Computer Problems and Some Lighthearted Fun

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James White.

And good morning. Good afternoon. Whatever time it is for you. Welcome to the dividing line. We just barely made it today. I'm very thankful for our very Tenuous Backup solution of Online instant Fix stuff that we have set up.

We tried to start the pre feed. It wasn't working. And so you go and channel and you ask someone in Canada To see if the fellow who runs the server in Nova Scotia is online on another surface and you get a message through that way.

And red alert red alert red alert shields up did did CBS start this way. It's just Hilarious I tell you but Pete to the rescue and the famous Nova Scotian who is a superhero in his own mind Came flying.

Oh Man we need to we'd have angel Draw a picture of Pete as a superhero server fixer guy or something like that because that's the only reason that you're hearing my sonorous tones this morning. Yes, because Pete came to the rescue and we can't guarantee that it's gonna continue working.

However, I Guess it could stop right now for all we know. But hey, you know, that's that's how we do stuff around here. People Wonder why we we don't you know do a lot of money begging and stuff and it's not because we're rich or anything.

It's just because this is sort of how we do things. It's funny anyway. Before the program began. I was playing some music and well some stuff. And I thought you know what We normally do so much really serious stuff around here.

That mmm. That I'd like to spend a few minutes at the beginning of the program today. We're doing something a little fun. It's been a long time since I played on the air. We have played them on the air in the past.

It's just been a while since we did so The the tunes of my good friend Chris Arnzen a number of years ago I would say what was this about six years ago now, I think We were he and I were at a youth retreat and They would have a talent show.

And of course you had to come up with skits and things like that well Chris Arnzen is a Comic genius that is the only way to describe Chris really if he was in the the secular field He'd be in Vegas, you know, he'd be on Letterman and Leno and the the guy is just absolutely positively hilarious and Some of you have seen some of his comedy routines the beginning of the great debate series Island and So for the That particular talent show He and I first we did a song and I have it but I'm not gonna play He and I did a song a very short little song about eschatology, which we'll we'll never see the light of day.

But anyway, then I sat down and lo and behold he had two songs to sing and We Just about died. He he takes these old Songs these old tunes he goes and gets the the karaoke tapes and then he writes new words and What he did later on since we just everybody was begging to have those songs is a few weeks later he recorded them in a Radio studio and Mixed them together.

And so if you've got you know Total recorder or something and you want to yeah the reformed Paul Shanklin That's that's a good way of putting if you want to record it or something. You better fire up total recorder.

Because I'm gonna play for you what what Chris produced and he starts off with an introduction and then he he provides these these two wonderful songs, so I'll do is I'll play those two with the introductions and Then I'll play The actual recording of the first time he performed one of the two and you can hear what it did to all of us.

It's just absolutely hilarious. So something unusual on the dividing line today. Here is that Oh and Chris named himself He called himself party hardy Marty Luther and the protesters. So that's that's what's on the the tape or the CD that he sent to me is party Marty Luther and the protesters and so here's party hardy Marty Luther and the protesters and You can figure out the rest of it from here.

During the 16th century the Church of Rome reached its height of power as well as its depths of debauchery greed and corruption. One of the most vile and greedy puppets of the papal throne was a member of the Dominican Holy Order named Johann Tetzel.

Tetzel sold indulgences to the spiritually ignorant uns enslaved laity. Warning them that this was a necessary means to purchase the souls of their deceased loved ones out from the torments of purgatory a Limerick became popular in that day's advent when a coin in Tetzel's copper rings a soul from purgatory springs.

This abuse of papal power through pilfering the poor pious and peasant people did not go unnoticed by a young German Augustinian monk who was once one of Rome's most faithful and loyal subjects outraged by the level of greed and wickedness as the church sank to.

This monk nailed his protest to the practice of indulgence selling to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg. Hoping to spark a debate with the intelligentsia of Rome. The hammer blows as these 95 theses were nailed to the church door were like cannon fire heard around the world.

And ignited the blaze of a holy inferno that is still burning brightly today. This holy inferno is the Protestant Reformation. That Augustinian monk who ignited it was me.

Hello, I'm Marty Lucer and this is my story. Oh, yeah I'm the great.

Reformer. Reforming the churches of what I'm known for. I Made my protest Before Swingy and all of the rest Nailed it up to the Wittenberg door. Oh, yeah, I'm the great Reformer. Reforming the church was my goal.

But the Pope threw me out like some bad sauerkraut. Flushed me right down his Vatican pole. I Would not indulge that dirtbag. Johann Tetzel. So they threatened to twist my spine up just like a pretzel.

Yeah, I'm the great Reformer. The Pope put a price on my head. But without on the run. I Married a nun. Sure beats living with guys who bake bread. That's very bold guys there. And wolves baking bread.

My lady Sweet Katie gave up her old habit. She once dressed like a penguin now multiplies like a rabbit. Yeah, I'm the great Reformer. I Turned Texas Church upside down. Tell those greaseballs that Trent centuries after they came and went.

I'll be dead, but that won't keep me down. They wanted to slice me and dice me and feed me to the papal palace. Puppy dogs. But I'll bet you that in the 21st century that I'm. Here's one for the big man.

In the big hat in the big chair in Rome. The Pope I.

Desecrate this to him. Don't push me around like your papal punks. You don't own me.

I'm no longer one of your fear-billied monks. You don't own me I'm not just another one of your toys.

You don't own me. I.

Won't ring your bell just like your altar boys. What to say? Even to near me how to play the solar spectra is my day. So love right here and all of the day. Christmas is my king So I will bow to kiss your ring.

Sorry, the note that I never your dog You don't own me. I'm not taking your paper school anymore. Even to me Tell me how to play the solar spectra is my day. So love right here and all of the day So love right here and all of the day.

So love right here and all of the day. Kiss your ring. I might be a stone here But covered with snow. But I know when I dive into heaven I'll go. That's why I'm a Christian warrior. To defend Solideo.

You don't own me.

You don't own me You don't own me You don't own me You don't own me notepad. And you've got a already people are laughing because we've been doing funny things and people in channel been saying hey you need to play the one that you and Chris did and and since I have complete control of what I played no and but we had just done that so everybody's already tackling as it is.

And so this was actually the second the second song we just heard. But here's here's what sound like when it was. You know the the studio versions versus the live versions. There's always a you know a big difference between the two.

Here is the live version of you don't own me. This is from Tuscarora Conference Center in Pennsylvania. I guess that I think this was about 1999 maybe 98 somewhere around in there I forget which one it is.

And here's here's here's how it sounded when it was when it was first performed. Yes fun at at Tuscarora that was somebody in channel was saying yeah it's too bad there aren't more reform Baptist. The sense of humor.

Now please please please do not flood us with requests. We've already had our one. Okay. Well I am saving a comment I saw in channel and sending it to Chris and that'll be the last time that person ever gets to talk with Chris Irons.

And because that's that that's that that that's all there is to it anyway. There's there's a party hardy marty luther and the protesters from Tuscarora 1998 1999 somewhere around in there. I don't remember exactly what it was.

And no my song with my song with Chris was not nearly as good as his was because we didn't have a sound we didn't have a background track. He had spent a lot of time on those and in fact I just realized he told me he wrote those one night while I was preaching and but he wasn't there because it had been snowing.

That's that stuff that falls out of sky live in Phoenix and have to explain to people. But it had been snowing and he couldn't get to where I was speaking and so he didn't make it and so he spent the night writing writing those two songs.

And that's lots of fun. 877 -753 -3341. For those who say they're going. I can't believe that I tuned in to listen to this. But hey you know what you know what we'll actually get complaints. We really will.

Well we will. We will get complaints about the fact that we did something funny. Just like get complaints when angel draws a cartoon. And if you want to complain all I can say is get a sense of humor.

You will live longer and sunset will be prettier and sunrises will be prettier and and life will be. Your face will not crack if you smile. Really honestly it won't. Some of you seem to think that it will if you smile there's there's something unbiblical about smiling.

You know now there's there's people like that. Mmm. So anyway 877 -753 -3341. Believe it or not despite my best efforts we actually are these folks listening. I mean you know yes I want to be the first phone caller immediately after party hardy marty luther and the protesters at the transition here is going to be difficult but I am your professional broadcast broadcast professional professional broadcast professional.

And we will we will make the transition successfully. I will simply have to ask Charles up in Utah to work with me here Charles. We need to work together to make this. Do you sing or dance or anything.

Charles. Oh it is. It's hard not to be. Isn't it. I was swept away. In fact I'm urinating blood right now. It was it was much more than I wanted to know completely actually good old good old Chris has I gotta tell I don't know if you ever heard it now is it on them.

Hey riches is is Chris's introduction to the first debate on the tape. I don't remember because that was that was before we started doing them but the first debate we did on Long Island. We have 500 people in this ballroom and you've got Catholics and you've got Protestants and you can it's really charged atmosphere and you can sort of tell that things were I don't know it's first time we'd ever done this and everybody I was a little bit worried.

Chris was really worried. So he gets up there and we're starting half an hour late and he's talking about how so many people to pose what we were doing all this stuff and and so finally he says in fact let me read you an example of just how much people have opposed what we're doing.

And he starts into this letter and I'm going to tell you this letter was talking about how I hope that you you you spiritual Neanderthals crawl back into the caves from which you crawled out of your you're bringing dissension and it's just just ripped and shredded and I was everybody in the audience is just sitting there with their mouths hanging open and their eyes wide.

I can remember exactly what it was. And he gets the second page and it says something about how the world would be better when people like you are simply wiped off the the face the earth and all the rest of stuff.

And then he says and PS please pick up a gallon of milk on your way home signed your wife and it was there was silence and then the place absolutely fell apart just erupted in laughter. We realized this was actually one big long huge joke and we he got us all everybody nobody saw it coming.

Everybody was blindsided and it sort of helped because it sort of got rid of some of the tension beforehand a little bit because you could just tell there was a lot of it. So now most people come they don't come to listen to the debates anymore they they just come for for Chris's dialogue.

So anyway that's the story of how that all started so but.

That's not why you're calling is it. Well I do have an idea since you just said that. Yeah. What's that. Maybe the next time you're in a hostile Catholic environment in the east just let him break out that song on the crowd.

Yeah.

See how that goes. Um you know we've pondered that we thought about that and and we sort of decided against it. Yeah well yeah he did take some liberties I.

Think I mean the text seems to come directly from bondage of the will is.

Very loose but he wasn't quite as nasty to be with you as Luther was a number of times. So anyway you're the I think we've transitioned well enough. No one.

Remembers what you're talking about. Good good. Okay. Well I want to ask you something about this. Something I read on your site. Yes and that I I don't think most people know about. Yes. I wish I was oblivious to it until one person suddenly spiraled headlong into it.

Hyper-Calvinism and the Mark Carpenter Cult

Mark Carpenter cult. However many of them.

There might be and there can't be many. I really honestly can't imagine that they they would get a very large hall if they're all to visit together. No I mean.

There's you know narrow is the way and then there's narrow is the way a tight rope is the way. I mean these. So I so and it's and really you know we make a lot of jokes about it but but it's really sad it is for those few people I mean at least I'm judging by this one guy that's usually clear thinking I mean solid minded people.

And and that. And in a sense he likes him. He likes people who have prepared their month who have been trained already on Calvin and the whole tradition and Edwards. And this was the kind of guy who read all that stuff.

Mm-hmm. He ate it up he loved it and he was very very committed to the purity of the message. And was and was an evangelist by the way a personal evangelist. I mean very old and outspoken not hyper ish in that sense because he really I mean led people to cry.

Then then the deeper he goes suddenly finds himself carrying extreme and and as you pointed out buddy but himself yeah just about I don't know who makes it taken in and now to talk with him. Obviously I'm a complete in points you know that yeah the extra to this guy now believes he was never truly a believer until he understood carpenters view.

Hmm even all those years he's been evangelizing people reading Calvin knowing reading all of Spurgeon he he didn't know the true gospel. And because at that point he supposed that there were some people they called universal he supposed at that time that some of those people might actually be saved.

Mm-hmm. Therefore he was lost let me know he's even taught told people that he led to Christ that.

They are lost. You're unregenerate. Oh my it's really sick. Oh my. Well for those I should have mentioned this earlier but for those who don't keep up with the blog I I I didn't receive it but in fact interesting enough it was Chris Arnson who received it received this incentive.

Me Chris Arnson received an email from Mark Carpenter. He is the originator the person running outside the camp org I believe is the is the URL and he is a very very well-known hyper Calvinist. He is one of those folks and and his brand of hyper Calvinism is is primarily marked by the idea that if you believe that a a quote-unquote Armenian and and that's a very broad utilization that's a very broad term for him.

If you believe a person who does not believe in particular redemption specifically believe in particular redemption can be saved and you yourself are not safe. I mean it's it's not just that the email basically said that the debate between myself and Bill Rutland on the subject of can a non-christian enter into heaven is actually to be a debate between two non-christians that is Bill Rutland and myself.

I am NOT a Christian. Even though I hold to all five points of of Calvinism and we're getting an odd odd tone between us here. Will Charles let me just mention this real quickly we'll get back to your question because it's a man decayed.

We're gonna lose you can lose your phone. I'm not sure anyway he's saying that we're not. I'm not a believer. Because of this and I responded on the blog. If you don't follow that you might want to take a look at it.

I I really really really dislike hyper Calvinism. I I dislike having to respond to the constant accusation that anyone who is a Calvinist at all is a hyper Calvinist. That is the that is the standard argumentation is utilized by people and but I detested because here are people who should know better.

I mean you're telling me this fellow was very very well read. He must have heard warnings about this stuff he had read balanced material on it and yet they go off into this stuff and it really leaves you wondering what what was missing in the foundation that that start that would lead to that.

Yeah it's really sad.

Because you're exactly right it was a shocker it was it was you. For a lot of people it was stunning that somebody could be taken in and I think that's why there is a kind of you know I know it sounded maybe the words over you fix people off but there's a cultic a person in and make you know any they he likes to use these really lame syllogism.

Mm-hmm you know you know you you.

Believe that you know you've seen these right. Well a carpenter. Include one is letter. A really lame syllogism there where you know. Well if this is part of the gospel and this person doesn't believe this therefore.

And it's always. It's never overly lengthy. It's nice and short and straight to the point in black.

And white. Exactly. And and of course you know this guy that's his response to everybody. And you know and and that that tight to really get it this guy's actually contemplated moving at carpenters actually told this guy to disassociate with his family disassociate with everybody and and and possibly has suggested him to move out to where he and his family live now in Vermont that that sort of even has a strange wilderness compound.

Yeah you know you you know you may actually know something about this because because I know that you are you know the guy out here at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Jaywall is what we call him actually.

Uh-huh the J wall. And he he's familiar with the situation. Oh I see. Yeah you know he knows this particular. Mm-hmm. And.

It's sad in Utah. I mean we need we need all the solid people. Exactly here's a.

Guy who was a who was an evangelist to Mormons I mean he was in fact he was a plague I mean not a bit. No unless you want to count standing kind of behind a safe wall and lobbying condemnation at fellow Christians including his own family his own flesh and blood.

Who is this guy. Nobody seems to talk about this. And I think through your site and talking about it we got we got to let people know all this thing what it is totally jacked up. Well you know it's.

Funny I I I had someone comment to me that they had never ever heard of hyper-Calvinism and had never met a hyper-Calvinist and didn't think they actually existed. And I'm like well okay it let let's let's be let's be honest they are not the largest group on the planet but in in reality they are there and they unfortunately cause problems to those of us who are seeking to properly present a balanced view of the doctrines of grace.

So thank you very much for your call sir and for helping me Charles to transition out of the Chris Arnzen music and we're gonna go ahead and take our break a little bit late but come back and have a postmodern emergent church commentary to read and then maybe if we don't get any more phone calls we'll be looking some more the Patterson sermon.

All depends. 877 -753 -3341.

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You can order your copy of James White's book the King James only controversy by going to our website at.

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Justifies by dr. James White. Get your copy today at AOMN .org and welcome back.

To the dividing line trying to move back into the world of sanity now and I tell you I hope you noticed the our beautiful Bahamas theme Alaskan cruise and please keep something in mind today is the 22nd of February the prices go up on the 1st of March.

Now please remember something. This is one of those horrible months where your bills come early and you have less time to pay for them. You know I mean you know let's at least try to be fair and note that I think we had to just change the whole calendar and make every month the same amount.

But as it may that means I if I'm counting correctly six days including today that's not a lot of time and therefore we really really really really really really need to get everybody who's been thinking about it on board ASAP.

Because I guess our ship is filling up quickly and unlike some of our past situations where we are able to you know squeeze folks in and things like that there's there's gonna be limits on on this trip as to what we're gonna be able to do and how many people we can squeeze in and the rates and all that stuff.

And so if you've been thinking about it now is the time to get it taken care of. Just yeah we we have the only cabins left the rest of ship is sold out. So it's a it's an incredibly popular cruise beautiful itinerary and so if you get on the ship you got to go through us.

So in the next six days before the prices go up up up.

So that's that's going on. And you need to remember when you think about Alaska. Okay. You never say it the same way. Yeah yeah. You need to say Alaska. We'll never say it again the same way. No never the same again.

No you can't say you can't say it fast either. You have to sit slow and with a lot of breath. Real breathy.

Alaska that's all I had. We and we love Mike to you. Marty talks to me so you're.

Gonna pay for this. Yeah I know you have to admit it's probably the only cruise commercial you've ever heard Alaska and you feel like you're gonna get to go.

Sunning on the beach. I I want to be a mouse in the corner. When yourself. I'm so dead. Oh you are so dead you are. You are in a historical novelty a historical artifact right. Then did you see what Centurion just said.

Channel. Yeah that was almost identical that was rigged. I can't do it I just can't do it. I would have to have a little cuddly teddy bear out of me named Alaska to be able to do it that way. That's the only way I could do it and I don't have one so it just.

Doesn't work for me you know but it's gonna be a fantastic cruise. Me don't.

Except if you come up with missing we know who to look for today in the Gulf of Alaska. Michael Fallon was found in a lifeboat trying to get away from the ship after rich Beers went missing. Yes indeed.

Mm-hmm. You bail out. Thanks a lot. Hmm. It's just one of those days. It's a beautiful day. It must be. What it is. We Phoenicians aren't used to this amount of oxygen in the air because normally this time of year the air just gets horrible it gets real stagnant.

We get this inversion layer thing and we look like he's on the phone. We get this inversion layer thing and you can't see you know for a mile or anything like that but we have gotten so much rain that it is absolutely unbelievable.

The air is clean and clear. What he wants to go on the air now does he want to defend himself. Is that. Is that what it is. Is that what this is all about. Mm-hmm. So so this is. This is actually a call huh.

It's Mike from.

Florida. Yeah yeah. I'm going to bring a little bit of marketing to the table you.

Get a few you know. What are you gonna do. We love you Mike. Really we. I never would have done that honestly you know until I could not open the door I thought of it.

But I just voice that I used to to get croissant and then bored oh this is.

Gonna be a sweet debate. Did they. Did they. Did they. Teach that to you. It was.

It where'd you go. FSU. No the University of Florida but that's mainly for my.

Catholic upbringing. Oh I thought it was maybe some of the voice training that.

You received there. No that was usually the voice training that we receive when we were in a regular confession. Ah okay guys well we've pretty well blown this.

One right out of the water. What do you think. In fact I think Pete's price that they're going. I shouldn't have fixed that sir. Well Mike. Mike is there anything else you wanted to say about this before.

Before the crew. About the crew. Rich and.

James we're not kidding the ship is completely sold out except for our our cruise cabins that we have. Hmm. So the only way you can book on the cruise right now is to go through Alpha and Omega ministries right.

So if you wanted to go on this ship during that time that's the way to get on and you know you've got to think about that. This is not just Alaska but you're getting all the apologetics as well as the debate on the ship which is something that a lot.

Of people are looking forward to. I've been telling folks about it but you know how people are. They're procrastinators and you know this pretty much means that.

We have I think basically 53 cabins left and that's it. Wow. So as soon as.

Those are sold we're done. Yep. Well that. Well you'll put you'll put together a list for the inevitable cancellations but that's putting your entire thing on on the basis of somebody else allowing you to go basically correct.

And I mean we can always bump you off or rich or whatever. Oh well yeah sure you.

Know if you. Hey if you want. Now I'd like to know exactly what do you mean. By bump.

Off. Okay let's do something something oddly strange like something serious here for a second. Mm-hmm. I I have this little RSS reader program and one of the blogs that I sort of monitor is a emergent church blog and I was reading a new post.

One of the problems with with this RSS reader is it'll frequently pick up old posts as if they're new. That's the only drawback I found to it so far. But it's free and that's a. That's a good thing. But this is from Bob Robinson and it was posted this morning about two hours ago.

So we are actually right up to the right up to the moment here apologetics and theology both need to change is the topic. Apologetics is the ready defense that we need to be prepared to give anyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you with gentleness and respect first Peter 315.

In the past 100 years this is taking the form of using reason and philosophy and argument to try to help people with modern enlightenment sensibilities to get past their mental stumbling blocks in their way to meeting Jesus Christ.

I think since we are entering a postmodern age that such techniques need to be replaced with a more embodied apologetic displayed in the way we live and love and worship. Theology is our in-house debates discussions about things we are trying to understand the Bible things like the nature of God the end times Calvinism versus Arminianism the meaning of the atonement.

These are not concerns of those outside the faith their concerns of those already in. It is a noble pursuit to seek to more purely understand God which is what theology is supposed to be. So here's what needs to change.

Our apologetics needs change from a purely reasoned argument though we cannot ditch reason and become unthinking toward an embodied incarnational apologetic. We still need to know how to answer people's questions.

But before that we need to show them that God is real and that living in Christ's kingdom is a superior life that is attractive to the outsider. And our theology needs to change as well from purely academic exercise though we must always love God with our minds toward an embodied incarnational theology that takes those intellectual concepts and immediately applies them the way we live in the kingdom of God.

Theology needs to be moved down from the ivory tower and put on the streets. Theology needs to be figured out not in isolation by individual scholars but in community. Now you might you might be thinking you've heard a lot of that recently and I hear a lot of people repeating these things endlessly in various contexts.

There's no two ways about it. But there was just so much in that that completely goes against everything that I have ever said and it I why is it that emergent church postmodernist have to so poorly represent what they're seeking to differentiate themselves from.

Isn't isn't your position unique enough that you can actually accurately represent those of us who are not postmodernist who do not believe emergent church stuff is is biblical or proper or that we we should embrace postmodernism or should should do anything other than call people to to live the way God created in the live in postmodernism is a worldview that's opposed the image of God created with this.

What what why not accurately represent what those of us who don't go that direction say. Isn't. Isn't your position significantly unique enough to differentiate self without the misrepresentation. I mean for example in the past 100 years apologetics taken the form of using reason and philosophy and argument try to help people of modern enlightenment sensibilities get past their mental stumbling blocks in a way to meet Jesus Christ.