Sudden Clarity of Black Racism (Louis Farrakhan) Then Jonathan McLatchie on the Noetic Effect of Sin

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00:33

Greetings welcome to the divine line James White along with you on a Tuesday afternoon Along with the pride and joy of the

00:39

French nation rich Pierce on the other side of the window The only man in the city of Phoenix that can sing the

00:45

French national anthem in French You'll have to ask him to do that sometime. I'd like to see that that'd be sort of funny.

00:53

Anyways What Anyway Wow The cello maker in Texas just pointed something out.

01:08

I just I just popped over to the ERLC Twitter feed If you don't know what the

01:13

ERLC is, it's supposed to be the religious liberty Arm of the

01:21

SVC, it's supposed to be the people that are actually, you know, defending religious liberty and stuff like that What it is is the woke the the

01:31

Southern Baptist Convention Convention -funded woke group headed by dr.

01:37

Moore, of course and Who himself has gone through quite the evolution over the past ten years as So many other people have but I started looking through this thing and I mean, we've got some serious issues

01:51

I mean, California is going back into lockdown Last week you weren't allowed to sing now.

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You're not allowed to me and There is a picture of a worship service in one of these

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ERLC tweets and it's just you know six people in a massive room with all these chairs empty and covered with stuff and this kind of thing anyway

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You would think there would be something You know questioning this and and going.

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Hey, wait a minute The the facts don't seem to back this up at all and But no,

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I'm just scrolling down and it's just a Huge celebration of wokeness.

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I mean, that's just that's just all it is. It's just woke woke woke stuff Yeah, here's the here's that picture

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Of this church and with the temperature check thing and all the rest of stuff and big old signs

02:53

You know six feet by the way, that's six feet thing is Completely random it is completely random, you know, they do do not do that in Europe In some places, it's four feet four and a half feet.

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I've heard as short as three feet in Europe. Yeah, right

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It's probably due to being meters or something like that. Yeah Which they'd have in France too as you would well know but but It's it's completely random,

03:24

I mean it's just it's just something that someone grabbed And and said let's let's use this and It Okay, I finally broke down and I watched

03:38

V for Vendetta now, it's it I don't know what it's rated, but it had profanity in it and stuff like that, but What was creepy?

03:47

Because it was the whole underlying thing of how this government took power was

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I mean, it's set in 2020 first of all and secondly

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This totalitarian government took control in London Through the exact exactly what we're seeing exactly what we're saying.

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It's just like and And when did they make this movie Wow, okay And there were some interesting references to United States being in civil war and all the rest of stuff and it was probably sort of like 1984 fake stuff, but it was interesting to see all that stuff, but So anyway, it just sort of fits in with what

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I'm with what I'm seeing on this stuff, but it's it's it's just so woke

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That You know seven hours ago It is our calling as citizens of heaven in the United States to fight for truth

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Justice righteousness and peace the glory of God for the good of our neighbors. That sounds wonderful, isn't it? And it's a article about how kovat 19 disproportionately affects minorities

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And so yeah, there you go Okay, Jeff I'll do my best for you, bro

05:08

Wish I could turn the notification of that off. I'll just have to have turn turn that off. But okay

05:14

Jeff gotcha I'm not sure why you're doing that. But anyway So just listening and I'm help.

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I'm helping Jeff out right now. So that's a that's a that's a good thing. Anyway Yeah, er,

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I'll see man. I'll tell you I fully understand why churches that resist the neo -marxist woke isms

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Taking over the SBC don't want their money going to the RLC because it's sort of like Sending, you know be like sending money to Pravda during During the age of the

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USSR is the same same stuff basically going on there And then earlier today

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Earlier today US Conference of Mayors, do you see this US Conference of Mayors support?

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You sitting down 6 .2 Quadrillion in reparations payments to black

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Americans now if you wanted If you wanted clear evidence that that the mayors of our cities don't have any concept of basic economics

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This is um, yeah, this is This is where it is, I Don't believe that there are six point two quadrillion dollars in entire monetary existence in the universe and That includes the

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Federation Which we haven't run into yet What?

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Yes, the Leonard Nimoy someone I was just putting away today, but someone sent me one million dollar

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Leonard Nimoy dollars Thank you very much That's what we're that's

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Reparations will be printed in in Spock millions I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure what you're gonna get out of that, but Seriously US Conference of Mayors support six point two quadrillion

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That would be six thousand two hundred trillion Okay, so again,

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I do not believe that all the economies in the world together have ever produced six point two quadrillion

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And so you're just You're just like Who came up with this?

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Well, you've got representative Sheila Jackson Lee from from Texas and And of course senator

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Cory Booker Um, neither one of which have ever demonstrated that they could ever balance checkbook if their life depended on Big time except I can't say that So Anyway, Jackson Lee submitted the bill in the house last year to quote begin the long -delayed process of atonement for slavery end quote

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Though the proposal did not receive as much attention year ago recent Black Lives Matter protests and riots have thrust the issue in the spotlight

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Oh, I bet so here's the number the six quadrillion number was calculated through a complex process that attempts to account for unpaid slave hours a

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Fee for the cost of discrimination and additional penalties for massacres plus interest The authors the estimate conclude ready for this

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That would amount to approximately One hundred and fifty one million dollars to each black descendant of slaves

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So every black descendant of slaves becomes an NBA player And a cost of This is serious,

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I'm reading this eighteen point nine six million dollars for every taxpayer

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So you get to owe nineteen million dollars

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To pay the reparations there. They're talking about that. That's why I was saying I've I'm not sure how many

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I've got here, but I'm paying mine out in in Spock bucks I've got mine right there.

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There's you you can have all the Spock bucks you want But yeah, the US Conference of Mayors, which tells us that our cities are completely gone

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It's done just done now That's laughable.

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Obviously, it's laughable on every on every possible level This whole movement

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That movement is laughable on every possible level Because of the reality of history these people don't understand history.

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They don't realize that all of us Could demand reparations for what was done to our ancestors as far back as we want to push all of us

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Including blacks have slave owners in our ancestry all of us including whites have slaves in our ancestry everybody

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That that's that's the reality of history These people never read about Alexander the

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Great They don't know anything about the Caesars. They don't know anything about the role of of Slavery in Every nation on the planet

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Every single Continent it's been everywhere and so you want to start doing the reparations thing and Everybody is gonna have to pay it and receive it all the same time and no one can figure it out.

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It's impossible So we look at something like that and we just go right six point two quadrillion dollars right

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But here's what's scary I also saw Adam Ford Posted a

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Clip from Nick Cannon. I'm going to get this plugged in appropriately here and I have

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Brought it out to the whole screen here. So hopefully now

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Here's here's the problem. I forget where I was at. I I remember that it's interesting

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I remember what the church looked like inside. I don't remember What city it was in what state it was in or anything else?

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But sometime Maybe as long as 14 years ago or so I I Forget when it was

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I was at a conference with Votie Balcom and Votie was asked to speak

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About Some of the Cultic movements popular in black

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America, not just America, but primary areas specifically, you know the beginnings the black hebrews white stuff and especially especially the nation of Islam and Minister Farrakhan Louis Farrakhan the most racist man

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You will ever hear speaking from platforms in the US government

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But again We've been being told for a long time now blacks can't be racist.

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So That has produced a tremendous amount of black racism huge amount of black racism and Farrakhan I Mean Farrakhan teaches people that that black that white people are demons.

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We're demons that so Our lives have no value. We're demons That's that's how it works so There has there has been warnings about this kind of stuff for a long time

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But most of us are sort of like that's that's out there, you know Let's support the black ministers that are trying to fight this stuff and and you know, we've done our

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Our part in dealing. I mean, I've talked about Farrakhan in the past and I've exposed him along with James Cone and of course we

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Elder Rakah still has a twitch today What happened only a couple years ago when we debated so we've done some stuff in black

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Hebrews or lights and things like that All The sudden remember last week

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I read from the young lady up in Canada about melanin

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Now Let me just mention this. I don't talk about this a lot. But when

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I was in college, I was a double major I was I started my initial intention when

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I started at Grand Canyon College was medical missions. I was I was going to Become a medical doctor and do missions work.

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That's that's what I was thinking, you know as a freshman I wasn't even married yet. I got married to my freshman sophomore years and So I Was I completed a biology major and I was department fellow anatomy physiology.

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So I majored in biology Bible and I minored in Greek interesting stuff and I've told the stories about The the day

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I was I was demonstrating our cadavers to high school students and I looked at my watch and like ah,

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I'm late for Greek thankfully tell science building was right next to Fleming classroom building and so I just ran over and ran into class and it was second or third year

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Second year, I think But I forgot to take my smock off And so I've got that white lab coat type thing and I've been demonstrating the cadavers and we

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We preserved our cadavers not with cold storage, but chemical storage something called phenol

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Which they don't use anymore because it's been said to cause cancer Yay So but phenol once you've smelled phenol once you'll never forget what phenol smells like and So I sit down I'm getting my

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Greek text out and I'm noticing the guys are sort of sort of moving they're moving their chairs away from me and My dear brother

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Mike Baird. Dr. Baird the professor who put up with me for seven years said

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Brother James if you would like we will wait for you to Go back to the tell science building and deposit your odiferous garment

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And I'm like, oh sorry because after a while you don't smell it yourself, I mean it's Those those olfactory nodes just burn out.

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There's they're they're gone. Anyway, so I was I Know a little something.

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I mean that was a while back But I was department fellow in Adam physiology,

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I Knew my stuff. And so I know a little something about melanin And I know a little something about the mechanisms that produce melanin

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Everyone has melanin unless you're an albino. I mean an albino has a genetic issue

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To where you you don't have Pigmentation really at all There are some genetic

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Abnormalities that would keep a person from having any melanin but melanin is extremely important Melanin is is a clear example of the fact that God has created us to live upon this planet the near Darwinian micro evolutionary advocate is going to say that by accident

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Melanin was produced in some Ancestral creature of some type and Now here's here's a problem from the evolutionary perspective to produce something

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Places a more of a tax upon a system you have to you have to get more food you have to process more energy

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So if you all of a sudden can produce something and it has no benefit to you That's deleterious and your genes are gonna get wiped out of the gene pool

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Being able to produce something as amazing as melanin in of itself by some random mutation is

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Pretty freaky weird, but do you have to do that? Millions of times in the

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Darwinian timeline. It's the luckiest timeline that's ever you could ever ever think of I mean from the

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Darwinian perspective people have been throwing snake eyes for billions of years They really have that's the only only way it could work.

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But anyway The idea is that you'd all of a sudden you got this melanin stuff and lo and behold melanin

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Helps to protect bodily systems from some of the most harmful rays of the

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Sun Now from our perspective God designed it that way

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Knew that we would need that capacity But some people needed a whole lot more than other people needed and that's simply due to how

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Much you are exposed to solar radiation So everybody knows us white people know that You can get yourself a decent tan during the summer

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But during the winter it all goes away I mean

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I have had some serious biker tans and if you've seen biker legs, you know there's this one point where cycling shorts stop and You get real dark below that I try to avoid that as much as possible because I understand the destructive force of ultraviolet radiation

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Anybody in Arizona does anybody in Arizona who's ever left like a plastic tarp in your backyard during the summer?

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By the end of the summer it's gone. I mean it you can just go One of my

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I've put up those sail shades They're only gonna last a couple seasons. I'm gonna have to replace them

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Because Ultraviolet radiation simply destroys stuff and one of them came down because I had a rope one end the rope

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Rope was destroyed by the Sun. It hasn't rained. So it's not it's not that stuff.

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It was solar radiation You need the protection of melanin but if you live in northern climes and You're for example indoors

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For Most of the winter because it's too cold to be outdoors It's a waste of energy of your bodily energy to produce

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Melanin, there's no reason to have it It is deleterious to you to have that excess energy going into producing that melanin and so Anyway, you you understand that melanin is a

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Wonderful thing But it's a part of how much how much you need so it depends on where you are and People who live in particular areas where they are constantly exposed to Solar radiation need to have the maximum amounts of it.

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Well All of a sudden remember last week melanin connects you to cosmic energy and Melanin is all of a sudden the most important thing on the planet melanin makes you

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Intelligent and melanin makes you brave and melanin makes you a god and all of a sudden the wacky crazy disgusting racism of Louis Farrakhan is now mainstream and acceptable

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Acceptable in our society because of the

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Marxist Black Lives Matters movement So Here is a well, here's an example

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Let's let's listen to this clip Nick Cannon and Just Behold what is happening in our in our society?

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Let's go to what it really is Then when we talk about the power of melanated people when we talk about who we really are everybody except for a

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Albino person is melanated just so you know It's just it's just matter of how much guys and right and in that Melanin is so power and it connects us in a way that the reason why they melanin has no connective power

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There is no scientific evidence that melanin communicates with other melanin and some other person's body.

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There is no connective power It is a filter for ultraviolet radiation

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Turning it into some magical woo -woo stuff is destructive and racist by the way fear black the reason why they fears because they the lack that they have of it so then when you see

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What you know, dr. Francis C. Wellesley talked about is that so now you see now you see how these these falsehoods

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You you start developing Quote -unquote scholarship. It's not really a scholarship. It's not it's not peer -reviewed

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It's not it's not defensible But We've also been hearing people talk about decolonizing science and Getting rid of the

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Western emphasis upon things like logic Issues like that that fits into all of this stuff fear in that that that genetic annihilation efficiency

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Have a person that has has the lack of pigment the lack of melon right that they know that they will be

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Annihilated so therefore however, they got the power. They they have the lack of compassion that melanin comes with compassion

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Melanin comes with compassion think about that for a second melanin comes with compassion a

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Mechanism for protecting your body against solar radiation is somehow connected to compassion so when we see

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When we see what happened in well Siberia for example well known

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As a place where Russia and the Soviet Union sent people to die okay, and so There's there's see didn't have enough melanin so I had no compassion

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Okay, how about all of the constant tribal warfare in Africa?

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Where to this day tribes kill each other murder each other and in fact in some places eat each other

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How about the people of color in the South Pacific Where you still have that kind of tribal warfare going lots of melanin?

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No connection to compassion No, you see this is this is connected to a very materialistic view of man

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Where you have chemicals determining these things has nothing to do with a heart Has nothing to do with the soul

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This is anti -christian Anti -theistic and From a scientific perspective absurd on a level that's extremely difficult to express extremely difficult to express

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Melanin comes with soul that we call we call it so we'd soul brothers and sisters That's the melanin that connects right the people that don't have it have are are a lit and I'm gonna say this carefully

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Are a little less and and catch that little less a

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Little less now we rightly identify anyone who says that black people are less than white people as Disgusting racists who should be rejected

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This man is a racist who needs to be rejected It's the same thing if you can't say that you no longer have any basis whatsoever for ever objecting to real

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Sinful destructive racism because this is real sinful destructive racism. It's based on ignorance

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But it's still a matter of the heart. It's a matter of the soul now.

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He's been lied to it needs to be corrected But it's still racism And where the term actually comes from because I'm bringing it all the way back around to minister

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Farrakhan to where that's at to whom minister Farrakhan Remember Farrakhan says white people are demons.

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They're subhuman demons That's where this is coming this has been in the community for decades

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White devils. Yeah, that's been in the community for decades It is a

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Form of black supremacy It has no

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Advantage over the Ku Klux Klan or anything that came out of that time period at all.

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It's just as bad It's just as reprehensible. It needs to be condemned just as clearly it needs to be refuted just as clearly as anything like that So this is the there's no difference between this and a

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Nazi skinhead Doing the same thing in reverse. It's all lies and It's racism

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The the real ugly kind of racism which can't talk about anymore Because the term has been redefined to mean all sorts of other stuff like well, you're not a

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Marxist And that allows this stuff Notice the communist symbols in the background that allows this stuff to then do its thing they may not have the compassion or the

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When they were sent to the mountains of Caucasus when they when they didn't have the power of the

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Sun That was that the Sun then started to deteriorate So then they're acting out of Fear they're acting out of low self -esteem.

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They're acting out of a Deficiency. So therefore the only way that they can act is evil

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The only way they can they have to rob steal rape kill and fight a flight or in order to survive

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Exactly. So then these people who didn't have what we had and when I say we I speak of the

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Melanated people right they had to be savages they had to be barbaric

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They had because they're in these Nordic mountains. They're in these rough torrential environments

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So they they're acting as animals, right? So they're the ones that are actually closer to animals

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They're the ones that are actually The true savages and then they built up such this this

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I want to say warrior, but they built up such this this Conquering Barbaric mentality, okay, that's all

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I've got in that clip. I'm not sure why that was but Wow that I mean you have to of course completely rewrite all of history

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So Leonardo da Vinci he was a an animal just You have to completely ignore the history of Europe and it has has every people had their savages

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Oh, yeah. Oh Yeah in many instances those people are

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Some reason combined tremendous genius. I'm thinking again. I just like I mentioned a week so I just finished a book on Alexander the

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Great Wow Todd it is hard to hold Alexander the Great together because I Think I think you could probably argue there has never been a greater military genius

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Or a or a more brave warrior than Alexander the Great He would not ask his men to do anything.

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He wouldn't do he led his men to battle He was in the middle of himself. He was wounded out and how many times?

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Just an incredible warrior and as far as a tactician His battles are studied to this day in war colleges around the world he was

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Brilliant, but he was as evil as the day is long in slaved hundreds of thousands of people killed hundreds of thousands of people and Extended the

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Greek Empire all the way to India Nobody's ever done what Alexander the Great is done

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Did I have something to do with melanin? Nope didn't have anything to do with melanin anybody who says that I do is melon is and completely out of their mind

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Completely out of their mind has nothing to do with melanin at all He defeated people with little melanin.

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He defeated people with lots of melanin. He invaded Egypt Conquered Egypt He defeated

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Africans and Arabs and Indians and Caucasians. He defeated the rainbow

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He really did These people don't know anything about history or that all they've heard is the stupidity the racist stupidity of Louis Farrakhan and They simply believe it.

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They simply believe it and We have had black brothers

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Fighting this stuff in the black community all along and they've probably felt they're pretty much alone and Part of is because most of us just couldn't even can't we can't wrap our minds around Because I don't

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I've never met honestly. I've never met a white person that thinks like this in reverse I just haven't are they out there?

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Yeah, but they ain't gonna be talking to me because they know better But it's all over the black community and that's black supremacy black racism

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But we're told today there's no such thing as black racism you can play it and I will be attacked for saying there's black racism when you listen to people saying white people are

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Closer to animals. They're savages. They're lesser than us. Well, that's not black racism

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Yes, it is by any meaningful definition of the word it is That's just stunning

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It's just see that the reparations thing is just silly because there ain't that much money in the world this results in people dying

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This this this results this will unless God intervenes This will result in death in the streets.

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It will It will huh?

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Little less closer to animals true savages Acting out of a deficiency Where your your body actually regulates how much energy it allocates to producing stuff that shields you from the

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Sun Your body is actually smart enough to know well, it's not the body is smart enough to know

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It's the mechanisms were built into the body by the Creator or the neo -darwins will say that developed over millions and millions and millions of Years unguided complete accident.

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Yeah, there you go Wow That's that's just and Ken Ken 1689 good brother on on Twitter He is

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Melanated as to use terminology had said in a tweet. This is the fruit of sin the teachings of Farrakhan There is a time when blacks were called savages animals less than human and this was deemed racist

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Well, the woke have been given a pass to call white people closer to animals and true savages fascinating Times.

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Yeah Fascinating sad times is is really what what that's all about Amazing stuff to see that kind of thing.

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It really really is I Don't see any.

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Oh, okay, Daryl Harrison It's ironic the cannon speaks

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So magnanimously about the inherent moral and ethical virtues of melanin when those benefits seem to not carry over to how melanated people often treat

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One another the black and black crime rates and black abortion rates speak for themselves. No kidding

34:38

Just look at the major cities. I didn't I didn't even bother to look how many people died in Chicago this weekend

34:44

How many people died in New York this weekend? Yeah, well the nice thing well and the nice thing is nobody died of kovat in New York But many more people died from this stuff

34:55

Might tell you a little something about the lack of priorities or the upside -down priorities today

35:00

What what I think of when I watch that clip the one I played

35:06

I Hesitate to bring this up because I know what happened to him and you probably might remember too.

35:11

Do you remember Jimmy the Greek Snyder? Yeah early 1980s he was asked a question and His answer he was never to be heard from in media again

35:25

Yeah, but he was a white man giving a less Racist answer a racist answer wasn't he asked why black athletes succeeded so well.

35:34

Yes Yes, and he he tied it back to the breeding that took place during slavery.

35:40

Ah Okay, and he was never T was drummed out of media and those people never heard him again never again.

35:47

Yep. Yep. Yep Yeah, I hope I honestly hope that that clip goes far and wide it needs to you know, the other thing is

35:57

No, you know who who has Nick Cannon's old job right now, I Don't I'll be honest with you.

36:05

I Recognize the name, but I don't know Terry Cruz has his job now really

36:11

What was his job? He was the emcee on America's Got Talent and Terry Cruz is now.

36:19

Oh Well for now and then Nick's now over on a mass. Oh, that's where I see

36:27

Okay I'm not I'm not real good With names of stars and who's doing what on what programs?

36:36

I don't spend enough time in front of a TV to follow that stuff. But yeah that that that rings a bell now

36:43

Yeah, that rings a bell. Yeah, appreciate that Okay We will

36:49

I will try later today or tomorrow to get posted the links

36:55

For Friday's roundtable discussion slash debate Where what's that?

37:03

yeah, yeah, well you should be um, I Think it's seven o 'clock my time

37:10

No, six o 'clock six o 'clock my time. I'll check out but Friday We're gonna we're gonna do a program on Thursday Not gonna do two programs this week.

37:21

It's gonna be like a regular dividing line week for the first time a long time On Friday though, you'll get to get a couple more hours in if you want because Friday evening is an apologetics roundtable slash debate and it will be live on YouTube similar to this and it will involve four

37:47

Four different positions, but I'll be perfectly honest with you only three different positions on apologetics Randall Rouser is going to be presenting his reformed epistemology perspective.

37:57

I don't I don't really see that as an apologetic methodology I'm not really sure how it fits in but He's gonna be one of the four and then you've got

38:07

Jonathan McClatchy will be presenting evidentialism and Dr.

38:13

Howell from SES there's two dr. Howell's at SES, but the dr. Howell that I had my dialogue with on presuppositionalism

38:22

Whenever that was that we went back there. I forget what year that was. It's been in the past six years somewhere on there

38:29

I think anyway he's gonna be presenting what's called the classical or Thomas Aquinas style perspective and then

38:41

I am the panel's presuppositionalist and So that's that's gonna be

38:49

I think really interesting I'm gonna be doing it from home we

38:54

I'm gonna be trying to set some things up tonight and testing some things to see how it's gonna work as we're all gonna be on zoom and then that's gonna be fed into a

39:04

Some some way of getting that onto YouTube probably similar to the way how we do things and when we do the same type of stuff and so that's gonna be

39:13

Friday evening a comparison of these forms of apologetics

39:19

And so I hope folks will be looking forward to that. I'm certainly focused upon that right now that's an important thing to be preparing for and So one of the things

39:32

I wanted to do is I wanted to sort of preemptively Respond to One of the folks that I'll be speaking with Jonathan McClatchy wrote a article says updated

39:52

July 7th, so it's fairly Recently and It is entitled the noetic effects of sin and apologetic methodology now noetic effect

40:04

Of course, the noose is the mind in Greek and so a noetic effect is the impact upon the mind of man of sin and What you're gonna hear coming up over and over again, so it can come out of my mouth during this discussion is that theology determines apologetics and Therefore the reason

40:28

I'm presuppositional is because when I apply the same methodologies of interpretation, that's what I come up with When I'm also presenting the doctrines of grace, we just started a doctrines of grace series at apologia

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Jeff started Sunday night gonna be continuing that this coming Sunday and then the Sunday after that I'll be

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Joining in that particular series as we present the doctrines of grace Eventually Jeff is gonna get back to Matthew, but It's just simply we've had so many people joining us and new folks that it's it's good to make sure people understand where we're coming from and and stuff like that and So anyway

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The Fundamental assertion I'm going to be making over and over again is the necessity of Recognizing that we have to start with the

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Bible teaches about who God is who Christ is and who man is in doing apologetics we cannot

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Since the Bible teaches us there is no such thing as a neutral ground Since the

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Bible presents the myth of neutrality since the Bible teaches us the radical idea that everything that exists

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Exists because God created it and defined it Then our apologetic methodology cannot abandon that foundation out of some misguided idea that Mankind Will stop being a rebel sinner and will stop suppressing the knowledge of God and will just Listen to our arguments from a unbiased perspective.

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We have to recognize that's simply not going to happen and Therefore those presuppositions that are a part of the rebellion of The sinners worldview have to be dealt with they have to be kept in mind.

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We cannot grant them a Standing that they should not have

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So the noetic effect of sin is simply a recognition of the biblical teaching that The fall

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Impacted all of man when we talk about total depravity We are not talking about Depravity that results man in man being the worst he can be

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We are not saying that the image of God is destroyed in man It is altered.

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It is diminished. It is warped, but it is not Destroyed and done away with it's common for Reformed people to be misrepresented and saying that the image of God is gone it is not but what does happen is you have consistent rebellion you have the suppression of the knowledge of God and so When I was reading

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Jonathan's article, I was I was a little taken aback to be honest with you

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Let me read a little bit some of it here for you. So you can get a get a sense He says proponents the presuppositional school of apologetics typically stress the vitality of reckoning with the noetic effects of sin

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That is the effect of the fall upon the mind from the Greek word for my noose Ventillians argue that sin has corrupted man's ability to properly comprehend the things of God and understand spiritual things.

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Well, that's What Paul says in 1st Corinthians? And Romans in Particular sin is understood to have impacted our ability to reason and think rationally especially in relation to God Well, if you're constantly suppressing knowledge

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God, that's that's correct Of the apologetic systems the noetic effect of sin is emphasized only by presuppositional us now

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I I would question that I have thankfully talked with Evidentialists classicalists, there's a lot of people that don't really make much of a distinction between the two

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But I've talked to a number of people that That do recognize The noetic effect of sin and do recognize that apart from the

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Reparative work of the Spirit maybe in some type of prevenient grace type idea, but still some supernatural

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Impact of the work of the Spirit of God You're not gonna you're not gonna get past that fundamental rebellion that the sinner is in Cornelius Vantill gives the following analogy to illustrate what he means by the noetic effects of sin now

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What's interesting here is I want you he quotes from Vantill. I'm gonna read you Vantill's example It's it's one of the one of the ones is well -known if you've read

45:24

Vantill you've already read this one But I want you to hear what Vantill said and then notice how

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Jonathan McClatchy interprets it because he does not he Misinterprets what Vantill says and This seems it seems extremely common and it goes back to your theology theology determines apologetics

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And it goes back to what you believe about man So listen to what Vantill said the intellect of fallen man may be compared to a buzzsaw

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That is sharp and shining ready to cut the boards that come to it Let us say that a carpenter wishes to cut 50 boards the purpose of laying the floor of a house

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He has marked his boards he has set his saw He begins at one end of the mark on the board

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But he does not know that his seven -year -old son has tampered with the saw and changed its set the result is that every board he saws is cut slantwise and that's unusual because too short except at the point where the saw first made its contact with the wood as Long as the set of the saw is not changed.

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The result will always be the same So also whenever the teachings

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Christianity are presented the natural man They will be cut according to the set of the sinful human personality.

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Okay, so Vantill is saying is that in that set of the saw if you don't have that set to where it's going to cut straight

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It's going to consistently Miss the mark it's going to produce something that's going to be twisted and warped and Basically unusual and it's gonna do so consistently over time

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That's his analogy. That's what he's saying. And that's Paul's point in Romans chapter 1

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The rebellion of man and sin impacts all of human thought professing themselves to be wise they became fools

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Their foolish hearts were darkened that darkening of The heart is the very inner aspect of man.

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There's there's nothing more personal than that So know so Jonathan says he says

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I would argue However that while the Imago Dei is effaced by human sin, it is not erased stop

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Vantill never said it was We don't believe it was I Know Geisler said we said that and I've heard lots it.

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It is a common myth It's a common myth We do not

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Teach that the image of God has been erased and Vantill didn't say anything about erasure of the image of God He's talking about the set of the saw is the function that presuppositions have in the determination of a worldview and so if you have a person who is

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Suppressing the knowledge of God and there are many ways of doing that the atheists can do it. The religious person can do it

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You can have religious oppression. You can have non -religious oppression. You can have plain old Addiction Utilization of drugs and alcohol is a form of the suppression of the knowledge of God There are lots of different ways of doing it

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That does not mean that the Imago Dei has been erased but these presuppositions change the set of the saw so that when the

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Revelation of God's truth comes to the rebel sinner It is twisted and altered so that that truth is deflected from revealing the key issue

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And that is you are the creature of God and you are in rebellion against God You don't have any right to be sitting up there on that throne.

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That's God's throne You don't have any right to be up there. You cannot put God in the dock and Judge God you are his creature.

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He made you he has perfect right over you and whatever You've got to do to the set of the saw

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To keep it from cutting into that. That's what you do. You can do it religiously. You can do it secularly

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You can do it in all sorts of ways. So No one is saying that the

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Imago Dei is erased Okay He says

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I do not believe that sin renders us totally incapable of rational thought well

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How do you define rational? if the if we are made

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To think God's thoughts if we are made to honor and glorify him in all things

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Then the most perfect rational thought will be that thought that is in complete

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Harmony with and submission to the lordship of God in all things

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That that would be the most rational thought so if I am suppressing the knowledge of God then

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I there are many Unbelievers who can teach symbolic logic

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But they cannot account for why what they teach one semester is

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The same as what they teach another semester So they cannot account for the origin of the consistency of those laws of thought

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But they can teach the laws of thought and I have met I remember when

51:08

I wrote The little book What's with the mutant the microscope?

51:13

I really wish those have been kept in print What's what was what's with the mutant the microscope for junior high schoolers?

51:20

But a lot of adults found it to be extremely useful. Anyways, one of the Things I point out is back when as I said earlier in the program,

51:28

I was department fellow anatomy physiology I was at a Christian college, but we did not use

51:33

Christian textbooks So we had secular scientific textbooks written by unbelievers promoting evolutionary theory naturalistic worldview so on so forth

51:46

Yet in those very textbooks The authors because they're made in the image of God could not avoid but use language when you see the complexity of life and It's plain and obvious design they would

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Let the mask slip. This was back before urban to wear them all the time They would let the math this the other mask the mask of hiding

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They'd let the mask slip and they would say things they would actually use terms like beautiful of The interactive complexity of biological systems well and Then they might a few sentences later try to sort of Admit, they shouldn't have talked about design and things like that, but they can't help themselves.

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They cannot help themselves and so What do you what what is meant by rational thought?

52:55

if You think what we're saying is unless you're a Christian. You can't do calculus or geometry or trigonometry

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I Was never really big into the mathematics, but the thing I love the most was when we did geometric proofs and Stuff like that.

53:14

I thought that was that was awesome. That was sophomore year in high school, and I thought that was great There were other guys in the class there weren't believers that could do the exact same thing

53:23

I could So we're not saying that what we are saying is that as long as you are and this is theology determines apologetics the

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Christian faith says every person is the creature of God the creation of God and Therefore if you live in such a way as to consistently suppress that reality

53:53

Then there you are not going to be perfectly rational. It's the it's the consistency issue that comes up here

54:01

What you're doing up here isn't going to connect down here with the foundation. That's what that's where the issue is

54:17

Okay, I Conversation between Bonson and Sproul on these issues The best pagan thinkers can still spot errors of logic without being born again

54:25

You don't have to be regenerate in order to get a PhD in mathematics. Yes, that's what RC said but RC would have

54:33

Totally disagreed with everything that came before this and Jonathan McClatchy. I can guarantee you that I can guarantee you that He would not have agreed that what even the presuppositional is saying is

54:47

That the Imago Dei has been erased and He would agree with what

54:53

I just said in regards to the suppression of the knowledge of God. He would just Do that.

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I'm not saying you're going because I knew RC, you know, we had dinner. I'm not saying that I'm saying because I've listened to his dialogue with Greg Bonson listened to it twice recently

55:13

To refresh my mind on it and it was recorded years and years ago Very very clear very very clear

55:23

So Indeed the suppression described in Romans 1 18 to 20 is

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I would suggest a voluntary one Though one lapsed into easily enough due perhaps to ordinary cognitive biases

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That is why Paul can describe the unbeliever as being without excuse he could do better if he tried

55:47

But he does not Thus in the relevant sense in which presuppositional is have in mind

55:54

I am not convinced that there is such a thing as the noetic effects of sin

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Wow Okay, that's that's a huge gap.

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That is a chasm And That that is a chasm

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That only a few have been willing to stand on that other side down through the history of the church

56:28

With quite that boldness even those who affirmed a concept of freedom of the will

56:39

Wanted to recognize Biblical teaching on this subject and that's where prevenient grace came from and stuff like that Just to simply boldly say there is no sin does not affect the mind of man really

56:54

Leaves you in a difficult spot And so I'd like to compare that with the text of Scripture Specifically in Romans chapter 1

57:05

I'd like to go through I'm not gonna have time to do this on Friday night I'm not and I'm not gonna sit there and go. Well, just listen to what

57:11

I said before this is just simply what I'm thinking about and Assuming it's gonna be coming up And so I thought

57:19

I would Share it on the program today and whenever I just get done with this we'll be we'll wrap things up and we will we'll be done

57:29

So How can one come to that type of a conclusion in light of?

57:37

Not only the Passages that say to speak of man's inability No one can come to me unless the

57:45

Father sent me. Couldn't you? Couldn't you come up with? Couldn't you observe?

57:53

the ministry of Jesus and come the conclusion that you should follow him just simply from a

58:00

Unbiased examination of the facts. It seems to be what's being said Jesus teaching is no

58:09

You will only hear his words when you belong to God not by you choosing to belong to God By God choosing you to belong to him.

58:19

Then you can hear his words and follow after him That's the order of John 6 John 8

58:24

John 10 so you you have those Clear passages of Scripture along that those lines

58:32

But I just don't see how any of that deals the Romans chapter 1 and and I know that Romans chapter 1 is gonna come up because Randall Rouser's Hypothesis posits a truly unique reading of Romans chapter 1 as well

58:48

So let's remind ourselves of something. We've spoken of many many times before Romans chapter 1 verse 18

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For the wrath of God is being Revealed From heaven present tense reality present tense reality, it's it's

59:09

There is a sense in which the full wrath of God is eschatological in the final state the final judgment

59:18

But it is necessary in light of the continuing presence of human sin for the wrath of God to be being expressed

59:24

It is restrained Because obviously if it were just simply to break forth in its fullness you just Destroy all of humankind, but that isn't what he's chosen to do.

59:34

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all Ungodliness not just some there's a lot of people that want to try to say

59:42

Romans 1 is just about a certain group of people No, this says all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men and then who what men?

59:53

the ones the truth in unrighteousness Unrighteousness catechon tones suppressing suppressing the truth and unrighteousness

01:00:01

Now there there are people who would say this is just a particular group of idolaters that Paul's referring to it is not

01:00:08

When you look at Romans 1 2 & 3 Together you discover that Paul provides his own

01:00:16

Concluding interpretation in chapter 3. He says we have concluded that all men are under sin

01:00:25

Well, where did he do that? Chapter 2 is about the Jews because the

01:00:30

Jews could agree with what he said about the rest the Gentiles in Romans chapter 1 so his own interpretation of his own words is

01:00:40

That we are talking about universal sinfulness here and this point is going to be he is talking universally in Romans chapter 1

01:00:47

He asked to address the Jews separately in Romans chapter 2 because they already knew this stuff

01:00:52

They already said yes, this is the problem with the Gentiles and didn't realize they were doing the same things

01:01:00

Just in a different way so the wrath of God is aimed against the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men and Then you have a descriptive the use of tone

01:01:12

Wrapping up a phrase referring us back to Anthropon the the truth in unrighteousness suppressing ones

01:01:20

So this is the description The person who is not in proper relationship to God is the person who is suppressing got a content active

01:01:33

There is a suppression of the knowledge of God now people want to argue about well, how

01:01:42

How Cognizant how conscience conscious are people of this suppression

01:01:53

The guy who just goes out every weekend and fulfills his lusts and gets drunk and just does his thing is not nearly as Focused upon the reality of that suppression as someone else it's still

01:02:15

Suppression of the knowledge of God and here's the this is why this is important. This is fundamental to apologetics

01:02:22

If you believe at Romans chapter 1 says about man, it will determine how you do apologetics.

01:02:28

It really will Because you you're recognizing what this means

01:02:35

About mankind so they are suppressing the truth of God and righteousness because that which is known not knowable

01:02:43

Known this is key. There's a there's a teacher here in the valley that years and years ago

01:02:48

I had to engage on this and he's still teaching this and has caused all sorts of problems, but What is known of God?

01:02:57

Not just theoretically not known but what is known of God is manifest in Altoise Which can be within them or amongst them

01:03:12

Depending how you want to look at so you could you could be looking at an internal witness You can be looking at an internal witness in the community

01:03:21

General revelation, which is what's gonna be coming up afterwards Could be both but it is known of God Not theoretically but in reality

01:03:35

Is manifest amongst them for God Manifest it to them.

01:03:41

This is a divine action. God is the subject of the verb if on narrow sin

01:03:47

He is the one who has made the revelation to them and The whole point of Paul's assertion is going to be that revelation gets through God Manifested it to them

01:04:04

Romans 119 for and the the

01:04:14

Greek word order of Romans 120 and the English word order of Romans 120 are

01:04:20

Really different for the invisible things of him from the creation of the world to the things that have been made

01:04:36

Have been Clearly seen and then you have a

01:04:42

Phrase that describes. Well, what are the invisible things of him? What what what are his invisible attributes that have been?

01:04:50

Revealed well his eternal power and Thyatis Which the

01:04:59

King James mistranslates as being identical to Thyatis at Colossians 2 9 translates both of them as Godhead whatever in the world that means

01:05:08

Here, it's divine nature and Colossians 2 9 is different word. It means that which makes God God. This is a less

01:05:14

Strong term than what you have in Colossians 2 9 So his Eternal power and divine nature are these invisible?

01:05:24

Attributes which have been made known. I start I night out to son of all gettysues so with the result that The result of this revelation is that they are unapologetus.

01:05:39

They are without an apologetic they are without a consistent

01:05:45

Defense it does not say they have no arguments It does not say that these people are stupid and they just sit there and go.

01:05:52

I'm an atheist and you're dumb that Not what it's saying at all unapologetus

01:05:59

Would mean that there is no consistent Defense for their suppression of the knowledge of God In light of what in light of the action of God verse 19

01:06:13

Where he has revealed these things the only way to understand this is it's gotten through it's gotten through and I just I Want to challenge the classicalist.

01:06:28

I want to challenge the evidentialist This is saying they are unapologetus

01:06:36

Do you treat them as if they are apologetus? Do you treat them as if they're when you step on to Allegedly neutral ground

01:06:52

With the atheist with the skeptic Are you not admitting that they have the same apologetic you do is?

01:07:03

They're not an act of compromise You see I don't believe in the myth of neutrality

01:07:09

I do not believe there is any place I can stand in The universe that Jesus created in the universe that according to Colossians chapter 1 all things

01:07:21

Soonest they can in him they hold together. They have their coherence in him

01:07:29

Where's the neutral spot there is no neutral spot there can't be a neutral spot.

01:07:36

It's impossible If you stand on it Jesus created it and defined it so it's not neutral to its creator

01:07:45

Right. That's why theology must determine apologetics and not the other way around.

01:07:52

There's no there's no neutral spot but if I for a moment concede and Some people say well, it's just for the sake of argument

01:08:04

But it's a fundamental denial of the central aspect of my worldview If I for a moment concede

01:08:12

That they have an apologetic that they can present a consistent argument

01:08:18

I am contradicting Paul at Romans 1 20. He says they're unapologetic my apologetic my apologetic must contain within it the reality that they

01:08:32

Don't have that and that's what the presuppositional is trying to say. The presuppositional is saying you

01:08:39

Critique you provide the internal critique of the argumentation because it can't hold up They are living in a world

01:08:48

That God made while trying to deny that he's there They will eventually trip up They will eventually trip up you provide the internal critique because they are unapologetous

01:09:06

So they're without excuse For Even though they knew

01:09:12

God That that's that's a direct statement. Did they or did they not if if you don't like that idea?

01:09:22

Then take it up with the Apostle Paul. I didn't write it But it says even though they knew

01:09:29

God and that's why so many people try to go. Well, okay This is clearly about some group.

01:09:35

We're just not sure who it was Because this this just can't be everybody no it is that's why they're unapologetous they live in God's world

01:09:44

They're made in his image Even though they knew

01:09:50

God They did not do what here are the two things that mankind is accountable

01:09:59

To God to do based on simply bearing his image and living in his world

01:10:07

Without special revelation without Genesis through revelation without a can of scripture the savage on the unreached island and there's still a few of them out there is held accountable in light of the clarity of the revelation of God to glorify

01:10:31

God and Give thanks you could have so To give thanks for even though the new

01:10:40

God they did not Glorify him as God or give thanks to him the

01:10:49

Revelation is clear enough to reveal to them that they should do this But they do not

01:10:57

But and here we go They became futile

01:11:05

Empty And toys dialog is moist in their reasoning their dialogue

01:11:18

That this is part of the innermost part of man If you will not do if you will not give to your creator

01:11:28

What creation shows you you should give to your creator? You will not escape

01:11:38

Result the result is becoming futile empty worthless in the reasonings of your heart and They're foolish.

01:11:51

That is non understanding heart was darkened

01:11:58

Their foolish heart was darkened This is the inevitable result of rebellion against the

01:12:07

Creator No neutrality This isn't just some special group that fell into a special kind of sin because Paul's own

01:12:17

Interpretation Romans chapter 3 we've concluded everybody is under sin. That's Romans 1.

01:12:22

That's Romans 2 Ties them together in Romans 3 They're all under sin their non -understanding heart is

01:12:35

Darkened Darkened now If that's not the noetic effect of sin

01:12:41

I Jonathan I'm gonna be asking you You I'm giving you a couple days

01:12:48

This is a question. I'm gonna ask you this seems to me to be

01:12:57

Without argumentation Their foolish hearts are darkened That explains why in first Corinthians Same message the same message

01:13:10

Jew and Gentile Stumbling block Mordia foolishness

01:13:19

To those who are who are perishing Same message they can't understand it.

01:13:27

It's foolishness to them, but to those who are being saved Christ the power of God the wisdom of God that's same possible here

01:13:38

Their foolish hearts were darkened and Professing themselves safoy

01:13:49

Exact the exact same two terms used in first Corinthians chapter 1 are right here safoy and moron

01:13:58

Moroy here in the verbal form a moron they sawn they were made foolish

01:14:05

They became fools Professing to be wise but standing outside of The lordship of their creator as if they can in some way

01:14:22

Find a ground to stand on there's there's no place to stand There's no place to stand and then keep verse 23 the exchange the exchange it's gonna come up again verse 25 the exchange and And exchange the glory of the incorruptible

01:14:40

God for an image and iconos in the likeness of corruptible man and of birds and Tetra pod owned simply means four footed four -legged creatures and Crawling creatures herpetomes could be snakes and things like that, but Might be a little bit wider than that.

01:15:09

It's use they exchanged this exchange is key to understanding what

01:15:18

Paul is talking about here and Again, what it demonstrates is this sin impacts all of man.

01:15:25

That's what total depravity is all about There is no aspect of man including the noose

01:15:33

That is not darkened and impacted by sin by rebellion

01:15:42

Therefore God gave them over in The desires of their hearts to unclean this so they might dishonor their bodies amongst themselves

01:15:55

So if you're willing to exchange the glory of the incorruptible God For the creature for the creation because that's that's what this is all about.

01:16:03

Here's what idolatry looks like It's the great exchange God has revealed himself.

01:16:10

He's revealed himself with clarity, but you got the great exchange and So he gives them over in the lust of their hearts to impurity

01:16:21

So they might dishonor their bodies amongst themselves for they

01:16:29

Exchanged same root just to strengthen form the truth of God for the lie

01:16:37

The truth of God for the lie remember what Paul said we wrote to Thessalonians if you don't love the truth

01:16:43

God will cause you to love the lie There can be no there's there's no neutrality. It's one or the other and Worshipped and served the creation the created order

01:17:02

Rather than the one who made it the Creator Who is blessed forever. Amen.

01:17:08

So here is the very nature of what this rebellion is and Paul's whole point is

01:17:16

That all of man is impacted by the suppression of the knowledge of God no neutrality

01:17:28

No place to go. I think this is perfectly in line

01:17:35

With what he says in Romans chapter 8 About those who are according to flesh cannot please God. They can't submit themselves to God it's perfectly in line with first Corinthians chapter 1 and 2 and as such must be the determinative aspect of What we as Christians under the authority of Scripture conclude in regards to How we do apologetics we have to allow the scriptures to define who it is we're dealing with and what their spiritual condition is.

01:18:11

I'm not I can't sit there and Dig through all the layers of deception. I Have a true

01:18:19

Diagnosis in Scripture itself and therefore can seek to be consistent in my apologetic approach

01:18:29

Because I've allowed Scripture to find who God is the creator of all things who

01:18:35

Jesus is and Then who that person is I'm seeking to reach vitally important.

01:18:45

So That's where my challenge is gonna be You want to talk about the noetic effects of sin?

01:18:52

There it is. It goes on from there homosexuality in verses 26 27 is a part of The demonstration of what the noetic effects of sin really are that Is a that is an aspect even that definitional sexual aspect of mankind is perverted by the rebellion that's the point of Romans chapter 1

01:19:21

So there you go. You've got some idea of What we're gonna be talking about except we only have

01:19:30

You do the seven minutes Yeah, yeah, yeah you have seven minutes to make your presentation as to why

01:19:41

Your viewpoint is how Christians should defend the faith and then we've got questions and so it'll be it'll be fast there's there's no tways about it, but that's what

01:19:50

I wanted to take some time and address that in a little bit fuller fuller fashion there, so hopefully that was useful to you and Maybe challenging if that's not your perspective to think through where we're coming from on that so but we do have one more program during the week on Thursday here and Thank you for listening the program today.