April 6, 2021 Show with Phil Johnson on “Are Naive Christians Unconsciously Helping Pave the Way to Greater Waves of Persecution of the Church?”

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Are naive Christians unconsciously helping to pave the way to greater waves of

persecution of the Church?

Well, we're going to discuss that question today with Phil Johnson, one of my favorite guests of

all time here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

In fact, I still don't think anybody has beat him as far as being the most interviewed

guest of all time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Phil is the Executive Director of the Media Ministry for Dr. John MacArthur.

Grace to you.

And we are going to be addressing that theme that I just mentioned, and it's an honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Phil

Johnson.

Thank you, Chris. Good to be here.

And why don't you very quickly give us an update on

how Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where you are a member,

the church pastored by John MacArthur, and where you also basically pastor

a church within a church there.

Tell us how you folks are faring with all the persecution you've been receiving locally in California due

to your refusal to shut down during the coronavirus pandemic hysteria mandates.

Yeah, actually, things are going very well.

We just had, of course, Easter celebration,

one of the biggest.

We

don't

know where every

Friday

night.

It had to be

one of the biggest.

We haven't

done anything

since

it started.

Well, there's Romans 828 going into action right there.

Yeah.

And in fact, I know a number of churches that refuse to shut down

who have grown substantially in size because many people were tired of

having the churches where they were members being so obedient to the

secular authorities and keeping their doors shut, and even going beyond what the secular authorities

asked, and certainly what they had the authority to do, just out of

some kind of expression of love in their minds to the community, when I think it's the exact opposite.

The church is supposed to be expressing their love by ministering

to the community with the gospel, with a call to repentance and

discipleship and counseling and all things like that that go on, in addition to meeting

the physical needs of folks in the surrounding areas of a church.

So, isn't it ironic that people...

Yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

You know, the history of the church is dotted with incidents,

and the church has been there through one of the famous outbreaks

of the start of

Spurrow.

He just continued to minister to people saying, you know, it's dangerous

to come into contact with people who are infected.

He went and prayed

with the

sick and dying, and has always responded until

now.

Higher

existence is not really to proclaim the gospel, because they don't do that, or they don't do it

clearly.

That is the biggest

problem.

They'll use entertainment or any means they can.

They have less to do.

He said, all

the churches I know of

about the gospel shut down.

The few remaining believers in those

congregations...

Further threats or anything like that coming from governing authorities and the police department and so on?

You know, I think still, yes, we're

giving the

opinion on

the matters, but I know that there

are hearings.

The county hasn't backed off.

The state government here in California is

things

like that, while the rest

of us not to go

indoors without...

Praise God.

And if anybody wants more information about Grace Community

Church in Sun Valley, California, and also the ministry for which

our guest, Phil Johnson, serves as executive director, grace to you.

You could go to gty .org, gty .org.

In fact, I'm going to take this time to quickly plug an excellent book, a very important book for

our time, Coronavirus and the Leadership of the Christian Church, A Sacred Trust Broken.

My personal physician is one of the authors, Dr. Joel Yeager

of Heritage Family Health in Newmanstown, Pennsylvania.

He co -authored that along with Dr. Daniel O 'Rourke, another physician, and Ernie

Springer, who is the publisher.

And in fact, I've got to get a hold off the air, of course, of your mailing address, Phil, because

the publisher would love for you to have a copy.

Of this in your hands.

Yeah, thank you.

I'll text my address to you.

Oh, that sounds great.

Well, we have a pretty heavy theme today,

and I want you to answer the question.

Are naive Christians unconsciously helping to pave the way to greater waves of persecution of the church?

Yeah, I think there's no question that that is happening.

You can see it in pretty much any venue where people exchange ideas

and

talk.

Professing believers, evangelicals, some of the harshest critics

of those of us who continue to meet, continue to talk about in

the midst of

a situation that really ought to shut us down.

You know, it's ironic, isn't it?

Scripture says one of the chief things is to deliver those.

So here we are in a

situation where the media and our government and pretty much every major institution

seems to be doing everything they can to prolong the crisis and maximize the fear.

And it's disturbing to me that so many Christians are

playing along with that narrative and fomenting that scenario.

They want to be more fearful than we are.

I think that's persecution.

Persecution, not only in the

end, it turns out

that in

the.

Evangelical community.

Yeah, it is quite a disturbing scenario that we are

facing where people very quickly, immediately believe

in things they are taught and mandated by the secular media and by

secular politicians and scientists, even those that are known to,

for lack of a better term, hate Christ and his gospel and his scriptures.

And even though that the Christians who are bowing down to these mandates so

quickly and the urgent call for vaccinations and other things, they know

that these people also believe that a nine -month -old baby in the womb is not worthy of

the protection of its own life from being murdered by the mother and the mother's

physician.

They know that these same politicians and many of the same scientists

will allow a man to be identified as a woman just because he feels like

one.

I mean, we could go on and on with the insanity and Christians who believe in the inerrancy of scripture

are just immediately jumping on the.

Bandwagon and siding with these individuals.

Yeah, look at

the case

of

Alberta,

even

though

they decided to...

It was

definitely

at least a

couple of weeks or more.

Even coming from,

is going to open the door from the government,

yelling

at them,

I

don't

necessarily

am a.

Yes, and it is interesting that quite providentially

the theme for the conference that you and I will be attending, where you will be one of

over 20 speakers, the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia,

September 30th through October 2nd.

The theme is Christ is supreme over all, and really

Christians are...

I would have a hard time believing they'd be conscious of this, but they're really allowing

governing authorities to have supremacy over Christ because they're allowing governing

authorities in some places even to forbid Christians from doing things they're

commanded to do.

Am I right?

Yeah, no, that is exactly right.

It started with the fact that we are commanded to meet.

I mean, that's the whole meaning of the word church.

It's a called out assembly, an assembly.

It's not an assembly of the saints, and

we're not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, even under government order.

And, you know, we said this more than a year ago.

Look, if there's a legitimate health crisis, people are dying and the streets are full of

bodies, yes, we can suspend the worship of the church.

You know, you don't come to church

if you have a contagious disease.

The command to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together isn't so absolute

that it means you should never... you're always in sin if you ever miss a Sunday.

But once it's gone for more than a year now, in fact, I would say by the time it went for

two months, and there weren't signs that people were dying in droves,

the disease at a rate that was actually

killing large numbers of people.

As soon as that was clear, it seems it comes a time when,

and say, we have to obey God rather than men.

You obey God rather than men.

And there's an element of subjectivity in the question of how long, how long do you obey a

quarantine, and when do you go back to work?

By any measure, the church has been suspended for more than a

year, the

church anyway, because you can't, as a believer,

throw your sanctification the way you should and live a healthy...

of all fellowship for months on end, like

common sense for anyone who understands the whole point of the church assembling.

And yet, there is no end of people out there who self -identify as

evangelicals, actually, and angrily believe, are

somehow, they're the ones in sin.

What do you think is the root of that phenomenon, where you have...

I mean, because I know folks that are just as conservative as you and

I, who are just as committed to reformed soteriology as

you and I, to biblical inerrancy as you and I, who even may have

openly despised the presidential candidacy and election of Joe Biden

as much as you and I, and yet, they are among these cheerleaders for

all of the mandates that are being declared, whether they are legally

declared or strongly recommended under the language, or

using the language that it sounds like a mandate anyway.

What do you think the root of that is?

Yeah, I don't have a good answer for that question.

I've wondered about it myself.

There aren't many like that.

I do think the lines generally break down between those who are

totally committed to biblical inerrancy and the authority of Christ over the Church, typically are the ones who

say, no, the Church needs to meet.

And it's people who are more pragmatic, who think the point of the Church

is to gather a crowd and influence the world by persuasion or

whatever.

They tend to be the ones who think, no, no, no, we have to go along with for the sake of our testimony and

loving our brethren.

That's generally how it breaks down.

But as you say, there are some whose theological opinions I would normally agree with,

interminable quarantines and our perfect live stream church services.

I think it reflects the doctrine of

the Church.

I'm willing to argue that anywhere.

But you can see, for example, the inconsistency of thought in a group like Nine

Marks, Mark Devers,

who gathered to meet anyway.

And yet, one of the core principles of

centrality of the Church and the biblical attendance at

church, that's still one of the doctrines they've stressed.

And yet, many months being critical of

churches that were meeting, then

ultimately they

decided

how long is too long and all that.

And so I can appreciate that, I can live with a bit of disagreement, but here we

are more than a year after the quarantine started, and those Christians who are still content

to sit home in their pajamas and drink coffee and live stream on TV and think that that's as healthy

as going to church, understand that attitude.

I don't think that's Christ, I think that's a

worldly attitude, and I'm not ashamed to say that.

There have been some closer to or right on the same spot

that you and I are on on this issue, who have even said

that that is not worship.

And gathering around a TV or computer screen,

although is a beneficial aid at times, especially for those who are homebound, it is not a

substitute in any way for worship, and it really isn't.

How do you respond to that level of critique over what's going on?

Well, I do agree with that.

I think, you know, live streaming the church service, I'm not opposed to that, because I think it serves a very

useful purpose of necessity, shut in.

And my dad, who died last year, was confined to a

care living place for months, and his only source of biblical

teaching and sort of online

thing, and plus people who came to visit him.

I appreciate that.

You know, he sensed the need for fellowship.

He said that.

He could not get out, and I think the church owes people like

that all kinds of ministry, both in person and to

make it available online so they can watch it and

participate at least on that level.

Dogmatically, that is not a valid substitute for church.

It's not an option if you're able to attend to say, no, I just don't

feel like getting up and getting dressed this week.

I'll watch the live stream on.

At best, a temporary short -term

substitute.

It's better than skipping it all together, but not much.

And after a year of nothing but online,

watching a service

online, priority of

course, in the long term,

it doesn't accomplish what

you'll get if you cut yourself off from any kind of

contact with your brothers and sisters.

Well, we have to go to our first break right now.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Phil Johnson, the

president of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

And we are discussing, Are Naive Christians Unconsciously Helping to Pave the Way

to Greater Waves of Persecution of the Church?

Our email address, if you have questions of your own, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A

-R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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country of residence.

Phil, we have a first -time questioner, Andrew in Brooklyn, New York.

How does the modern church's compromise on critical race theory and intersectionality

compare to the church's compromise on evolution and a literal.

Genesis?

Yeah, you know, I think it comes from the same source.

There's

been a

significant

and natural

aptitude

when, in fact,

confound

the wise.

The last thing the church needs to be doing

is watching what the secular economy is thinking at the moment, and trying to adapt.

And yet, that has

been

there

for

trying

to

jump on

another

bandwagon.

Now,

by

the way,

thank

you.

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Something that is interesting, an interesting phenomenon.

Why do you think it is?

I mean, some people might be listening, and they might be saying, what is critical race theory and

intersectionality have to do with the main theme of shutting down

of churches over Coronavirus hysteria mandates?

Well, it does seem to dovetail.

I mean, not always.

I mean, I know folks that are very opposed to

critical race theory and intersectionality and all of those nonsensical,

insane and dangerous and bigoted things that are under the umbrella of the woke movement and the

social justice warrior movement, who are opposed to that and yet are right on the bandwagon with the

mask mandates with the shutting down of churches with rushing as fast as you can to get a

vaccine.

But there is, it seems an overlapping though, where there are many who

have as much a part of their agenda, the pushing for these mandates as they are to

promote the woke movement.

Yeah, that's the social justice agenda and the health

mandates become

evangelicals.

That would be the most common group, as you say, reject the social

justice agenda, and yet they're all in favor of them.

It doesn't often go the other way.

You don't see many people who say, no, the church needs to meet, we need to go ahead.

And I think, I mean, you

don't

see many people who say that and then say,

church to meet, and we're in favor of social justice.

And I think the reason you don't see that very often is because people,

evangelicals in this agenda and evangelicals

similar motive, and it's what I was just talking about in response to that question.

It's a desire to gain some kind of stability

or where these ideas are popular happens to dominate

the secular mind at the moment, is easily adopted by people who think that, you know,

the church can't have influence with the world if we disagree with them, so let's agree with them as much as we can.

And the picture that the church is called to confront

culture, not adapt to it.

But if you think, no, what we have to do is contextualize everything and adapt to the culture as much as we

can, then you're going to be just as government intrusion

into price of respectability and.

Worldly -minded people.

What do you foresee being, I mean, I know that you're not a prophet.

I know that you're a very strict cessationist.

I know that you're not into extra biblical divine revelation occurring in

the 21st century, so I know that you don't know anything with infallibility, but do you have any

idea or any biblically

trained thoughts on what you see as

a possibility for, or not only biblically trained thoughts, but even from what you know from

history and from what you see going on in the world around us now, what you expect might

be greater waves of persecution specifically for the church, especially here in the United States and.

North America in

general?

Yeah, you're right,

I'm a cessationist.

But I don't claim any special

in the health quarantine would cause.

I did not foresee that

coming.

If I had to guess,

church is going to

recognize

required, and

I

think

there's

going to

be an

effort for, in

fact, some of the politicians'

discrimination on the basis of sexual

discrimination should be required by law even in

Turkey

quickly, and it

already

exists

in some

countries

right

now.

Yeah, I

rarely.

Agree, well, maybe that's a stretch or an exaggeration.

I very often disagree, not all the time, but I very often disagree with Pastor

Jeffers in Texas, one of the pastors

that was most frequently featured on Fox News and other conservative

outlets during the presidential race and even subsequent to

that.

I mean, I believe he's my brother in Christ, and I just don't agree with all of his rhetoric

or his discernment, especially when he was linking arms with some of the

lunatic fringe Word of Faith movement leaders just because they were supportive of

President Trump.

But he said something recently that I agreed with when he was being asked about

the recent polls that church attendance, in fact, all

attendance in houses of worship across the board has dropped dramatically.

In fact, for the first time in the history of the United States, apparently, church attendance

has only been something that

is being participated by less than half of the population in

America.

In other words, prior to recently, and since they started taking

these polls, more than half, the majority of Americans

were churchgoers and also attendees regularly at their houses of

worship of choice.

But Pastor Jeffers, I think rightly said that, well, that's just nominal

Christianity, who are basically starting to

live and act according to their true worldview and belief system.

They're just not going to church anymore because they never really believed to begin with, likely.

And I see a lot of validity in that.

What do you have.

To say?

Yeah, he's

absolutely

right

about that.

And it is one

of the more than

becomes higher

price you have, you're going to see.

We have to go to our midway break right now, folks.

So if you.

Have a question for Phil Johnson, send it in to chrisarnson at gmail

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Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Phil Johnson after these messages.

As host of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com or

call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens

Iron

Radio.

Dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen,.

Host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one

another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday,

September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme, Christ is

Supreme Over All.

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody

Balkam, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin.

Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

recently.

Good to be back, Chris.

I.

Always enjoy our time.

You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30, more

than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air.

So I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And, of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, or maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and

always.

Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any

money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income?

Maybe you've had to close your doors for good.

The good news, you thought, was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of

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You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause.

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Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income

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Trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on

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Buttafuoco Associates, here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of

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Call 1 -800 -669 -4878.

Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness?

Are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?

More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe, low -cost, and

proven options to regain your health the way God intended?

Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the

nations.

Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me

to write this book.

If 2020 has proven anything, it's that big pharma, big tech, and big government knows nothing about how to treat

people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.

But what if God has given us a better way?

What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?

My book, Health for All of Life, does just that.

You can find this exciting new book on Amazon.

Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.

Give the gift of health.

And don't be a dead end to truth.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched.

My Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents

vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

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For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to

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Chris Orenson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World Now at no charge for 90 days by going to getworldnow

.com.

That's getworldnow .com.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

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Visit getworldnow .com today.

Also, check out World News Group's podcast, The World and Everything in It, at

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That's W for World, N for News, G for Group, dot org forward

slash podcast.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship,.

Play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at.

Linbrook Baptist Church.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org.

Charles Hedden Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So sorry folks, but due to a technical.

Malfunction, the origins of which we cannot trace.

At the moment, we did not record the last 50 minutes, approximately, of this

broadcast.