Live Dividing Line from Las Vegas with Summer of Sheologians (and the Grandkids)

Well greens, welcome to the dividing line. My name is James white coming to you from a blustery Las Vegas, Nevada and today is a family integrated version. Which which means. If you've ever been to a family integrated church you you learn to adjust to.

Minor.

Distractions and things like that, especially children and.

And.

Generally, not dogs. But that might happen as well. There is one back there. In fact, I can just see her in the frame there. That's that's penny if you all want to say hi to penny pins back there in in the corner.

But I am in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm not gonna it's it's sort of a secret location. So we won't give you any more information than that because we're coming to you from the worldwide headquarters of.

Of.

Sheologians and I you know, I got this feeling. Because at some point I forget what the context was I said something to summer about having on the program and it's sort of like yeah, dad We've had you on my program a bunch of times you've never had me on yours before and so I just got this this feeling this the sense that maybe there was some pent-up Animosity or something there and I'm sort of like, you know I have mentioned it a number of times and I just wanted to make sure that you know You you all got a good start based upon the quality of the material you're producing things like that.

So anyway, so I announced last week that our last program on Monday that if I managed to survive the trip up here which I did that we would be Coming to you from up here. And so we have really high-tech stuff here.

It's called a laptop on a desk very high high-tech. So watch as I move the camera. Ah. She doesn't care about any of this but coming to you from well, you know, it's a I'm gonna say it's approximately a five-hour trip, but it's Less for other people, but I just won't tell the Nevada State Troopers that you can make it in considerably less time than I do.

It takes me a solid five hours. Okay. All right, they stop a lot. Well, oh and by the way, the the little place we both stop in Wikia in wikia. Yes. I mentioned you to them I said I said my daughter comes down like every two weeks and all the stops here and they're like well Thank you very much.

This is a family business. So say thank you for us so I Wouldn't call that a time that's you.

Know and it's quaint.

That particular that particular gas station is yeah.

There I just like that they have. I Actually don't know what I like. They do have really good honey there. Yeah, they sell honey. I buy honey for the kids. I don't know.

I just like it there. So if you're ever in on the state route, that's 93 there. Isn't it? It's 93 run state route 93 in in Arizona and you hit wikia. Yeah, now you have to be careful because you go straight through without even noticing it.

It's not true. You slow down 45 miles an hour.

They stop you.

This is true, but it's on the West side of West side. No, um, yes.

West side West side.

Anyways, it's it's a nice place. It's got a little restaurant there, which I've never eaten. I've never.

Was I would never eat at the restaurant?

I'm sure it's a fine restaurant. Anyways, why are we talking about that. Every two weeks summer drives all the way down to Phoenix, Arizona to Watches Tempe Tempe. Yes to the apology of studios where she enjoy.

Record she allergens and. So that started in.

September 2016.

Three years in September. It's coming up. Well, that was just before President Trump was elected. I think there's any connection.

Okay, we won't go there. Helped my show quite a bit really. His election. Yeah.

Gave me so many things to talk about. Oh, I bet so. Well, yeah, there's been a lot of development since there. No toys. Yeah, but anyway since we're gonna be doing it from from the home here. I thought it would be wise Initially to take care of the child issue.

Because.

Now now Janie, I don't think really cares one way or the other but but the older kids have seen the dividing line on The the TV screen. Yeah, they know. And Clementine has been on the program. Well, actually I think I think Cadence's right ear was on the program a few weeks ago with Clementine.

They were in the doghouse outside. Which was a really horrifying moment for me as a mother. Oh. And they like went outside and hung out in the doghouse.

Well, okay, all right. Understand. Anyways, so we thought the best way to do this would be just to have each of the kids Say hello, and then they can go do something else once the excitement wears off because they've now been on the program.

So we thought we'd start with the youngest.

Danny so Janie. I don't know if she's gonna play along. JJ. Come here. You want to say hi me, Danny. I don't know. She's gonna be.

Danny do you want to come here for a second so I could hold you just for a second.

Okay, and she's bringing a pinball machine. She's bringing her pin. I mean just naturally. Okay. Yes.

So this is Jenny our youngest. There you are and we're on the dividing line right now. Isn't that cool? Yeah, no, you don't want to say shoes off because you know, you don't worry about that. Do you so do you want to say?

Hi, everybody. Oh, hi.

Look at this years from now and go. Wow. But then of course the next in line would be Clementine and Clementine has been on. You can stand between mommy and me. There you go. Clementine was on the program before.

What'd you say? So, are you are you on a jungle gym right now, is that what you're doing standing between. And the kids were looking at themselves in the in the screen before. But so now you do you remember recording?

Your debate with Pastor Jeff. You said do you have a chin and then do you remember what he asked you about. He asked you about Frozen and he kept messing all the words up to frozen and you kept correcting stuff like that.

Yeah, so you like Pastor Jeff. It's been a while, that's all. So well, so do you. Are you are you excited to be on the program? Do you like when pongo comes up to visit. Do you like when I take you out to.

A.

Okay, she doesn't know so then we have The poor guy. He's not poor. He's very rich. The poor guy that has to put up with three sisters and that means he he has the patience I Was gonna say of Joe, but Joe was a little more patient.

So and and we happen to be wearing. We happen to wearing plaid together today, so this is Waylon come on Waylon. So, all right, so you're the guy that that has the job of protecting all the girls, right?

Yeah.

Like last night. That's right, I snuck into the girls room last night and scared Clementine half to death. And here comes Waylon to protect protect the gals.

So.

Is it is it really that bad having three sisters.

It's okay. He's good at it. Yes, you're doing a good job and.

Sure looks familiar.

That's why I Saw you once. When did when did your dad shave your head?

Remember. No. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Yeah, and I was like, hey as long as you can grow a kid keep growing it because someday it may all go away.

I know my.

Cut it. Okay. Okay, good good. Well, this is Waylon and Waylon is the young man of the family. So. The girls girls need to have a good young man. Thank you, son. Thank you.

So.

That's three of the four that summer is is Teaching right now and. So the last is our oldest so let's have Cadence come on now, of course. No, no cadence. Let me ask you a question when I was.

Your age.

If my mom or dad Said James Robert, I knew I was in trouble.

So.

When when your parents want to. You're gonna be in trouble. Yeah, they know they call you Kate or Katie right. So they ever it does. What cadence necessarily mean you were in trouble or is it. You're in trouble, okay.

All right. I just wonder if you know cuz Clem is Clem, but do you know if she gets in trouble? Is she Clementine?

My mom usually calls me and Eric sometimes calls me.

Okay, so I don't think we really do that no really do that no.

So you have to.

It's tough being the oldest.

Because you have to give an example for the others and obviously people expect you to Don't know help out with the others. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? It's a good thing. Of course it is. Of course.

It's a good thing. In fact, I remember Early on my first visit up here. I remember Jenny needed to have her Bite rejected and You dive right in there and got the stuff and helped out. So. And you're gonna be you're gonna have two numbers in your age before long And then to the teen years before long.

Oh goodness. And notice the shirt here notice see the shirt folks. See what that is. Those are the three cages on the Munster. Where would she have gotten a shirt like that? No one knows. Well, I'm doing a good job, thank you very much.

Thanks, all right guys there I see Eric Asking you all to go in there. So we'll we'll catch y 'all later. There they are. I bet you they keep you busy, huh? Super busy. And do you get any illustrations for geologians?

From yeah life experiences. Yeah.

It's funny when Kate will listen to sheologian sometimes and she'll be like you say that to me all the time.

Well, she was sitting next to me last night. I started talking to her about stuff and she says yeah mom says that all the.

Man I feel like I have like 20 existential conversations a day with the kid because homeschooling just. That's what you have to do. Well.

They want to have those conversations and they really can't have them in a public school. They end up having them with people that are equally immature with themselves. Yes in that context. Or with a wild-eyed leftist teacher.

Who's had 20 of those conversations already today with other kids as it is. So yeah there. There you go. Um. Drives like I do. I'm just now looking at riches notes here.

He's saying I drive like him which means responsible and well, oh I see I see. Oh, yes.

That was back at the the issue of how long it takes to get the Phoenix. Yeah the text thing is sometimes hard to.

So.

Yeah, I.

You know when I listen to sheologians I Think back to how that all started. Yeah, and I asked you a little while ago if if you were planning on paying pastor Luke any royalties. No.

He gets his payment in fame. Oh, well. Because have you ever. Yes, and we invited him on the show and we acknowledged that so pastor Luke is The one who named the show and he does that weird scream in the beginning.

So it would have been better.

If.

You're thankful that I didn't start the program off by saying Sheologians means that you all think that God is a female right. And because I've seen that. Yeah, I've. Actually. I mean how many times have you had a plane?

She loves us so many in the beginning and it was horrifying when I went to that conference in DC because I was. Sheologians is a pun. I don't like it like the reason that the show is named sheologians was because I was just like.

They were like, well, what do you what should we title the show? And I was like, I don't know.

I'm bad at titles and then that's what I everybody who asked me a first sermon title. I go.

I did not get Adam's job in the garden. I was not.

It would be animal.

I don't it's not right. It's not my job. And so I was just like you guys figure it out and You guys do that and they were like sheologians and I was like, whatever. This is my hobby. I don't really care.

But now it's your job and now it's my job and you know, I now I'm you know I'm consistently higher on the iTunes charts than you and I have to live with the name. And so anyway back to the conference.

So when we went to the conference I was like meeting these, you know we're in DC and I'm meeting these flakes and I think I met like a Congressman and like these journalists and people who just they do they live in this world.

I don't Understand and so they're trying to understand. Well, why are you speaking at this conference? Who are you and I was like, do I really have to tell people the name of the program that I do? I'm a sheologian like Introduce yourself so it's this pun that I just have to like really embrace then and well and you guys do because you every time you.

Do I was trying to think of some way of putting the her in something?

I mean, we just have to keep it going at this point. It's simple. It just is what it is and people think it's funny and I do. She or just always her it's she and or her and I gave up trying to we open the show with like We're here to put the she and or her and and it's it's impossible.

Like I have gone through all of the words that make sense. So I think on this week's show We're talking about Christian Liberty. So I said we're here to put the her and It's just bad and you guys just have to get on board with it like that's just that's how it is.

Notice that rich took offense there. You said we don't do it. So you guys are on iTunes and you guys are on iTunes.

That's but that's not. Well, it's not I know. It's fine. It's fine. You don't have to be offended. It's fine.

It's just a little bit of competition to reality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, not on purpose. So so yeah, okay, so you have to explain that and so once you get past the name Yeah, how do you explain what it is that you?

Focus on I. Mean, what do you focus on?

I.

Mean, okay. You've talked about a bunch of stuff, right? Yeah, there is a need there's sort of a focus isn't it? Yes, so.

We do this weird thing that we didn't realize we were doing and I think it's taken me two and a half years to pick up that. This is what we're doing. But so joy is my co-host and she's she's also a co-host on apology or reading and she works for apologies studios and When we started, you know, we'd be like, what are we gonna talk about this week?

And we still do that. But I think what we Have really started what we realized we were doing is we're paying attention to what women were talking about. Like what is going on? with women. That we think would be worthwhile to address.

So I think when we first started You know some of the things we talked about we're just who we are. Why we're confessional things like that and then one day we realized that if both of us weren't Christians We would probably be feminists.

And so we were like, let's talk about that like if we weren't believers we would totally be feminists and so we did this four-part series on feminism and that month that we released those was the First Women's March and so when we released those episodes and when I went to the Women's March and interviewed people.

And put that video out that video went viral and those episodes were doing well and so that's really kind of when we discovered like Okay if we really talk about issues that are facing women issues that we know that we're facing and then try to put them through a Biblical lens that people just find that helpful.

And so we've had to make a lot of decisions over the last couple years. About whether or not we would tackle a topic that would make people not like us potentially. And it was just never really a question because I learned from you.

And because Joy is who she is we're just like we've just been tackling things that you know a lot of times the people that listen to us a lot of the feedback that we get is like. Your conversation made me really uncomfortable and it really convicted me and thank you.

Like that's kind of our audience. Like I'm not out to just like lay conviction now, but I think you know soft teaching makes hard hearts and We don't want to be a hard-hearted people so or as someone else I know said.

Sermonettes make for Christian it's.

Like that, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's make for Chris. He must have thought through a Jeff Durbin sermon. Cuz those are long. Those are not sermonette. No, they're not sir.

They're really long. No, this is actually after a shorter sermon from pastor fry, okay, and he said now remember sermon, that's make for Christian a tough audience.

Tough crowd.

Yeah, you know, I've been preaching at apology a bit and I I do tend to be a little bit shorter. Yeah.

Durbin sermons are notorious for their length and their awesomeness. Oh.

I saw.

He can what's that. So anyway. Yeah, that's you just redid your series on Feminism because you. What had just so much more experience with it since then.

Well, I wasn't kidding when I said the election of Donald Trump just gave us so much material. I mean Yeah, so I we just had Jeff on the show that was probably one of my favorite episodes but It was an hour and 20 minutes, but it was great.

Yeah. Yeah somebody else on recently actually had to be too hard I know right now. So, yeah, we decided to redo the episodes on feminism not really redo but kind of you know We both knew that if we had done the feminism series now, it would be different not just because We are used to podcasting together now, but because so much has happened since Trump was elected and so much has happened within feminism.

So when we originally did the feminism episodes if you just want to look purely at statistics Feminism was really dying. I think only like 38 of women Back then which was a couple years ago Would have identified as feminists and that's changing and I think it's particularly changing among Christians Because of the me too movement.

And so we just decided this is something not only would we have done we would do Differently, but there's just a lot more to say so we did that again in January and We plan on doing it the whole month of January and then I got somehow I got Nancy Piercey to come on the show which was just like a moment of That was that was it for me.

I was like I can just quit now, but now I'm quit now.

It wasn't when you had Michael Kruger. Love you guys.

It was Nancy Piercey I mean and you know so her the work that she's doing the book that she put out last year loved by body was had really Become a textbook for us because When you know, she's a student of Schaefer and our whole argument against feminism was that you don't need Feminism because we have everything we need in Scripture to give Women their value and worth that your value and worth can only really be rooted in being made in the image of God.

And so her book kind of said all of that too and it was just kind of like this big like light bulb for us and The way that she put everything in her book. And so yeah having Nancy Piercey on to kick off 2019 with.

Those goals, but you but you gotta you gotta keep working toward, you know. There's got to be something exciting out there yet. You want to do. Who else do you want to have on?

Camille Paglia, I'd love to talk to Camille. She's my one of my favorite atheists. Who's on my list? I mean I have Rosario Butterfield on twice and that was incredible.

Um.

I mean, you know, we had Tom Askew on and he's really become sorry about my phone.

Um.

Tom Askew is just. Having him on was incredible. Um, that's another podcast. I'd recommend you guys listen to. He does a podcast with Jared Longshore. That's incredible. Um I don't know. I'm so happy.

I'm so happy. Yeah, i'm trying not to not be ambitious but I just feel like wow, i've really had a lot of the people on that that really just are our heroes in the faith, I mean. So most of your programs are not with guests though.

No, no, no. No, we're not a guest show. I mean most people they listen because they like. The dynamic that joy and I have and so that's just kind of what people say they listen for. And if you hate us you it's because you hate our dynamic and also that we step on all of your toes.

Um, so I feel fine with.

So.

So you've pretty much just given up on getting into the social justice group and being favorites amongst them. Oh, man. And the feminists, uh the.

Lgbtq.

The social justice folks um.

We've lost a lot of friends. How can you have any audience at all? We've lost a lot of friends. I think that the majority of christians who are trying to be faithful um, they don't really. You know what?

I hear a lot is I would never hear any of this stuff if I didn't get online. So I wouldn't be hearing about these issues if it wasn't for social media. So I think a lot of the people who are just faithfully attending their churches every week and their faithful part of their churches.

A lot of them aren't hearing this stuff yet. So it's just not really on their radar. Um, the reason I think it's worthwhile to talk about is because I don't think that's going to be true for much longer, but.

They're they're. But unless they're homeschooling their kids their kids right hearing it. Yeah.

Crammed down their throats. Sure. Um, and I think that they're just people just aren't really prepared for that. I'm, sorry about my phone. I need to go turn that off. Um I totally forgot about my phone.

Um. Yeah, their kids are hearing about it, but your kids don't really. I mean, how does a kid explain? Yeah, you know. How are they gonna explain it?

Can't filter it out if you don't know what it is, right?

So that's why we talk about it is that it's not going to be true much longer that you can't Know what this is. And that's why I mean we started talking about intersectionality back in 2017 um, and not because we had been you know going to schools and hearing about it, but because.

Essentially if you have your pulse, I think on what's going on in women's groups. Then you're thank you then you are. You're gonna know what's coming up in the cultural landscape like women. Women are the consumers and women are the ones who are really pushing intersectionality.

So long before intersectionality became this thing that you just have to accept. I saw it Crumbling like circles of people around me. And so I was like we have to talk about this and obviously joy was right on board.

Because she saw it too and I was just like this is huge. This is what is going to keep happening. Like this is not going to be an isolated incident because I really was watching so many circles of groups dissolving into just Hatred for each other and it was it was they were all women.

Um, and so when women are mean to women. Oh women are horrible. No one's meaner to women than other women.

Oh, I've talked about that with your mother many many times. I'm like man guys are so much nicer to women so much nicer.

Um, they're just so much nicer, I don't know what it is, so that was something we decided to talk about a long time ago and kind of I wanted to make it my business to Really understand what intersectionality was because I was like, you don't I read it.

But you don't I know I but I do. Um, so that's just all there is to it. I mean if you Intersectionality is a religion. And so if you don't buy into the religion, then you are an apostate. You're a heretic.

Just get out. Um, and so.

Yeah, that was so. If you get an intersectionality, are you also woke?

Yeah, you can't be woke unless you are a part of that religion. So it really was driven from a place of joy, and I Totally recognize that without christ we would totally buy all of this.

I mean, but your intersectionality would eventually divide you two. Yeah, eventually.

I mean, it's just true. But I mean if you think about it and we I tried to talk about this before that.

Uh.

Intersectionality among friends is like never going to be a good thing because I remember. You know joy sharing that like as a single woman, you know her experience. If you if she elevated her experience of being single It would be really hard to relate to all of her friends who were married and having kids and that was something that she wanted.

Um, but she that's not what was happening and so. It's just interesting how these ideas like they really are tearing friends apart. Because when you have this lens of like your experience being how you have to translate the world.

Like the the end of that is just resentment. And so that was one reason why we were like we have to talk about this. Um, and it's not because we're not interested in hearing about other people's experience, but I think we all know within our own simple hearts that When your experience becomes how you have to translate everything else in the world All you can be is bitter.

That's all you can do. Didn't you just describe the political process in the united states today? Yeah for sure. Identity politics. Yeah, for sure, which has led to the most divided Non-functional form of government we've ever seen.

Yeah.

And it seems to have the same impact in the church. Yeah, it does have the same impact in the church. And i'm really thankful. I had a moment and this is really just. Are you ready? This is too. This is too personal.

We're going there. I had a moment with a friend who like i'm so glad she called me out because and it had nothing to do with intersectionality. But it was one of them. I was living out one of the main tenets of intersectionality, which was my experience.

How i'm feeling this thing i'm experiencing is. It's like this is the only way I can translate anything. And our friendship was suffering because I was basically telling her like you just you don't understand how hard I have it.

You just can't understand.

And.

I love her so much because she was just like I think you need to pray. Because I think that you are really focusing on yourself too much right now. And I love you and i'm here for you. And I don't think you can hear I don't think you can hear how you sound.

And I need you to think about it. And I was like, okay and I did and I was just like this girl, you know, and that's this is what i'm getting at. Is that this person. Would have had no idea what intersectionality was.

She had no idea what was going on in the world. But because she's just this faithful woman in a church who knows scripture. She was able to give me wisdom. Call me to repentance. In a biblical way and it brought me out of that.

And I was just like this is what we need in our churches. Like we need we need people in our churches who are competent to counsel each other like we're supposed to be um based on biblical truth. It doesn't matter about your your social location and your gender and all these things like the person who knows Scripture is the person who's competent to counsel you whether or not they've experienced what you've experienced.

Um, and that was just a really eye-opening moment for me.

Uh.

I mean, I was just I was just being a selfish brat um, but the fact that she had scripture and was able to Bring that to me in a way that was going to change how I was viewing my situation my experience.

And so that I could view it not just not just change it and make it better but make it biblical um, that's what we need to be able to do in our churches, we need to be able to do more than just Recognize ideology that's bad.

But also well, what's the truth here? Um, and so. That's that's our audience. That's who we're speaking to. That's who we want to speak to. I'm really not interested in winning some like You know, i'm i'm active on social media, but that's not like where my heart is.

I just did a whole episode talking about how.

Um.

I think if you're active on social media as a woman and your house is falling apart around you and you're not really serving in your first ministry. Um that you're fighting for satan's team, but that's because that's what first timothy says about you not me.

Um, and so I'm, really not. Uh as much as I love social media and I want to use social media for good like I really believe that getting women to Be in the be in the word manage their households. To view themselves rightly in light of scripture like those those are the women that I want to talk to every week.

So so if you were a being a selfish brat, then I guess that means your parents fail.

I mean Everyone's a selfish brat all the time and you need to realize when you're being a selfish brat.

Just thought I'd go ahead. No before someone starts writing it.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I think that will happen. I think every single day. I think we would all be so much better off if. Every time we were being selfish brats. We realized it and preached the gospel to ourselves like show me one person who doesn't doesn't have a bratty thought during the day like it's just.

So.

We all do it, yeah, yeah, so so you've already mentioned, uh. You know. It's not like you have grand plans to uh, take over the entire podcasting universe, uh. And and wipe out everybody else's audience, even though you did make that itunes comment.

Um.

In passing, um, hey when you win at something I just enjoy it.

Okay, I guess I have to break out tic-tac-tower.

Yes, see how that leaves. Yes. Let's play tic-tac-tower. Oh, yes. No one else in this house can beat me. Oh.

That sounds like a challenge. It is. All right.

Uh.

Well, we gotta we're keep popping out of the camera rich said. Oh, well, I don't know this is out. I haven't done that yet. So that's that's not that's that's at the camp.

You're not even the same state. You're gonna find a way to argue with them. Uh, yes.

Well, yes we will find a way. That's sort of how the dividing line works. So that's uh, that's how it works. Anyway, yeah, so you're not you're not trying to do that. And so it's not like you have a five or ten year plan.

No uh, it's.

Basically.

2020 is going to be fascinating. Yes, uh politically that's gonna raise all sorts of issues. Yeah, and that seemingly is going to result in all sorts of stuff, uh within the church, I mean the amount of Change I have seen.

I mean, uh, you know the program we did on the shepherd's conference q a was huge.

I have people in my church that don't normally listen to the show that tuned in for that. Yeah, and.