Second Rebuttal, First Audience Questions, Shamsi Ali Debate

As-salamu alaykum again. Dr. James White, in his 10 minutes rebuttal, basically tried his best to respond to some of my presentations. But unfortunately, probably because of the time, he didn't respond to many, many points that I raised.

The Qur'an, the Gospel, and the Claim of Corruption

But let me just go directly to his presentations. The first one he raised is that Muslims believe in the Qutub, that we do believe in the books. Yes, as I mentioned that Muslims will not be Muslims unless they believe in the Torah, in the Gospel, and of course in the Holy Qur 'an.

But never we find anywhere in the Holy Qur 'an God says, وَآمِنُوا بِالإِنجِيلِ And believe in the Gospel. The Qur 'an always says وَآمِنُوا بِالْقُطُبِ And believe in the books which are given to the prophets.

Why the Qur 'an doesn't say وَآمِنُوا بِالإِنجِيلِ. Believe in the Gospel? Because Gospels have been corrupted in many ways throughout the history. We cannot believe in the Gospels that you have in your hands right now.

Though we do believe that it may contain some truth from God. This is number one. Another important point that he raised is about government control of the Qur 'an because of Uthman. Don't forget that before Uthman, Abu Bakr also compiled the Qur 'an and he was not the person who compiled the Holy Qur 'an.

He was a government and he assigned the job to Zayd Ibn Thabit and later on Uthman also ordered to compile or basically to copy the Qur 'an that had been compiled previously. Copied, I say copied because there is no copy machine at the time so you have to write it again.

And he appointed four people headed by Zayd Ibn Thabit. It is not controlled by Uthman. It is given assignment to certain people, to certain Muslims. Four of those memorize the Holy Qur 'an, the best writers among the companions of the Prophet Muhammad.

So he didn't control, basically he didn't say do this, do that. Show me of the four Bible books of the New Testament today. Who basically dictated during the conference of Nisya? Don't you know this is a king?

Read the history. There are many non-Muslims writing about this issue. Now, Dr. James in many of his debates because I have to be honest with you, I have opened some YouTube debates of his. He mentioned a lot about Ibn Mas 'ud, Ibn Mas 'ud that he rejected as he mentioned in one of the hadith that he rejected.

But basically he failed to understand that Ibn Mas 'ud initially rejected to hand over his copy. Why is that? He rejected in the beginning because that copy is beloved to him. It doesn't mean that he has different Qur 'an or different versions.

It is beloved to him and he had some notes on it. Now my point to you, if the Qur 'an has many versions before Uthman, do you think Uthman had control over all houses? Why we cannot find any different version of Qur 'an today?

When the four Bibles were imposed on the Christian people, later on we found many many new Bibles including Dead Sea Scroll that you find later on. Because you cannot control all this. Uthman cannot control every household.

And that's why we didn't find any version because it was not versions. It was different dialects of the people to read it. So Uthman wanted, right now, you have to unify the way you recite the Holy Qur 'an.

Not different dialects. Let me just give you one example. I am from Indonesia. When I say I eat, it means I makan. In Indonesian language. If you go to Malaysia, the Malaysian people say makan. But they write it the same thing.

The same words basically but you pronounce different. So this is the issue of Uthman's compilation of the Holy Qur 'an. It's not different versions of the Holy Qur 'an. We never found any different version in the history of the Holy Qur 'an.

The Qur'an, the Bible, and Original Revelation

Now coming to the ayah that la ila la ila. It is not true that la ila Allahi tuhsharun. Never anywhere in the Holy Qur 'an any word la and then directly come huruf up to the ila. There is no Arabic language that says la ila Allahi.

It is wrong dramatically. So it is impossible that the Qur 'an is different between la ila, la ila Allah and la ila Allah. It's wrong. We cannot understand it. I think Dr. James is studying Arabic language.

I don't know what kind of Arabic language he understands. La ila Allah. There is no. Ghairu ila Allah is quite possible. But la ila Allah is not accepted at all in Arabic language. Ask any Arabic people here today.

Coming to another issue. About the suhruf and tahab that he mentioned. Please do tell me, show me. That where is that Qur 'an right now? I know that today my brothers and sisters, my friends including Christians, I have to let you know.

That there is a Christian evangelist named Anis Shosh. Tried to write a book. And say that this is the challenge to the Holy Qur 'an. But even my kid, my kid can read Arabic Qur 'an. Who is only 7 years old.

I keep both Qur 'an and the book of Anis Shosh written. I say my kid, which one is the Holy Qur 'an? And he really says, this is not the Holy Qur 'an. I can say bismillahirrahmanirrahim in a beautiful tone.

I cannot say bismillahirrahmanirrahim. I cannot simply. The taste of the language is simply crazy. Just the sense of linguistic cannot be accepted. So no one can challenge the Holy Qur 'an in Arabic language.

My brothers and sisters. Now, you are talking that from the beginning. The Holy Bible has been recorded. Show me right now. Where is that original Bible that you are talking about? Where is this? Now you see different Bibles.

But show me where is that original Bible? Because I am in need of that. The Qur 'an says, God gave Jesus a book. So where is that book? I wanted to find that because that is mine too. If you can show me that original book that has been given to Jesus.

I will follow that because that is also what the Qur 'an says. Follow Jesus, follow his book. But unfortunately, the book that you presented to us. Is not that book that you are talking about. The original revelation that has been given to Jesus Christ.

Where it is today? Let me know where. Translation and translation. When you say about translation of the Holy Qur 'an. This is similar to the Holy Bible. You know my friends. When you talk about translation.

You are talking about human products. If I am strong in Arabic language. I can have my own Qur 'anic translation. And I translate the Holy Qur 'an according to my capacity. According to the brain that I have.

According to the level of knowledge. And so tell me right now. Where is that original Bible in original language. That has been revealed to Jesus Christ. Because that is my need as well to know. And to see and to read it and to follow it.

The Qur 'an says. Injil and Torah is a guidance for people. So I consider Torah as a guidance. But we want the original Torah. We want original Injil to follow as a guidance for me. Because if you read.

In many verses of the Bible itself. There are many verses in the Bible. Talk about how Jesus prayed. How Jesus bowed. How Jesus prostrated. How Jesus prayed to God. And those are verses from God. Because we believe in that.

Son of God, Trinity, and the Question of Begottenness

Okay. Now when you talk about son. Jesus as the son of God. You are trying to give different interpretation. That Christians believe in one God. But in three personalities. Up to date. Let me just assure you.

No one of among Christian scholars. Can give us a definite definition. About Trinity today. Some people just give examples. Examples as examples. But let me just tell you. The whole Bible say begotten son.

Begotten son. In some version they say unique son. There is a difference between begotten son and unique son. Everybody is unique in relation to God. For Muslims. Everyone has unique relation to God. You are all unique sons of God.

But begotten. What is the meaning of begotten? Have been harsh sired. Let me just. Translation of the begotten son. That mentioned in the holy Quran. In the holy Bible. Now you are talking a lot about.

The Fall, Original Sin, and Human Accountability

Crucifixion. Incarnation. Etc. etc. Let me just tell you this one point. If you just understand the stand of Islam. The concept of Islam about Jesus. The whole idea. That have been innovated later on.

Into Christian belief. Basically is rejected. Committed wrong in paradise. By eating the forbidden fruit. But let me just tell you the difference. Between Muslims and Christians. In the holy Bible it says.

The devil came to Adam. He could not tempt Adam. And then he tempted his wife. And his wife was tempted. And she ate it. And then she tempted the husband. Because of that woman. So who is to be blamed?

That woman. The Quran doesn't say it that way. The Quran and the Bible. But according to the holy Quran. He asked for forgiveness. And God forgave him. Before he was descending. Down here to this world.

But my friends. Let me just assume. Assumption. That he was not forgiven. Doesn't God give us rationality to think? If my father kills someone. Should I be punished because of that? Those born kids who are babies.

Die without being baptized. What would happen to them? The Christian people say there is a place. Between the fire and the heavens. So they are in between. Some people say that. But my question is what happens.

If they are not baptized then? So my friends. It is very clear. That when we do believe. That there is no original sin at all. There is no sign of God. No crucifixion. Nothing. Why? He was a servant. He was a messenger.

He was a noble. He was given many many miracles. And Muslims believe that he is one of the mighty. The mighty prophets of God. But never believe that Jesus. Had been and is. God of God. Son of God. He is always man.

Human beings. A noble man. A messenger. He himself had been given a blessing. By the almighty God. Thank you so much.

Two questions. What we are going to do is. We are going to ask our speakers to be as brief as possible. A minute. A minute and a half maybe. And then we will have a brief. Say 45 seconds or so. Response.

The Meaning of Theos, Monogenes, and Jesus' Full Deity

So I will begin with Dr. White. Dr. White you have up to 90 seconds or so to respond to this. Sorry we have to keep it short. But we want to try and get to as many people's questions as possible. Dr. White.

You said that Jesus was the God man. What is the Hebrew or Greek term used for this in the Bible? There is no single Greek term that has translated God man. And I think the closest would be. Theos of John 118.

Which has translated a number of versions. As the only son who is God. Jesus is described clearly as man. There is no question that he entered into flesh. In John 114. The word became flesh and dwelt amongst us.

He truly was flesh. But he is also described clearly as God. Not just a son of God. But the son of God. Monoghanes does not mean begotten. That was just represented to you in Arabic. Monoghanes means unique or one of a kind.

In the original Greek language. He is described as God in John 1. The beginning was the word. The word was with God and the word was God. He is described as our great God and Savior. In Titus 2 .13 and 2 Peter 1 .1.

He is said to be the one through whom all things were made. Whether in heaven and earth. Principles, powers, dominions or authorities. All things created by him and for him. He is before all things. So clearly the New Testament.

From beginning to end. Describes Jesus in terms that can only be used. Of God himself. In fact. Passages about Yahweh in the Old Testament. Are applied to Jesus in the new. In unique ways. And so the question asked for a specific term.

I did not say that there is a word. Translated God man. But when you have one. Who is called the son of man. Who walked this earth. Who is likewise described as Yahweh. This is what the scriptures teach.

Thank you.