July 8, 2004

The Dividing Line Opens With Fire Updates and Show Logistics

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Welcome to the dividing line. It is a Thursday afternoon. I was gonna try to get a picture of it, but the wind is sort of kicked up. So it's sort of not as visible as it was but if you look out to the northwest.

From the valley I could really see it. Clearly yesterday I had to ride way out to the northwest actually sort of outside the valley out toward Cave Creek on my motorcycle. Middle the afternoon about fried to death.

But anyway. The willow fire out here in Arizona. I haven't looked today, but I think it's around a hundred and twenty thousand acres. We had four of four hundred and seventy thousand acre fire. Two years ago, but we've got one going now.

And it looks like a nuclear blast really does it really is. I was gonna try to get a picture of it. But like I said, it's sort of the wind sort of blew it down a little bit. And it's you can see it very clearly from the valley and if all of a sudden we disappear today.

It's because there is a actual real possibility of rolling blackouts here in Phoenix and Why would there be rolling blackouts because? Two things. There are transmission lines that go through the Payson area, which is where the fire is that are threatened by the fire right now and.

Then Sunday night we had a transformer huge transformer fire in North actually that's northwest is northeast. We were looking if you're confused about that you're supposed to look northeast not northwest, but anyway, the northwest part of the valley had a huge transformer fire and so.

That's causing a problem and the thing that's sort of scary.

Is.

Yeah, there's only five five of these substations like this in the whole state and one of them is down and The thing is are scary to me is they just now found a transformer that might Fit in its place in the northwestern United States someplace.

It's like, you know, I sort of thought maybe possibly that you know, they had like backups for things like that. You know something other than a battery. And when it's a hundred and currently 108 degrees outside High has been at least here has been 109 so far today a lot of folks have air conditioning running.

In fact, we all do and. So if all of a sudden we just go and we're gone and we pop out of the channel and everything else. That's that's what happened. Just went black and actually we probably stay on for a little while.

No, we wouldn't because the computers would stay on. But we well, I don't know. What did we lose the Internet? I don't know. It's possible. I don't know. Does it really matter? I don't know. Anyway, eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

I've had a bunch of folks saying they're gonna be calling in today and You know talking about this idea of things so now's your chance to call in today eight seven seven seven five three. Thirty three forty one.

I'm sitting here writing a blog entry. That's more of an article actually and It is in response. I'll just read a couple of these comments. To some things that I read in Mark Seyfried's book Christ our righteousness, which is.

A lot of people think that it's a response to the new perspective in a way it is. We really should call it new perspectives because there's more than one. But there's some troubling stuff right at the end of the book.

And let me just read you just one section of it. I'm gonna be sort of commenting on the blog. The common process and formulation of justification is the non Imputation of sin and the imputation of Christ righteousness is understandable as a way of setting forth justification as a forensic reality in distinction from the tridentine claim that an infused Imparted or inherent righteousness had to be added to the grace of forgiveness it nevertheless it and listen as it nevertheless treats the justifying verdict of God as an immediate and isolated gift.

The justification of the believer is thereby separated from the justification of God in his wrath against us. Salvation is then portioned out so that one possesses it piecemeal. It is held together as a series of ideas justification sanctification glorification.

Excuse me, but I thought that was Romans 8 personally rather than being grasped by faith as the comprehensive act of God in Christ. The insistence that the sanctification of the believer always accompanies justification does not fully overcome this deficiency indeed.

Protestant confessions sometimes take on the appearance of unreality at this point because they speak of believers in themselves and What is this picture of reality unreality? The the citation that is given the Heidelberg Catechism answer to question 60 quote.

God imputes to me the perfect Satisfaction righteousness and holiness of Christ as if I had never committed nor had any sin and had myself Accomplished all the obedience which Christ has fulfilled for me.

So I guess that's the the unreality part. I guess I don't know be that as it may I Found I find that kind of commentary quite troubling. I Find it quite troubling because it it seems to be based upon and almost postmodern rejection of the ability to do systematic theology or the relevance of systematic theology or or things like that and That's what I'm commenting on currently in preparation for posting to the blog.

And then I also Right as we were getting ready for the program received a Email it is the Berean call newsletter, which we always love to review here on the program and I'm sorry Here is a letter from HH in Australia and That says dear brothers hunt McMahon and staff.

What love is this talk about going from? From one extreme to another. I just realized that smell you smell is the clutch burning on the program. Because I gotta admit the the going from Seyfried's Christ our righteousness Paul theology of justification the new studies in biblical theology series to Dave hunts what love is this is.

I Don't know if any of the rest you realize how funny that is, but anyway HH in Australia What love is this is highly appreciated in a valuable tool for those who are confused.

Made.

Made the Lord bless you abundantly knowing the price you all had to pay to print the truth. We know people whose faith has been shipwrecked by Calvinism's misrepresentation of God as we preach and hand out tracks.

It is a wonderful thing to be able to say with clear consciences Whosoever will may come HH in Australia, and I I Hadn't really thought as I first started reading it that this is what love is. This is highly appreciated valuable tool for those who are That sounds a lot like these surprised by truth series, you know.

Exactly, who are you talking about surprised by truth is now or then you know I'm sorry I'm being told by an elder in a reformed Baptist Church in California to stop laughing. It's a distraction. I'm sorry it just struck me as funny, but then we we Scroll down here a little bit to another letter.

This is from our H in, Tennessee. Our H in Tennessee and our H says dear. Mr. Hunt. I had looked forward to reading debating Calvinism. I knew of Calvinism's claim that non-Calvinist do not understand real Calvinism.

I had hoped mr. White would enlighten me, but I was disappointed his shallow Love this when you're when you're in the middle of reading something and you get an email. It just throws you right back to whatever just came in so his shallow The deed the his shallow arguments only strengthen my opinion that real Calvinism is indeed a damnable heresy White's handling of what is probably the most straightforward simple and probably the best-known passage in the entire Bible John 3 16 is Twisted to mean something different than what it says.

But I thank God that whosoever means whatever person no matter who and that includes me. That's our H in Tennessee. Well, we can see that our H took the time to very closely read the discussion and To discover that there is no freestanding word that is translated whosoever in shot 316, but hey, you know There you go I've been sort of watching the Marine call a little bit, you know, I subscribe to it and the electronic version and Now just and there hasn't been a lot of discussion.

This is one of the first time just that that's Even been addressed and there just hasn't been a lot of discussion If you want to see some really weird stuff go online and look at some of the reviews and written online.

There is some Truly odd strange things out there Big big big time Let's just make me go Ready some really strange folks read books. That's just it's a good thing. I guess eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one.

I'm not sure why I'm chuckling That's just some of us it's a very useful tool for those of us who are confused Okay Eight seven seven seven five three three four one is the phone number that Matthew called and hello Matthew.

How are you?

Today, I'm doing all right. How are you? Yeah, I'm pretty good over here, too.

Okay, what's what couldn't we do for you today? Well, I've got a laundry list of things.

I'm sort of waiting through but I'll stick with the topic. I I talked to with your call screener, which is a Darwin's theory of evolution. Mm-hmm. I'm a reformed Baptist myself, but I'm not exactly. Sure, what the church is teaching is with respect.

I'm I'm I know in general, you know, it. The reformed Baptist Church would adopt, you know, a literal seven-day creation, you know, the hero the Hebrew word yom is consistently used to mean Scripture as far as I know and and I know that's one reason why we would look at the creation account is that type of.

Event. Oh, well, no, there's two different two different issues there though there's there's the issue of The days of creation and yom and everything in Hebrew, but I think there's a significantly more Important issue when we talk about the doctrine and really it is within secularism the doctrine of Evolution and the doctrine of creation and it's not so much just creationism.

I mean, I've written a little youth book on that. Unfortunately, it's no longer available, but it was once. And I've commented on on that a number of times but on a theological level I think the the real issue that that most reformed Baptist would raise aside from the recognition that God is the creator of all things and that the only meaningful epistemology as you could develop would have to have God at the starting point and so on so forth is that you cannot build the the.

Biblical.

Anthropology a biblical anthropology a biblical doctrine of man Without man being the creation of God. He bears the Imago Dei not as something that was added in at another time but it is a constituent element of his nature and Everything that flows from that in regards to God's purpose God's purpose and redemption in Christ.

God's purpose in in Redeeming fallen mankind all goes back to that and and I think that would be considerably more central to the London Confession to face understanding of what God is doing who man is and all the rest that stuff then some of the Sometimes some of the arguments that we end up getting into in regards to those issues and so I I know for example when I went to a Christian college I Went to I went to through high school in the public educational system, and I fought the battle there I was.

I remember as a sophomore writing a 52 page paper in advanced biology class on the subject of creation evolution and so I I would sit during lunch periods with my biology teachers and I Learned the evolutionary theory very very very well.

And and I learned it from the inside on that level and I thought when I went to a Christian school that the battle would be over even as a As a biology major, but I was wrong. I was the only creationist at the Christian school.

Everybody else was at best a theistic evolutionist. And so I had to continue The battle there and really at that point because I was also working on my Bible degree and a biology degree both finished both majors.

I.

Had to think a lot about it and to me. Outside of the creation issues in regards to the fact that that that is absolutely central to all of all of Christian Theology is that God is our creator and we are created and and the epistemology and everything else.

You also have the issue of the of the fact of death and the fact of redemption. From that and the nature of the curse there really isn't any any room there. In when I would speak with theistic evolutionists I would really find that the what was driving them and the development of their worldview was not biblical revelation.

But whatever the current cosmology was and obviously the cosmology that is popular today is Different than it was when I was in college. Only 15 years ago, and it'll be different five years from now. And so trying to come up with all that stuff.

You you can never end up with a consistent basis at that point. Because there really isn't in a in an atheistic worldview any basis for those things. So there are a lot of different directions that I as a Reformed Baptist would look at at our confession and say well actually it's relevant To this this this and this and it's not just an argument over The the meaning of Yom.

I mean, I don't have any problem whatsoever.

In.

Seeing the scientific evidence that is interpreted as indicative of an ancient creation and Say well look, you know for God to Accomplish the purposes that he had for all of creation creation would have had to have come into existence functional and if I look at the evidence from a theistic standpoint and from a specifically a Theistic standpoint where God has a purpose for everything to exist. I'm not going to interpret the evidence in such a way as To have any problem with it.

I don't have to bend the speed of light and do all sorts of that kind of stuff like that. I mean if the stars are going to exist for a purpose and they have to be existed to be visible on earth for the purpose that they are created to exist for in the first place, so That that's all a whole nother area.

But I really think sometimes we miss the central aspect of the argument and that is that we need to focus upon What is death? What is what? Where did it come from? All this theistic evolutionary stuff seems to have a problem in those specific areas.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly and I've actually.

Some amount of research in this a few years back and I was a little bit more well-versed on it then Than I am now. It's just recently a lot of my studies in graduate school. I'm basically Bombarded with Darwin's theory even though I'm a computer scientist.

There's research going on where you attempt to use, you know, quote-unquote Observed evolutionary patterns to solve problems, you know with the different machines all this terminology. You just hear it so much and so much and so it's as though everyone around you just accepts it.

You know just on blind faith and I feel like I'm the only person there that doesn't.

Well, believe me that like I said, it is it is the only way to accurately describe it it in in academia today in Secular academia and sadly in a lot of what calls itself Christian academia it is religious orthodoxy.

To believe otherwise is to in essence commit the the sin of epistemological heresy and You to even it that is so true that just look at what happens to someone when they seek to try To challenge the the foundations of and I don't know anybody today that who holds to Darwinian evolutionary theory.

It's it's a neo-darwinian perspective that has been, you know altered tremendously from the days of Darwin. But just dare to try to raise the issue and you know what's going to happen and that that is that is I think the clearest proof of the fact this has become a and in essence a religious dogma within the within the secular world and It it it is odd though Given the fact that so many are confessing today that you know what there there are lots of issues.

There are lots of problems in regards to irreducible complexity into the complexity of biochemical systems that were completely unknown to Darwin in his day. That it's funny to hear people screaming that they need to have freedom To be able to examine anything outside of a theistic system.

But you cannot have freedom to examine the possibility the theistic system actually gives best answers to the facts as we know them.

Right. Yeah, and you use the term theistic evolutionist, I guess that's.

More.

Investigating right now because I've always just seen evolution as just being completely incompatible With you know the creation account and and I know there's a lot of organizations out there that that finds ways to basically Put it back into the creation story, you know by using To mean an age.

So, you know this one period of I've had another period of evolution occurred. If I'm not mistaken I think it might be Hugh Ross who done a lot of work on that and I'm just really It seems to me that if I accepted Evolution I would basically have to renounce you know my belief in and the Bible as a whole because if I accepted evolution and and Looked at the creation account and said well, you know that that's not really true.

Then you know you would have a hole in your in your belief system. And and who's to say there wouldn't be holes in other places as well.

I know that when I was there the argument that was used in response that is no you you know, we're not throwing out The Gospels just something like that that's in essence. So they would argue that well No, you were just simply recognizing different kinds of literature and you know, there's a whole lot that That goes into this into this discussion that I'm really not prepared to go into today.

But there there are Numerous works available and I know that Hugh Ross's stuff. I know it's very popular among some people but the fact the matter is you know pre-adamic races and the Sufficiency of general revelation to actually communicate the gospel without special revelation and and things like that that have been a part of the debate with Hugh Ross in the past Caused me a lot of problems.

There was an interesting Program my Hank Hanegraaff had him on a number of years well In a year and a half two years ago. I've forgotten now I bet you they still make it available and Hank asked him a lot of tough questions the direct questions I'm not sure that that he answered them really overly well, so you might want to track down that resource.

I thought it was a very interesting interview personally. Yeah, I know too. I think Greg Kochel was staying to reason. Had him on there a few times and even John Ankerberg. He's had you know, he's been all over the place.

Yeah.

He probably feels like a dartboard.

Here and there there's a just just. I guess it's one last thing of you. Are you familiar with the guy by the name of Kent Hovind?

Yeah, I I know some of the names. I'm not sure what's going on my microphone there. I I know I am familiar with him. I couldn't tell you that I've read much right anyhow he has.

He did a big here basically. I think refuting evolutions basically his life's work and he has Something like a 9 DVD set out really cheap, and he lets people copy it for free. You know if they want to and just for those listeners out there.

He he has a lot of really good and counter examples to most things you would be in your You know things that would really just make the Smithsonian feel really uneasy. You know the public knew because it was kind of a lot of their well.

There's yeah, there's a lot of information out there like that. It's sort of like what I had in the blog recently about the 3d dimensional imaging. They're doing of children in the womb now. If it had been said a long time ago if the womb was transparent there would be no abortion, but You know the folks who have a vested interest try to keep the information away from other folks and on this issue.

There's a Great deal of of that kind of stuff, so hey we need to keep running on here. Thank you Matthew for your phone call. I appreciate it. God bless you in your studies. 877 -753 -3341. Let's let's go up to Minnesota.

That's up where the people are in Minnesota where there's 10 ,000 lakes and a hundred a billion mosquitoes, and let's talk to bill hi bill. Am I right about dinner. You're a southerner in Minnesota. Yes, sir.

Is the do you sort of feel like you're like on another planet?

Sometimes yes.

Well actually I was born in Minnesota. So I'm a native Minnesotan, and that's why I can make fun of them because I was born there, but anyway I I escaped after about five years, and and I'm still thawing out here in Arizona.

It takes quite some.

Should I go to the.

How does anyone Put that in their mouth. Oh, I know I'm sorry. That's just nice. I was hungry, but I'm not anymore anyways. Bill you have a completely different question than about the the Lutherans in Minnesota, right?

Yeah.

Well appreciate your ministry and your books have been super. Also, let me mention that I can't. I would have probably gotten the answer off the archives of your Show, but I haven't been able to access that for two or three months now.

Oh well. Let me just mention in passing.

I'm I honestly don't know exactly what situation is right now myself the last I knew Pete was who also makes this whole thing available for us was going to be Posting some archives there, and and I'm not I haven't actually talked with the powers-that-be is what we're doing there.

But we've just completely lost all contact with straightgate .com so up until April of this year That's all there, but fast past that we just there's nothing we can we can do and I I guess we're just have to make.

Sure, they're all available in the mp3 Section of the website. Yeah, I would like you to comment just real real quickly there rich. What what is it?

What is the situation. Well what we're going to be doing is essentially the most recent program will be archived on Pete's website for Public listening through real audio for free right and anything that goes beyond that will have to be acquired through either straightgate April 15th or earlier as long as straightgate lasts and or through the mp3 archives that will be Storing up there so and a lot of folks need to understand that you know Stephen for what ever has Occurred here in the situation Stephen was putting out a pretty good chunk of change every year, and he had supporters or his church Taking care of those needs as etc so we're not really able to absorb those costs right so we're going to have to make other Arrangements, but we want to make sure that Those archives are available at least in the mp3 form and then the other side of that coin is I've got to really get it In gear and get all the the archives all the way back to the beginning of the series of this program Archived enough there the first.

I think two years. I have yet to get into mp3 so that is. What's the plan for the future.

What about the past couple since April. Are those available on our site on mp3 and mp3. Okay? That's what I wanted to know. Thank you. We've had a lot of people ask so thanks bill for mentioning that because a lot of people keep asking.

Hey, you know what's going on there? And they a lot of folks were not aware of what the relationship between ourselves and straightgate was and I hope we hear from Stephen. Again, I hope he's alright.

I my understanding is he was getting a job and some other stuff going on and that's worrying. Hopefully, that's where he very is. I don't know so anyway go ahead sir.

Again you probably I know you've addressed it sometimes, but the friend gave me something from John Armstrong. Mm-hmm, and it sounds to me postmodern and also his view of scripture could almost be classified as a.

Neolithic.

One has an encounter with scripture at the time that appears possibly. If so, could you just comment on that briefly. Yeah?

Yeah, there's there's been quite a shift over the past six or seven years in John Armstrong's position there is a Couple of articles that he has written in his viewpoint newsletter talking about his change in theology is change in how he does theology and how he views things and Yeah, he has he has adopted.

He's been deeply influenced by NT right and by NT rights understanding of how to read Paul and that has then led to His criticism of what he calls and what is called by others is foundational ism, and yeah it does bear a postmodern tint To the view of scripture, but actually those of us who if you go to seminary almost anywhere You will have been exposed to this view of scripture for quite some time For a long long time and There's really nothing new about it.

But it it is probably new especially to the people who once looked to John Armstrong for for guidance and for Reformation and Revival ministries and We have talked about it in fact. I'm pretty certain that we talked about it last year and so those archives should be there at straightgate .com still if they're available and So there has been a Let me see if I can explain it someone who has has been in a conservative Evangelical movement especially in apologetics type movements.

I mean John Armstrong Responded to Roman Catholicism. He edited a book on that subject so he was involved apologetics individuals like that. Sometimes if something happens, and I honestly don't know what situation was but something happens that is Is is troubling that that causes one discouragement in the ministry?

In that type of situation sometimes what happens is if you become disillusioned With the the context in which you have been ministering for a long period of time all of a sudden you may start Discovering these other Perspectives and these people who hold these other perspectives who are much more shall we say open-minded so much more willing to view things in in a new fashion and It is very easy, and I've seen it a number of times sadly.

Much more recently than over the years before that but it almost becomes a a quest To see just how broad-minded you can become and I'm going to avoid any of the jokes about being broad-minded and so broad-minded everything just sort of you know falls out, but The idea be really becomes you know I was once there.

And it almost becomes the the Paul conversion type thing is I know what it's like to be so narrow-minded in fact in some of the articles John Armstrong has talked about Asking forgiveness for things that he did back when he held those particular views and I really think that if it was an NT right that came first these other things that led to NT, right?

I don't know which the chicken the egg is but Once you start reading in that area, and then you you want to expand more and more. It's very easy to move into other areas, and yes the the view of Scripture Becomes deeply impacted and hence your view of what the gospel is becomes deeply impact.

And I've said for a long long time that once your view of Scripture is Is compromised once you no longer believe that God has spoken with? Perspicuity with clarity. With a force to where a man can be held accountable before God for what he knows and for what the Word of God says.

Once you'd no longer believe that Scripture is they are new stocks. It is God breathed. The Katie bar the door there's you can go any direction from that point. It doesn't mean you're going to go any one particular direction.

But you're going to you're going you can't stay where you were. You're not going to be comfortable where you've been all that period of time you're going to go somewhere. And that's in essence what has taken place there as I understand it in the last Seminar that he had he had a Roman Catholic speaker and Eastern Orthodox speaker.

Some of the Auburn Avenue folks were involved some of the new Perspectivist folks and it's sort of can we all just sort of get together. Well the problem is when you when you engage in that kind of ecumenical perspective ecumenical activity the only agreement you can end up coming up with has to in some essence be the lowest common denominator and The the issues of the gospel that we that you end up having to say well we're just have to disagree about that our Definitional of how you're going to proclaim it and what it means and so that that's why when we see these these ecumenical gatherings in our nation.

You end up with father-mother gods and no mention of Christ and no mention of atonement and redemption because you just can't get to that you can't get to that level of.

Of.

Specificity if you don't have a robust high doctrine of scripture to begin with and and. And the ecumenical movement simply can't bear that that level of authority for the Word of God. And so it always goes another direction.

So we have discussed it and what I've done the past is I've actually read those articles. The viewpoint articles and responded to him on the air. So but I would imagine they'd probably be back in October November of last year.

Okay, and so they they should be there for you. And so I don't have the articles right here next to me or I'd read some quotes from it. But yeah, we have we have noted it and and responded to it briefly.

Certainly not to all of it. But to it briefly we have. Okay. Thanks very much. Thank you very much sir. And watch those mosquitoes. Okay. Thanks a lot. God bless. But I they have West Nile up there in Minnesota.

We've got it here in Phoenix now. Did you. I heard they mentioned I think like the third person to die of West Nile virus so. That's that's not good. So and given up there you have to live with off, you know.

Get you to gather get a shower and spray with off. That's what happens during the summer summers up there. I'm not gonna go into anything more about what I know about Minnesota because I'd have to tell you about the bats.

We had that lived in our farmhouse. They'd come out and you dealt with mosquitoes and stuff. You don't want to hear that because we've got Brett in North Carolina and Jason in the United Kingdom. Jason's in the United Kingdom.

Oh good. Sorry, but let's talk to Brett, North Carolina. Hi Brett. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing good. Good to hear. Hey, I hear you y 'all's senators trying to become the vast president. Yeah, that's what it looks like.

Oh, you know, he's got pretty hair I'm sorry. I should not make political comments. And I just hope you were never sued by him when he was a lawyer because I heard he was quite quite good at that. But anyhow, I don't Brett doing good.

How are you doing? I'm doing all right. Oh, you've got it. You've got one of those big bomb questions. Yeah, I just I just looked at it. So. Oh, I suppose. I don't know that I'll answer anything, but if we can take a look at what's up.

All right, well.

Looking at Matthew 19 9 the exception calls for divorce and remarriage and all the debate that goes on around that. Just curious as to what how you understood the exception calls in Matthew 19 9 and 532.

And was wondering if you held the Erasmian view or or if you took the view of like Gordon Wigham or William have that look at it in a different way.

I can honestly say that I haven't a clue what any of them said other than harass the Erasmian view. I don't Get into reading on this particular subject. So these specific views of specific scholars. I haven't a clue I can only tell you that as an elder in the church where you're always having to deal with this It it strikes us as a as elders in in our fellowship That the Range of poor Naya that would be found in Matthew 19 9 should not be viewed Solely in a Greek context.

But recognizing Jesus's continuous reference to and usage of the Old Testament and the Old Testament law We we need to recognize that there were all sorts of things that provided for what we might call a Virtual divorce.

For example, if your spouse were to be found to engage in homosexuality that individual would be cut off and as such. When when anyone would commit a sin that would involve for example capital punishment this would provide in essence a a virtual divorce and so it is it I I'm afraid of those folks who Simplify things down to the point where issues such as that Get lost in the shuffle.

There are those who say look there's just never ever ever ever a possibility of People who even deny that this is inspired scripture on textual grounds. They don't really have a basis for doing so. So, I don't know what all those folks that you just quoted.

I haven't I haven't a clue what they what they said and maybe you could define them for us. But I would not take a a super super a narrow view of poor Naya I think there are violations the marriage covenant that The Old Testament law contained that I don't think Jesus is getting rid of them In limiting it just to a an act of sexual immorality.

The one of the things I was there was Hard for me to understand is when I'm looking at the parallel of the like mark and Luke and especially in first Corinthians 711. Where Paul speaks on it and he and he basically is addressing where Jesus taught on it.