Apologetics Session 28 - Pneumatology - Part 2

I just thank you for the things we've been able to learn and to share with each other and pray about. There's certainly a lot of healthy things going around. Certainly the COVID affecting so many people, but also now with the cancers.

And I was just personally a little disappointed in a way in my own mind, when I talked to John this morning, and he shared that things weren't going well. But he had a wonderful attitude, and I pray that you would just heal him.

And that with his wife, Jerry doesn't always go along with some of the things in his faith. And I just pray that he can just be a wonderful example to her and to their family of what it's like, what it is to be a Christian.

And to have your trust and faith in who you are and whether there's healing or not. But I personally pray for healing for him. And I thank you that Ivan could be here tonight too, my goodness. And that's a real item of prayer and thanks to you for helping to turn that corner as you described it.

And I pray that you would just strengthen him. And I thank you for those little notes that he sends out to us. Reminders of who you are and what you've done. And I just thank you for that inspirational little pieces that he sends out each week.

It's at least lately. And I don't know, I'm sure there's other people. I thank you for Bob next to me, who describing the way you healed him. And are taking care of him. I just pray that he would even get more complete healing from some of the ailments that he seems to have.

And again, it's just great to be here. We thank you that we can talk about you and learn more about you. And thank you for Drew, his willingness to study and to bring back to us what he's learned from you.

And through the Holy Spirit to teach us tonight. We thank you for being here with us. And we just look forward to what you have to tell us in the name of Jesus. Does anyone have an extra pen that I might borrow?

Who's that guy? So who are the new people now? That's right.

I haven't been here for a little while, right? Yeah. Maybe we should just go around the room, right?

Great. Go ahead, Mike. Hi, I'm Mike. We have been here four Sundays now. Okay, great. Terrific. Last day. It's Monday. Monday. Today's Monday. Last day. Well. Russell, what was your last day? I did the good thing, I think, too.

Russell, what was your last day? Good. I'm Jeff. Good job. We're gonna go with first names only. Go ahead, John. I'm Drew. I'm John. Dave.

Rick. Bob. Brian. Ivan. Rich. Bill. Bob. Kevin. Matt. Rod Chandler. Tim. Chad. Bob. And Bob. Manning the cameras. Thank you very much, Bob. I'm only one Rod. Awesome. So, I think I'm gonna give good news to somebody in the room right off the bat here.

We've kind of moved quickly through Christology and the first part of pneumatology, and I've been a little kind of chagrined about that, because it felt like maybe it should take a little bit more time.

So, our plan was to, tonight, finish pneumatology. We're gonna have a congregational meeting next Monday, and then Matt would jump into the creation evolution classes. But we're gonna give Matt an extra week, I think, because I don't think there's a chance that I'm gonna get through all of this tonight.

So, Matt likes that, he likes an extra week, because he's gonna drop a volume on us, I think, with the creation evolution arguments and information. Yeah. So, where we ended up with the Holy Spirit in the last class was, we talked about the person of the Holy Spirit, that he is a person, and we certainly talked about the fact that he is also God.

And that is very important to understand both of those things, because, again, the heresies abound in those areas, which think that he's a force or some kind of, you know, power that we can control. And we actually saw a video on that last week, which was very upsetting and blasphemous to the Lord.

But he is God Almighty, and he has special ministry in our lives. He has a special role in the Trinity. And we talked about, in the Old Testament, some of the ministries that he had and some of the things he did.

And we had gotten up to a point where we're gonna start talking about his role in the New Testament. So, we're right there right now. And where we're gonna start is basically at the Gospels. So, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, we talked about in the Old Testament, and now we're going to be right at Gospel Matthew chapter 1.

What do we see the Holy Spirit involved in first? Well, we're going to talk about, first, his role in the life of Jesus Christ. What was the Spirit's relationship with Jesus Christ? The Holy Spirit had a particularly intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus.

His humanity was completely dependent upon the Spirit for the things he did. Now, that seems like an incredible statement to make, because we know Jesus is also divine, he is God. And to think that Jesus was dependent on the Spirit kind of goes against, like, some of the things we think about.

But Jesus didn't exercise his divine prerogatives as a man. He, as a man, was led and he was filled by the Spirit. I'm gonna read this from, I think it is, sometimes I have my footpits lower, so I don't know who I quoted.

But I believe this is from Paul Little, he says this. No, I'm sorry, actually, this is from Desiring God, so that's John Piper. Yeah, John Piper. So many Christians assume that Christ was able to perform miracles because he was God, and it's certainly true that he is God.

However, if we argue, for example, that Christ's divine nature necessarily always acts through his human nature, thus enabling him to perform miracles, a serious problem emerges concerning the many texts that speak of the Holy Spirit's role in the life of Jesus.

Meaning that everything we see Jesus do, from the miracles to some of the things that he performed, casting out demons and so forth, that if it was always, well, he just decided to do it because he was God.

What we see in the life of Jesus is that he didn't do anything unless the Father told him to do so, and he was empowered by the Spirit to do so. So in the life of Jesus, let's see how the Holy Spirit acted and enabled and empowered Jesus.

So right off the bat, let's read, so I'll start with you, Mike, tonight. Let's read Luke chapter 1, verse 34 and 35. And Pastor, could you read Mark chapter 1, verses 9 and 11? So we're gonna bounce right through Jesus' life and see the activity of the Holy Spirit within Jesus' life.

You'll be my coach.

All right, so Luke 1, 34 and 35? Yes. All right, Mary said to the angel, how will this be since I am a virgin? And the angel answered her, the Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the most high will overshadow you.

Therefore, the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

So the Holy Spirit himself is the one who impregnated Mary with the seed of God, the seed that would be Jesus Christ. Hard to explain how that happened in a physical sense and even in the spiritual sense, but the Holy Spirit is the one who conceived Jesus Christ in the womb of Mary.

So Pastor, what does your verse say?

This is Mark chapter 1. In those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.

And a voice came from heaven, you are my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

Okay, so we see the Spirit coming upon Jesus. And now what we're gonna see is the Spirit moving in his life at various times. Jim, if you could read Luke chapter 4, verse 1. And John Morrow, could you read John chapter 3, verse 34?

And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness.

So he was full of the Spirit after being tempted in the, wait, say that again. He was full of the Spirit after being baptized, and then he was led into the wilderness. You got it. And so we see the Holy Spirit preparing him, not only for ministry, but also this great temptation he was about to face.

John, how about John 3, 34?

For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God. He gives the Spirit without measure.

And that's the Spirit upon Jesus. There's other verses in Mark that talk about the Spirit leading him, driving him into the wilderness even. And then, Bob Zellman, could you read us Luke chapter 4, verse 14?

Luke 4, 14. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit and reports about him spread throughout the countryside.

Okay, now that's after his temptation now. The Holy Spirit's upon him still. And I have to think about it theologically. Before his baptism, what was the role of the Spirit in his life? I'm not sure about that.

But we know that at his baptism, Jesus was empowered and filled with the Spirit, and that continued to happen throughout his ministry. So let's look at some of the things he did. Dave, could you read Matthew 12, 28?

And Ricky, I'll give you one in a minute. I'm gonna read this one. You're gonna go to Hebrews 9, 14.

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

So he's testifying at that particular time when he's casting out demons. And they were claiming that he was casting out demons by the power of Satan. He said, no, I'm doing this by the finger of God. And you need to understand that cuz the kingdom of God has come upon you.

And then in Acts 10, 38, I read this. It says, you know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power. And how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power. So as we see the ministry of Jesus, we see the Holy Spirit continually empowering him and acting within him as a man. And I think that's incredibly encouraging for us.

Because it tells us that a man of a pure heart, who yields his life to God's will and the power of the Holy Spirit, can accomplish incredible things. Can we face temptation? Can we perform acts of mercy and love the way Jesus did?

We may not be called to perform miracles of healing and other things like that. But when we look at Jesus yielding his life to the Spirit and seeing what the Spirit desired to do with his life, surrendering our lives to God's will is a very, very comfortable place to be.

Because we know that God is going to have tremendous plans for our life. And we're going to talk about what he does in our lives, the promises that he has made when we yield to him coming up. I don't think we're going to get that far today, because there's a lot of nuts and bolts we have to cover here.

But beyond the conception of Jesus and the empowering for ministry that the Holy Spirit empowered Jesus with, he also was the one who offered Jesus as an eternal sacrifice. Did I get, did I ask someone to read Hebrews yet?

Okay, Ricky, could you read Hebrews 9 .14? Sure.

Hebrews 9 .14. How much more then will the blood of Christ through the eternal spirit offer himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciousness from acts that lead to death. So that we may serve the living God.

Okay, it was the spirit himself who offered Jesus as a sacrifice. Now, we had gone through these verses before, and the father also offered Jesus. Jesus also offered himself, so it was one of those Trinitarian things that we saw.

But his sacrifice, again, was orchestrated by the spirit of God. Then, Jesus didn't stay in the grave, we know that. The great power that was displayed by his resurrection, again, God the Father raising him from the dead, Jesus saying he took up his own life again.

He raised up his own life again, and then in Romans 8, or we don't have to go there, I'll just mention this. Romans 1 .4 and Romans 8 .11 specifically says that the spirit raised Jesus from the dead. So the spirit was also involved in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

And then, there's an interesting verse here, as Jesus, after his resurrection. Bob, are you next, Bob Nichols? I guess. Okay, could you turn to Acts chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, Bob? So this is after Jesus is resurrecting, he's gonna make some, resurrection, he's gonna make some commands and statements to his apostles.

Acts 1, 1 and 2? Yeah. In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach, until the day he was taken up to heaven. After giving instructions through the Holy Spirit, the apostles he had chosen.

So even then, after his resurrection, the Holy Spirit is commanding through Jesus instructions to the apostles. So the Holy Spirit and Jesus, they were acquainted from eternity past. And we can't even imagine the oneness that the Father, the Son, the Spirit have.

But his ministry in Jesus' life was incredibly intimate. And he wants to have a relationship like that with us as well. So as we go through this, it's not just nuts and bolts stuff, like okay, this is what happened, this is what the Holy Spirit does.

He wants a relationship with us that is as intimate as he had with Jesus. And we can have that relationship with him, and we will get into that a lot more. Now, one of the questions we talked about last time was, and it might have actually been back in Christology, because we talked about the Nicene Creed from 325.

And then there was a correction, I wouldn't call it a correction, I would call it an enhancement in 381 at Constantinople. And the change was that the Spirit proceeded from the Father in 325. That was the statement made in the Creed.

But in 381, it says, the Spirit proceedeth from the Father and the Son. So when Jesus went to be with his Father, he said he would send the Spirit. Let's read a couple of those verses. I'm going to skip over some, but I'd like to read a couple here.

Brian, could you read John chapter 14, verse 16? And Ivan, could you read John chapter 14, verse 26? And Rich, you're going to be in John chapter 15, so could you get your fingers ready for that? John 15.

John 15, yeah.

Directly challenged, hang on. 14, 16, yeah. 16. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helpeth? Helpeth her? Helper, sorry, my glasses. Helping to be with you forever. What was that reference?

John 14, 16. 14, 16. So Jesus is going to ask the Father to send another, the helper. Ivan, what's your verse out there, John 15, 26?

Verse 26, it says, but the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

So the helper sent by the Father in the name of Jesus. And then, Rich, you're going to read John chapter 15, verse 26. 15, 26.

In that day, you will ask in my name, and I do not say that you will ask the Father on your behalf. Is that it? No, 26. Not 15, 26. What? 15, verse 26. Was that 25?

15, 26. Do you have your spectacles back there? Sometimes those letters start shrinking.

Yeah, the eyes are going bad. I'm making my spectacles.

Or sometimes I have a typo in my notes, and I have the wrong verse written down.

Okay, but when the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Okay, so who's sending the Spirit in that verse, Richie? Who's sending the Spirit? The Father. I was hoping for another answer on that verse. I'm sorry, wait a minute.

Jesus. When the helper comes, whom I, Jesus, will send.

Jesus is sending. So who's sending the Spirit? And then we say yes. Okay, so that was a good change in 381. We like that change.

Go ahead. Quick thing, I think, and I could be wrong about this, I think the and the son was added in 1054, the filioque. And there was more Holy Spirit language at Constantinople in 381, but that particular phrase was added in 1054.

Oh, that's what caused the east-west split. Yeah, that was it.

Okay. The filioque. I'll have to look that up and make a correction here in my notes here.

But they did add it, and that was the point of division between east and west.

Yeah, you would think that would be kind of an easy one, but... Right? So the west was right on that. Well, I'm glad we're on the west then. So listen, the Spirit came, the Spirit was sent. You guys, a lot of you guys have been engaged at some point in your lives, right?

Probably just about everyone in the room has been engaged. So is there anything special that happens during an engagement? There's some promises made, right? You're making a promise that you are going to be one with each other.

And the husband in particular usually gives a token of that promise, right? Now, does anybody get an engagement ring from their fiancée in this room? Did anyone give an engagement ring? Now, is that just...

You did? Dave, thanks a lot. That's good. I'm glad to see that.

Wouldn't everybody give an engagement ring to their...

Well, you have to think about it. It's like, why does the guy give the engagement ring and not the girl? Like, is that just tradition? Like, what is the concept there? Where is that coming from? And I'm going to plug my little thing in here.

Interesting. I didn't know you did that. I think... I don't know the customs in all cultures, but I believe there is something similar. And my screen just went out because of this, but it should come back.

Or maybe it won't. I think it won't go out there either. That's interesting. Is the TV still on? Yeah. Is that connection? Oh, you're right. That's probably the TV. Did the TV go off on me? Where's the thing?

That's funny how that works. I can see this. I can see this. There you go. There it goes. It's coming back on. Sorry about that. I guess if I let it sit for too long, it kind of goes dead on me. So, I need it here, though, too.

It's not giving it to me here. So, maybe somebody could read that because I can't see it right now. Just that part? Just the part with the picture.

Go ahead, Jim. You're ready to go. In ancient Jewish traditions, the bridegroom gave his betrothed bride a gift and a promise that he would come back for her. As a church's bridegroom, Jesus did something similar for us on the day of Pentecost.

The Holy Spirit is a seal marking us as belonging to him, and it is the down payment or pledge ensuring he'll come back and do all that he has promised.

I don't think I have the verses in here somewhere, but in Ephesians chapter 1, the Holy Spirit is called the Holy Spirit of promise, that he is a pledge. And I believe there's also verses about him being a pledge to us in 2 Corinthians, Figures chapter 1 and chapter 2.

But I'm going to have to gain control of my screen again because I've got to keep going here. I'm not sure why my screen is dying. Try closing it and opening it again. Yeah, now I'm in trouble. Oh, I think I just can power my computer off.

Let's see how good your memory is. Yeah, that's strange. I think it went to sleep on me. I hate it when the computers do that. Yeah, I wish I could say I had this memorized, but I had a tough time getting to this point because there's been so much going on lately with everything, with just a lot of stuff.

But anyway, Jesus has gone away. And he sent his Spirit. The promise is he's going to come back for his bride. And as much as, gentlemen, we would like to say we will keep our words when we say that we are going to be one with our wives and be in union with her for the rest of our lives, some of us, you know, with man involved, it's a very difficult situation.

But with the Lord Jesus and his Spirit involved, this is going to happen. And he's going to come back for his bride. And the Holy Spirit being within each one of us, and we're going to talk about his indwelling here in a second, he is coming back, and that pledge that we have is the Spirit within us.

We're going to be one with him forever. And we're looking forward to that. And it's not like he's left us alone either. We're going to talk about that in a minute, too. So we know the Lord sent his Spirit.

What does his Spirit do now in the lives of men as his Spirit now is active in the New Testament? Well, we're going to talk about unbelievers first because there is activity that the Lord has with unbelievers.

We know the verse in John 16 that says that he's going to convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment. We know that that comes upon unbelievers. We know that they know certain things are going on because the Spirit of God is working within them.

And sometimes you think, well, you know, an unbeliever doesn't have a ministry or a testimony of the Holy Spirit because they're not a believer. They don't know the Spirit. But the Spirit is working in their hearts.

Let's read a couple verses beyond that one about convicting of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Let us read—well, let's just read Acts 7 .51. And that will be—Kevin, could you read that for us? Turn to Acts 7 .51.

While Kevin's going there, though, remember a minute ago when we said that Jesus was casting out demons by the finger of God, by the Spirit of God, in Matthew chapter 12. And the religious leaders accused him of casting out demons by the power of Satan.

And Jesus said to them, Any blasphemy against the Son of Man would be forgiven, but not a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit was testifying to them that this kingdom of God was right in their midst, right upon them, and that Jesus was doing these miracles by the power of God.

But yet they resisted the Holy Spirit. And they rejected and blasphemed the Holy Spirit in rejecting the authenticity of what Jesus was doing. So they had the testimony of the Spirit as He was working.

They didn't accept it, but they did have that testimony. Kevin, what does Acts 7 .51 say?

It says, You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in hearts and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit, as your fathers did, so do you.

Unbelievers resisting the Holy Spirit. This is the religious leaders again, who are going to stun Stephen in a few minutes. And they obviously rejected Jesus Christ. But he also goes back, he talks about the Spirit working in the fathers.

Because he went through the whole history of Israel. He's talking about Moses and the things that were done back in the Old Testament. He said the Holy Spirit was there testifying to you then too. But you're just like your fathers, stiff-necked, not accepting the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

So the Holy Spirit is gracious in a sense that He gives a testimony in this world of God's power and His authority and His divine capabilities. And sin and righteousness and judgment. That all these things are coming.

And yet men can reject that testimony of the Spirit in their lives. Now, I'm not going to get into the sovereignty issue right now. I'm just saying that the Spirit does testify to the hearts of the unbeliever.

Now, the pastor just went through 2 Thessalonians. And let's read Bob Bell. Could you read 2 Thessalonians 2, 6, and 7?

2 Thessalonians 2, 6, and 7.

Okay, hold on. And while I'm looking that up, you can write my name down as Bob Ball.

Oh, Bob Ball. Oh my goodness, I think I have Bell somewhere squirreled away. You can do it. Thank you for that.

2 Thessalonians. I'm sorry. I've got small Bible. Okay. 2, 6, and 7. 6 says,. And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work.

But the one who will now hold it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

So, with the personal pronoun he there, and the pastor talked about this, that it's not just, some people think it's the church, the influence of the church. And to some degree that's true, because the Holy Spirit's acting through his church to be a preservative and a light in the world that we're living in.

But he says that there's going to be a time when he who restraineth is going to be taken out of the way. In a sense, the Holy Spirit is preserving this world right now. In God's great patience, he is allowing the disobedience of men to continue, because he's still calling people into his kingdom.

But there's going to be a time when the Holy Spirit's restraining force is going to be removed. And really at that point, all evil is going to be let loose on this world. And it's not just the evil of men's hearts, like in the time of Noah, when everyone's thoughts were evil continually.

But it's also going to be demonic forces. God is still sovereign, and he's going to oversee his world. But he's going to allow the demonic forces at this point to have reign to some degree over this tribulation period that's going to come on this world.

When we read in the Old Testament, when we read Michael the archangel making a stance against the demonic forces, and we read some of the angels in principalities basically doing battle behind the scenes in the spiritual realm, that God's restraining hand and the power of the Spirit is going to be taken off.

And at that point, this world is going to be turned over to those things. So we can very much thank the Lord for his power and his restraining force right now. Because the only thing that's preventing this world from totally falling apart is that restraining power that he's exercising.

And we can be very, very thankful for that. So that, you know, and that's common grace. That's grace that's given to everybody. Because we deserve to be turned over. But the Holy Spirit, by his grace, is restraining for a day of judgment.

So there is a ministry to the unbeliever. And that's certainly part of it in the Spirit. How about the believer? This is where it's going to get real long. How many things does the Holy Spirit do in our lives?

Oh my goodness. We're going to cover just a few of them tonight. And the order that they go in maybe isn't that important. Because so many things happen to the believer at the moment of conversion. And we're going to talk about a lot of them.

But the first one I want to talk about is illumination. So the Holy Spirit provides illumination in a person's heart that they would understand God's message. So let's turn. Who's up next? Is this you, Bill?

Can you turn to 1 Corinthians 2, verses 10 through 14? I really would like Bill to read this whole thing because it's a really vital section to understand the Spirit's ministry in a heart that will be illumined by the Lord's Word.

These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit judges everything, even the depth of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Keep going. I forgot. To 14, Bill. Well, the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

The spiritual person judges all things but is himself to be judged by no one. For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Amen.

This is probably a familiar section. But who do we have to thank for an understanding of God's Word? The Holy Spirit. A person who does not have the Spirit, how do they view the Word of God? There's folly.

Foolishness. It's just words on a page to them. It doesn't mean anything. And they can read the same thing that you and I would read, right? Like they can read that Jesus was raised from the dead and to some degree, intellectually, maybe even give an assent to that, say, yeah, yeah, I kind of believe that, yeah.

But it doesn't mean anything to them. And in many cases, it's not even an understanding. They don't even understand what the Scripture itself says. I'm going to quote something from John Calvin that he said about the Holy Spirit.

And I think this is R .C. Sproul's paraphrase of John Calvin. He said this. He said, The Holy Spirit does not give the Christian new proofs in Scripture that are unavailable to anyone else. Nor does he impart new arguments or knowledge about the Scripture that is unavailable to the unregenerate person.

But the Spirit does enable the Christian to believe all the objective evidences we have discussed thus far. And in the book I quoted from, he did have a lot of arguments. Nonbelievers can read the same Bible.

They can grapple with the same arguments and still lack certainty. The supernatural certainty that comes only by the supernatural ministry of the Holy Spirit is given to believers. Those who do not believe, says the Bible, are at enmity with God.

They are hostile to his law and would refuse the risen Christ even if he were standing right before them. What the Holy Spirit accomplishes then is a breaking down of the barriers in our mind and the hostility of our hearts, thereby enabling us to surrender to the truth of God's Word.

The Spirit does not move us to believe against the evidence, but surrender to the evidence that is there. So that's what John Calvin said. And very accurate to the way the Lord works in our lives, the Holy Spirit works in our lives.

Because all of us, at some point, we're there. Go ahead, Ivan.

Yeah, and that goes back to the old argument of subjective truth versus objective truth, which is something that, Jeff, you have to go through every Thursday when he goes to Princeton and he's evangelizing, and people have their truth.

They have subjective truth and they believe their own truth, what the Bible would say, but not the objective truth of what actually is happening to the Holy Spirit. And that's a concept that you have to break through with them in terms of understanding the differences in there and trying to get common ground in having that conversation with them about that.

Because in their own mind, they believe their own truth in what's going on.

And the unbeliever can read the exact same thing as it says that we read, and they come to a whole different just mindset of it. And sometimes it doesn't make any sense. Sometimes it just doesn't mean that much.

Like when Jesus would say something like, come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden. And that penetrates our hearts. That penetrates us as believers, knowing that the Lord has to care for us. Rich, did you want to say something?

Yeah, the Lord's got a word for them in Corinthians 1 .18, where he says, For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to those who have received it is the power of God. It's folly to those who are perishing.

I've even had a couple guys say, it's just uninteresting. Like, I'm just not interested, even as you show those very words to them.

Oh, yeah, and I don't remember if you guys remember the author. Her name was Anne Rice. She was popular for a while because she had a lot of vampire books. You remember her? Yeah. She was on Larry King Live, and Larry King was interviewing her.

And for some reason, Larry got into spiritual things with her, obviously maybe because of the darkness of her books. But she said, well, one thing I don't understand at all is why Christianity is so infatuated with this bloody, disgusting, human sacrifice issue that supposedly got...

And she was disgusted by the idea of the cross and Jesus giving his life up for humanity. And to think, well, have you read your books lately? You know, just totally missing the boat on the beauty of what God has accomplished and the necessity of it, and yet not seeing her own folly in what she's created as monstrosities and really very vulgar things.

Blinded. Blinded. Blinded. It's amazing. And you see things like that in the world. And I'll tell you one thing. It's just amazing because by grace, we're all sitting here by God's grace, that he has allowed us to see these things, which means where is boasting?

There's nothing to boast of.

Now, go ahead, Rod. Did you want to say something? Yeah, I think to more substantiate what you were saying is to look at what Christ did. And we don't have to know how many miracles he did, but what stands out in my mind is everybody knew that Lazarus was dead.

They knew he was dead. And when Jesus Christ was dead, they went and told the Pharisees, and the first thing they said, he's doing all these miracles. We have to get rid of him. We have to kill him. And so even when Christ was doing the miracles, you still saw the same thing.

And where you stand on eschatology, I don't know, but if you stood the fact that there's going to be a thousand-year reign of Christ on this earth, and then Satan's going to be loosed again, and you're going to find all the people who were born during that time are going to go against them and go against Christ, even when he's ruling from Jerusalem for a thousand years.

So there's that thing in us that we are dead in our trespasses and sins. We are born dead, and we have to be born again. We have to have that second birth. And the emphasis of that is so important for me to deal with an unbeliever with compassion and love for that person because I know I have to give them the gospel, and it's up to God to turn that.