Highlight: The "Gospel" in a Cult

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It was kind of like the gospel in this cult, because what I think of is I went to a private Christian school until seventh grade, and then when

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I hit eighth grade, going into high school, the thing that divided me from other people was essentially just the gospel, right?

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Not necessarily the way I looked or how I dressed. It sounds like the gospel almost takes form, or the gospel can be changed into the sense of form of legalism in order to make a distinct separation without it actually being the freedom in Christ that separates, you know, the person dead in sin to the person who gets made alive through the

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Holy Spirit. So what was the gospel in your guys's, in this little, in this cult here?

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I didn't come out of this thinking much about Christ at all, or just had many thoughts about him because it was such an environment of intense fear and wrath that that's kind of what you had room for, you know, it was focused on,

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I'm trying to make sure that when the rapture happens, I'm included. So I'm trying to, you know, do good works.

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I'm trying to obey all the rules, even though they may change when there's new revelation. And so I'm so focused on my behavior and on not getting in trouble that I'm not really even,

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I don't really have the space to be concerned about who Jesus is. So just, and I think that's important to note for people who grow up in these authoritarian types, like doomsday cults like this, is it's not maybe that they're not taught

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Jesus at all, but it's probably not what they remember when they leave, because it wasn't how

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Jesus in my world at that time, even though it's going to be funny to say, because it's the exact opposite,

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Jesus was not who was going to save me. It was my dad. It was my dad who was going to save me.

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And it was my good behavior who was going to keep me out of my dad's arm reach that was going to save me. It was making myself as small as humanly possible so I could get out that was going to save me.

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So these are the kinds of things that were going to save me. It really wasn't focused on Jesus. And yet I do remember growing up being afraid to go to sleep at night.

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My brother and I would always be like, are you still awake? Are you still awake? You know, we didn't want to fall asleep first. And I would sing over and over in my head,

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Jesus loves me, just on repeat. I would fall asleep every night for years singing Jesus loves me. So I did know that Jesus loved me and that Jesus was kind, but there was like a total separation from God the

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Father. Interesting. Well, yeah.

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And so when you've actually view like your dad and maybe this is there's like a layers in which

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I was thinking about this as well, too. So did you kind of see your dad more as like God or did you see him more as like the mediator towards God?

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Like you believe there was a God, but you saw your dad as a mediator, or was it kind of like one in the same or like, but obviously you're viewing it through the lens of your child and your upbringing, you know, like, how did you view it in that light in that light?

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And on that note, what was your view of God, especially just thinking in that light? My dad was a mediator.

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I didn't think he was God, but he was so close to God that the distinction didn't matter a whole lot.

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If my dad was pleased, then God was pleased. So it's essentially the same.

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But no, I didn't actually think they were one in the same. I just thought they were so close that God was speaking through my dad.

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And I would be told like my dad's behavior when he had poor behavior. Well, you know, that's the man in him.

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So we need to forgive that. And I know there's so many people listening to this and be like, oh, yeah, I've heard that one.

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So it's OK, let's draw a distinction between this is the man. And so we're going to forgive for all these things.

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We have this happen with sexual abuse all the time. We have this happen with all kinds of abuses. So, well, that's the man, the man's sinful.

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So let's forgive the man. And we need to separate that out from this is when God's speaking through him. So we're going to pay attention to that.

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So we're just we're going to let that all be together because it's worth dealing with the abuses because we're getting

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God's word. And that's OK, which is incredibly confusing coming out of like what what do you do with that when you exit and you start to look at real

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Christianity? I mean, are all these behaviors acceptable? Like, what do I do? Yeah. And God, the father was again.

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So basically, I would say with with Jesus, well, Jesus was nice. I didn't have to worry about him.

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So he was just kind of put off to the side and on a shelf like, OK, Jesus isn't after me. So I really OK, Jesus and I were probably fine,

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I guess. So I'm just not going to be concerned. So I'm worried about my dad and I'm worried about God, the father, because God, the father is fire and brimstone wrath just out to burn me up if I mess up.

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So and my dad's kind of the link. Now, I was not taught. We were actually very directly taught that my dad could not hit.

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He being his daughter was not going to save me. It did have to happen on my own like merit, so to speak.

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So it wasn't that well, I'm saved just because I'm I'm his daughter. But I knew that, OK, my dad's so close to God that if if I do what my dad says and he's pleased with me, then

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God's going to be pleased with me. I'm going to make it. I'm going to be fine. OK, yeah, just it kind of makes sense to me, especially when we were talking earlier about, you know, you know, you're singing

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Jesus loves me at night, but then being terribly afraid of the father, like all of these things bleed into each other, especially into perversions of sexuality and the grooming of children.

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Like, I'll just read this from first John, too. It says this. It says no one who denies the son has the father.

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Whoever confesses the son has the father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. What you heard from the beginning abides in you.

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Then you, too, will abide in the son and in the father. And this is the promise that he made to us eternal life. Right. Like even in first I mean, even in John one verse 18, it says no one has ever seen the father except the unique and only son who has made him known, meaning this that a lot of times cult leaders, whether it be through their own revelation or a psychological manipulation of others, will distort the being of Christ because you're not going to actually have a good representation of who the father is and his love for us, for sending his son to die on the cross for our sins so that we can have peace with God.

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No, it'll be manipulated. Right. Like Jesus. Yeah, maybe he loves you, but he fully doesn't absorb the wrath of the father.

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And then the actual human father there. They then are a projection, their anger or some of the standards that you need to live up to are then projected on God, the father, because you never had a right understanding of the son in the first place.

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You have no way to really to make sense of a family dynamic because we can't understand love without the

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Trinity, you know, without the Godhead rightly understood in general. And that's what it sounds like to me, because what happens is when you don't understand who

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Jesus is and you're a Christian church supposed to be Christ followers, you're going to end up with people grooming young women, you know, like that's what happens.

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There's no necessarily true love abounding there or right actual ways to perceive the true family dynamic.

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And it's heartbreaking to me, Naomi, to hear that that happened to you. But the great, the great thing is, is that, you know, who the true son of God is now in the freedom that you have in Jesus.

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But yeah, that's kind of some of my thought process going on there in terms of hearing your story and some of the things that you're going through.

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Well, thank you for that, Andrew. And when you're looking at a leader and you have that leader up on the pedestal, and it's really, it's the leader that you're following.

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You're not really following the Lord. You're really following the leader. Here's an example of what happens. I found this to be mind blowing.

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Now, and because the group's ongoing, my dad passed away when I was 21. So it's, I'm 37 now.

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It's about 16 years ago. And when he died, I mean, there's kind of a lull for a while.

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And then a new man kind of took over. And now I had a recent conversation with someone who's within the group still.

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And God has gone from wrathful and scary, which my dad was wrathful and scary, to, well, now my dad's deceased.

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So after someone dies, it's easy over time to kind of forget the bad and just the good will surface.

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You know, you're trying to kind of respect their memory and it's just easier because you're not living in the bad anymore. And so now

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God is like the papa, like God's like daddy. And that's similar to how my dad's now being seen, is like, well, forgive the bad.

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Like he tried his best. He tried so hard. And some of that may be true. Maybe that was his best.

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I mean, I can say it wasn't good enough. And I think there's times where we can say the abuse isn't good enough. And so we need to figure that out.

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And so when I look back, I'm like, God changes based on the changes of the leader.

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Even if there's a change in leadership in totality or just a change in your leader's persona, all of a sudden the

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Trinity is different. And God is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Trinity is not going to change.

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And so if we start to see those shifts, like, whoo, red flag, God didn't change on you. So do you even really know who he is?