August 23, 2018 Show with Thomas Evans on “Announcing the Return of Family Radio as Friend, Ally, & Platform for Christ’s Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 23rd

day of August 2018, and I do not believe that I am exaggerating when

I say that today's interview is a historic radio event

in the history of broadcasting, and I'm talking about my interview today for the very first time ever

with Thomas Evans, president and general manager of Family Radio and Family

Stations Incorporated, and today we are announcing the return of Family Radio as friend,

ally, and platform for Christ's Church, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the

very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Tom Evans.

Chris,.

Pleasure.

Pleasure to be with you.

Thank you for the honor of inviting me.

Onto your program.

And I want to right away give our listeners our email address if you have a question for Tom Evans about Family Radio,

about the amazing transitions and transformations going that the

station is going through, the network is going through, please give us an email at ChrisArnzen

at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside

the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we even go on to hear a summary of the history of Family Radio, and

then of course, more importantly, to announce these transitions that Family Radio

is going through, are going through, especially because these are transformations

that are answers to prayer.

No doubt the prayers of many thousands of Christians globally

that have longed for the day when Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated had

returned to an Orthodox position on theology and the Church of Jesus

Christ.

But I think it's a good idea for our listeners who are unfamiliar with you, Tom, for

you to give a summary of your own salvation testimony, the kind of religious atmosphere you

were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in

your life that drew you to him and saved you.

Great, thanks Chris.

Yeah, I was raised in a large Catholic family in Southern California and

my parents moved the family to a town in Southern California in Newport Beach,

and it was there in and around 1980.

We lived next door to a group of young men that were Christians who

met together in the mornings, and one morning they invited me and said, hey Tom, why don't you come over and pray with

us?

And at first I was, I don't know if I want to do that, but over time I just

observed these young men and they seemed to be genuine, and so

I agreed and went over, sat with them, prayed with them, and over a course

of a couple of months they gave me a Bible.

And I began to read the Bible, and God began to open my eyes.

So it wasn't long, probably a year, year and a half, when God began to open my

eyes to the truth of salvation, that it is indeed by grace, it is

by His election rather than by our choice.

And I began to just, one of the first changes that took place in my life was the belief,

the conviction, that indeed the Bible is the Word of God.

And that conviction has stayed with me throughout my life until this point.

Praise God for that.

And so how did you get involved in family radio?

Great question.

I was going to school, in fact I had read a book by

a well -known Reformed pastor of the 19th century, and

he suggested, there was a question a young man asked him, what should I do to prepare for the ministry?

And he said, get a degree, go get a degree in history or some kind of

degree like that to help prepare you.

That pastor's name was Spurgeon, Charles Spurgeon.

Amen.

And I was accepted to Berkeley here, UC Berkeley here in

Northern California, and some friends of mine who were missionaries in Southern California, they're

getting ready to go to Costa Rica, they said, hey Tom, when you're up in Northern California, look up this man by

the name of Harold Camping.

He had some quirky ideas, but he's someone that is Reformed and someone that

you can, I would like to, you know, we wanted to introduce you to.

So I was a student working on campus, and I had a lot of time

on my hand at night.

I had a great job on campus that allowed me to study, and I began to listen to the Open Forum program.

So a matter of a couple of months, I finally went to that.

Mr. Camping was hosting a Sunday school at a Christian Reformed Church

in Alameda, which is a neighboring town of Berkeley.

Went there, began to, you know, sit under Mr. Camping's teaching, and one of the things that impressed me

most at the time about Mr. Camping was his command of scripture.

He just, the man knew scripture.

So when I graduated, he, Mr. Camping, approached me and said, hey Tom, why don't you

come to work, consider coming to work for Family Radio.

And that was in 1986.

I did agree to that, to my parents' chagrin, and I

came to work for Family Radio in 1987.

Now why was it to your parents' chagrin, just out of curiosity?

Well, my parents were Catholic, so they thought that I was wasting my, wasting my education.

Right.

Well, I think now.

That you have mentioned specifically Mr. Camping, why don't you tell us a brief history, a summarized

history, of Mr. Camping and how he founded Family Radio and how the

network rose to the position of prominence in the Christian church as it had done,

especially amongst Reformed Christians, that remained as a

favorite and a bulwark of the truth until

approximately 1993 or so.

But if you.

Could tell us about the story.

Sure, I'd be glad to.

Yeah, Family Radio was formed actually as a nonprofit

ministry in 1958 and went on the air.

Its first FM station back when AM was, you know, FMs were not well known.

The FM frequency was not well known amongst people, radio listeners.

AM was the dominant.

But Family Radio went on the air on February 4th, 1959 at one

FM station here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

And so, over the course of the next 40 years, Family Radio

continued, had a pretty broad lineup of a lot of different teachers and

music, increasingly became well known.

It was sort of a, in many circles, Family Radio was a pioneer,

because we began as a listener -supported ministry entirely, and that was

somewhat unusual back in that day, and even today it's still rare.

Today, Family Radio is still entirely listener -supported, but at the time it was very unusual.

It began to grow.

When I started in 1987, there were eight stations throughout the U .S., eight major

stations, New York, Los Angeles, San Diego.

Then the next, in the 90s and the early 2000s, mid -2000s,

Family Radio grew to 66 stations, and I think almost a

hundred translators throughout the U .S.

It was a pretty, pretty large network.

But things began to change, like you mentioned, in 1992.

Mr. Camping gathered the staff here at Family Radio and told the staff that he was

going, that he had written a book entitled, 1994, and then had a question mark.

And there was some dispute about that, but Mr. Camping, from 92

to 94, began to actively talk about the end of the world

possibly occurring.

In fact, he said at one point, 99 .9 percent sure that it was going to happen in September of 1994.

Well, that came and went, and so there, so we,

in the 90s, in fact, Mr. Camping had a, in 96, he had

bypass surgery, and, but things began to quiet, and we, and listeners began

to return to Family Radio.

And then right around 2000, Mr. Camping came out with his end -of -the -church -age

doctrine.

He became convinced in his study of the book of Acts and the book of John,

and he publicly began to announce on open forum and

his family Bible study that, indeed, God had left the churches, or God, you know,

the Holy Spirit.

So that began and launched, you know, Family Radio.

That drove a wedge, obviously, with the churches.

That created a tremendous amount of contention.

And then you have, beginning in 2006, Mr. Camping came out with,

actively came out with the 2011 prediction.

And that started slow until Mr. Camping

had an interview with a San Francisco news reporter who published his prediction,

and that sort of launched the secular.

Actually, Mr. Camping always said, you look, I'm not going to rely on the Church at all.

The Church is not going to spread this news, but rather I'm going to rely on secular, the secular

newspapers and media organizations to spread the word about the end of the world,

May 21.

You know, actually at the time it was October 21, 2011.

Just to go back in time a little.

Bit, so people have more of an idea of who Harold Camping was, he was

a Christian Reformed Church elder, correct?

Yes.

And he was, was he an architect?

Tell me something about where he was involved in the construction field or the.

Architectural field.

He was an engineer.

Engineer, right.

Engineer by training, yep.

And he had started his own business after World War II.

He had his own business, Camping Construction.

He built, in fact, he specialized in building churches.

He helped, he, at the time, was very much involved as a layman.

In fact, I think he was one of very few laymen that were invited to the Synod.

They had their annual Synod, the Christian Reformed Church, and he was very active.

He was a very active Christian Reformed denomination

until his departure in.

1988.

And he departed in 88 for what reason?

Because I know a lot of pastors departed the Christian Reformed Church over liberalism.

Not that the pastors that left were liberal, but that the denomination was increasingly becoming.

More liberal.

No, it wasn't for that reason.

Well, I mean, I think that that was a contributing factor, but the consistory

had asked Mr. Camping to step down briefly for a period of time as a teaching elder,

and he refused to do that.

So he said, no, I'm gonna, I'm a teacher, I'm gonna go, and I'm going to start,

and basically he started his own church.

Oh, so that's what he did, and that was an independent church?

Yeah, it was called the Bible Reformed Church of Alameda, and, or Reformed Bible Church of Alameda,

in 1988.

It probably took a couple years, because he tried to find, and I remember

we tried to find a pastor who would be willing to come, because already then, he was beginning to

question the three forms of unity, the, you know, the canon of the tort, and

some of the confessions, and that gave a lot of pastors pause, and they were not willing to

unwind themselves already then with Mr. Camping, because, and this was in 87,

no, excuse me, this was probably 89, 1989.

And what were.

The specific reasons that the CRC gave for wanting him to step

down from his position as elder back then?

This is before the predictions of the end of the world, before the end of the Church Age

teaching, what was, what were the.

Specific reasons they gave that you know of anyway?

I wasn't in those meetings with him.

Okay.

Yeah, well, it is, well, Harold Camping, from my memory,

has always been an anomaly amongst Reformed people, because he always struck me, as long as I

was aware of him, and I have met him on, I had met him on several occasions at conferences,

but he was an anomaly in that he seemed to be anti -confessional in a

very confessional, in very confessional circles of fellowship, if you

will.

I remember him clearly wearing the button, the Bible alone, or the Bible only, and

of course, we who are Reformed, as I know you would agree, we are staunch

adherents to the the Reformation pillar, Sola Scriptura, but

that does not mean that we only read our Bibles and never glean from the wisdom and brilliance

of other Christians, not only from our own day, but from centuries past, and that would include the

confessions, which are really summaries of biblical teaching.

He always struck me as a bit out of step because of what appeared to be an anti -confessionalism.

Am I, was I correct in assuming that?

I don't know Mr.

Camping's heart.

I do know that his personality was such that, you know, when he, he

was thinking, you know, as he ran his business, he was trying to decide, well, what do I do with my life?

And he thought about going to seminary, so he said, rather than go to seminary,

I'm just going to teach myself, and he began to go, there was a, there was a,

at Berkeley on the adjunct campus, there was a, I can't remember the name of

it, but there was a seminary there, a school of theology that was connected to UC Berkeley,

and he began to go to, you know, they had a pretty extensive library, and he began, you know, he got permission and went there

and started studying some of the confessional, you know, confessions, as well as some of the historical

things, and, but Mr. Camping himself, I mean, I don't know

him well enough to know what prompted him to begin to question

the synodical or the confessions, other than he just felt that the Bible had to be supreme,

and some of the confessions, I think he felt, were, became more important

denominations than the actual Bible itself.

Right, well, of course, human beings.

Being sinners can fall into that category, but I, as I remember, he would

very frequently broad brush the entire church with charges, but first of all,

let me also say in my own life that family radio has been an enormous

blessing to me.

Back in my early days of salvation, especially in the 80s, I was saved in the mid -1980s,

and as Richard Homeras will testify, I

frequently mailed in tapes.

Yes, there were things before CDs or mp3s, or I used to mail in the

old -fashioned cassette tapes for conference echoes, and

there came a point where every single tape I would mail in was eventually played.

They grew to trust my judgment over there, and a lot of

folks were heard quite frequently.

My own pastor at the time, Mike Gaydosh, who was pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in

Amityville, and then later Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, and

Pastor Bill Shishko, who became a frequently heard voice on family radio,

the pastor for many years at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island, New

York, my friend Dr. James White, and many other men that I

had fell in love with what they preached and sent the recordings in.

In fact, Richard Homeras and Bobby Hamlin, who were working

for family radio, I understand at least Richard is still there, perhaps Bobby too, I don't know, but I remember

they called me up and they wanted to interview me in New York City because I was working at the time for

WMCA 570 AM, a part of the Salem Media Network, and

they interviewed me in Manhattan.

It might have been Central Park, I can't remember exactly, but I just had a love for family radio, and

then of course things started to unravel, just as you had stated in

your brief history of the rise and downfall, theologically, of

family radio.

One thing before I go to the major aspects that were the most

serious departures from biblical orthodoxy embraced by Mr. Camping that we should

highlight today, one of the things I was curious about, and you know you could

speak as freely as you care to on this, but when Mr. Camping

was going through these transformations, for the worse, what were the people working there

thinking?

I mean, was everybody following him in lockstep thinking that he must be right because he is so

wise and biblically literate or something, or was there

rebellion against him?

And of course this would have been rebellion in a rightful sense, people trying to stand for biblical truth.

Tell us about that situation, what was going on, as much as you can, anyway.

When I arrived in the.

Late 80s, two camps of family radio, I called them

the Hatfields and McCoys.

You know, it would be surprising, you'd think that everybody at family radio would be

aligned completely and everyone in agreement, but that wasn't true at all.

In fact, even today, there's a mixture of people here at family radio,

and yet back in the 90s to 2000s,

there definitely were two camps, and especially leading up to 2011.

The people that remained at family radio were there for their own reasons.

I can't look into anyone's heart to know why, but basically people were there

because they believed in the mission of family radio, getting the gospel, presenting the gospel, and they just put up with Mr. Camping

because, one, for fear of reprisal or fear that he would, you know, who knows.

They could lose your career.

Well, it could be, I mean, and many people have been there for years and years.

One of the things that, you know, was so sad and what had happened is that there were people at family radio for

50 years who were affected as a result of all this.

Yeah, and as I mentioned to you before, back in the early 90s, Art Thompson, who

was the general manager of WFRS Family Radio New Jersey, he requested that I come

from Long Island for a job interview.

This is while I was working for WMCA 570 AM Salem Media.

He asked me to come in for an interview because he knew of my experience in radio, and the day that I came in,

he was at the Japanese restaurant with me, treating me to lunch before our interview, and he apologized

that he had been fired that morning because he was in open opposition to the 1994

prediction of the end of the world.

Yeah, I don't know they,.

You know, you had mentioned that, and I don't know all the specifics, but I don't think that

was unusual.

I don't, I am surprised that Mr. Camping would, Mr. Camping generally wouldn't fire people.

What he would do is basically just not, you know, I just wouldn't include you.

I mean, and there was this, at Family Radio, what was called the inner circle, and people that were in

that camp were very loyal, but nevertheless,

all of that we have learned from the past, and we realized, look it, this is not, this is no

longer the direction of Family Radio.

The Lord took Mr. Camping, you know, back in December of 2013, and

since that time, since 2014, Family Radio has been on a completely

different mission.

In fact, our mission statement in, you know, Family Radio is not, no longer has anything to do

with the teachings, the doctrines of Mr. Camping,

and basically, listen, I want to, I do want to humbly apologize to those

who were affected by Family Radio, and you can imagine, in my

position, you know, it's like devastation that has

occurred, that did occur.

If you can imagine waking up on May 22nd, 2011, and realizing,

wow, what did we just do?

What did we just do?

And yet, Family Radio, from

that experience, God and His mercy to

this organization, we are no longer advocating any of that, and

rather, what we do hold on to, and I was talking about this earlier today with Scott

and Pastor Joe.

A surgeon, when a surgeon goes in and performs brain surgery on a person,

the tumor is in a very sensitive area.

He goes in there very carefully and tries to excite the cancer without destroying or

killing the patient, and without destroying healthy tissue.

Family Radio has been doing that the last seven years.

We've been trying to extract the false teaching, while at the same time, keeping

intact Family Radio's core beliefs in the Bible,

beliefs in salvation by grace, all of these things, keeping our core

music, what we stand for, why we do what we do, why is Family Radio here?

We are here to comfort the Saints and to proclaim the

gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only reason we're here, we're not here to defend.

I cannot defend Mr. Camping.

I will not turn away

from what we did, acknowledging, look it, we did, we made a mess,

schism in the church, and I see that, and

it affected my family.

I have four small children.

It affected my wife.

It affected me personally.

As you can imagine, waking up and realizing that I had devoted my life to something that was false.

I never intended that.

I came to work to Family Radio for this ministry because I believed in the need of the

gospel and for people to hear the Word of God.

And now we got so far away from that, it's time now to get back

and let go of the past.

Amen.

And drive forward.

Amen.

Well, it is such a blessing to hear you say those words, and we have to go to our very first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, and we already do have some people waiting, and I ask

you to be patient with us as we will try to get to all of the questions that come in as time

will allow, but if you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisanzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back with Tom Evans and more on the

transformation of family radio.

My name.

Is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the

pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist Church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at.

Www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Hi,

Phil Johnson here.

I'm executive director of.

John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's

Iron Radio.

So I'm delighted that my friend, Chris Arnzen, and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3

conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever,

Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the

topic of biblical understanding of missions.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference from January 17th

through the 19th.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpen's Iron exhibitors booth to say hi to Chris.

For more details, go to G3conference .com.

That's G3conference .com.

See you there.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

a.

Pastor.

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And don't forget to continue to pray for Mike Gaydosh, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

He entered the hospital today for a surgery prep and is

scheduled to go into surgery the first thing tomorrow morning.

This is a very serious, very delicate, very complicated and very dangerous open -heart surgery.

Not every heart surgeon is familiar or has expertise in this particular

procedure that needs to be done, so please pray for Mike Gaydosh.

He means the world to me.

He was my pastor for a number of years, especially during my formative years as a Christian.

He was the one that baptized me.

He was so instrumental in being my mentor and training me up in the faith.

And he was a frequently heard voice on family radio, the old family radio prior

to 1994.

His voice was very often heard on the Conference Echoes program, which was later renamed Echoes.

And I just ask of you to pray for him.

Pray that we hear wonderful praise reports very soon that he has had a very

successful surgery and that he is going to be a stronger and healthier man physically than he has been in years,

but even more so, a stronger and healthier man spiritually as a result of this trial that our loving

and merciful and gracious Lord has placed him in.

So please continue to pray for Mike Gaydosh, founder of Solid -Ground -Books

.com.

We are now back with our interview with Tom Evans, the president and general

manager of Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated.

And if you have any questions of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Tom, I would like to hear from you what you believe were the

primary and most serious aberrant teachings that Mr. Camping

developed.

I know that he had predicted the end of the world, as we already were discussing, and he became

a preacher of the false teaching that the church had become the enemy of Christ and that Christ had

become the enemy of the church.

The end of the church age had already begun, as if there were such a thing.

In fact, I don't know if you even realize this, Tom, but I urged James White,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, years ago, back in the early 2000s, to

write a book on this, which he did, and I actually named the book.

I gave the book its title, I should say, Dangerous Airwaves Harold

Camping Refuted and Christ's Church Defended.

And actually, being an art major, I did the cover artwork for that book by Dr. James R. White.

And Mr. Camping agreed to conduct a debate with Dr. James R. White on

Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio when we were broadcasting out of Long Island, New York, and that was a four -day

event because, in addition to the two days they were debating, I had them each on alone as guests so

that they could articulate their views before the debate.

And one thing that I was quite pleasantly surprised about is that Harold Camping

actually told me, even though he disagreed with James White's conclusions in

Dangerous Airwaves, he actually told me on the phone that he thought James did a great job.

I still don't fully understand that, but he was not at all derogatory in his remarks

against the book Dangerous Airwaves that James wrote.

But, so let's move on to some of the other primary

teachings that Mr. Camping began to highlight towards the end of his ministry,

even teachings that he himself vociferously opposed at one time.

I know that listening to Open Forum, the most

recognizable program that identified with Harold Camping, the live

show that he did where he took any questions that listeners had.

I can even remember Seventh -day Adventists frequently calling in and challenging him on

his views of eternal conscious punishment.

And then he eventually came to deny those teachings himself and became a believer in

annihilation.

But if you could, tell us about some of these primary teachings where he went far from.

The biblical mark.

Wow, that's a big topic.

Where do you start in something like that?

Yeah, Mr. Camping, when I first met him, he had a

unique...already then, in the 80s, he believed in the

deeper spiritual meaning in the Bible.

So what...so basically what he...Mr. Camping believed in the three levels of meaning.

The historical, grammatical, and then the deeper spiritual meaning.

Mr. Camping began to teach early on about

how numbers in the Bible can represent specific things, doctrinal issues,

spiritual meanings, and have meaning in and of themselves.

And so he began to assemble this together, and it really was...Mr. Camping created

a biblical structure, and that, you know, the...with specifically

around the end of the Church Age, something that, for those who are

listening who are camping, one of the things that I don't think a lot of

people who supported Mr. Camping understand is that if they still believe in the end of the Church Age,

they must believe that we're at the end of the world, because one of the core teachings of

the end of the Church Age is that it is the beginning point of the end of the world,

God's final judgment.

That's really what kind of got me.

You know, after Mr. Camping's passing, I began to look very carefully at

the core of what the basis of what Mr. Camping believed.

I don't want to get off too far on this other than to say that in my own

personal study, I realized that there were several presuppositions that Mr. Camping made

that are not...what he did basically

is he...Mr. Camping established private interpretation.

When he had a stroke in June of 2011, all of that teaching, all

of that knowledge went away.

No one else had that...possessed that.

So basically, the doctrines that Mr. Camping taught, the end of the Church Age, the

timeline of history, all of that pretty much went with Mr. Camping's memory when he

lost it.

So now, that helped me personally to come to grips with the fact that

this is private interpretation.

You're teaching me something about his personal history that I never knew.

Before.

Yeah, he...you know, Mr. Camping kept saying

the fact is...he would say that repeatedly.

He believed it himself.

Mr. Camping, being with him the way I was, I had...I spent a lot of time with him.

He genuinely believed that the world would end and that Christ would come for his church on

May 21, 2011.

So it wasn't an act.

It wasn't a publicity stunt.

But one of the things that I recall on June...what was it?

May 23rd, the following Monday, after the prediction came and went,

Mr. Camping had a...what do you call it?

I was there with him in that room, and one of the things that struck me with Mr.

Camping was, though he was shell -shocked, though he was, you could see, visibly

drained, he was as stalwart and

as defiant as ever.

Nothing changed in that...in him.

He thought, well, we made a mistake, yes, but then he shifted and talked

about May 21 being a silent judgment or a

silent coming of Christ.

And that did it for me.

That began to...I began to think, there's something wrong here.

Yeah, that sounds like Jehovah's Witness teaching.

Well, I mean, I don't know Jehovah's Witnesses very well, but yes, there was a lot more, increasingly more and more,

Mr. Camping isolated himself, isolated Family Radio.

He was not open to hearing anything, anyone, any other idea outside of

his own.

He did surround himself with a cadre of people who did encourage him, in fact, found

scriptures that would help to shore up what he

believed.

Sometime in June, I forget the date, he had a major stroke.

And that was it.

All of that came crashing down, and then the Lord took him in

December of 2013.

But one of the things I want to mention about Mr. Camping, in my private

conversations with him after, one of the things he did say to me

privately is, Tom, I'm grateful for God's forgiveness.

Wow.

So I do not know where he stood with the Lord, but I do know that

he got God's forgiveness and God's grace.

And I think that's a lesson that we all can learn here.

Yeah, praise God.

Yeah, it's kept me going.

All of us going is, God has been faithful.

God has been faithful.

We are not, but God is faithful.

And that's a powerful lesson, a needful lesson that we all need to come to grips and

learn.

God's faithfulness.

I want people to know about this God.

I want for them to meet him through the pages of Scripture.

That is why we've stopped being the guardian of truth or the,

you know, Family Radio became a denomination all of its own.

We're no longer that.

The Bible is God's Word.

It is, and God is the teacher.

We look to God provides.

I want to just make mention of something, for those

that may be listening now and may come to hear about Family Radio,

and I want to apologize to you personally.

I'm very sorry for what, in my part, I can't apologize

for Mr. Camping, but I can't apologize as the president of Family Stations that

we were wrong to you.

And I want you to know that I personally am very sorry for the way that we, we

actually despised the body, the body of Christ, and we had no business doing that.

So you pastors that who may be listening, please forgive me and forgive

Family.

Radio.

Amen.

I just want to retrace some of the things that you said about his aberrant teachings, because I do think this is

important, especially for those who are still clinging to them, and also for those who

are completely unfamiliar with Harold Camping.

There are people who have been raised in the church and are now young adults, who

none of their Christian experience involves Family Radio, because Family Radio theologically collapsed

before they can even remember thinking.

But going back to the allegorical or spiritual interpretations of Scripture,

obviously every Christian believes that there are many

teachings in the Bible, many words in the Bible, phrases in the Bible,

that are meant either to be viewed allegorically or spiritually,

or that they have both a literal and allegorical meaning.

Obviously we would all be Roman Catholic if we believed that at the Lord's Supper Jesus was

actually teaching his disciples that they were eating his literal flesh and drinking his literal blood.

But it's really that Harold Camping went hyper -allegorical with these things, hyper -spiritual, and

began performing eisegesis, inserting things in the Bible that were never

intended to be there by the authors who wrote words that were God

-breathed.

And the numerology and all these things, these were things that he was coming up with

without any historical precedent, and without even basis

in the original languages of the Bible.

Isn't that really more what you meant about his errors in that regard?

Yeah, I mean, we know that, you know, I certainly

have come to learn and believe that in order to truly understand the Bible, you must be born again,

and that, you know, you must have the presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within you

individually to really come to understand the Bible.

One of the things that Mr. Camping did was he created his own hermeneutic,

and by utilizing the spiritual meanings that he, as he established them,

you could, anyone could unlock the mysteries of the Bible.

And unfortunately what that did was it like you said, it created a lot of aberrant.

Anyone can pretty much ascribe any meaning they want to to the Bible then.

So he departed from the traditional historical grammatical

hermeneutic and went completely in the direction that the Bible

interprets itself, and that we can, by utilizing, implementing, putting in place

certain spiritual meanings, you can find the truth.

You can find the true meaning of the Bible.

But I think where he went astray is that he began to

mourn.

You can see this.

You can begin to see when somebody isolates himself, when they are not surrounded by,

you know, we read and there's a multitude of

counselors there is safety.

Even that Mr. Camping interpreted and said, no, that doesn't mean the counselors are not

fellow believers or fellow, you know, pastors or teachers, but rather it's the scriptures themselves.

That, you know, so he isolated himself, became his own and believed himself

to be the Moses of his day.

Yeah, that's a very key thing there.

God, I happen to be Reformed, a Reformed Baptist to be more specific, believe

that the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith is an accurate summary of the scriptures.

Obviously the scriptures have no equal.

The scriptures are God -breathed.

No confession or creed is God -breathed.

But I believe that the confessions of the Reformed faith accurately teach that the

Bible has designed for the church a plurality of elders.

And I think it would be foolish, even though family radio is not a church or was not a church,

never will be a church, it would be wise for not only family radio but every

Christian, even in business, to understand that God's wisdom

is what produced the concept, the polity of

the plurality of elders.

And I think that when one man sets himself up as the

sole ruler in a church or a ruler that is far superior to

all others, even if he doesn't say it in those words or doesn't have it written down that way but basically acts that way and

expects everybody to treat him that way, you are setting yourself up for catastrophe.

And I think that that's exactly what happened here with family radio and Harold Camping.

Yeah I agree with you.

Chris.

I think I want to make something clear here.

Family radio does not endorse...

I am NOT a theologian.

I'm not trying to carry on Mr. Camping's mantle.

I came to, you know, God led me to that conviction many years ago.

I am NOT Harold Camping, you know, Jr.

So family radio, as far as I'm concerned, family radio has no right

to present itself as any kind of authority.

I'm not a theologian, I have no training in that.

Family radio's purpose, really, today, all we really are here for is

to present the Bible.

And we do that.

I mean, you look at some of our programming.

We have a program recently, probably last two years, that's called Through the Bible in a Year.

All it is is every day there are, from January 1 to December 31,

we go through the Bible.

And so if someone wants to jump on and listen to family radio and hear the Bible every day and wants to commit, you

know, commit themselves to hearing the Bible in a year, they can do so.

So the Bible itself, family radio, all we're here for is to produce the Bible, I mean, to

declare the Bible.

That's why we have reacquainted ourselves with pastors, teachers, ministries

that are faithful to Scripture.

A couple of years ago, well, boy, a year and a half ago, we brought on two new syndicated programs,

Alistair Begg's and R .C. Scroll's Renewing Your Mind.

We've been very blessed by these.

I can't speak enough about these two organizations, Truth for Life and Renewing Your Mind.

These individuals, or these groups, are faithfully trying to

present the Gospel, teach the Bible.

I've been so impressed by both Alistair's, you know, just his heart, the

way that he, his commitment, as well as R .C. Scroll.

My only regret with Ligonier is I wish I would have met R .C. Scroll personally.

I wish I could have spent some time with that man.

I definitely gifted him, and the way that he was able to extract, oh

man, I mean, talk about a.

Theologian.

Amen.

I thank God that I had the providence and privilege and honor to interview

Dr. Scroll once, and he wrote a glowing endorsement for Iron Trap and Zion

Radio that has been a prized and cherished and treasured possession of mine, because it

absolutely blew me away when his secretary emailed me that

endorsement, because she had to do it for him, because Dr. Scroll did not use a computer, and so he had

it actually typed out on stationery and signed it with a pen, and she scanned it and

emailed it to me.

But I was just, I just treasure that, and I did have the opportunity, thanks be to God, to meet him face -to

-face as well on several occasions.

Yeah, I've heard stories about him,.

About his personality, and, but my wife and I listened pretty much,

because it's on Family Radio in the mornings here, 8 o 'clock, here on the West Coast, as well as

Central Time, and then what is it, 9 a .m.?

9 a .m. Eastern and Mountain.

So if you want to be blessed by his ministry, I would encourage you to tune in to local Family

Radio.

There's a plug there for Family Radio.

I just want to, if I could, Chris, go back to and just talk about, maybe

get into Family Radio's position on.

The local church.

Sure, we will do that when we come back from our break.

This is our elongated break, and just a reminder, listeners, we take

this very long break in the middle, at least 12 to 14 minutes break,

because Grace Life Radio and 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, they air this

program in a rerun format every day, twice a day, in morning and evening drive, and they

require this long break because they air their own public service announcements and commercials to

localize the program there in Lake City, Florida.

So I ask of you to please be patient while we take this break.

I also ask of you to write down your questions for our guest today, Tom Evans, president of Family

Radio and Family Stations, Incorporated, and also to write down the information provided by

our advertisers so that you can patronize them, because the more frequently you patronize our advertisers, the

longer they are likely to remain our advertisers, which means that the longer we are likely to

remain in existence because we rely upon their advertising dollars.

So if you have a question for Tom Evans, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if

you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a

personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back after these station breaks with more of Tom Evans and

the transformation of Family Radio.

Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

James White here, co -founder of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I'm so delighted.

My friend Chris Arnson will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the

19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme, A Biblical

Understanding of Missions.

Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe,

Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, yours truly, and many more.

I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event.

For more details, go to g3conference .com.

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Call Lindbrook.

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Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

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We just have a couple of more announcements to give you before we return to Tom Evans

of Family Radio.

First of which is the event that I have helped to organize in Switzerland,

Florida, coming up very soon.

This is the event at the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary

in Jacksonville, Florida, which is right near Switzerland.

The Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary has a Jacksonville campus and they are having an event with my friend Dr. James

R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Dr. Michael L. Brown of the Line of Fire radio program.

That is going to be titled, or is titled, A House -Mended Christian Unity in a

Culture of Outrage.

That's Friday night, September 7th, 630 at the Gordon Conwell

Theological Seminary in Jacksonville, Florida.

For more information you can go to one of the churches sponsoring this event,

SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org, SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org.

The following night, Saturday, September 8th, there's going to be a debate actually held at the

Switzerland Community Church.

This is a debate that once again involves my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Michael L.

Brown of the Line of Fire program.

They are going to be debating two practicing homosexuals that believe that this

is an acceptable desire and behavior amongst Christians, that God is not

opposed to this in the New Covenant.

And the theme of the debate is, is homosexuality consistent with New Testament obedience?

A very important debate in the 21st century, especially when this sin has run

rampant in this nation.

If you would like more details on this debate, which is also free of charge, go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch

.org, SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org.

That's Saturday, September 8th at 630 p .m.

Then coming up in November, we just mentioned earlier the Alliance of Confessing

Evangelicals, well they are having their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

That's November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

I intend to be there with an Iron Sherpa's Iron Exhibitors booth.

The theme is the Glory of the Cross and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson,

and Carlton Winn.

If you'd like more details, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org, click on events, and then scroll down to

the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

And then coming up in January, you've been hearing it advertised every day for quite a while here on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, that's

the G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, which will be held

Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th at the Georgia International Convention Center

in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta.

They are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people.

The theme this January is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

And by the way, if you know Spanish -speaking and bilingual folks, they are having a special Spanish -speaking edition

of the conference on Wednesday, January 16th.

But for the English -speaking conference, they have a long list of speakers,

amazing speakers, that I'm sure most of you will immediately recognize.

The list includes my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Paul Washer,

John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Chalies, Phil

Johnson of John MacArthur's Grace to You Ministry.

We have Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, who is the president

of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late Dr. R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many

more are on that roster.

If you'd like to register, go to G3conference .com, G3conference .com, and

also I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitors booth, in addition to just attending,

if you have a business or ministry that you want to publicize amongst the crowd of between 4 ,000

and 5 ,000 people there.

Go to G3conference .com, G3conference .com.

Last but not least, if you love this program, you don't want it to disappear, go to ironsharpensironradio

.com, click support, then click, click to donate now, and you could donate instantly with a debit or

credit card to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We need your donations and your advertising dollars in order to survive.

If you'd like to advertise with us, send us an email and put advertising in the subject line and send that to

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Please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Those two things are commands of God, providing for church and home.

Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you love the show and you don't want it to disappear and you're financially blessed

above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio as much as you can and

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, and then click, click to donate now, and you can

also send in a check via the old -fashioned way when the snail mail address appears on your

screen by clicking support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

But now we are taking emails again for our guest today, Tom Evans, the president of

Family Radio.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com is the email address chrisarnzn at gmail

.com.

And just one other thing I'd like to bring up before we go on to the positive direction of

Family Radio and its very high view of the church that they have

reclaimed, for lack of a better term.

When I interviewed Mr. Camping back in the early 2000s

or perhaps even somewhere in the neighborhood of 2010 or 11,

Mr. Camping, when I mentioned that in the Revelation

we see that those from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation will be worshipping the Lamb,

and I said to him, since you believe the end of the world is just around the corner, how could that

be true since there are still, in our modern day, tribes and

tongues and peoples that have not been evangelized?

There are still, on this planet, people groups that have not yet heard the gospel.

I said, how could this be a true picture of the church from

every tribe and tongue and people and nation if the church, if the world, is going to end any day now?

And his answer to me shocked me because I did not know this before speaking to him on the air.

He said, you do not need to believe in Jesus to be saved.

He said, the old covenant saints did not believe in Jesus.

You just need to cry out to God, just cry out to God.

That was something that stopped me in my tracks.

I had never heard him say that before, that you did not need to believe in Jesus as long as you cry out to God.

I'm assuming this would be one of those very serious aberrations that you

are departing.

From or have departed from completely.

Yeah, I'm not going to defend that, nor am I going to get into that.

I wasn't there, but no, we don't have, certainly we don't believe that.

We're a family of stations.

The Lord Jesus Christ is everything, and without Him there is no salvation.

So, contextually, I don't know why Mr. Camping said it

other than I, you know, so I don't even want to talk about that.

Chris, I just think that we all know, you know, neither is there salvation in

any other, and there's no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.

So, the Lord Jesus is everything, and no family station doesn't.

Advocate that at all.

Well, praise God for that, and I'm assuming he meant by that in some

inclusivistic way that Jesus Christ does save you, but you don't need to know that.

I'm assuming that's what he meant by that, but let's, for now, before we go to some listener

questions, move on to some of the very positive and history -making

information that you care to share about how Family Radio is being transformed and

returning to some very core biblical teachings, including the very high

view, the very biblical view of the Church of Jesus Christ, the.

Local Church of Jesus Christ.

Sure.

For me, one of the transition points was in my own study of places like 1 Corinthians 12 and

Ephesians 4, and there, God speaks about the body, the body of Christ

being many members.

And then in Ephesians chapter 4, he talks of evangelists, teachers,

being in the body for the sake of God's

people, and so that individual believers wouldn't be tossed to and fro by every wind

of doctrine.

So, Family Radio is a case in point that we can be tossed to and fro by every wind of

doctrine when there are not pastors, teachers, evangelists who God has

raised up, and that who God has put in place.

You know, if you read in Ephesians chapter 4, he does say, if I

can find it here, and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some

evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the

ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

The signal change at Family Radio is we want to edify the body of Christ, not sit here and poke and condemn the

body of Christ.

We are no longer, I mean, the foot can't say, or the eye can't say to the foot, I have no need of you.

And Family Radio, I'm sorry, I regret.

We were guilty of that.

We were guilty of saying to the other parts of the body of Christ, we don't need you anymore.

We know the truth.

We got it.

Thank you very much.

And leave us alone and let us, you know, the end of the world's coming.

But we no longer teach that.

We no longer believe that.

We understand that the Church itself does need to be

edified, and that the Church, the body of Christ, is fitly joined together

and interdependent.

And just as we depend on Christ Jesus, the individual members of the body depend on one

another, and God has brought us together.

Wow, what a, the body of Christ, what an amazing

thing that it is.

And now God fitly joins each piece together and gives the member parts different

talents and abilities.

We should celebrate that.

We should rejoice in that.

We should seek to encourage one another, edify one another, build one another up, rather than the

contrary.

So family stations, family radio, no longer, absolutely no longer

condemns the local congregation.

Sit here and say that we know the truth and we alone.

Praise God.

And I remember.

You mentioning before that you no longer identify yourselves as the

arbiters of truth or the defenders of truth.

I think the key word there would be the, because you obviously want to be a Defender of Truth,

just not consider yourselves to be.

The, capital T -H -E, Defender of Truth.

Right, Chris.

Remember I said I use the analogy of a surgeon going in and excising cancer,

trying to harm the healthy tissue surrounding it.

That's what we're trying to do.

As we go forward at Family Radio, we're trying to take the, I mean, we have an incredible opportunity here

to really, the truths of the Bible, and to focus on

the things that remain, the truth of the gospel that we are sought, we are saved by grace,

through faith, that is the gift of God.

And faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

So we trust that.

We want to let the Bible go, profess, you know, proclaim it openly, and get out of the way and stop

trying to manipulate it.

But it doesn't mean that we lay down and say, well, we're open to any and every doctrine, either.

Of course.

We want to stay consistent, we want to align ourselves with ministries,

pastors, who genuinely embrace the true gospel, the gospel of

salvation by grace.

And that we are doing wholeheartedly.

In fact, I want to mention that last Sunday, we aired Dr. James

Boyce on Family Radio, first time for, I don't know when the last

time he was on the air at Family Radio, but I do recall that in the late 90s, Dr.

Boyce was a regular on Family Radio, but now we rejoiced that last Sunday,

the last Lord's Day, that Dr. Boyce was again.

Heard on Family Radio.

Well, you should be very pleased to know that I just received an email from

Robert Brady, the Executive Director of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, and he is

so excited that the Bible Study Hour and Dr. Barnhouse and

John MacArthur and Alistair Begg and R .C. Sproul are returning to the Family Radio network.

He just wanted to share his enthusiasm and excitement and his

thanks to God and also his congratulations to you for.

This wonderful news.

Chris, I thank you, but I want to make one, just one thing you said.

We have not, great to you, it's not, but we,

okay, but we are talking to them.

Okay, well that's okay.

It just hasn't been finalized yet, you're saying.

No.

Okay, well that's what Bob Brady said, but I guess he was jumping the gun there a bit.

We have a couple of listeners, a number of listeners actually, with questions.

We have Daniel in Paralind, Texas, who asks, why was

nothing done to stop Mr. Camping when they could have pulled the plug on him?

We have wonderful friends who still have not returned back to the church.

That's Daniel in Paralind,.

Texas.

Wow, not anyone I'm

capable of stopping him.

I mean, he was the, in the highest level of authority there at the station.

Mr. Camping?

Yes.

Yes, that, yes, indeed, he was the, pretty much he

ran the show and, you know, I'm not going to say anything more than, other than,

there was not anyone within leadership capable of.

Doing that.

Well, thank you, Daniel, and by the way, since you are a first -time questioner, you have won a free New American Standard

Bible, and if you give us your full mailing address in Paralind, Texas, our sponsors, Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to us, and we

thank the publishers of the New American Standard Bible for providing us with these Bibles for first -time

questioners.

We have another first -time questioner, Lawrence in Lafayette, California, who says, if Family

Radio has truly repented, why is Harold Camping still on the air?

They still have him in a slot one of those, they still have him in a slot

one of those old teachings.

It's a little bit grammatically off, but I think we understand what he's saying.

If you could, if you could respond to Lawrence in.

Lafayette, California.

I'd be glad to.

Look, if anyone who's listened to Family Radio over the course of the last five years, following

May, you know, 2011, Mr. Camping was on the air, boy, at least five and a half hours a day.

Today, he's on a half an hour.

We're trying to make incremental change, trying not to,

you know, we're definitely making changes in that, and yes, you know, one might ask,

well, why do you still have Mr. Camping?

Well, the only thing I can say about that is, one,

we're trying to cull all of his archives.

We're trying to slowly make change.

We, you know, under, since I became the president, I've tried to make slow, but

pronounced, definite change, and we're a work in progress.

And we are indeed editing his programs.

We're culling them down, we're not including any of the real aberrant doctrines that

he had, that he held before, but rather trying to stick with the core of the Bible,

salvation by grace.

Yeah.

Rome was not built in a day.

Yeah, and so we're just trying to do this slowly, faithfully, find our

way, and depending on God looking to him to, you know, give us wisdom how we

can do

this.

Gentleman who asked the question from Tech, and I want to just take opportunity to talk to, or

to apologize to those who are affected

by Mr. Camping and his teachings.

You know, I saw, I heard about a documentary that was done, and there was

a couple, this couple,

and she was, she and her husband were, before May 21, were passing out trash.

When I think of that couple...

That's okay, brother, take your time.

Take your time,.

Brother.

Think about my three -year -old daughter.

Family Radio today, this couple.

Amen.

I pray that you would, scriptures, and you will find.

Praise God for the.

Repentance he has given you and the staff of Family Radio, and we are going to a final

break.

It's a much briefer break, a much more brief break than the one that you just heard, so if you

have any questions, I would send them in now or forever hold your peace, because we are rapidly running out of time.

That's a little tongue -in -cheek there.

Of course, there will be, God willing, other opportunities when we have Tom Evans and other folks from Family

Radio return as guests, but as far as today is concerned, if you want a question asked, please send it in

to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and always please give us your first name, city and state,

and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Tom Evans with the conclusion of our program today on the.

Transformation of Family Radio.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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We are now back with our guest, Tom Evans, the president and general manager

of Family Radio, Family Stations, Incorporated.

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z

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We have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks, one

of my favorite programs that was a part of my steady diet theologically for years

on Family Radio was ECHOES.

Are you planning to return ECHOES to the Family Radio lineup, especially

since it included great pastors from all over.

The world?

Great question.

Yeah, we are.

We're looking at developing a program like that where well -known

Reformed pastors as well as lesser -known Reformed pastors can have a place to,

from which they would have a broader pulpit to preach.

And so we've been talking about, yeah, I remember fondly the ECHOES program, and so

yeah, we as a team are talking about that.

So yeah, to answer your question, Lord willing, we will have and be ready to

interview something like that very soon.

We have an anonymous listener who says,.

Family Radio was also preaching that no one is being saved now.

Is that still what they are teaching?

Of course, if you have abandoned his views of the end of the world and things like that, I'm certain that would be one of the

things you've abandoned.

Of course.

Yeah,.

No, we don't teach that at all.

In fact, one of the passages I think that this person that's asking that question would

be good is Genesis 8, verse 22.

That was a passage that God used in my own life to kind of open my eyes to the

fact that there will be the sowing of seed, which means the proclamation of the gospel,

while the earth remains.

But I just would have to encourage them that no, Family Radio does not teach that at all.

Well, I'd like you to take some time.

To as detail as you can, because I know some of this you probably don't yet know, but tell us

something about what you intend for the future of Family Radio, what you

are planning to roll out, as it were, things that are in preparation

for the all -new Family Radio,.

If you will.

Tell us about some of these things.

Sure.

Yeah, Family Radio, through

expertise in radio, and very pleased about that.

You know, musically, Family Radio is known for traditional, faithful Christian

hymns and songs and spiritual songs, and Family Radio will continue.

If anything else, we're going to refocus on that.

We're going to, rather than move away in a more contemporary direction, we're going to refocus our attention on

making our music as consistent and as

pleasing and as faithful to Scripture as possible.

So musically, those who listen to Family Radio will notice over the course of the next few

months just a more, how would you say

it, just a more consistent day -parting of music.

We, you know, we talk about, you know, just we have several programs right now that

have been produced over a long time, and so there's a smattering of different kinds of music, different kinds of

programming at Family Radio.

So we're trying to, just like we did with our new

rebranding of Family Radio, we're going to, Family Radio's content, the way we sound,

our imaging, all that, top of the hour spot, we're going to refine that.

But we're also going to have smaller vignettes of Scripture throughout the

day, reading of Scripture.

Here, if you come to Family Radio, here in our headquarters in Alameda, we have several Scriptures on the wall.

One of them is Romans 10 -17, so then faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the Word of God.

Family Radio's core is just the proclamation without comment, the Word of

God.

So that will continue.

We want to make the quality of our program very consistent.

We want to use good radio formatics.

So we want Family Radio to sound consistent, whether

you're listening in the morning, evening, afternoon.

So we're getting ready also to launch some two new teaching programs on Sunday, morning and evening

worship service in the mornings on Sunday, as

well as the afternoons.

We're excited about that.

We're trying to make whatever teaching we have on Family Radio uniform.

So we don't have a broad cross -section, you know, or we have Reformed and then

Arminian, but rather all of Family Radio's preaching, teaching programs will remain

Reformed and salvation by grace.

So we're trying to make it consistent.

We are grateful to many of our ministry, our new ministry partners.

I just want to make mention that Family Radio recently, a couple of years ago, we became members again

of NRB, Outside the Christian Broadcast World.

All that means is NRB is the National Religious Broadcasters Association.

Family Radio has become, again, it's become a member of that organization and we want to become

a partner with them.

So we're excited about that.

They've embraced us, embraced Family Radio, and we're very thankful for the reception they gave us,

our team, a couple of years ago in Orlando.

So we also, you know, we don't sell, you know, Family Radio will remain non

-commercial.

We operate under the principle that we freely receive, freely give.

So everything that Family Radio does and is will remain free of charge.

So if somebody calls us and says, hey, I would like to order whatever we provide, whatever we offer, we

do so free of charge.

And that includes, we do not charge for airtime.

I think that we will continue that principle.

Family Radio will remain completely listener -supported.

We do trust that God will provide as He has provided for us.

We're also in the midst here at Family Radio dealing with what we call

network revitalization.

You know, Family Radio has a pretty broad network.

We have several stations that are, have been around for many years and has some aging.

So we're neck deep in network engineering

revitalization.

So we're excited about that too, so that Family Radio stations won't go off the air.

So we're also, you know, just focusing on trying to be a better partner.

And, you know, with local churches and pastors, we want

to be an encourager.

We want to encourage them.

We're talking about even having, you know, here at headquarters, inviting pastors to come

sit with us, pray with us.

We can be mutually encouraging to them.

And we also, you know, Family Radio has also been for many, many years, many

decades.

You know, I don't know if people know the fact that Family Radio broadcast, we used to have a shortwave facility in

Okeechobee, Florida, where we used to broadcast 50 different languages, Bible

reading.

Though we no longer do that, we still are very missions minded.

We know the gospel is needed overseas as well as it is here domestically.

So Family Radio continues to broadcast in Spanish a couple hours a day

from Okeechobee, Florida, as well as Mexico City.

So we have, you know, missions are indeed part of what we are, part

of Family Radio's DNA.

And we want to continue that.

So we pray that God will open doors for us in there.

So we continue to look for ways that we can improve our programming.

But we want to embrace those who really a lot of other radio

ministries have abandoned, and that is traditional, faithful, reformed,

but traditional music.

We want to continue in that.

We're also looking at producing some new programs that are just specifically

around a specific type of music, choral music or sacred music,

and that's yet to be developed.

So we're working on that.

We have a lot of work to do here.

And we would encourage those who are listening who may have listened to

Family Radio but went away because of what we, you know, the direction we went.

But now I would encourage you to give us another chance.

You know, let us, give us an opportunity to be of comfort to you.

Try to seek to edify you, the body of Christ.

And you can go to our website.

We have an entirely new website, familyradio .org.

And you can look and see, we have a station finder feature on

our website.

So if someone wants to go there and find out where Family Radio is, Family Radio is in their local area.

But also we have streaming.

So we would welcome you.

Come see what we're about.

Amen.

In fact, I wanted to.

Ask you something about the fact that when people call in or write in for things, you will send them

for free.

I was wondering if you could help me out with a late model automobile, perhaps a BMW, burnt

orange, preferably.

No, I'm only kidding.

We have Tony in Hayward, California, another first time questioner.

And Tony asks, how many members are at the Family

Radio Board of Directors, and how many of them support.

Returning to the faithful doctrine?

I'll say this, the Board of Directors, we are in unison around the mission of

proclaiming the gospel.

And that's all I'm going to say.

That's fine.

And as Tom has already said, it's a work in progress.

And if you do things too rapidly, they could collapse into an ash heap.

So just be patient and be prayerful about Family Radio.

And remember, as I have told people when they may have complaints about things not being

immediately the way that they want them to be, I have told them that the

addition, once again, of the voices of faithful pastors from around the United States

and around the world to even counteract anything that they don't like is

an enormous thing.

It's an enormous blessing, an enormous historical event

and transformation in broadcasting.

And I'm just asking my listeners to be patient with Family Radio.

I have never either worked for or heard a radio network where I agreed with every

single person on the station.

In fact, if you do, you probably are developing a cult

mindset if you agree with everything that somebody is teaching.

But I just thought I'd throw my two cents in about that.

Yeah, I mean, look, I've been blessed by, I mentioned this earlier, R .C.,

as well as Alistair.

In fact, I look, you know, I'm not going to say any more than I look forward to getting in my car, my truck.

And Chris, yeah, like you, I would love to have a new truck.

But, you know, and I can't wait to tune and listen

to Alistair.

I mean, he has blessed me as well as R .C. Sproul, as well as, in fact, my

wife last Sunday, she said, who is this guy?

Don't remember.

He's not familiar to me.

It was Dr. Boyce.

I said, yeah, he's on the air now.

And she said, I love him.

I think he's great.

So we're excited.

God's blessing.

Grateful to God that he has, and we're confident that he has more work for this ministry

to do.

We're grateful for the privilege of having anything to do with his gospel.

God indeed is a gracious Lord.

Amen.

Well, I'm very happy to hear that Alistair Begg has been added to your lineup, because that is also

a reassurance that even though you're exclusively Reformed at Family Radio, you are

including Reformed Baptists in the mix.

Yeah, indeed.

Opportunity.

As long as you're Reformed, of course.

Right.

By the way, Tony in Hayward, California, give us your full mailing address because you've also won, as a first

-time questioner, a free copy of the New American Standard Bible.

Well, I want you now, Tom, to have uninterrupted two minutes of time to

summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners when it comes to Family Radio.

I think one of the things that has struck me throughout this situation, throughout my experience, is

watching and seeing and experiencing God's faithfulness.

We all deserve—no, no, excuse me.

We do not deserve God's mercy, but yet I've seen it, day in and day out.

I've seen God's faithfulness.

He's never left me nor forsaken me personally.

I've seen him how he's had his hand on Family Radio, and I want all glory

to be to him.

And if God is going to use Family Radio in any way, to God

be the glory.

Amen.

Amen.

Well, Tom, I can't even tell you in the English language how deeply

grateful, deeply grateful I am to you for picking, above

all radio programs out there, picking Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to make this wonderful

announcement to the general public and the general Christian listening audience.

It is an honor and privilege and blessing that you have chosen Iron Sharpens Iron to be the vehicle to

announce this wonderful news.

Chris, may God bless you and give you grace, and may he continue to use you.

Don't grow weary, brother.

Well, I really appreciate it, and I want to thank my friend, Pastor Joe Jackowitz,

founder of First Love Radio, First Love Publications, and First Love Missions, and

also the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California, for helping to arrange

this interview with Tom Evans.

And Tom, if you could a couple of times repeat

the website, once again, for Family Radio, so our listeners can not only find out how they can listen

online, but how they can find local stations that might be nearby where they live.

Sure.

Be glad to.

Family Radio's website is simple, familyradio .org.

So that's Family Radio, just one word, or, you know, two words connected, familyradio

.org.

And let me just give our toll -free number as well, if you wouldn't mind.

Sure.

1 -800 -543 -1495.

So if anyone wants to call us, 1 -800 -543

-1495.

And Chris, again, thank you.

Pray that God will bless you and the ministry of our Iron Sharpens Iron.

May God give you grace in this day.

And I, too, thank Pastor Joe Jackowitz.

He's here with us right now, with me.

And I just want to thank him for all that he's done.

Amen.

Well, once again, I want to thank everybody who participated

in this program, especially you, Tom.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in.

I apologize to any who could not have their questions asked and answered today because of the limited time that we

have.

But I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.