Discipleship

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, "...but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you."

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry I am holding down,

I am suppressing my laughter right now, Steve. In unrighteousness or righteousness?

No. We were just talking about a caller, a listener, a subscriber to No Compromise Radio, and they said they liked it when we laughed together.

I like it when we laugh too. One, two, three, laugh. I kind of like it when we giggle together.

I don't even know what a giggle is. When Luke had to have his hernia operation five years ago, instead of giving him an

IV to start the sedation, they gave him a little thing of juice, it looked like. It was only about two fluid ounces, and it was blue, pink, some kind of strange color.

It was in a Dixie cup, and you know what they called it, Steve? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between blue and pink.

I think that should be pretty obvious. Go ahead. What do they call it? They called it giggle juice. Giggle juice.

And so I think it was a little Versed or something for children, and they could just drink it down and then they would become relaxed before the

IV needle went in. Now, is the root of Versed the same as for truth, you know, verity? I think on past shows that Ellen G.

White of the Seventh -day Adventist must have drank a little giggle juice before she came up with some of those crazy doctrines.

They're really good. We are going to play this show after Memorial Day, but before Memorial Day we are taping it, and so this weekend,

Memorial Day, I'm very glad I'm not a Seventh -day Adventist for Memorial Day because A, I don't think they celebrate it, and B, I don't know about the grilled tofu on the barbie, but it just doesn't...

It's pretty tough to keep, but, you know, we've tried multiple different ways, and tofu's nasty, let me just say.

I guess you never have a bad cut of meat, you know, you say, that's kind of rough steak there. I don't know about these curds.

How would you like your steak, how would you like your tofu cooked, a medium raw? I just like it nicely braised.

So today we're not going to talk about Seventh -day Adventism, although that would make a good study. I guess so, since you've done it.

Let's talk about coffee. Let's talk about discipleship a little bit.

Steve, tell me what your definition of discipleship is, and you have a discipleship group on Wednesday morning now around coffee.

So see, they link together. These concepts go together, coffee and discipleship.

Well, I think, I don't know if they do or not, but yes, well, you know,

Jesus gave us the command, we think of the Great Commission, and, you know, we often think that that's just to go around baptizing people, and, you know, to get people to believe, but the heart of it is making disciples.

And just for review, in verse 18 of Matthew 28, he says, and Jesus came and said to them,

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the

Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

And behold, I am with you always to the end of the age. And what I'm trying to do in terms of the group we have on Wednesday morning is

I'm trying to get the men to, first of all, get their hands dirty in the

Bible, to really know the Bible, the ins and outs of scripture, and then to be able to teach as much as they know.

And so what I'm trying to do is replicate as much as I can, you know, to imprint on them what

I know. Is replicate, is that, I think that was a Star Trek episode, replication factor?

Well, you go to the replicator, and that's where you get your tea, Earl Grey. I am nomad,

I am nomad. So, Steve, how about this for discipleship? You'll like this quote by E .M.

Bounds, We are constantly on a stretch, if not on a strain, to devise new methods, new plans, new organizations to advance the

Church and secure enlargement and efficiency for the Gospel. Men, rather, are

God's method. The Church is looking for better methods. God is looking for better men. Preach it.

So how does that apply to discipleship? Well, because what we're really trying to do is we're trying to,

I don't want to say create better men, we're trying to get them to take their responsibilities and their, really their position in Christ seriously and more seriously.

And then as they learn and grow, to then take what they are learning and pass those on to their wives and to their kids, specifically their kids.

Now certainly when we look at 2 Timothy chapter 2, when it comes to discipleship, we're talking about men to men regarding discipleship, but really this is a universal principle.

We are after ladies' discipleship, men's discipleship, discipling children. We're basically egalitarians when it comes to discipleship, aren't we?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I told the men on Wednesday morning if, you know, they don't have some kind of influence in what their wives are learning, that they're not loving

Christ or they're not loving their wives like Christ loved the church because they're letting other factors come into their wives' lives that they don't know anything about, other teaching that they don't know anything about.

And they need to be, I wouldn't really call it gatekeepers, but they need to be shepherds. At Bethlehem Bible Church now, as you know,

Steve, we have a horde of new babies, a flock of new babies.

A plethora, a cornucopia. When there's a group of turkeys, what is that?

A gaggle of turkeys. Yes, it is. Or a gaggle of geese. And so we have all kinds of new... Well, maybe that's it. Yeah, a gaggle.

What's the turkey deal? An abomination of turkeys. If you had a large group of tofu boxes, what would that be?

An abomination. That's what that would be. The reproduction that goes on at Bethlehem Bible Church regarding small children,

I think we do that very well. There are so many baby showers, there are so many children around.

I actually think it's wonderful to see all these new babies. But I think the reproduction spiritually, we're lagging a little behind that.

And so I think we should be able to train men, men, men, and then women, women, so that any place, any time, anywhere, they could sit down and preach the gospel to others, to disciple other people.

Aren't we after one generation training the next generation, training the next generation, reproducing yourself through spiritual means?

That's right. You know, even as you were saying that, I was thinking, it kind of reminds me of, you know, like a double reverse or triple reverse or whatever, where we just keep handing the football off to somebody else, the next generation, the next generation.

And when we stop doing that, then the church is really going to be in trouble.

And we're going to see, if you examine church history, one thing that you'll notice is when we look at dark periods of the church's history, what's happened?

People have stopped teaching the next generation how to proclaim the truth. They've stopped teaching the

Bible and stopped instructing them in the proper study of it. Well, one of the things we want to do here at No Compromise Radio, and in the local church as well, is not try to come across like we know everything, and we have the answers, and we are the dispensers of truth.

Steve, don't we want to say God use us as a conduit, use us as some PVC pipe, as it were, so we can teach people the truth so they know what we know.

There's no special knowledge. There's no we're the Pope and we have the Bible, and if you want it, you've got to come to us.

Of course, we teach. Of course, we proclaim. Of course, we disciple. But we want the people to know the Bible for themselves so that when we die, the church doesn't cave in.

Absolutely. And, you know, what you said is so key in this sense too, because if we've taught someone all that we know, whatever that may be, and they want to excel all the more,

I don't sit back and go, well, wait a minute. I didn't teach him that. He can't do that. I'd be thrilled.

I'd be thrilled if the next, you know, great mind of the church came out of Bethlehem Bible Church and, you know, excelled us all the more, you know, excelled you,

I guess. I am no man. I found a list of measurable quality factors in a book called

Leading Your Church to Growth by C. Peter Wagner. Oh, well, that must be a really wag the tail of the dog book.

C. Peter Wagner run. And this book surveyed all kinds of pastors.

Literally the text says 100 or 100 kind of pastors, 100 to hundreds of pastors.

I don't know what it says. Twelve factors for growing a church. Twelve factors.

Twelve factors. Now we're going to do this very quickly. Everything you need to know to grow your church. And this is in ranking order.

Bible knowledge, personal devotions, worship, witnessing, lay ministry, missions, giving, fellowship, distinctive lifestyle, attitude towards religion, social service, social justice.

And in light of our program titled today, Discipleship, what is missing? Was that discipleship?

You should see Steve's face. His nose is kind of wrinkled up a little bit. Where is discipleship on that list?

Well, and I was just, you know, I'm going if number 12 in the church's priorities is social justice. Hello.

I mean, if we had 12 priorities and we listed that as number 12, I'd be looking for another church. Well, it should be like number 12 ,000,

I think. I am no, I would have to pull that old Star Trek up. That was that special.

Please do. Could we run that on, you know, one of your Monday shows? No, man. Funny. I was thinking Tuesday. There's a church locally and I know they would like to grow and I'd like they'd like to excel for the

Lord. And I think they realize they don't have the right discipleship format in the local church.

But if you don't have the right theological methodological viewpoint, that is a high view of God, et cetera, does discipleship do as much good?

No. I mean, you've got essentially the blind leading the blind. And that's not, that's not an effective model for discipleship.

In fact, would that be a good discipleship group or book? You know, how to disciple the blind leading the blind that that probably wouldn't sell very many copies.

We want discipleship, but I think what we're trying to say is the discipleship that is the best is found in a biblical church.

And so you could say, well, I go to an Armenian charismatic church, but the discipleship is great. I guess you could say that you can say pretty much you could say anything, can't you?

Well, yeah. Especially if you're in an Armenian charismatic church, because you always cover any error with the

Lord told me. But we're assuming that you're at a Bible teaching church, high view of God, Christ is proclaimed week by week in expository fashion.

And we then want the next step to be taken, personal discipleship.

I wonder if there's anyone at your church that you attend that knows more about Christ and his word than you do.

I think you should probably find that person out and start learning from that person. And if there's not someone like that at your church and you're not the pastor, then there's something wrong.

Well, we have one person at our church now, Steve, I won't mention any names. He wanted to learn more about the

Bible, went to his old pastor. The pastor says, I can't help you learn more. You'll have to go to seminary.

And then a few months later, that person is here with his family. Well, he did the right thing. All right,

Steve, No Compromise Radio here today. Talking to Steve Cooley. Tell me about the personal nature of discipleship.

I mean, we are discipling when we're preaching, but tell me about, you said, you get your hands dirty with the

Bible. How about getting your hands dirty with other men as you train them on Wednesdays? Well, because in the exchange, you know, when you're talking with a man,

I mean, kind of, unless I'm in the pulpit, I like interaction. It's a good thing. And so as people, as the guys give me answers or as they ask questions, it kind of reveals something about where they are and what they know and maybe where their weaknesses are.

And so that gives me new areas that I need to then expand upon. You know, if someone is having a great deal of difficulty finding a particular book in the

Bible, and let's be honest, a lot of us struggle when, I mean, even me, if I'm going, okay, minor prophet,

I almost have to rattle them off in order, you know, in order to get them. It's good to be so familiar with the

Bible that it is really literally our best friend that we can turn to things and not have to go, okay,

Zephaniah, where, where is that? It ought to be second nature. And so that's just part of what

I mean by getting our hands dirty in the text. We ought to be familiar also with a very often used text.

For example, when I, when I said, you know, Romans three, 10 to 12, and the guys are looking back at me with blank stares,

I'm going, we, we had to know that one, you know, no one seeks after God and no one's good.

And, you know, the, you don't have to be able to memorize them everything, but there are certain texts that you ought to just know.

Steve, 1 Thessalonians 2 .8, having thus a fond affection for you, we were well pleased to impart to you not only the gospel of God, but also our own lives because you had become very dear to us.

And I think there's an aspect of discipleship where the personal touch really blossoms, really flourishes.

And that is one of the things about discipleship that I like because like when you ask them a question, then they tell you where they are and you get to know them.

On Sunday mornings, pretty much I think everybody agrees with me because they just shake their head while I preach. Yeah. I mean, there's no, there's really no interaction there unless there's a random hallelujah coming from the congregation, but, uh, but, but, but it's also, you know, it really is life on life because in, in the discipleship process, one of the things

I can talk about it, I mean, I'm a little bit older. I don't really sound older, but a little bit older.

And so I've been through some things. I have some life experience that some of these guys don't have. And so I can, you know, tell them about successes and failures that I've had and things that I've learned either the hard way or been blessed by, you know, in spite of my own inadequacies to just go, well, you know what,

I did things wrongly, but look at how the Lord used, you know, the things that I tried to do, you know, and that kind of thing.

Isn't it inevitable when you're sitting with the Bible and some other man talking and there's a leader who's knowledgeable and he's trying to pour his life into the other men, that life issues come up, crises come up, prayer requests come up, life on life.

And I think that's what Paul was talking about with the church at Thessalonica. Listen to, to Liefeld, not merely mentoring in the sense of giving information and offering guidance.

That is not what Christian discipling and mentoring are about. To mentor a Timothy means to be available, to spend time with him or her and to seek to facilitate.

Now, I don't know about the him or her part, but I like his point that it's life on life and it's not just sterile, academic.

I give you information and that's as far as it goes. Yeah, practical questions come up. You know, what do, what do

I do? I have a, I have a friend and you know, not the prototypical fake friend. I have a friend on Facebook.

But I have a friend who's an unbeliever who's coming to me with this problem. You know, what do I do? And of course

I say, well, the first thing you need to do is give them the gospel. Second thing you need to do is tell them you don't have any wisdom outside of scripture itself.

And so then you, you give them the gospel, you talk to them about what the Bible says about their issue, and then you can apply what the

Bible says specifically to that particular issue. But, you know, if they're just looking for general life advice, they should call

Dr. Laura or, you know, go see a shrink or something else. Because if they want the wisdom of man, then they should go seek the wisdom of men.

If they want the wisdom of God, then you can offer them that. Dr. Laura, that just reminded me.

Did you know Nancy Pelosi is quitting her job and she's going to become a talk show host? She's taking over for Dr.

Laura. Is she really Dr. Nancy? Now, one of the problems with discipleship in a local church is that it has the potential to cause a lot of problems.

And here's what I mean by that. When you have a cheap Christianity and that cheap Christianity manifests itself via I show up on Sunday morning, that's it.

And, you know, everybody looks pretty good on Sunday morning. There's no problems there. But once you start saying to men, in particular,

Steve, because I'm thinking about your Wednesday study, I'd like you to read this book. I'd like you to memorize these verses.

I'd like you to show up on time. Whatever you ask them to do, they could either succeed or they could fail.

That is to say, Sunday morning you show up, you could audit it before men, not before God, but before men.

But if it's read this book to show up to the next coffee house meeting, they can show up and go, you know, and I didn't read the book.

And so I think it can cause problems, especially when some people bail out and they think you're not being nice to them.

Yeah. And I mean, I've been exceptionally nice so far. It's nice to be nice to you.

And it's good to be good. I am no man. Well, you know, because because, you know, we're starting at six o 'clock in the morning.

And for those of you who live in the area, I won't tell you where it is. Six o 'clock in the morning is one session.

Is Bickford's open that early? And Bickford's is no longer a business, sadly, which it was a blow to the entire community.

But, you know, and so I've been gracious thus far. But, you know, we are about to accelerate the program,

I think, a little bit. So things might be getting a little bit more difficult. But I just want the men to understand, you know, the importance of,

A, being a student. Because I've told them, you can't teach what you don't know. You know, if you're expecting your kids to grow just via what they hear on church on Sunday, that is not sufficient.

They need to hear it from you. And I've given them personal testimony from my own life, you know, and the things that I've heard from my own kids and the impact that teaching at the dining room table has had on them.

And it's vital. The biggest teacher, the biggest influence in any young person's life should be their father.

Steve, let's go back to the basics. Discipleship. What do you think discipleship is? Wouldn't you say—I think you would say, because—

I would say it because you're about to read it. I just think it means a learner.

Yeah. Right. By definition, discipleship, a disciple means a learner. That's what the word is. And so we learn how to better worship

Christ Jesus, to show our thanksgiving, to walk by faith, a variety of different ways we could describe it.

But we're learning more and more about the Christian faith from someone who's a more seasoned saint, somebody who is more mature than us.

And so when MacArthur said, a Christian who isn't discipling someone is a contradiction, you're supposed to be reproducing your life in the lives of others.

What does that do for the people who are in the local church and they're brand new? They're only been a

Christian for a year. Should they be discipling someone? Well, at the very least, you know, I think you've said this on many occasions.

There should be somebody at the church who knows less than you and somebody who knows more than you, and you should be trying to attach yourself in each direction.

And so for a newer Christian, at the very least, what they could be doing is giving their testimony to unbelievers.

I mean, that would be a form of discipleship. They'd be teaching someone who knows less than them because an unbeliever obviously knows less than a believer.

And I brought it up because it works perfectly, Steve, with your idea that fathers need to disciple their wife and then their—not the father's wife, but their husbands, their wives—and then husbands, not only to the wives, but fathers, their children.

That's right. I think the children probably know less than you do. I mean, there are some exceptions. That's right. And, you know,

I tell people, you know, when I first got saved, I think my wife knew more about the Bible than I did.

But that didn't stop—she knew more Scripture, but she didn't have it down in a systematic way.

And as I learned and grew, I mean, it really was kind of a challenge for me to kind of excel her. And if she's listening,

I think she would agree with it that this eventually did take place. And it's helpful.

Why? Because if I'm to be the leader in the home, well, the leader in the home can't know less than everybody else knows.

So if your wife is saved and you just got saved, well, cinch up your belt and get to cracking. You know, you've got to study, man.

See, that's manually masculine. Got to get to cracking. How about this, Steve? I read where discipleship is a top priority for God, and it is a top priority for Satan.

Satan loves to make disciples, and he is a good discipler. Well, I think— That's kind of scary.

Yeah, what I mean, would he love to see people grow in ungodliness and in sin? Absolutely. I think that's why we have

Hollywood. And West Hollywood. That's right.

Well, today we're talking about discipleship. We might have to do another show on discipleship. What I like about discipleship in particular is it helps men not only learn, but then learn to serve instead of seeing the church as, well, what can it do for me?

Steve, tell us a little bit in the last two minutes how you tell the men you're going to learn, but then we want you to take that learning that you've digested mentally and then flesh it out in the local church through service.

Well, I think, you know, the more you know, the more not only of an obligation you have, but I mean, a more of a sense of confidence that you have,

I mean, to use a bit of a human term. But if you're confident in Scripture and if you know what

God's call is for men to serve in the church, then you are more bound and determined than ever.

If you know what Christ has done for you, then you don't serve out of some, I'll use the word again, obligation.

You serve out of joy and you can't believe that you get to serve. You want to be involved in teaching.

You think, you know what, I know that there are a group of men that I can teach, you know, to learn what

I've learned, or I know that I can serve in Sunday school and teaching kids because I've got a pretty good grasp on Scripture and I'm excited about it.

I'm excited about what Jesus has done in my life. You know, I'm so excited about Scripture that I want to just,

I want to pick up the sanctuary afterwards. I just want to serve. I want to help this church. I want to do all that I can to see the word of God take root in the lives of other people, just as it has in my own life.

Why don't we start asking churches instead of how many people show up on a Sunday morning for attendance, what percentage of your church is in discipleship?

That would be a great question because I think the numbers would be, you know, well, we run about 600.

How many disciples? What's a disciple? What you're running. I think we've got about 12 of those, you know, people actually want to learn.

Today on No Compromise Radio, we've talked about learning, discipleship, taking the baton from someone who is older in the faith than you and then running with it.

And then while you're running, depositing your soul and your life and your experiences and your theology into the heart of another person through the

Spirit of God. It's so important. This is the key that we're here for, to do this. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.