News Roundup: Abortion, Profanity Homeschool History, Crusades, Liberty, Cru, Nazarenes

Conversations That Matter

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We are live on the conversations that matter podcast. We're gonna try this again today This is the second attempt.

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My computer is not behaving and if it freezes again, then I probably will abandon the effort and We'll see about doing a podcast perhaps tomorrow

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I've ran some tests on the computer and everything seems to be fine Which doesn't make sense because it kept freezing and then

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I'd have to restart it and I was having difficulty even getting back into Windows So we'll see.

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I'm not, you know computer nerd necessarily. I know a little bit about computers So this is throwing me for a little bit of a loop.

00:37

I think everything's updated Hardware seems to be fine. So I don't know. I don't know what's going on.

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But anyway, we're gonna persevere and We have a lot to talk about today. The reason that I haven't been doing as many podcasts lately

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There's there's a few but one of the main ones is I've been on everyone else's podcast. That's really what's happened And I think

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I need to do that to promote the 1607 documentary There's gonna be audiences that they're not listening to me and they might listen to another host

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And so I think one of the biggest ones I was on this week I went on a few but I guess last week was the

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Tom Woods show and you can check out Friday's actually I think it is the last episode perhaps if you go to the feed for Tom Woods And I did a podcast yesterday with Will Spencer.

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That was about two and a half hours long Long podcast and we talked about 1607 but we also talked about the origins of this particular podcast and my internet presence and he asked me a lot of questions that Had me talking about things.

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I have not talked about on The conversations that matter show so I will link that when

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I get a chance In fact, what I'll do is for the patrons. I will send you an update and I'll just link to all the different Podcasts if I can remember all of them that I've been on over the last two weeks

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That haven't been this one, but it's time today for the conversations that matter podcast, that's the podcast that I Obviously run and it's the one that where I get to share my unfiltered views on I guess whatever

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But mostly today it's gonna be on Christian related stuff because some controversies going on on social media but also some

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I'm gonna reveal some things about some Christian organizations That I think you ought to be aware of and it none of them will be shocking for people who listen to this podcast regularly, but I think it's good to keep the pressure on and Let Institutions that are

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Christians know hey We are still paying attention if you're gonna go social justice if you're gonna go woke if you're gonna keep pumping in these things

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We're gonna mention it. We're gonna talk about it And I think parents who send their kids to educational institutions that do that kind of thing thinking that these institutions are solid ought to know those things and if anything this my experience has been a remedy because Some institutions will bend to outside pressure institutions that will not bend to inside pressure

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Often and so it's in that spirit that I do some of this and we will I will reveal during the course of the podcast

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More and more we have people Filtering in it looks like I am on Facebook this time, which is good.

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It wasn't working before so we're on Facebook We're on YouTube. We're on X and I will upload to rumble later.

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It doesn't look like that one's working right now, but I think that's on me I don't think I insert When rumbles different than the other ones you have to do a whole bunch of stuff and I didn't do it

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So anyway, well, let's start. Let's see with what topic are we gonna start today? Let's Let me just announce this and then we will start the

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Fundamentals conference is coming up. This is a men's conference. It's really just a weekend so it's not that long but it's in a beautiful beautiful part of the country in the

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Adirondack Mountains and When people hear about New York, they don't think of the Adirondack Mountains and they come and they realize how beautiful it is but we have an excellent facility excellent food excellent fellowship excellent speakers this year and Check it out.

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You go to fundamentals conference. Calm. There's different price options if you want single occupancy meaning you're gonna

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Room yourself alone and you want the privacy? It's three hundred and ten dollars actually, you really can't beat that for what you're getting you're getting a really good food and we have a culinary graduate who is overseeing all the food and If you want triple quad occupancy, in other words, you're gonna be bunking with other people $220 if you go to the website, there should be you have the schedules there and there should be a carpool set up I think the link is somewhere and now

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I'm looking for it and I'm not seeing it Oh, there it is sign up for carpool So you can also sign up for a carpool if you're coming from a certain area and there's other people

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Coming from that area. So I wanted to mention that looking forward to that. That's gonna be happening now in less than a month

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Wow, wow does time fly? when that starts so All right,

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Forge and Anvil says I thought New York was only pizza and rats What are what are these mountains that you speak of?

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Well, you got to come you got to come to the fundamentals conference. You'll find out there's some of the most beautiful Mountains.

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In fact, if you look at a map of New York, just just do this go to Your search engine type in map of New York and you're gonna see in the sort of the center right of the state

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There's going to be a large section. It's like a big oval and that's the Adirondack National or not national.

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Sorry State Park It's huge. It is it's incredibly big like in fact, it might be the biggest

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State Park in the country And it's bigger than a lot of national parks. It's just huge. So Yankees lie about mountains.

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Thanks, Sean. Appreciate that You'll you got to come and see and I you know some if you judge me by what people say about me on Twitter I'm not a

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Yankee, right? So I wouldn't steer you wrong on this Think Sean's been watching too much of Shane or something.

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Well, let's start with Some of the institution institutions that still have and it's not unexpected but some woke problems, okay, and Don't expect

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I just will say this at the first first part of this people will reach out to me and ask me

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John where's a College or a seminary that's not woke that I can send myself or my children or some friend or whoever and I will say

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The way that you're approaching it already is off because You're about ninety nine point nine percent

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Guaranteed you're going to encounter some social justice stuff. It is in the water It is going to be at the most conservative places.

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It shouldn't be but this has been percolating for a long time and There aren't many institutions that have really taken extreme measures or even

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Extremes not even the word just common -sense measures aggressive measures to drive this stuff out and So you're gonna have a mix of stuff and that's what

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I tell everyone. So especially at large institutions where there's a lot of people employed and Even if they have rules against teaching certain things, we don't do

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CRT here, right? I mean how many states pass those laws and the public schools in those states are still teaching

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CRT, right? They're just using different names. There's It's the same concepts. So if you have a large

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Christian University large Christian institution denomination They say we're not doing any of that.

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You can't really trust that Obviously, it's happening somewhere because it's in the water This is what a lot of people believe even the people who don't think they believe it usually believe aspects of it

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And if it's not being all, you know, if you have a big university and you're not in every classroom

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Then there's gonna be teachers who are pushing it anyway So I just want to preface it with that.

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You just have to prepare your students your children for encountering these ideas That's why I wrote the books. I wrote that's why

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I wrote especially Christianity and social justice so you will have resources when you go into these fights so let's talk about a few institutions though just to let everyone know that what

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I just said is true and We're gonna start with Liberty University, which is a place that is dear to my heart and I'm just gonna point this out.

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So if you go to their class that's called for Yeah for no not for 47

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I thought I had it Oh for 49 I think it's this one 49 Yeah, it's called church ministries capstone

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Let me just read for you the description of this course a capstone course designed to equip the student in developing a master plan for ministry and Will focus on reviewing the acquired knowledge value and skills of the church ministry curriculum

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This course seeks to integrate the concept techniques and knowledge of all areas of church ministry. This course is designed to be taken the final semester for graduating seniors attention is given to the students spiritual personal ministry life now

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Sounds like a great course right sounds solid and Like you, you know, you wouldn't think that going into that you're gonna it's not gender studies.

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We'll put it that way, right? So Someone sent this to me who shall be anonymous, but this is these are

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Assignments from that particular class So I'm gonna read for you these assignments and then we'll talk about it

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I do feel the need to just say as I'm doing this because it kind of kills me a little I love Liberty University and You know, some people might think you know, you're shooting yourself in the foot from ever working there ever

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Yes, that could be that very well could be but In my experience, especially at Liberty.

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They do respond when people say things online about them. I Don't know what it is

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Well, I do know what it is, but I I don't know why that works. It seems to sometimes Be a mechanism that is more effective than even internal When concerns are raised internally, you know, so So yeah parents and students who are there.

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My understanding is these questions have been there at least from 2021 to 2023 and Possibly they're still there at the school if you enroll in this class.

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So here are the questions, okay? Scenario one as a church as church leadership

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You all have been praying for a minority elder for the past eight months as you find yourself between two elders

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You are forced to make a decision as you only have enough budgeted funds to hire one more role

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The white elder candidate is an excellent communicator with a master's degree He has no egregious moral failures and gels amazingly with your team

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The minority elder candidate is not as great of a communicator. But is this racist is this does that qualify for what people call racist?

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I don't know. He's not as great a communicator apparently the minority, but he's a ton of potential The minority elder is too loud and yells when he preaches

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He seems to be a little too loud for your church body. The minority elder has no egregious moral failures the tension the

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Team, I don't know why they even inserted the moral failures part there Neither of them have moral failures the tension the team feels is that strictly on paper?

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They would hire the white guy in a heartbeat However, the reality that the other guy is black makes the team feel guilty that he should be hired

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Anyway, is this black hire just tokenism? Should we just wait for the right black guy if we hire the white guy?

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Are we sinful work with your group to decide what you would do as a local church? Now here's we'll talk about it here's a second scenario as a youth pastor who is predominantly

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Caucasian students as Let's see here. Yeah, I guess maybe

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I'm correcting the grammar of the question You have been invited to participate in an urban summer camp with mostly african -american and latino students

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Oh A youth pastor not as a youth pastor. Okay, so there's a you this is a scenario There's a youth pastor going to a camp

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The parents feel that this summer camp is not the best option for their children to attend

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Because of the racial tensions present within the country they request a meeting with the youth pastor

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To voice their concerns about their children attending an all -urban camp As a youth pastor, how would you calm the concerns of parents and ensure them that this camp would be?

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Would be a great experience for their children to attend and I think there's one more I Guess I'll just read this real quick to you.

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This is another scenario Scenario a new couple starts to visit your church. They are married with nine adopted children

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They have been together for 13 years and have had at least four of their children for over five years

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Every church they have visited has quirk quickly push them out Why because this couple is

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Mike and James two men The couple has been visiting your church for six weeks when a few deacons decided it's time to confront

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The pastor and find out if he's going to hand how he's gonna handle the situation. They are not happy That their children are in Sunday school with the kids from the family

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They do not want their kids to get the wrong message. So question one How would you advise the pastor to respond to these deacons the following week one of the men?

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In the couple Mike decides during the invitation that he wants to surrender his life to Jesus and responds

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He is broken that people have been praying for them and everyone is excited for him the next day

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He sends the pastor an email and wants him to meet about his decision and what this means for his life

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He brings his husband James to meet his alleged husband Well, let's just correct that to the meeting and they began to ask the following questions and the questions are what does the

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Bible say? But homosexuality does giving my life to Jesus mean that we have to break up. What about our kids?

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Well this rip our kids away from their parents And if so, what message will this send to the kids about the church?

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If not, what message is being sent about your views on sin to the church? Do you ask them to stop having sex if you do then?

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How do you respond when James says that makes no sense? We are married question two

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How would you advise the pastor to answer these questions and other questions that surround the situation? All right, so This may seem pretty mild.

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I think from those who live through 2020 it probably is but given some of the extreme things we saw but In principle, especially that last question.

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There's nothing wrong with bringing up Dynamics that are around us in a ministry setting and saying we have to address these challenges

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The concern though that I have with something like this especially the racial ones

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Which I'll go back to so you can see what I'm looking at here. Is that In either question the way that it's framed seems to be

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Inserting Assumptions into the minds of those making the decision here the students who are supposed to be giving advice or figuring out how to navigate this that that the dynamics are such that you

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You ought to be on eggshells. You ought to be Somehow considering how this looks how this looks externally

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What does this say about your church if you hire the the black guy, right? Which I think the focus is in the exact wrong place

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You know like and I would say that extends even to this other scenario with gender and sexuality

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The whole focus the way it's framed is How does this look?

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What's the message that's being sent about your views on sin to the church? What's the message? This will send to our kids about the church

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You know, what's the message? I mean, I don't know The fact that in that scenario it seems like this goes on for a while and It's not addressed that that alone seems to be there's a problem already with the church

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Like what? Why is it that the pastor has taken it? That should take one Sunday, I would think

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And you can do it in a friendly way, but you let them know that this is not Something that the church condones.

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It does not mean that you are Hostile to those who come into the church whether they be homosexual whether they be boyfriend -girlfriend living in an adulterous situation but there should be

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I think whether it's from the pulpit or whether it's in personal interaction if there's gonna be involvement to the point that They're dropping their kids off in Sunday school in the nursery.

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There needs to be a conversation pretty early on So this is like the the can seems to be kicked down the road at this point and they're asking, you know

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What is this gonna say? Well, how is your response going to? look to people and and then the same thing with this racial tension scenario, except I think this one's worse because you're

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Inserting the idea into people's minds that they should be considering these dynamics in their hiring that they should be looking at well, you know like because the guy's black apparently even if he is not as qualified that should count for something and And And obviously you can this is open -ended so you could answer the question by saying no this isn't biblical like we're gonna just go with the standard scripture has for Hiring leaders and elder and deacon qualifications and that kind of thing.

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You can just do that. Of course I will just say this though. I have it on very good authority.

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Very good authority I'm not going to out anyone here, but that At least in one scenario that kind of answer was not accepted, okay, so that's that I'll say that's all

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I'll say for now, but There is an agenda that's still

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Operating in our Christian institutions I'm not even blaming you Liberty University for this as far like the people in administration may not even know what's going on in some

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Of these classes. Okay, so I I don't I don't know But this kind of thing is going to happen and this is the real point you send your kids to a solid

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University a Christian University University that's trying to take measures to guard against these kinds of things you're probably gonna get stuff like this that even if it's not as overt as Perhaps in 2020 it seemed to be it still will insert ideas into your children's mind

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Ideas that may not have been there before Without I would say the necessary guardrails and the thinking through it the guidance that they need to actually navigate this because really what they should be told in my

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Opinion here is in a church ministry scenario. We have guidance from Scripture.

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This is what it says about qualifications people who come to you and try to Give you other qualifications and say that no it needs to be

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The race should factor into this because of Systemic racism or something like that, you know, we're just not going to follow that because that is a foreign

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Requirement that the scripture doesn't know about I would say to I would just add at the end.

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I suppose of this particular scenario that Suitability does mean something. So when you look in the

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Qualifications and Titus and Timothy for elders and deacons You do see some things that require prudence and wisdom to navigate, right?

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What's hospitable in New York, for example is not the same as what's hospitable in Mississippi.

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I know this very well You don't just drop in Necessarily on people in New York that's considered a rude thing

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But in Mississippi, it can still be considered rude if you don't do it, right? So there are these cultural things that I think we we apply biblical principles in within So I'm not saying you don't take any cultural factors into consideration

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But clearly what's going on in this assignment is an assumption that there have been historic wrongs

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Against black people in this country and that should somehow now affect the way that you Approach hiring someone and it should also affect the way that you approach parents who aren't comfortable about their kids going to a camp

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Where apparently there's a lot of black and Latino kids Usually those in a scenario like that.

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That's that's not even the full picture. There's probably Concern is somewhere along the lines of I think even it might even has said that it was urban.

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Let me just check It was an urban camp, right? See they mean yeah urban it says urban so yeah,

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I mean if it's 2020 and your church wants to go to an urban camp with your eight -year -old and they're gonna bring your eight -year -old and it's kids from that local area and there's been a lot of Riots and a lot of I mean that it's the setting

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Also, it's not or it could it really only solely be the setting and it may have nothing to do with the quote -unquote racial

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Makeup of the or the you know, the genetics that the other kids at this camp out But you're taking them to a place that might be considered dangerous.

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And so the way it's framed though in this scenario is Which I think is a more realistic scenario what

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I just described but the way it's framed is that Parents feel that this summer camp is not the best option because of racial tension and And then they request a meeting and so how would you calm the concerns of the parents?

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Maybe the parents have a legitimate concern like right like you're not that's not even something that you entertain in this scenario

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Like clearly the parents are wrong. That is the assumption from the beginning. So there you go.

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I think that It would be good if maybe This ends up getting into the hands of admins at Liberty University you might want to just check out your church ministries capstone class ch mn 489 and see if this kind of thing is still being

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Taught there and if so, then maybe that it might be good to think about correcting that so I do this in love and I do this with the assumption that this kind of thing is

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Will hopefully be dealt with At some point so I still encourage by the way and I've said this before I still encourage people check out

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Liberty University There's a it's a city basically. So if you're looking for a place to send your your students who want to go to college then

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I'm not Endorsing giving like a full endorsement, but I will say the history department

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I think I can pretty much fully endorse but I'm not like giving a full endorsement for everything there But it is a place to check out and depending on the school

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I get you know, the School of Music from what I understand. It's just excellent You know my few know this if you know this but if you listen to podcasts a while You know that I did at one time

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Do some work for Liberty and I have my my master's in history from Liberty Liberty is a place

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I love dearly and I used to go to a lot of concerts there and things that the music department put on and so Nothing at all against Liberty University, this could be any university.

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This could be any Christian college I'm telling you just about it's almost across the board that way.

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All right Well, let's talk about another Christian organization. Shall we let's talk about crew now

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Crew is an organization. I've spent a lot of time on obviously and they have a new president

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David Robbins July So last month he became president and he was in charge of family life, which is one of Cruz ministries

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And so I got an email. This is kind of a funny story, I guess but I got an email from someone Who immediately said this is a positive development or it was very positive about it.

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David Robbins is probably gonna be better He'll do the right thing. He'll help crew because Cruz had some real problems with LGBTQ Normalization with social justice stuff.

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Well, here's the thing The very next day literally with less than 24 hours later.

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I'm pretty sure I got an email from someone And it totally disconnected not even about David Robbins, but they just and by the way, your emails are helpful for this reason

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They wanted to let me know about family life and the email they got from family life

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So this is the organization David Robbins oversaw This document that I'm about to show you had to have been created or at least the start of it

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I think the whole thing probably under David Robbins. Okay, this was this was released as he was ascending to the presidency of crew

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So and it took work to in time to put together so this would have been under David Robbins I'm sure that this document was put forward and they sent it to me and they said look

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I got this email from crew and The email if you scroll down has this a link.

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It says racial trauma how to comfort a friend Now this is just a general email that sent out racial trauma can cause powerful physical and emotional responses

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Find ways to receive your friend's story with empathy and openness Grab and download this so the crew is putting this out, right?

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This is the crew that's not woke anymore They always say they never were but they're you know, they've gotten rid of this stuff.

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Oh, they don't have lenses anymore okay, so here's the The document let me just download this we'll open the file.

25:20

Okay Here's the document. So how to comfort a friend racial trauma

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Racial trauma, it's the holistic response people of color experience. So white people

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I'm sorry You do not have access to claiming the term racial trauma for yourself

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It's prevented from being applied to you. It is a response that people of color all caps, by the way experience due to persistent acts of discrimination bias and even hate

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Racial trauma and its aftermath are destructive forces to families and generations around the world now I don't even have to read anymore.

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You already know it's woke. You already know it's woke How do you know it's woke because it's only something people of color experience.

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Oh Man Receive your friend's story with empathy and openness rather than providing a one -stop shop for healing

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Kim let's see here Can be important step towards restoration Galatians reminds us bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ as you seek

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To comfort your friend hold space for the sorrow and justice spring So it's developing the posture of listening and accepting when they went when someone who in it

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I guess not a white person, but a person of color comes to you and they have a story. You just got to accept it you got a

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Not not just This even it goes beyond listening, right? This is an empathy and an openness

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You got to put yourselves in their shoes. That's empathy and then you have to just be totally open It could be

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I guess the most wild story, but you got to be open The first service one owes to others in a community involves listening to them

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Let's see I'm gonna skip down here cuz you don't have tired to go time to go through this whole thing It's a Dietrich Bonhoeffer quote

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All right Establish trust then extend the invitation if you feel comfortable. I'd like to understand what happened to you

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Would you feel like telling me your story pause before you respond praying to invite the Holy Spirit to love your friend so it gives you a

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Flow sheet here validate their experience. There it is validate their experience. That sounds horrible I hate that that happened to you express your gratitude that your friend trusted you with the story of vulnerability

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So you have to validate their experience? Well, what if their experience isn't true? What if they're falsely accusing other people of bigotry that they don't actually harbor you just got to validate it in according to this

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Ask them these other questions You know, would you feel comfortable telling me more?

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How did it make you feel all that kind of stuff? Affirm your friends God give God given worth

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So your culture heritage and race were treated like they were a weakness or something to be looked down on but to me they give

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You so much strength. I know more about God's character because I know as a person who bears his image.

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I Everyone's got a culture and things that define them and you know

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I think things that are part of the creative order are good. You shouldn't You shouldn't castigate those things.

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But look if someone's coming from a community, let's say we're a family you could you could have a family as the example here and it's just really broken and messed up right and You probably have to be careful about saying that kind of thing

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You know, maybe their family isn't great maybe the community that came from isn't the greatest for them and Maybe they this is something that they have to overcome and you're gonna help them overcome it

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That could also be something you say to someone look you've you've got some damaging things from the culture.

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You came up with in wherever that was and it sounds like your family had issues and the society that existed around you it was

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Encouraging sin and you were involved in it and look I'm gonna help you. I'm here cuz I'm gonna help you I got sin in my own heart, but we want to bring you to a more stable place

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We want to help you and that's very different than what they're saying here Encourage them to take the space they need to heal and grieve

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It's just the whole thing is just very therapeutic If it becomes hard to listen to your friend realize

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This is a normal feeling assess your own emotions and ask yourself why you might be reacting this way

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If it feels hard to believe something so different from your own experience realize your reality may be very different from your friends

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Consider that could have been phrased better consider how you could continue learning about experiences like theirs

29:51

Wow, this is so manipulative first Corinthians 12 Talks about the gifts in the body of Christ, right?

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It says particularly as Christians none of us can say I don't need you when one of us suffers we all suffer so Yeah, like if someone has a spiritual gift, you can't say that that you don't need their spiritual gift

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Which is what that's talking about. It's not talking about like I don't need you because of your ethnic or cultural background

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So the way they apply verses here is bizarre to me Okay, what not to say how not to respond it says

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Invalidation and minimizing of impact this happens to everyone. So if you tell someone this happens to everyone Then you don't say that now, by the way,

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I will say I've off I have had to hear in my life things like that when I have gone through really hard things

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I have needed someone to say, you know what this is life. This happens life What's the line from the

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Princess Bride Bride life is pain, right? Maybe it's not quite that bad, but We are called by Jesus to bear our cross every day

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There's gonna be pain in life. And sometimes you do need to hear that but they're saying not to say that Disbelief that it's racist.

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What does Paul even say do not be surprised when the fiery affliction comes to you I mean, come on. All right disbelief that it's racism asking a lot of questions

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Okay, I'm sure they were stressed and you just happen to be there. So, okay, so don't try to Give sometimes this you need this to though.

31:20

Someone's reading someone else wrong. They treated you rudely It had nothing to do with bigotry Maybe they were having a bad day and some sometimes

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I'm not saying for every scenario this is gonna range But they're just ruling these things out Highlighting of innocent intentions like I think there was that was their intention in trying to get in their heads of the the culprit

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Rush to problem -solving, you know, some of this stuff is not necessarily unwise like if I just preached on last

31:46

Sunday, we're supposed to Admonish and really encourage the faint -hearted help the weak be patient with all so there are times when if it's someone who's truly a faint -hearted

31:57

And they're not ready for Maybe some admonishment. Let's say they're Well, let's say you can't validate you don't know it's just someone just sharing a story

32:07

There's no way to validate or invalidate anything Yeah, probably not good to just start questioning it necessarily but if you know more sometimes you do need to do that defending the status quo personal defensiveness

32:24

Okay, don't do any of those things be sensitive with your desire to apologize to apologize There's a therapist

32:31

Wow, okay, it was therapeutic there's a therapist an author Shadeen Francis that states and how to talk with your black friends about race and Apology without action is empty.

32:41

So to apologize for racism that is not here we go. Here we go You're I don't know what to say.

32:48

So you I guess you're gonna apologize for racism that you've Have you part you're a white person,

32:55

I guess that makes you guilty Apologize for racism that is not new and that you benefit from that you benefit from there you go

33:02

It's racism because you're benefiting from it It doesn't actually serve the goal of being supportive and it also it feels like the others

33:09

Person's responsibility to to somehow make that right by saying it's fine

33:15

Okay, so I guess You have to okay, so this is what they're saying if you're gonna apologize you got to have action behind it

33:24

You can't just apologize Because then they're obligated to forgive you and that would be terrible.

33:31

Oh my goodness Can you believe this is this is right now? This is crew. This is crew right now formerly campus crusade for Christ This isn't crew from 2019.

33:41

This isn't crew from 2020. This is crew 2024 right put out by family life the organization that the current president of crew

33:50

David Robbins Oversaw and this document would have been created when David Robbins was still in charge of that organization.

33:57

So Make of that what you will but Crew is not out of the woods at all.

34:03

All right Let's talk about one more organization making actually a positive stride. Let me give you some good news

34:09

You want some good news today? I think we should have some good news So we're talking about the

34:14

Church of the Nazarene and The Church of the Nazarene. So this is I'll start here.

34:20

I talked about this before on the podcast This is not ancient history. This is from Actually one day less than a year ago.

34:28

So this is from 364 days, I think ago the Nazarene Gnat is the

34:34

I guess account on Facebook and the

34:41

Nazarene Gnat revealed that pastor Jay Ord and Alexa Ord have a book that they they published previously, but they have a second edition that was coming out at the time and The title of the book is why the

34:56

Church of the Nazarene should have a conversation about being LGBTQ plus affirming Okay, I don't need to say anything more.

35:03

I don't need to show you anything more I did that on a previous podcast But just so you know who Thomas Jay Ord is this is the kind of thing that he's promoting now

35:12

Good news from a very very leftist source, which is Baptist News Global I mean Mark Wingfield is way out like you can't even see him.

35:18

He's so far left in my opinion you read his stuff It's just a but this is the news organization that covered the matter expelled from his own denomination ord still holds out hope for change, so he was expelled a

35:32

Nazarene pastor and professor who was labeled a heretic and expelled from membership in his nomination told

35:38

Baptist News Global that he still has hope for the church of His childhood to break free of impulses toward legalism.

35:43

Oh, that's I mean he literally contradicted Nazarene doctrine, okay He literally went against it

35:51

So it goes on and says what you would expect, but I wanted to point something out here.

35:57

I think it's about this guy Is it about this guy Selden D.

36:03

Kelly Let me see yes, I think so so this is another story. This is from July These are things are both from this is yeah both from July Nazarene this is before this story came out before that one

36:16

Nazarene cracks down on LGBTQ welcoming leaders So who's one of those leaders not just Thomas J.

36:21

Ord who's you know is obvious, but this other guy D. Kelly among Nazarene's D.

36:30

Kelly I Think that's the guy that I want to talk about yeah It's a D. Kelly Well, I'll just read it.

36:39

It says he served as pastor of San Diego first Baptist first Baptist ha I'm so used to talking about Baptist San Diego first Church of the

36:48

Nazarene for 17 years Was found guilty of teaching that contradicts the church doctrine he wrote an essay in Thomas J.

36:55

Orde's book so the book that I just showed you He wrote an essay and so it was on that basis that he was kicked out

37:03

He said I'm currently prohibited from joining two people in same -sex matrimony I can't imagine withholding blessing encouragement counsel of love.

37:10

Yeah, I can't I mean God can All right, and then there is this guy

37:17

Rick power all right This is a guy I want to talk about Rick power a Nazarene pastor and leader for 46 years resigned in April from his job as superintendent of the church's

37:24

Hawaii Pacific District after being asked to do so his crime was failing to Discipline his daughter

37:29

Rachel now listen to the way that sounds to discipline his daughter Rachel a part -time district employee who had officiated at a same -sex wedding five years earlier

37:39

Hours resignation is enough for some critics who filed accusations against him a committee has been formed to investigate the accusations

37:48

Now apparently that was not an insider Told me hey, this is not the full story the way that the whole thing's framed is to make you think these guys are big victims but here's this is a guy named

38:01

Will Campbell, which apparently I guess is the the son -in -law, so I'm told of this gentleman here

38:09

Rick power and And he was the this Just I guess this is what's happening on the ground in the

38:17

Nazarene Church, so Like it's like an onion. There's many layers to this and apparently this factored in but Will Campbell is the older brother of a guy named

38:27

Evan Campbell, and he was an honorary groomsman and the officiant of This particular wedding what particular wedding this particular wedding.

38:35

I almost don't want to show you the video It is so offensive, and we're not gonna play any more of it, but you know you can yeah there you go

38:43

That's enough so you can see what's What's well? I guess none of you could see any of that could you

38:48

I guess I'm showing my own face. Sorry Here's the articles that I'm talking about Here's Thomas J.

38:54

Ord. Here's the book. He wrote why the Church of the Nazarene should have a conversation about being LGBTQ affirming and then you know here's

39:03

D Kelly and then here's Rick power and then the video of The wedding that will

39:10

Campbell who apparently is his son -in -law officiated Is right here, so sorry none of you could see that I was showing my own face, and I didn't realize it so This is what's going on in the

39:20

Church of the Nazarene And this is why they've cracked down some and I would say good for them Good for the

39:25

Church of the Nazarene I'm glad that they're actually upholding their own doctrine now

39:32

See this for what it is. This is not some kind of an advance This is a defense

39:38

This is saying we're not going to bend on this issue and it in my opinion.

39:44

It's taking them probably too long But but they're doing it Okay And I realize every denomination has like the

39:51

PCA to me is so it takes so long in the PCA to do anything and maybe the Nazarenes are like that too, so You know maybe

39:58

I'm Bringing my Baptist sensibilities to this or my non -denominational sensibilities and saying it should be so much shorter than this you know guy

40:06

Running around for years as a pastor in your denomination Publishing things against your doctrinal statement shouldn't that be taken care of fairly quickly well, it's been it's being taken care of and whether Whether sooner or later

40:21

I say good for them And I'm glad for the Nazarene Church that they're taking a stand on at least this issue

40:27

It's a really really good thing. So let's celebrate that Let's thank the Lord for that tonight as you say your nightly prayers say

40:34

Thank you Lord that the Church of the Nazarene isn't like somebody these other denominations They actually held firm to their doctrine under a lot of pressure.

40:43

And so I want to say good on them Now I do have a number of other things that I want to talk about and I am looking at the time

40:49

We've already been going 40 minutes Should I do it or should I save it? What do you guys think because I could we could talk about some stuff tomorrow

40:59

So I will get to some questions and then you can let me know if you think that I should keep going or we Should just do one tomorrow.

41:07

I Am willing to do either so Steve Cruz says I graduated from Liberty University and even back then there were several liberal issues.

41:15

Oh, yeah I mean I saw it when I've done podcasts on it and Somewhat I'll just say

41:22

I've ruffled some feathers inside the school because I've talked about some of the things but I I also know the

41:27

Dynamics there and I just telling you guys it's not just Liberty. It's most places They there's a tendency for some reason to and there's there's exceptions

41:37

But there is a tendency to respond outside pressure more so they don't like it when people talk about them in public settings and and when there's negative things attached to what they're doing and You know if they were if Organizations weren't like that if Liberty University wasn't like that if they were if there wasn't a more of an approach ability

41:57

I would say in The mechanisms of leadership if there was a way that like I really if I would let's say

42:07

I was a president of Liberty University which I'm not and it never will be but I would want some kind of a

42:14

Especially given what happened in 2020 Reporting mechanism like it.

42:19

We're not woke here. We're not social just whatever You know, we're anti CRT statement, which I don't think they do have but I would have a statement

42:27

I would actually put it in the statement of faith somewhere And Then have a mechanism for students to report those things and have it not affect their grade.

42:36

That's what I would do personally speaking because students in these places Do not have much of a voice oftentimes and I can give you if I wanted to names and examples of that where students have they try they go they go through the proper channels and they just don't get anywhere and They're given the runaround.

42:55

And so um, so yeah I mean, I've seen that too and and that seems to be what Organizations tend to respond to more.

43:01

Unfortunately, I hate that. I hate that. That's the case Well, August says he's not traveling the

43:08

Yankee land Well, you're missing out Yankee land has some very beautiful scenery and there's some really rural areas where there's not a lot of Yankees It's just like rocks and deer.

43:15

So Let's see here other questions,

43:21

I'm looking for questions specifically Tim Miller says the homosexual couple is probably up to no good with those kids if I were a pastor in that situation

43:29

Then when I mentioned earlier from the Liberty University assignment I would need to help those kids get away from the abuse and hopefully bring them to justice

43:38

Possibility. Can you can you imagine though? If that was on the question, you notice a homosexual couple and stats say that homosexual couples are more likely to abuse their children

43:47

What do you do as a pastor? Would they ever would they ever you know? It almost makes more sense though to have that question than the one they actually asked though, right?

43:57

Alright referring to the church question Even the presupposition that church services are primarily evangelical opportunities instead of gathering together believers totally bugs me

44:04

You know, I didn't mention that but you have to make a good point that you know, how's it gonna look? Churches for it who cares

44:13

This is for believers believers. We're on the same page. We should be as believers. We have the God's Holy Word It tells us qualifications for ministry so My church has a sign

44:26

Believers meeting in his name, but we have plenty of lost people visiting. That's the way it should be right?

44:32

We want lost people visiting. That's what they need Here here for the

44:39

Crusades did I miss no you didn't all right, I guess I'm gonna do it I guess I'm gonna talk about the Crusades a little bit not

44:45

I'm not gonna go into detail I'm probably gonna do a whole episode with someone who really knows what they're talking about. I've read I did a course in my undergrad.

44:52

So I'm going back now over a decade, but I did a course on Islam and as part of that course, we you know,

45:01

I had to study the Crusades and of course during that time I remember because it was at a secular University I got

45:06

I think Richard Spencer wrote it but the politically incorrect guide to Islam and I know some guys really don't like Richard Spencer, but It was short and it just gave me some facts and I still recommend it to people who are in those situations who don't have a lot of time like yeah, it's not like a super Scholarly secondary source, but it's a good pop resource.

45:29

I suppose to just show you Hey, like the narrative you're told about the Crusades not exactly accurate But we're gonna talk about the we'll talk about the controversy over the

45:37

Crusades just a little bit So do you plan to address the anti -christian nationals crowd slandering Eric Conn as a racist?

45:46

So I haven't seen everything on this. I've seen a little bit. I think K Dub if I think he's still going by that name.

45:55

I Questioned him. I remember he had posted something on Eric Conn Because Eric Conn, I'll just summarize this this doesn't take long

46:03

Eric Conn quoted Aristotle and Aristotle was talking about how multi -ethnic

46:10

Communities tend to be more unstable. That's really what it came down to and K Dub took great offense at this and Started saying that I think the thing

46:20

I took objection to is he said like all racists will go to hell or something along those lines and It seemed that he was applying that to Eric Conn and and I just thought you know

46:31

For agreeing with that statement. He doesn't have the gospel. He's not he's going to hell Like how can you say that like that?

46:36

that's what I'm used to coming from the the woke social justice crowd is they will add things to the gospel and Say that if you don't jump this high and meet our bar even if you have the gospel, you really don't because This is somehow, you know part of it somehow and they finagle ways that to me, you know, they make the gospel somehow

46:56

Multicultural multi -ethnic And you can't say anything against multi -ethnicity because all kinds of people can be saved which has really nothing to do with the kinds of Societies in the temporal world that are set up for the good of people.

47:10

That's a spiritual reality but these categories are conflated and So yeah,

47:16

I would I would say Aristotle is in the main right about the fact that you insert really think about it this way you insert more people who have differences into a

47:26

Situation whether it's a playpen You know, you have too many children and they have different interests and different habits that they formed at their homes about how you play with Toys, you're gonna have some problems so you can go right down to you know,

47:40

I'm trying I have a daughter So I'm thinking in these terms, but you have you know, a little daughter the most basic route the most basic unit all the way up to nations and Empires and you say you have too much diversity.

47:54

It doesn't end up being our strength That's really all he was saying and I would tend to agree with that So yeah,

48:00

I'll defend Eric on that like he wasn't Doing anything in danger of hellfire there as far as I know

48:08

Hi, John, when do you stop talking about liberal ideas to people in the church? Do you plow ahead when it offends?

48:17

Man it depends on a lot of circumstances if you are you the pastor if you're the pastor you never stop

48:24

If you're someone who's in the congregation and you see leadership doing some things that are wrong

48:30

You will probably come to a point of having to leave the church eventually if there's no movements, right if you confront the issue and Nothing happens so Oh Did I say

48:41

Richard Spencer? Someone's correcting me and saying it's Robert Spencer. I must have said Richard Spencer Is it apparently

48:47

Richard Rich is he a neo -nazi Richard Spencer was the alt -right guy right from 2016? I remember because I didn't know what alt -right was and people kept saying alt -right and And eventually

48:59

I think I looked it up and I'm like, oh Richard Spencer. That's who they're talking about So sorry if I I mistakenly said

49:04

Richard Spencer, I meant Robert Spencer Okay in last comment before we will move on I'll make it a mega episode

49:12

Trudell says the point was about specifically democracy as a form of government not even society overall per se

49:19

Okay, I guess the point Eric was making was about democracy. So in a democracy It's not good to have yeah, even more so I guess at that point if you have all these competing interests in a democracy

49:28

Then it becomes the farther apart those competing interests are the harder it is to have unity and actually face commonly shared threats, so All right, so yes, yes, sorry people are writing in about the

49:43

Spencer yes, I meant Robert Spencer, sorry. All right We're gonna keep going. We'll just do it.

49:48

The computer is still working. Thank God. So Let's Start, where do

49:55

I want to start? Let's let's talk about abortion a little bit the abortion debate abortion abolitionism and all that No, you know what before I do this let me play for you some clips

50:06

Just so you know kind of what the debates over Donald Trump put out a post This was on truth social and he basically just said like my administration is going to be good for women's reproductive rights, which was a terrible thing in my opinion to say because You're not

50:22

I Think in his mind, he's probably doing something strategic He's trying to woo people who are concerned about anti -abortion to the

50:29

Republican Party to vote because let's face it. It's It's looking it's looking dismal right now a few weeks ago

50:37

It looks pretty good like the chances and it's not looking the same. So I think he probably thought of it in that way, but saying that also

50:46

Signals to your pro -life constituency that you don't really care about them because anytime we hear the term

50:53

Women's reproductive rights. We're thinking this is abortion. That's when we hear it.

50:58

That's when we see it Well, here's what Donald Trump had to say about his comments And for some reason

51:11

I don't have any sounds So he says he's gonna be good for reproductive rights the IVF is very strong I mean, we're leaders in it and I think

51:22

Okay, I made a mistake

51:31

I didn't have my headphones plugged in so I started interpreting it for you while he was talking I guess you could hear what he was saying.

51:36

He's saying in case I interrupted him my apologies that You know that what he meant is that we're very strong on IVF and we're gonna leave abortion to the states and that means

51:47

I'm strong on reproductive rights, so essentially he thinks federalism is the solution to the abortion question at least for now and He wants

51:57

IVF to be available So yes, thank you a verse.

52:03

You do have sound I didn't have sound so hey DC Harris you should oh Do I have it? I don't have it

52:09

You're a Harris so I'm a Harris too and I will show it in the next podcast Lord willing I have a shirt that says

52:15

Harris is against Harris. It's a great shirt So anyway, Trump Says this is what

52:20

I mean by it so he's not saying I'm gonna be like I'm going to be pro -choice and like overturn what

52:27

I just did with Appointing judges who overturn Roe v. Wade. He's not saying I want a national law to codify abortion

52:36

Essentially, he's not really gonna touch much policy -wise this I don't think this this is all rhetoric to be honest with you I don't think actually any of this means

52:43

Anything policy -wise yet. I haven't seen any and I've asked this on on X for people who are Upset about these comments and I understand why they would be but like where's the policy prescription?

52:53

We caught the Harris administration has their policies written and ready to go. Where's the Trump administration's policy?

52:59

That's pushing the needle in a more pro -choice pro -abortion direction I don't see it. And so his comment was just It was like it was a politician trying to appeal to a constituency.

53:10

That's all it was JD Vance Those important issues for the conservative movement is the right to life, right?

53:17

If you're not willing to stand up for unborn babies in this country Then what else are you gonna cut tail and run on when the going gets tough?

53:26

Okay, so people are Sharing this clip from to I think it's two years ago and JD Vance was running for Senate and look how conservative he was

53:33

What happened? Maybe was four years ago. I can't remember but look he was he was really solidly pro -life

53:39

And then they see this clip of him big issue. It was talked about at the Democratic National Convention It's being talked about on the campaign trail abortion

53:48

Democrats made the case this week and beyond this week that Donald Trump if elected will impose a federal ban on abortion

53:55

If he wins now Donald Trump says he won't but can you commit senator sitting right here with me today?

54:03

That if you and Donald Trump are elected that you will not impose a federal ban on abortion I can absolutely commit that Kristen and Donald Trump has been as clear about that as possible

54:12

I think it's important to step back and say What does Donald Trump actually said on the abortion question and how is it different from what

54:18

Kamala Harris and the Democrats have said? Donald Trump wants to end this culture war over this particular topic of Kamala Excuse me,

54:25

California wants to have a different abortion policy from Ohio Then Ohio has to respect California and California has to respect

54:31

Ohio Donald Trump's view is that we want the individual states and their individual cultures and their unique political sensibilities to make these decisions because we don't want to have a non -stop federal

54:43

Conflict over this issue. The federal government ought to be focused on getting food prices down getting housing prices down issues

54:49

Of course where Kamala Harris has been a total disaster. So I think Donald Trump is right We want the federal government to focus on these big economic and immigration questions.

54:57

Let the states figure out their own abortion policy Let me just follow up with you a little bit on that point because I've been talking to Republicans including

55:05

Senator Lindsey Graham just last week who've made it very clear that if Donald Trump is elected if you are elected

55:11

They will continue to press this point senator Graham said to me I'm going to keep saying that there should be a federal ban if such a piece of legislation

55:21

Landed on Donald Trump's desk. Would he veto it? I think it'd be very clear. He would not support it I mean, yeah,

55:27

I mean if you're not supporting it as the president United States you fundamentally have veto a federal abortion ban

55:32

I think he would he said that explicitly that he would and Explicitly he would you

55:38

Lindsey Graham Kristen? I would be surprised me again I need to see the context on what Lindsey Graham said because Lindsey Graham himself has not advocated a federal abortion ban

55:48

Lindsey Graham has added a Federal minimum standard now to be clear that is not

55:53

Donald Trump's view Donald Trump disagrees with Lindsey Graham on this But no Republican at least no Republican within with any reasonable power is saying that we should have a complete national abortion ban

56:03

I haven't heard that from any of my colleagues and to be clear Donald Trump I think has staked his position and made it very explicit

56:10

He wants this to be a state decision states are gonna make this determination themselves. All right Okay, I wanted you to hear the whole context of that because the clip is normally cut off But he goes on to say hey look

56:21

Lindsey Graham doesn't even want a federal abortion ban and no one in any Position of power wants a total federal abortion ban and I'm gonna tell you something.

56:29

I think he's probably right I think he's probably right on that. I don't like it any more than you do as Especially the earlier comments about you know him thinking this is the right approach, but I think to win the election

56:42

They it's kind of like the situation That the Democrats were in when they when

56:47

Obama was elected I think in some ways Where Obama had to signal all this like pro -traditional marriage stuff

56:54

But then when he got in what did he effectively do with the DOJ? They weren't

57:00

Defending any anything traditional they they they did everything they could to foil efforts to defend traditional marriage

57:07

And I think it may be some something similar with the Trump administration. Why do I say that? well because when someone like JD Vance who's pro -life that That word that term has a bit of a broad range it applies to people who are for regulations on abortion and Strict regulations.

57:28

It also applies to people though who are you know want total bans and all of that?

57:34

This is this is something that has united a group of people against Roe v.

57:39

Wade for years And that was I think the common enemy that was and now that Roe v.

57:45

Wade is kind of out of the way and this Is a state issue more than anything else. The divisions are

57:51

I'm not saying there weren't divisions before but the divisions are becoming more pronounced over what people actually do want on this

57:57

Subject whether they want to regulate it totally ban it If they want to regulate it, how do they want to regulate it at what level?

58:06

so when when you have the vice presidential candidate saying that he is pro -life and The Democrats are not and they're radical and you can't trust them to protect life

58:16

I think I hear when I hear that I and at least I what I want to hear is From conception.

58:22

I don't know if that's actually true though, especially given what he said about abortion pills He seems to have a view that I don't know.

58:30

I don't know because he hasn't said it publicly But he may not be a conception guy. He may think it's a heartbeat or something now the question

58:39

Another question the political question is what does this mean policy wise? What does this mean?

58:44

It has anything actually changed policy wise and I would say I don't think so in fact before I started this

58:50

I was reading the Republican National Convention statement the platform from 2016

58:58

And if you remember that was the platform also in 2020 because they didn't have a platform So the 2016 platform if you read it, it has certain abortion regulations, but it does not call for a ban on federal abortion even in that document and If you look at the

59:14

Republican Party, I would encourage you go read the Republican Party platforms from 2016 2012 2008

59:19

They all assume this This Roe v.

59:26

Wade status quo that they're reacting to that's not there anymore. And so pro -life organizations anti -abortion organizations, and this would include the abolitionist organizations and stuff this was something

59:39

I don't think any of them expected and now We have a situation.

59:45

Let me just show you what the situation is According to stats at least if you believe those I guess some people are questioning every poll right now which

59:51

I understand because of what they say about Trump, but If you look at some of these stats someone posted this conjunction 77 posted this on X and it shows the different Views over time

01:00:11

Evangelicalism mainline denominations black Protestants Catholic other faiths and no religion at all and we're

01:00:19

Basically if they think it should if a woman should be able to obtain a legal abortion if he if she wants one for any

01:00:25

Reason, okay This is like unlimited abortion radical stuff. Okay, where are people at?

01:00:31

Well, it looks like it's Evangelicals it's like that. That's pretty crazy to me that it says it's almost like 30 %

01:00:37

Catholics. It's like Like 50 % other faiths it's way over no religion at all is the highest.

01:00:44

I mean that's approaching You know, we're at like 75 76 percent.

01:00:49

It looks like and then Amazingly for black Protestants who went it looks like in 1980

01:00:56

From not being very supportive of this, you know around the 25 percent mark

01:01:01

I suppose they were kind of in a similar spot. It looks like to where evangelicals were they are very supportive now

01:01:08

See it looks like around 65 percent according to these graphs so This the direction that all these graphs are going in is up, you know so much for the whole idea

01:01:18

We're the pro -life generation. I keep hearing that like we're people are becoming more pro -life. But look at what these graphs are saying

01:01:25

People are I don't think that's the case. Here's another here's Pew Research and They had oh,

01:01:33

I don't know what I wanted to show you from this now. I hope I had the right thing up Let's see, it's a majority maybe this is a majority of the u .s

01:01:40

Public disapproves of the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade about six in ten is all adults disapprove of the court's decision

01:01:49

Wow Including 43 percent who strongly disapprove These are the conditions that Trump and Vance are trying to win in They're trying to win in a country that has chosen

01:02:02

Sexual anarchy that has chosen perversion not everyone not every Bible Belt area not every rural area, but enough people that it's the majority and I'm sure that their

01:02:14

Advisors are telling them look if you Like you you have to on this issue.

01:02:20

You probably just have to play defense You can't push it any farther and not that Trump has ever been a huge pro -life guy he's done more for any for pro -life people than any other president,

01:02:29

I guess in my lifetime, but But he's never that's never been like his thing and you know Even his

01:02:35

I didn't want to vote for him in 2016 partially because I thought hey the the Republican Party is going to be corrupted by his

01:02:42

His stance on homosexuality and abortion and all and we were downstream from that. We're so far downstream from that at this point

01:02:48

Now I'm like man if he doesn't win the election We don't have like we may even be past this point.

01:02:54

We don't have another election They're gonna have the Democrats will have solid Majorities Indefinitely from illegal migrants.

01:03:02

I remember I was born in California. I still have a lot of family there I saw what happened to that state you went from Reagan to Republicans will never win anything because of this and Yeah, so like that that's what

01:03:14

I'm looking at. Is that gonna happen nationwide over the whole country? so it's a different set of conditions that I think we're in in some ways than we were in in 2016, but But yeah,

01:03:26

I think that that's these are the realities I think they are trying to probably deal with and And so this let's see, which one did

01:03:33

I want to go for? So there's two things I was gonna point out because I've talked about this some on X But the first thing we'll just talk about the abortion abolitionists for a moment

01:03:42

Then I couldn't find it Ben Crenshaw wrote a great article. Maybe it was a long Twitter post where he basically says look

01:03:50

At least in this election sitting out the election is not really a political decision And he makes the point that it is a decision for from conscience and that may be perfectly respectable

01:04:00

But don't fool yourself into thinking this is a meaningful political decision There one person's going to win it is either going to be

01:04:08

Kamala Harris or it's going to be Donald Trump one or the other and I do think there there are some guys who are very ardently anti -abortion who see how high the stakes are that they will never be able to even work on the state level if Kamala Harris gets in if the

01:04:23

Democrats have four more years and they're able to secure majorities indefinitely to continue winning

01:04:29

National elections continue putting pro -choice pro -abortion candidates in you can say goodbye to even making progress on the state level

01:04:36

Which is something under Trump that you can actually do you can make progress on the state level? so There's a guy who's running.

01:04:43

I'm gonna find out his name in a moment, but he's running for President Under the

01:04:49

Constitution Party and here's what he had to say this by the way This guy found an Operation Rescue and here's what he had to say

01:04:55

I'm Randall Terry Constitution Party candidate for president and I'm on the ballot this November in 12 states and it won't hurt

01:05:03

Trump Because I'm not running to win. I'm running to cause Kamala to lose with targeted campaign ads

01:05:10

Here's the issue Social media platforms don't have to run our campaign ads. Okay, he goes on to basically say look and Randall Terry, of course

01:05:19

That was his name. Okay, so he's saying I can run these ads because the networks are required in many of these swing states on on news channels social media people aren't gonna take our stuff, but the news organizations have to and I'm gonna target

01:05:33

Democrats and basically show them how radical Kamala Harris is and this is a guy who's ardently anti -abortion and So this is one and I don't know if he calls himself an abolitionist

01:05:44

I don't know what terms he used for what he believes but this is one I think wing if you want to call it that of the abolitionists and so I Describe them here and I've just noticed this online

01:05:57

There's two kinds of anti -abortionists who call themselves abolitionists The first type is pragmatic frustrated with the pro -life establishment views abortion as a grave evil

01:06:05

Holds mothers accountable and seeks to even end it through existing political channels without exceptions for rape or incest

01:06:11

I would assume that Randall Terry's probably in that camp if he calls himself that there's a second type of ideologically driven

01:06:19

Abolitionists who see the pro -life establishment is worse than the left Insist on immediate action regardless of political feasibility and rejects any compromise

01:06:27

They withhold support from non aligned anti -abortion candidates vilify differing strategies and prioritize the issue above all else

01:06:34

Even if it means accelerating the country's demise I'm not going to give you examples

01:06:40

I've seen a number of examples though on X this week from people saying Basically if this causes

01:06:45

Trump to lose and we withhold our vote and so be it the country deserves judgment. Oh, well some even seen seeming almost like they want that and I'm just gonna tell you as a husband and father.

01:07:00

I do not want that. I Understand reality I understand that we are already under judgment and we may and we probably will incur much more judgment

01:07:09

But it's not something I want. It's not something I'm gonna fight as hard as I can to uphold moral standards prevent judgment

01:07:20

Give an opportunity and it's not just on the abortion issue but on the abortion issue give an opportunity for anti -abortion activists and Lawmakers to work on the state level to get this

01:07:33

Hope you know, I mean not just limited. The goal is to ban it, you know, even if it's in all 50 places

01:07:40

You know one by one get this thing banned but I Can I understand

01:07:46

I think why the Trump administration would be taking the approach they're taking one of the things Kamala Harris is

01:07:51

Promising to do is to sign an abortion law that would basically codify Roe v Wade in law

01:07:57

Which the Supreme Court's what are they gonna do about that? I mean, it's gonna make it much more difficult if that ever happens.

01:08:02

That's not something you have to worry about under Trump He's not he's I think as liberal as he's been on this issue

01:08:09

The most liberal he's been is invoking federalism and just saying I want pre Roe conditions basically

01:08:15

Which is what that is before Roe v. Wade you had different states with different laws on this topic

01:08:21

I'm not I'm not saying that's a preferable arrangement But that that is the arrangement we had under the

01:08:26

Constitution basically And I'll just quickly say this maybe I should do a whole episode at some point but there are people who are

01:08:33

Saying a lot of things that just are civically as far as civics are concerned I don't think accurate about this like hey, it's a it's a crime to murder, right?

01:08:41

It is a crime and this is actually more of a recent thing By the way, it's a federal crime to murder under certain circumstances

01:08:49

I should say murders become a federal issue under certain circumstances when it involves things like drug smuggling across state lines so it's the interstate commerce clause that that makes it a federal issue in that kind of a case or Unfortunately things like hate crimes that becomes a federal issue because the federal laws on that now you could try to extend that to the unborn

01:09:12

But you're extending something you could fight for that in theory I don't think you're gonna get far but if you fought for that in theory

01:09:19

You would be getting what you would end up doing is extending something that probably should have never been extended

01:09:25

Because we shouldn't really have hate crimes legislation I say though as long as we have if we're gonna have it we should use it, right?

01:09:31

So like I agree with that kind of logic, but I don't think I think a better option is like we shouldn't have that It's kind of like the whole public school debate like we shouldn't really have public schools that have federal funding

01:09:41

But as long as we're gonna have them, let's make sure that they're not You know pumping evil things into our children's minds or the minds of the children next door, you know, so So it's not ideal and then you know

01:09:54

The other thing is that the 14th Amendment arguments which I think if you just look at the historical context

01:09:59

The way the 14th Amendment was passed what it was passed to address It's not about this issue and you would have to do some and there are smart lawyers who want to do some maneuvering to make it about this issue and If you at least are honest about it and say like we're we're not gonna follow original intent on this

01:10:18

We really are just going to try to use this to wield power and we're you know The left does this with the 14th

01:10:24

Amendment? We're gonna try to do it at least just be honest about what you're doing That's what I would say These things are not as simple

01:10:33

I think is some Anti -abortion folks online want to make them and politically like I just showed you the situation is

01:10:40

Pretty dismal. So you're the best option. This is my this is the white pill. I suppose the best option we have right now

01:10:47

To forward a pro -life cause is to vote for Donald Trump Because if he loses then you you are going to probably get if not in this next term

01:10:58

When they have permanent majorities because of illegal aliens coming into that kind of thing You will eventually get the abortion law that codifies it nationally

01:11:06

Okay, so you want Trump to win and you all if you want to make it illegal and you also want to put resources at The state level you want to look at red states like Oklahoma like Idaho Places where you already have a lot of Republicans and at least a voter base even if the

01:11:23

Republican establishment is corrupt you have a voter base that really does want this and If you can locate those areas and start

01:11:32

Electing start running Christian candidates who like a dusty Deavers get more dusty Deavers into the state

01:11:40

Senate or representative body. That's the way that you're going to start knocking this stuff down and it's gonna be one by one by one, but that's how you and I guess that is a

01:11:52

Even I just thought about this like abolitionists can totally get on board with that. That's what they are doing

01:11:57

I guess they're trying to do that on the state level but that is kind of an incremental approach in a way right because you're one by one by one knocking these things down trying to build momentum and you know, that's the kind of thing that Happened to when we saw different conditions, but we saw this with the same -sex marriage issue

01:12:15

Remember it initially started it was courts doing it primarily But it was state by state by state and they just kept building

01:12:21

Momentum off of these political victories or court victories they would have in these states which eventually turned into political victories

01:12:27

Which eventually turned international and I would say take a page out of their playbook on that That's probably how it's gonna work more than anything else.

01:12:35

So that's my opinion on this. I think that for the sake of my my my neighbors who are my pagan neighbors who want to kill their children are doing evil in the sight of the

01:12:49

Lord, but They're not killing my child and I with my vote

01:12:54

I need to steward it the best of my ability for my people my family my child and on this issue of Abortion, I need to ensure that the party of death that is going to codify abortion at a national level

01:13:10

Does not win and get what they want indefinitely for the future. So this is political reality.

01:13:16

This is political reality I think we have to deal with if someone out there wants to say no my conscience says I can't do that.

01:13:21

I'm Go with your conscience. I would try to persuade you to argue your conscience into being okay with a

01:13:29

Donald Trump victory over a Kamala Harris victory, but if your conscience is really screaming at you just don't do that But I do not

01:13:38

I just don't fool yourself into thinking. This is like a profound political statement. I don't think it is

01:13:44

And if it was successful, it would mean Kamala Harris. So that's where I'm at with this

01:13:50

Yeah, Joel someone says Joel Webb and had a similar argument Yeah, probably. I think

01:13:55

Joel and I are probably pretty close on this. I had Joel on a while back with Some other

01:14:00

I had Andrew Isker and I also had Pastor Kerry Gordon and Pastor Kerry Gordon is very against Trump and so he he makes the point that basically we should withhold our vote and and Joel made the point on that particular show that we should not so So that that's where I'm coming down on it, that's how

01:14:22

I'm thinking about it. I don't think that We live in a perfect world and a lot of the decisions we make our prudential decisions we're looking at reality and we're trying to navigate it and To the best of our ability with the power that we have which unfortunately for anti -abortionists.

01:14:42

We don't have a whole lot We're part of a coalition. We have a seat at the table in the Trump administration

01:14:47

We have no no seat with Kamala Harris, but But with with the little power we do have how do we make gains?

01:14:54

That's the question. All right, so that said I and I'm willing to take pushback if anyone has questions about this

01:15:10

Truth seeker asks if white men are excluded from all advertising even even among Christian advertisers You must be looking back at something

01:15:16

I showed earlier. I don't know It seems that way doesn't it does seem that way

01:15:23

Okay, let's Where where are we going next? We got other stuff to talk about here. Oh, all right.

01:15:29

I'll mention this briefly We're not leaving the abortion thing. I was just gonna mention this that the pro -life

01:15:35

Lobby has been telling us. We're the pro -life generation since I can remember They've also been saying they've been acting like it's inevitable because slavery

01:15:47

Was overturned Chattel slavery was done away with so they so it's inevitable that Abortion is like the same issue or so similar.

01:15:55

It's going to be overturned. That's the logic and And it's and and so they'll say like it's very racist, right?

01:16:01

like playing hair is very racist abortions very racist and trying to Convince people to join them as if that's a point and I'm telling you

01:16:08

I've said this forever That is not a point in your corner. It's it's not what you think The left doesn't hear that and think oh my goodness it is racist

01:16:15

I guess I'll rethink my position on abortion doesn't work for them. It's it's you're making actually

01:16:22

Like they would say the exact opposite to you using the same stats. They would say that there you would say there's

01:16:29

You know more access in these urban areas where minorities live for abortion and that means it's racist.

01:16:36

They want to kill babies that are of different colors and They'll come back and say there's not enough access in these urban areas

01:16:44

Therefore it's racist because they by definition you're coming. You're starting from different places They think abortion access is health care and you need health care access that is proportionate to the populations that live in the country

01:17:00

So minorities need access and if they you know, there should be more of access to abortion in urban areas, right?

01:17:06

That's what they would say So this is just my my whole thing I Said look the idea that abortion is racism because a disproportionate amount of blacks and Latino people kill their children at higher rates

01:17:16

Then whites only works if you think disparities equal racism It seems to me that anti -abortion organizations have infiltrated themselves with CRT consistent logic for years

01:17:25

So obviously you could talk about like Margaret Sanger and all of I understand all that But if you if the logic you're using which is what

01:17:31

I often hear is like look at the disproportionate this or that Then you know that doesn't by definition mean racism and what you're doing is

01:17:39

Your whatever racism is what you're doing though is you're infiltrating yourselves you're priming your people to accept left -wing ideas because you're hinging the morality of abortion of abortion on a

01:17:53

Disparity you're not just saying it's murder. It's wrong. We should stop you're saying no, it's wrong because it affects this demographic differently than this

01:18:04

So many people reacted and you know the predictable stuff a lot of it just you know

01:18:09

You know, it is racist and you know, the programming is very strong. I understand And it's it's because Margo Margaret Sanger this and that like and I get that Here's what

01:18:18

I said, though I said many of the reactions to this post are understandable given the years this narrative has been hammered There are three things.

01:18:24

I want people to consider though first Sanger had a problem with unfit whites, too Why is it that never mentioned and I actually posted some examples of this where she talks about this

01:18:34

Second Latinos have higher abortion rates than whites Are we to assume they are also victims of a modern anti -minority and racist

01:18:42

Planned Parenthood in other words? Margaret Sanger wasn't talking about Latinos right Margaret. We're talking a hundred years ago

01:18:49

Latinos have been more, you know in large groups a recent Larger demographic that takes advantage of this particular and evil service so What does that mean?

01:19:01

Is it Planned Parenthood? They're using the service more is that because Planned Parenthood is targeting them because they're white supremacist.

01:19:07

That doesn't really seem to make sense Third if the black community by and large welcomes abortion 90 % of black self -professing

01:19:14

Christians allegedly vote Democrat even a singer wanted to kill their children through the Negro Project What's keeping them supported today?

01:19:20

And I just showed you for black Christians. It's not much better You know, it's like what 80 % of like black

01:19:25

Christians something. What did I say? I have to go back to the stat here Looks like okay. So not not that like 65 %

01:19:32

So and that's the ones who call themselves Christians, right? So like So, yeah as I understand

01:19:39

I guess I guess so it was like what is it 90 % of black self -processing Christians I guess that's Christians, too. So you have a gap there of 25 % who are

01:19:48

I guess Christians who are pro -life but still vote Democrat, I guess I Don't get it.

01:19:54

But uh, that's what you got So even if singer wanted to kill their children through the Negro Project what's keeping them supportive today?

01:20:01

This is a question that I'd like to see answered No one's putting a gun to anyone's head

01:20:07

Well, the government's not doing this and saying go get an abortion There might be pimps and people who do these kinds of things, but this isn't like on the main

01:20:15

That's not what's driving these numbers up among these communities At some point these disparities cannot be attributed to Sanger's purposes from a century ago

01:20:23

Why not just say abortion is murder murder is evil We don't need to pigeonhole it into being racist or make it worse

01:20:29

That sets us up to adopt all kinds of issues under the anti -abortion banner if you're looking for a comparison

01:20:35

Compare it to holiday more Holocaust terrorist attacks or some other historical event that by definition is murder

01:20:42

And I would say the same thing now I think that's what you have to do and we've infiltrated ourselves by dumbing this down by comparing it to these other

01:20:51

Matters and when we do that when we hinge our moral justification on these other matters, then we

01:20:58

I think we We give people incentive to go left.

01:21:04

It's an off -ramp I think or it can potentially be used as an off -ramp from the anti -abortion movement

01:21:11

Because once they buy into the disparities or the problem the left has about 10 issues They want to show you are the problem and and there's other ways of reading this too by the way

01:21:19

Like if disproportionate amount of black people or Latino people are taking advantage of abortion services

01:21:25

Well, maybe and if abortions evil, I mean the syllogism I guess holds Maybe there's a disproportionate amount of people in those communities who are evil now.

01:21:34

No one wants to say that right? No one in the pro -life community would ever they would be no it's all

01:21:39

Margaret Sanger from a century ago who's forcing them into this or something like it's a structural thing that That was created and I'm not gonna deny that Urban areas with broken -down families and the circumstances they live in is going to incentivize more of this kind of activity, especially with the sexually loose morals and all these things but You have to look at this as ultimately something that people are choosing to do

01:22:04

Their mothers are choosing to go in there and having their have their babies killed and they do know better deep down There there is a

01:22:10

Romans one component to this and they're suppressing the truth. I Guess that's all

01:22:17

I have to say about that. I Just I'm baffled by the the fact that we keep doing this.

01:22:23

Let's just be aggressive about it. This is absolute murder We should be against it period

01:22:30

We're we don't we think Donald Trump is not hard enough on it But we will support him to have in order to have the latitude to keep working on this issue

01:22:38

Because we know we won't have that latitude in a Democrat administration All right.

01:22:46

Oh I was gonna show you I get these things all the time on X but I was just gonna show you this is Aurora, Colorado I wasn't

01:22:53

I was there not too long ago and This is a trashed absolutely trash

01:22:58

Walmart parking lot I think the guys who make this video almost get run over and you know, basically what's going on is

01:23:05

There's there's trafficking going on. There's this it talks about in this post that there is a

01:23:12

Venice whaling gang of illegal migrants who have taken control of an apartment complex and Now they're trying to I guess the the town or the city of Aurora Wants to take this complex down and they're citing code violations, but the people there including

01:23:30

City Councilman Danielle Drinsky are saying wait a minute. Like come on. We know what's going on.

01:23:36

This started with a gang takeover and This is happening in towns and towns where this should never have happened places

01:23:43

You should never have seen this kind of thing It's happening and I want to in the context of the abortion discussion

01:23:50

I want to also just stimulate your minds to think about other social issues that are also going on here

01:23:55

There's a lot of things happening at the same time. And yes, there's connections between them But if this kind of thing can happen in Aurora, Colorado, it can happen in your community

01:24:05

I was just I was in Boise earlier this year if they can import illegal migrants deep into the heart of Idaho they can do it where you are if they can go into the rural areas of Wisconsin and Dump illegal migrants.

01:24:17

They can do it where you live. Don't think that that's not going to happen Don't think that this isn't somehow by design in some way

01:24:26

It's a hard trip to go from Asia to go from South America all the way up to Idaho to places like New York to places like Illinois, it's a very it's a long trip.

01:24:40

There's a lot of dangers along the way and you need resources to do it and To happen and to overnight have thousands of people dumped in these areas some of whom are very bad people

01:24:53

And for there to be a way for them to eat get there whether they get there on their own or they're transported through some kind of a government

01:25:00

Transportation service they are they are funded to do this. They're funded to live here. You can't just live it's expensive

01:25:06

I don't know if you felt that in your own homes. It's kind of expensive. I I've heard the same thing all over the country

01:25:12

You know, they're being paid, you know $2 ,000 a month they're being paid twenty eight hundred dollars a month.

01:25:19

They're being paid whatever they're they're giving they're being given driver's license. They're being given Special exceptions they're being

01:25:27

Set up with jobs people ready to set them up with jobs and being ubers or Lyft drivers

01:25:33

They're you know, all these resources this network of resources is waiting for them when they come into this country That is not a country that serves its people

01:25:42

That is not a country that protects its people that is a country that undermines its people that is a country that will die and is dying as an empire really that is dying and That's also something to consider in this election

01:25:58

If your pagan neighbors have an abortion, let's say you live in the Bible Belt, it's not even your pagan neighbors

01:26:03

It's it's people that you don't have share much in common with let's say from the big city where you live

01:26:09

It doesn't happen much. But but boy you're the next town over was swamped by illegal migrants

01:26:16

What are you gonna do in this election for the sake of your children? You got to think through those things as well

01:26:23

Okay, let's talk about It just a few minor things we got to land the plane because we're almost an hour and a half in but This is just I just wanted to point this out.

01:26:33

David French said hey It's fascinating about the angry reaction to a tweet that he had And the tweet basically said that good people will vote for Harris good people will vote for Trump that kind of thing

01:26:43

And he says fascinating all the anger Over that tweet. I think voting for Trump is a serious mistake, but that doesn't make you a bad person

01:26:51

Or mean you're going to hell Okay, now Besides the fact that David French wrote an article by the saying you can't make a

01:26:59

Christian case for Trump anymore I just I decided to pull some of these things

01:27:05

David French 2021 the evidence that January 6 was a Christian insurrection just grows and grows and grows

01:27:10

Combating this perversion of the gospel has to be a top priority. It's not just a heresy

01:27:16

It's an active threat to the peace and security of the nation Yeah, January 6 because there was a guy trying to dedicate the country to Jesus In the

01:27:24

I guess the Senate chamber it's a perversion of the gospel Here's David French 2023 one of the worst aspects of the new right is it's no apologies ethos.

01:27:35

That's not just on Christian. It's anti -christian fundamentally Well, I don't think he

01:27:43

He may understand it and be a bad actor or he just may not understand what what he saw I know what he's talking about It's basically like we're not going to set the left up or the institutions on the left as legitimate authorities to assess

01:27:54

To make moral determinations, so we don't owe them an apology. That's really what that is David French says

01:28:01

Tucker's daily example of demonstrated that honesty and grace Indispensable qualities in every sphere of life have no place in the politics of the new religious right a rightful of religious zeal

01:28:09

But lacking in fundamental Christian virtues, okay, so that Tucker's a pretty mainstream guy in their conservative, right?

01:28:15

So, yeah, I mean that you'll I guess the right lacks Christian, you know, it's not Christian I mean, that's another way or they lack

01:28:21

Christian virtues Christians believe in God's judgment and while we are grateful to God's merciful We should tremble with knowledge that he's also just and his justice can be terrible indeed my thoughts on the evil revealed in the

01:28:30

SBC And beyond and he's talking about the executive committee of the SBC not taking me too. Seriously enough

01:28:36

It's the same David French, you know, like David French. Come on You really mean us for us to believe now that voting for Trump is

01:28:44

It's a mistake, but it doesn't make you a bad person to vote for Trump You the people surrounding

01:28:50

Trump the movement surrounding Trump You you have signaled that they are bad people and and I could have pulled more examples

01:28:58

You know, here's what we get the dispatch. There is no remaining Christian case for Trump. That was what I was referencing earlier

01:29:06

Okay, let's okay one more thing before the Crusades Are we doing the Crusades? I guess I don't have that up.

01:29:11

We'll talk about it though You're a Becca homeschool history book. What do you notice? Okay, I posted this earlier today got a lot of traction history of the

01:29:21

United States and I don't know what fifth edition. I don't what grade this is. I did a

01:29:26

Becca I'm gonna talk about that in a minute, but it has the pilgrims. It has Abraham Lincoln It has an immigrant at Ellis Island.

01:29:32

It has Martin Luther King jr. And then it has a guy in space and That's all it's got we the people, you know, and then that's it.

01:29:40

That's the There's your cartoon, you know your your quick image of the history of the

01:29:46

United States So what's the problem with this? Some people were very confused other people got it right away and I think what's going on here is this is something that I've talked about on the podcast before but there really are two basic frameworks for retelling the history of the country one is

01:30:06

The sacrificial narrative that we got to the point we are with the blessings we have because people sacrificed

01:30:13

Suffered deprivations overcame obstacles. There was hardship. There was war there was famine there was all kinds of things but here we are and we can take courage and we can take inspiration from those people and Then there's and there were heroes among them.

01:30:27

By the way, they're heroes. We can erect statues to them there's another narrative that says actually it's kind of a crummy place and The if there's anything positive to be said it's the people who have stood against the the majority stood against the status quo made it more equal made it a more equal place and and diversified us and given the government more authority to go into local and state areas to make them more equal and I think that if you're gonna look at this

01:31:03

This image ask the question, which one does this seem to be more? Like if you're gonna pick a narrative what narrative you think is being communicated here and it's obvious It's the more emancipation narrative.

01:31:15

It's the emancipation narrative more than it is the sacrificial narrative. So the and I can just tell from the

01:31:23

The snippets and these aren't all like this is part of our history, but they're choosing which parts are

01:31:29

Significant which parts are important which parts even inspire a patriotism So you have

01:31:35

I guess pilgrims, but you know again starting the starting points not 1607 it's 1620 and eventually what's gets absorbed into the

01:31:44

Puritan society the city on a hill the you know, this is the beginning of that whole narrative of America's gonna be this this shining example this and eventually that turning into equality being the motivation and the reason for that then you have

01:32:01

Abraham Lincoln, so expanding the Government expanding the national or the general government to be able to accomplish this kind of equality you have the immigrants who diversify the country and Come in and at Ellis Island and you know, this is these are all these positive

01:32:17

American stories, right? they have MLK giving his I have a dream speech and With the

01:32:22

March on Washington, so the civil rights movement and then space and our technology

01:32:27

I guess so Some people notice this and caught on right away to what I was noticing and there was a lot of discussion in this

01:32:36

Thread because there are certain people saying like yeah, you know, you should read the book like yeah It's totally what you're saying

01:32:42

John and other people saying there's no problem with the book Well, I haven't read this one. But when I was a young lad, we did use a

01:32:49

Becca history We did use Bob Jones history. I remember a Becca history being worse and this was going back 25 years ago 20 25 years ago.

01:32:59

It wasn't it was very Proposition nation driven.

01:33:07

I just remember that I remember that from when I was young Bob Jones was a bit better as I recall

01:33:13

Than a Becca. I'm not trashing a Becca. I'm not saying you can't use a Becca I'm just saying be aware of that. That's that's what you get with a lot of homeschool textbooks

01:33:20

I think a lot of people need to be aware because they think when they leave public school Because the public schools are absolutely insane that they're you know

01:33:28

This is a much more sane place and it probably is But it doesn't mean that you're always totally out of the woods.

01:33:34

You just you got to be vigilant It might mean you have to educate yourself and read some yourself. Some people were recommending the

01:33:41

Tuttle twins I don't know enough about the Tuttle twins. I don't have kids of this age So I'm not looking into curriculums, but maybe look into the

01:33:49

Tuttle twins I Don't know about classical conversations. I did a whole thing on that earlier this year

01:33:55

So, I don't know if I want to recommend them, but some people were saying they're better And we may be looking at a good better best kind of thing

01:34:00

This is one of the reasons I wanted the 1607 project to be a curriculum too and that can still happen if we have the

01:34:06

Resources for it. We just don't but we need resources I would say look at Tom Woods Liberty classroom

01:34:13

Look at Brian McClanahan's McClanahan Academy these are both resources for homeschoolers that you can use to teach history and They're gonna be a great deal better than a

01:34:22

Becca in my opinion and they're going to they're gonna talk about all these events Obviously and all these people but these aren't gonna all be just the shining examples of what it means to be an

01:34:32

American They're gonna talk about other Examples from history as well and someone did ask me they said

01:34:39

John what would you do and I haven't really thought about it What would you do if you only had let's see five different slots.

01:34:44

Well, I'd probably show 1607 since that's the headwaters and and The settlers there

01:34:51

John Smith, maybe and then I probably have something from the founding era. That's just skipped over here So I probably have

01:34:57

George Washington Since he represents the founding era more than anyone else in my mind And then after that,

01:35:04

I would probably I don't know Probably something

01:35:09

I mean the Civil War is I think a big big event in American history So is the exploration out west so I probably put something

01:35:16

Civil War related But it would be like a brother against brother type of Photo, I guess

01:35:22

I'm spitball and I might I have reserved the right to amend this I'm making it up on the spot. And then

01:35:27

I might put something about the exploration out west and then finally I'm trying to think if I would do something

01:35:36

World War two related or You know, I the last one I might keep actually, I don't know, you know man on the moon

01:35:44

I don't know. I'd have to think about that last one, you know something from this 20th century. That's very significant It might be

01:35:50

World War two. That might be the significant event but That's what

01:35:56

I would do probably I would see those events as the Events of more importance than some of these other ones.

01:36:02

I don't know Although the civil rights movement has affected us in many ways mostly negative probably so But but if you're trying to do the whole like this is super patriotic

01:36:10

America We the people then I'm probably not gonna put that there. So that's me.

01:36:16

That's me Jacob says Tuttle Twins is a Tom Woods production. Oh, I didn't know that So good.

01:36:22

Good. Good. Good and Someone says also none of those

01:36:27

American soldiers anymore. See me. Yeah, there's I I don't know Maybe the back has an American soldier, but no

01:36:33

Trudell says a Becca is literally a textbook boomer con from what I can remember. Okay Landon says

01:36:41

I was a Christian school principal for seven years I can't name a curriculum that doesn't laud Lincoln as the hero of the Union and I probably

01:36:48

That's the problem. Not the problem, but that is a problem Vision Forum was very pro -puritan

01:36:54

Well, which is you may have to pick something that you don't agree with 100 % on everything And you know a

01:36:59

Becca is better than the public schools But I I think you should at least be aware You're getting you're getting a narrative.

01:37:05

These pictures are picked in this sequence for a reason for a reason Okay, two more issues to discuss this one is

01:37:15

There was a big fight over this It's kind of dumb actually But but I'll address it because I was tweeting it.

01:37:22

I was having some fun tweeting about it Really is what I was doing this morning Canon press put out a advertisement

01:37:31

What's the advertisement for is it for new st. Andrews College? Yeah, it's for new st. Andrews College I can't keep these things straight.

01:37:38

Is it Canon press? Moscow dude, like I don't know then anyway, they put out this thing and and And and I'm probably they're probably getting the exact reaction they wanted because everyone's talking about them

01:37:53

So they're really good at that at times but This is the problem, okay, this is what people are upset about Some people some people are really defensive about it and saying that you're you're somehow weak and effeminate

01:38:07

I guess if you think this is a problem, but Young men wanted all caps Must be willing to hoist the

01:38:14

Jolly Roger and Johnny Cash's favorite finger Whenever faced with idolatry now, that means they must be willing to flip the bird

01:38:25

And then of course they show Johnny Cash Flipping the bird in this particular Advertisement and I'm just gonna be honest with you

01:38:37

My first reaction when I saw that it reminded me of homeschool kids that Thought it was really edgy to say a curse word and And when they would say it it just seemed really lame.

01:38:52

You know what I mean? Like like they thought they were doing something super edgy, but it's something that's common.

01:38:59

It's something that's around you It's not the only standard you're trying to break is the standard within the bubble within it shows that you're in a bubble

01:39:08

By framing it that way from the beginning Where do

01:39:15

I want to go with this I Don't know if I have a dog in the fight. So to speak like I The reactions to it seem like overkill like like it's like some of it seems like it's the same like like like think back to Two innocent kids who are like you said a bad word and then the other kid like you shouldn't say that That's what you can summarize a lot of what's going on on this particular question with that parallel so Owen Strand is like the kid

01:39:46

I guess who's like, you know, because he's He says that it is deeply problematic it is just it is is deeply problematic.

01:39:55

I Don't know if I would go that far to say it's deeply problematic, but it is immature it is

01:40:01

It's odd. I Remember that the Johnny Cash giving the finger pose was that I think

01:40:07

San Quentin prison the photographer who took it basically said hey you want to say something to the

01:40:13

Warden and Johnny Cash basically just did that and I'm sure everyone started cheering because you know, they

01:40:21

They're prisoners and that's who he's playing to My there was an album I had when I was a kid a

01:40:27

Johnny Cash album that had on the back cover him doing this I remember my dad had come I didn't even know see

01:40:32

I was that homeschool kid I guess I didn't or I just didn't see I didn't recognize what Johnny Cash was doing and my dad came in and put like A black tape over it so I wouldn't

01:40:41

Which which of course pointed it out even more to me and then I was like, wait a minute I didn't know what was going on. That's what it is.

01:40:47

And then I had to be well, I think I knew what it was I don't think they had to explain it to me. But But you know think about what that means think about I know some people are trying to say

01:40:57

Oh, that's a goes back to England and archers and okay. Yeah, maybe But just think about what that means in our context

01:41:06

Like if you were to verbalize that what that means, I don't need to verbalize it and just think of how silly that is

01:41:12

It's just silly you don't need you can promote masculinity and being tough without that And I'm I'm not like what

01:41:20

I'm saying I guess is that I think it needs to be more based and more based would be less cringe which that to me

01:41:26

That's cringe. Okay, just making that you know, kind of like a big deal making like hey

01:41:32

We're uh, we're okay with people flipping the finger if they're flipping it at degeneracy and idolatry.

01:41:37

It was idolatry Like I don't know. Give me a break like it's just crass You know, let's get some real like prophetic thus saith the

01:41:45

Lord type, you know, we need to bring that back somehow some really strong judgmental language that really you know

01:41:53

I think telling someone that they're going to hell or saying that you know God's gonna send you to hell you're in danger of hellfire.

01:42:01

I think that actually is So much more shocking and powerful if you say it in the right way

01:42:07

Then flipping the finger off because like I live in New York I see this all the time guys like this is just this is the way people are interact and And that's why it's like I'm not like soup

01:42:19

It doesn't offend me super much because I'm so desensitized to it. You know what I mean? So I don't want to build a church off of any of this

01:42:26

I don't want to like wax long and eloquent because it's just kind of dumb in my opinion But I think they're probably getting the risk.

01:42:33

They had to know this was gonna be intentionally somewhat provocative And it would some young men would be like, yeah, you know, we can break the rules

01:42:42

But like you're breaking rules inside a very narrow segment of Christianity. It's a little Christian bubble where you're breaking the rules

01:42:48

It's breaking rules. Honestly, this undermines traditional Bible Belt towns that are still out there where that is breaking the rules

01:42:56

That's what it is. Like it's where that where that where those are still rules where that still exists in society

01:43:01

That's the only place that's gonna find it edgy and that's the place that we really would like to conserve please

01:43:07

We don't want them doing that. You know, I remember when I was living in Lynchburg, which is Bible Belt.

01:43:13

I Remember there. I heard this kid say the f -word and I hardly you hardly ever hear the f -word out in public in Lynchburg and Because it's

01:43:22

Bible Belt Liberty University's there. You don't hear it on campus. I mean and it's wonderful.

01:43:27

I'm gonna be honest It's wonderful walking into coffee shops here in Christian music not having to hear the f -word

01:43:33

Not having to see people flip other people off and lose their minds not seeing

01:43:38

Magazine racks filled with semi pornographic material. It was a I miss it in some ways even though I struggled sometimes with some of the aspects of living in a bit of a bubble, but there were some great things about it and I Remember, I heard a kid say that and I just I was like man

01:43:56

It's coming here, too. And I'm sure even now it's it's because of television and all these other things It's it's more normalized where I live right now

01:44:04

You hear that all the time kids say that stuff all the time So someone says it's worth noting that San Quentin show was before Johnny Cash's own apparent

01:44:13

Christian conversion a hundred percent 100 % I meant to make this point and I'm glad you said something

01:44:18

Andrew That show was when Johnny Cash was strung out on drugs and he was in the world

01:44:25

He was not a believer yet when Johnny Cash became a believer. I don't know of any pictures of him doing that.

01:44:31

So There you go. There you go. That makes my point perfectly The you shouldn't say that kid is a great illustration for many evangelical influencers

01:44:44

Yeah, probably and I'm not saying I'm not like I'm not saying they shouldn't like not whatever they could do whatever they want

01:44:50

Like I'm not coming down with I'm not pearl clutching. Yeah, I was accused of that I'm not like like oh my goodness.

01:44:56

They say I'm more like okay big deal guys Like you're not that doesn't make you tough that doesn't like doesn't shock or like it shouldn't it shouldn't be it

01:45:04

Should just it makes you look kind of silly. That's all you don't be silly. That's why I say don't be silly I'm offending everyone today, aren't

01:45:13

I? I'm a fan. I said stuff about Liberty University said stuff about Canon press

01:45:18

I said Who can we instead of the abolitionists? Who can

01:45:25

I still offend today, let's just see Someone th says 98 grad here.

01:45:30

I remember the days in Lynchburg. The biggest attraction was the 24 -hour Walmart The kids would break curfew to walk to yeah,

01:45:38

I I remember that myself. I I Visited friends who were at Liberty University when

01:45:43

I was a lot younger and it was a different place By the way, it was more Southern Lynchburg was more

01:45:49

Southern Back in the day like you'd walk into Walmart and there'd still be people there with like camo hats and like tattoos and Confederate flags and stuff like it was um

01:46:01

It's changed. I'd say it's Liberty University's grown. The area is grown and become more suburban mom but I Don't know why

01:46:09

I said that I'm just throwing it out there fun fact about Lynchburg if you didn't know okay, let's

01:46:16

Switch gears. Do I have any gears to switch? Don't we have something else? Oh the yeah,

01:46:21

I got to find it now James White's in the Crusades thing.

01:46:26

I don't want to say much about this, but I'll say a little bit Okay, this is the only thing

01:46:31

I wanted to highlight James White I'll show you

01:46:38

Jay and I've listened to you know, I for probably about 15 years up and well, I don't want to say when

01:46:45

We're about 15 years. I did not miss a dividing line episode and I still I have the utmost respect for James White I don't have the time to listen to podcasts like I used to if I had unlimited time

01:46:55

I would still listen to James White's podcast. So It's I don't really listen to many podcasts as it is. I'm a podcaster.

01:47:01

I know that's weird. I read more but anyway James White is he's meant a lot to me because he has got some great resources on Islam on Roman Catholicism and all kinds of things and And I've just been helped

01:47:19

I think by some of those resources And so I want to give the man respect and and he isn't older than me

01:47:24

He's got more experience in that kind of thing. This concerns me though And it's a theological concern and I'm not gonna you know,

01:47:31

I guess let no one look down on your youth. I'm just gonna say it Smash bales the account smash bales on Twitter said if you think the

01:47:39

Crusades were bad you don't understand the horrors of Islam and James White responded by saying if you think the

01:47:45

Crusades were good. You don't understand the very essence of the gospel The horror of the false gospel and It probably never seriously prayed to be used of God Wow to bring

01:48:00

Muslims to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ I'm still scratching my head. And of course, it's gotten a lot of love that tweet

01:48:09

I'm I'm just really scratching my head about this. And of course you can see I liked the response

01:48:15

I don't even know if I read the whole response Oh, I think it's just smash bales basically saying look the

01:48:20

Muslims were incurring they were going into Christian lands They were taking slaves of Christian peoples making them

01:48:27

Janissaries making them sex slaves to fight against Christian peoples Christian You know lands in Christendom all this kind of thing

01:48:34

So I liked I liked that because I was like that's that's the reason that anyone would say The Crusades were good.

01:48:40

That's the reason anyone would defend the Crusades, right? So it I Yes, we all understand, you know,

01:48:48

I I knew I've known forever that yeah Pope Urban when he issued the call for the first Crusade offered an indulgence guaranteed

01:48:58

Eternal life if you serve in the Crusades, I I I know that is wrong theology and every

01:49:06

Protestant knows that I Would think a lot of I don't know where Catholics lined up on that to be honest with you today

01:49:12

But I'm assuming they'd have to try to defend it. But Yeah, like that's obviously very wrong.

01:49:18

It doesn't mean that that was the motivation of everyone who signed up to go to the Crusade It doesn't mean that's what the Crusade was all about the fundamental reason for the

01:49:25

Crusades and there were I think five of them Over about a 200 year period the fundamental reason for them was because Islam had aggressively made its way into Christian lands taking

01:49:37

Christian lands even taking Constantinople and Was wreaking havoc was was like I said making slaves of Christian peoples was

01:49:52

Using young Christian boys as sex slaves and then making them janissaries in their army it was after hundreds of years centuries of aggression that you have this response and I would like to say that the reason now you have some people wearing

01:50:06

Knights Templar or putting with Knights Templar stuff on their profiles Because it really does seem like we're in a similar situation in some ways

01:50:14

Only it's not military conquest. It's through immigration and the Pope just the other day

01:50:22

Insinuated that to be against Mass migration something like that is to to not be fully

01:50:29

Christian It was some something along those lines like we should Christian should be in support of Of immigration and so forth.

01:50:36

It's like not the time to say this Pope We are losing our character in the

01:50:41

West in many places in the Anglo world, it's in England It's just it's the saddest thing.

01:50:48

Like I can't even believe Some areas are just they have a two -tiered police system now there These Muslim areas are treated differently than Christian areas and so forth and the violence against That some of these migrants are committing against other people.

01:51:02

It's horrific. It's horrific and and for people to say, you know

01:51:08

We really need like a something like the Crusader to draw inspiration from the Crusades that said we're going to fight back against Islam It makes perfect sense.

01:51:18

I Think I'm interpreting this accurately and if dr. White ever watches it. Yeah, I think he he has to know this but Hopefully I'm the everyman here.

01:51:28

That's trying to say look No one's saying anything about the gospel. No one's saying that the the no one's no one's saying that the

01:51:36

Crusades were about Using a false gospel or Penetrating Muslims lands with a false gospel and that was their purpose.

01:51:44

The purpose was primarily it was a defensive action To go inside and to take back some of these lands that the

01:51:51

Muslims had took from Christians And to defend against greater incursions that's what the

01:51:57

Crusades were about and So I so anyway, what I what did I say? This is the concern

01:52:02

I have I'll show you on screen here So I just said very essence of the gospel question mark just to maybe see if he would clarify and say oh no

01:52:13

I didn't mean like, you know, I didn't mean that someone who Believes in what I just said is

01:52:20

Denying the gospel, but he seemed to kind of I don't know.

01:52:25

Is it a double down? Is it a are we? Misunderstanding each other he said yes, John Rome's gospel does not give peace.

01:52:32

I know I know this It's sacramental system is opposed to the gospel taught by Paul as we see in Galatians.

01:52:37

I thought you were reformed It's like okay. I said the confusion seems to be over whether one can believe this

01:52:48

About Rome and also think the Crusades were overall good for pushing back on Muslim aggression and Christian lands we're very used to woke

01:52:55

Christians telling us we do not have the gospel because of some social view and and then someone

01:53:01

Connell said watching himself destruct in real time is something and I actually liked it because I and I know that may sound harsh to some of you but guys, this is

01:53:10

I Meant what I said, like this is the kind of language I am used to hearing from the social justice guys that's why

01:53:17

I was like you really want to the very essence of the gospel you really want to bring that into this like Someone who thinks the

01:53:24

Crusades were good is just somehow They don't care about Muslims. They've never prayed to be used of God to bring one to the faith

01:53:31

I mean these are accusations that just I think are unfair and Dr.

01:53:36

White has done much good. I think he's done much good debating Muslims I think he's done much good with with other cults and I Just I can't go with him on this one and I do think this is

01:53:49

This betrays some of the things that he's said before so I know I'm going out on a limb And I know there's a lot of James White fans probably even in this audience

01:53:56

I'm going out on a limb with this one and I'm only going off his tweet by the way really, but this is

01:54:04

If he means what I think he means here. This is a self -destruction like this is this goes against I think the very principles that he's advocated for years

01:54:13

The God like I would say to him. Yes, the gospel is what Paul said in Galatians That's kind of the point. I was trying to make like it doesn't require you to be for or against some social cause

01:54:24

It doesn't require you to be for or against the Crusades or think they're good or bad to have the gospel

01:54:30

You can have the gospel and think the Crusades were good. You can have the gospel and think the Crusades were bad Because the gospel is the work of Christ.

01:54:36

It's not our belief about social matters It's not what we do in Wanting to bring

01:54:43

Muslims to Christ either. That's not the gospel so I see attention.

01:54:49

I see attention and It's you know to what extent this is a meltdown. Yeah, it would be a self -destruction because it would be

01:54:58

Betraying I think the very things that I've learned from James White. So I I say this

01:55:04

I hopefully I Say this and people can catch that I have a lot of respect for him and hopefully they can sense there

01:55:10

You know if I'm way off I'm willing to be corrected. Hopefully there's a humility there But this concerns me.

01:55:17

I've spent I mean, this is what I've written about in my books. This is I've spent I don't know how many hundreds of hours

01:55:23

Talking about woke guys who commit the Galatian heresy because they attach the gospel To some social view and say you have to have this social view or you don't have the gospel.

01:55:32

Are you and To see that kind of language creeping up In other places not on the the left is concerning to me

01:55:41

So I just want to say that I want to point that out and hopefully that comes through Wonder if mr.

01:55:49

White is against the Spanish Reconquista as a whole. I don't know Dr. White seems to be getting frustrated with what see he sees as theological disputes from a crowd mostly concerned about political disputes

01:55:58

The latter is not making the theological claim. That's an astute observation. I think you're right about that Yeah, the people that are the

01:56:05

Christians who are very gung -ho about the Crusades, I think It's it's primarily a political motivation political dynamics or what's are driving this but I think they do see a society a cultural

01:56:18

Christian society Socially Christian, you know doesn't mean every single person is a

01:56:24

Christian But they operate off of like Christian mores and laws and that kind of thing. I think that people who want to see that Defended as a

01:56:34

Christian society. I think that's where a lot of the hang -up is, you know, because because then He might call it sacral ism.

01:56:41

I don't know. That's a term. I think that's pretty unique to him I I was looking that up. I found one other person in the 80s

01:56:47

I think you use that term but but I think the broader concept is is that there's there's like a

01:56:53

Constantinian ism of some kind like a Merger they think the critics of this of church and state that shouldn't be there and that causes corruption and these kinds of things and And maybe that is what's behind this and what's driving this more than anything else

01:57:08

But I think it could be someone who thinks the Crusades were good and you're not that you're not trying to say let's merge ecclesiastical and Magisterial power

01:57:23

Paul Kern says read some of his stuff listen to some of his podcasts don't agree with all the stuff appears to have become woke

01:57:30

James White that I don't I don't think I would call him woke. I don't listen to his stuff as much like I said anymore, but He was helpful in 20 when

01:57:40

I first was undergoing some of this stuff She just as a voice of encouragement, but I knew there was someone else who saw some of the things that I saw at Southeastern all right, well,

01:57:50

I Guess that's it. I guess that's the podcast today. We've been going almost two hours.

01:57:55

You got a mega edition today I covered a lot of stuff. So I hope that was helpful for some of you just going through the the news stuff

01:58:03

I am gonna be preaching again in like two weeks, I guess so you can be praying for me as I Navigate that and there's a number of speaking engagements.

01:58:13

I have coming up starting with the fundamentals conference. So I'm looking forward to doing some more like biblical exegesis stuff

01:58:19

And I just want to let everyone know especially patrons Those who support my work. I'm really appreciative worldview sorry, patreon .com

01:58:26

forward slash worldview conversation and I haven't given an update there in a while, but You know, there is some exclusive content.

01:58:34

I'm working on for patrons I think we're gonna be talking about van till a little bit and what he thought about natural law.

01:58:41

It's gonna be interesting, but I Just Wanted to say that I've been writing as well and trying to really

01:58:50

I wanted to get my book done in June And because of a number of circumstances my own life,

01:58:55

I wasn't so I'm I'm very close And so I'm furiously trying to finish writing the book and this whole last week

01:59:02

I spent on understanding the Declaration of Independence this phrase all We hold these truths to be self -evident that all men are created equal and how that's been used misused misinterpreted

01:59:13

I think you're gonna like this book. I'm not gonna give it away I mean, that's you got to get the book to get what