Francis' Fiducia Supplicans Examined in Context & Follow Up on Last Week's "Neo-Socinian" Accusation

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December 19, 2023

Went a bit long today, but, lots to talk about, and my voice wasn't real good, so I had to slow down a bit! In any case, first hour was on the Dicastery document released yesterday that caused such a stir, then we switched over to a summary of developments over the weekend with the "Neo-Socinian" allegations. Jumbo sized program today!

00:34: Well greetings welcome to the dividing line it is it is Advent week we're coming up on the celebration of Christmas and Lot to get to but I would be inappropriate if I did not start off a program on the 19th of December with wishing a happy birthday to my two eldest granddaughters cadence and Clementine who share a birthday which is
01:02: Pretty amazing It is so much fun to see how close those two have become over the past number of years and Despite the fact that cadence is you know, like two feet taller than Clementine now
01:19: And is frighteningly less than two years away from driving that's yeah, yeah rich just We responded to that but yeah less than less than two years away from from driving that's
01:38: Sobering very very very sobering. So a blessed thing blessed blessed
01:43: Thanksgiving to them both you go a happy birthday to to both cadence and Clementine looking forward to seeing them again on Christmas Day coming up So much to get to today and we would be
02:03: Very very much remiss if we did not focus our time on the continuing crisis within Roman Catholicism and the opportunities that that gives to us to Speak to key and important issues that we've been addressing since the late 1980s to be perfectly honest with you
02:25: And that's really when I first began my studies into this area and interactions with with Roman Catholics and The issues really haven't changed much
02:37: I mean obviously Rome has changed a lot since then You know when
02:45: John Paul the second was Pope He was Pope for a long period of time there was a period of stability and That has now passed and the past decade of Francis after the
03:03: Sudden and totally unexpected resignation of Benedict Cardinal Ratzinger Has Really shown a light on so much that clearly even many of my
03:23: Reformed Baptist brethren have not understood and really appreciated why solo scriptura is so important and how it must be understood and How you can detect defections from solo scriptura
03:43: Those these are all vitally important things, but yesterday the internet blew up And Everybody saw it
03:57: I would imagine Starting yesterday morning. I saw a link to an article
04:07: That I then began reading and realized this is something that's going to have to be discussed on the dividing line
04:15: I Wrote a short little thing two short little things on Twitter as The headlines began exploding and Reactions are coming from lots of different areas
04:33: On both sides of the divide within Roman Catholicism, which is a very wide divide
04:42: You know every time I hear Roman Catholics talking about how unified they are versus how
04:47: Unified Protestants are I I just have to remember once again That The range of expression of beliefs
04:59: Amongst those who claim some kind of fidelity To the concept of the papacy versus the range of beliefs expressed by those
05:13: Who claim and seek to practice solo scriptura is not even comparable the?
05:22: denominations churches that teach solo scriptura and seek to practice it have a
05:30: Have so much more actual unity in doctrine Than those who claim some type of fealty to the
05:43: Bishop of Rome the range of expression there is much much wider
05:52: And What's going on right now? really really illustrates
05:58: That while there have been those who have said solo scriptura is the blueprint for anarchy the reality is
06:06: Profession of Fealty to the concept of the papacy combined with Combined with Cardinal Newman's Development hypothesis is
06:23: The blueprint for anarchy that's the real blueprint for anarchy and you're seeing it right now It's being lived out right in front of us
06:32: So I think this is really really important. I know that not everyone in our audience has dealt with the issue of Roman Catholicism and dealt with issues of biblical sufficiency
06:49: Sacramentalism, I want to be a part of the quote -unquote ancient church all the rest of this type of stuff. I I Fear that so many within my own quote -unquote tribe have accepted rather Surface -level
07:10: Understandings of The Battle that was going on during the
07:15: Reformation and after the Reformation especially in response to the Counter Reformation and Has been continuing since then
07:25: Every time I see someone convert to Rome from my tribe and then I listen to them talking.
07:31: I Realize I are there being wildly dishonest now or when they were a part of my tribe
07:39: They had no idea Why they were on the key and central issues of biblical sufficiency and things like that So it's it's time for all of us
07:51: I think to really buckle down and come to an understanding of these issues because We've never been
08:01: In my lifetime, we have never been in a better position to be able to demonstrate
08:08: The utter necessity of solo scriptura The actions of the
08:16: Bishop of Rome and those around him This is an interesting aspect of it in light of Dogmas propounded by the
08:27: First Vatican Council and things like that Illustrates the emptiness of The claims on the part of Rome to be able to provide some kind of epistemological certainty
08:44: Concerning even her own teachings People are realizing today
08:50: I Can't know Whether I am actually interpreting the teachings of the church correctly if Cardinals Can write to the
09:04: Pope? Officially Asking for clarifications on points of doctrine of the
09:13: Roman Catholic Church and in less than three years Get completely contradictory answers, which is what is going on which is what has just happened in Less than three years
09:28: Cardinals, what hope? Does Joe Q regular
09:33: Roman Catholic have of having any kind of knowledge
09:39: Yes, what I believe is what is officially taught by the Roman Catholic Church believed by the
09:44: Holy Father It you know,
09:51: I I think back over the past number of decades the number of debates we've done on solo scriptura and I think of the things that were confidently said there was a there was a debate
10:01: I attended that I was not actually involved with amazingly enough haven't been to many of those The three -on -three debate on solo scriptura in Southern, California back in the 90s and How different that debate
10:19: Would be today then it was only, you know, 25 years ago
10:26: And that should tell you something That should tell you something. I mean there is a consistency in the way that reformed apologists defend the gospel the doctrine of the church
10:47: Especially solo scriptura from the Reformation onward There's consistency
10:55: Rome Has had been consistent up until Vatican II and Within academia earlier than that, but that's all changed.
11:11: That's all changed The Roman Catholic side could not debate
11:17: Today the way they did in the 1990s They couldn't make the same presentation because they'd be opening themselves up to direct refutation by their own allegedly infallible
11:27: Pope What are we talking about? You might be sitting there going
11:33: What in the world happened that I missed? Well, if you were asleep yesterday you
11:42: Did what I did. I did my birthday ride yesterday. That was almost four hours on the bike and Maybe that's what you did.
11:49: And then you fell asleep immediately thereafter. I certainly slept well last night Watch that, you know what come to think of it.
11:55: I'm not sure I slept well at all. I forgot to actually So my my program says
12:08: It's you know, 55 % so, you know, it's it's not bad but you know could have been better anyway
12:15: There is a document that you can go online and read for yourself today if you want to Look for it if you put in fiducia supplicants, isn't it wonderful to have to spell
12:31: Latin stuff, but fiducia supplicants a declaration From the
12:38: Dicastery now, what is the Dicastery Dicastery? They've changed the name a
12:45: Number of times over the decades, but it is the modern
12:53: Continuation of what used to be called the Inquisition and Cardinal Ratzinger was once the head of the
13:03: Inquisition The congregation for the faith I think is what it was called back then something like that anyway
13:12: Francis Francis Has been working diligently
13:19: To rid the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church of its conservatives. I don't think anybody to actually disagree with that He had gotten rid of the relatively conservative and when we say conservative for someone like me
13:37: Um Almost anybody in the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church is considerably to the left of me on Fundamental issues regarding inerrancy inspiration
13:50: Stuff like that. I mean Rome has been thoroughly Thoroughly infected with progressivist theology at its at its core and So To say conservative
14:09: In regards to a cardinal or archbishop or something like that We're talking about within the context of Roman Catholicism and He removed the head of the
14:24: Dicastery and put one of his old buddies from South America from Buenos Aires In control only a matter of weeks ago
14:37: Now what's really interesting that I didn't know is This fella
14:47: His name is Victor Manuel Fernandez And he started rising up the ranks as soon as Francis became
14:56: Pope and And now he's in one of the most influential positions within the
15:03: Roman Catholic hierarchy even though It has been documented that that same
15:14: Organization the former Inquisition had kept files on him
15:21: Because his theology was questionable So they had they had actually investigated him and now he's in charge
15:31: All of this honestly makes me look back on What's going on politically in the
15:38: United States and go it's happening everywhere You know, there's the same kind of corruption all over and so here this guy he is reported
15:51: To be the author of some of Francis's papal documents
16:01: And so he's Very central and he himself has said he is far to the
16:07: Pope's left on many issues So he is a true progressivist on almost everything
16:18: The document that came out came out under Francis's signature, but it was written by Fernandez You have to do this a number of times if you're listening on audio
16:33: As you can tell I've got a Respiratory thing going on it's not too bad hasn't stopped me from writing but it will make
16:45: Continuous speech for lengthy period of time Somewhat problematic anyway
16:52: This Fernandez everybody knows he is Way off to the left and he is the one who wrote not only the document but also the introduction to the document
17:03: That was released yesterday Morning. Well morning here. It was probably in the afternoon over in Italy What you need to understand is that the vast majority of the news coverage of this particular document
17:23: Once again is Not looking at the the big picture Francis is seeking to move
17:33: Rome and Form Rome in his own image He has an ultimate goal and Part of his changing how his successor is going to be chosen is to continue that Process even after he's resigned or is dead.
17:58: He's not in good health right now. So People have been speculating why push this out why the week before Christmas for crying out loud just a matter of days why now and I I think the reason is he's not well and That has had to accelerate a process
18:24: The process is seen in the Synod on the synodality Which most people were not paying any attention to But we reported on it and We talked about the fact
18:39: No, it helped a lot. If I just lift this up a little bit and then back off on the volume
18:46: Rich can rich can stop shaking rich can yeah. No, I'm not getting it that close to me
18:53: Rich can can pick up the the amplification on the other end the
19:01: When you hear multiple people who were in attendance at this
19:07: Synod Who are Conservative consistent lifelong
19:14: Roman Catholics Saying All they want to do is force us to accept homosexuality
19:23: When they're coming out of the Synod and that's what they're saying They're saying, you know, we're being guilted into accepting the goodness of this worldview this the
19:36: LGBTQ plus revolution And when people are being chosen to speak
19:46: And Present at this Synod Who are plainly far outside the historical realm of The moral ethical and doctrinal teachings
20:00: Roman Catholic Church. This is all Francis is doing He has had ten years to Get the old guard to retire and to replace them
20:14: With his own acolytes with those of the people who think like he thinks you must understand what's going on in Germany as well the
20:24: German Roman Catholic Church is Again highly progressivist and has a lot of money and hence has a lot of influence
20:36: And is not far from Italy And There is a really good chance that one of the reasons that this statement was pushed out when it is was to try to head off a
20:52: A Directly schismatic action on the part of the
20:57: German bishops who are already in essence Blessing same -sex unions there.
21:04: I mean, they're just openly saying this is what we need to do So he's
21:15: He wants he clearly wants to go that direction but what he is basically saying to the progressivists is
21:26: It has to be done in the right order in the right time slowly and so Unlike John Paul II who you know one year he'd
21:41: Throw a bone to the conservatives and next year. He'd throw a bone to the liberals and that's just sort of how he operated
21:51: Francis is has one direction. There's no throwing anything to the conservatives at all
21:59: Outside of just kicking them out of their their offices and Retiring them.
22:05: That's what he's that's what he's about so what is utterly fascinating to me is
22:14: That when we look at this document available online at Vatican just if you go to The to the to press dot
22:24: Vatican dot VA and and put in Fiducia supplicants, it'll pop up It's called on the pastoral meaning of blessings and there is a presentation.
22:39: There's an introduction provided by Fernandez and It is quite fascinating It says this declaration considers several questions that have come to this dicastery in recent years in Preparing the document the dicastery as is its practice consulted experts undertook a careful drafting process and discussed the text in the
23:02: Congress of the doctrinal section of the dicastery During that time the document was discussed with the
23:07: Holy Father. Finally the text the declaration was submitted to the Holy Father for his review And he approved it with his signature so this has
23:18: Papal approval while the subject matter of this document was being studied the
23:24: Holy Father's response to the Dubia Dubia submitted questions from Bishops archbishops
23:32: Cardinals, whatever Of some Cardinals was made known That response provide important clarifications for this reflection and represents a decisive element for the work of the dicastery
23:45: Since quote the Roman Curia is primarily an instrument at the service of the successor of Peter Our work must foster along with an understanding the church's perennial doctrine the reception of the
23:58: Holy Father's teaching so here is a statement that the dicastery the modern embodiment of the
24:05: Inquisition is primarily at the behest of the papacy as With the
24:13: Holy Father's above -mentioned response the Dubia of two Cardinals this declaration remains firm on the traditional doctrine of the church about marriage
24:21: Not allowing any type of liturgical right or blessings similar to a liturgical right that can create confusion
24:29: Now this is important because well The value of this document however is that it offers a specific and innovative contribution to the pastoral meaning of blessings permitting a broadening and enrichment of the classical understanding of blessings notice broadening and enrichment
24:55: Of the classical understanding of blessings, which is closely linked to a liturgical perspective Now here's here's chief key phrase
25:05: Such theological reflection buzzword within Roman Catholicism Normally the context of theological reflection upon the living tradition of the church, which means we're coming up with something new based on the pastoral vision of Pope Francis implies a real
25:32: Development here those two words Real Development from what has been said about blessings in the
25:45: Magisterium and the official text of the church this explains why this text has taken on the typology of a declaration now what?
25:54: What does that refer to? Well, we'll look at in a moment, but it's referring to a document from the
26:02: Dicastery That is less than three years old March of 2021
26:08: Less than three years and when you hear the term development
26:17: Your ears should pop up if you are familiar at all with what's called the development hypothesis of John Henry Cardinal Newman modern
26:33: Roman Catholic Theologians and Even modern
26:39: Roman Catholic apologists apologists tend to be considerably more conservative than the theologians and the prelates in the church
26:49: But no one can begin to defend the most unique dogmas of Rome the ones most recently defined which would be papal infallibility immaculate conception bodily assumption along with Many other beliefs that are at least in church history still relatively new
27:13: Dogmas define my room No one can do that without invoking
27:19: Newman Newman's hypothesis was that Newman's hypothesis was an abandonment of the historical field of battle
27:33: Because what he said was we shouldn't be looking for evidence of these beliefs these more modern defined beliefs in the ancient church because the truth is the
27:48: Tradition the living tradition delivered by the Apostles to those first bishops is like the acorn to the tree and if you were
28:02: If you're looking for a full -grown tree when the only thing that's around right now is the acorn you're not going to find it it has to have time to grow and So there's no reason to look back in ancient church history to find
28:21: These dogmas because like the acorn they were underground and they were growing and they were rooting themselves
28:27: And then then they come up through the through the through the ground you start to see them But they're they're small.
28:32: They're not fully developed it in it. It's this development of doctrine over time now one of the reasons that Newman's Thesis has worked for Rome is that there's an element of truth to it.
28:48: I mean No thesis that has no element of truth to it at all is ever gonna Get off the ground.
28:55: No one's even gonna give it a second thought Well Okay, not until modern times
29:01: I think of transgender theory and that sort of refused my argument, but anyway There's an element of truth to what
29:10: Newman says because for example, all of us would have to admit that there is a
29:19: Development there is a clarification of terminology In the doctrine of God in the early centuries of the church because the gospel message is leaving the primarily
29:36: Israel context of which it comes a Jewish context at which came and It's now encountering a primarily
29:43: Greek Roman context and As a result questions are being asked that come from a different worldview come with different background and And so you have to you have to come up with answers that will be understandable in a different context and has ever been addressed before and So there is an appropriate kind of development
30:13: But the issue is always what is the source of this development? Where does it come from?
30:19: What's what's what's the grounding of it and And So what has happened with Newman's but what
30:31: Newman did and story is well known you may not be familiar with it, but He opposed
30:40: The Movement to have the Pope declared infallible Which took place at the second
30:47: Vatican County and second Vatican a first Vatican Council. We'll get there eventually And then once it was proclaimed then he had to bow to that authority
31:00: Even though he had demonstrated before 1870
31:07: That the dogma is historically fallacious once Rome says it's true. Then you reinterpret history in light of it
31:15: So here's the problem the development hypothesis necessary For the dogmas that clearly or utterly unknown the early church
31:26: Motley assumption Didn't know anything about it. It was not definitional of the faith.
31:32: It was not there's no way to trace it back to the Apostles. It is a Tradition that develops over time and has now become a dogma of the church
31:41: You have to have Newman's development hypothesis to defend that kind of stuff. The problem is once you embrace it
31:50: You may think well, this is great. This will this will help us. This is this is very very useful until it turns on until it turns on Such theological reflection based on the pastoral vision of Pope Francis implies a real development
32:09: From what has been said about blessings in the magisterium and the official text of the church. It might have just gone ahead and said
32:17: Less than three years ago. Why why do
32:22: I why am I referring to that? Well There is a
32:30: Document that's still on the Vatican website and It is from March 15th 2021 so we're what four months away from it being three years ago.
32:49: So two years eight months This was the preceding guy in charge of the
32:57: Dacastric the two conservative for Francis guy And well, actually this is signed by Louis F Ladario Okay He's been replaced by Fernandez Well Fernandez is in the position he held.
33:20: I don't Don't know when he was removed or retired or whatever Well, this actually says the 22nd of February but Was released on the 15th of February And the question that was proposed that this is an answer to From from it's just a response some of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith.
33:45: So the Dicastery now Does the church have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex
34:00: Less than three years ago after Talking about the nature of blessings their relationship to the sacraments
34:14: Says blessings belong to the category of the sacraments whereby the church calls us to praise God Encourages us to implore his protection and exhorts us to seek his mercy by our holiness of life
34:25: In addition, they have been established as a kind of imitation of the sacraments Blessings are signs above all of Spiritual effects that are achieved through the church's intercession after discussing that it says consequently in order to conform with the nature of sacramentals when a blessing is invoked on particular human relationships in addition to the right intention of those who participate it is necessary that what is blessed be objectively and positively ordered to receive and express grace
34:59: According to the designs of God inscribed in creation and fully revealed by Christ the
35:04: Lord therefore Only those realities which are themselves ordered remember homosexuality within Roman Catholic moral theology is disordered
35:14: Which are in themselves ordered to serve those ends are congruent with the essence of the blessing empowered by the church
35:23: Now, okay, they like using big words I get it but It actually makes perfect sense if you're going to Seek to ask the blessings of the grace of God What the those blessings are to be placed upon have to be?
35:47: congruent With the essence of the blessing imparted by the church So these realities which are in themselves ordered to serve those ends are congruent with the essence of that blessing part of the church
36:01: For this reason it is not licit To impart a blessing on relationships or partnerships even stable
36:11: That involves sexual activity outside of marriage that is outside the indissoluble union of a man and woman open in itself to the transmission of life as Is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex?
36:27: The presence in such relationships of positive elements which are in themselves to be valued and appreciated
36:35: Cannot justify these relationships and render them legitimate objects of an ecclesial blessing
36:42: Since the positive elements exist within the context of a union not ordered to the
36:47: Creator's plan now Whether they want to admit it or not that section contains within it
36:56: The fatal flaw of their theology on this subject When when you have a relationship that is specifically in rebellion
37:07: Against God's created design. You're not going to have anything positive in it because it is marked by its rebellion
37:17: Against the Creator's design. It's it's by nature so by opening that door they
37:23: They provided the way of their own refutation, whether they want to admit it or not
37:31: Furthermore since blessings on persons are in relationship with the sacraments the blessing of homosexual unions cannot be considered licit
37:40: This is because they would constitute a certain imitation or an analog of the nuptial blessing
37:46: Invoked on the man and woman united in the sacrament of matrimony While in fact, there are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family
38:01: So this was the It goes on to say the declaration of the unlawfulness of blessings of unions
38:11: Between persons the same sex is not therefore and is not intended to be a form of unjust discrimination
38:17: But rather a reminder of the truth of the liturgical right and of the very nature of the sacramentals as the church understands them so Here is a consistent
38:33: Stand Reflective of previous positions
38:40: Popes and councils and everything else on this particular issue Which has now
38:48: Been overthrown Has been developed There has been development in the past less than three years.
39:01: I just want you to think about what that means Development in less than three years that fundamentally results in The negation of what we were just talking about here
39:15: Now they try to soften it And of course this is from Francis too, this is less than three years ago they try to soften it by saying
39:31: Check this out at the same time the church recalls that God himself never ceases to bless each of his pilgrim children in this world
39:38: Because for him quote we are more important to God than all of the sins we can commit and Quote and I looked at that and I and I went
39:55: Where did that come from and I scroll down Oh Pope Francis general audience of December 2nd 2020 catechesis on prayer the blessing so they can quote
40:08: Francis in a general audience But if we quote
40:14: Francis in a general audience, then we're taking him out of context and that's not meant to be Constitutive of his own teaching.
40:22: Hmm. Okay, it goes on but he does not and cannot bless sin
40:30: He blesses sinful man so that he may recognize that he is part of his plan of love and Allow himself to be changed by him
40:42: He isn't he in fact takes us as we are but never leaves us as we are and quote
40:49: Sounds like a bunch of emergent church goo Coming straight out of Rome when you when you think about it,
40:59: I Had started to write this Well, I Had almost finished a message when something happened
41:09: I Tried to escape out of something and it lost the entire message
41:14: So this is what I was gonna write in response to somebody this morning who was talking about this stuff these theological errors compound over time and Rome Does not have a finished work of Christ Rome Has a sacramental system
41:40: That functions as channels through which God's grace is controlled by what man does
41:49: Hence the Roman Catholic does not know if they're the blessed man They Cannot know they have peace with God and There are foundational reasons for why this is the foundations are cracked and We're seeing those cracks opening up into broad crevices.
42:13: That's what's happening right now Because Here you have
42:19: Rome speaking in 2021 and now you have Rome speaking in 2023 and they're saying different things and When you think about specifically what it is that they are saying you put this together with what's happening in Germany You put this together with the ongoing purging of conservatives
42:47: You put this together with the synod on a synod on synodality the presentations that were made there
42:57: The people that that Francis is supporting This morning actually
43:03: Dr. Moeller described it Francis changing the church by Suggestion and that's what these types of statements.
43:15: That's what these types of documents are meant to do they are meant to suggest something and Then later on you build on what you had suggested earlier as if you had actually taught it as doctrine and so It was purposeful
43:37: When the Pope long ago on that plane ride Asked about homosexuality who am
43:42: I to judge? he knows how completely out of line that is with his predecessors and there's not a single one of you out there that could look at me right in the eye without breaking up laughing and Say to me in that context that any
44:03: Pope any Pope prior to Francis Would ever have put out a document like this
44:12: Which one when you know, it's not possible
44:18: You know, this represents a fundamental shift and change even when you say well, but you know
44:26: They really try to say we're not changing we're not changing doctrine We're not changing doctor and we can't we cannot change the doctrine of marriage well, you couldn't change the doctrine of capital punishment either, but you did and the fact matter is you can and the system allows it because you have established that office and the person in that office as The final authority he's final authority you can't go to conciliarism
44:59: That was that got put down after conciliarism rescued the church in the
45:07: You know early 15th century so you can't go there you're stuck with this
45:18: You're stuck with this You have development of doctrine and you have up until this point trusted
45:31: In some kind of firewall that would not allow that to bring this kind of situation about But the firewall wasn't there
45:46: I Believed That amongst Protestants at least amongst reformed
45:53: Protestants belief in sola scriptura would function as a firewall to keep us from buying into silly
46:02: Worldly philosophies and wokeness and things like that and I was wrong We saw that starting in 2020
46:09: You may have thought you had a firewall but you don't and You're you're seeing it right in front of you and a lot of you just don't even want to admit it
46:21: The Pope has his defenders today and well, it's really not all that bad and really hasn't changed anything
46:27: It's just talking about you know, how you give blessings and look it's Specifically it says it is precisely in this context that one can understand the possibility of blessing couples in irregular situations and same -sex couples without officially validating their status or Changing in any way the church's perennial teaching on marriage
46:54: That's the claim and I I look at my
47:00: Roman Catholic friends and I go look we've been here we've done that we got the t -shirt and The t -shirt has a picture of all the closed former mainline churches
47:14: That have died because they all said the same stinking thing You need to understand how progressivists act and think
47:25: They're not going for the whole shot at one time we're gonna change the theology of church
47:31: They know that you cannot do that At that speed it has to be done
47:37: Very slowly, but you can do it You can make it happen and that's what the
47:46: Pope is doing if you to stand back Don't get all lost in well, you know, it says this that and the other thing
47:52: Yeah, it it says you're not to give this blessing in Such a way as to bring confusion about what true marriage is
48:04: What you should be addressing is if someone comes to the church in a same -sex union you call them
48:13: To conversion you call them to Christ you call them out of those things
48:19: Such were some of you not such are some of you you use the term repentance and Conversion now,
48:31: I realize your doctrine of baptism has messed all that up Especially talking to baptized quote -unquote baptized
48:37: Catholics. I realize that but there's nothing here
48:43: About well, there is a couple uses the term repentance, but it's it's not the idea of turning from the objective evil of this behavior, so notice it says
49:04: It is precisely in this context that one can understand the possibility of blessing couples in a regular situation same -sex couples without officially validating their status or Changing in any way the church's perennial teaching on marriage all the
49:23: Protestant mainline denominations said that They all said the same thing if we do this, it's not going to impact anything else at all, it's not going to impact your marriage or anything like that and they were lying and conservatives are gullible and so We've heard it all before Do you really honestly think do you really honestly think that This is going to be the end
50:04: It's just going to go this far and no farther look look around Look at the
50:12: PC USA Look at the ELCA look at the United Methodists look at the
50:19: United Church of Christ did they stop with this kind of well
50:26: We have to be really careful that it doesn't look like a marriage
50:32: How do you do that? If you have two people come before a priest and ask him to bless their relationship
50:44: What good does it do if you say But there can't be flowers present
50:51: You know Someone can't be wearing white You know, you can't have a reception afterwards
51:01: What good does that do? Everybody knows what it is Everybody knows what's going on and this isn't just about Rome unfortunately sadly
51:22: Rome in many ways already holds what I would call the side
51:28: B position and If you have Listened to the debate with Gregory Coles, you know what the side
51:36: B position is Within gay Christianity Rome has bought into the idea that even though homosexual desire is disordered.
51:49: It's not sinful There's nothing to repent of And of course we have a different doctrine of repentance forgiveness justification everything
52:00: Sadly and that's part of the problem here, but the the door was already somewhat unlocked because of fundamental theological problems in the
52:11: Roman Catholic system and So you you have This Document which by the way specifically cites the previous one that I was reading from in the second paragraph.
52:25: It's it's found there you have this document and It Says and I said
52:34: I was gonna get to it. Wow. Have I gone nearly an hour already? I'm sorry. I realize I'm going slow Part of it's just you know,
52:46: Rich is telling me to take my time Section 31
52:55: Well, I still have another Topic and I have to get to section 31 of yesterday's document
53:04: Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex the form of which
53:14: Should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion
53:23: With the blessing proper to the sacrament of marriage well
53:30: You wouldn't be having confusion if you were calling people to repentance Rather than blessing this ongoing situation in Such cases a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value
53:48: But also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who now listen to this
53:56: Wrecking that recognizing themselves to be destitute in a need of his help Do not claim a
54:03: Legitimation of their own status But who beg that all that is true good and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched healed and elevated by the presence of the
54:17: Holy Spirit now just pastorally consider
54:24: These words so the blessing
54:31: Descends on who people Recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help
54:39: Do not claim a legitimation of their own status. So Are we to understand that it's going to be appropriate for a priest to ask them if they believe
55:00: Their continued relationship is sinful or not Because if they say our relationship isn't sinful and we're going to continue it that's a claim of that's that's legitimation of their
55:19: Own status to use the exact words of the document So you can only give this blessing to people who recognize they're in a wrong relationship
55:32: And are willing to cease it and Sound like what it's saying, but that would be doing make makes any sense because as long as they continue in it
55:41: Then they are legitimizing it, aren't they? But who begged that all that is true good and humanly valid in their lives and their
55:54: Relationships be enriched healed and elevated but elevated by the presence of Holy Spirit You're literally
56:00: Calling for the presence of the Holy Spirit In a same -sex union this is this is to be for the
56:11: Holy Spirit to enrich heal and elevate That relationship by his presence therein a
56:20: Rebellion read rebellious rejection of His own plainly revealed will
56:27: I say you see We we've gotten
56:35: Whether it's in politics or religion Leftists can write long sentences
56:43: That contain two or three contradictions in one sentence and think it's a good thing and Think that it is doublespeak and and and to and to think that because they use that many syllables
56:58: No one's gonna catch him at it because that sentence makes no sense These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses
57:15: Impulses of his spirit What classical theology? Don't get me started on that what classical theology calls actual grace
57:28: Really? actual grace So that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the gospel
57:36: Folks there is there is only one way for a claimed same -sex marriage
57:47: To grow in fidelity to the gospel and that is by ceasing in repentance right
57:59: If you don't agree with that then you're saying well
58:05: Yes, according to Rome You can have same -sex relationships that can grow in fight.
58:12: They can mature and grow in fidelity to the gospel By the presence of his spirit
58:20: That they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties How do you free a same -sex relationship from its imperfections and frailties?
58:36: I'm just reading you the document and That they may express themselves in the ever -increasing dimension of The divine love that's a lot of words don't think it means anything, but there are a lot of words there
58:53: And I guess that's the idea That's actual grace
59:01: Human relations may Mature and grow in fidelity to the gospel. There's the only one way for that to happen.
59:10: I couldn't help but notice in passing Section 44 says any blessing will be an opportunity for a renewed proclamation of the
59:24: Kerygma. Kerygma is the message of the gospel by the way An invitation to draw ever closer to the love of Christ evidently without repentance as Pope Benedict the 16th taught like Mary The church is the mediator of God's blessing for the world
59:47: She receives it in receiving Jesus and she transmits it in bearing Jesus. He is the mercy and the peace of the world of itself
59:55: He is the mercy and the peace of the world That the world sorry
01:00:01: I put it in green this time wasn't the best one He is the mercy and the peace that the world of itself cannot give in Which it needs always at least as much as bread.
01:00:14: I don't know somewhere in the back of my mind
01:00:21: I'm just wondering if that wasn't meant to be a post -mortem shot of Benedict because Benedict would never have allowed this.
01:00:29: In fact, I want to ask every Roman Catholic. Can you look me in the eye and Tell me that any
01:00:37: Pope before Francis would have ever countenanced what is in this document?
01:00:44: Which one? Which one? The the end of it says
01:00:55: In this way every brother and every sister will be able to feel that in the church
01:01:04: They're always pilgrims always beggars always loved and despite everything always blessed
01:01:10: You know where I heard that language all the time From PCUSA ELCA United Methodist All the ultra leftist liberals, that's what you get every
01:01:31: Sunday from the pulpit and here you have it in the context of Blessing of same -sex unions
01:01:42: As long as it doesn't look like as long as doesn't create confusion
01:01:51: I'm sitting here going I Am I am thankful that I've seen a lot of conservative
01:01:57: Roman Catholics that have read this saying they've read it all the way through and they
01:02:04: They call it what it is. I had a Roman Catholic yesterday. Call it what it is. I Can't repeat what it was what was said, but they call it what it is
01:02:16: It's double speak It has no meaning Yes, sir, you're gonna allow me to take a drink here and say my voice for a second on that You know, it occurs to me.
01:02:27: I think of Who was the Pope that? Pope after Pope anathematized
01:02:33: What on Aureus and I'm thinking about Aureus and it strikes on Aureus is thankful that you're thinking about him
01:02:41: Yeah, I'm sure he is. I have a feeling anyway, we'll not go there It strikes me that he has
01:02:49: He's Taking care to see to it that Popes who follow him do not do what they did to an
01:02:56: Aureus to him and That is by padding the College of Cardinals and seeing to it that he has allies who will take up the mantle after him and This could be going on for generations.
01:03:12: Where's the rich camp? Oh, it's it's fine. We don't need the rich camp but All right, you want the rich you know, you're your legions of fans are
01:03:24: Undoubtedly Displeased there you go that there's no rich camp. There you go.
01:03:30: So but it just it strikes me that he's He's taken a political
01:03:36: He's taken political advantage Where poor on Aureus? Didn't have the foresight
01:03:43: To see to it that those who followed him Would go down that same trail now think about that for a second had on Aureus Done that and had that foresight and padded those who the those who would vote for the next
01:03:59: Pope and the ones that followed that What would the Roman Catholic Church? What would the development be today of that?
01:04:08: well Yeah, I don't know but there is one I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to correct you on one little thing
01:04:16: You know, it's what happens when when you teach church history But what everybody needs to know is until the 10th century the
01:04:24: Bishop of Rome was always selected by the people of Rome the whole
01:04:31: Cardinals and all this stuff is a modern development and it's not how it worked for the first But even better you've got this political environment
01:04:40: He could have taken advantage of and you know I mean, we're seeing it in our own country today the political environment and the tides of war and the tides of Politics, etc.
01:04:53: The point would be that you know, if if he could have seen his lineage going forward
01:05:01: What things would have gone forward with it? Because this guy is This guy isn't just here for a time folks
01:05:09: Oh, no, no He is here for generations to come and he has put his roots down very deep
01:05:17: Well, he's no he knows exactly how to make long -term changes Yeah, he knows how to use the system and that's my point is once you make once you put the infallible head there
01:05:30: You're stuck with them there's there's no there's no Reformation at that point Which again
01:05:38: Tradition tradition tradition Sola scriptura
01:05:45: You know and and some I say well what good the solo scriptura do you do you're telling us all these
01:05:52: Mainline denominations. I've got to turn my volume down if my voice is gonna last another 20 minutes well,
01:05:58: I know but I keep talking about um a Roman Catholic might honestly say
01:06:06: You Multicolored hypocrite because I do have a lot of colors on today.
01:06:11: I like this. This is a nice Is this a coogee or a tundra trying to remember anyway, you're you're you're a glowing hypocrite
01:06:19: Because you're telling us that Presbyterians United Methodists Lutherans, there's all these, you know night
01:06:26: United Church of Christ all these people Apostatized on this stuff a long time ago.
01:06:31: Who do you think you are? And Again, let me point out something to you.
01:06:37: I mean make sure everybody caught this because I mentioned it briefly before none of those denominations
01:06:46: Even have the the
01:06:51: This the still official Roman Catholic view of Scripture Even though it's subjugated to it's put under sacred tradition and you have oral tradition along with it and stuff like that But the official position is still a relatively high view of that.
01:07:07: They abandoned that stuff long ago You cannot practice sola scriptura if you do not believe that God has spoken in Scripture If you do not believe when
01:07:15: Jesus said have you not read what God spoke to you? When when Peter said men were carried along by the
01:07:21: Holy Spirit as they spoke from God If you don't believe that you can't you may have solo scriptura in your confession of faith.
01:07:30: It doesn't matter. You don't believe it You can't believe it you can't practice it and Those denominations the first step they took on the road to having rainbow stolled priestesses
01:07:45: Was they abandoned the sufficiency inspiration of Scripture and so as I said if you look at those denominations that Not only believe in solo scriptura
01:08:02: But practice it knowingly they understand
01:08:09: Here's what? Here's how tradition gets in the way. Here's how tradition is brought in and this is how we're gonna fight that When you look at what they believe on God gospel
01:08:23: Church Sacraments very close together very close together
01:08:33: You look at various groups that say we believe the Bible plus an infallible external authority and those groups can't even
01:08:41: Agree on whether there's one God or many so that should be the comparison that you're making
01:08:47: It's normally not the comparison that's made but that should be the comparison that you're making so to sum all this up There's much more to this document than meets the eye
01:09:01: I'm sure there's all sorts of stuff going back and forth between Germany and in Rome and I know that I'm sure that the last thing
01:09:12: Francis wants to see happen is Some class some some kind of clear and obvious schism during his days and so That's in the background the
01:09:27: Synod is in the background Francis's health is in the background those are those are all there and if you don't put this document in that context and See it as simply the next step in many steps that have already been taken by Francis To move
01:09:48: Rome down this road. This is not going to be the last thing They may
01:09:54: When's when's the next Synod meeting? Is it April of next year? Is that what I'm remembering?
01:09:59: I think it might be April of next year That's going to be our next big indicator
01:10:07: What's going to come out there? What if Francis dies what if he resigns well that can change change everything
01:10:17: But not in the sense of See everything that Francis is doing
01:10:23: He's doing to try to make sure that the direction cannot be changed when he does die
01:10:33: Can can that get messed up well, of course everything can But we'll see we will see
01:10:41: So, there you go. I had a friend asking about this particular thing and I said we'll be talking about today on the program but especially keep in mind
01:10:54: That Fernandez himself Used the term
01:11:00: Development That's how he explains the fundamental difference between March of 2021 and December of 2023
01:11:12: That's development the change on the death penalty development
01:11:21: Adding dogmas to the gospel that have that were unknown the first 500 years of the church development
01:11:32: Once you don't have solo scriptura Development solves you got and what's it going to develop on the basis of not an unchanging divine revelation
01:11:47: But Society societal development Political power money a lot of corruption in the
01:11:57: Vatican a lot of corruption in the Vatican And oh, it's so sad to see all the people well You know if he's actually said that then that just makes him an antipope and we've had antipodes before but will survive will be good
01:12:13: And you're just like Okay, all right, well You just hope and pray that the
01:12:21: Lord Opens hearts and minds okay a
01:12:27: Quarter topic here just a quarter topic as I transition into the last part If You know if you saw the videos last night
01:12:39: My nation is being invaded literally over the past three years
01:12:49: Millions millions more than the population of a number of our states put together Have invaded this country and they've done so illegally
01:12:59: I I would I saw a video less than a month ago of a bunch of young military men
01:13:13: Looked Asian Military aged men Wayne be processed, you know what they're doing.
01:13:19: They're standing a parade rest. I don't think they realized it but they're they're plainly trained military they're standing a parade rest and They're undocumented immigrants and at Eagle what
01:13:35: Eagle whatever it is down there in Texas last night just just Eagle pass just Thousands and thousands of people this nation has been taken over by its enemies
01:13:52: If if law had any meaning and if we understood what the word treason meant
01:13:59: Um, there would be a lot of gallows being set up whatever happened when this fundamental change takes place
01:14:11: Here's the problem in God's blessing. This nation has been a stabilizing force in the world
01:14:19: I'm not saying it has not has always been a force for good because it hasn't especially since World War two
01:14:27: There's been a lot of greed There's been a lot of imperialism On America's part.
01:14:34: No question about it. Some of the things that government has done Eisenhower tried to warn us.
01:14:41: I Didn't know about it But Eisenhower tried to warn us. He saw it coming What we call the swamp the deep state it's been around for a long time
01:14:53: But I think they're they're cutting cutting off their nose spite their face There's going to be upheavals coming there really are and When I see this did you see that what was it called the
01:15:11: American Bible or something where it's got Some largest on the Baptist Church, I Think well,
01:15:19: I had published this and it's got the Bible Constitution Declaration of Independence a
01:15:28: This Trump guns and the Bible garbage
01:15:35: It is the kind of Christian nationalism that we're not even talking about it's the but it's the stuff that is actually drawing huge crowds
01:15:46: You know Mike Flynn. Yeah this kind of stuff is frightening
01:15:53: Frightening scary stuff because it has no connection to the gospel at all has no connection to holiness of life or Anything like that at all?
01:16:05: That's not gonna stop anything. So when this nation Fundamentally ceases to be this nation.
01:16:14: The world will reel And what's gonna end up happening is so much violence will result that that's where the cry for a
01:16:28: Totalitarianism will come from as people get sick and tired of the violence and I said
01:16:33: I just want food if that means I have to give up all of my liberties to get it That's when they'll be willing to do it just seeing it happening and Feeling in a sense helpless to do anything about it
01:16:52: But knowing what the answer is all along and So we have to we have to remain focused upon that answer
01:17:03: And not give up hope in that but there is There's there's going to be there's going to be some challenges
01:17:09: Anyways, I just wanted to cover that very very quickly because I saw that coming. All right, I need to wrap up by the way,
01:17:18: I'm seeing that there may be a That the issue of Christian nationalism may be
01:17:29: Solved and decided much earlier than we thought it was going to be because there is going to be a
01:17:39: Wrap -off Between Owen Strand and Somebody who is a
01:17:46: Christian nationalist where they're going to have a competition and Owen strands going to be against them and they're going to be doing a rap thing and Whoever wins the rap thing.
01:17:58: I guess that's where we that's where we all get to Maybe the only way we all get together I suppose, but I never expected to be
01:18:07: To go that direction. Oh Goodness which reminds me
01:18:13: I I just I need to write to Jeffrey Johnson And find out what
01:18:24: I'm getting the new book Because it should have been out yesterday,
01:18:30: I Forgot yesterday. I've got I've been a busy weekend and for some reason
01:18:37: Lots of stuff going on this week, too Some still I'm falling behind on a lot of things and because we need to have have
01:18:44: Jeffrey on I'll be talking about the book and It just struck me
01:18:50: I'm not sure what oh I guess looking at I saw Owen strands name over on Twitter and that's like oh, hey,
01:18:57: I Forgot to because I told Jeffrey you want to have him on talk about it.
01:19:03: And he said that'd be great. And so I Listened to the book once again on my last trip was one of the driving things we were doing
01:19:14: All right to wrap up from last week Um We had the discussion where we played some of the comments from the webcast in the
01:19:28: UK pastor Briggs from Emanuel in Sacramento Steve Meister his fellow pastor there and What happened was
01:19:45: I forget how it started But Comments were made on Twitter Robert Briggs went on to Twitter You can still follow the whole conversation on my
01:20:02: Twitter feed it's still there and I Was actually
01:20:10: Taking screenshots of it this morning to provide to someone who's not on Twitter and I'd say 90 % came from me and 10 % came from brother
01:20:26: Briggs And The useful part of it was this
01:20:33: I Had asked for names to be named if you're gonna go on a webcast and say unnamed people are
01:20:44: Are Dangerous to the Reformed Baptist movement causing division
01:20:50: And and he was right there. There's there's two perspectives But he identified the other perspective as biblicist
01:20:58: Neo -sassinian canonicist Dishonest lacking in integrity wasn't nice wasn't nice descriptions by any stretch of the imagination
01:21:10: His description of the other side was highly divisive in and of itself not a lot of hope for unity when that's your that's your description and So we started talking and I just laid out very clearly
01:21:31: I said You need to name names if you're gonna call some someone neo -sassinian Here is what sassinianism is about And So you're you're you're tarring and feathering somebody with anti -trinitarianism and heresy and all this stuff
01:21:54: Well, let me just summarize. Yes. They were talking about me. Yes.
01:22:01: I am a canonicist according to them And The Answer To the
01:22:12: Neo -sassinian objection is it's not their anti -trinitarianism.
01:22:18: It's their methodology well as I The idea is their idea is well, they were biblicists
01:22:29: They rejected the creeds of the church for a for sets of biblical arguments
01:22:38: And of course we've refuted this canard over and over again and it's quite possible that brother
01:22:46: Briggs hasn't listened because he says all I do is rant and rave and I'm filled with anger and all the rest of stuff like Brother, you're projecting
01:22:56: You're you're projecting on me. You need to stop that. That's that's not the case at all but The fact the matter is they were rationalists
01:23:07: They rejected supernatural elements in the text of scripture and therefore would not accept key and vitally and important realities of incarnation and and Things like that let alone the personality and deity of the
01:23:24: Holy Spirit and so Just as so many Joe is witnesses today.
01:23:30: They were they were rationalists And so it's there first of all, there wasn't there wasn't any one methodology but if there if you would look at their catechism and and sort of what developed it would be a rationalism not a chapter one of the
01:23:48: London Baptist Confession believe in the sufficiency of scripture so And I just simply point out then focus on the methodology and Stop with the absurd
01:24:03: Insulting terminology, I'd be like me, you know calling someone a neo -mormon or a neo -jehovah's -witness
01:24:10: Or a neo -papist or whatever. There's no reason. There's no reason to add the Extra color in that only detracts if they're if they're if they were going to be acting with integrity
01:24:25: Then what they would do is they would say look we have changed and We used to believe
01:24:36: That Scripture alone was sufficient to answer these things. But now we understand that we need to have a significantly
01:24:47: Deeper connection to the tradition of the church to the
01:24:55: Ancient creeds and symbols now, of course, they're not going to be consistent there They're only going to talk about the specific creedal statements
01:25:06: Not the cannons and decrees They're not going to in other words They're not going to look at Nicaea or Chalcedon the way that the people and I see in Chalcedon looked at Nicaea and Chalcedon Because whether they want to admit it or not if you're a
01:25:20: Baptist you're a biblicist There's no way around You are a biblicist when you look
01:25:28: Luther was a biblicist the church said to him, here's our confessions and creeds and Luther said
01:25:38: I hold them up to the standard of Scripture We all used to agree on that.
01:25:44: I Still do I think most of us still do But a movement has developed and It happens in every movement over time and sometimes multiple times every few generations where those foundational commitments get shaky and there's a longing after Certain liturgical traditions or things like that and academia and stuff like that's scholasticism and people
01:26:20: Shift their emphasis. They don't want to talk about that if if these folks really really really really
01:26:30: Wanted to engage these things They wouldn't be using terms like neosycinia and all the rest of stuff and using a term of biblicist that has no meaning
01:26:37: At all that no one's causing that kind of problem. Nobody on our side is
01:26:43: Holds to well, you should only use the words of Scripture to describe the teaching is written. Yeah, give me a break.
01:26:49: Nope Nobody's doing that If they really want to make an impact then they put all that other stuff aside and they focus on what the real issue is and the real issue is is
01:27:01: Scripture sufficient to give us what we need to know and What is the relationship?
01:27:09: between the content of divine truth Revealed historically through the
01:27:16: Apostles and Prophets and especially in the person of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ what is the relationship between that and Credal statements in the past and confessional statements today.
01:27:30: I think the authors of the London Baptist Confession nailed it. I really do
01:27:38: But the question comes down to how do you make applications?
01:27:47: And that's what they won't go after. That's what they won't touch if they if I am such a danger to Reform Baptists Then why hasn't this group?
01:28:02: Gotten together and published a full -scale rebuttal of the article that It's over there.
01:28:09: I'm not gonna stand up to go get it That's in the current edition of the
01:28:15: GBTS journal I'm sorry previous edition of the GBTS journal on Solus Quaterna Where all
01:28:24: I do is I just I just walked through the key texts in chapter 1 and said
01:28:30: Here's what this means. Here's this means this how you make application of that. I Would think if the real issue was oh, we've just we've just got these neosocinian
01:28:42: Canonicists just running rampant amongst us now get that that's all that's all smoke and mirrors
01:28:49: It's it's pure bunk Has nothing doing anything We're talking here about what natural theology is what natural revelation is we're talking about Methodology and The fact of matter is we hold the ground there
01:29:09: We hold the ground there And that's why you're doing all this Imaginary these people are dangerous.
01:29:16: Try to cancel them type stuff I'm seeing it happening. Not just amongst
01:29:23: Reformed Baptists, but other groups as well to try to warn people off of that terrible
01:29:29: James white guy and when people ask why and keep asking why they eventually get down to what the real issues and So yes to complete the story from last week
01:29:46: Yes, that was I'm I'm that terrible horrible person in the midst of all that.
01:29:56: I'm the terrible horrible person in the midst of all that and It had really no substance to it it comes down to these other issues
01:30:09: About fundamental sources of authority And just to a form of confessionalism that requires a level of Compliance that is so narrow That the the
01:30:26: Presbyterians learned a long time ago. It doesn't work In other words Presbyterians recognized
01:30:33: We have to allow some level of liberty in the interpretation of these things or We will never we won't be able to get keep two churches together and Reformed Baptists have not yet learned that well
01:30:50: I have but The big boys the big names they haven't and I I keep saying
01:31:01: It's gonna create a a brittle easily breakable
01:31:07: Well, it's already broken up. I mean You know 20 years ago we were the big the big thing was
01:31:13: Arbuka Arbuka's gone and there are a lot of reasons that but but that was one of the primary reasons is a emphasis upon the confession that requires a
01:31:29: Strict subscriptionism That the Presbyterians have come to recognize is
01:31:36: Is fatal That doesn't that doesn't mean you just don't care what it says it means that these are words written by men and there are many times where they have to be interpreted as well and some people want to just Demand a very very narrow interpretation of things so anyways, so want to just Report on that that the conversation had taken place publicly
01:32:10: And that the names were finally confirmed and as and then
01:32:19: No, the the only defense that was given for the neo -sassanian thing was well, we're not talking about the
01:32:26: Trinity. We're talking about methodology that you have the Sasanian methodology, which again is
01:32:33: Pure bunk Utterly untrue and could be applied to Luther Calvin Zwingli anybody
01:32:42: It's really it's cheap cheap lazy type of argumentation that hopefully will not be repeated again in the future
01:32:48: But I'll go ahead and predict now probably will be So yes, sir
01:32:58: Find find the button there What are you doing pushing buttons here
01:33:04: There is one Part of this discussion that I keep that's been revived over the last week and that is the so -called
01:33:15: Meeting that you refused. No, let me correct that I raised that What brother
01:33:23: Briggs was talking about is he reposted a message. He sent me in Facebook I don't remember having seen it but because face
01:33:29: I hate Facebook as you know Yes, if you ever want to send send me something that I will not see send it to me in Facebook.
01:33:35: Um I'm stuck on it because I'm stuck on it because I'm the old guy at Apologia and all the rest of them grew up on it
01:33:45: So they use Facebook. Oh, yeah. Anyways, he sent me this message and I still use it too So what I still use it too.
01:33:52: We use it you just you know, don't really participate. No, that's true and so anyways
01:34:00: He was specifically talking about Sometime when he'd said we should talk on the phone about one of these issues.
01:34:07: I forget which one it was and it wasn't the Thing to come up there and talk to dole's all and right and all the rest
01:34:17: So he said no, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about this and that's fair I'm referring to though is
01:34:23: I have seen again. I don't remember seeing it. But yeah, I've seen a number of people over the last week
01:34:30: Reposting and Talking about that meeting that you refuse to go to it Etc.
01:34:35: Again number one they wanted to do this in private and That's never been how we do things here.
01:34:43: We don't go, you know, hold up in a secret room and You know yammer about things and then
01:34:51: Come out. This stuff needs to be done publicly anyway But the idea that you somehow are dodging them
01:35:00: You know, I actually posted last week I wonder if they would object to This if we the next time they have a conference like they did shortly after that challenge on our back doorstep
01:35:13: If we just went in and plopped ourselves down in the front row, how would they react to that? Can we talk publicly now?
01:35:19: No, we won't because we all know what will happen. We'll be shown the door and maybe rightly so that's why you didn't do it in the first place, but The the disingenuousness the dishonesty the misrepresentation needs to stop
01:35:37: It just needs to stop I said that last week and yes you did and I'm Saying it too.
01:35:44: It needs to stop because the thing is is that it is a reflection on their character when they do this and they keep doing it and We're gonna keep pointing it out and I'll throw this in while I'm at it here
01:35:59: You know a number of these guys have gone back to your sermons or to your messages this program from the past It's all out there.
01:36:09: We've never hidden a single program Okay, never so the entire body of work is out there for them to Listen to etc.
01:36:19: Find out if you've made some major Change in anything, you know what a lot of these guys's stuff is out there, too
01:36:28: It's true and the big question they need to be asking themselves as they're so dogmatically
01:36:36: Making these proclamations now is if I go back ten years in my sermons
01:36:42: Will I find myself contradicting what I'm saying now? No, there's a lot of them are no and they and they say yes
01:36:49: And that's the whole point but they accuse you of being the one that changed. Yeah, but they but no that here's his no
01:36:56: I I disagree They say We were confused. We didn't know we weren't exact enough and We've changed and we've learned and we've grown and you're just simply digging your heels in and you refuse to mature with the rest of us
01:37:13: That's how they do it So they so they will admit you can go back ten years fifteen years and we will not be precise enough
01:37:24: They will say that well and then their argument is and you just need to listen to the rest of us and you need to come along with the rest of us and you need to Do what we're telling you to do and the issues are only on a tiny little.
01:37:40: Yeah, it's my spectrum of time I mean what language that you use to describe the fact that The one scene in Isaiah 6 is glorious and the one scene walking next to the
01:37:57: Sea of Galilee is Not glorious as he was in Isaiah 6. Okay.
01:38:02: What do you call that? You call that veiling you can have all this discussion of Subtraction by addition and all the rest of this kind of stuff and I'm like look
01:38:15: I've spent I we did that Christology dividing line Where we we went for hours, there's two or three hours and describing what
01:38:23: Nestorian is and what you ticking ism is What a pollinarian ism is why we believe in the hypothetic
01:38:31: Union and True canonicism is a form of either you ticking ism or a pollinarian ism depending on who's formulating it and I to accuse me of that is just so absurd, but Unfortunately Many in the
01:38:52: Reform Baptist movement have gotten their nose stuck in the attraction of scholastic ism and they literally are trying to teach their people to appreciate 25 page complicated philosophical treatises on Specific language to avoid or use in talking about the hypothetic
01:39:13: Union Without having actually gotten them to even understand what the deity of Christ is from Scripture yet and it's going to It's gonna have long -term.
01:39:26: Yeah deleterious effects that we've warned about but What can we say?
01:39:32: So I think we're both on the same page. They have fallen in a pit and And They need to go back to where they were
01:39:41: Well, I don't I'm not gonna I'm not going to say that That they need to forget any
01:39:49: New publications that have come out from the framers or anything like that. My concern honestly is
01:39:55: They need to recognize that there is a fundamental inconsistency Between being a
01:40:01: Reform Baptist and trying to have a seat at the table of the great tradition Yeah if they
01:40:08: They can't pull it off. This this isn't what brought me to the faith and it's not what's kept me and it's not
01:40:14: It's I I keep going back to the scriptures. It's all I have. It's the only anchor That leads me to the truth
01:40:23: I'm just not gonna veer from that no matter how many fancy words and Aristotelian metaphysical
01:40:31: Anomalies they want to bring up. I'm just not interested. I'm not gonna be well when when our when our top leaders are presenting
01:40:39: Papers on the appreciating Thomas Aquinas at the Vatican. That's when I go. Yeah, I think
01:40:45: I think we lost the lost the plot somewhere along the line and maybe
01:40:52: I mean unless hey, hey if I can go to the Vatican and Proclaim the gospel these people and call them to Abandon their man -made traditions that keep them from having peace with God great, but that's not how you get an invitation to know
01:41:08: No, that's not how you get an invitation. Okay. So anyway, all righty. There you go we went a bit longer than we thought somehow my voice survived all that and We will be back
01:41:19: Lord willing on Thursday I believe to Take you right into the
01:41:26: Christmas holiday with a little bit more Discussion of Christian theology and apologetics, so thanks for watching the program today.