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March 8, 2021
VINCE HINDERS, executive pastor at Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, Virginia, who will address:
“MINISTERING to THOSE WHO HAVE ABORTED THEIR BABIES”
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 8th day of March 2021.
I'm so thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest, Vince Henders, executive pastor at Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, Virginia. And today we are going to be addressing a theme that we have never addressed, at least as a full subject of discussion during the entire program, ministering to those who have aborted their babies.
In fact, we're going to be even focusing more on an even more rarely discussed subject, the men involved in these tragic, horrific, and sinful decisions. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Vince Henders.
Thank you, Chris. Thanks for having me.
To introduce you to people who have never heard from you before and to refresh the memories of those who have heard you on the program before, tell us about Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, Virginia.
We're located in Fairfax, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D .C. We're about one mile from George Mason University, the largest...
Amen. Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Redeeming Grace Church of Fairfax, Virginia, go to rgcfairfax .org. R-G-C for Redeeming Grace Church. Fairfax, F-A-I-R-F-A-X dot org. Well, this is quite a difficult subject to handle because there are a couple of things that Christians have to keep in balance when ministering to those who have committed such a heinous sin as aborting their children or a child.
On the one hand, the very fact that you're ministering to them is because they are acknowledging that they have done something tragically wrong. They are harboring guilt. They are filled with depression.
And I'm speaking of the specific people today whom are requesting help in this matter, obviously if people are flippant over this or even celebratory over committing these heinous acts, they're not going to be seeking forgiveness from God.
They're not going to be trying to alleviate their guilt, etc. because they have no felt guilt. But those that are, especially those in the body of Christ, who have committed these sins, we have to treat them with compassion, love, and sensitivity without, on the other hand, undermining the severity of what they have done, even if it is, of course, a past act.
We can't undermine the seriousness of it. We can't sweep it under the rug. And, of course, there are going to be different ways when subjects like these are treated because sometimes you may have an actual member of a church who has already professed Christ, who reveals this to you, something that they have done after perhaps joining the church and becoming a member because they have made a credible profession of faith, been baptized, etc.
So, obviously, that's going to be a different situation than somebody who has done this in their past, before their rebirth, before their baptism, etc. But tell us about your own personal experience with this subject.
Sure.
Amen. Well, thank God that he did do that. Now, going back to something that I mentioned when introducing the subject, there is a unique severity. Even though all sin that is not covered by the blood of Christ will send a lost person to hell.
And they could be, in our minds, very trivial sins. They could be what have been defined as white lies, minor thefts. We could go on and on with the things that we typically will undermine their seriousness, but they're still sins that will send us to hell.
But even having said that, there is something uniquely severe, obviously, about the sin of murder. And while ministering to people who have committed murder, both the man and the woman involved in making the decision to have an abortion, which is the murder of a child, and, of course, the men are not always involved in these decisions.
Sometimes they don't even know about the decision the mother is making. And then, of course, even on top of that, sometimes you have a young girl who is being pressured by her parents to do this because they don't want to experience the embarrassment or even just the inconvenience of raising a grandchild or something to that effect.
But don't we always have to keep in mind when we're reaching out to someone with the love of Christ, with the compassion of Christ, that this, indeed, was a very serious crime in the eyes of God?
Yeah, absolutely. But even people who were not raised in Christianity, because of the way the Spirit wasn't too much about it, people are so typically ashamed of what they've done. They don't typically volunteer.
Part of the burden that I have, even in speaking with you here today, and yet if we think that abortions haven't been perpetrated by a lot of Christians and a lot of people in churches, and yet if we ask ourselves, hey, when did anybody ever talk about or confess that sin?
Wow. Now, how do we know that there are many Christians, and I'm talking about genuine, regenerate people, who have been involved in this sin? Because I would think, I guess I could be wrong, but when any kind of a survey like this might be taken, even if it's a secretive one, I'd be surprised that there would be honesty involved in this.
But tell us, how do we know that there are a considerable number of Christians who have had abortions while they are Christians?
Yeah, I've had the privilege of doing a mental, but there definitely are some.
What are, in your experience, the unique ways that men may grieve over this, as opposed to women? And perhaps they're very similar, I don't know. Perhaps they are very different. Yeah, if you could just give us some insight into that.
I think there are a kind of failure, so I think a lot of times that's...
What would be some of the mistakes that you believe Christians may make, they may even commonly make them, when trying to minister people in this situation, those that have murdered their children through abortion, or a child, and perhaps some things that are not necessarily mistakes, but things that are overlooked when seeking to restore a person to fellowship, or to just comfort anybody who grieves over their sin, as long as we know that they are repentant.
Obviously, all of us are sinners, and many of us have committed horrible atrocities before our regeneration, that we have to put into perspective as being paid for by the blood of Jesus. We are not, as Christians, to remain with a huge load of guilt hanging over our heads and hanging off of our necks for the entirety of our lives.
If we are truly convinced that Christ has paid for these sins, and as I said before, at the same time, we don't want to undermine the seriousness of what we or others have done either. So, tell us about some mistakes perhaps that are often made, and things that are overlooked when trying to reach out to this unique group of people.
Yeah, I think often in experiencing the obstacles that they're facing in their relationship, one mistake is going too fast with people. A more significant mistake, a mistake that I've made, is to not always give the hope of the gospel.
They need to be reminded regularly about the hope that they have in Christ, because that's one of the first things that they're tempted to disregard because they're already feeling guilty. I'd be speaking about people that are Christians with the condemnation aspect of it, but how can God love me still if I've done something that's important and that can be a big mistake?
Things that get overlooked, things that can be developed, and fellowship that can be experienced for a long time. And so I think sometimes we overlook the length of time it's going to need to take to walk with somebody so that they really experience completely a foundation in their soul for what's happened.
Now, obviously, a few things involve cookie-cutter answers, cookie-cutter responses, rehearsed scripts that we use when we minister to people. We obviously want to try to avoid that kind of approach.
But at the same time, do you have specific things, specific wording, that people listening can use perhaps as a template where they obviously, just getting some basic facts underneath them, will customize and use what you're saying to approach unique people with their own unique reaction to the sin that they've committed?
What would be a good approach of things or perhaps specific things to say in specific situations because not all of the actions of abortion have resulted for the same reasons, obviously.
Right.
There are different reasons why people have done this. None of them are justifiable. The only time you could possibly justify a young child getting an abortion is if she's absolutely being forced to by her parents.
But I don't even know the legality involved in that kind of a thing. But tell us about some examples of how, with specific wording, people can be approached with this.
Yes, so I think I frame a lot of my counseling. So that frame, how can I build this relationship so that it can be at work? And so I'll ask sometimes a very straightforward question like, what are they actually struggling with right now?
And get kind of a picture of where does it hurt now? And again, this might have been something that happened a year ago. It might have been a group that we had with men. There was a guy that was in there and he had never confessed it to anyone.
I'll typically ask them specific words from the midst of this journey.
Well, we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
And obviously, a subject like this may lend itself, certainly, to people wanting to remain anonymous when they ask questions or even perhaps share a part of their story because it is so painful. They are guilt-ridden over it and it's so intimately private, obviously.
Others may have it as a part of their ministries and it's already an openly known public part of their lives. But for any reason that it is a personal and private area or it's an area that involves somebody close to you, we would understand that you'd want to remain anonymous.
But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors and more of Pastor Vince Henders and our discussion on ministering to those who have aborted their babies.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme Christ is Supreme Over All.
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We are now back with our guest today, Vince Henders, executive pastor at Redeeming Grace Church in Fairfax, Virginia. We are discussing ministering to those who have aborted their babies, and our email address, if you have questions, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.
As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. We have an anonymous listener, Pastor Vince, who wants to know, in keeping with the understanding that babies who have been aborted are indeed real babies, would you suggest that it is completely acceptable for parents going through the grief process of having their baby aborted to even give it a name and to even pray that they will one day be reunited in glory with this child and other reasons why this may be effective in them going through the grief process in recognition of the fact that this was indeed their child?
That's a great question. Now, just out of.
A theological, a biblical question. I don't know if the Bible is this clear on this question, and I actually don't think it is this clear. But are we certain that we are going to meet those whom we love, and in this case, in regard to an aborted child, somebody that we never met, but love as a child now that it is recognized the wickedness that had been done against the child, are we guaranteed that we will meet those that we desire meeting in glory?
I don't think that the Scriptures are very clear about that, but I know that people very often find comfort in the notion of I know that, for instance, I am very much looking forward, when I am in glory, to seeing my late wife, to seeing my mother, to seeing others that I know are there waiting for me.
I know that they are there experiencing indescribable joy with Christ for eternity. And I have that hope and expectation to see them, but I don't know if that is a guarantee that even if I, and I believe I will be in heaven, even if I am there, I don't know if considering the situation that there will be billions there, an uncountable number of people there, I don't know if I will see these specific people.
But what do you have to say about that? Well, thank you, Anonymous listener, and if you are a first-time questioner, send me another email giving me your full name and mailing address because our first-time questioners always win a free New American Standard Bible, so obviously this information will not be disclosed on the air because you requested to be anonymous, so you don't have to worry about that.
Thank you for the excellent question. How, in your experience, how uniquely is this sin because, going back to what I said earlier, it is murder, and you may have very unique ways of Christians coping with this heinous sin that they have committed, just as if they might even be on death row for murdering somebody, or they may just be in prison for murdering somebody, or they may have gotten out of the penalty for such a crime due to a technicality, whatever the case may be, but people who are Christians who have committed murder, and this indeed is murder, what would be some of the unique ways that they are harboring on to grief and guilt, in ways that they can legitimately have victory over this without perhaps erasing it completely from their minds and hearts, but have victory where they are not enslaved to the nightmare of what has happened.
A lot of times when people get to this situation, one is, if they're not a Christian, but for those who had at least some profession of faith going into it, it's typically we under earth that they really had to get their arms around the God's goodness to those who are in misery and distress.
All of a sudden, this starts to become larger and larger in our conversations, so that...
Amen. We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says, Would you advise that people in order to find ways of having victory of this enslavement to grief that they may be experiencing over a serious sin like this, that they be involved in a ministry to others who have committed the same sin?
I have found this to be helpful in different ways in my life when I know that I am ministering to others who have repented of sins that they have committed, and even lost people who have not yet repented of sins that they have committed that are similar to my own.
I think something that I would recommend because those who have been through the trauma of abortion and the guilt and the shame, and we haven't even talked about those with regards to men, who maybe their baby was aborted and they didn't know it.
That's a whole different type of pain and suffering that goes on.
Why don't you delve into that right now? In fact, let me first quickly add for our listener, B .B., that I was a drunk. I not only was a drunk before coming to Christ in my mid-twenties, but I was a drunk even more tragically after backsliding back into it after 18 years of sobriety as a born-again believer and became a drunk again, perhaps even in a more scandalous and publicly known way, and a far less expected way since I had a profession of being a Christian.
But I am haunted by that on occasion. I always have to remember that the blood of Christ has covered this, that I have repented of it. But I have always made it a point to let people know that I am aware of a wonderful Christian rehabilitation ministry for addicts in Boone, North Carolina, Hebron Colony Ministries.
And I have so far directed at least three people to that wonderful ministry, both that ministry and their sister organization in South Carolina for women, Grace Home. And all of those folks who I have referred to these ministries have successfully completed the program and are currently sober, and I'm praising God for that.
So I know that it has helped me personally enormously. And just to remind our listeners, because I never stop singing the praises of this wonderful ministry, you can go to hebroncolony .org hebroncolony .org and pass that information on to everyone you know, especially if you are aware that they are either themselves struggling and battling with this addiction, this sin, or if they have someone in their family, somebody they know, somebody in their church.
Many pastors have asked me for this information. But it's hebroncolony .org and I hope that that helps those listening once again. But I think that I, instead of interrupting you mid-sentence, I'm going to go to our midway break right now, and when we return, you can go specifically into the tragedy, the shock, the horror that many men may be experiencing because they have found out after the fact that the biological mother of their children or their child has murdered the child.
So we'll have you pick up right on that when we return. If anybody else would like to ask a question or even give a part of their own personal story, whether they do so by identifying themselves or if they do it anonymously, that is fine.
But remember, if it's just a general question, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
Remember, this is a longer break than normal, so please be patient with us and write down as much of the information provided by as many of our advertisers as possible so that you can more frequently patronize them, or at least, at the very least, respond to their ads by saying thank you for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
We'll be right back after these messages with more of Vince Henders and our discussion on ministering to those who have aborted their babies. Don't go away.
Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters and my friend, Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.
We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme, Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including John McArthur, Phil Johnson, Voti Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.
For details, visit g3conference .com.
That's.
G3conference .com. Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021. This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is Supreme Over All.
Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.
Good to be back, Chris.
I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30.
Years. Wow, that's some compliment. How much joy are you for that?
You don't have to owe me anything. We're in good shape.
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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
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To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000. Call 516 -354 -2000. That's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at leesdrugsrx .com at leesdrugsrx .com. That's leesdrugsrx .com. That's leesdrugsrx .com.
Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.
Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi, I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this, I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.
He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness and the beauty in what God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's design.
And once we do,.
There is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him. When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very serious.
Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.
Thank you.
Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.
We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus. Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray or all of the above. For details call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333. That's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org.
That's liyfc .org.
That's liyfc .org. Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income? Maybe you've had to close your doors for good.
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Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a Sunday.
Worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing. We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.
Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402 That's 516 -599 -9402. Or visit Lynnbrookbaptist .org That's Lynnbrookbaptist .org.
When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
I'm Pastor.
Brandon Scalf of Cruciform Bible Church in Indianapolis, Indiana, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chris Hatton of Grace Chapel in Sanford, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Jack Wilke, Minister of the Forney Church of Christ in Forney, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Mike Wachowski of Westminster Chapel in Ballground, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Steve Cooley of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston, Massachusetts, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Brock Evans from Wading River Baptist Church in Wading River, Long Island, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Tom Lasser of Crestview Baptist Church in Big Spring, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Go to NASBible .com. That's NASBible .com to place your order.
Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing 6th grade, do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?
Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award-winning podcast. I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, trained church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.
Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid-Ground-Books .com.
Solid-Ground-Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground. Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
And I want to thank all of you who listen to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio who have been purchasing many books the many of you who have been purchasing many books from Solid-Ground-Books .com I just I can't even explain I can't even describe in the English language how much I go through a season of rejoicing every time I hear from Mike Adosh, the founder of Solid-Ground-Books .com when he starts to rattle off a very long list of people whom he has never heard from before who have ordered books from Solid-Ground-Books .com and specifically mentioned Iron Sharpens Iron Radio as their source for discovering that publishing ministry and also listeners of ours that keep returning over and over and over again.
I just want to thank you so much because you are helping to keep on the air a very important sponsor of the show. Without their continued financial support through their advertising campaigns I doubt that we would be able to maintain this program and remain on the air barring a miracle from God financially.
So, keep it up folks, keep ordering books from Solid-Ground-Books .com keep reminding them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and if you've never ordered from them before, please go to Solid-Ground-Books .com please go to Solid-Ground-Books .com today and order for the first time.
You will not regret it. Remember, you're not going to just be doing yourself a favor. I misphrased that. You're not only going to be doing Solid-Ground-Books .com a favor. You're going to be doing yourself an enormous favor and anyone for whom you purchase gifts from Solid-Ground-Books .com because they publish nothing but the finest the very finest and most biblically sound Christian literature that you can buy both from the past and the present.
At Solid-Ground-Books .com always tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before we return to our guest today Pastor Vince Henders we have just a couple of very important announcements to make.
Folks, if you love this show we have experienced some hard times financially because largely due to the coronavirus pandemic hysteria that has harmed seriously many people in our audience including business owners.
We're asking you folks since our donations have gone down we're asking you to help replenish what we have lost. Those of you who have not been harmed too badly by the coronavirus pandemic hysteria you still have an abundance of money you still have a lot of money collecting interest in the bank.
You have money that you use for all kinds of recreational purposes. Please share some of that with us by going to ironsharpensironradio .com click support then click click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.
You can also advertise with us send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and you can advertise with us as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe.
You don't have to believe identically with me but you need to be promoting something compatible at the very least with what I believe and we would love to help you launch an ad campaign immediately because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars.
For those of you who prefer mailing in donations by check via snail mail to the United States Postal Service when you go to ironsharpensironradio .com and click support a physical mailing address will appear on the screen where you can mail your checks made out to ironsharpensironradio .com.
And once again folks, I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from the regular giving that they're accustomed to to their own local churches where they are a member in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
In other words, don't punish your own church financially by giving to us and blessing us financially. Don't do that and don't put your family in further financial peril if you are really struggling to survive financially.
Those two things are commands of God, providing for your church and providing for your family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but as I said before if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please help us out as much as you can as frequently as you can by going to ironsharpensironradio .com click support, then click to donate now.
Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible-believing church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church. I've already helped many people all over the globe find churches, sometimes within just a couple of minutes' drive from their homes, that they didn't even know existed, or they knew the churches existed, but didn't know that they were theologically sound.
I have extensive lists of churches all over the world and I may be able to help you. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.
That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Vince Henders on our theme today, ministering to those who have aborted their babies. And that email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if you're asking about a personal and private matter.
And Vince, you were just about to, before the break, discuss an area that we have not yet delved into today about the trauma, the shock, the horror that many men experience when they find out that a woman, either be their girlfriend, their wife, their one night stand, however it worked out, where this woman became pregnant from their sexual involvement.
They have found out that this woman has murdered their children in the womb without letting them know in advance. In fact, I have a friend, a personal friend, in fact I interviewed him once on this program, and I won't mention his name because his brother is a very famous worldwide celebrity, but this individual actually found out that his wife had gone to the abortion clinic to have an abortion, and she had not told him that she was doing this beforehand, and I don't even remember how he found out that's where she was going.
And he went to the abortion clinic, where she was, and was arrested because he brought a young child with him, he brought one of their children with him, and he was arrested for endangering the safety of a minor.
Can you imagine the irony of that? His wife is murdering one of their children, and he is arrested for endangering the safety of a minor because he brought this child to an abortion clinic and was arrested.
But anyway, tell us about that whole genre of ministry, where you are helping men deal with the fact that their baby, unbeknownst to them initially, and without their consent, was murdered.
I have...
Yeah, and I'm sure that there's a lot of things that involve ministry to people like that. You obviously may have to minister to them because they are struggling with hatred towards their spouse, or whoever the biological mother of the murdered child is.
They may be even struggling with thoughts of vengeance or all kinds of things. I mean, this is a really horrible situation that I'm sure occurs more often than we care to admit.
And I watch, and they're just so angry. It's the gospel, and that's what we have to find a gracious way to...
We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks if a pastor has a daughter who gets an abortion, when should the pastor step down or be removed from his office because he doesn't have his household in order?
Is it only if the child is under the roof of that pastor, or are there all circumstances when such a crime is committed? Does the pastor need to step down because he is not living up to the qualifications of having his household in order that are required by those entering into the office of elder?
We also have an anonymous listener asking a very similar question. The anonymous listener asks is the sin of abortion always a matter of church discipline if the person commits the sin while a member of a church, especially if they are not repentant?
Now if the person is repentant over it, they realize that because this was committed, this act was committed, this crime was committed. I mean crime obviously in the eyes of God because it is legal unfortunately in the eyes of the secular state.
But for the person who has committed this act while a member of a church, a professing regenerate believer of a believer in Christ who is remorseful and repentant over it, however, would this circumstance allow the person to not be brought forward to the church and for it not to be a public sin?
Would it be biblically acceptable for the elders not to make this sin public if the person is repentant over it?
Yeah, I think if the person is in faith what the benefit is to the church.
And I'm assuming you would agree that there are certain sins that even if the person is repentant, if they are committed by a leader in the church, they may need to be brought to the public, whereas like for instance, I don't know necessarily, if someone who commits adultery and has confessed this during a private counseling session with their elders, that that sin would need to be made public.
But if it was an elder that did this, I think it would be because it all falls as a part of the qualifications issue of being an elder. I mean, perhaps you disagree, I don't know.
No, I think it's a privilege to be able, in the way that we've changed, to be a follower of Christ. Yeah, I used to be able to trust pastors that are like adultery. We have another anonymous.
Listener who has a question. Most Christians that I know will treat their friends and neighbors and loved ones who are not Christians who are pro-abortion and may have even had abortions in a different light than people that are murderers, even though technically these people are murderers.
Why is that, and should we be treating our neighbor who is someone who is perhaps even an activist for the murder of unborn children, should we be treating them just like our neighbor who is of a different religion, or our neighbor who has different sins in their lives that don't reach the level of scandalous and horrific sins like murder?
Obviously, we are not to shun all of our friends, family, and loved ones who are sinners, because then we'd be shunning everybody. But at the same time, there is a unique level of depravity and satanic activity when it comes to murder, and the murder of an unborn child is murder, just as if the child was 5, 6, 7, 8, or 20 years old.
I think there is certainly... trying to balance being able to be a truth teller, persuade them to engage the gospel, stay in the conversation with them, and yet at the same time I know that sometimes...
I'm sorry, you sounded like you were just about to say something.
I think this is why it really is dependent...
I want to be careful the way I word this, because I don't want to give anyone the false impression that I'm trying to soften the seriousness, the severity and wickedness of murdering the unborn. But I'm thinking this through here, out loud.
Is there.
A consideration, when we are dealing with our neighbors, we obviously would never invite over for a barbecue a person that is.
A known.
Murderer of an adult for instance, who is unrepentant, who may be hiding from police, and on and on. Somebody who is a universally accepted murderer, or somebody that is universally viewed as a murderer is a better way of phrasing it.
We would never invite somebody like that over for a home, for a barbecue. But the way, the difference with abortion, even though it is murder, should we consider the fact that the secular authorities and the secular medical realm has done an ingenious job, and of course a satanically ingenious job, of convincing people that this is not murder.
Is that one way that gives us a permission, a liberty to invite? If you want to minister to somebody, if you want to evangelize someone, give the gospel to somebody who is a neighbor, and you happen to know this woman is a feminist, and she goes to pro-abortion rallies, and she may even have run and been elected to office, whatever the case may be.
And she's pro-abortion. Would it be legitimate to have her in your home for dinner, have her over your backyard for a barbecue, reach out to her as a friendly neighbor, knowing that this may be a part of the reality of their sin, is that they have been duped in one degree to another of the acceptability of this.
In fact, I was just.
Remembered somebody who I've interviewed several times, Rosaria Butterfield, before her conversion to Christ, she was well known in her community of upstate New York, as being a feminist, and a active lesbian, and a pro-abortionist, and every other thing that immediately comes to mind when we think of those strongly on the left side of things.
And she came to Christ because a Presbyterian pastor and his wife continually showed compassion and love to her, and invited her over their home for dinner, and she eventually, their love for her crushed her heart, and the Lord used that to bring her to Christ.
And she is a very zealous Christian author, and apologist, and just a wonderful sister in Christ, who openly opposes the sins of homosexuality, and every other sin that is championed by the left.
And I think that's a mistake, too, that we can engage. Amen. And we're going to our final.
Break right now. If you have a question, send it in as quickly as possible, because we're rapidly running out of time. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, as always, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, if you're asking a general question.
But if it is a personal and private matter, feel free to remain anonymous. In fact, we would compel you to remain anonymous if it regards a personal friend, a pastor, or something that none of us have any business exposing publicly in regard to such a personal thing.
But that's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Vince Henders after these messages.
Christ is supreme over all. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching and singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.
For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.
When Iron Shepard's Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Shepard's Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
I'm pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the Church of Friendship in Hockley, Texas and the NASB is my Bible of.
Choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Trump and Zion Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trump and Zion Radio.
Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar.
You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work. Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time day or night.
Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. While you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers.
And finally, if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York. Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio and thanks for listening.
I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one-time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.
We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family. Banu Gadi, owner of three New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.
To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000. That's 516 354 -2000. Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com. That's leesdrugsrx .com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.
This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
Today and always. Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.
The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.
Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non-believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.
Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more.
Visit historicalbiblesociety .org today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing 6th grade. Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?
Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth .Love .Parent and host of its award-winning podcast. I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
That's why Truth .Love .Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.
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The truth. Pastor Vince Henders, please, if you could summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about this very important.
Subject today. For me, with regards to how to serve people to be able to talk about. Well, I want to make sure.
That our listeners have your contact information, and I think we could even fit a couple more listener questions in. But first of all, just so we don't run out of time without mentioning this, the Redeeming Grace Church website is RGCFairfax .org.
RGC, which stands for Redeeming Grace Church, Fairfax, for Fairfax, Virginia, F-A-I-R-F-A-X .org. Do you have any other contact information that you care to share that you want to make sure our listeners have?
Sure. If anybody ever has a question... Great. Well, we do.
Have another anonymous listener who wants to know, there are those that grieve even more deeply and battle depression that enslaves them after committing such a horrible act as murdering an unborn child because they have been improperly taught theologically and believe that you can lose your salvation.
Can you please minister right now by giving some words of counsel to those who are ministering to these people, and we are trying to convey to them the truth that exists in the perseverance and preservation of the saints.
This is where good theology and bad theology really hurts people. Good biblical counsel...
Amen. Let's see here. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, do you know of abortionists... I'm talking about the actual doctors who are murdering these children physically, who have come to Christ and repented of their actions publicly?
I don't personally know any. I'm sure there are some.
Yes, I know of Bernard Nathanson is a very famous Christian, I believe from a Jewish background who was very much involved in murdering children in the womb. And he, and I say this, I hope that our listeners understand why I'm saying this.
He, although I am rejoiced that he is pro-life and very militantly pro-life and very active in his stance for pro-life and his exposing of the evils and horrors of what abortion is. I'm so delighted and rejoiced in that, but he is Roman Catholic from what I understand, so I have to be very quick to acknowledge publicly that I believe that the Roman Catholic Church, even though there are many people who would identify themselves as Roman Catholics, who are truly brothers and sisters in Christ because they believe in the true gospel in spite of the false gospel taught by Roman Catholicism.
At the same time, I have to make it clear that the official dogma of Rome when it comes to the gospel is false, and there is no hope of salvation in the dogmatic teachings of salvation as lined out in the Council of Trent and other places dogmatically in the Church of Rome.
But it is at least encouraging to know that there are physicians like Dr. Nathanson who have abandoned murder, because that's obviously a very serious crime. Well, once again, I want to publicly, I want to remind our listeners about the website for Redeeming Grace Church in Fairfax, Virginia where our guest is the pastor, rgcfairfax .org.
Rgcfairfax .org. Thank you so much for being such an excellent guest again. I want to thank everybody who listened and I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.