Mighty Oaks Foundation and Identity

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00:00

What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:07

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:14

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

00:22

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke,

00:28

Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow and move your heart so you will never be the same again.

01:01

What is up, everyone? Welcome back to Apologia Radio. We are slightly shorthanded today.

01:10

I'm going to actually start off with the verse, which I meant to start with. I was going to ask you about the verse.

01:16

We're just going to roll with it. It's one of those days. It's fine. 2 Corinthians 5 .17 says,

01:24

Hi, Joy.

01:31

Hello. How are you? Good. How are you doing? I'm good. We're all good here. Pastor Jeff is somewhere on his way to South Carolina right now.

01:42

I don't even know where he's at. Somewhere. He might even be in the air. He might be at an airport somewhere.

01:48

I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. He's on his way to South Carolina for a rally this weekend.

01:54

We've announced this for a while, but we do have an Abortion Now slash Action for Life rally in Columbia, South Carolina, at the

02:02

Capitol. I believe it's Saturday. I should probably know that. Which is Saturday, right? Which is Saturday. See, I did know.

02:09

That is Saturday. If you're in the area at all, please come support us. Support the bill we've got going on there to criminalize abortion immediately.

02:21

It's just Joy and I today. Our friends are gone. Our friends are all gone. I tried to get

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Pastor Zach on again, but he had better things to do. Pastoral things, which I come first.

02:33

Yeah, he's meeting with some Jaeger. So, I don't know what about.

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And it's not summer either. Not just some Jaeger. Not some Jaeger.

02:47

Yeah, not some Jaeger. Let's clarify that. Anywho, it's gonna be a fun show today.

02:56

I am very, very excited about our guest today. So, I'm gonna go ahead and introduce him.

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And then I'm gonna tell the story of how this all came together. Because to me, it's fascinating.

03:08

It may not be to you. Our guest today is Jeremy Stahlnecker. Hey, brother.

03:13

Welcome to the show. I'm glad to have you on. Thanks. Great to be with you guys. So, what is your actual position at Mighty Oaks?

03:22

I'm the executive director. I've been a lot of different things. But I run our programs and our administration.

03:29

Sweet. So, I'm gonna let him explain what Mighty Oaks is in a minute. So, kind of a little history to the show.

03:38

When were you first on CrossPolitik? Oh, man. Probably three years ago. That's what

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I was thinking. It's been a while. So, I actually heard the episode that he was on. Jeremy was on CrossPolitik about three years ago.

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And I was like, oh, man. I love what this guy's saying. I gotta get him on. So, Gabe Wrench and I have been going back and forth for three years.

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And he keeps telling me, hey, man. You gotta get Jeremy on. And I was like, yeah, I know. I want to. It's just a matter of scheduling shows and stuff.

04:08

So, he's been... This last fall, he was really, really pushing me. So, kind of how this went down is, ever since we got connected with the

04:18

Navy SEALs in September, I have gone down this... I mentioned this last week, but I've gone down this rabbit hole of watching interviews with Navy SEALs, which

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I love. It's a rabbit hole, though. Some of them are like five and a half hours long. And three days later,

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I'm still on the same interview. But I just love them. I love them. They just get me all kind of fired up.

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And I'm going to talk about a theme later on that I pulled from those interviews. So, I guess it was about the second week of January.

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Our whole church got on the crud. And so, for like four or five days,

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I just literally did nothing but sit in my bed and watch Navy SEAL interviews. When I say

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I went down the rabbit hole, I mean I went full on. You really did. I dove in, yep. Head first.

05:12

You dove into the trenches? Maybe that's more appropriate. Well, I mean, SEALs are in the water, too. Right. Do they go in rabbit holes?

05:20

I don't know. That's a good question. That's a very good question. I guess if they had to.

05:27

Yeah, I mean, they'd go down all kinds of holes. No, I don't do rabbit holes. Yeah. I'll do a hole in Afghanistan from ISIS, but not a rabbit hole.

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So, I watched the BUDS 234 documentary for probably the fourth time when

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I was sick. And I think that came out in 2001 or something. I don't even know what that is.

05:56

So, BUDS is the Basic Underwater Demolition School for SEALs.

06:03

Oh, okay. So, that's like the entry level program they have to go into to qualify to be a

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SEAL. So, it's a documentary about that. Yeah. So, it goes through the whole 10 weeks or something.

06:14

I love it. I mean, like I said, this was like my fourth time, I think. So, one of the main guys that they focus on,

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I mean, this was like a real BUDS class. One of the guys that they focus on, his name is

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Luis Rivera. And so, I'm watching through here. And like I said, he's one of the main guys throughout the thing.

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And then at the end, I get done watching it again. And then I see this interview pop up on YouTube with Luis Rivera and Mike Glover.

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Actually, I think he was a Green Beret. But he's got a podcast and all this stuff. So, I'm watching this.

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And it's at the Mighty Oaks Fund. Actually, it's probably in that same spot. I think it was, actually. Yeah, I think it was.

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And so, I'm watching it. And while I'm watching it, I'm like, man, this guy sounds like a

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Christian. Everything he's saying, he sounds like a Christian. And I'm getting all excited. And I'm like, why do

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I know the name Mighty Oaks? I just keep like, that sounds so familiar to me. And then all of a sudden, everything clicked.

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And I was like, oh my gosh, that's right. Mighty Oaks is Jeremy. Gabe's been trying to hook me up with them. And sure enough,

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Luis Rivera is a Christian. And I believe he came to Christ through Mighty Oaks and works for them now. And so, that's kind of the background to all this.

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So, I literally, when all that clicked, I immediately texted Gabe Wrench and was like, I need to make this happen.

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So, I think Jeremy and I talked the next day or something. It was pretty quickly. I think we had already been on a text thread, actually.

07:44

Yeah, we had been connected somehow, but then we got on the phone. So, that kind of brings us to how we got this show going.

07:52

So, Jeremy, I'm just going to let you, right now, just tell everyone about Mighty Oaks, what you do with them, what the program does, and then we'll go from there.

08:00

Yeah, awesome. No, I appreciate it. Luis is awesome. If you haven't gone and watched those interviews, you need to check those out.

08:06

Luis is, I think we're going to talk about identity later. Yeah. He's a guy who really embodies lost identity and then finding identity in Christ.

08:14

So, it's an awesome story. Yeah, Mighty Oaks Foundation, we were founded at the end of 2011, really to help those veterans who have transitioned out of the military.

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You remember 2011, kind of the height of the war in Afghanistan, still dealing with things in Iraq.

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We had a lot of folks coming home and just absolutely lost. Veteran suicide rates were extremely high.

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And our founder, Chad Robichaud, force recon guy, did eight combat tours in Afghanistan, came home a mess.

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You can find videos about his testimony as well online. But in the process of that, he was introduced to a

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Christian guy who led him to Christ and then mentored him in biblical manhood, what it means to be a man.

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And he would tell you that in the process of that, he was able to move beyond the post -traumatic stress and the trauma and so many of these things that had controlled his life, just about ended his marriage.

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And when he went through all of that personally, he looked around and said, why isn't anyone sharing this with other veterans who were coming home?

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And so it's actually pretty interesting. Similar to Jeff, Chad has a background in mixed martial arts, fought in some pretty big promotions.

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He is a Brazilian jiu -jitsu black belt. He's been training jiu -jitsu for 35 years or something. So he had a jiu -jitsu school in Houston, closed the school down, moved to Colorado, invited some veterans to come up and spend some time with them and started teaching some of the principles that he had learned.

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He and I connected at that time. He had military background, of course, and because of his fighting and the rest of it, a lot of veterans wanted to come and be a part of what he was a part of.

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I was pastoring at the time. I had been in the Marine Corps. I was in Iraq in 2003, transitioned out of the

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Marine Corps, became a pastor. And Chad and I met at kind of the right time. He said, hey, why don't you come help me figure out how to put a program together?

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And that's what we did. We've been doing that ever since. And I could spend a lot of time talking about what we do, but in a nutshell, we help men and women who either are veterans, active duty service members, now more and more from the first responder community, police and fire, help them to understand how to move beyond the trauma in their lives.

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And that could be combat trauma. It could be trauma related to their services, police officers, firefighters.

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It may be family trauma. A lot of the folks that attend our programs are really dealing with things that started as children, whether it's sexual abuse, sexual trauma, some of those things, family traumas.

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And then transitioning out of the military, a loss of identity, bad decisions on the other side of that.

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And so we help them understand that what they've been through, what they've done, what they've experienced does not define who they are.

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And we do that by bringing them to one of our facilities. We have four facilities across the country.

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They'll spend a week with us. And instead of approaching PTSD and those things from a clinical perspective, which they all have access to clinical help, we approach that from a biblical perspective.

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What does the Bible say about how we were created? Is there a creator? And if there is, what does that mean for our lives?

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How can we move forward with purpose and meaning? And man, it's been crazy. We've had just over 4 ,000 people attend one of those week -long programs.

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And just the change that happens. And so many of the folks who attend, people think faith -based, well, that must mean that everyone who comes is a

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Christian. Most people are not. In fact, most of them end up at one of our sessions, one of our programs, because they've tried everything else and have nowhere else to go.

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And so they may hate God. They may not believe in God. They may have had bad experience with church or religion or however they would say that in the past.

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But they need help, and they don't know what else to do, so they end up with us. And it's very much peer -to -peer.

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We have a room full of people similar to them, so that facade, that wall that people put up, that is, you don't know what it's like to be me, to have experienced what

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I've experienced, don't talk to me. A lot of veterans are kind of that way. They're now in a room where everyone has experienced something similar.

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All of our instructors have come through our program. They've also then gone through our leadership training process. It takes about a year.

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And so it's very much peer -to -peer. It's very much, I don't have it all figured out, but I'm a little further down the road than you are, and I want to help you take the first steps to move forward.

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And God's blessed, and we've seen some incredible things happen. And then beyond that, we've written a number of books and put a lot of resources together.

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We do a lot of video stuff and testimonials, that kind of thing, to help. And then speak to active -duty units and veterans conferences.

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We've spoken to probably close to 200 ,000 people over the last 10 years or so in those conference settings, talking about trauma, what it is, what it isn't, spiritual resiliency, how to move forward, and those kind of things.

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So in a nutshell, that's it. And God's been very good to us, and we meet people like Luis, as you mentioned, and so many others.

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Amazing. Praise God for that. What is the meaning behind Mighty Oaks? Yeah, so in Isaiah 61, it's a paraphrase, but it talks about those who are in the ashes becoming oaks of righteousness or trees of righteousness.

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And Chad would tell you, when he and his wife, Kathy, were talking about what to call this thing they wanted to do, they looked at their own lives and said, really, we were in a burning heap, and God has turned that into something, and we would like to see that happen with others.

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Awesome. Yeah, it's really a picture of what God can do in a life that seems hopeless and broken. Very, very cool.

13:49

Yeah. So is this program free, or does it cost something, or how does that work?

13:54

Yeah, so again, we've been blessed, and God's opened incredible doors and great connections and relationships, so we're able to provide the program absolutely free.

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It doesn't cost anything to attend. And we made a decision a long time ago. Some people pushed back on it. We made a decision a long time ago.

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The people that we want to help are people who probably don't want to attend a program like ours, so we're going to remove every barrier.

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All they need is a week, so we pay for travel. We cover everything. There is zero cost to the person who attends.

14:23

Amazing. And where are the four locations at? Do you have a place? Yeah, we have a place in kind of our flagship, if you will, is in Northern Central California, depending.

14:33

If you're from California, you'll call it Central California, but up in the San Luis Obispo area, Paso Robles, we have a ranch there that we use.

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Then in Junction, Texas, which is about an hour outside of San Antonio, we have a facility. There's a place in the town of Zanesville, Ohio.

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I don't know if you know Ohio, but it's outside of Columbus, Ohio. Okay. And then one place in Haymarket, Virginia, Northern Virginia.

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Okay. And from time to time, we'll do kind of like one -off programs. You know, there will be a facility that opens, and we'll go and do a program there.

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But for the most part, it's those four locations. And part of the reason, and again, this is God, part of the reason we're able to cover the cost of the programs and all of those things is because each one of those locations allows us to have as many weeks of programming as we'd like to at those locations.

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And they're incredible. Go on our website. You can see pictures. At no cost to us. So we don't pay to use the facility.

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In most cases, we also don't pay for the food during the week, and the food's incredible. Each one of those, the owners of those properties have just said, we want

15:34

God to use it, and if God can use it, then we'll pay for it. Amazing. So, yeah, it's been incredible.

15:40

And you're in Texas, correct? I am based in Southern California. Our headquarters is in the woodlands right outside of Houston, Texas.

15:48

Oh, okay, gotcha. But we're kind of spread out all over the place. We've got people everywhere. Gotcha. So, I mean, obviously you are able to make this happen through donations.

15:58

So how does fundraising work for you guys? Yeah, I mean, the simplest thing is people find out about us.

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They go to our website, and there's a place to give on there. We have many, many monthly supporters, people who give $25, give $20, give what they can.

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And then we've had some larger donors come along who have underwritten entire weeks of programs and a lot of other things.

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So we're always out raising money, and that's funny. People, they kind of talk bad about raising money and look down on that.

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But what that enables us to do is then offer the program to as many men and women that would like to attend at no cost, again, for the program or travel.

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And so it's just the generosity of people. We're in a good time in America as it relates to veterans.

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We're not in the Vietnam era. We're not in the 80s where things were kind of a mess in the military and the public's perception of that.

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We're living at a time where people really do appreciate the military, and they're putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

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And that's been an incredible blessing to so many people. Well, hey, I mean, we understand those trials. I mean, that's the same thing we try to do with an abortion now is absolutely funded.

17:12

So everything we do is free. Literally the same thing you said is we don't want there to be any barriers or hindrances to someone going out and saving babies.

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So we make sure it's completely covered, all of our travels, to all these rallies. Everything is covered by donations.

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And that's awesome. And I'll say to your point, there are people who would be skeptical about that or would push back on that.

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And there are a lot of nonprofits and churches and organizations that have not done us any favors in that regard. But when you're looking at churches, organizations who are doing something, get behind them financially.

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God puts those resources in our hands so that we can steward them. And those resources should steward them.

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We believe we're saving lives. Certainly end abortion now is saving lives. And there's no better place to put those financial resources that God's given to you.

17:59

Amen. I appreciate that. We have a couple guys, ex -Marines, they were actually wanting to start.

18:04

They had a whole business plan, wanting to start something similar to what you guys are doing. So they are going to be specifically very excited about this episode.

18:13

But just curious, just so people listening know, can you tell me what the average cost per person is for one of these weeks?

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When people are giving, what does it look like? When we ask for scholarships, a lot of our fundraising is based on a scholarship.

18:32

This is what it costs to get one person through the program. It's about $2 ,500 a person per week. And, again, that's the program, that's the food, that's the travel, that's the staff that we have there.

18:42

About $2 ,500 a week. So we round it. $2 ,500, more or less. But that's about right.

18:48

Well, I mean, that's totally reasonable. That sounds pretty bare -boned. Including travel.

18:54

Yeah, that's pretty awesome. So one question I have, because before we get too far into this, watching all these

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SEAL interviews, one of the questions they always ask, because you said you were in Iraq 2003. So 9 -11, did that cause you to go into the

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Marines, or were you already in? No, I was already commissioned. In fact, I was on the rifle range.

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I think it's a funny story. No one ever laughs when I tell it, but I think it's funny, so I'll tell it anyhow. So I was an infantry officer.

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I served with 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, for your Marine listeners. And I was on the rifle range, qualifying.

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Our whole battalion was qualifying. And we got the news that everything had happened in New York.

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So we're out there doing this thing. One of the Marines walked up to me and said, Hey, sir, what is this going to mean for us?

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And I was 24 at the time, so clearly I knew about everything geopolitically and so forth.

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And so I have a criminal justice degree after all, so I have a pretty deep knowledge of these things. And so I said,

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Don't worry about it. Nothing's going to happen. This will be a special operations thing, strategic strikes.

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And coming out of the 90s, that's how we responded to things, right? And so this won't mean anything for us. About a year later, we're standing in Kuwait, getting ready to cross the border into Iraq.

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That Marine walked by. He's like, Nothing, huh? This is kind of like, Yeah, well, I guess I was wrong about that. Were you at Pendleton?

20:20

I was at Camp Pendleton, yeah. Yeah, and I still live about 45 minutes from there now. Okay. Yeah, so I was in the

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Marine Corps already. I went into the Marine Corps for, I don't know, patriotic reasons.

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My dad was actually a pastor, started a church. I grew up in a very patriotic, very conservative home and knew

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I didn't want to be in ministry because the one thing you know when your parents are in ministry is that you don't want to be in ministry.

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That was the conclusion I came to. You're old PK. But here I am. And so I pastored, and I've done a lot of other things since then, but the

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Marine Corps was my path. How long did you serve? I went in in 1996 and left in July of 2003.

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I had some reserve time on the other side of that, but that was basically my time. Right on. Well, thank you for your service.

21:08

Those PKs are really a different breed. I was just trying to explain that to someone today. I know a few of those. I'm not personally a

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PK, but I know quite a few PKs. I also was going to say before we get too far into the episode,

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I have a little on my whiteboard in my kitchen. I say this to my daughter all the time, but it's like a little anonymous poem.

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It goes, If you think your job is small or your rewards are few, remember that a mighty oak was once a nut like you.

21:37

There you go. You guys should steal that and use that for your book. I definitely wanted to call a lot of our students nuts.

21:42

That works, I guess. It works on many levels. That was awesome. You didn't even plan that, did you?

21:48

No. Not at all. It was like you planned it. Very, very cool. I want to talk about identity here, but one thing watching a lot of these interviews with the

22:02

SEALs and ex -SEALs, I should say, and Green Berets, all these Special Forces guys, and this is going to get right into what you guys do, so I know

22:14

I'm preaching to the choir, but one thing I took away from it is these guys are trained killers and they're the best at what they do.

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Their identity is that. For however many years they're in, and they are completely sold out to this.

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This is what they do. That's where they find their identity is in that, and so when a lot of these guys retire and get out, their identity that they've spent so many years working towards now is kind of obsolete, and no one needs trained killers working at Home Depot or wherever.

22:58

Right. Well, and the culture is different, especially when you're deployed or even stationed or training or whatever.

23:05

You're in a very particular kind of culture, and then you kind of come back to,

23:11

I guess, the real world, air quotes there. Yeah, exactly. So a lot of these guys

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I'm watching, I'm just in awe over their accomplishments in the military, and then a lot of them end up divorced.

23:27

A lot of them are suicidal. A lot of them have had suicide attempts because their identity is not in Christ, which we're going to get into.

23:35

And so I just kept noticing a theme with a lot of these guys, and I was like, man,

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I'm kind of like a giddy little schoolboy, excited to hear their stories and stuff, and then you get to that point, and it's like, man, they just need

23:51

Jesus. They just need Jesus, which is totally what you guys are doing, and that's why I'm so excited. So I'm going to let you jump in there and just kind of run with it, and then

24:00

I'll jump in later. Yeah, so the identity piece is huge.

24:05

We could talk about post -traumatic stress. We could talk about post -traumatic stress disorder.

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Is it a disorder? We could have all of those discussions, but I'll tell you a lot of the folks who attend our programs, whether it's the service member or the spouse, and the spouses so often find their identity in being the spouse of a service member, if that service member has been injured somehow, we see spouses who find their identity in being the caregiver.

24:33

That's their whole identity. They're not the mom and the wife now. They're a caregiver, and if you take that away from them, there are real problems to their identity because that's what they're wrapped up in, and having a proper view of who you are changes your ability to deal with whatever the world might throw at you, whatever trauma, whatever difficulty, whatever trial, whatever experience you've had, and that's a huge issue.

25:00

Most of the people, when you boil it down, who attend our program, and I don't want to get into a fight with anybody over post -traumatic stress or not or whatever.

25:09

Yeah, sure. We could have that conversation too, but most of the people who attend our program, although they've endured trauma, they've experienced some difficult things in their lives or because of their service, what they're actually struggling with is the fact that they're no longer wearing the uniform, carrying the rank, doing the job.

25:27

They find themselves in an unknown world, whether they serve for four years or 20 years, 30 years.

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It doesn't matter. They find themselves in a place that they just can't relate to, and people don't just respect them because they walked into a room.

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Who am I? What do I do? What does this mean? And so it would be best if you could go into the military, and Christian young people do, go into the military, understanding that your identity is not in a job.

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It's not in a rank. It's not in a uniform. It's not in a place that you've been. It's not in that stuff. Your identity is found in Christ.

26:05

You were created by God for a purpose. Sin separated us from God. We're reconciled back to God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, his death and his resurrection.

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We are made a new creation in Christ. It's all about Jesus. And when we understand that our identity is in Jesus, that we were created then,

26:25

Revelation 411, to give glory to God, that's the whole purpose, then you may love your job or hate your job, but that doesn't change your own perception of who you are, how valuable you are, how much you have to contribute, et cetera.

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And so for us, we talk about all of this, you know, first in very broad terms and then in very specific terms.

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If there is a God, right? This is a big question, right? If there is a God, and we believe there is.

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So this is day one of our program. This is day, like, hour one of our program. If there's a God and we believe there is, then there is design.

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If there's design, then we should understand what that design is and how it applies to us as individuals.

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And if we'll learn to align our lives, the things that we do, the thoughts that we think, you know, the actions of our lives, if we'll align to that created purpose, then we can move forward with meaning, with purpose, with value.

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Having our identity in Him instead of in the other stuff that's happened in our lives. That's very simple.

27:31

We spent a week breaking that down. But that's for anyone. You know, as a pastor,

27:37

I would talk to parents whose kids moved out of the house. They say that the time where divorce happens most often is either within the first two years of marriage or the first two years after the last child leaves the house.

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Well, why is that? Because the identity has shifted. The identity has changed. As parents, my identity is wrapped up in my kids.

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They're gone. Who am I now? If your identity is in Christ, then you continue to move forward in spite of that.

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Jobs, layoffs, pandemics, whatever. If your identity is in Christ, these things may be inconvenient.

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They may be hard to deal with. They may have, you know, very real ramifications in our lives. I wouldn't downplay any of those things, particularly, you know, deep traumas and childhood traumas and those kind of things.

28:20

But that's not who you are. You're not that anymore. You are a new creation in Christ, and God has a great plan for you as a new creation in Christ.

28:30

Amen. Man, I love that so much. I mean, that's the basis of a lot of our addiction stuff that we've done, ministry addicts and stuff.

28:38

It's the same basic principles. One thing that where I'm at right now, again, just since this fall, getting to know a lot of guys that are still in service, you know, talking to guys that have come out and stuff, like I am completely, like, amazed and impressed and encouraged by the guys that have been in for a long time and still the guys that are

29:07

Christians, I mean, and their identity is Christ. Like, they've been able to maintain that. And, like, knowing the sort of things that I know now, like, it's just I'm totally praising

29:18

God for that. So I was going to ask you, I mean, it seems like you were able to maintain your identity in Christ through your time in the service.

29:25

So, like, just, like, you got any, like, stories or anything like that that, you know, some maybe obstacles you had or, like, trials you went through where you were, like, really, like, having to fight to maintain that?

29:38

So what's crazy is maintaining your identity in Christ. If you are a Christian, your identity is in Christ, right?

29:45

So that's a settled fact. Now, whether or not you always understand that is the hard part.

29:52

I love the contrast between Romans 7 and Romans 8 where Paul in Romans 7 cries out, a wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death?

30:00

And then in Romans 8, chapter 1, there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. So, you know, that contrast.

30:06

And I think all of us kind of play back and forth in that, if we're honest. Two kind of answers to your question.

30:15

One, I would say to the Christian in the military. For me, serving in the military as a Christian, I was raised in a

30:20

Christian home. That doesn't, you know, necessarily mean you're going to live right and be right. But I had parents that helped me to understand how to make good decisions.

30:28

I had good influences in my life. And I made some decisions before I went into the military that helped me.

30:34

And I tell people a lot, when you go into the military as a Christian, there's a very clear line. So people say it's so hard.

30:41

It's not any harder than you make it. There's a pretty clear line. This is what Christians do, and this is what people who aren't

30:47

Christians do. And so, you know, we talk about persecution and those things. Not everyone's going to love you for being a

30:52

Christian. People don't always like it when you walk out. I get all of that. But for me, you know, in spite of people making fun of me, et cetera, those kind of things, it wasn't hard.

31:04

Now, the key is you have to be good at your job. So if you're good at your job and you stand on Christian values and principles, people will learn to respect that.

31:13

So living and working in the military as a Christian, you know,

31:20

I didn't struggle with that. I will tell you, though, and this is back to the identity thing, when

31:25

I left the Marine Corps, I was in Iraq leading Marines in combat. We were the

31:31

Marine Infantry Battalion that breached the berm into Iraq. The first KIA of the war was one of our lieutenants.

31:38

The Battle of Baghdad on April 10th, that was our battalion. We were ambushed going into Baghdad in the middle of the night.

31:44

We had over 100 casualties. I mean, this was what I was doing. And then a month later,

31:51

I was out of the Marine Corps working on a church staff. And I could tell you that whole story of how that all happened, how that all went down, but I had already made a decision to get out.

32:01

Nothing was going to happen. The war was going to end quickly, and then we ended up in Iraq. If you recall, in 2003 or 2002, we were in Afghanistan.

32:10

Iraq was kind of like a sideshow. And then our battalion at the last minute was sent to Kuwait, and then, you know, everything else unfolded and happened there.

32:18

So that wasn't supposed to happen. So I had already decided to get out. My pastor had said, hey, I know you don't have any Bible training per se.

32:24

You don't have a seminary degree. But our church is growing. I could use someone with some leadership ability if you'd be interested in coming on board.

32:32

So I said sure and then went to Iraq. Came back. I had already put the paperwork in.

32:39

God worked in my heart. I believed I was doing the right thing. I transitioned out of the Marine Corps doing a job

32:44

I loved, the only job I had wanted to do since I was 14 years old. I was an infantry officer because I wanted to be an infantry

32:51

Marine because that's why you go into the Marine Corps. And if you're in the infantry, you want to go to combat, as weird as that might sound.

32:57

That's what you train for. That's what you prepare for. And that's what we did. And then

33:03

I found myself trying to beg volunteers to clean the church on Saturday night and trying to get people to just do stuff, right?

33:12

And I would get super angry during church staff meetings. Like I thought everybody was an idiot.

33:18

I just did not transition well. I had a really hard time. Even though I came from a church background and a

33:24

Christian background, one thing about serving in the military, if you're doing it right, you're all in.

33:31

And particularly in, you know, I would say the infantry world and the Marine Corps for sure, special operations community for sure, you're all in.

33:38

Everything about your life is about that job. And so a month removed from combat operations in Iraq, I was completely lost.

33:47

I mean, I was a wreck. I was a mess at home. I was angry all the time. I had two young kids, a wife that loved me, thankfully.

33:55

She probably should have left, but she didn't, and I'm very thankful for that. While I'm working on a church staff,

34:02

I'm at home, you know, throwing things and screaming at my kids and my wife. And it was a very, very difficult time.

34:07

And people say, well, was it post -traumatic stress? For me,

34:13

I mean, there was probably some of that coming off of that experience. But for me, more than anything, it was a complete loss of identity.

34:20

Like people just did not respect me, didn't understand who I was or where I had been or what I had done and how important it was.

34:26

And after about 11 months of that, my pastor, who had been my pastor before that experience, called me into his office and said, man,

34:33

I love you, but this is not working. This was 2003, not a lot of conversations around combat trauma.

34:39

He said, this is not working. I don't understand why. I want to help you, but you need to go unless you figure this out.

34:46

Wow. So this was a Friday. He said, we've got church on Sunday. You've got responsibilities. You need to be there. Monday, I want you and your wife to take off for a week.

34:54

At the end of that week, you can come back and tell me what you're going to do. And that was the first time

34:59

I had really stopped long enough to even think. My wife and I drove up the

35:06

California coast to San Francisco and talked for hours and hours and hours. We spent that week together. And I realized that identity was my problem.

35:13

I was not that guy anymore. And God was doing a work in my heart, and I needed to allow him to do that.

35:19

And that's when I really, as an adult, began to align my life to the life God created me to live.

35:24

We use phrases like that, but I don't mean that in a fluffy way. Seriously, God created me with purpose, and there was something he wanted me to accomplish and do.

35:34

And I needed to lean into that and stop looking over my shoulder and saying, well, maybe I should go back.

35:40

And it was, again, through that process that I began to find my identity. I struggled for a while after that, but that's why

35:47

I can relate so much, so well to this identity conversation. Now, remove Jesus from that.

35:53

Remove a loving church family and a loving pastor and a loving wife and a loving extended family.

35:59

I had all of those things. Remove all of that. I didn't abuse any substances. I wasn't that guy.

36:06

I didn't drink. I didn't do those things, and I still struggled. And we wonder why our men and women who are transitioning out of the military have such a hard time.

36:16

They just don't know where to land, and there's no one telling them what to do. Right, yeah. Man, I appreciate that so much.

36:21

Thank you for just being transparent. So I have a question just thinking through this.

36:27

I think I'm guilty of this. We meet someone that served in the military, and what's the number one question people get?

36:35

Well, did you kill someone? They want to know combat stories. And I think for a lot of guys, that probably is actually not helpful.

36:45

So my question for you is, say I leave today and I go meet someone, and they're like, oh,

36:51

I just got it back from Afghanistan or whatever. What should we be saying and what questions should we be asking these people that we meet that's going to be helpful?

37:00

What is it that they need, that they're looking for? As a baseline, and I say this to Christian people a lot and to pastors a lot, a lot of pastors will reach out and say,

37:09

I've got some military folks in my church. I don't know how to counsel them. What should I do? And I'll always say as a baseline, do whatever you would do with anyone else.

37:17

We're all people. We have different experiences and different backgrounds. And do whatever else you would do to care for someone who's hurting.

37:26

Do that. I think what everyone wants is a relationship. They want to know that people care about them.

37:32

And you can't force transparent or realistic conversations. You just can't.

37:38

And so it's creating opportunities to spend time with people, to be around them, to demonstrate that you care, and then to respond as they either talk to you, share a need, share a hurt, or you observe something in their family, something in their life.

37:56

Often there's marital stress, challenges with children. Hey, how can

38:01

I help you with this? What can I do to help you guys work through this or navigate this? But it has to be predicated on a relationship.

38:10

And I think we try to jump to the help before we jump to the I care about you as a person.

38:16

I care about you. And I think when you ask that, did you ever kill anybody or tell me about your time in the military or whatever, that's a great question.

38:24

It really is. It's an interesting question. But it's received as what you care about is what

38:30

I did. Exactly right. And you don't care about me at all. You have no idea what it's like to experience what

38:36

I've experienced. And whether they've experienced something traumatic or not, I think it's, hey, where'd you come from?

38:42

Where'd you grow up? What caused you to want to go into the military? What were some of the challenges? What were some of your favorite things?

38:48

And let me get to know you and spend time with you. And once that happens, then the other conversations begin to open.

38:56

And I think just being a good Christian to people is really the right place to start. Right on, man. No, you're exactly right. I wasn't thinking that specifically, but that was the direction

39:04

I was headed, and you're right. Because the questions, when we ask those questions that I mentioned, you're just pointing them back to that identity that they're wrestling with.

39:14

And it's like, especially if they are a Christian, we want to encourage them in their identity in Christ. If they're not a

39:19

Christian, we want to encourage them to turn to Christ. Well, and especially potentially directing them to something like a very traumatic experience.

39:29

In our day -to -day lives, when we ask the grocery store clerk how they're doing, we're not like, what was the most traumatic thing you ever went through?

39:37

And please tell me about that. What's the worst thing you've ever experienced? I'd love to hear about that. Right, yeah, exactly. That's hilarious.

39:43

That's right. And everyone wants to share that stuff, and some are more open than others.

39:49

But they need to know they can trust you first, and just let them do that in their own time.

39:54

Which is what we do with anyone else who came to our church. We start by, hey, who are you?

40:01

What's your name? What do you do? What's your job? Let me meet your kids and your family and get to know you a little bit, and then we'll go from there.

40:06

Yeah, I appreciate that a ton. So one other thing I was thinking is, from watching a lot of these interviews, a lot of guys

40:13

I'm noticing are getting into the DMT, which kind of leads to this oneness or one with nature.

40:24

Even guys that I've heard where they're like, we're raised in a church, like a Baptist church, and then they have a belief in God, right?

40:33

They believe in the God of the Bible, but then they get into this DMT stuff, and then all of a sudden it's very oneness and one with God sort of a thing.

40:40

Is that something you guys are encountering a lot? Like that kind of mentality or people that have gone through that?

40:47

Yeah, that's a prevalent mentality. There's a funny thing that veterans say. When another veteran dies, they'll say something like til

40:54

Valhalla, right? They'll make a statement like that. Maybe you've seen that somewhere, but it's kind of wrapped up in this

41:00

Norse mythology of the afterlife for the warrior and all of that. And I don't even think most people, when they say that, know what they're talking about.

41:08

It's just kind of a thing they say. But there certainly is this idea that, yeah, kind of the oneness idea.

41:17

It's just a universalism. I mean, it's a humanism. But with the drug use and that kind of thing, it's interesting.

41:27

And there's a lot of research, and there are a lot of people investigating and working on it, and people who say that psychedelics and other things are helpful for post -traumatic stress.

41:37

My answer to all of those questions is you can mask the pain. You can use a lot of substances.

41:45

We have people come to our program who, through the VA, have been prescribed more than 30 medications a day, right?

41:53

So you can use substances, and a lot of substances, and some are natural substances. You can use those things to help you manage your anxiety and manage your depression and all of those things.

42:07

You can drink a bottle of whiskey and do the same thing. There's a lot of things that you can do that can help, but they're not dealing with the problem.

42:15

And unless you start with understanding who you are, unless you start with a genuine relationship with God through Christ, then all you're doing is masking a pain, and eventually that mask is going to come off.

42:27

And so I could go on all day on that, but it has to start with the right foundation, and the right foundation for every person is that vertical relationship with God.

42:39

That's where it has to start. And beyond that, you'll notice that so many of the things that you're struggling with and dealing with, they just lose their grip on you.

42:50

Now, when it comes to medication, and I know you didn't ask that, but medication is a big issue as well, some medications can be helpful to manage, again, those things.

43:00

And if they put you in the right mind where you can begin making good decisions, then they can be helpful, but they should never be an end.

43:07

And for many people, this is the road. And they never ask the question of their physician, how long do

43:15

I have to be on this? What are we accomplishing with this? Where are we going with this? It's just, well, this is what I need to do now for the rest of my life, and God didn't create us to live that way.

43:23

And so, yeah, again, I could spend a lot of time there, but it has to begin with an authentic relationship with our creator, because it's only in that that we can live to our creation.

43:35

Amen, man. I appreciate that a ton. So along those lines, one thing I was just thinking is a lot of the guys

43:41

I heard talk about that specifically with the DMT, they've said, and you mentioned this earlier, like when you're in, you don't talk about your weaknesses, right?

43:50

If you're struggling, you don't talk about it because, you know, it's not a good thing to show signs of weakness, right?

43:56

Yeah, sure. And so they don't talk about stuff, and so that's a big problem with a lot of these guys is they're like, we never talk about stuff, you know?

44:05

So they're saying that DMT is like the, and I'm not asking you to speak on DMT, but they say that's the gateway that allows them to just open up and talk about stuff.

44:18

So I'm just curious, what do you guys do? What method do you do? Where do you think is the most effective to get guys to put down that wall and just be open and transparent?

44:28

It's exactly what I started with talking about our program. We have an environment.

44:37

So a student comes to our program. They're coming to a ranch. It's unfamiliar and a place probably not near their house with a bunch of people they don't know.

44:46

So the wall is definitely up. They're there for whatever reason they're there. Maybe their wife said, if you don't do this, I'll walk out.

44:51

Maybe they've been searching for something. Whatever the case, they're there. And they sit.

44:58

Typically, they've got the sunglasses on, the hat down. They don't want to make eye contact. They don't know anyone else in the room, but they're convinced that we can't help them and they're the only ones who've ever experienced what they've experienced.

45:10

They're sitting in a room with 30 other guys, and one of the first things we do is say, well, we're going to go around the room, stand up, introduce yourself.

45:18

This is your name, where you served. One interesting thing about yourself, if you want to. And so right at the beginning, we talk or we present.

45:27

Everyone here has a similar background to yours. Maybe not the same. We'll get there. But a similar background.

45:33

And the instructors begin sharing their stories. The most powerful thing we have as instructors in our program is our testimonies.

45:40

So we teach classes on character. We teach classes on discipline and purity and legacy and all of these things throughout the week.

45:47

But every class is taught from a testimonial standpoint. So something like this. I was sitting where you are.

45:53

I heard this class and it changed my life. Here's why. This is my story. And as these transparent stories, stories of childhood sexual abuse, stories of marital strife and broken relationships, stories of drug and alcohol abuse, when these stories are shared and the solution is found in, and then

46:13

I came here and God worked in my life and I began to have begun to move forward.

46:19

And when those stories are shared, the walls begin to come down because now you can see yourself in the person who's speaking.

46:26

And then you're in this group of people who are very similar to you. They're going to call you out if you lie because they're going to know it. And there's nothing you can tell them that's going to surprise them.

46:35

Then after a class is taught, every student, every person is broken into a team.

46:41

So they go out with their team of four or five other people. They have a facilitator who's also a graduate of our program, who has military experience.

46:51

All of our instructors on the men's side are combat veterans. And they're sitting in this group now, breaking down this thing with other people very similar to them.

47:03

You'd be amazed at how quickly these students open up because they're comfortable again.

47:10

Part of it is they're back in a familiar environment in a weird way around other military people.

47:15

They kind of joke the same way and say the same stuff. And it's just a familiar environment, but it's a very transparent environment.

47:22

And that transparency is led from the front, from the instructors, from those who are teaching.

47:28

And it's every single person. You don't teach in our program. You're not a part of our program if you're not willing to be very honest and very transparent.

47:36

If we start on Monday, which most of our sessions do, then Thursday night or Thursday afternoon we have testimony time.

47:44

That's a church word. But we explain to the guys, this is your opportunity to get up and tell your story.

47:50

You have 20 minutes. You can say anything you want. Don't do it at all. It's up to you. And, man, the most powerful time of the week is sitting there for two or three hours listening to these guys tell their stories and saying things they've never said to anyone else, being very honest and very transparent.

48:09

And do you need DMT for that? You don't. You need to be in the right environment with people who are willing to be honest with you and transparent with you and give you the space to do the same.

48:19

And Jesus. And Jesus. That's it. That's the whole thing. I love it. Yeah, you're just leading by example. I love it.

48:25

I love it a ton. I don't want to get us off track, but I meant to ask you this earlier.

48:30

And I just remembered, do you know who Alan Cooper is? I don't think so.

48:36

I'm just curious. I always get in trouble when I get asked this question. Oh, yeah, I was just hanging out with him.

48:41

There's a picture on Instagram. And then I forgot his name. I saw an interview with him the other day. He was Marine Recon.

48:48

He would have been right there in Iraq. They were like the first ones in when you were there. That's why

48:53

I'm just curious if maybe you'd run into him at all. Just curious. What?

48:59

You got anything? You're looking at me like you're. No, I'm just taking it all in. Well, I guess

49:05

I don't. Well, I was going to say he definitely needs to, like, share where we can.

49:11

Yes, I was going to get that. Yeah. Okay. You would, though. But yes, because actually I have people in the comments asking where to get stuff.

49:18

So before we go. Definitely. It's a need, especially. I feel like most people, they just you mentioned the

49:24

VA. That's kind of the one singular resource for people who need help that are veterans and not that the

49:32

VA is good for nothing. But I don't think they're pointing to you guys, though, in this area, in this area.

49:39

It's a particular. It's lots of medication and things that don't actually seem to be working all that well.

49:48

Yeah, exactly. I just curious. How many classes a year do you guys do this year?

49:54

Twenty twenty two. Right. That's where we are. Twenty twenty two. I know. I feel the same. Yeah. We have thirty five week long sessions.

50:02

Wow. Yeah. So thirty five weeks across the country. Now we split our program.

50:08

I'm sure you picked up on that. We have men's programs and women's programs. It's really hard to be transparent when you're not in a group of either men or women.

50:16

And so five of our sessions are women's programs or women's sessions. And the other 30 are men's sessions.

50:24

It's just, you know, people are like, why don't you care about women? We have so many women that would like to come and we're continuing to build out that program.

50:29

But it's kind of like basic math. There's just a whole lot more men coming out of the military than there are women. Sure. We won't yell at you.

50:36

We're continuing to work on that. We won't yell at you for that here. Don't worry. So that's a good segue then.

50:41

So where can people get a hold of you guys and use this opportunity to share whatever platforms you want to?

50:48

Awesome. So I'll share two. One is the most important one, the Mighty Oaks website. Mightyoaksprograms .org.

50:57

Mightyoaksprograms .org. You can, of course, find us on all the social media platforms as well. Mightyoaksprograms .org.

51:02

There you'll find an application. Fill out that application if you'd like to attend. If you know someone who needs to attend, send it to them, and a ton of other stuff.

51:10

We have a tab on there called Watch, and it's just a ton of videos that we've produced or testimonials that we've recorded, and that's proven to be a good resource as well.

51:21

Other books and resources that you can find there. So Mightyoaksprograms .org. And then for anyone interested in just kind of stuff that I write,

51:29

I have a blog and some other information that I put out. I'm not smart, so I have to use my name, JeremyStallnicker .com.

51:36

JeremyStallnicker .com. You can find my blog. We also put out a newsletter for our graduates, and you can sign up for that.

51:43

Anyone can sign up for that, but it's designed for our graduates, just with helpful things every week to think about, you know, whatever.

51:49

So yeah, Mightyoaksprograms .org or go to JeremyStallnicker .com, and you can reach all of that from there too.

51:55

And you have a podcast now too, correct? Yeah, we have a couple of podcasts that we do. One is called The Situation Report on the

52:01

Salem Radio Network, and then I have a podcast. This is when I interviewed Jeff on my podcast called

52:06

March or Die. Awesome. Yeah, I'd love to have anyone go check that out too. We were on Salem once.

52:13

We were. I think it's interesting, Jeremy, that you basically – your pastor asking you to, like, take a week.

52:23

You kind of had your own version of what you do now. It's funny. I've never had anyone say that, but you know what?

52:29

You're absolutely right. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And my wife was the primary instructor. Right. In the Holy Spirit. Right.

52:35

I mean, two great people. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Right on, man.

52:40

Well, I know you have another interview you've got to get to, so I'll let you get off. I appreciate your time, man, and I'm excited to finally be able to have this and hopefully have some sort of relationship moving forward where it's not just a one -off thing.

52:57

Yep. I'm going to be sharing this episode in my group thread with all my

53:02

SEALs right after I get off of this, and hopefully we can spread the word to some of these guys and get more guys help for sure.

53:10

Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for doing it. It's awesome. Yeah, man. Well, let's do it again sometime. All right.

53:16

Sounds good. God bless, man. Thank you. Later. Well, that was fun. Yeah. I'm excited.

53:23

Well, I mean, even just in the – usually our YouTube comments are just –

53:28

Yeah, they're pretty mild today. – are insane, but it seems like a lot of people are very interested and consider this to be quite a resource, which obviously it's a huge resource.

53:37

Yeah. And I mean especially anything that is free of cost, of course, which it's – let's be clear, it doesn't cost nothing to do the –

53:50

Yeah, we're not socialists. Right. But it still costs money, but you can participate for free.

53:57

Yeah. No, no, I actually saw someone earlier, and I don't think that this comment was meant to be –

54:03

Oh, yeah, I saw that too. But they said the gospel should be for Ian. Right. Yes, the gospel is free.

54:08

But – But the lights aren't. Right, yeah. And the rental spaces and the food and the travel like that cost money.

54:16

Right, yeah. So, yeah. Man, what a cool show. I just – I love that guy a lot.

54:22

I'm excited. So, yeah. Next week – well, we'll see.

54:30

I have a possible guess. I have a possible guess, but I'm not going to announce it yet. You don't want to speak too soon. Okay. So, yeah.

54:37

Once again, please be praying for our team in South Carolina this weekend at the rally. Pastor Jeff's there.

54:44

Zach Conover's there. Our media team is there, half of them anyways. So, we'll be recording that rally.

54:52

Pray for the work going on there. Thank you again to everyone. We talked about end abortion now this episode, and we do depend upon everyone's generosity, and we are grateful for you partnering with us.

55:02

So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Same with everyone that supports Apologia Studios. We can't do it without you.

55:08

Again, these lights, cameras, all this costs money, and so we're grateful. As a reminder, we did have to move

55:19

ReformCon 22 to the end of October, but the registration page should be up very, very soon, hopefully within the next week.

55:29

It should be up. We'll announce it as soon as it's up. I know a lot of people have been asking about that, so be watch for that. Hopefully, you can come and join us in the nice weather.

55:37

We have a website for it right there. It's reformcon .org. Right, and it's been updated. The dates have been. Okay, cool.

55:43

So, yeah, yeah. That's Stahlnecker. I just saw the question.

55:49

S -T -A -L -N -E -C -K -E -R. Someone asked him the thing, so.

55:56

So, yes, thanks again, everyone. And we'll see you next week.