Don't Quote Me, Bro!

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:18

Well, it is a pleasure to be with you this still morning, I guess. It's unusual to do debates in the morning, but I commend all of you for being here this morning for an exceptionally important discussion on the subject of Jesus and whether he was cut from the mythological cloth of other religions or, as Christians have believed, whether Jesus is in fact unique as the

00:40

Son of God. Now, in my opening, I can only respond to what

00:45

Dan himself has published before. I found it fascinating that almost none of the sources that Dan just used, he used in his book,

00:53

Godless. So in this first, I'll be responding to his published work, then the remodel will go to what he has presented this morning.

00:59

Can I make a point of order here, Robert? We're not debating my book, we're debating our topic. I may have changed my mind in the book.

01:06

I may not have thought it was important, so we are not debating my book. Can I respond to that? When you're in a scholarly debate and you've published a book, what you've published in the public realm is fair game.

01:18

It is what you yourself have presented. Now, if you want to say, after I'm done here, I repudiate the book that's for sale in the back, that would be fine.

01:28

But as a scholar... I don't see anything wrong with quoting your book,

01:34

Dr. Barker, or Mr. Barker. Do you have an objection to him quoting it? I object because we're not debating my book today.

01:39

We're debating... Mr. Barker, I have never engaged anyone in a debate who objected to their own published materials being what was cited.

01:50

I would love if people would quote my books in my debates because that's what I have presented to people.

01:56

I cannot believe that there would ever be an objection to my citation of your own book.

02:02

I can't imagine... Did you address this subject in your book? Is there not an entire section on this subject?

02:08

Yes, but you ought to know that I may have changed my mind in the meantime on that, so it's unfair. I may have changed my mind about Mithra, for example.

02:16

Is your book for sale in the back? Yes, it is, but we're not debating my book tonight. How can we have a debate?

02:22

Let's debate the issues. Let's not debate my book. Let's debate the issues. Mr. Barker, I have, on the screen, quotations from you.

02:31

I'm going to be dealing with the sources that you use and the arguments that you've used. That is the form of scholarly debate.

02:37

I cannot believe there's an objection. I'm sorry, but we are not debating my book tonight, and I think he's out of line. And for the record,

02:43

I think it's inappropriate. I didn't quote anything you wrote. That's the point. That's the problem.

02:48

We need to deal with what someone has actually put into the public realm. Your book is for sale.

02:54

I cannot believe on any possible academic or scholarly level. I have done more debates than you have done.

03:01

This is the first time anyone has ever objected to the citation of their own published material, which is still in print.

03:07

If you had pulled it out and repudiated it, that would be one thing. Are you going to do that? The moderator has already spoken.

03:13

I think it's reasonable, then, to use a source that is available on the topic.

03:20

Is it in your mind? Is there something out there, whether it's of quality or not? This is a presentation that I have put together, and Dan has given his objection to quoting him.

03:33

I'm sorry, but I do not see how you can have a meaningful dialogue on this subject if what the person himself has put into the public realm is not available.

03:43

I would just like to say, before I begin my time again and my presentation, that I would be honored if people would quote my books, especially when

03:53

I address the specific topic of the debate. That shows that you have done your homework in listening to what the other person has to say.

04:01

If I put something in print, if I change my mind, I'm going to let people know, and I'm going to pull it out of print.

04:07

I think that's just simply the way it needs to go. Can I make my presentation now? Okay, thank you very much.

04:14

All right, we continue on. Dan has written in his book,

04:19

Godless, which is available in the back, so you can check the references. I am now convinced that the Jesus story is a combination of myth and legend, mixed with a little bit of real history unrelated to Jesus.

04:31

And he presented four arguments in his book on this foundation. He said that there is no external historical confirmation for the

04:39

New Testament stories. Secondly, that the New Testament stories are in turn... The New Testament stories are in turn...