March 25, 2020 Show with Judy Rogers on “Contemporary Music Can Still Be Biblical: Reuniting the Brain with Emotion in Modern Songs For the Church”

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March 26, 2020

March 25, 2020 JUDY ROGERS, Christian song writer, singer, musician & recording artist who will address: “CONTEMPORARY MUSIC Can STILL Be BIBLICAL: Reuniting the Brain with Emotion in Modern Songs For the Church”

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown
00:11: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:57: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 25th day of March 2020.
01:29: I am thrilled, after a long absence, to have back on this program,
01:36: Judy Rogers. Judy Rogers happens to be the sister -in -law of the guest that I interviewed yesterday,
01:44: Dr. Jo Morecraft, on With Liberty and Justice for All, Christian Politics Made Simple.
01:50: And I am thrilled to have her on the following day. Judy Rogers is a
01:55: Christian songwriter, a singer, musician, a Christian recording artist, and she is the wife of Pastor Wayne Rogers.
02:04: No, not Trepper John from MASH, but a different Wayne Rogers entirely. Wayne Rogers, pastor of the
02:13: Dickinson First Presbyterian Church in Haysi, Virginia. And today we are going to be addressing the theme,
02:21: Contemporary Music Can Still Be Biblical, Reuniting the Brain with Emotion in Modern Songs for the
02:27: Church. We're also going to be talking about Judy's new CD, and that CD is primarily meant for children, although anyone of any age could be blessed.
02:40: Consider God's Critters, obviously a compilation with Ellie Mae Clampett from the
02:45: Beverly Hillbillies. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back after a long absence to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Judy Rogers.
02:55: Thank you, Chris. I could not be more delighted. It has been a long time, and it's so good to reunite with you via radio.
03:03: Yes, and the last time I saw you, we both, before the program, were scratching our heads trying to figure out what year, in fact, even what decade it was.
03:13: But it was likely in the 1990s, likely somewhere near 1995, when you gave a concert at the church where I was a member, a church where I was a member before moving to Pennsylvania, Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.
03:33: And I very fondly remember that concert, and I also remember the overwhelming reaction of the congregation, how much they loved hearing you sing and play the guitar and so on.
03:47: So that's an excellent memory. Thank you, Chris. And you know what? I remember that concert so well.
03:54: I don't know exactly what it was about it, but I just remember so many things about that time.
04:02: And we've been to New York. I've been up there probably four or five times and performed some concerts.
04:09: And I come back home and tell people here in the South that we truly experienced
04:16: Northern hospitality. Amen. Well, before we go into our conversation on the theme that contemporary music can still be biblical, why don't you tell our listeners something about the church where your husband pastors,
04:33: Dickinson First Presbyterian Church of Hayside, Virginia. This church was where I grew up.
04:43: My grandfather, Elihu Hiram, good English name, Anderson, and good
04:48: Scottish last name, was the pastor all of my youth.
04:54: And I remember him as a great, absolutely dedicated man of God, so careful with the word of God.
05:04: And he had a very fruitful ministry. I was brought up knowing and loving the things of God.
05:14: And his daughter, my mama, Anita Belcher, and my dad, Kleiner C.
05:21: Belcher, were very active members in that church. Mama taught the youth.
05:27: My dad was an elder. And our parents didn't just go when the church doors were open.
05:35: They often opened the doors of the church so dedicated to the community and to getting as much of that community as possible into the church.
05:45: In recent years, the church was without a pastor, and the congregation dwindled greatly, and a lot of people moved away.
05:54: And so we agreed to come here and seek to breathe some life back into it.
06:02: And he's been holding forth regularly each Lord's Day and preaching strongly the word of God and in such a way that I believe is warm, welcoming, and absolutely uncompromising with the truth.
06:20: And we are pressing on. Amen. And if anybody wants to find out more about the
06:26: Dickinson First Presbyterian Church of Haysi, Virginia, go to Facebook and type in Dickinson, and Dickinson is spelled
06:33: D -I -C -K -E -N -S -O -N, unlike the college that's near my home here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
06:42: Dickinson First Presbyterian Church in Haysi is spelled H -A -Y -S -I, Virginia, and you can find out more about that church.
06:50: In fact, I just looked up when the last time you were on this program, and interestingly enough, you and Pastor Wayne were on back -to -back.
07:04: Wayne was on Wednesday, July 30, 2008, and you were on Thursday, July 31, 2008.
07:16: All right. So we've got to get Wayne back on as well, and we can't wait so many years before you return.
07:24: Yeah, don't wait too long, Chris. I'm going to play a song by you that is my favorite song that you have recorded, and perhaps you could even tell our listeners a little bit something about it before I play it.
07:40: Coram Deo. And it's from the If You Love Me CD. Yes.
07:48: Coram Deo is what I attempted to make a happy introduction to the
07:56: Ten Commandments, and it was inspired by R .C. Sproul's Ligonier Ministries, and their magazine they published on the inside page was the
08:08: Coram Deo page, which means Latin for Before the Face of God.
08:14: You mean the Table Talk magazine? That's right. And every time I would read that,
08:20: I was so convicted. I think just because of hearing it in a foreign language, sometimes we pay more attention.
08:28: And every time the end of that front page article would work out to be, how do we apply this
08:41: Coram Deo? How do I live before the face of God? And so I was honored to speak at a conference, and it involved
08:54: Ligonier, and I wrote that song on the way, on the plane, on the way there.
09:02: Wow. Yeah, I know. Isn't that amazing? That's really kind of the way a lot of my songs come about in odd ways, like when
09:12: I'm driving or doing dishes. But I was able to finish that up and record it, and thought it made a great opening for the
09:22: Ten Commandments, that God calls us in the Ten Commandments to live before the face of God.
09:30: Amen. And I hope it will be a blessing. Yes, I'm sure it will be for anyone who has discerning taste and loves to worship our
09:40: Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ. So here's Coram Deo by Judy Rogers from If You Love Me CD.
10:26: Morning sleeping, soul of crystal, by Jesus' righteousness alone.
11:34: And the gift of faith, soul of feeding,
11:42: I am in Christ by faith alone. His grace alone has brought salvation, and not the works that I have done.
12:20: Soul of crystal, by faith alone.
13:30: Amen. Hallelujah. That was beautiful. And so I can remember to keep repeating it,
13:37: Judy, where is the best place for people to purchase your music? Just JudyRogers .com.
13:45: JudyRogers .com, that's easy to remember. Yes, and I also want to tell everybody that I have a coupon code for anybody that would like to order.
13:55: Excellent. You get 15 % off at checkout, and that code is
14:01: JRMusic1952. JRMusic1952.
14:10: Mm -hmm, 1952. Great. And you get 15 % off at checkout. Terrific. Now, the theme of our program today, as I mentioned earlier, is contemporary music can still be biblical, reuniting the brain with emotion in modern songs for the church.
14:29: It seems that the church has been at war amongst themselves, amongst the fellow members of the church, in fighting for decades, perhaps even actually centuries, over music.
14:47: It's a sad commentary. You have those who want to worship
14:54: God by bypassing the brain when they worship many of the contemporary artists and bands.
15:07: Their music is something that could send the listener into diabetic shock because it's just filled with syrupy, sweet, light, fluffy, meaningless lyrics.
15:22: And then you have, and we have to be honest here if we're going to be fair, those of us who are
15:28: Reformed, sometimes we worship even singing those grand, majestic, glorious old hymns.
15:39: We sometimes sing those hymns as if we believe having any emotion is a sin of some kind.
15:46: Exactly. And it could be like entering into a funeral in many of our worship services.
15:52: Not all, I'm not broad -brushing my own people here, but I just happen to know it's true if we're going to be honest.
15:58: Yes. And those are two extremes that should be avoided at all costs. Am I right?
16:04: Yes, I agree. I came up with an expression some years back called warm Reformed, and I think that's what we need to be.
16:15: We need to be, or you can just say warm, biblically warm, because Reformed is just a way of describing being biblical.
16:25: But we need to be warm Reformed. We don't need to be cold. And one of the reasons
16:30: I wrote the songs that I did and have taken on the recording is because I did see so many songs that appealed mainly to emotion, and it's so easy for Christians or, you know, shallow
16:48: Christians to just latch on to that emotional music and get stirred inwardly but then have nothing to offer back to the
16:59: Lord for the things that they've heard or sung. And yes, I have experienced that thing that you mentioned too, sadly, that sometimes those in the mature, so to speak,
17:12: Reformed community can lose that warmth and the emotion that is given us by God.
17:22: And that's why I try to connect. Somebody told me one time,
17:28: Judy, you don't just write songs, you craft them. And that was a huge compliment, but I thought about that, and I thought, you know, that's really true, that at least is my goal.
17:38: And if people could see my first drafts of songs, they would probably be horrified.
17:45: I really work and work on my songs and run them by my in -house theologian, my husband, and also my dear sister and brother -in -law and others before I settle in on a song, because I think it is so important that we don't just stir emotions or that we're not just theologically correct.
18:10: It needs to be a blend, a wedding of those two things, and that's really what
18:15: I have attempted to do in all of my years of songwriting. Going back to our own
18:22: Reformed family, don't you think it would be wise for either a song leader or a pastor, when we are singing one of the cherished old hymns, if it contains antiquated language or words that your average person, even average
18:40: Christian, might not understand, don't you think it would be a good idea for whoever is leading the music to explain and define what those terms are?
18:48: I do. I truly do. I love much of the old English and much of the old way of writing songs, but I have to say that there are some, occasionally, that definitely need some explanation and elaboration.
19:07: But I really think more than that is what we were saying a minute ago, is the way in which we sing them.
19:17: The mode, the emotion, the warmth. You know, the
19:22: Bible says to sing to each other, psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, and so often we just stand in the congregation and stare forward, and we're just so roped with what we do, and God wants it to be living, active, warm worship, and communicating to each other from the hymn, the greatness of our
19:46: God. And I'm going to play another song. This is from the
19:52: Arise Shine album, and the song is Arise Shine.
19:58: If you could tell our listeners a little bit about that song. This is one of my favorite stories.
20:04: All my songs have a story behind them, but this is one of my favorites, because Wayne had preached one morning, every time
20:13: I tell about something I say years ago, because it's literally everything has been years ago, and he preached one
20:19: Sunday morning on Isaiah 61,
20:25: I always get mixed up if it's 60 or 61, on how the people of God are to arise and shine for our light has come.
20:33: We of all people. And I would even say, you know, today, in the midst of this pandemic that's going on,
20:42: Christians need to be showing, and so many are, praise God, the real love of Christ, and the victory that we have through Him, no matter what our circumstances.
20:54: And so I felt so convicted from that sermon, but I stuck my bulletin in my
21:00: Bible on the way home, and when I opened it up, it was in Jeremiah 5, and I just looked down toward the end of Jeremiah 5 and saw a horrible and shocking thing has happened in our land.
21:17: The prophets prophesied their lives, and the priests ruled by their own authority, and my people love it this way, but what will they do in the end?
21:27: And I thought, oh my, this is just like looking at the morning headlines. It was so much a description of our country.
21:36: And so I wrote this psalm, and I said, I called
21:41: Betty and said, what should I do? What should I do? I can't leave it in this down, depressing situation here.
21:49: And she said, well, you go to 2 Chronicles 7, 14. It's my people who are called by my name. And so that is the answer to anything that we're going through.
22:00: Amen. And this is Arise Shine from the CD Arise Shine, Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs.
22:09: I hope that you are as blessed by this song as I have been. A horrible and shocking thing has happened in our land.
22:35: The prophets prophesy their lies, and the priests see things through their own eyes.
22:45: They rule by their own authority. It seems they have forgotten.
22:54: They've turned aside, they've gone away, and my people love it this way, but what about judgment day?
23:08: Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
23:14: Lord is risen upon you. Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
23:23: Lord is risen upon you. My people do not fear my name, rather take my name in vain.
23:44: They're rich and powerful, fat with bite. Where is my beautiful blood -bought bride?
23:54: She's playing harlot with the world, trading my glory for a dime -store pearl.
24:03: She has no conscience for all her sin, but what will she do in the end?
24:12: What will she do in the end? Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
24:23: Lord is risen upon you. Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
24:32: Lord is risen upon you. If my people, who are called by my name, would humble themselves and pray, if they would seek my faith, turn from their wicked ways, then
25:13: I would hear and I would forgive, and I would heal them, and I would heal them.
25:50: Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
26:04: Lord is risen upon you. Arise shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the
26:12: Lord is risen upon you. But I love
26:51: Celtic music, and I was wondering if anybody had ever told you before that your music has a flavor that resembles in some way
27:01: Celtic music. Oh yes, many times. And it makes total sense, because that is
27:08: Mirusk. English, Irish, and Scottish are all blended in.
27:13: Those were the settlers that came over here and settled down here in southwest Virginia. So it's definitely in my blood, and that's why
27:21: I just had, after a few years of having my devotions in the Psalms, I just had to write songs that I wanted to record.
27:32: And I thought, what better thing to do than to put them to a Celtic style of music and the CD never be shaken.
27:38: Amen. Now the next song I'm going to play is Here I Stand.
27:46: It's from the CD Songs of Faith, Family, and Freedom. And if you could tell our listeners the very interesting story about this song, because it involves
27:55: Judge Roy Moore. Yes, when Judge Roy Moore was going through his huge trial of being told that he had to remove the
28:05: Ten Commandments from the building, he absolutely refused as a righteous resistance.
28:20: And I had a friend, Colonel E.
28:26: Ray Moore, Jr., who insisted that I write a song to go with this whole thing.
28:36: And he said, write a song about Judge Roy Moore. And I said, Ray, you know the judge.
28:44: He's a very humble man. He would not want a song about him.
28:50: But he wouldn't leave me alone, and so I really prayed earnestly about it, and one day it hit me.
28:57: I could write a song about the cause and then include the wonderful recording of Judge Moore's voice as he stood out on the steps of the
29:09: Capitol righteously protesting removal of the
29:15: Ten Commandments. So that's what you will hear toward the end of the song. Great, and this song will lead right into our first commercial break.
29:24: So the next time you hear me, it will be when we return from that very first commercial break, which will begin right after Here I Stand by Judy Rogers from the
29:36: CD Here I Stand, Songs of Faith, Family, and Freedom. Country, there burns a fire
30:06: With it is a flame of deep desire
30:16: That nothing can extinguish It is driven by the spirit of Those states whose firm convictions
30:31: Brought grief and persecution Great, but they never would be shaken
30:40: I, I can do no untrue
30:51: This nation was built on those presidents
31:14: All people in this nation Tell us who will rule
31:22: The rule of law In coming generations
31:29: If we deny and compromise The love of God in our land
31:39: And if we live in the fear of men We will fall and make messes again
31:49: So we must stand God shed his grace on thee
32:23: And by that grace we will stand firm
32:29: From sea to shining sea From sea to shining sea
33:07: Here we stand
33:14: We can do no other God and truth
33:21: This nation was built on those tablets of stone And we will stand on that rock
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44:55: We are now back with Judy Rogers, who is our guest today. She is a singer, songwriter,
45:01: Christian recording artist, and the wife of Pastor Wayne Rogers of Dickinson First Presbyterian Church in Haysi, Virginia.
45:11: If you have a question for Judy Rogers on our theme Contemporary Music Can Still Be Biblical, Reuniting the
45:18: Brain with Emotion in Modern Songs for the Church, our email address is and please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the
45:33: USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
45:40: Let's say, in this scenario, you disagree with your own pastor on music in the church, on the kind of music that is sung and performed.
45:52: Well, this would be a reason to remain anonymous. Perhaps you're a pastor, you disagree with your own fellow elders or your congregation or denomination, and you don't want to draw attention to your identity.
46:02: I can readily understand that. But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.
46:09: Judy, why don't you tell us something about your new CD, which is titled
46:16: Consider God's Critters. Oh, wow.
46:22: Well, people ask me often, what is your favorite CD that you've done?
46:28: That's a terrible question because it's like saying who's your favorite child. No, it really is, but usually it's the one
46:40: I've just produced. And I must say that this one is vying for the first place in all the 11 recordings that I've completed for several reasons.
46:56: I was inspired by Ken Ham's wonderful book on creation and especially dinosaurs.
47:08: I have one of the songs on here called Dinos, and it's based largely on one of the books that he did.
47:16: I almost completely, all my information almost entirely came from that book.
47:22: One of the favorites of the kids, I even touch on how the dinos on the kids' shows aren't real, and they can't love you after all.
47:36: You can apply that to whichever dinosaur you've ever seen on television.
47:43: But my point in writing the songs that I write for children, first of all, is to be biblically and theologically correct.
47:53: But second of all, I like to have a little shock value occasionally and make people perk up.
48:02: This is one reason that I don't always use the simplest of words in my songs, but I want the young children, four, five, and six, to be taught.
48:18: I use some really big words in my song on The Ant Down Under, but I want those in there so they can be explained to the children and they can understand exactly what's going on.
48:32: Don't just dumb them down with entertainment, but cause them to rise to another level and to really think.
48:39: So Consider God's Critters is, again, like so many of my songs that I've written,
48:47: I think of them kind of on a very innocent level initially, and then I realize the weightiness of what
48:54: I'm doing. And it's very sobering. And so in these songs,
49:00: I try to write songs that are going to stir their heart, not just their emotions.
49:10: I try to really blend fun and entertainment with the great truth of God's Word.
49:18: And so in my song, Consider God's Critters, just so it doesn't go by the listener, if you play it,
49:26: I have a phrase that says, Consider the intricate organs and systems of human and animal complex existence.
49:33: We came into being by God's wise design, not some random big bang and slime over time.
49:42: So that's a challenge to try to speak out against evolution that briefly and succinctly.
49:51: But this is why I am very, very excited for this CD to get out to as many of our young people as possible, so that this might even inform them what to think when they go off to college and have that professor that tries to make them feel foolish for believing the
50:09: Bible. Amen. I'm going to now play the song Consider God's Critters, the name of the
50:16: CD. And this is the new CD from Judy Rogers, and I hope you're blessed. If your kids are not already listening to the program with you, bring them in the room if they're around.
50:27: Yeah, go grab them. Yep, go grab them. And here's Consider God's Critters. Consider God's Critters And all that they teach us
50:43: Eagles and horses And pigs and sand leeches The deer and the dog
50:49: And the donkey you'll see They all have a lesson To teach you and me
50:57: Consider the leopard The lamb and the lion Foxes and ostrich
51:03: The bear and leviathan Cattle and coney And grasshopper too
51:09: They all have a lesson To teach me and you In the beginning
51:19: God created All of the animals
51:27: The fish and the sea The birds of the air And every creature
51:33: That creaked everywhere And God saw That it was good
51:47: Consider the intricate Organs and systems Of human and animals
51:54: Complex existence We came into being By God's wise design
51:59: Not some random big bang And slime over time God told
52:08: Adam Have dominion
52:13: Over the animals The fish and the sea
52:19: The birds of the air And every creature That creaked everywhere
52:25: And God saw That it was good
52:40: Power In the space of six days And all
52:49: Very good That was phenomenal
53:03: And we are going to our midway break right now The midway break folks As you may know
53:08: If you listen to this program every day Is the longer break in the show That is required of us
53:14: By Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida Because they air this program
53:20: Twice a day In morning drive and 8 to 10 pm Every day
53:27: And they are required By the FCC To localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio To Lake City, Florida So they air their own
53:36: Public service announcements During the midway break While we air our globally heard commercials
53:42: So I ask you to use this time wisely Please write down As much of the information provided by our advertisers
53:48: As possible So that you can more successfully And more frequently patronize them
53:53: Because remember Just as I was saying earlier in the show In regard to solid -ground -books .com
54:00: We depend upon our advertisers To exist And therefore If you want our advertisers to stick around So that we will stick around Please patronize them as much as possible
54:11: Obviously if it's a church That's advertising And they're not anywhere near you Why not even just write them a letter
54:19: Send them an email Maybe even send them a financial gift Because many churches have been hit financially
54:25: Because they have had to close their doors And depend upon live streaming To have worship services
54:30: And since people aren't physically present They're very often not giving Like they ordinarily would
54:35: So maybe even send them a financial gift But always tell them that you heard about them From Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio As we ask you to do with all our advertisers
54:43: And also take this time to write down a question For Judy Rogers Any question involving music
54:49: And our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com ChrisArnzen at gmail .com
54:56: And as always please give us your first name Your city and state and your country of residence If you live outside the
55:01: USA Don't go away we'll be right back With more of Judy Rogers after this commercial break Hope Reformed Baptist Church For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church Go to hopereformedli .net
56:06: That's hopereformedli .net Or call 631 -696 -5711
56:13: That's 631 -696 -5711 That's 631 -696 -5711 Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church Of Coram, Long Island That you heard about them from James White On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Announcing a new website
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57:50: Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island Is teaching God's timeless truths
57:56: In the 21st century Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service It's a place of learning
58:01: Where the scriptures are studied And the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith
58:07: Through community involvement It's like a hospital for wounded souls Where one can find compassionate people and healing
58:12: We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ In fellowship, play, and together
58:18: Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman And I invite you to come and join us here At Lindbrook Baptist Church And see all that a church can be
58:25: Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402 That's 516 -599 -9402
58:32: Or visit Lindbrookbaptist .org That's Lindbrookbaptist .org When Iron Trump and Zion Radio First launched in 2005
58:49: The publishers of the New American Standard Bible Were among my very first sponsors
58:54: It gives me joy knowing That many scholars and pastors In the Iron Trump and Zion Radio audience
59:01: Have been sticking with Or switching to The NASB I'm author
59:06: Gary DeMar President of American Vision And the NASB is my Bible of choice
59:12: I'm Pastor Dan Lubenick Of West Hills Baptist Church In Huntington Station, New York And the
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59:23: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Reverend Buzz Taylor Author of God's Lawson And the
59:30: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Dr. William Webster Pastor of Grace Bible Church In Battleground, Washington Founder of the ministry
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59:45: I'm Pastor Ryan Galan Of Central Islip Community Church In Central Islip, New York And the
59:50: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Pastor Brandon Smith Of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church In Jackson, Georgia And the
59:59: NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church To help keep
01:00:05: Iron Trump and Zion Radio On the air Pastors, are your pew Bibles Tattered and falling apart?
01:00:11: Consider restocking your pews With the NASB And tell the publishers you heard about them
01:00:17: From Chris Arnzen On Iron Trump and Zion Radio Go to nasbible .com
01:00:22: That's nasbible .com To place your order Every day
01:00:36: At thousands of community centers High schools, middle schools Juvenile institutions, coffee shops
01:00:42: And local hangouts Long Island Youth for Christ Staff and volunteers meet with young people
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01:01:17: Volunteer, donate, pray Or all of the above For details call Long Island Youth for Christ At 631 -385 -8333
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01:03:03: Pastor Bill Sousa Grace Church at Franklin Here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation
01:03:10: Is one of a growing number of churches Who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, financially
01:03:18: Grace Church at Franklin Is an independent, autonomous Body of believers Which strives to clearly declare
01:03:25: The whole counsel of God As revealed in scripture Through the person and work of our
01:03:31: Lord Jesus Christ And of course the end Of which we strive Is the glory of God If you live near Franklin, Tennessee And Franklin is just south of Nashville Maybe 10 minutes
01:03:43: Or you are visiting this area Or you have friends and loved ones nearby
01:03:48: We hope you will join us Some Lord's Day In worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me
01:03:57: If you have more questions About Grace Church at Franklin Our website is GraceChurchAtFranklin .org
01:04:04: That's GraceChurchAtFranklin .org This is
01:04:09: Pastor Bill Sousa Wishing you all the richest blessings Of our Sovereign Lord God, Savior and King Jesus Christ Today and always
01:04:26: Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here I want to tell you about a man I have Personally known for many years
01:04:33: His name is Dan Buttafuoco Dan is a personal injury And medical malpractice lawyer
01:04:38: But not the type that typically comes to mind Dan cares about people And is a theologian himself
01:04:44: Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible Ravi Zacharias Wrote the foreword
01:04:51: Dan also has a master's degree in theology Dan handles serious injury
01:04:56: And medical malpractice cases In all 50 states He represents many Christians In serious injury matters
01:05:03: All over the country Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer He wrote the test for the
01:05:09: National Board of Trial Advocacy And currently his firm has over 100 cases That have settled for One million dollars or more
01:05:17: And in approximately 10 different states In Illinois His lawyers have the fourth largest
01:05:24: Settlement in the state's history In New York His case involving a paralyzed police officer
01:05:29: Made the front page of the law journal If you have a serious Personal injury or medical malpractice
01:05:35: Claim in any state I recommend that you call Dan Consultations are free
01:05:41: There is no fee unless you win Dan Buttafuoco's number Is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878
01:05:52: Or email me for Dan's contact information At chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:05:57: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com Since 1987
01:06:28: The family owned and operated book service Has sought to bring you the best available Christian books and bibles
01:06:33: At the best possible prices Unlike other book sites They make no effort to provide every book that is available
01:06:40: Because frankly Much of what is being printed is not worth your time That means you can get to the good stuff faster
01:06:47: It also means That you don't have to worry about being Assaulted by the pornographic
01:06:53: Heretical and otherwise Faith insulting material Promoted by the secular book vendors Their website is cvbbs .com
01:07:01: Browse the pages At ease Shop at your leisure And purchase with confidence As Todd and Patty work in service to you
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01:07:16: That's cvbbs .com Let Todd and Patty know That you heard about them
01:07:21: On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio And don't forget folks You can also order by phone
01:07:28: At 800 -656 -0231 800 -656 -0231 800 -656 -0231
01:07:35: And you should only call that number Between 10am and 4 .30pm Eastern Time Monday through Friday There is no voicemail on that line
01:07:44: And those are the hours That someone is manning That toll free number 800 -656 -0231
01:07:51: And by the way The last time I was in Cvbbs which is on the same street
01:07:57: Where this studio is They had Judy Rogers CDs in stock
01:08:02: I don't know if they were sold out of them yet But you might want to check When you call or visit them
01:08:08: Online at cvbbs .com Before we return to my guest Judy Rogers Who is a
01:08:16: Christian song writer Singer, musician, recording artist And wife of Pastor Wayne Rogers Of the
01:08:24: Dickinson First Presbyterian Church In Haysi, Virginia We just have a couple of Important announcements to make
01:08:32: So please be patient with us First of all, tonight And every
01:08:38: Wednesday There is a show Right on the same internet network
01:08:43: Where Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Is live streamed Every Wednesday night At 10pm
01:08:49: Eastern, 7pm Pacific My good friend Pastor Joe Jakowicz Of Christ Bible Church In Pleasanton, California Hosts the program
01:09:01: Bible Talk And tonight he is going to be addressing The question, why did the
01:09:06: Coronavirus Pandemic happen? That's tonight 10pm Eastern, 7pm
01:09:12: Pacific And by the way, Pastor Joe Jakowicz Can be heard preaching Every single day,
01:09:18: Monday through Friday Immediately following Iron Sharpens Iron Radio If you remain on the live stream
01:09:24: You will hear Pastor Jakowicz preaching And I strongly recommend
01:09:29: That you Stay on the stream so you can hear him Also, tomorrow
01:09:35: We have on the program for the very first time Ron Dart And he is the editor of the new book
01:09:41: Myth and Meaning in Jordan Peterson A Christian Perspective Quite a controversial figure
01:09:47: Jordan Peterson So you might want to tune into that I strongly urge you to And by the way, just between me and you
01:09:54: We are going to be giving away free books To people who email us With questions about Jordan Peterson For Ron Dart Friday, Joe Jakowicz, who
01:10:04: I just mentioned He is returning for our Friday update On the Coronavirus Which we are intending
01:10:10: To air every Friday Until this panic subsides And next
01:10:16: Monday and Tuesday We've got Jeff Thomas The world -renowned Reformed Baptist If anybody loves
01:10:23: Banner of Truth Ministries I'm sure you're familiar with Jeff Thomas And he is actually going to be
01:10:28: At least on one of those days Addressing the importance of singing to God The very
01:10:34: Apropos sequel to what we're doing today And I thought I'd throw in That on April 7th
01:10:41: My guest today, Judy Rogers Brother -in -law Dr. Joe Moorcraft Returns to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio For Part 3
01:10:49: Of our discussion on his excellent book With Liberty and Justice for All Christian Politics Made Simple Also folks
01:10:58: If you are a man in ministry leadership Whether you're a pastor, an elder A deacon, a parachurch leader
01:11:04: As long as you're a man In ministry leadership You are invited to the free
01:11:09: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Spring Pastor's Luncheon That of course is
01:11:15: Unless they are continuing Restrictions and bans On public gatherings
01:11:22: At the end of May God willing they won't be But Friday, May 29th 11am to 2pm is the date
01:11:30: For the next Spring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon It's absolutely free of charge
01:11:35: It's going to be held for the very first time At the Bongiorno Conference Center Right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania And also for the very first time
01:11:43: My dear friend, since 1995 I think a man who is the most powerful
01:11:48: Preacher alive on the planet Earth Dr. Conrad M. Bayway Is going to be speaking
01:11:54: To the pastors and ministry leaders He is Pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church In Lusaka, Zambia, Africa He is also the former
01:12:03: Chancellor And now a lecturer at African Christian University And a highly sought after conference speaker
01:12:10: He is just mind blowing I can assure you, so if you are a man In ministry leadership, please register for free
01:12:16: Not only will you be hearing Dr. M. Bayway speak for free And getting fed a sumptuous meal
01:12:21: By the Bongiorno Conference Center for free You'll also be leaving that event With a heavy sack of brand new books
01:12:29: Personally selected by me That have been donated By Christian publishers Major Christian publishers all over the
01:12:36: United States And the United Kingdom So this is an event After you've been cooped up for a long time
01:12:42: It's well worth your while To try to get there, no matter where you live Get there by train, plane, or automobile
01:12:49: Or parachute, however else you could get To Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's Friday, May 29th, 11am to 2pm
01:12:55: At the Bongiorno Conference Center In Carlisle, Pennsylvania Just send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com
01:13:03: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com Put luncheon in the subject line And I'll register you immediately
01:13:10: And it's absolutely free of charge Also folks As I have been reminding you
01:13:15: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has been hit hard Very hard financially Amidst this
01:13:22: Coronavirus scare Our two largest Financial supporters
01:13:27: Had to put a hold on Supporting this program For two, possibly three
01:13:34: Or more months, they are not certain Because their businesses Have been radically impacted
01:13:40: Negatively By the scare of the Coronavirus So I'm asking you, please
01:13:45: Folks, if you have extra money That will enable you to donate to us Please We are in need of your donations
01:13:53: More than ever before Go to ironsharpensironradio .com Click support
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01:14:18: That you're accustomed to To your local church In order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Never do that Especially during this time
01:14:25: When churches, many churches Are hurting seriously, financially Because they've had to shut their doors
01:14:31: And people are forced to worship Via live streaming And since people aren't physically present
01:14:38: In the churches, many of them Either have delayed giving Or are not giving at all
01:14:43: But I have spoken to pastors Whose collections have gone down To 25 % or less
01:14:50: Of what they usually were So please don't siphon money Away from your giving to your church And never put your family in financial jeopardy
01:14:57: In order to donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Those are two commands of God Providing for your church
01:15:03: Providing for your home and family Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Is obviously not a command of God But, if you are financially blessed
01:15:12: Above and beyond your ability To obey those two commands All that money that you've been using For recreational purposes
01:15:18: That you can't use because everything is closed Well, please Consider using a portion of that money
01:15:25: To give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Again, that is, if you love the show And you don't want it to disappear
01:15:31: So please, go to ironsharpensironradio .com Click support, then click, click to donate now
01:15:37: Or, mail in a check The old fashioned way To the address that appears on the screen When you click support
01:15:43: At ironsharpensironradio .com If you want to advertise with us, send me an email To chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:15:48: And put advertising in the subject line As long as Whatever it is you're promoting
01:15:55: Is compatible with what we believe You don't have to believe identically with me But you need to be promoting something that's at least Compatible with what we believe
01:16:01: We would love to help you launch an ad campaign Because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars
01:16:08: We don't even know how we're paying the rent Next month, folks, so please Be as generous as you can and donate as frequently
01:16:13: As you can ironsharpensironradio .com Then click support Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local
01:16:21: Bible -believing church And you're not even prayerfully looking for one You are living in rebellion against God No matter what you've been told
01:16:29: By others There is no such thing as a lone wolf Or maverick Christian in the scriptures
01:16:35: Who is not a member of a church Under the authority of local elders
01:16:40: So you've got to rectify that situation If that describes you Please, if you need help
01:16:45: Finding a church, send me an email To chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com
01:16:52: And put I need a church in the subject line I have helped many people in our audience All over the planet Find churches, no matter where they live
01:16:59: In the world, that they have visited and joined Or sometimes they have visited these churches While on vacation Or sometimes they have referred these churches
01:17:06: To friends, family and loved ones Who are without a church home
01:17:12: In all parts of the world I can possibly help you With these lists that I have In fact, we know right now
01:17:18: That if you live near Haysi, Virginia Dickinson First Presbyterian Church Pastored by Wayne Rogers Is an excellent recommendation
01:17:26: But I have lists of biblically faithful churches All over the world So send me an email If you need help finding one
01:17:32: To chrisarnson at gmail dot com And put I need a church in the subject line That's also the email address
01:17:37: Where you could send in a question For Judy Rogers And again, our theme is
01:17:44: Contemporary music can still be biblical Reuniting the brain with emotion In modern songs for the church
01:17:50: That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com
01:17:55: And Judy, one of the things That I enjoy about Even your music for Little children, which
01:18:03: Has always been a passion of yours Since I've been aware of your music Many of your CDs are dedicated
01:18:10: To children I like the fact that you do not Dumb down The lyrics
01:18:18: Obviously you make them age appropriate But you're not Feeding nonsense
01:18:24: Into the minds of children With your music I could tell you that years ago
01:18:30: I visited a large church In the town where I used to live And this was during The regular worship service
01:18:40: Let alone a children's So -called worship service This was the regular worship service
01:18:45: The very first song That they performed Or played or sang
01:18:52: Had one lyric to it That was repeated Perhaps twenty or more times
01:18:57: And the lyric was This is how we worship him Clap your hands
01:19:02: This is how we worship him Clap your hands After five times of repeating that My hands dropped to my side and I stopped singing
01:19:11: And I said to myself If I had a child And that child was in a
01:19:16: So -called children's church service I would be upset If my little child
01:19:22: Was being taught to sing that Over and over and over again Let alone in the regular worship service
01:19:28: Where predominantly Adults were present Just because we are Creating something
01:19:36: For a child doesn't mean it has to be Devoid of Biblical meat
01:19:42: Am I right? Absolutely. My husband says You can't say everything in a sermon
01:19:48: Because sometimes somebody will come up and say Why didn't you point this out? And he says
01:19:54: You can't say everything in a sermon And you definitely cannot say Everything in a song
01:19:59: That you want to say. It's quite a challenge But that's why I try To get to the crux
01:20:06: Of the matter and Train it And word it as Clearly As possible
01:20:15: And succinctly Because most songs Only last about 3 or 4 minutes
01:20:21: And it is a challenge But it is something that challenges
01:20:27: Me to see how much Meat I can get in there Now the next song I'm going to play
01:20:33: Is 2x2, obviously a reference to Noah's Ark. Anything else you care to say? Yeah This is actually one of Mine and my husband's favorites
01:20:43: I relied on him Heavily for this As I was writing it Wayne said, you know
01:20:51: Christ, Jesus Christ Was the ultimate ark That we run to him
01:20:57: To be saved And I just, it made chills Go over me and I knew that But I hadn't gotten there yet In my lyric
01:21:06: And so I'm so thankful That he pointed that out to me And so that completes the song
01:21:12: And makes it very clear To our children And us, that Jesus Is the ultimate ark
01:21:21: Amen Well here is the song that I just mentioned 2x2 by Judy Rogers I hope you're blessed
01:21:34: God said to Noah You must build an ark
01:21:43: This world that I made Has grown evil and dark I'm sending a flood
01:21:49: To destroy every life But I will save You and your children
01:21:55: And wife on the ark Bring with you
01:22:03: Two of each animal too What a spectacular Colorful zoo
01:22:10: Can you imagine The sight Noah saw They jumped and they waddled
01:22:17: They slithered and crawled Some flew through the air And some galloped on land
01:22:23: They came to the ark And like Noah Obeyed God's command
01:22:33: By faith
01:22:38: Noah listened By faith he obeyed Blameless had
01:22:43: God Hearing all of his days What about me What about you
01:22:51: Even the animals Obeyed their creator 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2
01:23:10: Where can we run From this flood of our sin Jesus The true ark
01:23:17: Says come into it If we repent And obey him by faith
01:23:24: He will Deliver our souls By his mercy and grace
01:23:33: By faith Noah listened By faith he obeyed Blameless had
01:23:39: God Hearing all of his days What about me What about you
01:23:47: Even the animals Obeyed their creator 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2
01:23:58: By faith Noah listened By faith he obeyed Blameless had
01:24:04: God Hearing all of his days What about me
01:24:09: What about you Even the animals
01:24:15: Obeyed their creator 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2 2x2
01:25:21: So just remember, J .R. Music, 1952, and hopefully we'll remember to repeat that throughout the rest of the show.
01:25:31: We have a couple of listeners, actually we have a number of them waiting to have their questions asked and answered.
01:25:41: Let me take a few of them. One of them was so long, I forwarded the email to you, it's from Johnny from Queens, New York.
01:25:50: Hello, Judy. I already answered it. Well, I'll answer it on the air. Judy, hello
01:25:56: Judy, my five children and I enjoy your music and can pretty much sing the entire
01:26:03: Go to the Ants album by memory. I've been around various circles with different musical convictions from charismatic to exclusive psalmody.
01:26:12: Some sing modern songs like a dirge and others acapella hymns like angelic beings.
01:26:19: Ultimately, shouldn't we be emotionally moved by the truth of the words expressed in worship to God and not necessarily carried along by the musical style?
01:26:35: Aren't the goal, or actually shouldn't be, isn't the goal, man, you've got a lot of grammatical errors, Johnny.
01:26:40: Isn't the goal of worship to bring pleasure to the audience of one, the holy
01:26:46: Godhead, and not the appeal to the musical preferences of modern man? Well, yes and no.
01:26:59: Music was created by God to convey the message.
01:27:05: And so I think it's very important. There's much in the music and the Bible, especially in the psalms, about singing, singing unto the
01:27:14: Lord, but also singing to each other. And so I think it's very, very important that we have psalm melodies that convey
01:27:27: God's message in the very best way. I've heard psalms, some people don't like for people to rewrite tunes to old hymns.
01:27:36: Well, that's true at times, but there are some that have very, very negative, to me they make me feel very negative and depressed.
01:27:50: And so I've been very thankful to see, and have done it myself, melodies changed to reflect the message of the hymn.
01:28:00: Very, very important. So yeah, I think it's important that we sing lyrics that are
01:28:08: God -honoring and that he will be pleased with, but definitely I think the music is extremely important.
01:28:18: Yes, one thing that irks me is when
01:28:24: I have visited churches, this is not the church where I'm a member, I have to make that clear.
01:28:31: Yeah, make that clear. I have visited churches, and there are churches, or should
01:28:39: I say elders and leaders in churches, who think that a musical instrument is so absolutely necessary to be included in a worship service that they will have somebody that has absolutely no talent at all playing that piano or performing or playing music on whatever instrument they have some kind of familiarity with, even if they're playing it horribly.
01:29:08: I don't understand that at all. I mean, we can sing our hymns and psalms and spiritual songs, acapella, it is not required of us to use instrumentation, even if we believe the
01:29:20: Bible permits that, but this is sort of a segue to what
01:29:26: Johnny in Queens is asking. Everybody should have some kind of concern about how the music sounds.
01:29:35: Absolutely. We used to be, well, I used to know of a church that encouraged everybody to join the choir, and one of the men in the choir could not carry a tune and sang the loudest, and it was so distracting.
01:29:53: It was really pitiful, and I think that Christians are a little too quote -unquote nice at times instead of being honest.
01:30:04: Somebody told me something early on as I started out launching out in my music songwriting and recording, and they said,
01:30:12: Judy, I don't even remember who it was, but I remember what they said very clearly, you're not good until somebody else tells you you're good, and boy, that just hit me like a ton of bricks, and I've never forgotten it.
01:30:26: We should always be concerned for the glory of God, which means we should have the most excellent music that we can possibly have, and if it's not excellent, then let's sing acapella.
01:30:42: That's how I truly feel about that, and that little bit of advice has gone a long way to help me scrutinize my melodies and the music in general to make sure that it is, and to submit it to others.
01:30:57: So many people are married to their music. They just, they write a song, and I know because I've been guilty of it, you write a song, you feel like it's great, and you want everybody to love it, and I submit my songs to my husband who is the dread judge of all.
01:31:12: He is very honest. He has a good ear for it, and he'll say, you know, I don't think that's not long enough.
01:31:20: You need to write another verse. I don't think that's singable there, and it has been such a help.
01:31:25: I used to be offended, and now I really appreciate it, and it takes a lot of humility, but we need to have excellent music.
01:31:35: Amen. Amen. And we have an email from a listener who accurately describes something she heard me say a lot on this show.
01:31:49: Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania says, I have heard Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, frequently repeat that he thinks churches have caved in to the entertainment mindset and have forgotten that worship is a congregational activity where the members of the church are not just spectators being entertained, but they are to be joining in worship and singing songs that are appropriate for congregational worship.
01:32:22: I have also heard Chris say that he does not believe that it is wrong to have concerts.
01:32:28: In fact, he already has said that he arranged a concert featuring you at the very church where he was a member.
01:32:35: But at the same time, don't you think that the church at large has been far too influenced with the mindset that worship is entertainment?
01:32:46: Absolutely. It is really to our shame. It is grievous that it has...
01:32:55: Oh my goodness, I have heard of a church in a large city that is completely entertainment with all sorts of lights and dramatic effects and very little, if you could even call it a sermon.
01:33:14: This was told to me by somebody who visited this church and actually witnessed just how empty, empty it was of anything from the
01:33:25: Word of God, and totally entertainment. So yes, it is a sad situation, but people, so many people and ministers, preachers, want large churches.
01:33:36: And so you try to do things that you think are going to bring the crowds in, but we praise
01:33:42: God for the churches that are all about the truth of God's Word and honoring
01:33:48: Him, and serve entertainment. And that goes right along with Johnny from Queens' statement about the audience of one.
01:33:54: We should never forget that that is who we are to be singing to, and most concerned about pleasing is the
01:34:02: Godhead. Yes, most concerned, yes. We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very loyal listener to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and a very faithful financial supporter of this program.
01:34:16: And Grady says, Greetings Brother Chris and Sister Judy. Our Heavenly Father has certainly blessed you with a beautiful voice.
01:34:25: I just added your albums on iTunes to my collection. Whenever I hear...
01:34:30: I'm sorry, what'd you say? Wonderful! Whenever I hear someone say their devotional life is boring,
01:34:39: I always suggest listening to a song or singing one to the Lord. I know that has helped enhance mine.
01:34:46: Of course, I make sure it adheres to the Holy Scriptures. Do you think singing or songs should be a part of our devotions?
01:34:54: Well, that's kind of a no -brainer asking you that question. Yes, I certainly do.
01:35:00: And oh my, I can't remember the name of the book. I wish my husband was here. But anyway, at least one book that we've seen and used called
01:35:10: Singing the Psalms, and we have definitely seen the
01:35:16: Scripture, and we have definitely incorporated that in our own family worship. And it is such a blessing, again pointing to just how important music is and can be to our personal and family and corporate worship to the
01:35:34: Lord. Amen. We're going to go, before our final break, to another song, which has a very bizarre title,
01:35:42: Barney is a Hog. I hope that's not about a deacon at Dickinson First Presbyterian Church who is a glutton at the picnics that you have.
01:35:50: But tell us. No, this is actually the companion a lot of the listeners may remember on Go to the
01:35:56: Ant on Proverbs. Isabel is a pig for girls, little girls that get all dressed up but then cry and whine and pout.
01:36:04: This is the companion that somebody asked me to write many years ago, and I finally succumbed and thought, you know, that's really a good idea.
01:36:14: So Barney is a Hog is for our boys, and might I add, some men.
01:36:20: Okay, well here is Barney is a Hog. And the next time you hear my voice is when we return from our final break, because this song will lead directly into our last commercial break.
01:36:32: So don't go away. We'll be right back with Judy Rogers. He digs for worms and fishes in the pond.
01:37:03: He jumps in the mud and rolls in the hay. And Billy needs a bath most every day.
01:37:12: So listen to me country boys, city boys too, and every boy in between. You were made in the image of God.
01:37:21: Not like a rabbit or a ferret or a frog. So wash your hands, brush your teeth, keep yourself clean.
01:37:30: Now Billy comes home for supper every night. He's worked up a farm boy appetite.
01:37:36: But his mama shakes her head and says with a laugh, you're smelling like Barney, boy take a bath.
01:37:45: So listen to me country boys, city boys too, and every boy in between. You were made in the image of God.
01:37:54: Not like a rabbit or a ferret or a frog. So wash your hands, brush your teeth, keep yourself clean.
01:38:03: So listen to me country boys, city boys too, and every boy in between.
01:38:09: You were made in the image of God. Not like a rabbit or a ferret or a frog.
01:38:14: So wash your hands, brush your teeth, keep yourself clean. So wash your hands, brush your teeth, keep yourself clean.
01:38:42: When Iron Trump and Zion Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:38:48: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:38:56: Iron Trump and Zion Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
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01:39:13: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the
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01:39:24: I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my
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01:40:41: This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:40:48: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support
01:40:53: Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:41:09: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:41:16: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:41:29: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:41:39: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:41:47: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:41:53: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:42:06: Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.
01:42:13: His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.
01:42:21: Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the
01:42:27: Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.
01:42:35: Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many
01:42:41: Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.
01:42:47: He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. And currently, his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.
01:43:01: In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the
01:43:11: Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,
01:43:17: I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.
01:43:24: Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878
01:43:31: Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
01:43:38: That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com. I'm Dr.
01:43:53: Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
01:44:04: Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.
01:44:11: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:44:28: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.
01:44:35: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
01:44:44: For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net
01:44:50: That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:45:00: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:45:15: Welcome back. This is Chris Arntzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest has been for the entirety of today's show,
01:45:21: Judy Rogers, Christian songwriter, singer, musician, Christian recording artist and wife of Pastor Wayne Rogers of Dickinson First Presbyterian Church in Haysi, Virginia.
01:45:35: If you have a question, I would send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArntzen at gmail .com
01:45:41: ChrisArntzen at gmail .com Before I play one of your songs, which
01:45:48: I was recommended to play Dinos, but I never met a dinosaur.
01:45:55: Is that what you're referring to? Yes, sir. Okay. We have John and Banger Maine who says,
01:46:03: Although I believe Christians have liberty to explore, enjoy, and implement a variety and a wide spectrum of musical instrumentation and melodies,
01:46:17: I at the same time disagree totally with what
01:46:22: I would call is the melody and beat neutrality myth.
01:46:29: I believe that there are certain beats and melodies that are entirely disruptive and not productive for orderly worship that is even understandable to the congregation and some of it resembles far too much
01:46:45: Satan's music. I'm not referring to your music, of course, but I am referring to some of the more outlandish examples of music that we can hear not only in discography on the radio, but even in worship services like Christian death metal, etc.
01:47:05: Can you respond to your own opinion on what I would call the myth of melody and beat neutrality?
01:47:15: I think it's an area we have to be careful with, but I definitely agree on those melodies or beats that are so wild and crazy and seem almost hellish that I don't see a place for that.
01:47:35: Even in areas where people say, Well, I know, but I've got a message in there and there's a certain group of people we can reach.
01:47:43: I think that's going too far. Rap is not my favorite genre of music by any means, but recently
01:47:53: I have heard a group called Beautiful Eulogy found out that these are actually three pastors, young pastors who have written sermons in these songs, and even some of their music
01:48:17: I'm not really crazy about, but the messages are incredible. I've never heard messages, doctrines, theology, so wonderfully set forth.
01:48:31: So I think we do have to be careful, and we can be very critical and make our own rules about this and have disagreements with people.
01:48:46: You'll run the gamut if you ever get into this conversation, trust me, because I've had people say,
01:48:52: Oh, I love the way you have the drums in that, and other people say, I can't believe you put those devil drums in there.
01:48:59: Oh yeah, this was early on in my music, and it was very slow, soft music on my recording, walking wise for young people.
01:49:12: Anyway, but I agree that some of it just goes way too far and is not
01:49:17: God -honoring. I know that I've repeated this, and many of our listeners may be rolling their eyes because I've repeated it so often, but there's an excellent book that I really enjoy by Dr.
01:49:29: T. David Gordon called Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns. Yes, Wayne has that book.
01:49:36: And one of the things that Dr. Gordon points out in seeking to dispel the melody and beat neutrality myth is that he says that, and of course
01:49:52: I'm paraphrasing, I don't have the book right in front of me, but he says that melodies and beats create moods, and very often, if not most often, the composers of music have even revealed that their intention is to create a certain mood.
01:50:13: I mean, how many times have we heard rock artists say very blatantly that rock and roll is about sex and drugs and they don't make any bones about it?
01:50:26: And of course, I'm not saying that because of that we must refrain from using electric guitars and everything else, but I think that if we're going to be honest, there are moods that are created with certain melodies and rhythms and beats that definitely convey either a sexual connotation or a rebellious connotation or an anger.
01:50:51: And those kinds of moods are not appropriate for the worship of God.
01:50:57: No, and let me say that I have been very disappointed in the past few years to actually hear some of that maybe totally unintentionally coming up in some of the
01:51:10: Christian music that I hear, and even the lyric may be pretty sound, but I hear sounds coming from some of the women singers in particular that just sound sexy.
01:51:24: Oh, yeah. Yeah, and so I do think we have to be very, very careful when handling the word of God.
01:51:30: And that's how we have to look at it, as the word of God in song. And if we look at it like that, instead of looking at the music first, then hopefully that will inform the kind of music and the way we sing it.
01:51:45: Yeah, on WMC, I was giving you the wrong radio station. When Iron Sharpens Iron, I should say, aired on two stations on Long Island, New York that were predominantly music,
01:52:00: Christian music stations, I'd be sitting in the studio waiting to go on the air, and I'd be hearing this breathy, sensual music sung predominantly by women, and I was straining to hear the lyrics because I'm saying to myself, is this a
01:52:17: Christian song? What is this? This sounds like a sexual song of some kind, so exactly what you were just mentioning.
01:52:25: It's obviously that many of these artists are hoping for a crossover hit that secular radio stations will start to play because it is indistinguishable from somebody singing to their boyfriend, from singing to God.
01:52:47: But anyway, we're going to play I Never Met a Dinosaur, and if you could give us a brief explanation before I play it.
01:52:57: This one in particular was, I had one of the Ken Ham's books on dinosaurs for our grandchildren, and when
01:53:06: I was writing the Critter songs, I thought, oh, well, I need to look here. It looks like this might really give me some good info, and so I essentially,
01:53:17: I was so excited as I turned page after page and said, I can write a song right here.
01:53:24: And so this is one of the favorites of the kids and of our grandkids who sing on the
01:53:31: CD, by the way, and some of our dear church members' children at that time.
01:53:39: And I really had fun with this song, as well as trying to really speak the truth.
01:53:45: I had fun with it because I have no problem with kids watching Barney, unless somebody wants to tell me some reason, the lovable dinosaur that says,
01:53:56: I love you, you love me, but I don't want little children growing up believing in these cartoon characters that really have nothing to do with love for them.
01:54:08: And so one verse of my song you will hear says, I never met a dinosaur I didn't like, and expect
01:54:14: I'll never meet one, great or small, but the dinos on the kids' shows aren't real, and they can't love you after all.
01:54:22: But God so loved the world that he gave his only son. Great.
01:54:28: Well, here it is, I Never Met a Dinosaur from the Consider the
01:54:33: Critters CD, the new CD by Judy Rogers. Did you know?
01:55:32: On the sixth day of creation, God created man.
01:55:38: And also all the animal peers, you guessed it, died into God's plan.
01:56:10: I never met a dinosaur I didn't like, and don't expect I'll ever see one, big or small.
01:56:16: And the dinos on the kids' shows aren't real, and they can't love you after all.
01:56:25: But God so loved the world that he gave his only son.
01:56:49: Stinks like you and Sayonara Dinosaur.
01:57:42: I love it, Sayonara Dinosaur. I have a lot of fun with these songs.
01:57:50: Yeah, well, that was excellent. I love that. And I'd like you to have 30 seconds just to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today,
01:57:59: Judy. Oh, well, music is powerful.
01:58:06: It is powerful. That's very clear even by watching our teenagers, and if we are privy to what they listen to, which we should be, by the way, it's powerful.
01:58:21: And so I am encouraging folks to be careful.
01:58:28: It takes time. Parenting takes time and creativity and thought and prayer, as everybody knows.
01:58:35: And so that does not exclude the area of music. And so our goal when our children were young, and really why
01:58:42: I started writing songs at all, was because my husband and I had small children and we saw very little, very little, that was available for our children.
01:58:53: And so my husband said, why don't you write songs? And that's what I did by God's grace.
01:59:00: So get great, excellent, sound, theologically sound music in front of your children, but also help to work it by God's grace into their heart.
01:59:11: Amen. And you can get that music at JudyRogers .com, JudyRogers .com. Don't forget to enter the coupon code when purchasing music from JudyRogers .com,
01:59:23: JRMusic1952, JRMusic1952. Also, don't forget about Dickinson First Presbyterian Church of Haysi, Virginia, pastored by Judy's husband,
01:59:32: Wayne Rogers. You can look them up on Facebook. Judy, it's been a pleasure. I look forward to your return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:59:39: And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater
01:59:44: Savior than you are a sinner. Thank you, Chris, so much. It's been a delight.