, but the twelve apostles and the first presidency just met with the

Pope in Rome all dedicated the Roman temple It's just like and a lot of the Mormons that I know are very pro

LGBT which is that has left me stunned. I have I've talked with a few

Mormons who are Saddened by what they're seeing happening in their own church

Yeah, and who've been honest enough to say I don't get that either. Yeah, I because Because well,

I mentioned that to the young man that Jeff and I did the discussion with an apology

Yeah, and he ended up being the head of the Young Democrats at BYU so Here you have someone, you know,

I'm like, but but your God is gendered. I mean your God is is literally a

Gendered male that has Yeah billions of spirit offspring, which means he is engaged in sexual acts billions of times

So it's sort of hard for me to understand how you can buy into the gender fluid spectrum type

Argumentation. I mean you just have to anymore and I think so the people I know who are saying that are also for Polygamy and so essentially if you're gonna be for you know

The the argument for that they're making for polygamy now isn't I think the historical not an argument

But it's the argument that love is love And you can't there's a deep thought.

It's so incredible And so love is love. And so how can you tell someone who they can or can't love and that's really the best argument in 2019 for you know, gay marriage and all that though.

The Salt Lake leadership is scared to death I mean, it's crumbling. Yeah, well, there's good.

Well, they have to be because they don't want it, right? That's way too complex for them to handle. They don't want it, but they see it's coming anyway

Yeah, and the the politics in Utah fascinating stuff But anyways, that's the stuff that I was dealing with for years and years and years and years.

What was that young kid? Iron was his name iron steel steel steel iron copper steel

Did you ever saw a little little crush going on on steel I can't believe you're doing this To the

Easter pageant and One of they had he only did that like two or three years. I think where they had the centurions

Yeah, the Roman guards would come out Not actual

Roman guards But they heard of the show, but they were all over six feet.

Yes. I don't think they chose a single one It was actually less play for you guys. I don't know

Mormon Easter pageant in Mesa Yeah, which currently is on hiatus Did you know that the temple the

Mesa temple is being renovated and there is no Easter pageant? Oh, yeah, and probably won't be for a couple years. Yeah, and so There's actually some discussion of not bringing it back even when the temple the attendants go down, um

Again Mormonism is changing and how they want to try to reach people's changing and Putting on a pageant that makes us look like a bunch of Christians.

Maybe not Highlighted my year going out to the Christmas and the

Easter pageant was and handing out trucks to Mormons was my favorite one year

There was this I forget what his name was There was a big centurion and we had a conversation we kept having conversations with them

They're very serious theological conversations and he had a son that was running around out there as most

Mormon kids do I mean, they've been to the Easter pageant 47 ,000 right if they don't care anymore. It's just a social

But his name was steel, yeah, and you two did you two start talking or Yeah, it's about your age wasn't it?

Yeah, we were I don't know 11 or 12 or something and you know, our dads would always be talking you guys would always be having these deep theological conversations and So I made him cry was

Cuz you know, I pulled that trick of how do you know, you know, they don't you know, yes Yeah, I know

Plus it's hard. Um You know you how do they know Mormonism is true? Well, they prayed and they have the burning bosom or whatever

And so I made him read I think it's Proverbs 28 26 The man who trusts in his heart as a fool and he like read it and he cried and he ran away

But I think you know, we just I did I we talked every night he was out there what did you do go?

Yes, um, I don't know. Did you feel badly for making the poor little Mormon boy cry?

I think it prayed for his conviction I Really I remember

I remember praying that he would leave Mormonism and and I really wanted him to just you know get saved

And so I thought you know smacking him over the head with a proverb was

Obviously the way to do that. I don't know who I learned it from I Know So, yeah, that was so you look surprised that they weren't doing that.

Yeah Yeah, I see I'm so old I remember

Back when they had renovated it before and so do we need to renovate it again means it's been a long time

Yeah, and of course those big big temples like Mesa temple. Yeah are the unusual ones now

I don't think you've seen the one up on the pinnacle peak, but it's basically a mega size

Ward chapel, it's just so they're a lot cheaper to maintain, right? So that's what they're doing these days.

But anyways, Mormonism is Changing and not immune from the culture.

No, it's more it is far more Susceptible to the culture because of the lack of an objective truth foundation

Within it and so I don't know what more of this is gonna look like 20 years from now, but the way it's changing

I wouldn't be surprised to see some LGBTQ profit or something in the future

The way the way it's going which is gonna result in a split and that's it's gonna it's gonna cause cause issues

There's no question about it but anyway All of that actually was a diversion from the fact that I don't have a five -year plan that you don't have

I don't I don't even have a one -month plan for for the dividing line because I as things come up as articles appear as Shepherds Conference Q &A's take place as As old mainline

Christian publishers start cranking out all sorts of wild -eyed heresy and Social justice stuff and everything else.

You just have to be free to respond to this stuff. Yeah, and I've been saying that 2020 or 2024 one of the two is going to bring a wild -eyed progressivist president to United States and If especially if both houses of Congress end up going that direction as well we are going to see such

Rapid diminishment of our freedoms that I don't know what even our programs are gonna look like or even how they're gonna be available because Everything that Apologia does

Studios. Yeah, you know so much of that is based upon the ease of access

You know If people had to work hard To watch there would be a lot fewer people watching right and In the future people are gonna have to work a lot harder

Yeah, I think initially we're gonna have to be doing stuff offshore and stuff like that But it's still gonna be sort of available

But you're gonna have to be worker weaker working hard to get it and that means the the audience goes down the support goes down things things change and I See that coming.

Yeah. Now, of course you and your brother like to refer to me as What would you like to?

Debbie downer Debbie downer That's right Yeah, you know the difference

I've hung around Yes, I see riches uploading files from McDonald's in the middle of no servers in Sweden.

Thank you We appreciate we really do need a rich camp. We have a rich camp. I want

I've hung around them. I've hung around the post Millennials enough. I don't know what it is

I'm not saying I don't care Because I care I care about religious freedom obviously,

I want my show to keep happening, but I kind of just feel like I Really wouldn't

I think we're a nation under judgment and I think if we were a lot off the face of the earth that I just wouldn't be surprised

I mean the blood that we have on our hands is incredible And I think

I mean, how long did democracies like this normally last now I sound like you yeah

I'm totally fine with it though. My point is And by the way,

I'm okay. I had a conversation I had a conversation with the bearded one about that. Uh -huh because of the eschatological implications

Believing that we're under the judgment of God and he agreed with me Okay, even if you're a post -millennialist that doesn't mean that any one culture or nation itself is going to be

Getting better and God has wiped out all sorts of cultures and nations before so sure

I just saw somebody on Twitter a few weeks ago saying well you go to apology You know, so don't don't they think that everything's just getting better and better and better all the time and it's like no

That's not Right, and if God doesn't grant repentance to any one particular culture, then he has already wiped out entire nations

Since the coming of Christ, so obviously that's not right I'm just kind of in a good mood about it because uh, which is calling how

Lindsay. I don't know what that is Who's how Lindsay? Oh Let me know who how

Lindsay Somebody anybody I don't know You just dated yourself so the late great planet

Earth one of the Biggest selling books in the 1970s.

It was the book about I Certainly, you know thief in the night

Sure The biggest VHS say a rental movie ever a thief in the night.

I haven't you haven't seen a thief in the night. Oh My goodness, I have failed completely

If you have not watched a thief in the night you have not seen the nature of evangelical eschatology in the 1970s and 80s.

I don't want to see it. Oh, yes you do. Oh, yes, you do all you Shush shush shush shush shush got the logins fail

Yes, eschatologians fail. Oh Believe me when you see that lawnmower

Sitting there running because the Rapture has taken place You gotta understand there in in in my generation there there there are still people there people my generation

Yeah that when I mentioned that they get a cold sweat Because they would want No, they would show that movie at retreats and stuff like at midnight and they would literally the people

It's a Christian horror movie it's it's a Christian movie about the Rapture and then the seven years of tribulation and what happens and Yes, yes

And you've been left behind. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, oh my goodness I cannot believe you have not seen that you must get online and you must

To you know, just simply for church history research purposes if for nothing else you have to watch

It sounds terrible. Oh It is absolutely classic. It was

Mmm Wow. Okay. So see folks see that I I grew up so sheltered

We failed That I didn't show my children See a thief in the night.

I remember. Well, here's a funny story. I remember Grandma and grandpa your parents had the left -behind series.

Oh and they would have they would have they would have shown No, let me tell my story. So I've shown that movie over again

I know so one time I was bored and I went through a library and I started reading left behind and I remember

Bringing I was like grandpa. Can I bring this home? And he was like, I don't think your dad should see that And I was like,

I don't know what's happening here So I'm just gonna leave this here.

I guess Yes, oh Man, how Lindsay?

Oh Anyway, the whole point is I'm just I'm in a good mood about it because I just feel like whatever's gonna happen gonna happen

Okay, so toss it off. Yeah. Well, no just like I my only thing that I really want to make sure

I do is give my kids a life that can Hopefully handle the turbulence that's coming their way like anything

So like if anything stresses me out It's the fact that like I don't want to raise kids who who can't handle any

Difficulty because I think they're gonna have a lot of difficulty like more than we can probably even

Foresee at the moment because we're we're bad prophets and so my concern

You know all that. I'm really just worried about is can I do that?

Can I give them the foundation? Can I make sure I don't raise kids that look like the rest of this generation's kids because then they might survive

And be able to build something out of the ashes But really I just feel like I mean five -year plan, you know, join

I were talking about a couple weekends ago and she's up here it's like we're just gonna keep doing she illusions as long as it makes sense and as long as we feel like we're growing as well not growing numbers wise but Growing like in what we're doing

And then I'm just gonna raise my kids and see what happens and that's

Rich suggested you will need to teach them how to camp if you want that. Well, they have a dad I Guess not really like I would love the nation to repent but as far as what

I'm doing what joy and I are trying to do is we're just trying to push people to grow in faithfulness and as long as we're growing in faithfulness, like I'm you know, if somebody

I'm going to a good place like I've got hope Yeah, but the next the next

I would say in the next six years that takes us through 2025 We are going to be faced

With some of the decisions that many of our brothers and sisters have already had to face.

Yeah in Europe. Yeah For example in Germany, you cannot homeschool, right?

So what do you do terrifying? What if you do if you're a Christian parent, right and and and you know

That if it's not in, California first, it'll be Oregon, Washington, New York Right something like that where they will ban that right and it'll go to the

Supreme Court and but eventually it doesn't matter what Supreme Court does because all you have to do is did you see the

Leftist activists going after Clinton not Hillary Clinton, but Yeah Yeah Part of me wants to believe the left is just gonna so eat itself, right that it will self

Just single people right on fighting each other and the right they won't have any but right but I don't think that's what cycle

It's gonna happen, but it's possible. The the point is those kinds of people are going to Say no

No to homeschooling. No to the hatred. No to the bigotry, you know, all this all this kind of stuff so much depth

Oh, so well, you can't expect depth of thought from these folks. They've never they've never they don't know what depth of thought is

They've cut themselves off from history So we're gonna be asked to make a lot of decisions as to what is compromised and what is not compromised so over the next

I'd say six years and Right now with the way it's going. It's Yeah, not looking good given

What we're seeing and and people that we thought were right next to us lockstep with us on things that are now there they've gone far far away and The social justice thing has has brought a tremendous amount of division as it was designed to do

That's it's very nature is to divide and have no possible way of reconciliation That's the funny thing is that we seek racial reconciliation

However, our system does not have any way of actually producing it So that means it's a constant searching for it and that's means without division, right?

That's gonna that's gonna continue on I read a tweet. Yeah, I read a tweet today that said exactly that that you will you'll never reach allyship

It's it's an ongoing you're always going to have to Admit your wrongness and there's really like reconciliation is essentially not possible

So yeah, you know a lot of people have been saying what you're saying, and I think the response is no, that's not true

But then it's like well if you look at what's out there if you look at what the people in Academia are saying if you just read

Twitter for a little bit and get a pulse on the conversation like it's very clear That you can never repent enough for your whiteness

You can never really be an ally You're just gonna mess up being an ally over and over and over like it's you're never going to arrive

Like reconciliation is actually not possible So that's not the goal.

That's not the goal And and it's sad to see people I've seen so many people who were right with us

And and they're in fellowship with us and now they wouldn't they can't say our names without spitting

Yeah, and where did it all come from? It came from a slow embracing what sounded good

And so once you buy the whole thing, then you realize it's a it's a poison pill situation I mean between that and the me too movement

I've lost a lot of friends and that it you know It is what it is.

I hate it, but I think we can be at peace as long as we are

Sticking to biblical principles like that's just that's just like the point isn't to keep friends

It's to be at peace with all men as long as it's up to you and in these situations

Like sometimes it's really just not up to you You can either be a coward and kowtow which is

I think cowardly and just something that I can't do And keep your friends But honestly, if that's like if that's what they're demanding of you that you agree to all this like Let me show you the door

We don't like the door hit you on the way out. That's somebody else So folks though Very few people are actually watching this iTunes because we're so small

But you can look up sheologians if you happen to be in that very small number of people who watch this program that already didn't do that and and subscribe and catch some enjoys comments and Yeah, you know

I but you know, I'm just very thankful some of that you've allowed me to come on and to help Yeah, you needed it right your ratings among Millennials was just horrible that's true

I do seem to reach out to only a much older demographic. It's can barely use computers

I didn't say that You hear that for me, there you go.

All right. Well folks There you are from Las Vegas I Think I'm going off top my head

I'm pretty certain that I leave toward the end of next week for the South Texas Bible Conference So we'll probably and there'll probably be some sort of a shift of the programs earlier in the week

So we can get them in and then I'll be with Justin Peters down in South Texas and the weekend after that is up in Was it

Morgan Hill south of San Jose? Does someone know where he's going? It's on Go teach this stuff here.

Okay, cool. That's what I'll do and then a few weeks after that we're talking London twice and the

Netherlands and stuff like that. See aren't you fancy? Has nothing to do with iTunes, but I so and London Moss Yeah, yes ever really wants to be invited to London.

So maybe you know, there's there's some Some churches So it could happen

I just want to go to London sometimes I just play in bed and think about it Yeah, I've tried finding

I don't have that kind of time long. Have I been buying you? You know mind the gap. I know

I want all the London things. I want mind the gap t -shirts I want all the ones but you'd rather ride.

Yes Yes, I want to go to the eye and I want to do all those things. Yeah, that's my dream

But anyways, I won't mention anyhow so next week this is why I am the way

I am Oh, hi Jeff, how you doing? Hey man, yes, you have a

Clementine always if you if you guys listen to Jeff it he never says. Hi. He says hey, man, and Whenever Clementine does her

Jeff impression she goes. Hey, man, and I told him about it and he was like, oh, that's so true

Like he hadn't realized But Clementine had picked up on it. So hey, man is

Pastor Jeff. You should like trademark that Or theology matters, but molar still left for me

So anyway, we can keep going on here forever, but I'm sure rich has important stuff to be doing back there

He's already stopped. This isn't even on Okay, thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time god bless

Give me just a second