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Join us on Open Air Theology as we discuss “general equity.”
We can say what you want, but you won't around me. Black sheep among misfits. A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the sixth sense. Been sick ever since my brother died of an OD. My two cents never made sense.
Either to me or anyone else inside of the sheep fence. My 9th Smith on my right side. Why you staring at your cock dot sign and my John Hancock on the dotted line? Tell me what's the bottom line. The bottom line is I'm not right.
I'm not left, but the cellophane won't fight. There's nothing left but the spotlight. Hold my beer. You can find me in the moonlight. You can say what you want. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.
You can say what you want. You can say what you want. I'm within the deep end, and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in. My theology don't fit in. Black sheep of the Reformation sheep pen. To the Reformed, I'm just another Baptist baptized again.
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Making Reformation great again. You can say what you want. You can say what you want, but you won't around me. You can say what you want. You can say what you want, but you won't around me. No, you won't around me.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Open Air Theology. My name is Jeff Rice. I'm one of the hosts of Open Air Theology, and I am one of the elders of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church here in Tallahoma, Tennessee.
If you're ever in Tallahoma, you wanna come check us out, please do so. And I'm here with my two brothers, my co-hosts, Abs Addison and Brayden Patterson. Brayden, I'm gonna turn it over to you, brother.
Sounds good, yeah. I'm Pastor Brayden Patterson from Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho. If you live in the Southern Idaho area, I'd please ask you to come to church, worship God with us. Also, I have a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex-Mormon.
Go over there, like, subscribe.
And also, I just gotta tell you guys, I'm so thankful for each one of you brothers tonight. I am excited to just sit at your feet and learn what you have to say about this. And on that, I'll turn it over to Abs.
Well, what is up, y 'all? This is Pastor Happy with Olive Branch Ministries, and I have a home where I have the privilege to serve those that are dying of cancer and the mentally ill. And I'm also the host of R &B Studios.
All right, so how y 'all guys been? What's going on? We haven't done this in a while.
Oh, man, it's that time of year.
That time of year, right.
It was like that last year, you know?
I've had some problems with StreamYard, like the last few times that we've gotten on here to try to do it, like, and for some reason, it wasn't advertising on my Facebook page. And it's not doing it as good as it was when we first started now.
So I'm probably gonna be looking to move to some other kind of StreamYard, streaming system that will advertise us better. But it's good to see y 'all's face as we get into this topic. So the topic of general equity.
So general equity or not, right? So are we as Christians to hold to general equity? And there seems to be a big fuss over this. You know, there's a theonomic movement that's taken place, which I, at one time, three years ago, I would have said that I was a theonomist, but preaching verse by verse through the book of Galatians, I no longer say that I am a theonomist.
Not that I don't hold to God's law, but if you remember, a few months ago, I made a statement which came in to bite me in the butt about how the name has changed to what it was originally. The meaning of it has changed.
And y 'all better chill out.
And I made mention that, I'm gonna use someone and not me this time. If someone was to say that they were gay.
Oh God, there we go again. There we go again.
If someone was to say that they were gay.
Oh my gosh.
With our knowledge today, we would say, okay, they're saying that they're a homosexual, right? But the root of the word gay just means happy, right?
Time out, time out.
Pastor Gay.
Time out. Not if anybody says that they're gay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When you guys say you're gay, we're gonna make fun of you. That's what that means.
Oh, you're so gay that we're not gonna get to Tennessee this February.
But it's the idea that the word gay now means something that it didn't mean when it first came into origin, right? Well, so too with theonomy. So it's theos, theos, numos. So theos, God, numos, law. God's law, theonomy, God's law.
So basically that's all theonomy means. But people are taking it and they're projecting it to something else. And it's more what I would say, because like some people will say the opposite of theonomy is antinomianism.
But the opposite of antinomianism is pronomianism, pro-law, not theonomy. So you're either pro-law, pro-numa, what is it? Antinomian, pronomian. You're either pronomian or you're antinomian. God's law, theonomy should not even be brought up in the argument.
And also the, like I think we're coming up with too many different words to distinguish us between other believers, right? Now, so when it comes to like theonomy or general equity, I think my biggest problem with it is there is no consensus, right?
No one can say this is what theonomy, the movement is, because it's going in so many different directions depending on which group of people that you're talking to. It's not like reformed theology or let's just take another hated doctrine that I believe and that you guys believe, but like say Calvinism, right?
Calvinism, if someone says that they are Calvinist, you know what they believe if you have a historical theological understanding.
Yeah, yeah.
Right, they hold to the five points, right? You can use the acronym of TULIP. There's nothing like that when it comes to general equity theonomy. And so I would say that I'm Reformed Baptist, so I do hold to general equity, but I would not say that I'm a part of this theonomic movement.
So that would be my opening, if any one of y 'all wanna throw in on that.
Well, you know, when, you know, I used to be a post-millennial theonomist up until about, I think, what was it, Rice?
About the same time I stopped being a post-millennial.
Yeah, we both, it was, we were both working and my brother, Seth, you know, was really hammering it on me. And I just started looking at the scriptures and I'm just, this is like almost like a completing of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, you know?
This is actually like, they're not, they're, you know, the oldest passed away and I just started noticing as I was really, I was really fascinated by the whole thing, you know, to be honest, but then I started, I started, yeah, I mean, I was captured into it and stuff.
And then I started seeing that the Hebrew roots does the exact same thing, you know?
I mean, I mean.
Hebrew roots are pronominal.
Pronomial.
Pronomial, I can't, I can't get the word together. They're pronominal.
Yeah, and it was kind of crazy because I was watching this podcast called Messiah Matters and which they hold to the doctrines of grace and everything like that, but they believe in one Torah that's called, one Torah.
So that they believe God's law was for all nations, all people, all times, whether you believed in dispensationalism. So they don't believe in the covenants. They believe that there's one covenant, all right?
And as I started really diving in and finding out this, I think it's, who started that movement was Bashu Wuton, was this Hebrew roots teacher that was teaching all this stuff. And I just kept seeing similarities between theonomy.
And, but then again, I was always challenged about, what are you, was it antinomian? And I was just like, well, no, I love God's law, but it's written right here now, and that's when I really started digging in.
And yeah, so that's why I had to throw in on it.
Brayden, you got anything you wanna throw in Brayden?
You know, this is one area as I think each one of us, like if I wanted to know how to share the gospel to somebody that's mentally ill or go through those kinds of things, I'd go to Habs Addison. I think each one of us have different areas in our theology that we are more studied and learned and being able to express those views more accurately.
And I know that in theonomy, this is one thing that I am still studying out. I am definitely not, I definitely hold to general equity is what Jeff Rice was talking about already. And so I, like I said, in my opening, I am so excited to sit at these gentlemen's feet as I really, really appreciate their fellowship, their education and everything that they have to say on this topic.
I think when we get into our creed and confession that we hold to as reformed Baptists, I think we're gonna just start seeing how it's inconsistent to hold to theonomy in the way that it is being pushed today and consider yourself to be a reformed Baptist.
I, yeah, I'll leave it at that.
So why don't you give us a definition, Jeff, of what a general equity is for a lot of those people that don't know this language out there?
Well, I think the best way to do that is not me give a definition, but to look at the confession and to see what the confession has to say. Let me read this. Do you believe that all people everywhere are...
Matt, we will definitely get to that question. Not right at the moment. He wants to know, can y 'all see the question?
Yeah, I read it, yep, yep, yep.
I can't see it at all.
So are you on my Facebook feed? Where are you at that's live?
Just in the top right on our own stream yard, you can click on comments and it'll read off what's on there.
Yeah, if you click on comments on the stream yard,.
You should be able to see it.
But yeah, define general equity for us, Jeff.
Well, like I was saying, I think it'd probably be best to just look into the confession to see what it says. Brayden, do you have a confession on you?
I do, yes, sir.
Would you mind reading?
Yeah, which paragraph?
So chapter 19. So I think the most important paragraphs in here are gonna be paragraph three.
Paragraph four.
Probably paragraph five. Paragraph two might be bad either.
Well, let's just read it all.
Yeah, yeah, what would you like me to read?
Chapter 19, let's just read all of chapter 19 through.
Do you want me to read it all right now?
Yeah. Just one take? Okay, let's do it.
I'll stop you if I want you to stop.
Okay, you just interrupt me, I'll stop. So chapter 19, the law of God, paragraph one states, God gave Adam a law of comprehensive obedience written in his heart in a specific precept, not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
By these, God obligated him and all his descendants to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience. God promised life if Adam fulfilled it and threatened death if he broke it. And he gave Adam the power and ability to keep it.
Paragraph two, the same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall. It was delivered by God on Mount Sinai in 10 commandments and was written in two tablets or tables.
The first four commandments contain our duty to God and the other six, our duty to humanity. Paragraph three.
Oh, so what law is he talking about?
So that's the moral law, the one that everybody knows what right and wrong.
The transcendent law, right? So this law, which was originally, like whenever it was penned, was on two tablets of stone, right? So in Exodus, we read about 19, 20, the law and penned in stone. And then in the next few chapters, and also in Deuteronomy and all this other stuff, it kind of lays it out too, the precepts of the law are written out.
Coming from, so the precepts, the statutes and precepts, they come from these 10 transcendent laws, right? Now, these 10 transcendent laws that are given in the 10 commandments, the 10 words, the Decalogue, these are transcendent.
No matter if you've ever seen them written or whatever, you don't have to know about Moses, you don't have to know about the 10 commandments written on stone, no matter what tribe you're from, these 10 words are written in the mind of man's conscience.
I wouldn't say it's in their heart, because I believe that only believers have it in their heart, but it's in their mind, right? Everyone knows it's wrong to lie, to steal, and to cheat. You might not think it's wrong for you to lie, steal, and cheat, but if someone was to lie, steal, and cheat from you, well, now we got a problem, right?
I mean, Hitler probably didn't think it was wrong for him to lie, steal, and cheat, but if you lie, steal, or cheat from Hitler, guess what?
You die.
You die, right? Right, because he knew that it was wrong. It was written in his conscience. All right? So these 10 laws, the 10 words, the 10 commandments are in everyone's mind. Everyone is obligated to keep the 10 commandments, but we don't.
All right, keep reading.
Yep, and I'm sure we're going to open up to Matthew chapter 22 later today, but, or another day, but yeah.
Sure, well, I was going to say earlier, this is going to be way more than one episode. There's no way we're going to get through this.
I love it. Well, paragraph three says this. In addition to this law, usually called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typological ordinances.
In some ways, these concern worship by prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits. In other ways, they revealed various instructions about moral duties. Since all of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the new order arrived, they are now abolished and taken away by Jesus Christ as the true Messiah and the only law giver.
He was, and the only law giver. He was empowered by the father to do this.
All right, so is the ceremonial laws abolished?
Yes.
All right.
Yeah, of course.
All right, if you're a pronomian, no, the answer is no. The answer is no. The answer is no. If you're a pronomian, the answer is no. There's one Torah. The answer is no.
That's correct.
All right, when it comes to the law, so you have two different things to really look at when it comes to reformed theology being orthodox. You have the three uses of the law and the three divisions of the law.
The three divisions of the law would be civil, moral, and ceremony, right? If you can, like the way that our text is kind of explaining it, like these things come from the moral law. The moral law came first, and then the statutes and rules come off of the moral law.
So if you can imagine a water spout, right? And if you could see a water spout and then put a divider in between that water spout, and as the water comes out, and let's say that this divider is gonna be spread out in this way.
So you have the moral law, the water, the moral law is coming out of the spout, and it spreads into civil and ceremonial, right? The civil and ceremonial laws stem from the Decalogue. The Decalogue came first.
It is the transcendent law, period, okay? The civil and the ceremonial come from it.
Developed out of it.
Yeah, they come out of it, all right? And then you have the three uses of the law, which for reformed and also I would say the Lutherans use this. So what I would say number one is, the Lutheran would say it's number two, and vice versa.
So I would say that the first use of the law is a mirror. So we use the law of God as a mirror, right? Whether we're preaching it to ourselves or we're witnessing to someone. We see, you know, when I witnessed someone to kind of like the way of the master type stuff, or when I'm preaching a sermon, like I'm using God's law to show people that they're a sinner and they need a savior, right?
If you ever told a lie, you ever stolen something, you've broken God's law, you deserve the wrath of God. For all have sin. What is sin? Sin is transgression against the law. It's violating God's law.
The wages of sin is death. We're all gonna die because we broke God's law. So you use the law as a mirror. And the second use is what we see in government. It's a curb. The government is to use God's law as a curb, to keep you, to restrain you from being as evil as you could be, right?
If you kill someone, especially in Texas, they'll kill you, right? But there's punishment for breaking laws. And so our government are supposed to use these 10 rules, the moral law as a curb. And for those that are in Christ, for the believer, when we read scripture, we read it with a flashlight, okay?
Now, I'm not saying that you're in a dark room and you've got a flashlight reading your scripture. But what I'm saying is, is that the flashlight that we read from is Christ. So we read scripture, we read law with Christ being in light.
In light of what Christ has done is how we are to understand law. Matt, we can't answer any questions right now. We'll get to the questions. We're trying to lay down a foundation. I promise we'll answer all your questions.
And so you have the three divisions, civil, moral, ceremonial, and you have the three uses that's broken down from the moral, which is a mirror, a curb, and a flashlight. So this is how the reformed have broken it up.
Now, the Jews would say that it is not broken up. It's only one law, it's Torah. If the two sides is antinomianism and pronomianism, then pronomianism is Torah. It is the whole thing, hook, line, and sinker, swallowing.
That's what it means to be pronomian. A lot of people that started into the theonomic movement, even reformed people, Calvinistic people, are now pronomian, and they won't eat a hot dog unless it's beef.
No, stop it.
Yeah, I'm serious. This movement is headed you right back to Jerusalem, not this new Jerusalem. All right? It's putting people back under Moses. Moses brought the law. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, yeah.
Grace and truth in Moses are not compatible. All right? Now, I'm not saying that I'm against God's law. Again, I cannot be against God's law because it's not something that I can be against because we are not under the Mosaic law.
We are under God's transcendent law. The transcendent law, although it was given to Moses on two tablets of stone, it was before Moses. All right? That law existed before Moses. Adam knew it was wrong to lie.
Adam knew it was wrong to steal. Adam knew it was wrong to kill, right? He knew he was to only worship the Lord, his God. That law was before Moses. To Moses, it was given to him to write down.
That is part of having the image of God. Not only is it to participate in the communicable attributes of God, it's also to have the moral law resonating in your mind in that way, in your conscience. And I'd also add to what you just said, Jeff, and point somebody as a Bible verse that I've quoted several times now on this podcast.
Hebrews chapter eight, verses six through 12 in there. It's a repetition of Jeremiah 31, 31 through 34. And in there, and I'm just gonna quote it off the top of my hand. I'm sorry, I probably misquoted somewhat,.
But it says that
Yeah, I got it marked.
This is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand, for I did not care what to them.
For I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and I will put my law in their minds and I will write it upon their hearts and they shall no longer say to their brothers, no God, for they shall all know me from the least to the greatest of them.
For I shall be their God and they shall be my people and I will forgive their sins and their iniquities. I will remember no more. In that, if you go to a Christian, and this is a reality of being born again, that's a promise of being a new covenant member.
And so when we talk about the law of God being written upon our hearts.
Can we look at verse 13 first?
Yeah, please do. Please read it.
So verse 13 says this, when he said a new covenant, he made the first covenant. So Moses obsolete.
Yeah.
But whatever has become an obsolete is growing old and is ready to disappear.
Yep, absolutely. And so where I was going with that is that in the garden, Adam had to be told to not eat of the fruit. Being created, if God had not told him to not eat of the fruit, he wouldn't have known better to eat or not to eat of that fruit.
It was told to him specifically to Adam. When you go to the new covenant members and you see that the old covenants are ready to disappear because the new has come. And this covenant is completely different than what the old covenant was.
As it's all the members of this covenant are saved and their sins are forgiven. The iniquities God remembers no more. The law that's written upon their hearts. If, think about this for a moment. If Pronomianism was what we were to follow, we were to follow both the moral law, the judicial law and the ceremonial law to a T, it would be written on every single Christian's heart to do so.
However, I don't see that as being a consistent thing in the last 2000 years of Christians that proclaim faith in Jesus Christ. What do they all hold to? The moral law that's written on every single Christian's heart to know what's right and what's wrong.
And that's what guides the Christian conscience today.
That's it.
I think the rest of the conversation will be hashed out in the next section in our chapter. What was you gonna say Habs?
Well, just to show you guys that the extreme that this can go to when it comes to Pronomian. And that's where theonomy is definitely in that direction. It's really marching off into that direction, right?
There's with the Hebrew Roots Movement, these Pronomians and stuff, what they like to do is conflate the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. And actually what they do is when you come across Jeremiah 31, 31, and it starts talking about the New Covenant, that word in Hebrew is Kadesh.
And so what they believe is that the New Covenant is a renewal of the Old Covenant, all right? And so if you were to go to Strong's Word 2318, that word Kadesh literally means renew. That's when it's being used as a verb, all right?
But it'll give you a list. If you go to Strong's 2318, it'll give you a list of all the places in scripture where that word is used. The only place it's not used is Jeremiah 31, 31. And if you go to Strong's Word 2319, that same word Kadesh is there, but it's an adjective, which is a description of a person place.
It's a description of a noun, all right? So new would literally mean new, all right? So when it says the old has passed away, the old has passed away and the new literally has come. And so trying to conflate the Old Covenant and New Covenant bringing in, especially civil laws, you know, I mean, you know, just bear with me for a second.
If you guys go to Leviticus, go to the Leviticus 19, I was joking about this earlier. It's old holiday there. Oh, six gunner, Leviticus 19. I'm just gonna, let's see, let's see. I'm just gonna go to 1926.
You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mark the edges of your beard. So you're in a lot of trouble.
I'm in trouble guys.
You're through. But he keeps going on and on to profane your daughter by making her a prostitute and it's going down with all. And at the very, very end in 37 right here, it says, and you shall observe all my statutes and my rules and do them.
I am the Lord. So that means all, all means all.
All means all, all the time. And that is all, all means.
Hallelujah.
Brayden, if you would finish reading.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was on paragraph four, right?
Yeah, four.
Okay, so we just finished up on the ceremonial law portion. Now paragraph four says this, to Israel he also gave various judicial laws, which ceased.
Which what?
Wait.
What was that?
What did you say?
Is this what it was originally written as? Is this modern language we're reading right here? Did they change something? Let me read that again. To Israel, he also gave various judicial laws, which ceased at the same time.
Yeah, it just happened. Which ceased at the same time their nation ended. These laws no longer obligate anyone as part of that institution. Only their general principles of justice continue to have moral value.
Cool.
All right, so we're not gonna overlook the general equity. We're gonna get into the general equity. But 1689, Reformed Baptist, and also if you hold to the Westminster, chapter 19 says the same thing.
I even think there's more meat on what it says.
Yeah, oh yeah.
All right, the ceremonial law ends and the judicial law ends. Well, how do we know this? There is, when 70 AD came, the temple fell, right? You cannot have a ceremonial system. And our text is saying the judicial left too.
The Jews are no longer the people of God in the sense of a covenant and being a geopolitical nation. The people of God are those who have their faith in Christ. To them, he gave the right to become the children of God.
Now, I wanna real quick look at Matthew chapter, what?
I said, true Jews are the ones with the circumcision of the heart. Not of the flesh.
Yeah, so if you look at Matthew chapter five, verse 17, it says this, do not think, this is Jesus speaking. Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
So the idea here is what does it mean to fulfill? I would say that it's him living the life. Well, first it's that in the Torah and in the prophets, there was a prophesied Messiah. In the Torah specifically, Moses talked about a prophet like him from among his brothers.
Jesus is the prophet that Moses spoke about. The prophets spoke about a coming Messiah that would come, right? We see this in Isaiah. We see this, well, I don't wanna go through and name off every book, but we see this in the prophets.
So his coming, in one sense, just his coming alone fulfills the law and the prophets. But also it's him living the life that we could not live by keeping the law, right? He kept the law perfect in every single way.
He lived the life that we could not live and died the death, took the punishment that you and I deserve. So let's just keep reading real quick. And it says, for truly I say to you, until heaven and earth passes away, not the smallest letter of the stroke shall pass from the law until it is accomplished.
Now, some translation will say an iota, but it just means nothing in the law will cease to be there until heaven and earth pass away. At this time, Jerusalem was considered the place where heaven and earth met, all right?
Jerusalem, in Revelation, it says, I saw the whore, as the whore of Babylon was leaving, the new Jerusalem was coming, a transition of the covenant, right? Christians are the bride of Christ. We are the new Jerusalem, all right?
So right here, it says not the, hold on one second. Let me finish this thought. It says, truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter of the stroke shall pass away from the law.
Let me ask you this one more time. I'm not gonna look. Forget we even said anything about the judicial laws. Has the ceremonial laws ended?
That's more than the smallest letter or stroke. If the ceremonial laws have ended, that is more than the smallest letter or stroke. That's more than an iota, right or wrong?
No, you're right.
All right, so that means heaven and earth has passed away.
Yeah, can I add something to that real fast?
Yeah, go ahead.
So also it says, and this is what Jesus said, you know, not me, but at the tail end of Luke 24, when he said, and he opened up their minds to understand the scriptures, that everything written in the law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.
Must be fulfilled.
And they were through him.
Yeah, and that is, if my memory serves me right, it's that same word used for fulfill right here, but it's like fulfilled, you know, that.
Right, right. I wanna go to the, to Luke, I mean, to Galatians. I wanna show in Galatians. I was having a debate, a friendly debate with a theonomist that called me one day. He's my friend. I think he's a brother in Christ.
I love him. If he needed something from me, I would be there in a heartbeat, right? Y 'all know me, we can have a debate and still be very, very close. Ain't that right, Brandon?
Yeah, that's right.
That's a fact.
We're all men, brother.
And what I did, I said, I said, read this and tell me what it's talking about. And then I just read it to him. Galatians chapter three. Now I'm reading it from the LSB. My mind is still hooked to the ESV.
So sometimes I'll, as I'm reading it, for some reason I'll quote the ESV. So please forgive me if I mess up in any way. Okay, so chapter three, let's look at verse 15. It says, brothers, I speak in a human terms, even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds to, or adds conditions to it.
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say and to seeds as referring to many, but rather to one and to your seed, that is Christ. And when I was saying, and what I am saying is this, the law which came 430 years later does not validate a covenant, a covenant previously ratified by God so as to abolish the promise.
For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise, but God has granted it to Abraham, guaranteed it to, I'm sorry, guaranteed it to Abraham by promise. Now right here, verse 19, why then the law?
It was added because of trespasses having been ordained through angels. So as Moses is on, like there's other scriptures that pray this, but as Moses was receiving the law, it tells us that it was angels that was handing him the law, ordained through angels by the hands of a mediator until, so right here, until the law was given because of trespass, it was handed to Moses by angels until the seed would come to whom the promise has been made.
So the law was only until the offspring, that is Christ came. This is what Galatians teaches. This is the book that I was preaching through when I said, oh crap, I cannot be a theonomist. I mean, not that I don't love God's law, I'm just talking about the movement.
I can't be a part of this movement that preaches that we are under, that we are to establish the civil law code on all nations. Ladies and gentlemen, we are not going to win the world to Christ by establishing the Mosaic law.
The Mosaic law didn't win the people of Israel to God.
What did it produce though?
It was their stumbling block.
Yeah, what did it produce?
The very thing that crucified our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
The law was their, it was a stumbling block. It was something that they tripped over.
I also think that it's also taking, when it comes to theonomy, theonomist and post-millennial actually, that the problem is when it comes to the great commission, that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ, therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptize them, and then teach them to obey all that Christ has commanded.
And so, you go to 1 John, it says, these are the commandments of Christ, that you love God and you love, you believe. And the one who was sent, and also to love your neighbor as yourself.
Again, I haven't been in Galatians in a while, and this is a new Bible, but verse 23 says this. But before faith came, we were held in custody under the law, being shut up for the coming faith to be revealed.
Therefore, the law has become our tutor until Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the tutor. What's the tutor? It's the law. It's the law.
The tutor is the law. It says that we are no longer under the tutor, which is the Mosaic law. Now, I'm not talking about the transcendent law that was before Moses, that was given to Moses, right? I'm talking about the precepts and the civil code and the ceremonial code, right?
Hebrews actually talks about that as, so as the, like it speaks about in such a way that it seems that the rules and regulations are written on the back of the tablets. And as the tablets were going away and disappearing, the 10 words remove themselves from the stone tablets and they're placed in the heart and mind of the believer.
All right, we don't need signs to tell us what the 10 commandments are. If you are a believer, those 10 words, the Decalogue has been removed from the tablet of stone and they're placed according to Romans chapter eight, they're placed in our mind and in our heart, right?
The civil and ceremonial laws are not placed in our mind and they're not placed in our heart. And so now I think we should look at some examples of general principles, general equity, right? I know I've been talking, do any of y 'all have any examples that y 'all wanna look at first before I get into it?
No, go ahead.
No, I assume that we're gonna go to 1 Corinthians nine and 1 Corinthians five and 2 Corinthians five. Is that where we are?
Well, we are. First, I wanna go right back to Matthew. I wanna show that, I wanna show that Jesus himself.
All right, so if you look at, so if I can have you to read Exodus chapter 21, verse 24, and you can add some context if you feel like it.
Exodus 20, 24?
Exodus 21 and verse 24, but you can add context to it if you feel like it. So take just a second, look at it and see if you need to add something.
Well, yeah, we should start in 23.
Okay.
It says Exodus 21, 23, but if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, and for a hand, foot for a foot, burn for burn, womb for womb, stripe for stripe.
Matthew chapter five, verse 38. This is general equity. Jesus said, you have heard that it was said an eye for an eye. So what is he quoting? Exodus 22. I mean, Exodus 21, 24.
Where are you?
Chapter five, what?
Matthew chapter five, verse 38. You have heard that it was said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say to you, do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
That was his general equity. So instead of, okay, you knocked my tooth out, let me knock yours out. You poked my eye out, let me poke yours out. He's saying, if they slap you on one side, because it's eye for eye, tooth for tooth, if they slap you on one side, give them the other side.
That's his general equity. Is Jesus an antinomian?
No, he's not.
All right. So I know a lot of people, they don't think that John chapter eight should be in the scriptures, but speaking about the picare adultery, and I don't know where y 'all stand on it, but I hold to a majority text view.
So I believe that it should be in the scriptures and we don't have to camp out there, but if you don't believe in it, you're in the minority. The majority of throughout church history believe that it should be there, but we see Jesus not stoning a woman for adultery.
Deuteronomy 22, they need to be put to death. All right. So we see Jesus not putting her to death. So that means Jesus is an antinomian, but also Paul must be an antinomian. First Corinthians chapter five.
First Corinthians chapter five, we see, and Brayden, if I could have you to read it.
First Corinthians chapter five, we see adultery taking place. Begin in verse one and carry out to where he's cast out.
Yeah, it's essentially all, it's the whole chapter. So first Corinthians chapter five says this, and I'm reading out of my beautiful Post-Tenebrous Lux.
And I need one so I can be on the same page.
You do need one of these. Everyone needs one of these. I'm just gonna throw that out here. You just won't get one as beautiful as mine, okay? You just can't, it's impossible.
I don't got a cool wife.
All right. Yes, you do.
I know.
First Corinthians five. Mine's the coolest though, but I'm
So first Corinthians five, one through 13. It is actually reported that there is a sexual immorality among you and sexual immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles that someone has his father's wife and you have become puffed up and have not mourned instead so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
For I, on my part, though absent in the body but present in the spirit, have already judged him as to so, or as so committed this as though I were present in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ when you are assembled and I with you in spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus.
Deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ
Stop right there for a second. I want you to continue reading in just a second. So what we have here, theologians say that this is the main reason for Paul writing this letter because he heard this report.
Yep.
All right, and he's telling them that you have someone in your congregation who is living in sin. And the sin is that he's actively a part of the church and he's sleeping with his stepmother, right? I mean, it says his father's wife.
Okay, well, what would that make up?
It's his stepmother, right?
He's actively living in sin, in open rebellion with his stepmother sexually. And he says, throw them out. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. He said, stone them. My bad.
My bad.
No, no. Paul said, remove him. The general equity for adultery, which should be stoning, put to death, the general equity was you remove them from the church.
All right. Now, can someone give me any kind of Bible verse that shows that Paul, Peter, or anyone approached, we're trying to establish the Mosaic law in Rome. Like, is there any verse for that? Because I haven't found any.
No, there's Romans chapter 13, verse one. It's obvious right there.
Right, right. Like, there is nothing. There is nothing because the law cannot win the world. They win the world by preaching the death barrel and resurrection of Jesus. The church has grown for 2 ,000 years.
Like, if you just want to look at it, the new company has grown for 2 ,000 years through the preaching of the gospel, never by establishing laws. So, is Paul an antinomian? Because he did not stone her.
I mean, he did not stone him. Is Paul an antinomian?
You guys just hadn't read enough theonomy books, okay?
He hasn't read enough theonomy books, yeah. But what Paul is, he holds to general equity. So, he took the general equity. This man has sin, he's sleeping with his stepmother openly, living in rebellion.
Because of that, the church is to establish church discipline. But right now, it's gone so bad, he's saying, you throw him out to Satan.
Throw him out to Satan. He is not to be in your fellowship. Continue to read.
Verse seven, middle of it. For Christ, our Passover lamb, also was sacrificed. Therefore, let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters. For then, you would have to go out of the world.
But now, wait, and I would like to pause there. It doesn't.
Yeah, that's good. That's good.
That's something that we need to pause at.
For then, you would have to go out of the world. I don't know why Paul doesn't say that you should be then therefore going out and changing the world into a pronomian type of state.
I don't get why Paul wouldn't say that.
And also, he says that he told him not, I think it was verse eight, it says, no, verse nine. I wrote you this letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. All right. But the sexually immoral people that he's speaking about is the guy that's sleeping with his father's wife.
He's not speaking about the sexually immoral people that are not in the church, right? If you don't associate, I'm gonna make this real for us real quick, because we're living in a sexual revolution where we're getting the hijacked rainbow flag thrown in our face, right?
The homosexual, the alphabet people, like whatever you wanna call them, whatever, do what you do. He's not telling us to not associate with them, but he is telling us if there's a church that's pro-homosexual, you don't associate with them.
If you know Christians.
Who claim to be a homosexual and a Christian, you don't associate with them. But if you know a homosexual that doesn't claim to be a Christian, you are to associate with them. Why? How else are they gonna hear the gospel?
How else are they gonna hear the gospel? We are supposed to be around wicked men and women for the proclamation of the gospel. But if someone professes faith in Christ and they're living in open rebellion of sin, they do not wanna repent, they aren't listening to their elders.
He says, you don't associate with someone like that. You leave that person to Satan. And go ahead.
Yeah, so verse 11 to 13, but now I am writing to you not to associate with any so-called brother, if he is a sexually immoral person or greedy or an idolater or reviler or a drunkard or a swindler, not even to eat with such a one.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Are you not to judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God will judge. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
All right, so if someone in my... I'm an elder at a church. If someone in my congregation is sleeping around on their wife, right? And it's brought to my attention, I am to establish church discipline, call him to repentance.
If he does or he or she, whatever, however that looks, he or she does not repent, what am I to do?
Stone him.
Remove them from the church, right? Now, let's say my nearest neighbor was sleeping around on his wife. Do I have any authority over him? I can't kick him out of my church. I can't call him to repentance, right?
Because he's not a part of the body of Christ that I'm in. I have absolutely no authority over him, none whatsoever. I can only have authority... I only have authority for general equity to those that are in my congregation, right?
If you're among my congregation, you're living in open sin, church discipline will take place. If you're unrepentant, you gotta go. We're not having that here. Again, my neighbor was to do something like that.
I have no authority over him. If I go over and knock on his house, like he can have me arrested. If I keep bugging him, I'll be the one going to jail. I'll be the one separated from my wife and kids.
And I would also add on that too, in that verse 10, where I paused out before, if you were to try to have authority over the neighbor, what Paul is saying in here is that you would actually have to leave the world.
You would have to leave the world. That's what he says in here. It says that for then you would have to go out of the world. They're not gonna be, you're not gonna be able to exercise that over them. They don't have that over them.
So don't stone them.
Don't stone them.
Yeah, I mean, what would happen if you do stone them? Let's bring it to that. So let's say your neighbor's committing adultery or whatever it might be. The law says that they are, the law of God, Moses says they are to be put to death.
Someone stones them, what happens? What happens to them? They got wife and kids. What happens to them?
They have to suffer.
Yeah, they go to jail. Their wife and kids are removed from their husband and father.
But of course, if you wanna be very technical when it comes to this, if you do not stone them.
Remember what we read in Leviticus? Remember we have to obey all.
All, all means all, all the time, that's all all means.
Well, as we're here right now, I know we touched base on this earlier now, before we came on the air, but I mean, you see the beauty of it right here in the next chapter six, in chapter six, nine through 11.
You mind if I read it?
You said nine through 11.
Yeah, six, nine through 11, 1 Corinthians. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, capital offense, nor idolaters, capital offense, nor adulterers, capital offense, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Those are all capital offenses right there, according to the, all right. But this is the beauty of it right here. And such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
Yeah, every, like if the law is established, if we're under the Mosaic law, every one of us should die.
Oh yeah.
Jesus's general equity, Jesus, like, yeah. Like if you go right back to Matthew, we're gonna see Jesus use general equity using the 10 commandments. So Matthew chapter five, we're gonna look at the adultery passage.
So verse 28, no, verse 27, excuse me. You have heard that it was said, you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
All right, so if you look with lust, general equity, I mean, well, if you look with lust, every one of us, every one of us has done this, that's adultery.
All right, well, that's a death sentence. Now, how did Jesus take the seventh commandment and come up with this general equity by using the 10th commandment with the seventh commandment? The 10th commandment is covenant.
You want something so bad that you wish your neighbor didn't have it and you had it. Right, so you see your neighbor's wife, or, you know, you want it so bad that you're thinking about his, you're thinking about having.
Okay, that's called covenant. I mean, you are covenanting something that's not yours. So when you see a woman, or if a woman sees a man, and he or she is thinking about having sexual thoughts about them, they're lusting, that's something that doesn't belong to them, so they're covenanting.
And because it's sexual, Jesus says that's adultery. So Jesus, in general equity, takes the 10th commandment, applies it to the seventh, and condemns all people everywhere. Every one of us deserves to be stoned.
Just like if you have hatred in your heart for your brother.
It's murder.
It's murder, you know, I mean, gosh, I mean.
Eye for an eye, right, tooth for a tooth. Yeah, so when it comes to general equity, we're for general equity, right? We wanna take, you know, now, I said something earlier, we're for general equity, but there's a problem with general equity.
And that is, is there's no weights and balance for it, right? There's no general idea of what it is. Like, there's nothing set in paper, nothing written out that this is general equity. This is what it is, this is what it means, this is how you are to use it to interpret.
And I use Calvinism, right? So if someone says that they're a Calvinist, we know exactly what they mean, we know what they believe, they hold to the five points, the doctrines of grace, the acronym TULIP, T-U-L-I-P, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints.
So like, there's something edged in that you can Google and look up of what it is. There is nothing like that concern in general equity. How is it that we are to apply God's law? What we do have is particular incidents that's taken place in scripture.
Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, Jesus said, turn the other cheek. Someone's committing adultery, if they're a part of your church, what do you do? You remove them, right? We don't have this in scripture with every sin.
And I'm not saying that I should be the one that go in and write the book on it. I don't want that responsibility. So I do hold a general equity, but there is no consensus to where we can point to and say, and this is what it is.
Because everyone that holds a general equity all have their own idea of what general equity is. And because that's true, it's dangerous. It can be dangerous.
It can be, absolutely.
Yeah, it can be dangerous.
There's the hikers on every side of the coin, right? Like there's the people that go too far on every theological position and make it into something that should not or never was intended to be, right?
Or if they really start, scripture says where there is no law, there's no iniquity. And so what happens is we're not supposed to add or take away from the law. And so that can have consequences, especially if you're trying to make, especially our country, a theocracy.
You know, like look at all the different laws that have branched off from, you know, like, you know, like we got this law down here. Like, you know, whenever a law is passed here in the United States, there's like seven laws that pass with it or five laws that pass with it.
And so they had a, I remember down in Arizona, they had a law passed. Like if you want, if you're renting an apartment, all right, if you're renting an apartment and your air conditioner goes out or whatever, that should be able to be taken off your rent, you know, and it's all up to the, you know, the manager, the owner, whatever, all right.
Well, that wasn't going on down in Arizona back when I was, you know, down there. So they said, all right, well, we're gonna put a law saying that if your air conditioner breaks, they have to fix it or take the money off your rent, okay?
Well, the law that came with it, that was underneath it, that was caught right before this law was passed was if you pass this law, you're also giving the law, the law officers, the authority to come into anybody's apartment without a search warrant.
You know, so what I'm saying is, is we can add laws to, you know, something that's lawful and that would be, you know, and I'm just giving you something tangible that you can taste and stuff like that.
But if we were to have a theocracy and stuff like that, that would end up happening. We would end up having, adding more laws to the civic laws and moral laws. And that's where I think it would go, you know?
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, and another thing that the theonomic movement will say is, well, is God's law just? Because if it's just, then it shouldn't be applicable. Well, of course, God's law is just.
But listen, listener, listen to me, listener. You don't want justice. I'm gonna say that again. You don't want justice. You want mercy.
You want mercy. Of course, God's law is just. But listen, you don't want justice. You want mercy, plain and simple, period. You want mercy. And who am I to establish something that God has removed through the appearing of his son?
We are no longer under a tutor, right? Again, we are for general equity. But again, general equity can be dangerous. And now, so let's try to answer some questions. And we'll probably get on here.
Give me one second.
And do something else. So where was Matt Ford?
You want me to read the questions for you?
Yeah, that's fine.
Okay, so he had a question right here. Which, thank you again for the question. Do you believe the government should use the first table of the law to curb us?
Okay, so the first table of the law speaks about our duty to God. And because of that, I would say no, because of the separation of church and state, right? The church is not, I mean, the state is not to be getting involved into the church.
The church can get involved into the state, but the state is not to get involved into the church. If our state was, which we've seen this in church history, like if the idea of a one church system doesn't scare you, please go back and read church history, right?
Like it had the Church of England, right? The Church of England, the Geneva, like I'm a Calvinist, but there's a lot of messed up things taking place in Geneva at that time, right? A lot of Baptists, you know, throughout church history took part in what's called a third baptism.
You know, they held them underwater till they bubbled. And because they disagreed with principles of baptism, right, we don't want the church per se run in the state. Christians in the church can be a part of government, right?
Absolutely.
We're not saying that, please, if
And I would encourage that if that was on your heart.
Yeah, I got a councilman in my congregation, you know, please go run for whatever office you want, but don't put me, a pastor, in charge of the state, right? That's, those bridges are too big, but also don't put the president or the people inside the state in charge of what takes place in the church.
So
That's why they're not under a Pope.
So as far as the government is supposed to use.
The law for a curb,.
We see this when it comes to our neighbor, right? Don't murder. So that means you need to stop at stop signs. You need to stop at red lights. You see what I'm saying? So the, don't murder. I mean, like these are things that they're supposed to have for loving your neighbor.
Which is all a moral law. That's on everybody's mind, right?
Everybody knows that, right? So it's It's not Yeah, when it comes to
The government should be able to discuss and manage and navigate to come with moral good laws for a state or a country or for a local, whatever.
Yeah, like when it comes to the first habit of the law concerning, you know, like everyone, because I mentioned earlier that the transcendent law is written in the mind, the conscience of everyone. So when it comes to the first table of it, it's that everyone knows there's a God.
Creation declares His glory. Everyone knows there's a God. When I was witnessing someone and they mentioned other religions, and I said to him, I was like, listen, I under See, I said, here's the difference between me and you.
I understand why there is so many different religions. There's so many different religions because they know there's a God. And so they're just inventing things to worship because they know there's a God.
The problem is, is they don't know who God is. And I like, it was a car driving by. And I said, I know that there's a person driving that car. I know there is. I just don't know the person in the car, personally.
The only way to know the true God is through Jesus Christ. Jesus said it in his high personal prayer, John 17, three. Now this is eternal life that they may know you. He's praying to the Father, the only true God and Christ Jesus whom you have sent.
The only way to know the true God is through Jesus Christ. And so I understand why there's religions, other religions, because they know there's a God. Scripture declares his glory. They just don't know him because they don't know Jesus Christ.
And so it's that idea. The first tablet of the law, it's written in everyone's mind because they know there's a God. And they're attempting to worship this God. And we know that the second part of that tablet is in their mind, even if it's only whenever they're lied to, whenever they're stolen from, whenever they're cheated on.
So the second question also from Matt is also, do you believe all peoples everywhere are obligated to keep and follow the Bible?
And that's tricky, right? Like that question is loaded.
Can I answer that one? You used the word Bible.
Can I answer that one?
So in my opinion, according to the 1689, and I think according to God's word more importantly and more emphatically, when God gave, in specific, the judicial and ceremonial law to Israel, that was to Israel to follow.
I don't go sacrifice goats, sheep, cows. I don't do those things because that wasn't put over me. That's not a covenant of works that is over my head as it's Christ that has lived that life for me and has abolished those things now.
Are we obligated to keep the moral law? Absolutely. Are we obligated to follow the Bible in its sense of understanding what it's meaning and what the historical grammatical narratives are? Absolutely.
Are we to understand the context?
And I think by obeying those things, we would walk away saying that somebody in the other side of the world today is not under the judicial law of Israel that was over 2000 years ago. So in that way, I would say no, but in the way of us understanding what the word of God is saying, I would say yes.
And I would say this, if you really, really wanna keep the commands of God in general equity, Israel was told to bring the light to the nations. They were supposed to bring the God of Israel to the nations.
Jesus makes it clear that all authority in heaven and earth has been given to him. Go, therefore, make disciples, baptize, the name of... You know the spell. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
And behold, I am with you always to the end of this age. All right, so if you really wanna hold to general equity, it's not establishing law, which no one can keep. Everyone's going to die if you institute a mosaic law system.
But what is it? It's everyone preaching the gospel. I want to ask yourself this. If every single Christian in the world... Now, listen to me. If every single Christian in the world obeyed the Bible and went out and made disciples, every single Christian in the world did something.
You might be a mother homeschooling your kids, catechizing them. Listen, that is something. And I thank you for that, mothers. But one day your child is gonna grow up and not need you to catechize them.
And when that day comes, you have to find something else to do to fulfill the great commission. All right, every Christian is supposed to fulfill the great commission. If you are not fulfilling the great commission, you are not in any way obeying what Christ has told us to do.
Commanded.
That is how the world is won. It is put under the feet by the message of Jesus Christ that he lived the life that you and I could not live, took the punishment that you and I deserve because we broke God's law, he didn't.
He took the punishment we deserve, was buried, rose again on the third day and ascended to the Father. And he is on the throne of David right now, ruling in rain and putting all enemies under his feet through that message.
All right, if people wanna be real serious about keeping the command, it's that command to go and make disciples. You wanna see the world change? Every Christian needs to go and make disciples.
You know, and this is why the earth longs for the sons of God to be revealed.
Amen.
You know, and that's because, you know, when we go to Matthew five, we were in the Beatitudes right there, where it says, blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be known as sons of God. And as we bring this, you know, the olive branch, the gospel of peace, that we want people to be reconciled to God.
It's not through the law. It's through the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of peace, that we don't want people to be at war anymore with God. You know, and you know, the rainbow, the war bow, it's actually called in theology, is pointed upward, not downward.
You know, does that make sense? The rainbow, we're the ones that are at war with God. And he's not at war with us. That's why, you know, it's called the war bow, the rainbow. That's why the bow is facing up, all right?
It's not facing down. And, but this is why, you know, we're not coming with a hammer. We're coming with an olive branch.
And I also think, you know, in the same way that I believe Calvinism, and listen, I'm a Calvinist, but I believe that Calvinism can be dangerous outside of reformed theology. Because if all you have is Calvinism, all you have is a hammer and everything's a nail.
And that's your friends, your family, like everyone you meet, you're Calvinism, Calvinism, Calvinism. You're just hitting them with Calvinism.
A little bit of stick and a cage.
Right, right. Listen, that's dangerous. I lost so many friends with that because I stumbled upon Calvinism before I did reformed theology, covenant theology. Now, Calvinism in its rightful place, covenantalism, right, reformed theology.
If you have reformed theology, if you have a covenant theology, what you have is a tool belt, right? Where you can put your hammer in and pull out another tool, right?
Or a level.
And with a tool belt, like with tools, you're able to build something. But if all you have is a hammer and everything's a nail, like you're not doing anything, I see this theonomic movement the same way, all right?
I mean, like you're talking about a cage stage, but this theonomic movement needs to be put in the cage and toned down. Yes, we are supposed to hold to general equity, but where you're taking it, you're taking it to the same place as hyper-Calvinist people took Calvinism, right?
You're taking it someplace it does not need to be. Hoster your weapon, bruh. Like, calm down, eat a chili dog. I mean, let's figure this out. Let's open the Bible. Let's see how Jesus used general equity.
Let's see how Paul used general equity. Let's see what's really going to win the world. If you would turn to, I'm sorry, everyone, this has taken so long, but I wanna look at the idea of Moses one more time comparing to Jesus.
So Hebrews, I'm wanting to say,.
I wanna say it's in chapter three. That Christ is the better builder.
Yes, it's the house.
Yeah, I was actually gonna go there.
You're taking it from me.
You're taking it from me right now, I'm sorry. And after you're done, I'm gonna go somewhere else.
Three, four.
Please read it, please read it.
No, no, you're already there.
You're already going there.
I'm not really.
What is it?
Okay, let's look at verse, let's see.
Oh, three.
No, no, no, it's three, three total. It says, therefore, verse one, therefore, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priests of our confession, Jesus. So right here, he's calling us to consider Jesus.
You have these Hebrew Christians who are going back to the temple. They're going back to Moses. They're sacrificing animals. By doing so, they're crucifying, once again, the son of God to their own harm.
The sacrifice has already been made. There's no need for a sacrifice. He's saying, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Jesus Christ, who was faithful to him who appointed him. So Hebrews chapter two, we see the appointment that God sent Jesus, not angels.
He sent Jesus to hapataso, to subdue the world, the Greek word hapataso, who was faithful to him, who appointed him as Moses. So we're gonna see a comparison. As Moses also was faithful in his house. For he has been counted more worthy, more glory than Moses, in as much more as the builder of the house has over the house, has honor than the house.
For every builder is, for every house, excuse me, my dyslexia is kicking in. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Now, Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later.
But Christ was faithful as a son over his house, whose house we are. So we are his house, if you hold fast to the confidence of, and boast in our hope. So it's saying that Moses is no longer a servant in the house.
The law came through Moses. Moses was faithful delivering the law, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. The law was a tutor only until the fullness of time when Christ comes and we can believe in him by faith.
So if you're looking at it, Moses was building a house. Jesus, I mean, Jesus is a greater builder. So, Brayden, you can probably correct me if I'm wrong here. In the Baptist reform theology, it speaks about, if you're looking at this from a covenantal perspective, so the Jews, if you can imagine a house being built and you have the scaffold team that's going around it, Moses and the law, the Jews, were the scaffold workers building the house, right?
The house is the church, right? Jesus is the son of God comes, enters the house. You and I, by faith alone in Christ, we are the house. The Jews, the scaffold workers, can step down from the scaffolds and enter into the house.
They can become a part of the new covenant by faith alone in Jesus Christ. That means they leave that scaffolding, like they take the scaffolding down, this wall, this thing that was a part of the system building the house, Moses.
They picture Moses being the scaffolding, the Jews being the scaffold workers. They have to remove the scaffolding and they can enter into the house. This is kind of how the Baptist reform, Baptist covenant theology sees things.
And so the house is the church. The scaffolding, I would say, would be the law of Moses. The Jews were building this house. They can step down from the scaffolding, remove it and enter into the house by faith in Christ, not by the law.
You don't bring the scaffolding in the house. Again, I wanna say this again, we're not talking about the transcendent law. We're only talking about the civil ceremonial, which ended in 70 AD.
Yeah, that scaffolding comes down, right? It comes down. It's not meant to be inside the building in that sense. It comes away from the building because what was the scaffolding for? It was for the building of that building.
Now it was for the construction project, right? And when the construction is finished, AKA when the Christ, the seed, the promise has come, that scaffolding gets taken down. And in the term of general equity, you would then take the principles of what was done to construct the building and apply it inside when remodels need to be done, such as a homosexual inside the church and you need to take him out.
But it's only for inside the church. Something that I was thinking of, and just listening to you guys talk about this, this came to my mind. And I wanna run it by you guys. I want you to think about this too and tell me if I'm right, wrong, or indifferent, or if you need to think about it more.
But the reason I was going to Hebrews chapter three was actually because of exactly what you're saying and to expand upon it. So Hebrews chapter three says that Christ is the builder of this building, the church that we are buying.
We are told several times in different places that we are being built upon the foundation of Christ. We see that in Matthew 16, 18. You would see that in first Corinthians chapter three. You see that we are the house of the living God or the temple we've been, we're being built into the temple of the living God in Ephesians chapter two, verse 22, I believe it is.
And not only that, but we actually came very close to reading another important part in first Corinthians chapter six, where Habs read that the effeminate, the adulterers, the homosexuals, all these capital punishments will not inherit the kingdom of God, but you were washed, you were justified, you were sanctified.
Right after that, it talks a little bit about dietary things. And it says that you don't, you know that your body is a temple, a dwelling place for the Holy Spirit. And this is speaking to the church.
When you see Christ, and correct me if I'm wrong in this, thinking about this, when we think about the Old Testament being pictures scaffolding, pointing towards the church, the new, the eschatological true Israel, where do you see Jesus actually starting to punish somebody, starting to actually put physical punishments upon somebody that's violating law?
You see it in the temple. When Christ, after the triumphal entry takes place, he comes in and there's these people that are selling things in the house of God, which what is the house of God? It says Christ tabernacled with us.
Christ is the temple that if his body is destroyed in three days, he'll rise it up again. Christ is the temple and he died on the behalf of all that are in the church, all the church building itself. He is the builder of that church, the builder of the better temple, the new Jerusalem.
Christ, I think is going in that because he's pointing to what he is going to do in the church and the church is the temple. And so Christ isn't casting people out in the world. In Matthew 21, he's casting people out of his temple.
And that's where the punishment ends as they leave the temple, right? And so I think as the church goes, when general equity is applied, is that it's for the house of God, the people of God, the ones that are the temple of God.
And we are to follow Christ's example and cast those out in the temple.
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I agree. Yeah, it's the idea. Again, like what I gave was an analogy. Could it have been flawed in some areas? Yeah, of course, absolutely. But it's just a way to understand that we're not saying it's a one-on-one correlation.
Like it's not the same thing. The old covenant cannot enter into the new covenant. The new covenant is not a republication of the old covenant.
It's not a new administration.
It's not a new administration. It's the new covenant, right? The new covenant is the covenant of grace. The covenant of grace is the new covenant. That means that anything from the old covenant does not enter into the new covenant.
The scaffolding has to be left outside. The people can enter in, not by works righteousness, but by faith alone in Jesus Christ. The old covenant men and women, such as Abraham, David, they believe in the promise of an offspring would come.
That promise is Christ. They were able to enter into that covenant, I mean, to the covenant of grace. They're saved under the covenant of grace by believing in the promise. The promise was fulfilled in the new covenant.
That's why circumcision isn't brought into the new covenant, right? So if you wanna establish law, mosaic law, where you're saying, well, well, circumcision was given to Abraham. The 10 commandments was given to Adam.
Hold up now. Let's, it's transcended. It's transcended. Moses used circumcision. If someone wasn't circumcised, you think they were allowed to have fellowship within the tribes? No. If we wanna bring, if you wanna be really, really general equity, well, then you would say that it's baptism, right?
And next thing you know, you're baptizing all your kids and you can't be a Baptist. Listen, 1689 Baptist people, we really need to think about what it is that we're saying we believe.
We got to do, I'm not, we have to do away with Moses in concern with the civil and ceremonial, what that represented. We, it was, it's finished. It was old covenant, new covenant, transcended law. The 10 words are still on all people.
We are in Christ. Moses brought the law, but Jesus brought grace and truth. The law doesn't enter into grace and truth.
So I have a question for you guys. Do you think that this, and the reason I'm asking this is because Habs, you were reading a little bit from the West minister earlier. Do you think that this, because in that Presbyterian mindset, that that's one covenant under different administrations, the theonomic movement that we have today and what we're discussing right now, do you think that's from a conflation of this same covenant under different administrations, but they are starting to remove under different administrations?
They're just making it one covenant period.
That's what it looks like. I mean, I've seen the Hebrew roots go from one extreme to the other. It seems like every movement that falls into this theonomic, society or whatnot, whether it's a local state or federal, I'm just looking around the country and stuff.
It really just, it's a conflation of the old and new covenant is what it is. And that's what it is. I mean, of course we believe in law. I mean, we got good laws like, don't drink and drive. I mean, these are good laws that glorify God, but when we're trying to take it, something that was only applied to Israel and take in these ceremonial, and look, what about Sabbath?
Sabbath, if you broke Sabbath, you can be stoned to death. I mean, that was a civil law, by the way. That wasn't just ceremonial.
I guess the people in the theonomic movement are antinomian. Like, it just doesn't make sense. I like consistency, right?
We don't get a cherry pick, you know?
Yeah, you can't cherry pick. So when it comes to the Presbyterians, it only works in their system. I definitely see how it works in their system. It does not work
Yeah, it does not work in a Reformed Baptist system.
In a Reformed Baptist system. Now, there's some Reformed Baptists that believe that the covenant of grace started in Genesis 3 .15.
You don't remember that?
Genesis 3 .15 only gives a promise, right? I challenge anyone to show me in Genesis 3 .15 where there was an establishment made of the covenant of grace. A promise of the covenant of grace is made. The fulfillment would be when the serpent bruises, when the offspring of the woman bruises the head of the serpent while only bruising its heel.
When that takes place, that is the inauguration of the covenant of grace. Not until, not until. So that means that the new covenant is the covenant of grace. If the covenant of grace was inaugurated at Genesis 3 .15, and when the new covenant starts, and the new covenant is a part of the... I mean, the covenant of grace is a part of the new covenant, then everything that was hanging on to the covenant of grace can enter into the new covenant.
And that would be the law of Moses.
Yeah, and you know, again, I mean, you just said it perfectly. We've had this talk before that, you know, when it comes to a theonomy, it only works in a Presbyterian government. You know, it only, and their type of church government,.
And everything And most Presbyterians deny this movement.
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I know my brother, he's, you know, you know, Seth. You know, he's two kingdom. Yeah, very inconsistent. No, he, no, but he, you know, he's two kingdom. He's Escondido, you know, so, but you know, that's why Bonson, I believe was, wasn't he kicked out of Westminster for that?
Yeah, well, Bonson is the first one that came up with that, with the word, pronomium. He's the first one that wrote about being a pronomium, pro-law.
I'm actually on a Facebook site called Pronomium, and no, no, no, no, no, it's because there's, no, no, no, it's, I go in there and I have discussions with Hebrew Roots people, and off of a certain show, you know, like I like to have little discussions with these guys, but, you know, especially when it comes to like the land promises, you know, like, you know, that's what I'd like to get into with them, you know, like, this doesn't apply to us, you know, that applied to them, you know, and that if you keep my commandments, you get to inherit the land, you know, and that type of stuff.
But again, in the last few years, in the last few years, you got Calvinistic Presbyterians and Baptists that are now part of the pronomium group.
Plain Reformed theology. And won't eat a hot dog unless it's beef.
Like, come on, people.
I only like beef hot dogs.
Well, I mean, I
Go and eat. Like, come on, guys.
Go kill and eat.
I like my steak a little rare,.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't really
That's fair, amen.
I like shrimp. I like shrimp and lobster.
I don't know about all that.
Oh, man, I love seafood, man. But hey, guys, I gotta go, man. I'm gonna fall asleep.
Hey, let me read one more Bible verse with you.
Before you guys take off.
Psalm 1, which I just appreciate you guys because we do love God's law. Psalm 1, how blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked nor stand in the way of sinners nor sit in the seat of scoffers.
But his delight is in the law of Yahweh. And in his law, he meditates day and night. He and he will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, which yield its fruit in its season and its leaf does not wither.
And in whatever he does, he prospers. The wicked are not so, but they're like chaff, which the wind drives away. Therefore, the wicked will not rise in the judgment nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For Yahweh knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.
Yeah, that's like Psalm 92.
Ooh.
For those that are finding the house of the Lord. Right now, we're reading through Psalm 119 and we're singing through Psalm 119. So for, I don't know, I think it's been six weeks now. I love God's law.
And I think it has to be taught correctly.
Right?
And used lawfully.
It has to be used lawfully. We have to use the three uses of the law and we got to understand the three divisions of the law. And we do not want to mix law with gospel. We got to make sure that the law is not mixed with the gospel.
If you mentioned law with gospel, it better be that Jesus kept the law in your stead. Or we got a problem.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I would encourage you to think about what does Paul call all these things that he followed when he was Jewish? He calls them dung, considers them dung, rubbish for the surpassing value of knowing his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Scoop-a-la.
Dog crap, literally.
There's definitely a hundred more verses we can go through. And I knew that we wouldn't have any time, any kind of way to be able to actually walk this out.
Why don't next week we go about in the confessions on the civil magistrates.
What chapter?
In the confessions.
In the Westminster and stuff.
Well, Westminster and London Baptist.
Yeah, let's do it.
Westminster really opens it up a lot more, but on the civil magistrates and what exactly is their role?
Amen. Amen.
Apart from the church. Apart from the church.
And then we can get into Romans 13. And I know like a lot of people, they used to scream Romans 13 from the rooftop, but then this whole COVID war started. And then we saw the government abuse their authority, but that still doesn't mean that, just because the government abused their authority doesn't mean that Romans 13 still doesn't apply to us.
I mean, in certain ways, if they're telling the church not to meet, then we are to rebel against that.
Meet.
And meet because that's a clear commandment given to us by God. If the government tells you not to evangelize, well, Jesus says that we are to go and make disciples. So we are to do that. But if the government puts up a red light in our,.
The sword is given to them, right? So as much as I don't like the whole prison system, so let's say that I'm against the prison system. I'm not gonna say that I am or I'm not, but let's say that I don't believe that people should go to prison and spend all this time there.
Well, it doesn't matter what I think or say, because I'm not the one establishing that law. We're under their system of how things done, right?
Now can I encourage Christians to get into politics and stuff like that? Yeah, but listen, not enough Christians are gonna get into politics if what I said earlier doesn't take place. Every Christian needs to be doing something to fulfill the great commission.
If you're not doing something to fulfill the great commission, listen, you are living in total disobedience to the word of God. That is a clear commandment given to us by Jesus himself. I don't care what laws you think you're keeping.
If you're not keeping that one, you are in clear disobedience to the word of God. And I call you to repent and trust in Jesus Christ, get some gospel tracks, find you some kind of a place to open and preach or a place where you can go and evangelize.
Knock on some doors. Do what you can do with what God has given you. Start a Bible study, whatever it is. Fulfill the great commission.
I don't care if you don't eat hot dogs.
I'm like a wit to me.
Did you see Brandon? Did you see, I mean, Braden, Brandon. Braden sniffing his Bible over there.
Yeah, I see.
He's an addict. He's an addict.
Well, anything else you guys wanna say, we'll close it up here and we'll pick up again next week and do some more ranting.
Ranting and raving. Yeah.
Thank you guys for answering a lot of questions for me. I appreciate you guys.
And if you're a theonomist, you're hearing this and you're a theonomist and you wanna come on live with us, reach out to me. Let's talk. As long as you can be civil. I mean, please speak your mind, but be civil.
Civil?
We're all brothers here.
Civil? Yeah.
It's my country's street slang. We're all brothers here.
Yeah. Yeah, you know.
All three of us debate each other, but we love each other.
Yeah, you know, it's just one of those things. It's a good discussion to have, you know, with the other brothers and stuff like that, but we shouldn't divide over, you know, it's just nonsense to divide over this type of stuff.
But it's good to discuss.
I mean, if you take it to its logical conclusion, pronomianism, I don't think that you can have fellowship within the same body if someone falls into pronomianism.
Well, yeah. Yeah.
And that's where it's leading. It's just like the Baptists and the Presbyterians. We love each other. We consider each other as brothers, but there is no true fellowship. Like when it comes to serving in a church together, you can't have a Presbyterian elder and a Reformed Baptist elder serving in the same church.
Like that doesn't work.
Well, you can speak at each other's churches.
Yeah, of course. I would have a Presbyterian to speak at my church.
I've got some Presbyterian friends that said that I could speak at theirs, but as far as,.
We both come to the same table.
Well, see.
Well, no, no, no. I take that. No, I didn't say paedo-comedian.
I didn't say that.
Yeah, or with me, I believe that you have to be baptized as a believer. Now, I'm not gonna kick the cracker out your hand. I could, because I know martial arts, but I do give a warning. If you haven't received Christ by faith.
And have not been baptized.
In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, it's not, the table's not for you.
I was thinking that you're talking,.
I wasn't taking that as the Lord's table. I was thinking that you're talking about.
Just like an equal seat at the table of Christianity.
That's what I was thinking.
See, when you say table to me, I'm thinking that the Lord's supper.
That's what I would say.
Yeah, I mean, like, again, if you've been baptized by immersion, you're welcome at the table. But if not, I still consider you my brother,.
But you need to be baptized.
Anyways, I love you guys.
If you're ever in Tallahamma, Tennessee, please come check out the Covenant Reform Baptist Church.
Brayden?
If you're in Hagerman, Idaho,.
Come to Hagerman Valley Baptist Church. It's 390 North State Street. See you this Sunday.
We'll be in Haggai chapter two.
Don't come to Southern California.
Come on, Idaho.
Don't.
But you know what? Glorify God and enjoy him forever. Hallelujah.
