June 30, 2021 Show with Josh Buice on “The Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting: What Happened?”

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July 1, 2021

June 30, 2021 JOSH BUICE, Pastor of Pray’s Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, GA, & Founder & President of G3 Ministries, who will address: “The SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION ANNUAL MEETING: WHAT HAPPENED?” & announcing the G3 Conference 2021!!

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,
01:00: Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth. We're listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 30th day of June, 2021.
01:29: And I'm always excited to have my friend Josh Bice on the program. He is pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia, and founder and president of G3 Ministries.
01:43: Today we are going to be addressing the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting, What Happened? And we're going to be continuing to announce and promote the
01:53: G3 Conference 2021 in Atlanta. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Josh Bice.
02:02: Glad to be with you, Chris. Well, if you could let our listeners know about Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.
02:11: Sure. It's a 179 -year -old Baptist church just west of the city of Atlanta, Georgia.
02:18: My privilege is to serve as pastor here. My wife and I grew up here as children, met here in the context of the church, and after being away for about seven years pastoring out of state and attending seminary for preparation for gospel ministry, it was my privilege and honor to be called back home to serve as the pastor of our home church.
02:46: So I've been here about 11 years now, and it was within the context of this ministry that G3 was founded and started on the campus of our local church.
02:58: And is this congregation affiliated with any denomination or fellowship or association?
03:10: Yes, Chris, we are actually affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. We predate the
03:16: Southern Baptist Convention as a church, officially, but we have been a part of the
03:21: SBC for a very long time, and part of what we will talk about today will obviously deal with some of the massive concerns that we as elders have about the future of the
03:33: SBC and, of course, some of the things that are happening within that convention of churches.
03:39: And you are theologically reformed when it comes to soteriology? Absolutely, and as well as ecclesiology.
03:48: Great. Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia, you can go to PraiseMill .com,
03:57: P -R -A -Y -S -M -I -L -L .com. Now tell us about G3 Ministries.
04:05: Yeah, Chris, so G3 Ministries is a ministry that I founded back in 2013.
04:12: It actually just started off as a conference, and it was intended to be just a smaller local theology conference, and we called it
04:22: G3 Conference, Gospel, Grace, and Glory. We wanted it to stand out as distinct and as something that people could know when we explain what it is, that it's a theology conference, not really, you know, a church growth conference or some other conference that's more pragmatic in nature, but more theological in nature.
04:42: And so to our great surprise from the very beginning, the
04:49: Lord had, it seemed, other plans with the conference. He just grew it from year number one.
04:56: I mean, we could not fit everyone into our church building that first year, and then that repeated for about four years before we finally moved to the convention center for the
05:08: Reformation 500 conference. And from that point on, we have never returned back to the local church campus simply because of the vast numbers of people who want to come to the
05:20: G3 Conference. So through the years, we have not only seen dramatic growth in the conference, but we have also transitioned to a content -producing ministry that also hosts conferences.
05:34: And so we have a biennial national conference that will happen this fall, 2021, and again in 2023.
05:46: But in 2022, in the off year, we will not have the national conference, but we will be having some regional conferences, smaller in nature, intended to reach out into darker locations within the nation, and we'll, of course, be giving more information about that in the days to come.
06:04: But at this point, we are full steam ahead in content production mode, writing material to be used in the local church.
06:12: And so the Lord has been very gracious to us and kind to us throughout the last couple of years.
06:19: Well, I am excited to be attending my fourth G3 Conference, September 30th through October 2nd.
06:28: I will be manning an exhibitors booth there again, as you know. And the theme is
06:33: Christ is Supreme Over All, and the lineup, as always, is absolutely extraordinary.
06:41: We've got Stephen Lawson, Conrad Mbewe, who happens to be my favorite preacher on the planet Earth, Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Anthony Mathenia, Hensworth Jonas, Mike Riccardi, Justin Peters, Joel Beakey, Phil Johnson, Nathan Bucinitz, James White, Bob Calflin, Devin Calflin, David Miller.
07:03: The Photo Sisters will be joining Bob Calflin with providing the music, Darrell Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.
07:12: That is a mind -blowing lineup. And, of course, you will be preaching.
07:18: You are just as powerful as any of these men as far as your preaching gifts are concerned.
07:26: If you want to say something more about the theme and what kind of subtitles might be underneath that umbrella theme of Christ is
07:37: Supreme Above All. Yeah, so Chris, we have, you know, a focus on Christ and biblical
07:45: Christology, but also that theme being somewhat vast.
07:51: So we're going to be covering everything from the deity of Christ to the suffering of Christ on the cross to the
07:57: Atonement to the Resurrection. I just talked to Dr. Stephen Lawson the day before yesterday, and so his two sermons, one will be focused on the darkness of Golgotha, and then his final sermon of the conference, which will be the last sermon on Saturday, will be on the light of the
08:19: Resurrection of Christ. So just a wonderful opportunity for us to come together to, after a very dark season in the last year, year and a half, be able to come together and to worship under the banner of the gospel, to sing the gospel, to preach the gospel, to have
08:39: Christian fellowship. It's going to be a wonderful opportunity. I must say, it should be mentioned that we're going to have a wonderful pre -conference as well that's going to be focused on pastoral ministry.
08:52: We have a Spanish version as well as an English version. And so if you're interested in coming to the
09:00: G3 conference, you'll want to try to attend that, especially if you're serving in pastoral ministry, and just sit under the teaching of these brothers who will be able to help us think about the importance of being a shepherd in the life of a local church.
09:20: And so Dr. John MacArthur and others from the Master Seminary will be teaching on that day, that full day, which is
09:29: Wednesday preceding the G3. So wonderful opportunities. And we'll also be having, and he's not on there yet, but James Coates is going to be speaking in the
09:40: G3 conference on the subject of the suffering, and the suffering of the
09:47: Christian as he or she is called to follow in the very footsteps of Jesus. So taking up your cross and following Christ.
09:55: So anyway, I can't say enough about this conference will be the very best
10:01: G3 that we have had in the history of the conference itself. And at this point we are looking to exceed 6 ,000, which will be another record number for G3.
10:15: Praise God. Well, now I'm even more excited hearing that description, because I have always personally been blessed beyond description every time
10:27: I'm there, not only from hearing and seeing the gifted speakers proclaim the
10:33: Word of God and fellowshipping with a number of them and a number of the visitors or attendees, but also just the way that my radio program has benefited so greatly from being present there.
10:49: And by the way, if any of our listeners were unfamiliar with James Coates, he is the pastor in Canada that has been persecuted by the
10:59: Canadian government for remaining open, for having his church remain open during this coronavirus pandemic hysteria.
11:09: And I not long ago interviewed Pastor Coates' attorney.
11:15: In fact, I interviewed him the day that Pastor Coates was being released from jail. But hopefully he'll get
11:23: Pastor Coates on himself at some point. But if anybody wants more information, and hopefully we'll remember to repeat this later.
11:29: In fact, we definitely will, because our ads will be giving this information, but I'll give it to you anyway.
11:35: It's g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and also g3min .org.
11:44: g3min .org. Those are the two websites to find out more details. And let me give our listeners our email address if you would like to join us on the air with a question for Pastor Bice about the
11:59: Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting and what happened, and even other general questions that you might have regarding the
12:06: Southern Baptist Convention, regarding theology, doctrine, the scriptures, etc.
12:12: Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.
12:19: Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
12:24: USA. So, tell us exactly what this recent
12:30: Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting was intended to accomplish, some of the prominent people that were in attendance, and of course, what happened there.
12:45: Yeah, well, the Southern Baptist Convention serves a body of churches.
12:54: So, 47 ,000 churches make up the Southern Baptist Convention. And it's an annual meeting, and it varies from year to year.
13:04: It goes from city to city, so it's not always in one specific location. Back in 2019, it was in Birmingham, Alabama, and then last year for COVID, it was canceled.
13:17: And then this year, it was in Nashville. And so, from year to year, the location will change, but the annual meeting is typically the second week of June every year, and the purpose of the convention is to come together for two days to accomplish basically a very large business meeting.
13:37: And so, I know that that sounds like almost like watching paint dry, you know, as far as, you know, how much fun it would be.
13:47: But, you know, lots of people go. Typically, 6 ,000 to 8 ,000 people, depending on what city the convention is being held in, will attend the annual
13:59: Southern Baptist Convention. And the purpose of that meeting is to accomplish business on behalf of the
14:07: Southern Baptist Convention churches, the churches that give money each year to basically,
14:14: I mean, there are various different ways to give money to the SBC, but there are really, in many ways, the three largest ways would be what's called the
14:22: Cooperative Program, and then you have, beyond the
14:28: Cooperative Program, you have the Missions Offering, the IMB Mission Offering, which serves the
14:35: International Mission Board, which is for foreign missions. And then you have the
14:42: North American Mission Board, which serves church planting in North America.
14:48: And so, those are typically the three ways that you can contribute to the
14:53: SBC. And all of the money that's given by these churches funds all of the work of the
15:02: SBC. So, that involves a couple of main things, theological education and missions and church planting.
15:11: So, if you're giving money to the SBC, then you're going to fund the entities, like the
15:17: Bible colleges or the seminaries, in particular, of the SBC, as well as the mission agencies that actually take the money and then use that to plant churches and pay the salaries of missionaries.
15:31: So, what takes place during these two days in June each year is that you hear reports from these various different entities, and the heads of these entities, like the presidents of seminaries, come and give full -on reports.
15:48: You also have an executive committee that leads the Southern Baptist Convention, and they give a report based on initiatives and goals and plans, which typically centers on money and baptisms.
16:04: And that's typically the way that they chart the success of the SBC, is how many dollars are being given for missions and theological education, and how many baptisms are we seeing in the life of those local churches, and how many local churches have been planted, so on and so forth.
16:24: That's typically how they will assess the health and the strength of the convention. And so, during these two days, you hear lots of reports, and then you enter into some voting sessions, where you actually vote on some different leadership positions.
16:42: You have the president, you have the vice president, you have the recording secretary, and you have second vice president.
16:50: I think there's a third vice president, as well. So you have these different officers that represent the
16:56: SBC, and represent the churches that make up the
17:01: SBC throughout that next calendar year. And so, that's basically how the convention operates.
17:09: And then during those two days, you will also have some resolutions that have been submitted for consideration, and there's a resolutions committee that organizes all of those and brings a certain number of those to the floor of the convention for presentation and to be voted upon.
17:28: And during that time, during that voting session, when those resolutions are presented, there's opportunities for people to go to a microphone to be called upon by the president of the
17:41: Southern Baptist Convention, who moderates the business session, with thousands of people seated there, and they offer up amendments to the resolutions.
17:53: And then, you know, the resolutions committee has to determine if they consider that to be a friendly amendment or a non -friendly amendment.
18:03: And so, it really just serves as a very large business meeting, and then there's some worship that's mixed in there along the way, a few sermons over the course of a couple of days and some singing sessions where the convention sings together and worships
18:20: God. And so, that's basically how the convention functions. And then at the close of Wednesday evening, then the convention adjourns until the very next year, and that's basically how the
18:31: SBC functions. So, technically, here's a fun fact for those that are outside of the
18:37: SBC. It's considered to be the largest Protestant denomination in the world, but technically on paper, the
18:45: SBC only exists for two days every calendar year during the actual meeting of the
18:52: SBC. Well, I know that this last meeting was a very controversial meeting and has upset many people in the
19:05: Southern Baptist Convention, and that's putting it mildly. If you could address some of the major themes that you want to discuss today and what the outcomes were.
19:16: Yes. So, I think some of the big issues that were causing controversy going into this convention was, number one, there was a presidential election this year that was very much a heated issue, and it brought attention to a lot of SBC churches, and so for that reason there was a massive groundswell of people who actually attended the
19:45: SBC annual meeting. So, if there's a typical 6 ,000 to 8 ,000 messengers that are sent from the 47 ,000 churches that make up the
19:56: SBC to the annual meeting, this year there were 16 ,000 pre -registered messengers, and some 15 ,000 and change actually were in the room for the voting session for the president.
20:11: Wow. And so, a massive uptick in attendance, and in fact it was the most since 1995.
20:21: And the reason is because of the controversy dating back to 2019 in Birmingham, Alabama when the
20:29: SBC adopted Resolution 9 that was on critical race theory and intersectionality.
20:36: And the issue was that basically there's a lot of controversy in how that business session was ran, and how the resolution itself was presented, and the amount of time that was given for debate from the floor.
20:53: And so at the end of the day, the SBC adopted Resolution 9 on critical race theory and intersectionality stating that we at the
21:03: Convention of Churches will use critical race theory and intersectionality as analytical tools for gospel ministry.
21:12: Well, that caused a massive bombshell of controversy, and then that rolled right into the
21:21: COVID season in 2020, and then we weren't able to come back to the convention in the summer of 2020 for a debate on that issue.
21:32: So there has been a long -awaited return to the SBC for a lot of these churches to come together once again and to have a conversation on these issues.
21:43: And part of that was a desire to draw a line in the sand and say, here's where we stand on these issues.
21:50: And one of the ways that the messengers were intending to do that was to vote on a president that would actually represent the
21:57: SBC to oppose these matters and to stand against social justice.
22:03: And so coming into this convention were four candidates for SBC president.
22:11: The first and most recognizable name would be Albert Moeller, who serves as the president of Southern Seminary in Louisville.
22:19: And then you had Mike Stone, who's a pastor in South Georgia. And then you had
22:25: Ed Litton, who is actually a pastor in Alabama. And then Randy Adams, who serves in SBC leadership in, like, the
22:34: Northwest region. And so those were the four candidates. So coming into this convention was really a desire to say, we're going to show you where we stand by who we vote for as president.
22:51: And then, of course, there was going to be a debate on matters related to critical race theory and intersectionality.
22:56: So that was really what caused the massive controversy.
23:02: And so then coming out of the convention, there's growing controversy related to who was elected as president and then what we did or did not actually say as it pertains to CRT and intersectionality.
23:17: And we're going to have you pick up right where you left off with that cliffhanger there when we come back from our first station break.
23:24: If anybody wants to join us on the air, again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
23:31: chrisarnson, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
23:41: USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
23:47: Don't go away. We'll be right back with Josh Bice of G3 Ministries right after these messages from our sponsors.
24:01: I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the
24:11: G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,
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34:01: Thank you. Welcome back. This is Chris Hornson.
34:06: If you just tuned us in, our guest today on Iron Shop and Zion Radio is Josh Bice. And he is the pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, and the founder and president of G3 Ministries.
34:23: And today we are addressing a very timely and controversial theme, the
34:29: Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting, What Happened? And we're also continuing to promote the
34:34: G3 Conference this fall. Well, Pastor Josh, tell us who was elected and what is the opinion of like -minded brethren in the
34:46: Southern Baptist Convention over this update? Sure. So, going into the convention, there were four candidates who were going to be nominated for the presidency,
34:59: Albert Mohler, Ed Litton, Mike Stone, and Randy Adams. When we got to the voting session on Tuesday, ballot one, the results were brought back to the convention, and most people were fairly shocked, because going into this voting session, we anticipated that Albert Mohler would probably get the majority of the votes on ballot one, but probably no candidate would carry more than 50 % of the votes, which would result in a runoff.
35:35: But interestingly enough, the conservative candidate, or the most conservative candidate on the list,
35:42: Mike Stone, was the one who actually led the way on ballot one.
35:48: Followed behind him was Ed Litton, and Albert Mohler, shockingly, was in third place.
35:55: And then behind him was Randy Adams. Now, what that means is that Mohler missed the runoff.
36:02: So now you have, on ballot two, Mike Stone and Ed Litton. Now, what happened at this point was critically important, because right then, if you looked at Twitter and social media, with 15 ,000 -some -odd people in the room, you had two main hashtags that were being used during the convention.
36:25: One was hashtag SBC21, and the other was hashtag
36:30: SBC2021. And if you just followed those hashtags, you started to notice the elites within the
36:39: SBC network, presidents of seminaries, namely Danny Akin, the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
36:49: They were making statements like, elect Ed Litton, who will serve us best.
36:55: And so they were engaging in, I mean frantically so, engaging in politics to vote against Mike Stone.
37:04: Now, the controversy is this. Ed Litton actually co -preaches with his wife.
37:12: So he is something far south of complementarian in his theological positions.
37:18: Now, I didn't even know that the Southern Baptist Convention permitted that egalitarian leadership.
37:26: Well, so the way that they get around it is that there's a debate that's been brewing within the last several years within the
37:33: SBC on the office and the function of pastor.
37:40: So right now, presently, he flies under the radar with that, simply because of the fact that his wife does not hold the office of pastor in his church.
37:50: So she's engaging in the functionality of what a pastor does, namely preaching, but she's not actually ordained to the office of pastor in his church.
38:02: So he's flying under the radar and allowed to continue to function that way.
38:07: So interestingly enough, you have Mike Stone, who is the conservative of this entire election, and you have
38:16: Ed Litton, who is probably the most progressive or probably leans more to the left than any of the other candidates on that list, at least openly so.
38:29: And it was striking to see men like Danny Akin, who are happy to take about $8 million from the
38:38: Southern Baptist churches every year to help fund his seminary, to train pastors within the context of his seminary, who are then saying, elect
38:49: Ed Litton, he's going to serve us best. So in other words, here's a man who says, I want to take your money to train your young pastoral candidates in my institution, and I want them to look to that guy as the example for the
39:07: Southern Baptist Convention. That's astounding to me. And yet it worked, because what happened is during that runoff,
39:16: Ed Litton actually beat Mike Stone, receiving 52 % of the votes, which basically there was about 600 votes separating the two candidates.
39:26: Wow. And so it was an amazing scene to watch and extremely controversial.
39:34: And so, yeah, that's basically the way that we left the convention on Wednesday with that as the big bombshell issue of the convention.
39:45: Wow. Now, I have heard about Danny Akin for a number of years, and initially everything that I was hearing from people
39:56: I respect was good and positive. But what has deteriorated or devolved in that area with Danny?
40:05: Well, Dr. Akin has postured himself to be an expositor, a conservative through the years, but over the last several years you have watched his institution become probably one of the leading
40:20: SBC seminaries that has embraced a social justice position on some very big issues.
40:30: And so you have individuals like Walter Strickland and others who have taught there, who have promoted the teachings of James Cone.
40:39: You have, you know, other individuals who have caused great controversy within the
40:47: Southern Baptist Convention who have served under his leadership. Karen Swallow Prior has caused massive controversy as it pertains to social justice, and she has been hired by Danny Akin.
40:59: And so needless to say, he has supported Beth Moore, he has supported lots of things that we would completely disagree upon, and yet he continues to engage in the politics of the
41:14: SBC. And it was very, very evident at this convention as to where he stands on the big issues.
41:22: We have an anonymous listener who says, I'm remaining anonymous because I am absolutely disgusted by the silence of the
41:32: Southern Baptist pastors and leaders that I personally know over the whole issues of wokeism and critical race theory and other things that are ripping apart the
41:45: Southern Baptist Convention and also causing enormous wedges in the body of Christ at large.
41:54: I was wondering, just as I have my suspicions, that our own presidential election in the
42:00: United States was an illegitimate one, are there anyone posing the idea that this was somehow an illegitimate election in the
42:11: Southern Baptist Convention? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So a couple things.
42:17: Yes, there have been a couple of individuals who have raised a question about how the election results are counted.
42:28: Is there any form of accountability that's taking place behind the scenes to bring about the results and that sort of thing?
42:36: We don't have any reason at this point to doubt what actually happened as far as the results.
42:43: I mean, you could actually make the case that there's a lack of trust with all of the leadership of the
42:51: SBC, and so there should have been greater transparency as it pertains to this specific election and the counting of the votes and that sort of thing.
43:01: And maybe you would see something like that change in the days to come. I'm not one to really put a lot of stock and effort into the actual issue of whether or not this was a legitimate count.
43:15: What we do know is that the elites made their voice known, and they have a very large following within the
43:23: SBC, and so that was able to sway the vote, some 600 votes.
43:28: Another rookie mistake was that that groundswell of large numbers of messengers that came to the
43:34: SBC for the first time, when they voted for their candidate, a lot of them just got up and left the room and went back home, and they thought their work was done, and they would just find out the results on social media or perhaps online that evening or the following day.
43:52: The problem is they failed to realize there was going to be a runoff, and so if you look at the number of messengers that actually cast a ballot for ballot one, and then you compare that with ballot two, there's a distinctive number, a gap there, and it's less messengers voting on ballot two than ballot one.
44:14: So that means that it is quite possible that the people who actually went home could have actually, if they had stayed in the room and voted again, might actually have swayed the election in the opposite direction.
44:27: So there's a lot of things happening at the convention, and during that specific voting session that perhaps could have changed things, but at this point there's no really valid or credible evidence to go on that this election was somehow fraudulent, if that makes sense.
44:46: We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who wants to know, are there pro -abortionists among the more progressive and liberal members and leaders of the
44:58: SBC, this convention, and was the issue of abortion raised, and did it play a prominent role at all in this recent meeting?
45:08: Yes, there was some significant time given to the issue of abortion at this specific convention.
45:19: To the first question, are there pro -abortionists within the SBC, I don't personally know of any pro -abortionists within the
45:28: SBC, whether it be leadership, elites, or whether it be even local church pastors.
45:35: I don't know any that would actually agree with abortion. Where the debate happens within the
45:40: SBC over the issue of abortion is over incrementalism versus an abolitionist position, and that's going to be where the heated debate takes place.
45:51: And so the biggest form of controversy probably in this year's convention was over the issue of abortion, and I'm looking for resolution,
46:06: I believe it was resolution number, let me see here, resolution number three.
46:16: So on resolution number three, the very last resolved actually stated the following.
46:24: It stated, resolved that the Southern Baptists should work through all available cultural and legislative means to end the moral scourge of abortion as we also seek to love, care for, and minister to women who are victimized by the unjust abortion industry, end quote.
46:44: Now the language of victimization for women was controversial, and so there were attempts to strike that language and to make an amendment to suggest that we should not as Southern Baptists be encouraging the idea that women who actually get an abortion are victims of the industry.
47:06: The real victim is actually the unborn child that's being murdered. And so that amendment was actually seen as an unfriendly amendment, and so the resolutions committee did not want to adjust that language.
47:25: And so that was a bit of debate that happened from the floor, and that was controversial, and then there was actually a resolution on the abolition of abortion which was actually not brought to the convention floor originally by the resolutions committee, and that caused controversy which actually resulted in a vote from the floor of the convention while we were waiting on the results from the president's election that actually brought that resolution out of committee onto the floor for consideration.
48:05: And then it was amended to strike some language before it was actually received.
48:14: So yes, there was some controversy related to the issue of abortion, but the main issue within the
48:20: SBC right now would be the issue of that of incrementalism.
48:26: Should we be working within the legislative process to take small steps forward, like quote -unquote the heartbeat bill in some states and that sort of thing, or should we just draw a hard line in the sand and say we're completely against abortion, period, and we're for the complete abolition of abortion?
48:47: And so that's where the controversy stands right now. By the way, folks, you might want to mark down in your calendars that this
48:54: Monday I am going to feature as my guest, God willing, the co -authors of the
49:01: Southern Baptist Convention Abolition Abolition, or should
49:09: I say Abortion Abolition Resolution, Bill Askell and Dusty Devers.
49:15: So you might want to mark your calendars for those two brethren being on the program.
49:23: Just to clarify something you said about the victimization of women, assuming that you would agree with me that an exception would be underage girls that are being coerced or even forced by their parents or others to do this against their will or being given brainwashing on the issue where they're not really understanding what's happening.
49:52: Yeah, absolutely, Chris, but I think that that's a very small number of actual cases of abortion.
49:59: I think the majority of people who go in for an abortion drive in in SUVs and very nice vehicles, and they're not victims at all, and they're choosing to do this, or they're teenagers who are actually choosing to do this with the aid of their parents.
50:18: And so, again, I would venture to say, I don't have the stats before me, but I would venture to say the overwhelming majority of the women who actually go through with an abortion every single year are anything but a victim.
50:32: Yeah, in fact, I was shocked, showing my ignorance on this whole issue,
50:39: I was shocked when my friend, Pastor Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church in Phoenix, Arizona, who is very much on the front lines fighting against infanticide and evangelizing those that are seeking abortions and, or should
51:01: I more accurately phrase it, attempting to murder their children. I was very surprised that he said every single woman, or at least close to that, but I'm fairly certain he did say every single woman, that he has approached at abortion clinics and rebuked them with love that they are entering into a slaughterhouse that is going to murder their child.
51:35: They knew this. They knew that it was murder. They knew that they were murdering a human being.
51:40: That actually surprised me that it was that prevalent that people would, if not know that with certainty, but admit that openly.
51:51: Yeah, that's a striking thing for sure. I've stood out there with my fellow brothers here within the context of our local church, had abortion mills and had the privilege to preach the gospel there on numerous occasions and seen that very same thing.
52:06: I mean, that the women have heckled us and called out to us and opposed the preaching of the word, and they know exactly what they're doing.
52:16: They're acting out of selfishness. They're acting out of idolatry. They're acting out of hate for God and all sorts of things that's actually fueling their desire to actually go in and murder their unborn child.
52:32: So it's a tragedy. And so within the SBC, I don't know of anyone that would be pro -abortion, but I do know of plenty who are a part of the pro -life movement.
52:43: And the pro -life movement, embracing the idea of incrementalism, is very controversial to a lot of people who would say, no, we don't need to support any forms of abortion, period.
52:58: And we need to stand against abortion on all fronts.
53:03: And so we just need to draw a hard line in the sand. And so that's where the critical controversy is as it pertains to this issue.
53:10: We have to go to our midway break, folks. This is the longer -than -normal break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
53:19: FM in Lake City, Florida, is required by the FCC to have a longer break so that they can localize geographically this show and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida.
53:31: They do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things. So while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.
53:40: Please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them.
53:51: We hope that many of you can actually patronize our advertisers, purchase their products, use their services, visit their churches, support their parachurch organizations.
54:03: But when you can't do that, please at the very least respond to our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring
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54:29: Also, send in your questions to joshbice at chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
54:35: We'll be right back after these messages, so don't go away. As we're walking in the light
54:46: Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the
54:59: United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,
55:11: Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including
55:18: John McArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody Balkum, Joel Beakey and James White.
55:23: For details, visit g3conference .com That's G, the number three, conference, dot com.
55:32: Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.
55:39: This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. Fellowshiping with the family
56:01: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the
56:06: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
56:15: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
56:20: NASB. I'm author Gary DeMar, president of American Vision and the
56:25: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm pastor Dan Lebenick of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York and the
56:33: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries and the
56:39: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm reverend Buzz Taylor, author of God's Lawson and the
56:46: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible Church in Bottle Ground, Washington founder of the ministry
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57:01: I'm pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York and the
57:06: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia and the
57:15: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
57:20: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?
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57:53: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough, you know
57:58: I have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
58:05: And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding.
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59:13: That's PTLBibleRebinding .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
59:42: The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
59:53: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
01:00:01: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
01:00:07: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
01:00:12: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
01:00:27: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GCBCNJ .squarespace
01:00:35: .com. That's GCBCNJ .squarespace .com.
01:00:43: Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
01:00:52: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hello, my name is
01:01:05: Anthony Eugenio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com
01:01:12: website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
01:01:19: Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.
01:01:30: Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.
01:01:36: Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.
01:01:46: Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the
01:01:52: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com
01:01:58: podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a
01:02:04: Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keach's Catechism and the
01:02:11: Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
01:02:21: And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.
01:02:31: Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. We are excited to announce another new member of the
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01:05:35: Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Shop and Zion Radio recently.
01:05:41: Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.
01:05:51: Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.
01:05:58: We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.
01:06:04: Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Shop and Zion Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.
01:06:12: Eastern Time, at IronShopandZionRadio .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
01:06:24: Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.
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01:08:37: And again, please mention Chris Orensen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to Pastor Josh Bice and our discussion today on the very controversial event that just took place, the
01:08:51: Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting, before I return to that discussion,
01:08:57: I just have some important announcements to make.
01:09:03: First of all, please continue to pray for my brother John, 76 years old, with cancer and critical stage emphysema in a hospital in Denton, Texas.
01:09:17: He is too weak to speak, and I thank God that through his providence, the hospital is actually in this very same town as a very dear friend of mine, a
01:09:29: Reformed Baptist pastor known as Mac Tomlinson, who is pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.
01:09:35: And Mac has visited my brother three times so far after his return to the hospital, and maybe even visiting him again for the fourth time as we speak.
01:09:49: He has given Pastor Mac, that is my brother, has given
01:09:54: Pastor Mac permission each time to share the gospel with him, but there has been no clear definitive indication that my brother has embraced the gospel.
01:10:08: So I'm asking you to pray that my brother John is truly transformed by the grace and mercy of Christ, that he gives
01:10:18: Pastor Mac and me very vividly clear evidence that he has truly become a new creature, and has truly embraced the gospel, so that I may have comfort, and everybody in my family who believes in Christ may have comfort in knowing that he is certainly on his way to meet his
01:10:40: Savior in glory. So please continue to pray for my brother John, and also pray for physical healing, if that be the will of God.
01:10:50: Also pray for my brother Bob, who is 64 years of age. It may be already completed by now, but he was scheduled to have a tumor removed, a cancerous tumor removed from his bladder today.
01:11:06: So please pray for him and his full recovery. A couple of updates on the
01:11:12: G3 conference. You have heard in some of our ads that Vody Baucom is on the roster.
01:11:19: Well, that is no longer the case, sadly, because not only did
01:11:25: Vody's name originally get removed due to his requiring quadruple bypass surgery, after he declined in health after he was originally scheduled to be on the
01:11:43: G3 conference roster, but now, even though Vody seems to be on the road to full recovery and seems to be doing very well, his schedule now does not line up with the
01:11:57: G3 conference. So please keep that in mind when you're hearing the commercials. But as I said earlier,
01:12:03: Vody's pastor, Dr. Conrad Mbewe, is one of the 20 -plus speakers at this conference, and he is, in my opinion, the most powerful preacher alive on the planet
01:12:14: Earth, and I'm not exaggerating. I've known Conrad since 1996 when
01:12:20: I was in the church where he first preached in regard to his very first visit to the
01:12:27: United States, and I have maintained a friendship with him, by God's grace, ever since.
01:12:33: So I'm really looking forward to that and to see and hear all of the other speakers.
01:12:39: And once again, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com to register.
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01:16:37: Christ -honoring church, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, I may be able to help you find a church.
01:16:43: I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I have helped many people in our audience all over the world find churches sometimes within a few minutes from where they live that didn't even know these churches existed or they didn't know that these churches that they pass by every day were theologically sound.
01:17:04: So if you are in that category of not having a biblically faithful church as your permanent church home or if you're visiting somewhere on vacation and want to visit a biblically faithful church or if you have family, friends, and loved ones without a biblically faithful church, no matter where in the world they live, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:17:27: chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Josh Bice of Praise Mail Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia and founder and president of G3 Ministries on the
01:17:44: Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting, What Happened? That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:17:49: Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence. We have
01:17:55: Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says, For many years
01:18:00: I have heard from Southern Baptist friends of mine who are pastors or prominent members of churches that one of the greatest plagues of that denomination is that there are multitudes of unregenerate people on the membership rolls who bear no fruit of salvation.
01:18:26: Could it be that there are actually many leaders in your opinion? I know that only
01:18:31: God knows the heart, but by the actions of many of the leaders and decisions and ideology, could it be, in your opinion, that there are in this denomination remaining unregenerate people in significant numbers just as in the days when the
01:18:50: Southern Baptist Convention was plagued with liberalism and apostasy? Yeah, Chris, that's a great question.
01:18:58: I would say the answer to that is undoubtedly yes. I would venture to say when Jesus warns and says that, you know, that many will say unto him,
01:19:09: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many mighty works in your name?
01:19:17: Undoubtedly he's talking about people just like what we see in denominational leadership positions or professors at the seminary level or even pastors of local churches.
01:19:27: So, you know, I think that any time we look at a convention of 47 ,000 churches, you're going to have unconverted church members that are going to be, you know, a part of that group.
01:19:43: So, yes, I think that that's definitely true. And then to the point of unregenerate church membership, that's been an ongoing plague because the way that the
01:19:53: Southern Baptist Convention has grown to such large numbers through the years has been on the very issues of pragmatism.
01:20:02: Really, pragmatism has driven the growth of the SBC rather than sound biblical theology and a commitment to the sufficiency of Scripture.
01:20:13: So undoubtedly there are unconverted leaders within the SBC and within local churches that make up the
01:20:20: SBC. So that's something that's quite tragic. But as it pertains to what happened at the convention this year, if we go back to Resolution 2, and I want to get to this before the end of the show,
01:20:32: Chris, is that Resolution 2 was on the sufficiency of Scripture for race and racial reconciliation.
01:20:42: And the problem with this specific resolution was really that it didn't go far enough.
01:20:49: It wasn't really on what it said, although we could quibble and we could argue about the actual idea of racial reconciliation.
01:20:58: There's only one human race, and you don't reconcile races. There's only one race. But it had some good things to say inside of that resolution.
01:21:09: But at the end of the day, the most problematic thing that it said was as it pertained to the resolved statements.
01:21:19: There were three different places that in this resolution it said, any theory, any theory, or worldview.
01:21:30: And so rather than naming critical race theory and intersectionality as out of bounds for the
01:21:37: SBC, they simply used ambiguous language on purpose.
01:21:43: And there were numerous attempts for people to amend this resolution to actually go on record and state that we are standing openly and publicly against critical race theory and intersectionality, but the resolutions committee never would receive that as a friendly amendment.
01:22:02: And so basically what we ended up with was a complete rejection from the leadership of the
01:22:09: Southern Baptist Convention to stand openly opposed to CRT and intersectionality.
01:22:16: Now the striking result of that was that when you watch the news right now, there are soccer moms and common citizens across the nation who are going to school board meetings and all sorts of other local governmental meetings to oppose
01:22:38: CRT and intersectionality, but you have pastors and theologians of the SBC who can't, in fact who refuse to openly go on record as opposing critical race theory and intersectionality.
01:22:51: So I'm not going to get into it on this show, but just suffice it to say I wrote an article that was published today at G3 Ministries' website, so you can go to g3men .org
01:23:03: and you can look for the article where I basically make the case that what actually happened at the
01:23:14: SBC was that we canonized CRTI within the life of the
01:23:19: SBC, and so that's a very serious problem. And right now there's a lot of people who are calling out
01:23:26: Ed Litton and J .D. Greer for plagiarism, and plagiarism is bad. Plagiarism is a problem.
01:23:32: It's a sin of pride and self -exaltation and laziness and all sorts of problems, but at the end of the day this whole brouhaha that's hitting the news right now about the plagiarism of Ed Litton is actually less problematic than what's happening with critical race theory and intersectionality.
01:23:58: This is a dumpster fire that will be put out very soon, but CRTI is a cancer that's going to eat out the actual entities and the institutions that make up the
01:24:10: SBC. In fact, it's going to have an indelible mark on local churches as well, which is extremely problematic.
01:24:17: Now, I'm assuming that most if not all of the more progressive wing of the
01:24:26: Southern Baptist Convention involved in this whole controversy, I'm assuming that at the very least they give lip service to the inerrancy of Scripture, and perhaps
01:24:39: I'm wrong on that, but how far do they go with embracing justifying critical race theory and all that falls under the umbrella of wokeism when it comes to the issues of homosexuality and so -called transgenderism and things that are clearly an abomination to God?
01:25:08: A lot of folks may forget that this is not just involving issues that divide people with different skin colors.
01:25:17: This even goes into the heart of sexual abomination. So if you could, let our listeners know your thoughts on that.
01:25:27: Yeah, Chris, so the elites within the SBC will openly oppose
01:25:34: LGBTQA+. They will openly oppose transgenderism, homosexuality, all of that.
01:25:41: And they will even, as they did at this previous SBC, on the platform make mention of how they oppose
01:25:49: CRT and intersectionality. However, they refuse to officially state it on paper and allow us as a convention to officially vote upon it and make a public statement.
01:26:04: So what the world sees in the newspaper is what we voted upon. They don't see the fine print of what was actually stated from a microphone in the talking points of the moderator of the
01:26:16: SBC's business meeting. They don't see that. And so basically they're covering themselves when they say, you know, we believe in the inerrancy of the
01:26:24: Bible, we believe in the sufficiency of the Bible, we're complementarian, we stand against, you know, all of this woke stuff, we stand against CRT and intersectionality and so on and so forth.
01:26:35: But then when we say, okay, well, fine, then let's go on record and amend this resolution and add critical race theory and intersectionality and name it publicly.
01:26:47: The leadership of the SBC continued to double down and strike those as unfriendly amendments.
01:26:55: And so basically what happened is this. If you look back at 2019 when we adopted
01:27:01: Resolution 9 on critical race theory and intersectionality as analytical tools, which caused a massive controversy, well, what we were saying this year when we just used ambiguous language stating any theory, quote, unquote, well, then what you're doing by not actually naming critical race theory and intersectionality since we already affirmed it in 2019 is you're actually stating that any theory other than critical race theory and intersectionality, we oppose that.
01:27:34: So basically we've canonized CRTI within the SBC, which is extremely problematic, and it gives a cover for the professors who have been teaching and promoting the social justice movement within the
01:27:49: SBC. And so for that reason, you have lots of Southern Baptist churches who are getting ready to exit the
01:27:55: SBC. In fact, Chris, just recently we made an announcement that we're going to be starting a
01:28:00: G3 church network, not a denomination, but a G3 church network to allow churches to partner together and encourage one another and be a part of a pastoral brotherhood and a church network that can promote one another and help one another.
01:28:18: And we've had an astounding response to that. We're going to be releasing that August 2, and so people can be looking for that.
01:28:26: But at the end of the day, suffice it to say, lots of churches have lost confidence in the
01:28:33: SBC, and rightly so. Now, did you just show your hand that Praise Mill Baptist Church will be exiting the
01:28:42: SBC? That's a great question, Chris. I will just go on record as stating publicly that I am actually in favor of that, but I don't want to speak out of turn and speak on behalf of our elders when we haven't officially made an announcement or a decision about that within the context of our local church.
01:29:05: But I will go on record as publicly stating that our elders, including myself, we are all very much disappointed with the
01:29:15: SBC, and we have lost confidence in the leadership of the SBC. We have a listener named
01:29:22: Cindy in Findlay, Ohio, who says, Hello, Pastor Bice and Chris.
01:29:28: Pastor Bice, you had mentioned that the wording in the resolution called women having abortions as victims.
01:29:37: This is bothersome. Incrementalism is certainly an important issue needing to be addressed, but I think it is equally important to address the fact that women who murder their own children are not victims, except in rare cases, as Chris mentioned, that of minors being forced by parents.
01:29:56: And for some reason, Cindy's second half of her e -mail typeface is microscopic, so let me enlarge that.
01:30:06: And while I do so, I'm going to repeat our e -mail address, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
01:30:13: Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. Here we go.
01:30:19: As a 30 -year -old wife who was presented by my husband with the ultimatum of either aborting my child or leaving the marriage,
01:30:31: I chose to leave my marriage. I have to attest to the fact that many women are pressured by their husbands or boyfriends or other parties to have an abortion, yet still that does not make them victims.
01:30:44: It makes them willing accomplices. I would hope the Southern Baptist Convention would stand firm and clear.
01:30:51: Many people who stand behind a woman's right to choose use the victimization argument as their cover, which is really their cowardly retreat.
01:31:00: Do you see this being addressed and clarified? Yeah, I think that the majority of the convention would say, even those who embrace incrementalism would actually disagree with, you know, the idea that a great majority of the women having abortions are actually victims.
01:31:21: I think that that language of victimization was probably placed in there intentionally so to just cover a small percentage of those actual abortions.
01:31:32: But at the end of the day, with the lack of specificity, it makes it very unclear, and therefore
01:31:37: I think completely illegitimate. So for that reason,
01:31:43: I was not able to vote for that resolution, and I actually opposed it. I think that the language of victimization is problematic.
01:31:52: So there's not really much more to say than what she said. I commend her for her boldness and her willingness to obey
01:31:58: God rather than man and to do the right thing, and I pray that we'll have many more that will do that very same thing and stand up and be a voice for the unborn.
01:32:10: Praise God. In fact, the woman who led me to Christ was pregnant when she was 17 years old, and her own mother wanted her to have an abortion, and her aunts were pressuring her, and she left home as a teenager to raise the child on her own.
01:32:33: And that was even before any conversion. So we thank God that there are women who are willing to face the consequences and accept them knowing that the greater good, that infinitely greater good, is to maintain the survival of that precious child within them.
01:32:58: I know that you sometimes ask questions as if you can read minds or something, but what do you think is the major catalyst for this massive acceptance of this dangerously heretical nonsense under the umbrella of wokeism?
01:33:23: Is it fear? Is it fear of being viewed and accused of being racist?
01:33:30: Is it fear of losing members? Is it fear of communities breaking out in physical violence and vandalizing and burning the buildings where they hold worship?
01:33:48: What is going on here that it appears to be nothing less than insanity?
01:33:57: Yeah. Chris, I think that this is one of those questions that has several different layers to it.
01:34:03: I think that there's one layer to this, I would call it the middle section, that has a lot of pastors, a lot of young pastors in that category who would fall into that very spot that you just described as fearful, a desire to be relevant, a desire to say we are up with the times, we stand against racism, we stand against homophobia, we stand against these horrible things, we're to love our neighbor, we're to be just people, all of that.
01:34:41: So when they hear that language of social justice, they're attracted to that and they think, oh, we need to be that type of person, a loving person that embraces all people regardless of skin color and stands against all of these horrible problems of the past.
01:35:01: Now, that's one group of people, but the upper tier, the elites of the leadership, those who actually know better, are promoting the woke movement within the
01:35:15: SBC on purpose. So just like the double -down decision consistently throughout the 2021
01:35:23: SBC annual meeting to refuse at all levels to officially go on record as stating that CRTI is actually unbiblical and out of bounds and antithetical to the gospel or antithetical to God's word was opposed.
01:35:41: And so that was all done on purpose. And we need to remember that it was done on purpose.
01:35:49: And the reason that it's done on purpose is because there's this ongoing deconstructive movement by some of the elites within the
01:35:57: SBC who want to deconstruct the hierarchies within the Southern Baptist Convention and they want to gain and continue to hold the power structures and control the movement moving forward.
01:36:12: And that's the way that you do it. You deconstruct the power structures and then you consistently move the convention in the direction that you want to go.
01:36:21: So you could call it sort of in line with what might be known as the
01:36:28: Hegelian dialectic. And that's a big massive Pandora's box to open for perhaps another show, but suffice it to say, the idea of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis, in order to get from thesis to synthesis, you have to introduce chaos.
01:36:49: You have to introduce the antithesis. And that's what the elites are doing behind closed doors to move the
01:36:58: SBC that was once conservative to a more progressive denomination.
01:37:04: And people like Ed Stetzer and Russell Moore and others have been doing this for many years and they've influenced a large group of younger pastors to follow in their footsteps.
01:37:19: Well, I actually thank God that I dodged a bullet when I was eagerly encouraged by folks who
01:37:29: I know years ago to interview Russell Moore. And I actually, in ignorance, not knowing of any of the other baggage about him and going by the recommendations of some,
01:37:42: I was contacting him a number of times to interview him and never heard back. So I just want to thank
01:37:49: God for preventing that from happening. Obviously, I'd be more than happy to have him on the show to have him debate or have someone on an opposing side confront him, but I don't want to give him a platform to promote what he's doing.
01:38:05: We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very faithful listener to this program and generous supporter.
01:38:15: Financially, Grady says, Chris and Josh, I left the Southern Baptist Convention about 25 years ago but still have a heart for them because my great -great -grandfather donated land for two
01:38:27: Southern Baptist churches and I have lots of family and friends still in the Southern Baptist Convention.
01:38:34: With the integrity issues from plagiarism with Ed Litton, is it possible to have him removed as president and replaced with someone that is more biblical?
01:38:47: Yeah, that's a fantastic question. The way that the structure works within the SBC is that we have a president and we have multiple vice presidents.
01:38:59: And so the reason that we have those vice presidents is for cases of inability to function as the leader who's been elected.
01:39:08: And so that would mean if Ed Litton resigned under pressure because of all of this controversy or if he were to be sick or unable to lead in some way, then of course the vice president would step up and actually assume that responsibility.
01:39:30: So unfortunately what would not happen is that we would not be called back to another called business session where we would have another chance to vote or we would be able to bring
01:39:43: Mike Stone, who actually lost in the runoff, into this position. So that's not going to happen.
01:39:49: If the conservatives within the SBC are going to have that conservative resurgence 2 .0,
01:39:57: so to speak, they're going to actually have to begin with electing a conservative president who can be elected two consecutive years and then keep that ball rolling for some 15 years.
01:40:09: And during those years, the conservative presidents will be actually appointing key members of various committees who then appoint trustees at seminary levels who then control the presidents, who then control the faculty.
01:40:27: And so it's a top -down movement, but it takes a lot of effort to get to that point. And that actually did happen back in the 80s and 90s with the conservative resurgence movement, starting with Adrian Rogers and moving forward.
01:40:41: But it looks like right now that's not to be until a later date.
01:40:47: And we have to go to our final break. If you have a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnson at gmail .com.
01:40:54: ChrisArnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. We'll be right back with Pastor Josh Bice right after these messages.
01:41:03: Music Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.
01:41:22: I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the
01:41:28: G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.
01:41:34: The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all. My friend Chris Arnson and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including
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01:41:49: More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.
01:41:56: For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com.
01:42:01: Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.
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01:50:20: That's liyfc .org. Welcome back.
01:50:28: We have R .J. in White Plains, New York, who has a question for you,
01:50:33: Pastor Josh. In 2 Corinthians 6, 14 -17, we read,
01:50:40: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers? For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
01:50:46: And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
01:50:56: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living
01:51:01: God, and as God hath said, I will dwell in them and walk in them, and I will be their
01:51:07: God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore, come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the
01:51:15: Lord. And I was wondering, how do any of you who remain in the
01:51:20: Southern Baptist Convention have an ability to believe and embrace and actually live by these commandments if you remain with the infidels in the convention?
01:51:35: Well, that's a good question. I think it would probably be unwise to call the vast majority of the
01:51:45: SBC infidels, but I would say that I strongly disagree with them on some very important issues, and for that reason, we at the local church are meeting as elders to determine our path forward as our church, and we've allowed our church to know that that conversation is in place, and that is also true for many other local churches as well.
01:52:14: And so we're going to be forming a G3 church network that will allow for local churches to partner together like -minded in theology and ministry philosophy and be able to serve and engage in projects, missions, and have pastoral retreats and things of that nature that would be a great encouragement to those pastors and churches that feel homeless right now, and that's basically where a lot of churches are.
01:52:44: So on these issues, as it pertains to issues related to social justice and critical race theory, these are big issues.
01:52:57: These are not small little issues that we're talking about here. So for that reason, many people are exiting and planning to exit the
01:53:04: SBC. Now, there are some who are planning to stay in and try to fight out a bloody war and try to bring the convention back to a conservative stand and position and therefore cause those types of individuals to then exit the
01:53:22: SBC. The problem with that for a lot of churches is that they feel like they're wasting their time because this has already been done once before, and even if you are successful, how do you know that it's going to remain successful for the next 20 or 30 years in the future?
01:53:39: So for that reason, a lot of people are planning to exit the SBC and have completely given up on any hope moving forward.
01:53:46: Now, one of the problems that has existed in the SBC for a very long time is that the war for biblical truth was not really completely one with the exodus of liberals from the convention and its institutions because there have always been those amongst the conservatives that would agree with you and I on inerrancy and on the basic tenets of the gospel and over much of Christian theology and teaching, but at the same time are really our enemies when it comes to the doctrines of grace.
01:54:36: There are many in the SBC, in the conservative wing, who absolutely detest
01:54:44: Calvinism, reformed theology, the doctrines of sovereign grace, etc. So how do you maintain a good conscience knowing that even if there was a victory for conservatism, you still have these in -house enemies that despise what we believe, you and I, and those in the
01:55:08: Founders Movement and those that are theologically reformed within the convention, who some might even have the level of hatred for these things that they would view them as the doctrine of demons.
01:55:21: So how do you cope with that? Yeah, that's a good question, Chris. And that's been something that's been difficult to reconcile for a long time for me personally.
01:55:34: We've always been able to find groups and networks within the SBC's big tent that we've found as being closer to where we stand and friendly with us on the doctrines of grace, and we've been able to work together fairly well.
01:55:52: But over the last several years, there's been a chasm and a division over these issues of social justice.
01:55:59: And so this idea of winning the war on inerrancy and this conservative resurgence years ago, yeah, well, in many ways we can say, man, that was a wonderful victory, but the problem is the convention really never won the war on sufficiency.
01:56:15: And so pragmatism, like a cancer, has caused the convention to make really, really bad decisions.
01:56:23: And so for that reason, here we are now, debating at the 2021
01:56:28: Southern Baptist Convention whether or not we should actually, as a convention, go on public record as opposing critical race theory and intersectionality.
01:56:39: In fact, the chairperson for the resolutions committee, when the amendment was being brought to him to actually change that language and actually go on record as opposing critical race theory and intersectionality, his name is
01:56:56: James Merritt. And James Merritt actually sort of talked down to the man who was making the amendment and talked down to those of us in the convention who were wanting us to actually go on record, and he made the statement from the microphone.
01:57:13: He said, if some people in this convention were as passionate about the gospel as they are
01:57:19: CRTI, we would win the world to Jesus tomorrow.
01:57:25: And at that moment, it was striking, there was a massive applause to that statement, which
01:57:33: I felt to be very demeaning, number one, but then number two, it's an ignorant statement, because that would be like stating that if Paul was somehow more passionate for the gospel than he was about the heresy of the
01:57:48: Judaizers in the Church of Galatia, then the folks that were lost in Galatia would have been won to Christ at a faster rate than they were because of his being somewhat sidetracked by focusing on the heresy.
01:58:04: So what we must remember is that preaching the gospel and defending the faith are not mutually exclusive.
01:58:10: We need to do both of those things. And so that is why many, many people are considering leaving the
01:58:17: Southern Baptist Convention, and it's really sad, to be quite honest. We need men who will have a backbone of steel and a resolve to stand and to be steadfast and to preach the gospel and to preach the
01:58:31: Word of God and to not be swayed by the progressives. And so that's the problem, that's where we are today, and I'm just very hopeful moving forward that the churches that stand with us within G3 Ministries, that we can make a difference moving forward.
01:58:49: Praise God, and I want to repeat your websites, praisemill .com,
01:58:55: p -r -a -y -s -mill .com, for Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia, and g3conference .com,
01:59:03: g3conference .com for the G3 Conference, and g3min .org, g3min .org
01:59:10: for G3 Ministries. I want to thank you, Pastor Josh, for taking such a bold stance on very vital issues.
01:59:19: I want to thank you for your friendship. I want to thank you for your partnership with me for these past four years regarding the
01:59:26: G3 Conference. I look forward to seeing you this fall, God willing, when I man my exhibitors booth there, and I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.
01:59:39: I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater