How Should Christians Approach Halloween?

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00:01

We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. It's been a while since I've done a live stream and Looks like I'm already having trouble on rumble.

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It's not going to rumble. So sorry for those waiting on rumble I will upload it to rumble later, but we're live on Twitter on YouTube and on Facebook and It is good to see everyone in the chat the people who are coming on already and And Yeah, there's there's a lot to talk about out there right now

00:30

I know the Southern Baptist Convention is having its own drama right now, which later in the week

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I do plan to talk about if time allows If not this week, I'm sure it'll come up next week

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Also, I've had a number of conversations just to let everyone know with people from inside crew the formerly campus crusade the

00:53

Organization mostly known for college ministry, but of course they have a number of different Ministry organizations within their organization, so there there's a lot going on and I noticed last week there was a lot of people were actually asking me about Robert E Lee because I've talked about Robert E Lee before and there was a lot going on with a

01:16

I Guess it was the Charlottesville statue Which I've actually I have a picture of myself in front of it right before it was removed.

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They melted it down and Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on a lot of things but I Wanted to just kind of ease back into things a little bit here and talk about something

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Historical hopefully helpful for you regarding the day today is the 31st of October it's known as Halloween nationally, even internationally and I I just thought that would be a more helpful thing to talk about even though I do realize many of you want me to weigh in on some of the recent controversies and if there are people in the chat and people

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Who I know we have a few patrons who have some comments to make later on in the podcast If they want to bring up something else,

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I have no problem talking about something else But today is gonna be about Halloween primarily. So With that I just wanted to start off by thanking everyone for your prayers your support

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I've gotten some just very kind letters and messages from many in the audience regarding Just the trials that my family has been going through and and and it really has been a trying season.

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I I think this is one of the saddest things if not the saddest thing I've ever lived through specifically

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My mother -in -law is passing. She was only 56 and so it was a little bit of a shock and And of course

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I've just been spending a lot of my time comforting my wife and and the family lives Thank goodness.

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We lived in Virginia for years and we thought about even staying there indefinitely and we moved back up two years ago and Part of the reason was family there were there were some other reasons as well we decided to do that and I'm just so thankful we did now her family's about an hour away and The ones that were out of state flew in and so we're able to see them so I was driving last week just about every day out to where they live and That's it's part of the healing process to be with family people who knew her mother well and We had a

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I think a god -glorifying funeral and I got to share and It was it was the weather was amazing, too

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I have to say I think the Lord was gracious to us because especially in the Catskill Mountains in late

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October some of our worst blizzards are at that time and We had a day that was

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I think it was around 70 degrees it was sunny It rained very briefly and then dried right up it was it was a pristine beautiful day one of the most beautiful days of the year with the fall foliage and those of you who follow me on Social media.

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I think I posted it on Instagram now, maybe I didn't I'm barely post on Instagram I might have but at very least

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Facebook and I think I posted it on Twitter You can see some of that beauty because I took a a bike ride of the day before I was just so exhausted from everything the last two weeks and one of the ways

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I relax is I will take a bike ride or I'll go hunting or something and And so I took a bike ride and it was just so beautiful when the leaves start changing

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So anyway, we thank God for that and I thank you for all your thoughts And your prayers and you're encouraging messages

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I know many of you have gone through similar situations and it's always helpful to hear from people like that because you know exactly what it's like and Even if you don't though, it's still encouraging

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Speaking of hunting I should I was actually just outside before the podcast. I'll just say this briefly for those who appreciate the personal asides

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For the first time I've ever seen this living where I live. I live in Highland which is it's it's not in the

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Catskills. I'm close enough to the Catskills. I can actually take bike rides there You know, I'll go. Yeah, I don't know 35 miles or so and maybe

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I'm at the base of them or something but Where I live we haven't had issues with bears.

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They come down from the mountains occasionally. Well last night I With everything else going on right some of you know,

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I've just had a bunch of stuff Fire not fire ants Carpenter ants ate out half my closet and as we're grieving

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I'm trying to do drywall and get that all in place and Around midnight I hear something outside and So I I look

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I have a little security camera. I turned it on and sure enough There's a black bear and it wasn't even a small one. It was a big black bear.

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I would say medium -large so I don't even know what the pound like like how many pounds that would be but but I've seen other bears in the mountains and this was on the bigger end and It's in my trash can

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And I I go outside and I try to scare it away and it's just waiting for me it runs about maybe 25 30 feet and it just stops and it sits there and and it waits for me and And I'm I'm just like it's like a standoff, right?

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It's like a Mexican standoff and I'm waiting to see where it's gonna go and I thought it had left and so I pick Up all the trash and sure enough

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I get out there this morning. Nope. It didn't leave it came back out and And went through my garbage so we're gonna have to double -bag things.

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But anyway, it is bear season I just live too close to neighbors to to take advantage of that legally

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Not that anyone wanted to know that necessarily but I figured some of you might find that interesting and it was a new experience for Me I haven't had that before So anyway, lots of encouraging things.

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Thank you. Everyone who's in the chat right now saying encouraging things Someone asked

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I'll answer this before we get into the Halloween stuff John how did you and your wife meet man?

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That is a long question It takes me sometimes like 40 minutes to tell that story

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But I'll give you like the 32nd version. We actually met at a college career group between our homes

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Probably well now I guess it would have been over eight years ago. I was On my

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I was actually going to seminary in North Carolina and I met her right before I left for seminary and so it was a long -distance relationship for a little bit, but then but then

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I moved back up and we got married and We were here for a year and then

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I went back down And with her with me and we completed it So my seminary career is kind of broken up because of that But we yeah, we met at a college career group, but there's some very interesting things

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Hopefully at some point I can share on the podcast regarding that but but that's the long and short of it. Okay let's let's start off with the

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Halloween stuff and then I'll take some questions and Comments and we'll go from there.

08:17

I want to read for you. This is a Don't know if I can pull it up. Let me see if I can pull it up.

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I Have an article it's not posted yet. So you're getting the preview here on truth script

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In fact, it hasn't even been edited for grammar and all of that. So hopefully my grammar is okay on this

08:38

See here, I should be able to pull it up for you.

08:44

Yeah, I can okay. There it is You can't really see that though. Can you so I'll just show my face

08:49

I guess and read it to you so it's an article for truth script and yesterday

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I Had to do a bunch of stuff outside and as I was working outside. I listened on audible to some books

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I listened to Funny enough. I've never read the legend of Sleepy Hollow. I've seen renditions of it and I live not far from Sleepy Hollow In fact up the road for me is something called the

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Headless Horseman, which is apparently internationally acclaimed people come from all over the world and they know about it in England and it's a

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I guess a scare park. I don't even know if you want to call it a park it I think would belong to some farmers, but they converted it at least this time of year into a

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Halloween kind of celebration where they have Like a maze you go through and people scare you and it's ghoulish and there's magicians and there's all kinds of things as a kid, apparently my wife had gone to that and She told me this is

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I guess interesting. She said that It's not you know There are things that are just kind of your standard run -of -the -mill

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Innocent kind of fun things that are associated with Halloween, but they had a magician there who was doing

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Who was praying to something or someone before? doing his tricks and some of them were pretty crazy like levitation and things like that and and it just gave her this a

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Creepy feeling and they never went back and and that's the reason I'll never go to something like that I just I just don't want to be associated with that.

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I I actually grew up Not I don't think we ever celebrated Halloween.

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We had costume parties and harvest parties and The church did some like reverse trick -or -treating where you would go and you would try to give things to the people

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That you're I don't know if that went so well because the standard is people are giving you candy You're trying to give them tracks or whatever.

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We were giving them I was a little older when that happened But we never like called it

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Halloween and celebrated Halloween but we did funny enough a lot of the Halloween like that standard

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Halloween things like eating sloppy joes and pumpkin carving and We ate candy we dressed up in costumes and we had a good time and it's

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It's interesting because as I think back I think about like like people ask

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Christians who didn't celebrate Halloween Do you think you missed out? And the thing is like I don't really think I did.

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I think like I Actually did most if not all the things that a kid would consider

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Exciting on Halloween. We didn't really go trick -or -treating But part of that was there was a big scare at the time and it's still out there to some extent

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But people putting like razor blades and candy or poisoning candy And so I think that was more of my parents concern but of course

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They didn't want to be associated with the pagan aspects of the holiday. And I think that was wise

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I think the way I brought up makes a lot of sense but not everyone comes to the same conclusion on this and I think it's helpful to Maybe review some of the the history of the holiday how we got to the point we're at today and then how should

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Christians? Think about that. So that's what's on the menu today. I'm gonna read for you this essay And then we're going to get to that and for those

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We're waiting to come on in the chat give me about 10 minutes and I will go through some of this and I'll stop halfway and we'll

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And we can ask I can answer questions or receive some comments anything anyone has.

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So here's how the essay starts It says from I said for many Christians, especially those with children navigating Halloween can be awkward

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There are many opinions on what constitutes an appropriate level of participation Some believers think any involvement is sinful while others believe the holiday is harmless in its commercialized form

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Many churches sponsor creative alternatives such as trunk or treat or reverse trick -or -treat

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Children can dress up as their favorite Bible characters and use the event as an evangelistic endeavor.

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But what's the right approach? So when I was in Virginia a few years ago

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I remember that was a big thing down there and and it was not anything like the celebrations

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I saw in New York I mean in New York people decorate their lawn. It's ghoulish It's more focused on the the magic and the witchcraft and the darkness of the whole thing

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And then of course in Virginia, it was more the innocent kind of 1950s Halloween.

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I mean there was like one Yard, I can think of where they made it ghoulish everything else was just pretty standard

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Costumes and that kind of thing and churches did trunk or treats and I never went to one I just I had friends that did though where Where you could take your kids and you could bring them to the church where it was safe to get candy or whatever

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You know, they were giving out and you would you would go to like different different spots.

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So it was kind of like a safe Trigger treat kind of environment that says at least as I remember it being practiced

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We had at the church. I attended a good friend of mine actually put on a

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Reformation Fair and I was I dressed up as John Knox and I had to I learned everything

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I could about John Knox I had a Scottish accent and then kids would come in and was like a little festival

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They would go to different like they would play games and get candy at different booths and they would learn about different reformers

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So you had someone dressed up as Martin Luther and John Calvin and all that kind of thing So we did the

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Reformation Day kind of alternative, but that was something I don't know if Other people grew up with that.

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I mean to me that was something that kind of came with the Resurgence of reform theology

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Maybe 15 years ago you started hearing about that But before that it was like harvest parties or trunk or treats or that kind of thing so anyway,

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I think it's important to get into the origins of this because this is I think the main dividing line with what

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Christians do with this celebration whether they Abstain completely or whether they and some of them think everyone should abstain and then

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There's others who think it's fine to participate and I think the dividing line a lot of it comes down to What you think the meaning of the holiday is?

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So this is what I write much of the controversy surrounding Halloween stems from assumptions about its pagan origins Many believe a direct line exists between Samhain a

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Druid harvest festival and our modern celebration For over a hundred years sources such as Ruth Edna's Kelly's book of Halloween Trace many of our modern customs such as revering black cats bobbing for apples and jack -o' -lanterns to Druid rituals

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And that's one of the books that I was listening to yesterday. I think it's from like 1911 and she

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Does trace a lot of these things I get the impression from the book that she? participated in some of these things and I'm not necessarily the bobbing for apples and the black cats, but like she says at one point that she's seen

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I think leprechauns and Like different magical characters from Celtic pagan

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Understandings so I get the impression She is advocating it. I don't know to what extent it's a scholarly study

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Some of the things I've looked at since then Because I went online and I just wanted to see like how accurate her book was

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Seemed to indicate that she had was relying on some inaccurate sources for some of this But but some of what she says is likely true.

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There was a holiday Samhain and There are some customs that we that have made their way from that holiday at least appears that way

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To Halloween you could say the same thing with other holidays though. That's the thing It's like not unique to Halloween Even Christmas has certain

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Elements to it and our modern commercialized form that can be traced in some ways to paganism, but they've been appropriated for Christian symbolism

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So not everything of course, but it's a I don't I don't buy this like, you know

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Christianity came in and turned Saturn alia into Christmas I think Christmas is its own thing, but there are other winter holidays and Customs that people had in regions conquered by Christians that got mixed in Is it syncretism that I mean that's part of the question

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I it can become syncretism But if some of these these things have lost their meanings completely and or they're they're reframed completely in Christian terms not necessarily the

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Christmas tree actually may be one of those things and there are many Christians who reject the Christmas tree because they do think that it is tied to Worship of Odin and those kinds of things

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Understand that and I respect people who have that that belief. I don't believe that myself.

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I have a Christmas tree I celebrate it. I we have an angel at the top of ours

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Actually, no, we have a star at the top of ours growing up It was an angel and now that I married it's a star But but the significance of it is this is the star that the wise men followed, right?

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So I don't even think about it in those pagan terms at all But but I mean I digress because we're talking about Halloween not

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Christmas And and of course some of these things I mentioned like black cats I mean there's just superstition around black cats like if it's they do certain things that they cross you or if they lie down and look at You and and whatever they do like it as they interact with you.

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It means something about your future Jack -o' -lanterns, of course, there's a

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Celtic and I think it's actually this doesn't go back to the Druid The ancient

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Druid times this is more of a modern or I should say medieval thing, I believe but the jack -o' -lantern

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So you couldn't go to heaven that do have

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Claims Kelly who wrote ensure protect if you want to call them that but out and and you know in there a lot of level of success and well is about Dead and the living the world that can then give you guidance in your physical world.

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So That's today's Halloween, but that developed over time however,

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Ireland converted to Catholicism Bonfires did not include human sacrifices and instead commemorated

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All Saints Day and All Souls Day where they signified the light souls Followed to paradise.

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So the Catholic Church had they had Halloween They had All Souls Day and they'd all are

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All Saints Day and then All Souls Day these are it was a three -part celebration three days and It was all about commemorating martyrs commemorating

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Christians from the past who have since died a memorial service really Christians opposed

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Halloween opposed to Halloween view this Christian ization as a foolish attempt to mix Christian and pagan practices

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Well, there may be some truth to this narrative. It does tend to oversimplify centuries of development though Many of the traditions associated with Halloween are uniquely connected to Christendom the term

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Halloween itself all hallows Eve Communicates Christian assumptions concerning death.

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It's a holy evening set apart The the sharing of soul cakes

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They're called to commemorate Christians who passed away is as likely a story as any for the origin of trick -or -treating so Christians would

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Would share baked goods, but they were in memory of people who had died Many of the images and sounds we associate with Halloween such as graveyards and church bells did not exist in a pagan context

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In fact church bells in most of the Halloween music you hear even the spooky Advertisements it all has these bells that likely traces back to the celebrations the

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Christian celebrations surrounding this where They would ring bells for those who had passed away and so It's a commemoration.

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It's a memorial. But of course all of this is now mixed in Robert Davis from the University of Glasgow Believes that almost every feature of the pagan explanation of Halloween evaporates in the face of detailed inspection

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The Sam Haines celebration contained neither veneration of the dead nor supernatural activity linked to the temporary proximity of the other world

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Nor other features intrinsic to the holiday In other words, there are many experts out there today not even

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Christians necessarily But just historians who say it's the other way around. It's not that the Christians Christianized Sam Hain It's actually that the

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Christians were the ones who first came up with Halloween all Hallows Eve And then it was pagans who have then appropriated it by mixing in similar pagan festivals like Sam Hain that were that existed around the same period of time and Connecting them

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In some way and so there's there's a paganization going on not not necessarily a Christianization.

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That's an interesting thought I didn't know about that until very recently but it looks like the more serious historians actually who have really looked into this believe that that's the case and that the sources that pagan pro -pagan

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People are relying on to show that Halloween was Christianized. It was originally pagan. They're actually relying on Really scant evidence.

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They don't really have it. It's it's a lot of assumptions It's there's a particular gentleman

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I can't remember his name in the 17th or the 18th century who I guess a lot of this stems from and he wrote down history of the

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Celtic peoples and it was Ireland specifically and most of it was was his opinion

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It was assumptions and they're relying on that. They're relying on source They're not they in other words, they don't have primary sources for a lot of this stuff

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And not a lot was written down. We don't have an extensive record of these things We don't know a lot about the

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Druid The the Druids and what they did Really passed, you know is the

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Middle Ages really when we start even seeing sources when others come in and start Start studying them.

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So so a lot of this is speculation I'm gonna stop there and before we get into the modern celebration and just take some questions

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Well, I noticed there there when I started there I there were two patrons and they're since gone and I'm sorry if I went on for too long

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I may maybe scared them away But if they're listening still if you're a patron feel free to jump on and we can talk about this stuff

24:59

Yeah, and Anita Smith says Guy Fawkes bonfire night. That's absolutely true The Guy Fawkes celebration in England is probably more the source of the bonfire stuff today it's probably not as much the

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Now you could say that maybe they got it from more Pagan pagan sources, but the

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Guy Fawkes celebration is a Protestant celebration Robert Sparkman says

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I think Jacob Grimm and Alexander Hislop were the two that spread a lot of that history could be could be I Don't remember.

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I don't remember seeing those names, but it could be Yesterday Kathy Hart says it just hit me as we gathered some

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German foods to celebrate Reformation Day today that this is a holiday That I am thankful to celebrate especially now that we are reformed and and that I do like I mean

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Even if you do something for Halloween, I do think Reformation Day is worth Celebrating and and it's bigger in some homes than in others and some churches and others

25:59

Someone says the live stream is having issues if that if any of you are seeing that please let me know I don't see anyone else saying that.

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Oh, so Anita Smith says it started getting choppy. So I don't know What's going on there?

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That's okay Well, hopefully this is recorded and I can re -upload it if we have some problems with it.

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Sorry about that guys We're gonna keep going here. And if anyone has questions, feel free to put them in the chat and we're gonna talk about the modern celebration of Halloween Halloween was not widely celebrated in America until the 19th century when waves of immigrants of Celtic descent came to the

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United States Though it did appear on some church calendars in the southern states before this.

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It was not anything like it is today The Puritans of New England completely rejected the holiday as they did

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Easter Christmas and New Year's Celebrations with their ties to paganism Catholicism and purportedly sinful customs such as dancing and plays

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They inspired much of the Protestant resistance to these holidays in modern times and I do think that is as you see the resurgence of reformed theology you gotta understand most of this was a resurgence of Puritanism and to some extent

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Hyperion ism That's what I've seen at least mostly the Puritanism in the reformed world today

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Which many of you listening are impacted by and thank God I'm impacted by it, too I mean as this was a resurgence of the the tulip and even the the five solas

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But it was very much a Protestant version of area I should say a Puritan version of those things and and you

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I don't think it's a coincidence You notice that Christians more and more Christians taking stands against Halloween and Christmas and substituting things like like a

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Reformation festival of some kind which isn't wrong, but I I do think that that is probably part of the reason for it

27:57

The Christmas stuff I should say I should clarify. It's not that they don't celebrate it

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They just don't take part in well, some don't some don't celebrate it Some just don't take part in what they consider pagan aspects of it

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So this was this was a unique to New England. This was kind of honestly It's kind of an unusual thing at least when it comes to Christmas to not celebrate these things in the south you did have more of that and It's ironic because today the

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Northeast with its lore of witches and ghosts such as in Salem, Massachusetts or Sleepy Hollow New York is in Internationally recognized as a place that takes the holiday more seriously than other regions

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In other words, if you want to celebrate a real authentic Halloween you go to the Northeast you go to Salem I went to Salem years ago not for Halloween, but I I didn't go to that.

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There's a big witch Pro witch presence. I mean this is where the Salem witch trials happen And so but it's become kind of like a mecca for people who are interested in witchcraft.

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That's where they go and The area I live in right now, so that's Hudson Valley is just like that Lots of witch stuff.

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I mean, I've talked about it before in the podcast that I was even surprised in the last few years There's been such an increase in which shops and which books and books on spells and crystals and and all of these things and it's it's obvious to me that we live in a post -christian era, but secularism was not a viable option for spiritual beings because people are spiritual beings and they it's a it

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It only worked as a transition from Christianity to the paganism. That's re -emerging a Lot of it's new it's not even it doesn't have like big connections to what they think it does like Druids.

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It's it's modern modern inventions, but But that's what's what's happening.

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And that's where people come to celebrate Halloween in its most ghoulish and spiritual form Now my own experience living in North Carolina and Virginia Around this time of year is that New York takes this much more seriously, but it's picking up steam around the entire country well, just check this out from 2005 to 2023

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Americans increased their Halloween spending fourfold it was It was

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I believe around three billion in 2005. It is over 12 billion today It's not a long period of time.

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I mean that's in my lifetime and it has become such a bigger holiday than it used to be and The holidays changing as well, whether the innocent costumes of parties for children or morbid spectacles for adults

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The commercialized American Halloween phenomenon is a recent development that includes aspects from previous harvest pagan and Christian Celebrations mixed with elements from Victorian literature and modern film

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So you have things like Frankenstein and Dracula and all these scary monster stuff also coming in slasher movies

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That are becoming part of the Halloween lore what the baby boom generation considered a traditional celebration of cowboys princesses and candy corn is increasingly focused on which is magic and alcohol

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Now I'm gonna address the freedom in Christ issue in a moment before I get there I want to go to Kim Murphy who is

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Waiting there to make a comment or ask a question. If you turn your mic off Kim, I'll come to you

31:16

So I'll give you a minute to do that, but I want to share with you a sponsor for this podcast as well and That I thought

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I don't usually like coffee and I don't drink coffee. I'm a tea guy more so My wife actually started making chai lattes every now and then

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I think those are good but But Apple cider this time of year, maybe some mint hot chocolate But I've never been a big coffee guy and my wife though.

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I mean she needs it to survive Anyone else like that you get up in the morning and you need it It's just it's how you you wake up and all of that.

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Okay. Well with that said I'm gonna go to Kim Murphy Kim. Can you hear me? I can can you hear me?

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I can yeah go for it So I was really excited to see you back on YouTube.

34:00

I've missed you been praying for you. Of course. Thank you But this has been such a controversial topic in my life.

34:08

I did not grow up in a Christian home I grew up in New York. I grew up on Long Island did not grow up in a Christian home

34:13

But I would say our celebration of Halloween was pretty innocent The Lord saved my husband and I when our son our oldest was a year old and so we've done different things over the years but I guess what was most shocking to me and we lived in Virginia when we had our first two children and Seem things did seem more innocent there and it was not a controversy or even discussed in our reform

34:40

Presbyterian Church just wasn't even a topic, but then we moved to New York in 2002 had one more child and so I don't believe that third child ever participated in Halloween But it was really pressure -filled.

34:55

We lived in a neighborhood and one thing I am super thankful for that. I do want to kind of caution parents with young children

35:03

Is my girls especially who are the youngest they were? Frightened by Halloween and they were frightened by the decor even in some restaurants

35:15

Long about I'd say 2008 2009 we really had to stop going out to restaurants at all in October in the

35:23

Hudson Valley We lived in in the Hyde Park area Because it was just too scary

35:30

For my little girls and I am thankful. I am thankful that their consciences were formed that way and we encouraged that So we did not participate in Halloween at all

35:42

We were the people that went somewhere else went to a friend's house that lived in the country because we lived in a neighborhood

35:50

Now here I am 26 years later as a believer and I live in a neighborhood in in the city actually of Utica and I've been really convicted by The world is coming to my door yeah, whereas in the past I would have had my light off and We'd go hang out with friends somewhere

36:13

So last year I was very thankful to see and this is my real point and I know it's a little bit last minute but lamplighter ministries

36:22

Is giving away a free download of one of their audio dramas It's called the haunted room.

36:29

It has a fabulous gospel message as all of lamplighter ministry

36:34

Audio dramas do and you can print off postcards or you can just print it off on paper

36:40

Whatever you want to do. It has a QR code, but they've made postcards for people So if you go to lamplighter net you can find those you can print them off and I will be giving those out

36:52

Tonight along with some candy. That's great. I don't say happy Halloween I really try not to give any lip service to any of that But I'm also my children are grown.

37:05

Nobody's you know, my little children are not here I don't know that I'd participate with little children.

37:10

It's a very interesting topic Yeah, so you did substitutions. I'm assuming like harvest parties things like that We did some you know what some of my friends and you would know you would know many of them probably yeah

37:24

Community in the Hudson Valley some people really we got into discussions where even that Was kind of giving in to the world.

37:33

So we really just we had plenty of people You know the area that lived in a country where nobody's gonna come trick -or -treating at your door

37:42

And we'd really just have our own fun night We would just gather with a couple of other Christian homeschooling families.

37:49

We'd order pizza. We bought our kids candy I Really never did my kids are a little bit older than the trunk -or -treat

37:58

Kind of phase so we never did that but it's so interesting alive and well in Virginia when

38:04

I was down there I mean I had never heard of it until I think I went down there and a bunch of churches were doing it.

38:10

So It was up here in Central, New York Non -churches do it just all interesting groups and you know,

38:20

I I don't know but I see lots of Advertisements for trunk -or -treats, but people will you know, they call go all out decorating their trunks, but they're evil decorations and frightening decorations

38:34

So yeah, I don't know I'm really conflicted. Believe me a good part of me wants to turn out my front porch light and Like go watch a movie in my bedroom on the laptop with my husband and you know, just pretend it doesn't exist

38:50

But then I have read from solid Believers, I have read things about the world is coming to your door

38:58

Don't don't waste this opportunity and we really we live in the city. So yeah,

39:03

I will have a hundred I will probably have a hundred kids. I had about 85 I think

39:08

I ran out of bags of postcards last year, but I am excited about giving out the lamplighter download

39:14

I have no idea how many children actually listen to it, but I try to play it up when they come up to my porch

39:21

So, yeah, they're great. I Hear them on Redeemer broadcasting sometimes Yeah, but it's always good to hear from you

39:30

Kim and especially from a local In fact, it's funny you you mentioned, you know, you're in a Hyde Park. We have a family in our church

39:37

You probably know them. I won't mention them on air, but they're in Hyde Park and I Know my parents are going there and I think a number of other people from the church because they have such a huge Massive volume of people that come to their door and they're gonna all help give out

39:53

I guess gospel tracks along with the candy and In my area,

39:59

I just don't have to deal with any of that because no one comes to my door ever Bears come to my door not right

40:06

So we lived in clean corners in northern Dutchess County for the last 13 years before we moved to central

40:12

New York and same It was a country road. Nobody came by so that's why we could we could hang out with our friends

40:19

But I will say I loved the I forget who you were talking about. Oh, no It was when you dressed up as John Knox.

40:25

I love for Reformation. Yeah. Yeah I think that is a fabulous idea

40:30

Of course, it's come across my mind before but I never really thought hard about how to do it but different booths

40:38

Celebrating or informing kids. It was whatever I Go to a reform

40:43

Baptist Church here, and I bet if we pitch that idea people would be all over that Oh, I'm sure they would in fact

40:50

I'm looking for the photo and I can't find it right now of me dressed up as John Knox with my wife my wife was a

40:57

Trying to remember she was in the Martin Luther Booth. They didn't let let her come to my booth. It's kind of yeah I know right

41:03

She but she was dressed up. I think as Martin Luther's wife or something. So So so it was it was just fascinating to watch that it was very successful I mean kids came from all over and they had just as much fun because they're playing different You know, yeah, like pin the tail on the donkey becomes pin the theses on the door, you know things like that So I'm very creative I can organize and I can get people to to participate but I can't think of the things if I had somebody else who could be creative and think of the things to do or for That matter if your former church would just tell us what they did we do it.

41:44

Well, I tell you what it's I don't think They do it anymore. It was a close friend of mine who did it and he ran the whole thing

41:51

I think he did it for two years and I I'm sure that he would be happy because he loves the

41:57

Reformation to Talk to anyone and give them the ideas he had So if anyone reaches out to me,

42:03

I will give you his email privately and you can hear from him How he set it up.

42:09

He did a great job. So I'll send that to you Kim I would love to have that that would be great I'm sure and and I can say, you know, like you said you didn't miss you didn't feel like you missed out

42:19

My children are 20 22 and 26 today and they are perfectly fine and happy they definitely

42:27

Plenty of candy in their life. They play dress -up all the time. So Not a problem.

42:33

Well, we didn't believe in Santa Claus either and I don't feel like I missed out on Christmas, you know Anyway, well, god bless

42:39

Kim. Thank you so much. Good to hear You too All right.

42:45

Well We're gonna talk a little bit about I'm gonna finish the essay here What Christians are to do and we just obviously touched on it a little bit one option at least throw a

42:55

Reformation Day fair But I don't know if that's the only option I think there's a range of options depending on where you live and how this holiday is celebrated

43:05

So the all -or -nothing approaches to Halloween, I think are easy Permitting full participation or banning all involvement does not require someone to think through the holiday how it's perceived in your region how

43:17

Christians can use it as an opportunity for good because You're just saying we're not gonna have anything to do with it or and and that's actually a perfectly fine conviction if you think through it, but There there are my fear is that some

43:31

Christians go either direction and they don't think through it at all It's just we can either do it it's fine or we can't do it because it's evil and there's really not a lot of Discussion.

43:42

It's just passing on the traditions that maybe they were born with or born into and I think it's different.

43:51

I know Kim just mentioned this and It's probably even since she moved gotten worse in the area.

43:56

I live in in New York. There's witch shops. There's spell books Those are common sights and Christians.

44:02

I think need to be careful with community holiday celebrations in a context like this, especially because it is not the same as Virginia or and I shouldn't say

44:12

Virginia because parts of Virginia are probably just like that But in you know, like Lynchburg, Virginia, Western, Virginia in an

44:19

Appalachian Region, I don't think it's gonna be quite the same and so maybe you can participate in a community event in one of those areas

44:27

But but here it's a little different And so I mentioned earlier that many members of my own church stay home

44:33

They hand out tracks with their candy to trigger treaters. That's the way they participate and that's it there are other

44:40

Places where Halloween is not as attached to paganism and it may be possible for Christians I think in those situations to go to community events, which are not much more than harvest parties with costumes

44:50

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that inately, right? And there are a variety of ways to celebrate the day in a range of ways

44:58

I think to be involved so of course if someone's conscience does not allow them to participate in any way

45:03

It is better to forego the celebration altogether since whatever is not a faith is sinful and Christians who have this conviction should be careful

45:10

They do not bind the consciences of others though other believers who do not share the same conviction.

45:16

So You think of the meat sacrifice to idol issue and how? the

45:21

Christians who Participated in that we're not directly participating in the sacrifice

45:27

They were benefiting though from the meat because then there was nothing evil about the meat And so if there are specific things that are at the

45:35

Bible forbids you cannot participate in them There are some Christians who have the conviction that I can't this is a tangential connection of some kind or there

45:43

I'm not directly connected. I'm not directly in sin, but it's too close you perhaps people who grew up with it and They just the association is too strong in their minds and they can't do it.

45:55

Well, they shouldn't do it But they shouldn't then tell other Christians. Well, you can't do it either. You can't go dress up You can't

46:02

Bob for apples or whatever it is because I have this conviction so It is important I think at this juncture to remember that while Christians were permitted to eat meat sacrifice to idols they were not allowed to directly participate in the sacrificing and any celebration that includes seances or Ouija boards or drugs or other sinful activities are

46:21

Certainly off -limits as our celebrations that glorify evil And I think that last part is where a lot of this is going and a lot of Christians I think

46:30

Kim included in this feel like man. I don't know if I can participate. It's so ghoulish the it's not even cartoon skeletons anymore

46:37

It's like bloody Depictions that are just they scared the little little kids.

46:44

They scare adults sometimes I mean, they're they're just as grotesque as can be and that's now becoming common fair.

46:50

And so You know, even if you go to like a celebration Let's say a community celebration where they have all kinds of different Halloween Themed things there and they're innocent.

47:01

You're still gonna see some of that stuff And so, you know that just takes I think some discernment and some just wisdom to see what's going

47:09

What does it look like in your community? Is that the way the Halloween is celebrated and if so, maybe that's not something to be involved with as much

47:18

So Halloween presents Christians with choices and opportunities and levels our participation that will likely look different in different homes towns and churches in Places where the

47:28

Christian population is small other community organizations will likely control the nature of public festival festivities

47:33

But in areas where there is a strong Christian presence There are other options and this is what I want to get across a little bit and maybe get people's wheels turning for next year

47:42

Chris and band together to restore aspects of all all Hollowtide, which is the three -day celebration

47:49

You've Halloween you have all Saints Day you've all Souls Day They can they can make a return to that if they want to They can also if they if they don't want to do that.

47:59

They can emphasize Reformation Day as an alternative if they prefer If as many historians believe

48:04

Halloween was a Christian holiday hijacked by pagans There is no reason Christians cannot reclaim the day for their own purposes

48:11

And perhaps some of the commercialized American staples such as costumes and candy can be mixed in with that But whatever approach

48:17

Christians take there are many options approaching the holiday for approaching a holiday with confidence and conviction

48:25

So that's the article that I wrote about Halloween. That's my At least the way that I approach

48:33

This holiday. I think that there are multiple ways to approach it in good conscience and I think

48:39

Christians Need to exercise discernment. And so for some it may be not participating at all for others

48:46

It may be just using it as evangelistic opportunity for others. It may be Having an alternative and for others it may be

48:53

It's innocent enough. We can participate in the innocent side of this holiday and maybe even

49:00

Harken back to the Christian roots of the holiday without participating in the pagan stuff.

49:06

So that's where I land on it and that article should come out later today and It's not posted on the truth script website right this second, but it will be later today right now.

49:17

We have a Reformation Day Article I encourage you to check out and I should say this too I meant to say this a while ago in the update that I gave last week or two weeks ago

49:27

A truth script really is The continuation in many ways of what

49:34

I've been trying to do on the podcast. It's the institutionalized more institutionalized form

49:40

More with more cooperation. It's 501 c3 When this podcast ends if it ends what but when at some point it's going to be scaled back more than it is now

49:51

I still think there's some fights out there That I need to participate in and I need to get some books out there at least one

49:58

I think I got I have at least one left in me and so don't don't think I'm going away right this second, but but As I said in the update two weeks ago things may change on this podcast a little bit.

50:10

I may get rid of Twitter I've been thinking about it. I don't know if I can just Stay on there without part.

50:15

The hard part for me is participating in the food fights, you know And if I can have self -control,

50:20

I think it'd be fine But I have a hard time with that. So I you know, whether I get rid of it or not And whether I scale back the podcast or not the

50:30

The theology the truth the mission all of that's gonna go on and truth script is one of those manifestations

50:36

Where you're gonna find solid content not just from me But from others not just articles like I just read to you that I wrote but from other people who have similar beliefs to you and We really want to get something out there that's an alternative to the gospel coalition

50:51

So I just I don't see any of the money personally that comes into the true script website But it all goes to build true script up to make the website better To plan events and we have some events planned for next year and I just want to thank you for those who do contribute to what

51:06

I'm doing, but also see the usefulness in truth script and So I would encourage you to you know, check that out get on the email list

51:13

The articles that come out of a true script are great There I have a couple other things.

51:18

I'm doing too just to give everyone an update I probably later today if not today tomorrow. I am going to start

51:25

The heavy editing process for the 1607 project We have a rough cut and it needs to be scored.

51:31

It needs to a b -roll has to be added But I am starting that and it will be released in February.

51:37

So I have a firm time end of February it'll be public you can watch it and And that's gonna take up a lot of time because I don't usually do all the

51:49

The b -roll and a lot. I'm doing a lot of the heavy editing for this So and I did all the filming this is this is very much something that I've been

51:58

Participating in very directly and so, you know part of your support for what

52:03

I'm doing also goes to stuff like that Which which you'll find out more about next year when it comes out.

52:09

Maybe I'll show you some clips on the podcast But all that said I appreciate everyone's kind words and just It just means a great deal.

52:19

And if there's any questions or comments, I'm just gonna go through those real quick and And and see if I can answer whatever people have out there

52:29

Someone someone asked Matthew Fletcher asked should Christians push the horror of the holiday The Bible in the world are filled with horrors demons and dark forces exist non -believers are going to hell

52:37

How do we enter into this? That's a good question so is there a way to even take the demonic end of it and and I guess

52:46

Recognize it somehow I suppose so it's a the thing is I mean Kim talked about how her kids were scared of these ghoulish depictions and The thing is in the world more and more you can't avoid it

52:57

There was a time I think you could and now in certain areas you can't in my area

53:02

You cannot I can't go into the grocery store and not be greeted with something ghoulish And so what do you do when that happens and I think

53:11

Preparing your kids for that is important teaching them the truth that from the Word of God of what demons are how they deceive how they love death and how they kill kill steal and destroy

53:24

That's why they're evil. We don't celebrate them we But we don't also we do not fear them.

53:31

We fear God We have a healthy respect and that we're not going to be wise towards evil

53:38

We're going to be innocent towards evil and wise towards good But James 4 7 says you submit to God resist the devil he flees and so we know

53:44

That the God we worship is bigger than those things So I think that's the message that kids need to hear this time of year when they're seeing those things and maybe that can create an opening but As far as celebrating them, that's not an option.

53:58

I don't think So, I that's my best attempt at it,

54:03

I don't know if that hits the the question directly, but Stephen Smith says

54:09

Christian churches need to start thinking about funding families in the USA to homeschool instead of sending money overseas to missions We have to care for our own children.

54:16

I mean It depends on the church. You can certainly do both missions are important in fact, I'm kind of overdue that everything that's gone on in my life has kind of prevented me from doing the

54:28

Talking about what's happening in Nigeria But I do think Christians if they can do need to be helping their brothers and sisters in Nigeria But I would agree that those who are close in proximity to you are those who live near you

54:40

Those who are in your families those who are in your communities those who are in your regions Those are connected to you through heritage and through tradition through language those kinds of things

54:49

I mean you have a greater responsibility there. That's the order of Maurice and so It's a difficult thing,

54:57

I mean should churches be doing it if not churches, I think Christians can set up organizations that will help Assist parents with the cost of homeschooling frankly

55:09

We don't have without homeschooling where we don't really I Hesitate to say we don't have a

55:16

Christian Christianity won't be passed down because it will but The rich heritage is conserved in homeschooling now, it's

55:27

It's not even given any thought in public schools by and large. So I Do think that is a viable thing to consider at least

55:38

Sola Solely day of music says what is a holiday? Does it come from Holy Day or is it just an occasion to celebrate sin?

55:45

Christmas and Easter at least have some reference to Christ. I don't see Halloween that way Yeah, I mean that is exactly what holiday means

55:53

Holy Day and I don't know if you were listening for the whole podcast but the term Halloween actually means all

56:00

Hallows Eve Holy Evening and It's it's a Christian. The term is

56:05

Christian itself. It arises from a Christian context. It's not That's why

56:11

Sam Hain is Sam Hain. It's a different. It's actually a different holiday Doesn't mean that some of the traditions and so forth haven't snuck into the

56:20

Halloween but yeah There would have been a time that Halloween was a more

56:26

Christian eyes or at least a Catholic holiday We may decorate

56:33

Kathy Hart says we may have to decorate our yard with Reformation day decor. Someone needs to get on that Let me tell you there is a business opportunity waiting for a

56:41

Christian I don't know if you want to blow up Martin Luther, but something something to decorate for that particular event

56:50

What do you think about hell houses, man? I don't even You got me you got me.

56:55

I'm not even sure what a hell house is. I mean, maybe a scare like a scary Like a fun house, but it's it's supposed to scare you

57:05

I'm guessing that's what it is. If that's the case then I'm not interested in those. I mean

57:10

I I can scare people myself. I don't need to go to a hell house. I can be scared myself

57:19

My impression is that stuff is pretty ghoulish and just dark and Yeah, I did not not something

57:25

I would want to be involved in really but I do understand to some extent people who like the

57:30

Adrenaline pump when they're scared right and doesn't necessarily even have to be something that's grotesque.

57:37

It can just be Someone who startles you Oh Okay, all right

57:45

Christian evangelical to scare kids I got you now, all right, okay, I do know what this is then This is there's a church in the area who did that like a decade ago.

57:55

I remember this They had people came in and they would like play music that sounded like hell and try to scare everyone on Halloween that hell's terrible.

58:05

What do I think about that? I think a lot of that's emotional manipulation I don't like that Now maybe there's someone who's done it, right?

58:15

I don't even know how you could do it right though I mean, it's we're not supposed to be focusing on on Hell to that extent we should be talking about the truth of hell.

58:22

We should be Conveying it accurately, but when you make it

58:28

I'll put it this way when it becomes mixed in with like the slasher movies and the those like other

58:37

Halloween haunted house type Experiences and you're gonna do a Christian eyes form then people come for the adrenaline they come to get scared they come they're not

58:47

The focus isn't Christ and that's my issue with that. So Anyway, yeah, there was

58:53

I do remember a church I could name the church. I'm not gonna I'm gonna be nice today I'm not gonna name the church It was

58:59

Pentecostal though, I remember that and I remember people were scared it's like Like what are you trying to do like, you know, you're

59:08

Teaching these kids to be scared of demons instead of to be scared of the Lord who will punish their sin, right?

59:15

That's this that's the fear of hell. It's that it's not that the demons are there. It's not that You know, it's not the ghoulish stuff.

59:22

It's that you've sinned against the Holy God and his wrath abides on you That's that's the fear

59:29

So, all right. Well, I think I've said enough for this episode. I appreciate everyone weighing in it's been almost an hour

59:35

More coming. In fact tomorrow about 4 p .m. Eastern Time. I'm going to be releasing a

59:41

Show on the greater Idaho project, which I think is an innovative Approach to dividing a state up.

59:48

I know I know they we've talked about this in New York Virginia's talked about this even California, but it's actually a possibility that it could become a reality in Idaho I didn't realize how far they had gotten so we're gonna talk about that.

01:00:01

Is this a viable way to Try to conserve Christian morals by separating oneself from urban coastal cities that tend to control states