The Laborers' Podcast- Christology

Welcome to the laborers podcast tonight. We're going to talk about Christology the study of Jesus Christ We hope you will stay tuned

Once again, welcome to the laborers podcast, we're so grateful that you have joined us tonight We've got the comments open and they are open for you.

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Uh so that they can come to know jesus christ and and know the truth of of god's word

And we love doing it together. I'm, so thankful to be joined with my fellow laborers. What's up guys?

How you doing? Doing all right Very well, good good good good tonight's topic is

Christology and um it Big theological word, but you can see the word christ in there

So it makes it kind of obvious what what that theological term means christology. It's the study of of jesus christ and You know, we've talked about jesus on the road to emmaus and how he

Went through the their scriptures, which were the old testament Speaking to them showing them that um, it it speaks of him.

They were show he was showing them himself in scripture. So I know you've heard us say that a lot and maybe you've heard that in church as well

So whenever you read scripture, you're looking for jesus Uh in each verse in each chapter in each book um

But the christology the study of jesus is a little bit different. It's a little bit deeper

It helps us to take Take the bible as a whole systematically and understand

Jesus and his character and his nature in a more profound deeper way

And it's it's great because we get to learn more about our savior So if y 'all are ready to jump in we'll start right and I feel like sometimes we should be the do the brady bunch thing and And wave it

Oh, so so There you go, so tyler on my on my right, there we go

Let's go with question number one Is jesus god indubitably, absolutely.

Yes. Jesus is god What a word what a word

John chapter john chapter one says in the beginning Literally nrk, which is how the septuagint the greek old testament starts genesis that same way in the beginning

Was the word The logos the the divine reason that's a pretty potent word

And the word was with god And the word was god He was with god in the beginning nrk

And and everything that has been created through him all things have been created I might be splicing that a little bit

If we skip down a couple verses and the word became flesh And dwelt among us and we beheld his glory

And this is about christ absolutely i'm

I'm gonna have to come back to myself because I need I need to turn I need to turn to john chapter one

And i'll share with you guys something that A way that I viewed and and helped me to understand john chapter one

I I explained it when uh, tyler was our guest last week or last sunday on the the truth and love network

And I talked about how I like to use pictures in my mind to help me understand concepts And i'll share that with you once I get to it, but anybody else having

Comments on answering is jesus god um because We're the we're the only religion that will say

Yeah And well, I was gonna make a comment. Yeah, go ahead I just happen to be listening to an old

Q a from Ligonier ministries with sproll earlier this week I don't remember exactly what the question was, but he was talking about this verse john 1 1 and he said it's

Really a key word in there is in the second part of the word was was with god he said that word with It shows a distinction there between the word and god but then later directly after that it also

Clearly shows that the word was god. So right there. You've got the distinction but at the same time the oneness and he said also to the

The word with I don't remember the exact word the original but he said there's in the original language about three words that we can

Translate into the word with And one's kind of like you're with people in a group

Another one is if you were just with one other person like you're walking down the street with someone but the word here used is like a face -to -face

Very intimate relationship so it's the closest relationship you could have so in that verse again, you've got the distinction between the word which later on in verse 14, we clearly see

Is jesus so the distinction between jesus? and the father but in a very close intimate relationship

And then directly following that up by saying they're both The same so I thought his his explanation was a lot deeper than that, but I thought that was interesting to Hear that earlier this week

Here's what I saw in first john, um, and and this may not make sense and I may not do a very good job describing

What I what i'm seeing in my mind, uh, but here's the picture i'm seeing in my mind. It's it's john one

I'm, sorry if I said first john, but it's john chapter one verse verse three And I always found it interesting how

John sounds like he's repeating himself It says all things came into being through him and apart from him.

Nothing came to being that has come into being I was like, what is he saying? And finally what

I did in my mind was I drew a circle and everything within that circle was everything that came into being

And then I drew another circle around that circle and the only thing outside of that circle according to this verse was jesus because everything through through him came into being and nothing and apart from him nothing came into being so The question about him being a created being

He could could not be a created being because he's not within that circle of all things that were created.

He's outside of that circle um And that that may not make sense, but that's that's what

I saw in my mind Uh, I put everything that was created inside that circle and he's on the outside he created

Uh Claude described the concept of eternity and the eternality of christ

All right, I started fretting when you started with tyler Because I I knew that going across the ways that I was next so this is a big one

But I would describe it uh with the scripture, so colossians chapter 1 verse beginning at verse 16

I'm, really not wanting to leave out any of that context but And I know it really kind of will lead us into those other questions, too

But colossians 1 16 he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn over all creation

For by him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth visible and invisible

Whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created through him and for him and he

Is before all things there's eternity and in him all things consist

And he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things

He may have the preeminence. So um, the question is describe the concept of eternity and the eternality of christ well um eternity

By definition is incomprehensible No beginning and no end so And and so in that definition is christ

And as forest would say that's all i've got to say about that Do you think within the definition of the eternality of christ?

It's not just speaking of time but his His greatness

Is do you think that's a part of his eternality Well, I mean the in the incomprehensibility of Eternality itself is

I guess yes It it does go hand in hand. I don't know a big word like indubitably like like tyler used but I know indubitably isn't the right word here, but Um, it it goes hand in hand with that.

It's again, you can't you can't separate and dissect The godhead

Right, and i'm gonna go to the trinity there, right? You can't necessarily dissect them right pull one attribute out because It is god is complete in all things

Yeah right Absolutely If I could add to what claude said about eternity in the eternality of of christ that he's the centerpiece of reality and forgive me if I get too philosophical here, but um when we look at cause and effect which

When we look at reality that kind of governs the way we see things. Um, this happens and as a result this happens

There's a there's a chain you knock over the domino it knocks over another one And if we if we could trace back all the causes and the effects um all the way back

At some point there has to be a starting point Which is logic, right? Um, there has to be a first cause but what would

Require god to not need a cause And some philosophers have debated on this and try to come up with some fancy definition but simply put a cause is

Something being enacted something being put upon it something being that brings energy into movement

And the reason that god doesn't need a cause Is because he is always in motion.

He's always Moving he doesn't need something to make himself

Um kinetic he is always kinetic. He's not potential energy. He is always

Acting he is always actively upholding his creation That that again is incomprehensible

But but makes sense Yeah, and that goes to genesis 1 -1 in the beginning was the work

I'm, sorry in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth The earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep and the spirit of god was hovering over the the waters

Go ahead matt. Sorry about that. I'm saying I think we can take this question and point back to help us answer the first question too just in a little

Greater form as jesus god we can look to His eternality for example in revelation 22 13

Jesus says I am the alpha and the omega the first and the last the beginning and the end

When we go back to the old testament For example, isaiah 44 6 We see the same language about god thus says the lord

The king of israel and his redeemer the lord of hosts. I am the first and I am the last

Besides me there is no god Amen, so you see Them using that same name for christ and god

So again, you can tie that eternality To both the father and the son as well

Amen, absolutely, absolutely and we probably don't have time for for every single nuance of these questions, but the eternality of christ and eternity also brings up the

The the questions of how how does he? View all things at one time And Being outside of time.

I mean so so many So many other incomprehensible questions that that are good to discuss

But it also exalts it exalts his greatness to think about those concepts.

Um Andy, how about the next one? Uh, what is incarnation and describe the incarnation of jesus and its implications?

Well, uh before I get to that sure I want to kind of touch on where we've been Um, and I think this is

I think this is part of the reason I always I always get a little chuckle when I see our homework and it's 12 questions like yeah, we'll never get to all those

Which is actually a good thing because it means we're taking what we're answering seriously. We're not checking boxes

We're actually taking these things seriously. So in order for me to do that, I think it's important to touch on These first two questions real quick Uh, first of all,

I want to thank you rob for posing question number one in the way, which you did you said

Is jesus god and what you didn't ask was was jesus god

I can't stand it because when people ask it that way because And some people may be well -intentioned they may be but usually when they're asking about that They're hyper focused on the fact of jesus the man and therefore

Understand him to have existed as a man in time and therefore it was previous to when we exist

So they think of it in terms of having existed And so I like the fact that you asked the question correctly is jesus god well

I got I got up at a sermon. I did a sermon one time a long time ago. I can't remember what name it was But it was something about the deity of christ.

I got up. I said is jesus god and the congregation went. Yeah I said, all right, let's go home

Nothing more to cover. We're good. Um because the whole hinge of christianity and scripture or the whole

Foundation or I should say of christianity and scripture hinges on that fact if jesus is not god in human flesh

He's then he's not who he said. He was he's not what he claimed to be and so that's very important.

Um in terms of the eternality Just like with the trinity i'm always

And i'd say that kind of lightly because I guess you can't is you really we try to avoid using terms like never and always i've learned that in therapy don't use terms like never and always but I typically hesitate to Or shy away from uh analogies of any kind for the trinity.

The worst one is the four leaf clover three leaf clover. I I I just I want to compete my head against the wall.

Every time I hear about a clover It's not an analogy for the trinity and I hear the things like the you know

Three lines that are drawn on top of each other like that's that's not it either That's modalism patrick.

Oh, yeah Isn't there uh lutheran satire on the trinity Yeah, yeah

It's just it's bad just as general rule Don't attempt to use creaturely concepts and creaturely categories to describe the infinite

And so in terms of the eternality we have to understand You could try to come up with some type of creaturely analogy or picture in your mind to understand it

But the fact of the matter is you can't And this hits to the heart of who god is and who we are.

We have to remind ourselves that Time is a created order God exists outside of his creation.

That's right There was nothing without god and in reference to john 1 3 we talked about, you know

Nothing would have came into being without christ that word Translated made or came into being is a word talking about creation with a point of time in or a point of origin in time

Whereas when he talks about christ, it's the present tense self -existence of I am I exist

And so god's nature is completely different from our own. We are created and we are creaturely

So we're not going to understand it because we can't experience it. We don't know what it's like to be a self -existent being um

But if y 'all permit me, I just want to go old testament on y 'all for a little bit. Um As soon as I saw the question

I as I immediately my mind went to isaiah 43 so Now, I know i'm not asking the question.

I was asked but i've really worked hard on this one So I really want to make sure I get this put this point across go for it.

Go for it Uh in reference to number one is jesus god We could spend a lot of time talking about john 8 where The jews clearly understood what jesus was claiming, but I like the old the old testament in isaiah 43

Verse three says for I am the lord your god and i'm actually you know, i'm gonna pull up I'm, actually gonna read this from the legacy standard bible because I love the way it translates it

He says for I am yahweh your god the holy one of israel your savior And he talks about how he gives egypt as your ransom and goes on so on so forth

Verse seven everyone who is called by my name whom I created for my glory Whom I formed and made this is yahweh using god language creation formed sovereignty

Decree all these things so keep that in mind then you get down to verse 10 You are my witnesses declares yahweh and my servant.

This is the constant theme One of the constant themes throughout isaiah is the suffering servant the coming messiah, this is obviously who's been talked about here

My servant whom I have chosen That you may know and believe me and understand that watch this.

I am he There's no question that the writer is

Denoting that this servant this messiah this coming one is god himself

All throughout isaiah all throughout other places in the old testament you get this language that the messiah is god himself

And that's why he says Before me no god was formed nor shall there be anyone after me

I I am the lord besides me. There is no savior I declared and saved and proclaimed wherein when there was no strange god or there was no strange god among you you're my witnesses and there's more in the chapter that could be brought out there, but It is very clear in the old testament

And in the new for that matter, but the old testament is very clear that this coming messiah That's prophesied against is god himself coming micah talks about this this coming one in chapter five is literally our peace

So if you want to talk about scripture's witness to it, there's no question What scripture thought of?

So you really just have to go from there. So, um, i'll kind of just stop there and if anybody wants to pick up or respond

Or maybe take the question i was supposed to answer Yeah, keep on keep on going tell us about the uh, okay

I was gonna say I don't want to optimize the time But if you want me to i'll go ahead and i'll jump into the uh, incarnation part.

That'll be fun I'll tee us up and let everybody else go after that. Um, obviously with the uh with the incarnation we we we think of Uh philippians two is obviously a passage that readily comes to mind um

And the question is what is incarnation describe it the implications so on so forth

Uh verse five of chapter two says have this mind in yourselves The king james says let this mind be in you the new american standard

I think translates it to have this attitude. The idea is that This word translated mind is a word that means that the inner perspective or the inner essence

Manifests in outward behavior. So there's a unity and a harmony there And if you think about how we operate as creatures god's creatures

What is on the heart jesus even said this that which is in the heart proceeds out of man And so that's what he's saying.

Let be what is in your heart as christians match The same type of mindset that christ had as the servant and so then the classic verses are verse six is who?

referring to jesus Though he was in the form of god this word form meaning shape outward expression

That is in complete harmony with the inner so you see a Similarity in language an interesting note in hebrews one verse three.

These are the word which we get icon the exact representation of god he

In the form of god did not account equality with god a thing to be grasped or seized after Emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant

Being born in the likeness of man and one thing to point out here when it says That he's made in the likeness of men or being born in likeness of men

This is a word that means to emerge or to become It's a transitioning from one point around to another

This is not as the false teaching goes that jesus is a created being or had a point or an origin or origin point in time

It just simply says at a point in time the second person of the trinity took on flesh

He became man And then finally verse eight and being found in the human form He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death in death lacrosse.

So i'll just say very briefly the the biggest takeaway in understanding the incarnation there is

Some that will try to debate, you know What christ could do this that and the other the biggest thing to take away here is that?

God himself Is Glory and majesty among what we can even comprehend

Try to imagine the level of condescension to lower himself to a created order

That is full of dust and flesh and pain and sorrow and aching bones and All that goes with it

And he did it for us so In closing i'll say, uh, dr james white has has always said consistently um, we see the trinity revealed in the incarnation of the sun and now pouring at the spirit and in reference to And i'm not touching on the trinity now that's coming in a minute

But in terms of the trinity and god jesus being god Once you've established that both the sun and the spirit are yahweh the debate is over And so that ultimately is the incarnation that god himself literally took on human flesh

Mm -hmm. Sorry for the monologue there. Oh, it's okay It's good great information and and what you were talking about the it's so hard the humility of christ and the condescension that that took place and So many areas that you could go with that and I was just thinking when you were talking about I was just thinking about you know

The nails that they used on the cross weren't weren't created

Um like a tree The materials were but they it took the ingenuity that god gave man to make those nails and And those nails that that man formed put

Kept jesus on the cross put jesus on the cross the his his own creation man

The the material the the nails that through their ingenuity formed it it it took

It took smarts. It took labor to make this thing God allowed himself to be killed by his own creation.

Yes and and they They took all that effort

And didn't worship him didn't exalt him but killed him with what they had made and I mean, it's just unimaginable talking about his condescension

Any other thoughts on on his incarnation? I was gonna say

I think it's one thing we can look to is we how important the affirmation of god in the flesh is

We look at first john four one through three And second john verse seven

Kind of in summary it says those that deny cross came in the flesh have the spirit of the antichrist so that right there tells us that affirming the humanity that cross came in the flesh as god that is an essential

Of the faith. That's right Amen There is a quote that came to mind while you were saying that robert that I would love to share real quick Oh, yeah from uh, octavius winslow the puritan from the 1800s one of my favorites honestly

And he says so completely was jesus bent upon saving sinners by the sacrifice of himself

That he created the tree upon which he was to die And nurtured from infancy

The men who were to nail him to the accursed wood That'll make the hair on your neck stand up amen

That's the truth And I always loved octavius that the net that name

Octavius winslow what a name I always think of dr. Octopus. That's right Oh part of that question matt, um

Is another big theological term, uh, the hypostatic union um and I was

I was only familiar with that word, you know, not too many years ago Um, and many many may not be familiar with that word.

So explain what the hypostatic union is Like I said, it's basically a theological term to state that Jesus at the same time was both fully god and fully man and To some degree,

I mean that it's one of those things Like andy was talking about we can't try too hard to Try to make analogies out of this or or Explain this in human terms.

There is a certain air of mystery to that because we start trying to Like he said with the trinity start trying to describe this too much.

We're going to get off into the heresy But I think for this and also other things

Not only going to scripture and obviously just trusting What it tells us but this is a good topic where we can

Look to the historical creeds and confessions that these Subjects have been

Debated throughout church history And as we look to these creeds and confessions over time we see what the historical

Orthodox church what they have Come to a conclusion based on scripture

We don't hold the creeds and confessions Up equal with scripture, but they are a time -tested way just a summary of what scripture says and as far as the hypostatic union third

I would also commend everyone an episode Specifically on the hypostatic union on the here.

I stand theology podcast that claude and I did I don't

I don't remember when that was maybe claude can find the link Yeah, yeah, we did a whole episode on that, but i'll put it on the recent page

I think one of the the best is Which we talked about this in the episode the chalcedonian definition

And one thing I won't read the whole thing, but one thing I really like in it is

It talks about the two natures of christ and it kind of gives something

Negatives per se About it to understand it It says we find it in here

Okay, it says the natures of christ undergo no confusion no change

No division or no separation So we have to again there's mystery just based on the limitations of our human mind of How a person can be fully god and fully man

At the same time we can go through scripture and see that jesus

How he was the attributes of divinity and also the attributes of a fruitful human being and again, we ultimately

Trust what scripture says And go with that That was the person work of christ, correct?

That was the name of that episode I think it was it was that first one we did on the person and work of christ

Got it Nice and real quick too. Um, i'll send that link here in a minute, but matt mentioned the uh, confessions the belgic confession

There's another one article 19 actually is specifically on the union and distinction of the two natures and the person of christ

We believe that by this conception the person of the son is inseparably united and connected with human nature

So that they're not two sons of god nor two persons But two natures united in one single person

Yet that each nature retains its own distinct properties As then the divine nature has always remained

Uncreated without beginning of days or end of life Filling heaven and earth so also had the human nature not lost its properties

But remained a creature Having beginning of days being a finite nature in retaining all the properties of a real body

And though he hath by his resurrection given immortality to the same

Nevertheless, he has not changed the reality of his human nature or as much as our salvation and resurrection

Also depend on the reality of his body. That's just paragraph one. There's a second paragraph but the belgic confession article 19

If I could interject uh something real here because because I think I think this needs to be said because it speaks to one of the purposes of our podcast because I don't want listeners to to get lost and think that we're just taking them through the thick

Jungle of theology here and and they can't see past all the weeds and all the thickness

Of the jungle that that we're taking them through and and think to themselves. What's the purpose?

Yes, there is a simplicity to christianity that that Where god can save a child?

What we We believe that god god can save someone who has you know, limited knowledge

And and know know enough to be saved. However In this world, there are people who believe in jesus

Mormons jehovah's witness muslim catholic satan

I believe in jesus But they have a different jesus.

Amen When you hear the word christology or hypostatic union Yes, it may seem like we're taking you through the thick jungle of theology or taking you through the weeds and You you seem lost and you can't see the destination and the treasure that we're taking you to But it's so important that we move from simplicity

To maturity in the faith and maturity in the word because Not everybody's jesus is the biblical jesus

And we want you to have the biblical jesus I want to piggyback on that rob hebrews talks about moving on from milk and to on to meat

So a lot of a lot of situations. I don't know that you could apply this in every situation But generally I'll talk about preaching against the extremes

So for example in this the context of what you just said the extremes would be this You must have exhaustive knowledge of every creed confession.

Dr Thesis anything that's ever been put in print by a christian. You need to know it be able to speak it

Understand it and teach it back to somebody the other extreme is One two three repeat after me punch your ticket to heaven who cares if you even know anything about anything.

That's right Yeah, here's the difference with this that I would take Versus some other things normally you would say

The truth is in the middle try to find balance and that's that's all well and good On this one.

I actually think we're called to lean towards Don't go up to the thou must know every possible thing.

There is to know You don't go that far but we're to lean and have our aim be

Say several notches past whatever is neutral because in the in the interest of what you were talking about those

We're coming the fact of matter is scripture commands us To grow into the depth and the richness of all there is to know about christ

So if you're not actively pursuing that you're sinning But the bible does not require every christian to have the same level of exactness of knowledge

And also the bible does not require us all to be able to articulate there is a specific Reason why it is told in ephesians that pastors and teachers are a gift to the church

Not so those pastors and teachers can think in their pride or think highly of themselves because one of our requirements

As a biblically qualified elder in christ's church I take it immensely serious to humble myself and understand that the knowledge and the gifts i've been given didn't originate with me

They were given to me So having said that we as a preacher It's not my job to get there and preach something that literally everybody can understand at all times and never go beyond that No, i'm supposed to be inching you closer and deeper in knowledge, but those

People that are marred by sin's curse in their body to where their minds aren't able

Or say a child obviously there's developmental things In eternity that won't be an issue

Everybody will be able to grow the key now is doing as much as you can and only you can really answer whether you are

Right, that's right. That's right. That's why this is important. Oh, yeah Absolutely Can I say one more thing on the incarnation?

I just wanted to kind of touch back on the implications one thing I wanted to I was kind of drawn to was

Galatians four four and five But when the fullness of time had come God sent forth his son born of woman born under the law

To redeem those who were under the law So that we might receive adoptions as sons

So I think that's To me in a nutshell. That's the implication that christ came in the flesh to redeem his people

Amen, that's right. That's right Well, I just want to hit one really quick very we're talking about trying to keep things simple to some degree too

A very very simple implication of the incarnation of christ if in fact jesus christ is god everything he claimed to be and he

Died was buried and rose again and has all authority. You're gonna bow knee to him one day and You've got to reconcile

What you believe with that at some point in this life or you'll be wishing you had And for the christian, that's the greatest hope that we have

I mean I struggle in battle with depression have for probably since I was in high school And the only thing that really gets me through any of it is the fact that christ is god

If if jesus christ is not god if there's not a sovereign god over this universe. This is a scary

Frightening world to live in because there's nothing beyond it And in my in my mind, what's the point of living with this depression if there's no eternity?

I mean I could end it now and I no more pain. And why do you think the suicide rate's so high?

The reason i'm not like that is because I believe that jesus is god and the hope that I have in him

Spurs me forward even in the midst of great trouble Amen I appreciate that guys

Tyler And we we've already talked about it and and we don't want to we don't want to go outside our boundaries.

Um, But the trinity and and jesus's part in the trinity. Um Keep us within the bounds of scripture, but but help us to to understand the trinity a little bit

All right, everybody get your fidget spinners out. We're about to have a thing Let me just go ahead and give you a a preemptive

Oh Now we we've heard some of those illustrations with like the three arms of the fidget spinner and you got father son dot dot dot

I disagree with that. But um uh deuteronomy 6 Um, I think is pretty important here.

This is um part of what's called the shema. This is one of the key prayers of Um the jews in ancient israel and this is actually something that jesus cites

When he's asked what the greatest commandment is and he takes him to the shema but the beginning of the shema is

Here israel the lord our god the lord is one

And I think it's important to note here that in the septuagint that is the greek copy of the old testament

That hebrew word yahweh is rendered as kurios, which we know is lord

So when jesus says he is lord They knew what he meant

There's not There's not disambiguation. I can't say that word for some reason today. There's no disambiguity

About that because he's using a word That has been used to render yahweh

He knew what he was saying and they knew what he was saying, you know, just throwing that out there secondly if the lord is one

Then whatever we come up with about christ and the holy spirit Has to fit within that verse because if not

We have a very sincere problem here when the tried and true, um tested um testimony of moses

Amen Which jesus himself said was about me about christ

If this is incorrect, we have a we have a pretty significant issue here But jesus himself said

I and the father are one And so the best way i've found to Articulate this is that there are different persons

To what we call the trinity there's the father the son and the spirit, but they're not different people

They're not different entities. They are the same substance um But there's different personalities that build on each other.

So you have the son who Gave his life For the sheep you have the father who sent him to do so and you have the holy spirit who advocates

For those redeemed people after he ascended back to heaven amen country language

The father thought it the son brought it and the spirit taught it absolutely That is

I think the best way I can think to put that in words keeping within the same boundaries

If somebody can do a better job than me i'm open to the invitation No, I think that's good.

I think one thing we can see Again claude and I did an episode on the trinity as well

I think one thing that we focused on in that episode as you Go through the totality of scripture, which we've talked about a little bit already with jesus the son and god the father

Add the spirit in there. You can see throughout scripture the same qualities and attributes given

To the father the son and the spirit all three showing that they are one in the same

That's right Amen I want to share a few books uh, hopefully linked to them, but this one is the forgotten trinity by James r white dr.

White and I actually had a chance to meet him at a trinity conference in mechanicsville, uh

Virginia actually Got it signed Because you know, it's not official if it's not signed Um, and we actually picked up another book i've read through quite a bit called knowing the trinity

And that is by ryan mcgraw, um, and dr. White in his book To me lays it out very well, and it's completely consistent with what tyler just said, although albeit in slightly different words

Dr. White says hey if you want to know if you have being essence existence

I'll pick up this rock and i'll throw it at your head. You're gonna find out very quickly that you have being because it's gonna hurt

Your personality persons we we as creatures Have one being that is not eternal now.

We will in terms of in this I'm, not even gonna try to explain this I'm just gonna say it because it gets really deep in the weeds as rob says

We will be eternal in the sense of moving forward in time and then the whole discussion of whether or not time will exist in eternity, which

I I think I tend to think it will because it's a function of our creation, but We are not eternal in the same way god is the point

Uh, but we are one person so if you have multiple persons, we have therapy and medication and Psychiatrists for that because we call it multiple personality

Disorder it's not normal. We're one being one person God is one being three persons

And as matt and many others have said various times as we've been answering these questions We have to let scripture speak and stop there

When we attempt to introduce human categories creaturely categories to explain the infinite you're gonna fail

Because we don't have the experiential piece To know or know what that's like.

We do not know what it's like to have three persons We only know what it's like to have one so As dr.

White points out Once you've demonstrated from scripture and it sounds like i'm gonna have to go back and watch this episode

It sounds like a really good episode the one with matt and claude on the trinity, but he'll say once you've demonstrated that God the father god the son and god the spirit are all

Yahweh the debate is over because you have three persons one being and so It is not something that we can experientially comprehend

So a lot of times you have to let scripture speak and stop And what scripture shows us is tyler correctly pointed out hero israel.

The lord our god is one There is only one true god. That's right, and he has revealed himself

As three distinct persons within that godhead. Yeah So let me ask you, uh some questions.

So The episode on the trinity. Is it the same episode as the hypostatic union?

No, sir. I'm sending it to you right now. Actually i'm sending it in the chat in the in the uh, Messenger fantastic and and tyler that link that you sent in the comments.

Is that the here I stand? Yes, that's the person to work with christ right there. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha You get to see a beardless mad in that one

Oh beardless I had written something on the trinity probably about a year ago Um, i'll i'll see if I can find that too that we can sure put out as well

Yeah, yeah, i'll put it on the resource page. Yeah, all these links i'm gonna put on the resource page. Oh, yeah, and um, one of the concepts andy that you were talking about was was our um our

Living span i'm not going to use those words right now Yeah, I want to use them in a second as as we continue forward forever because of how god made us and our souls um,

I think it's when I was studying john 3 16 and and you my greek guys Uh, because i'm not one help help me out and tell me if i'm wrong but when

I I think it's when I was studying john 3 16 and some versions use um

For god to love the world that he gave his his one and only son that that everyone believing him should not perish but have

Eternal life and some versions you say everlasting life And what I found is that there are two different words

The word eternal which was properly defined earlier is A time frame.

Well, it's not a time frame. It has no beginning. It has no end But then the word everlasting has a starting point, but then does not have an end

So that helped me out to help understand In our position

In time where we we have a starting point, but then we we have no end. So the proper word um for us to use to describe ourselves would be everlasting and I think the proper word for john 3 16 would be everlasting

That's I would I would use the word eternal would you okay. Yeah. Um the

The My note here it's because you have to remember what christ is talking about is

You could literally render render the verse if you're going to and sometimes a literal rendering is clunky that's why our translations work it out, but a literal rendering would be something to the effect of god

So amazingly loved his created order in this fashion that he would send or give his son

That the believing ones the or the ones believing will not be perishing But will have eternal life

And the understanding you're taking someone passing from death to life So an unsaved person when their physical body dies, they will pass to eternal damnation and eternal death

A saved person passes from they pass from death to life so that their physical death is not an ending of life

It's eternal life in the sense that we have There is a very real sense in which we have the entirety of the blessing of the life that is in christ as in us and as our possession

And that goes beyond human Comprehension that I literally have the very life and righteousness of christ living in me

And that that's that life that life more abundant that christ goes on to talk about in later chapters in the gospel of john

I've come that you may have life And have it more abundantly he weren't speaking specifically now there is a there is a sense of when he's speaking

There's obviously the resurrected body in mind, but he's talking to people that are already physically alive Their biggest need was not to have a physically alive body for they already had that their need was spiritual life

This eternal life is the very spiritual life. That is as we are raised the miracle of the spirit in the human person.

So um everlasting in the king james english to me Is not wrong in a sense of how dare they translate it that way it's more just not it's incorrect in my mind because it puts in your mind the understanding of the you know

Life without end which that's what eternal life is. Um, which so either way you're not wrong.

I just I prefer eternal Gotcha. Gotcha Well, um to help that out.

Um robert, um the word that we render as ionios In john 3 16, uh, um literally means unending has no beginning and no end long

And it's actually used in genesis in the the greek rendering to describe god's covenants after the flood for all future all time

You have the eternal life of christ, which has as tyler just said no beginning no end We have that in us living in us, even though we didn't produce it ourselves

That that's that's that is the true depth of the eternal life that we have in christ. Gotcha I I don't want to give the wrong reference, but I want to say because i'm and and I don't know how you guys favor this author or not, but I know when

I was studying john, I I read a lot of um And I don't know how to pronounce his last name best or w w u e s t and his four -book commentary

Have you have you heard of that one? Yeah Shooting in the dark

I I don't know how to pronounce it But but I read a lot of him when I was in john, I I think that's where Where I got that from the distinction between everlasting and eternal.

Um, and I can share that with What that looks like share with you guys you you can look it up to see what you think about about that guy um

The key to keep in mind is there's not actually a difference in terms of the what the original meaning was It's just in english we have

Two different words. They're basically saying the same thing. Gotcha. Gotcha. Good deal Now going on to the next question claude.

I think if you put two and two together with everything that we've said You can pretty much get the answer to this next question

But I think it's a a good question to go ahead and ask and make the distinction and answer

So do we pray to worship ascribe glory to jesus as we would do the father?

Indubitably Yes, certainly absolutely

Uh, wait a second. Wait a second. Certainly definitely for sure indeed.

No question. Of course positively surely Absolutely. Yes, and and I can um,

I will articulate that And I again will go to one of the historic creeds the athanasian creed

So, um Athanasius actually athanasius didn't actually author the creed but it's still called the athanasian creed.

So So it says whoever desires to be saved should above hold all to the catholic faith universal faith not the roman catholic

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally And this is the catholic faith that we worship one god in trinity in the trinity in unity

Neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence For the person of the father is a distinct person

The person of the son is another and the person of the holy spirit is still another But the divinity of the father son and holy spirit is one their glory equal their majesty co -eternal

What glory or what quality the father has the son has and the holy spirit has? The father is uncreated son is uncreated the holy spirit is uncreated

The father is immeasurable. The son is measurable. The holy spirit is immeasurable. The father is eternal

The son is eternal. The holy spirit is eternal and yet there are not three eternal beings yet. There is but one eternal being so to So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings there is but one

Uh uncreated and immeasurable being but the athanasian creed actually itself there in that first statement says yes

All glory all honor all praise all worship is ascribed to the father to the son

And to the holy spirit Amen if I could follow that up with a quote from augustine

That I think is very timely Um In one of his letters and in his time period um bishops would write a lot of letters to different churches encouraging them in truth and answering questions and things like that and one particular letter augustine who is a pastor about around the fourth century he writes

Certainly it is written hero israel. The lord your god is one lord Right. That's deuteronomy 6

Of whom do you think that this is said? If it is said only of the father then our lord jesus christ is not god

Why did those words then come to thomas when he touched christ and he cried out my lord and my god

John 20 28 Which christ did not reprove. He didn't rebuke him for saying that But he approved it by saying because you have seen you have believed

Amen So yes And in full agreement with what claude said that christ is god in the sense that when we are praising the father

We are praising the son It's three persons one substance. So Amen, it's god

That that is an all income and that is an all Encapsulating term that we praise the father son and spirit at the same time in the same way

We may not use the words spirit son and father, but when we say praise god, we're not saying praise the son

It's praise god Amen. Amen. I'll piggyback off that real quick.

We can as tyler said that Jesus did not Reprove thomas we can see throughout scripture multiple times

That it clearly says that jesus was worshiped And not once did he reprove anyone?

on the flip side in acts we see peter refusing to worship from cornelius

And even in revelation we see the angels refuse to be worshiped so In scripture itself it bears that all others refuse worship but jesus himself

Never denied or approved anyone for worshiping him amen, right and I Just to throw this in there too because I mean at that time period

I mean i'm thinking about who who was on the coin um, and who was You you're reading through scripture and you're learning about all the different timelines

Um, you you think about the pharaoh you think about who was on the coin in jesus's day. It was caesar

It wasn't uncommon for for a leader to claim to be god

To hold the the status of deity and and they didn't They didn't reprove anybody for worshiping them.

And so I I think a good distinction to make is um, jesus proved it amen

Jesus proved it. He proved himself to be god. So he is he is worthy of worship and these other guys you can

Um, you may not be able to find their tomb, but they're there They're there so i've got some uh scripture for this question, um

As a presuppositionalist, you know believing that scripture is the foundation for all truth. We need to take it seriously what what scripture says and We also need to take seriously

What the eyewitnesses the authors of these books said and so paul in the beginning of his letter to first corinthian

To the corinthians the first letter Paul says paul called by the will of god So he establishes the authority by which he's called.

Yeah But what is he called to he's called to be an apostle messenger of christ jesus why We'll get back to that.

He says, uh to the church of god That is in corinth to those

Sanctified or set apart as holy in christ. Jesus establishing our identity as christians under the authority of god called in a sense that Paul was specifically set aside as an apostle, but all christians including paul are called to be saints or god's holy ones

With all those who are in every place Notice we call upon the name of our lord jesus christ

Who is both their? lord and ours

That's right Sorry i'm wired to preach it's just it's it's my my nature.

Um But yeah, I mean there's there's there's many other scriptures we'd go to but to me

This has always been my go -to because within these first two verses of this letter You have god's authority established.

You have god's attributes being um Said of with christ and christ being equal with god

And the identity of christians being established because they're sanctified in christ jesus who is god

And therefore we not only call upon the name of the lord for salvation but we do it because He is both their lord meaning the christians in every place

And ours specifically meaning the his initial readers here So the reason we pray and call upon the name of the lord

Jesus christ is in fact like tyler matt and everybody else said because he is god. There's no way there's no way around it

That's right. That's right um and and I was just thinking about You going taking us to the scriptures and I was thinking about how appreciative

I am of all you guys taking us to the scriptures And taking us to creeds and confessions that take us to scriptures

And if you if you guys want to go back a couple episodes back to where we were talking about the bible I think it was the first episode and some people get into the weeds and and get arguments that um, you're just going to the bible

You know, you can't use the bible. That's circular reasoning. But the reason we can use the bible is because It's true.

It's authoritative. So we're going to we're going to speak as if it is true and authoritative

But number two, it's provable just like christ proved his deity. The scripture is provable and so it's not circular

It's circular reasoning, but we can use it because it proves itself so Self -attesting truth self -attesting.

Yes, sir. So don't be intimidated by those guys that are coming at you with that so i'm going to um, andy i'm going to make this this next four -parter a three -parter because Claude beautiful claude and tyler both beautifully answered.

Um, The about the deity of jesus. Um, so it starts out is jesus sovereign omnipotent

Omnipotent omnipresent all -knowing. Yes. He is because as they described he is god

So he is all those things but here's the questions that come up when Um a young believer or any believer is reading scripture studying scripture and they come across those verses um

And they ask themselves So if that's true How were there things that jesus didn't know?

You know that verse that says not even the son of man knows that the day or the hour um, and then

Why did jesus have to learn and grow in stature? Um, and then the last one why did jesus only do what he sees the father do or whatever what the father says?

Or tells him to do um Why is jesus in those positions? Why do we have those verses in scripture if jesus is god and he is all those things um

That characterizes who god is I got um I was blessed someone gifted me a very nice esb study bible last christmas and i've really enjoyed a lot of notes in there

So i'll read Uh, two very short notes on this one The first note I want to read is in the section of philippians 2 where we were talking about the incarnation earlier and to Drive a context here.

This is another one of those areas where You have to let scripture speak have the final word and accept what it says because if you try to Experientially understand it you're going to kind of get in the weeds and you're going to kind of You what you end up with is something that's not consistent with scripture.

And so This first, uh in terms of this is in reference to verse 7 We're talking about christ emptying himself because some will make the argument that he ceased to be god.

Whereas the correct answer would be that God set aside jesus set aside his independent

Exercise of his attributes as god in the trinitarian harmony and redemption so that while christ was on earth in the flesh

He submitted himself perfectly to the will of the father And so in light of that the note says that paul is not saying that christ

Became less than god or quote unquote gave up Any of his divine attributes he is not even commenting directly on the question of whether jesus was fully

This is where your question comes in Whether he was fully omnipotent or omniscient during his time on earth

Nor is he saying that christ ever gave up being in the form of god rather paul is stressing that christ

Who had all the privileges that were rightly his as king of the universe? Gave them up to become an ordinary jewish baby bound on the cross or bound for the cross.

So The main point in the context of philippians is the understanding of the condescension what christ leaving his his throne his rightful throne to come live among us that tabernacling among us and then the other one he brought up is classically matthew 24 36 and one thing

I always caution people about too is You take a verse like matthew 24 36 You have to be careful how much weight you give it in talking about things that the context is not talking about so matthew 24 is obviously a

Prophetic scripture you're going through and you're he's talking about um 70 ad and the coming and all these different things the temple being torn down all these different things going on And so that is the primary context.

So we're going to take something like matthew 24 36, which says but concerning that day an hour

Meaning that prophetic day that is coming No one knows not even angels of heaven and just to mention here.

There is a textual variant here Some manuscript evidence that we have in our possession does not contain the words nor the sun

I tend to believe that the most reliable ones do contain it, but it's always worth noting.

There is a variant So it's at least have to allow the possibility That this verse is not even a verse that should be in question in reference to the deity of christ and whether he

Knew certain things and stuff but be that as it may it says not even angels of heaven or the son

But the father only and the note in the esv study bible for this verse

Says a lot of things and we don't have time for it. So I just want to focus on this last paragraph uh in talking about the properties of deity properties of being the god man, it says

That meant that the properties of deity and the properties of humanity Were both preserved.

That's what we mean. He's fully god fully man. He's not a mixture of god and man He's not a you know, 75 25 or 80 20 100 100.

Yeah 100 100 all full properties of being of god and human flesh what it means to be human

And what it means for jesus to be god yahweh fully preserved How jesus could have had limited knowledge?

and yet know all things in his all -knowing is

Difficult to understand it and matt brought up this word earlier in our discussion the word mystery

Much remains a mystery and we need to let a lot of it probably remain that way

For nobody else. This is a key point. Nobody else has ever been both god and man

There's only one person And the entirety of existence has ever been god and man.

That's right One possibility and I I do like this one possibility Is that jesus regularly lived?

on the basis of his human knowledge, so what what the Writer of this note here in the study bible saying is that as a general understanding or as a general rule

Day in and day out jesus acted upon and lived under the basis of his human knowledge

Which did have to grow over time like anyone else? The human mind develops over time so in the sense of jesus being a man he had to develop his

You know his his body and his mind and understand things and grow But at the same time being god, he knows everything there is that could be known.

So It says one possibility is that jesus regularly lived on the basis of his human knowledge, but could at any time call to mind anything that he would need from his infinite knowledge now

That's one person's of you know understanding and opinion of it. Um I just I think it's important that we let scripture speak and leave it at that There are there are demonstrations on the new testament where god or jesus christ clearly

Demonstrated that he has infinite knowledge Complete knowledge, but there's other times here where he says look in reference to that day and hour

Only the father knows the person of the father. So within the workings of the trinity They're all god

They're the same being but within that person the persons of the trinity and their agreement Before the foundation of the world and their plan of redemption.

Is there certain things that the son? agreed to not Know or he's it's really difficult to understand these things.

That's why It's it needs to be it's a mystery to a degree. So I just wanted to bring out those two notes

I thought that was really interesting. Well, just to affirm it just to affirm that and to attest to the affirmation of scriptures themselves further on when luke wrote in acts right, they all stared up in the head or they

After the resurrection acts 1 6 Therefore when they come together, they ask him saying lord

Will you at this time restore the kingdom to israel? And he said to them it is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the father

Has put in his own authority, right so that he just reaffirmed

What he said before Which is awesome Yeah for me It really is more of an issue of authority than it is whether he literally had the knowledge at the point in time

I really think the point he was getting across was that That day and that time is not for you to know, right?

Right, and that's what he told them That's right. I think as andy said we've got to Go back to what we talked about before we we have to have the understanding of the two distinct natures of christ and that to realize that his

Human nature was a true authentic human nature and as i've heard rc sproles say um, which

I listen to him all the time, he said as Especially evangelicals. We have a tendency to Let the divine nature of christ

Swallow up his human nature, but we've got to have that understanding

That that human nature Was an authentic human nature And again as we said and andy touched on Trust what scripture says it clearly says he had to in his human nature grow in wisdom and stature

Yeah, there's a way in which the god of this universe came and used the terminology of the gospel john tabernacled among us

That we just simply are not meant to or capable of understanding well guys

We could do a marathon On most of these on most of these uh biblical topics,

I mean we could do a marathon especially on the the Topic of christology and talking about our lord and savior.

Jesus christ. I mean we really could And I think in our in our podcast guide

Um, I think we have enough to do another episode on christology

When you talk about the sinless life and all those things you're touching on a whole thing You're touching on a bunch of stuff. We haven't even covered

So if you guys are okay, can we do a christology part two? Absolutely. Oh, yeah sounds good

I'm, just glad to be here with y 'all Same here same here. So with that with that being said, um,

Matt would you share the glorious gospel of jesus christ? And then when he finishes andy, would you close us in prayer?

Yes, sir absolutely simply the gospel is the good news of the person and work of jesus christ who we've talked about tonight and How who he was and what he did?

benefits the believer because Because we begin with god is holy he's perfect.

He's righteous. He's just In contrast man is sinful wicked rebellious rebellious against god

Because god is holy and perfect. He can have no fellowship of sin because he is just He must punish sin.

So in our sinful rebellious state we deserve God's punishment.

We deserve nothing But death and god's wrath But god is also a loving and merciful god

And in his love and mercy He provided a way of reconciliation that man could not provide

And he provided that in the way of his one and only son jesus christ born of a virgin

Lived a sinless perfect life That no one before no one after could do and because He lived that perfect sinless life

He was not only willing but he was also able to go to the cross to be a substitute for sinners to go to the cross to die again as a substitute to satisfy god's wrath against sin and as he hung on the cross he

Made the declaration that it is finished that he had done the work That nothing else was required to satisfy god's justice he was the propitiation for our sin

After he died he was buried But as he said he would three days later he arose

And at the appointed time ascended back to heaven to the right hand of the father

Where he sits today reigning over all things And we're told in scripture for those

Who repent of their sins and believe upon christ? and call upon his name

That we will be saved that Through his death our sins are forgiven

Through his perfect life and the righteousness He earned therein we are given his righteousness so that when we stand

Before god those who have trusted in christ Our sins are no longer seen but instead the righteousness of christ

Is seen upon us And we are adopted as sons and daughters of the king and granted eternal life and on the flip side those

Who deny christ who do not turn to him in faith? They will be separated from god's goodness for all time

In a place called hell a real place where god is pouring out his wrath, so Our plea to anyone listening tonight if you have not already

Heed the command of jesus himself to repent And believe the gospel Let's pray together father

I do ask that you would bless the time that we had together and lord, I do thank you for rob and his leadership and the truth and love network that is putting this on and The invitation that they put out to many of us to come and join

I thank you for tyler and for claude and for matt and also for our brothers that could not be with us tonight pastor john and big john and dan and in the rest lord that You would help us to be the chief repenters in our home that you would help us to demonstrate and model christ's likeness in our homes and to carry that out into the world and father,

I pray that we would grow in the knowledge of christ that we would not be lazy christians to understand that While there is a simplicity to what we believe we are not called to rest on that simplicity but we are to grow in the depth and the richness of Everything that sums up in christ and we have a unity as believers, even though we are separated by physical distance all of us here and Anyone that has watched or listened to any of these programs that are christian.

We are unified in our identity in christ In our sanctification in christ the blessings that we have in the beloved

As matt pointed out father the adoption you have literally adopted us into your family and we are thankful for that and we

We are hoping our aim as rob has said many times is that we will image christ but do it in a way where we can not only grow ourselves, but those that would watch and listen will grow because None of us here on this program have it all together we

Do not have exhaustive knowledge We have areas we may be stronger in than others and weaker and vice versa

But we learn from each other and we hope that anyone that listens will learn as well but finally before we close father,

I do want to stress and Thank you for the fact that you did send your son into this world

To tabernacle among us to take on human flesh and everything that comes with that in order to live and breathe and Have a perfect sinless existence therefore

Making him the worthy sacrifice and as matt pointed out that that propitiation father he

Our our lord jesus christ satisfied your wrath for our sin And that is a wonderful and blessed hope that we have in christ and we thank you for it in the name of jesus.

Amen Amen Thank you everybody for watching. We really appreciate it. We love you.

Thank you for praying for us Thank you for your support And if you would please share the laborers podcast with your friends and family

And as always we want you to remember that jesus is king go live in the victory of christ

Go speak with the authority of christ and go share the gospel of christ.