Speaking Requirements and Carnal Christianity

Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry, Duplex Gratia Radio. One day I think I'm going to keep the name NoCo, and the next day I think I'm going to change it. Anyway, thanks for your encouragement. I'm feeling better.

I'm a little farther removed from the latest COVID. Everybody says, oh, this COVID is just like you get a little cold. Well, I wish that was the case for me, but anyway, I'm alive and I didn't have to be on high flow oxygen.

I didn't have to go to the hospital. I didn't have to have any breathing treatments. I just had, what did I have? Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, a steroid inhaler, a lot of chicken soup and good food from the church.

They brought it over. What I would do is someone would say, when's a good time to bring a meal over? I said, anytime, I'm stuck at home. How about 530? And then I would sit outside on the little table there, kind of a nice table we have in the front yard, not a picnic table, but this round table and umbrella chairs.

And then they could bring me the food, set it down and quick back up. And then they would, I would pull my chair back. They'd pull their chair back, that imaginary six foot deal. And then we would just talk sometimes for like an hour, an hour and a half, 15 minutes.

It was wonderful. So I thank you Bethlehem Bible Church. Over the years, people have said it critiquingly. I know that's not a word. Bethlehem Bible Church is not loving. I mean, that's just what people say.

I think when they want an excuse to say something about a church, like, well, what do you mean exactly? Like the moving ministry where we move people all the time, the ministry that we have when we're sending all the meals over to the new moms, you know, all that kind of stuff over and over and over.

Very loving church. Glad to be the pastor. Well, today is Friday the 13th in real time, September, Friday the 13th. Whenever I fly, I try to fly on aisle 13, row 13 rather, because I'm hoping no one sits next to me because they're afraid.

So far it hasn't worked out. When I used to work in the operating rooms selling coterie units, large hospitals, I was thinking about maybe Sunrise Hospital in Las Vegas. Let's say they had 22 or something.

If memory serves, 20 operating room suites. You can never find 13. You never wanted to be operated on in operating room 13. You can always write me, Mike at NoCompromiseRadio .com. I'm thankful for our Patreon supporters, and one of them I got to visit with this summer.

He and his wife are from Monterey, and Nick and Desiree, I'm glad I got to hang out with you. Sharp couple. I mean, theologians. I guess that's how all you No Compromise Radio listeners are. It was very refreshing, wonderful.

I was at Santa Cruz Baptist Church, our summer church. Pastor Drew Cunningham, and I preached, and then we went out to lunch with Nick and Desiree. All right, well, what's on board for today? I want to talk a little bit about what Christians require when they go speak someplace.

In one sense, you might say to yourself, well, that's not really a good podcast. Well, that's true, but after 4 ,000 podcasts, what are we going to talk about? Sometimes I get asked to speak, and they'll say, well, how much money do you require?

What are your requirements for the green room and green M &Ms? Do you have to have your wife fly with you? Do you have to fly first class? That kind of stuff. And so I think those are fair questions. Sometimes churches just don't know how much to pay.

What do you normally get paid? We don't even know. And I guess there's legit questions like that that can be asked and answered. But I, and also all my friends that are pastors and speakers, theologians, big shots, not one of my friends, because if they did the opposite of what I'm going to say, would no longer be my friend.

That's how fickle I am. No one that I know of says this is what I require when I come and speak. Financially, I've got to bring somebody else. First class, I'm not going to speak unless there are 500 people there or 1 ,000 people.

I get the rights for the video and audio. No one does that. Now, if someone says, you know, I'm allergic to gluten, and so my requirement would be, my request would be, I have a, you know, I have a stomach thing, I have something I can't eat or can eat, something like that.

Okay, fine. I just usually say, I'll have whatever you serve me. I also think that if someone says, the receiving church, well, we don't really have a budget for a hotel. Would you mind staying at someone's home?

That's actually more fun because you get to know the people. And all you have to do is say, excuse me, you know, it's after dinner and I just need to study for my five messages tomorrow. I mean, you can do that very easily.

So today I want to just say that if we are Christian people, we are ministers, servants of the gospel, the gospel is free. And I think if you're a church and you have a speaker in for the weekend, you ought to take care of that speaker.

I think when that speaker gets into his room or the hotel, there should be like a little gift bag there, welcome, a couple of waters and a couple of protein bars or something. I think that's nice. I think that would show love.

I think someone picking them up at the airport and making sure they get to where they need to be would show them love. I think on the downtime, you could ask them, do you want to rest or do you want to go see the tourist sites?

I think that would be loving, making sure everything's taken care of. If you go out to dinner, I think you should buy the dinner for the speaker. I think there should be a decent honorarium for the speaker.

I think you should say to the speaker, if you have some books, would you like to have somebody here at the church put the books up and we can sell the books? I don't mind any of that, but none of it's required.

I think of S. Lewis Johnson, mighty in the hands of God. All of God's grace, that's true, but he was an awesome exegete, an awesome preacher, and an awesome author. That's few and far between when people can do all three.

I think I can speak better than I can write. You can be the judge of that. But he would go, for instance, up to Portland, and he would be asked to speak by the Custoses up in Portland. And a smaller church, not a mega church or anything like that.

And Lewis would never say, how much money do I get? Where are you going to put me up? I don't really want to do the summer camp because it's in the woods and it's like, you know, camp kind of conditions, camp food.

He would just go.

So if you get asked to go, you can always say no, I'm sorry, that doesn't work out. Those dates don't work out. Gone too far away from my family. Several times this year, somebody's asked me to come and speak, actually up in Portland and other places.

And I just said, you know what? Thank you. I've been out of the pulpit quite a bit, and I just need to stay home.

But Pat, Pat Abedrogi, go.

Anyway, I just want us to think Christianly. Here at Bethlehem Bible Church, if we ask a speaker to come and speak, our last two speakers, Phil Howard, Steve Meister, Scott Clark, I think those were our last three.

Not one of those men said to me, how much are you going to pay me? They assume that they're going to get paid, and we paid each one of them. Hopefully it was a good check and it was worth their time. I think churches that have somebody come in to do pulpit supply should give them an honorarium to do that.

The men that I train here at Bethlehem Bible Church to go out to other churches to fill the pulpit on Sundays in local New England churches, I tell them if you're doing it for the money, I don't want you to be in this program.

But if they hand you a check and you're not in it for the money, you just put it in your pocket and say thank you very much and smile. Then take your wife out, buy her a dress. You probably had to spend more time away from her because of your studies for this sermon.

And I would tell the church if they'd call me, I know one of your guys is coming over to speak. Do you expect to give, should we give them an honorarium? I think the church needs to realize, yes, that's something that the Lord provides.

That is a gospel-centered, verse-by-verse message, and we should pay the man for his time, for travel, for mileage, etc. All that to say here on No Compromise Radio, I have in front of me a website of someone, a pretty well-known Christian.

And on their speaking schedule page, they give the requirements. Now, it's okay if you have a page that says, you know what, if you'd like me to come and speak, what days, what's the topic, where are you, how close is the airport, I guess.

I don't like that last question, but fine. Okay, all right, fine. Then it's like, you don't have to email me, right? If you want me to come and speak someplace, then you write me, mike at nocompromiseradio .com.

And you put little emojis in there with the green M &Ms. That's how you do it. So, I don't mind the page. Well, I kind of mind the page, but not as much as what's on the page. If it's just data, fine.

But I'm going to read some of the things that are on this page. I'm going to read them verbatim. And if you'd like to schedule a conference, then what do you do? It says, please carefully read this entire page.

Underline bold, larger font. Remember that if for any reason you aren't able to fulfill these requirements, you can still have this Bible teaching, this Bible teacher's teaching in your church. Head over to the online store for the video studies you need and set up a conference for your women.

If you can't jump through all these hoops to get the person there, then you can just buy some of the video series and put it up on the screen. You can have your conference anyway. Now, it's going to get worse.

I'm just showing you this because there are other people like this in evangelicalism. And, of course, do I struggle with sin? The answer is yes. I hate it. But I try not to do this. And much of Christianity, I think, has some carnal elements.

The big Eva, big evangelicalism has carnal elements like this. And I just think when I read this, you're telling me I would never ask you to come to the church that I pastor. In order to schedule a conference or retreat with this person, you need to agree to all of the following items.

Why do I think that's interesting? There are 15 of them. 15 that you have to sign up for. And by the way, Bible conferences, they're not sinful, but they're not even the ordinary means of grace. We have 52 special days in the Christian calendar.

52 resurrection days. And that's what we need. That's what God has ordained we need. With the ministry of the word, means of grace, and the ministry of the sacraments. While having conferences, again, nothing wrong with that.

I like that. I like to go speak at them. And I like to have folks come here. But it's actually in the local church setting. It's for the people that are at the church here to try to encourage. And, you know, one of the great things about it is if I bring someone else from the outside in, they say things probably better than I do.

And sometimes the folks at Bethlehem Bible Church will say, Oh, I just learned that. That was so fascinating. I'm thinking, I've been teaching that for 20 years. So however the people learn it and increase their grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, great.

But we have all these requirements for things that are going on that aren't even on Sundays. So these are the requirements. You have to fulfill all of these for a certain person here. A very well-known evangelical.

So-and-so will make all the conference arrangements by email. This person will then review the email through their kind of subordinate. And they'll try to figure out the dates.

Okay.

That's the first one. Not a big deal. There's going to be a secretary involved. Okay, whatever. Because this person takes seriously the call to be in their own congregation with their spouse on Sunday, they will only be able to be with their group on Friday, Saturday.

Here's the airport they fly out of.

Okay.

Well, you know what? I don't mind that. I've even said before, I said to Justin down in Tennessee, I'd love to come and speak at Deeply Rooted, but I need to be back on Saturday night to preach on Sunday.

Okay, fine. No problem. So far, so good. You're like, Mike, what's going on? You're supposed to be not agreeing with this, and now you are. Number three, the host organization agrees to cover all transportation, room, and board for the speaker and for a traveling companion.

That traveling companion will oversee the book and resource sales. Now, when people say to me, we'd love to have your wife come, I say, that's a blessing. Thank you. Last conference we had, Phil Howard here, we said, oh, we want to fly Caroline in.

Not taking away from your honorarium, we just want to fly her in because we love her too.

Okay.

But to cover all the transportation expenses for both, that's part of the thing. It's either yes or no. Number four, once a date has been agreed upon, the host organization and the speaker will sign a contract and a deposit will be requested at that time.

Now, again, I'm a nobody, but I've never signed a contract, and I've never asked for a deposit. Never. Not once. I will say this. Andrew Rapoport one time had me come and speak. This was probably eight years ago, and he said, you know what?

Something's going on with the ministry, and we can't have you come and speak. We'd like to send you a check anyway because we are supposed to come and speak, and then we didn't have you, and so how much money do you think you would, you know, did you lose for not booking a weekend or something like that?

I said, Andrew, that is really, really classy. The answer is you don't owe me anything, but I'm very, very impressed because that was very classy of you. Well, speaking of classy, number five, in order to make the best use of the speaker's time and strength, the hosting organization should make every effort to let other churches know about the conference, personally asking them, radio, etc., and so advertise in the local area.

Okay, fine. Six, this person believes that around $2 ,500 per weekend event is reasonable considering that the person's work begins before the conference commences and will continue after it ends. And then it does say, if this fee is prohibited for your organization, please let us know.

Perhaps we can suggest ways for you to build that amount into a conference budget, or in some circumstances, we are open to negotiate a lower fee. Once agreed upon the amount, the entire honorarium must be received no less than seven days prior to the conference.

I don't give the check to the speaker until after they're done because what if they do a horrible job? What am I going to do? It's like, do you tip the person at the dinner, at the restaurant when the food's bad and the service is bad, or are you just going to give the 20 tip up front?

Number seven, the person, the speaker, and their companion need to stay in a hotel rather than a private home. Although they don't need separate rooms, they'll need separate beds because this person brings their daughter.

The speaker and the daughter need to be picked up upon arrival at the airport.

That distracts me, it's funny, of course.

Preferably by a husband and wife team and taken back to the airport at least one hour in advance for their outgoing flight. They might require a two-hour check-in time if it's international. Please build this into your conference times.

Number nine, when they're picked up, please provide water and some sort of snack or dinner.

Since they have been flying all day, out back.

That's a different person. This person will speak on only one topic in three or four sessions. This person has developed materials of all the books that they have written from which you may choose. Number 11, the person that coordinates all this will send notes of the material of the speaker to be copied to all attendants.

This is PowerPoint within one month of the conference, 50 minutes per session. PowerPoint, this person is not going to be bringing their laptop as a speaker. Provide your own. All right, here's the next one that gets really in my craw.

This one really gets in my craw. In order to conserve this person's strength, this person will not do any personal counseling while they're with you. Please assign a helper to this person for your group to assist this person in avoiding prolonged counseling conversations.

That doesn't really make sense. No counseling, but if they are in a prolonged. By the way, when I get asked to go somewhere, I think I'm there to serve the people. I might be tired. I might have a headache, but I'm there to serve the people.

That's why they asked me to come. And so when I go someplace, I ask the elders and the pastor, how are things? How are things going? How has the Lord been blessing you? What are some of your troubles?

Can I help you in any way? Good job in doing this, that or the other. I'm asking about them. I've had speakers here at Bethlehem Bible Church, and they never ask me about the ministry here. They just talk about themselves and all the things that they do.

And when you go and speak, yes, the main ministry is the public ministry. But behind the scenes, people want to come and talk. They know you. I mean, you might not know them, but they know you from all the podcasts and shows and all that other stuff.

And so you want to go there to serve. And yes, sometimes I meet people afterwards, and they want to dominate a conversation. I can't seem to get out of it, and they don't understand social situations where there's eight people in line, and they want to talk for a long time, and I have to just kind of move them along.

But that's the way it goes, ministering to Christ's sheep. Number 13, this person prefers an over-the-ear mic and needs room-temperature water in a glass at the podium.

Yes, it is.

It's a madhouse. I don't prefer over-the-ear mics, but I'll take what they give me. They ask me for water, but I pretty much have never drank. I never have drank. I never have drunken. I never drink water.

I never drink water from the pulpit. One time and one time only, Providence Baptist Church in New York City. It was right after I got out of the hospital for COVID for 16 days, 2021, and I really needed to do it, but that's it.

And I didn't say a glass. Who are these people? Can you imagine Paul? Imagine Paul or Peter doing this. I mean, Paul would say ahead of time, number one, I'd love to come and speak. Number two, where's the jail?

I'll soon be in it. Number 14, the person's understudy will sell the main speaker's books at the conferences and will arrange with you and outline what their expectations of the book table so they can make the maximum amount of money.

Number 15, if you're agreeable with all the points above, we'd love to be with you. Please take time to fill out the conference form now.

And how long have you been on that medication?

Well, quite some time. In bold letters, we know this seems like a lot, but the truth is that traveling and speaking is grueling. And now because this person is older, they've developed these guidelines to help continue this person to have strength to bring the good news to people everywhere for as long as they can.

Thank you again for stopping by. I hope we can work something out. Please copy and print this checklist so that you can keep it for future reference. What in the world have we come to? This is like a Saturday Night Live skit.

This is embarrassing. This is totally embarrassing. We've all done dumb things. I do dumb things. We do sinful things. We do carnal things. Jesus died for the sins of Christians, too. That's all true.

If you think I'm wrong, you can write me. But if you think I'm right, then the attitudes we've talked about here on the show today, the negative attitudes, and I can't prove their attitudes, but it seems like they are to me, then how do we live as Christians?

Knowing this is kind of out there in evangelicalism and it's in our hearts, it's in my heart, how do we end up then serving God's people? Well, I think the answer is if you realize the Lord who is rich became poor for your sake, if you realized the Son out of love the Father sends Him to rescue you, if you understand what grace is, if you understand how far you were in sin and now what it means to be in Christ, then shouldn't that motivate you?

Shouldn't that motivate me to think we ought to be humble people? We ought to be people of ministry. We ought to be people of love. There's nothing wrong with lavishing love, finances, and food on guest speakers.

Nothing wrong with that. But there's everything wrong with speakers expecting all these things. I'm surprised flying first class isn't on here. Some speakers do require first class, and if it's because they've got phlebitis or a back problem, fine.

They're like, well, I can't come and speak if it's going to kill me on the six-hour flight. Okay, I would get that. But if it's just I can't fly coach and I have to go to these kind of restaurants. In the old days, there was another person that I know, and they sent out a thing ahead of time when you're entertaining the speaker after the conference, where they like to go, what kind of things they like to buy, what kind of fountain pen stores they want to go to.

If I ask you to come and speak, it means I like you. It means I could benefit from you. It means you could help the congregation. And so I'll say afterward, where would you like to go? How can I serve you?

Do you need a nap? Do you want lunch? What kind of food do you want? These are your options. That's how we roll around here. That's how you would expect someone to be hospitable. But the demands, I have to go here.

I have to go there. I expect this. I expect that. I mean, when I get picked up from the airport and they say, can we take you to dinner? And I say, I love that. And they take me to Applebee's. I just bite my tongue and I bite the chicken extra hard because it's chewy.

We'd love to take you out to dinner.

Awesome.

Oh, where are we going? And you pull up into Olive Garden.

Hey, it is what it is.

If they say we have four options, which one would you like?

Fine.

If they take me to a really nice steakhouse, I don't get the most expensive food. What are we doing? Oh, anyway, my name is Mike Ebenroth. This is No Compromise Radio Ministry. I wish I was more humble.

I wish I was more self-sacrificial. I wish I did a lot of things differently. But I think we need to guard ourselves from coming across like we're somebodies. We're Christian celebrities. I am a sinner saved by grace.

Do I do the podcast?

Yes.

Am I glad to do it?

Yes.

But there's no upper class, middle class, lower class, caste system in Christianity. There's not even pastor, layperson. We're all one in Christ. By the way, that's why we have the communion table on the floor.

And that's why I get served last, because we're trying to tell you something, that we're all equal at the foot of the cross, right? And therefore the cross, the crucified one, that the world thinks is pretty stupid, and Jews, you know, they don't like it either.

You know, Gentiles think it's moronic. Jews think it's just, you know, stumbling block. We're going to put all these demands on speaking. If you're too old to speak, then you might not, you know, you shouldn't speak anymore.

Well, Mike Ebendroth, No Compromise Radio Ministry, Duplex Gratia Radio. I am so glad you listened to this show.