May 21, 2019 Show with Joe Jacowitz on “Christian Maturity & Perseverance (As Taught in the Warning Passages of Hebrews)”

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, we're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 21st day of May 2019 and it is the week of the biannual

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastors' luncheon. I'm getting really vamped up, I'm getting really excited.

Can't wait to see my dear friend Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary when he flies in tomorrow, the day before the luncheon from Toronto.

He is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and he is going to be speaking at this

Thursday's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free luncheon for all men in ministry leadership.

He's going to be speaking on the theme, How the Dead Sea Scrolls Vindicate the Reliability of the

Bible. And as I've been reminding you every day, not only are the men in attendance going to be getting a free admission into this event, to eat for free, to feed spiritually upon a message by Dr.

Tony Costa for free, to have fun, fellowship, rest and relaxation and edification for free, but also every man is going to be leaving with heavy sacks of free brand new books donated by many major publishers and many publishers that are not so famous, but which are equally a blessing as far as the integrity and the wonderful things that they have brought into print.

And that includes a publishing ministry that has been founded by my guest today,

First Love Publications. Joe Jackowitz is my guest today, and I'll be introducing him in just a couple of minutes, but I just wanted to extend to all of you listening who have encouraged me during a bout with depression this week.

The last time I looked there were almost 300 people who have extended their prayers and their well wishes and their encouragement and comfort as this week, as it is typically when

I have my pastor's luncheon, is a mixed blessing because these luncheons that I have biannually now were founded by my precious late wife,

Julie. She started these luncheons in the 1990s. She wanted to bless my friends who were men in ministry predominantly.

She knew that I had an unusually high percentage of friends who are pastors, and she came up with the idea back in the 1990s, why don't we forego exchanging

Christmas gifts to each other to use that money to treat your pastor friends to a free luncheon. And I loved the idea, and we began doing that, and the luncheon grew so large we had to get corporate sponsorship eventually because we could no longer afford it on our own.

And every year I got publishers who generously donated copies of books

I selected from them so that each pastor would be leaving with a copy of each of those books.

And it's just grown and grown, and now I have them twice a year by God's grace, and this

Thursday is the next one. So it is a mixed blessing for me. It's a bittersweet time for me as I miss my precious wife.

So I thank all of you who have been reaching out to me. And also, those of you who have been blessing me with financial gifts as you have heard me cry out for help lately because of the recent loss of a very large advertising client for very understandable reasons, a church that had several families move away, leaving them in a really big financial hole that they have to have time to climb out of before they return to sponsoring this program.

So I thank all of you who have responded to my

SOS and who have donated and who have continued to come in to donate to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

We still, even though this month is on its way to being taken care of, we still have

June ahead of us, so please don't stop donating if you have the extra resources to do so. And those of you who haven't done it yet, please, we urgently need your donations.

But I also want to thank my guest, Joe Jackiewicz, who is one of those individuals who sent in a donation.

But now let me introduce my dear friend, Joe Jackiewicz, who is the pastor -at -large at Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated.

And he is also the founder and president of First Love Radio, First Love Missions, and First Love Publications.

And today we're going to be addressing Christian maturity and perseverance as taught in the warning passages of Hebrews.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Joe Jackiewicz. Thank you,

Chris. Great to be with you again, as always. And we pray that the

Lord will indeed provide for all of your needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

The Lord has gotten you through so many difficult times in the past for many, many, many years, and I trust that He will continue to uphold you by His grace, especially now as your program is growing.

It's growing pretty well, especially on First Love Radio. We see the expansion of Iron Sharpens Iron into other areas throughout the world.

So we're very encouraged about the direction of the program and the

Lord's blessing on the program. We're hearing from listeners all over the world.

In fact, if you don't mind, I'm going to read an email that I got today from a listener in Nigeria.

And he mentions your name. He is familiar with you, Joe. And let me read this letter.

I'm now enlarging the font on his email. Dear Chris, I have become an ardent listener of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio from Nigeria, Africa.

In fact, I wrote a blog post to promote your show among my friends. And he provides the link there.

And he shared his concerns that there were not updates recently of the new shows, the podcasts on the website.

And I explained to him that my webmaster is very busy. He has a full -time job, and he does our webmaster work voluntarily.

So he sometimes falls behind. But he also says, I live in Ibadan, and I may have mispronounced that, in Nigeria.

There are no Reformed churches here, but I associate with one Reformed church in Lagos, Nigeria, pastored by Tony Okoro.

He's a pastor in close association with Pastor Joe Jakowitz of First Love Ministries in the

United States. And he wants me to interview Pastor Tony, and I would love to do so.

But it was just a great encouragement to hear from another new listener on the

African continent. There seems to be a growing number of people in Africa who have fallen in love with Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Yes, indeed. And First Love Missions, which works closely with First Love Radio, and of course your program, is benefited by the expansion of First Love Radio and First Love Missions because we bring the news of First Love Radio throughout the world.

And of course your program, Iron Sharpens Iron, is the program that anchors our radio station.

And we're just so delighted to have you as such an important part of this ministry. And so when we spread the word in other countries, when we go overseas with our missions teams to teach seminars and preach at Bible conferences and churches, and actually do missionary radio programs on radio stations overseas, people all over the world, especially in the third world, are directed to First Love Radio.

And one of the programs they're very excited about is your two -hour interview program, Iron Sharpens Iron.

So we're really blessed to have this partnership together. Amen. Well, I understand that you just returned from a mission trip that you want to discuss before we go into our major theme, which is

Christian maturity and perseverance. But tell us about the mission trip that you were on. Okay, well,

I didn't attend this one. Usually I go on most of them, but Pastor Austin Huggins, our vice president of operations at First Love Missions, led this team of seven or eight,

I think it was eight individuals. Several of them were pastors. And they went from April 24th through May 5th, so they've been back for a couple of weeks now.

This year we have expanded into new areas of the Philippines.

We've gone to the Philippines now six or seven times throughout the last ten years or so.

We went to the island of Mindanao a couple of times. But the last two trips, which we usually take in April, we have focused our attention on the island of Luzon, which is the largest island among several thousand islands in the

Philippines in the north. Manila, the capital, is located on the big island of Luzon.

And so our team of seven went there. And this year the conference theme was The Treasure of the

Gospel in the Wasteland. The theme was a continuation from the previous year, which title was

Famine in the Land, What's Wrong with Preaching Today? As the last theme addressed various aspects of preaching, the current theme addressed the center pillar of the preacher's message.

This time we focused on the gospel, and we preached the gospel and other doctrines in the midst of so much ignorance, not only in the

Philippines but all over, and so much compromise as well in the church today. So we started off with a conference in Marikina, which is an area close to Manila.

We ended up preaching four conferences, Bible conferences, most of whom were attended by pastors, a couple of conferences in the southern area close to Manila, and a couple conferences in the northern area.

And we ended up in, or they ended up in, Baguio City, which is six hours north by way of CAR of Manila.

And the pastors were very thankful, and also they preached at churches and other meetings where many books, booklets, and tracts were given away, not only to pastors but to the believers.

They received bags of books. And we are thankful for our ministry partners,

Chapel Library out of Pensacola, Florida, and Dr. Peter Masters of the

Metropolitan Tabernacle. His printing ministry is Wakeman Books, and they regularly contribute and donate hundreds, thousands of Dr.

Masters' books on critical topics that the church is facing, and so we're very, very grateful for these ministry partners.

They preached in an area called Valenzuela and to a conference of about 100 pastors.

They also preached on the Lord's Day in various churches in the area that they had conducted the conference.

One of the conferences, or one of the churches, hosted a gathering of a number of other churches, several churches together, where Pastor Huggins preached on the topic of the gospel and depression.

And then they continued to move north until they reached the

Baguio City area. They preached in a variety of locations and settings this year.

Some of the brethren went into the prisons and preached there. Dr. Paul Nelson, one of our missionary team members, preached or taught a seminar at a local university there in the

Baguio City area on the topic of the Bible and evolution. And so these secular university students gathered to hear a lecture on how evolution is indeed a religion.

You have to put faith in it. And he exposed the false tenets of evolution through biblical teaching.

And so also they spent three days on the radio in Baguio City, as we did last year, two hours each day.

They had a live call -in program, a Q &A program, where they took questions from listeners, and they taught on essential basic doctrines of the faith, as well as they shared the gospel.

And they emphasized the importance of commitment and accountability and counting the cost in our walk with the

Lord. So all in all, the team preached. They also preached to 50 police officers at a training academy.

And like I said, they also preached in Baguio City in the prison system. And they preached in another prison to female inmates as well.

And they also preached on the side of the road when construction workers were gathered together and passersby gathered and just sat in the chairs that were out there.

And one of our brothers, Stephen Lewis, preached a sermon to them. And so they had many different settings in which they delivered the gospel.

And it was a very effective missions trip this year, the

Lord opening doors in other areas that we don't normally preach in. There were more

Macedonian calls and requests from pastors to come to their cities next year and expand into their areas.

So it seems like each year that we go back, we're getting invitations to go into new areas as well as preach in the older areas.

And so we had also a new ministry that First Love is launching, has already launched, but it's in the preparation stage,

Grace Bible University, which is a free quality theological education and certificate program that's under development with First Love Ministries.

We're also going to have a Bachelor of Theology, a Master of Divinity program as well, and an

AA degree, an associate's degree. And our Philippine branch of Grace Bible University was planted there in Baguio City.

So there's a full report that was written about this Philippines trip.

I just touched the surface. Our listeners can go to a website, our

First Love Missions website, and read the full report. The website address is www .missionsfirstlove

.org. That's missionsfirstlove .org, and you can download the report or read it online.

Praise God. And we'll hopefully be repeating that information later on in the broadcast.

Well, the theme that we are addressing today is Christian Maturity and Perseverance as Taught in the

Warning Passages of Hebrews. Hebrews, sorry for the mispronunciation. If you could recite for us first the five warnings contained in that letter, perhaps you could even give us your own personal view on who wrote this letter, because there is debate amongst even

Christians that are nearly in lockstep or even very much in lockstep, theologically and doctrinally, who they disagree.

I know I have very good friends who are Reformed Baptists who disagree as to the authorship of Hebrews.

But if you have a view, let us know. And also tell us about the five warnings. Oh, there's no question in my mind that Hebrews was written by the

Apostle Paul. I think the evidence is overwhelming. Yes, there are clues that someone else might be the author of Hebrews, but I think, like I said, the evidence is overwhelming.

I think the book of Hebrews is one of the most important books in the

New Testament or in the Bible as a whole because of the two major themes, which are the superiority of Christ over the

Old Testament and, secondly, the theme of pressing on to maturity or persevering in the faith.

The first theme, the superiority of Christ, is critical for so many reasons. The second theme is very practical and works hand in hand with the first theme.

You cannot persevere unless you have an active ministry and a preserving ministry of the

Lord Jesus Christ in your life. The background of the book of Hebrews, I think, relates to believers of every generation.

The first century believers, most of them, after the

Lord's resurrection and ascension, after the Church was established for the next 30 or 40 years, most of the believers were

Jews who had converted to Christ. And after 30 or 40 years, many of those

Jews were looking back at their old life, and it was looking very good for them.

They were being tempted to go back to the world and their old life of living for self and sin.

Remember, a Jewish believer who put his trust in Christ was ostracized by the

Jewish community. They were excommunicated from the temple or their local synagogue. They were rejected by their families.

They were put out of their families. They were disfellowshipped. They were cast out of the community, in many cases.

Sometimes killed. Sometimes killed. Their goods were plundered and stolen. They were basically left with nothing.

They trusted Christ, and they also had to trust Christ to save their life or preserve their life.

And the believers, the Gentile believers many times, and sometimes the Jewish believers, were really responsible for taking these

Jewish believers into their homes and into the Church and providing for them. But after 30 or 40 years, many of these

Jews were longing to see their wives again, their husbands, their children, their friends.

And many of them were deprived of their livings, and they were without just the basics.

And they looked back, and the world was looking pretty good to them again. And so some of them began to apostatize, literally apostatize, from the faith and going back, denying

Christ, and going back to their old life of living for self. Some of them had the seeds of apostasy, and they were being pulled in that direction.

So the book of Hebrews was written to elevate Christ, not only in doctrines and teachings about the person and work of Christ, especially his high priesthood as seen in chapters 7 through 10, but Christ as the remedy and solution to these wandering, backsliding

Jews that were quickly heading towards reprobation or apostasy.

I'm talking about backslidden Jewish believers who were, many of them, just one step away, a hair's breadth away from apostasy.

And so Hebrews was written to show them that going back is not going to help them.

And to do that, the apostle Paul elevates the Lord Jesus Christ to a place of fulfillment, to a place of perfection, that Jesus Christ is the final destination, that the scriptures and all teaching and doctrine and the biblical theology that is the progress of redemption and our understanding of it in the

Old Testament, everything was heading towards Christ as the fulfillment, as the one who would purchase and accomplish our salvation as the one who would preserve us and keep us, as the one who would glorify us.

And so there was no place else to go except to the Lord Jesus Christ. And the apostle

Paul shows and demonstrates a great contrast between Jesus and the entirety of the

Old Testament. He does this in chapters 1 through 6, where he shows in chapter 1 that Christ is better than the prophets, again in chapter 1 that Christ is better than the angels, in chapter 3 he demonstrates that Christ is better than Moses, chapter 4 he's better than Aaron, all the way through chapter 5 until chapter 6, verse 20.

So the first 6 chapters of Hebrews demonstrates the superiority of Christ over the prophets, the angels,

Moses, and Aaron. And so the first warning passage we find in Hebrews 2, and verses 1 through 4, which is a warning about drifting from the word of God.

The second warning passage is in chapter 3, verse 1, through chapter 4, verse 13.

It's a very long passage, or I'm sorry, chapter 3, verse 7, through chapter 4, verse 13, and that is a warning about doubting the word.

And then the third passage of exhortation and warning is chapter 4, verse 14, through chapter 6, and verse 20, which is an exhortation about dullness toward the word of God.

And then we come to the real core of Hebrews, which is chapters 7 through 10, where the

Lord shows the superiority of Christ's priesthood over the

Levitical priesthood. These 4 chapters are the core teaching on the high priesthood of Christ, or the priesthood of Christ in general, where in chapter 7 he shows that Christ's priesthood is a superior order than the

Levitical priesthood. In chapter 8, that Christ's priesthood has a superior covenant.

Chapter 9, a superior sanctuary. And chapter 10, a superior sacrifice.

So Christ's priesthood in the Melchizedek priesthood compared to the

Levitical or the Aaronic priesthood has a superior order, covenant, sanctuary, and sacrifice.

But in chapter 10, verses 26 through 39, we have the fourth warning passage against despising the word of God.

And then we come to the third section of Hebrews, which is a superior principle, faith.

So we see that Christ is a superior person compared to the prophets, angels,

Moses, and Aaron in the first 6 chapters. And then he has a superior priesthood, as seen in chapters 7, 8, 9, and 10, compared to the

Levitical priesthood, Christ being in the Melchizedek priesthood. And then a superior principle, which is faith, in chapters 11 through 13.

And then the fifth exhortation is found in chapter 12, verses 14 through 29, which is a warning against defying the word of God.

So these Jewish believers were really struggling, and these five warning passages exhort them and challenge them against drifting from the word, doubting the word, dullness towards the word, and despising the word, and defying the word of God.

In fact, we'll pick up right where you left off there, when we return from our first break. If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

U .S .A. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Joe Jakowitz, and our theme, Christian Maturity and Perseverance, is taught in the warning passages of Hebrews.

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We're back now with Joe Jackowitz, our guest today. And he is speaking on Christian maturity and perseverance as taught in the warning passages of Hebrews.

And before I go to a listener question, Joe, I completely forgot to mention a very important aspect of your life for the sake especially of those who are hearing you for the first time today.

I know that you are a pastor in Dublin, California. If you could tell us about that church. Yes, we're about 30 miles east of San Francisco in an area called the

Tri -Valley area. We actually meet in Pleasanton, California.

And if you're interested in visiting us, we have a website at ChristBibleChurch .org.

ChristBibleChurch .org. We live in a state that is very much militantly hostile towards Christianity.

And there are masses of people, both believers and unbelievers, leaving the state all the time.

So there's a mission field all around us. And this is the normal context in which the church has operated since its inception where there's been resistance and hostility against believers and against Christ and his church.

But we're here in northern California. It's a beautiful area. The weather's great. And there's a lot of souls that need to be saved here.

We started in 1990. Our 30th anniversary as a church is coming up in February of next year.

Were you the first pastor? I'm sorry? Yes, yes. Wow. Right from the beginning.

Yeah, 30 years next February. They haven't thrown you out yet, huh? No, these precious saints at Christ Bible Church have been very gracious and patient with me for 30 years.

I don't know how they've done it except by God's grace. Wow, that's very rare for a pastor to have that kind of longevity at one church.

And I'm assuming Dublin is the mailing address. That's where I got Dublin from. Yes, the mailing address is

Dublin, but... Dublin, California. Yes, Dublin, California. And we actually have our worship services in Pleasanton, California, which is right next to Dublin.

And you are a Reformed Baptist church. Correct. Why don't you give our listeners one more time the website.

Okay, it's ChristBibleChurch .org. And you can find out everything about us.

We have quite a few things that we offer on the website. And, of course, our Statement of Faith is there.

Directions and the address, the mailing address, the address where we have our worship services, that's at ChristBibleChurch .org.

Okay, well, hopefully we'll remember to announce that again later on in the show. We have a listener who chooses to remain anonymous.

And the listener says, I have many dear friends and brothers in Christ who are

Presbyterian and other Pado -Baptists. And it is frustrating to me how convinced they are of their position, but isn't the book of Hebrews an ideal place to turn regarding a proof for the

Reformed Baptist concept of Credo -Baptism, and also more to the point that only

God's truly elect people are members of the covenant, because Christ mediates on behalf of all those in the covenant.

And it is a mystery to me how someone could believe that a non -elect person could have

Christ's mediation on their behalf. And our anonymous listener is obviously referring to the fact that many

Presbyterians, I don't want to go too far to say they all believe this, but many Presbyterians believe a child becomes a member of the new covenant by virtue of the baptism, their baptism, whether or not they are of the elect.

They believe that there are reprobates in the new covenant who are baptized, obviously no one knows who the reprobate are, so they are baptized as little infants or even as adults if they come to faith later in life, and did not have parents that were believers.

But the concept of the regenerate church, the regenerate membership of the new covenant, is our anonymous listener making sense to you here?

Yes, indeed. The entirety of the book of Hebrews depicts a believer struggling with sin, and tempted with worldliness, and really agonizing in the depths of his or her soul with their faith, whether they will be faithful, whether they will persevere to the end, whether they will lay hold of the promises of God and the grace of Christ and the power of the

Holy Spirit to help them persevere from day to day. The picture of a believer's pilgrimage and walk in the book of Hebrews is one where we see the believer, the normal Christian life, as a great, agonizing, difficult path in which we all as Christians walk.

We will be tempted, we will have our faith tried to its very core and essence, we will be tempted to go back to our old life, we will be tempted to slow down our progress in the faith and revert back to babyhood and not mature in the faith, and so many trials of faith will come to us, and only the one who has the

Holy Spirit, only the one who is born from above, and looks to Christ as Hebrews chapters 7 -10 teach us, look to Christ as our

High Priest, clinging to Him, hoping in Him, looking to Him and trusting in Him for the grace to overcome every weight and sin that does so easily beset us.

This is the picture of not only the battle but also sanctification, the struggle with the world of flesh and the devil along the way, and only our great

High Priest will enable us to finish that, finish the race and complete our journey here in this world.

And so I don't know how a covenantal or purely positional view of sanctification and of perseverance and of Christian maturity in an infant will really relate to that child and include that child in the covenant.

I just don't see that happening from the perspective of Hebrews.

Now, of course, a child who is an elect child, and we cannot know that, but a child who is truly an elect child is a member of the covenant.

We just cannot be certain of it until they demonstrate that through repentance and faith.

Right, but our Presbyterian brethren would argue for the larger view that any baptized child is part of the covenant, and we just don't know who that is.

And 1 Corinthians 3 and other passages clearly teach us that our job is to sow and water, but God's job is to give the increase in His elect at His time and in His way and to leave that to Him.

And there are, as I said, there are Presbyterians that do not agree with their fellow Pado -Baptist brethren on that.

There are Presbyterians that actually agree with Reformed Baptists, even though they practice infant baptism, they agree with us that only regenerate, or should

I say, only elect people are in the covenant and reprobate are not in the covenant.

Although all of us, even Reformed Baptists, treat people as if they are members of the covenant that have a profession of repentance and faith that eventually sometimes turn out to be false converts, so we understand that sometimes we wrongly treat, just because of the fact that we are not omniscient, we wrongly treat reprobates as a part of the covenant just because we have not yet seen their apostasy or their evidences of false faith.

But at the same time, there are denominations like the Protestant Reformed Church and others that do believe, as we do, that only the elect are truly in the new covenant.

We have a Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks a question that is somewhat similar to this.

A Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, says, does not the book of Hebrews totally destroy the false notion of our

Presbyterian brethren that there is one covenant with two administrations? Absolutely.

The book of Hebrews depicts that everything in the

Bible has been moving in the direction of Christ fulfilling the ceremonial law, all of the prophecies, all of the metaphors, types, and figures of the

Old Testament, and it depicts Christ as the completion and perfection of our faith compared with the weakness and limitation of the

Old Testament elements of the covenant, the old covenant, the prophets,

Moses, Aaron, the Levitical priesthood, the temple service. All of these things were but types and figures pointing to their completion in the

Lord Jesus Christ, as well as the service itself in the Old Testament temple and tabernacle and the

Levitical order, and everything about the Mosaic economy had great weakness.

But everything has been moving towards its fulfillment in the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Well, thank you,

Christian. And by the way, Christian, since you live on Long Island, don't forget that Dr.

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, after he finishes his speaking engagement at my pastor's luncheon in Pennsylvania, we are both heading out to Long Island to a number of churches in Nassau and Suffolk County, so we hope that you can attend as many of these events as possible, and I can send you a complete itinerary of Dr.

Costa's speaking engagements if you send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Dr. Costa's Long Island itinerary or something similar. You can even just put

Tony Costa in the subject line. And just to rattle off the names of the churches now,

New Hyde Park Baptist Church is where he will be speaking Friday night, May 24th, and Saturday morning,

May 25th. Wading River Baptist Church in Suffolk County is where he'll be speaking

Saturday evening, May 25th, 6 to 8, 30 p .m.,

and then on Sunday morning at both 9 .45 a .m. and 11 a .m.,

he will be speaking at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, that's Sunday, May 26th.

And finally, for the evening service, on Sunday, May 26th at 5 p .m., he will be speaking at Missio Church in Ridge, Long Island, New York.

And the itinerary that I have has all the contact information, the subjects that will be addressed, et cetera.

So send me an email if you'd like to attend and spread the word about Dr. Costa being on Long Island, New York, this weekend after the

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Passers launch it. We have to go to our midway break already, believe it or not.

This is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break because they use this time to air their own commercials and public service announcements to localize

Grace Life Radio to Lake City, Florida, a requirement of the FCC. They have to air their own public service announcements and things that are local to the station.

So while they air their commercials during this break, we air our own that are heard globally. So please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently patronize them and more successfully patronize them because we depend on our advertisers to exist.

For those of you who get annoyed by hearing a lot of commercials, just always keep in mind Iron Trip and Zion Radio cannot exist without the funding from those advertisements.

And also use this time to send in a question for Joe Jakowitz on Christian maturity and perseverance as taught in the warning passages of Hebrews.

You can also, we'll accept questions on even a broader spectrum of issues regarding theology.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, we'll be back after these messages with more of Joe Jakowitz on Christian maturity and perseverance.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

.nyc. Have a great day. Hey, this is

Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy Award winning Christian rock band, Petra. I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called

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I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit. Each episode is unproduced, unedited, and unapologetic.

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Can't wait for you to join us. God bless. I'm Pastor Billy Lenhardt of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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Gary Cambrail, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

Kabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

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Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443.

Or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com. Again, the address is

Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443.

Or bbclaurel .com. Thank you. Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the Pastor's Study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

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And also, I just have a few upcoming announcements regarding events that I hope that you attend, if you can.

The first is one that's taking place this Thursday. I already mentioned it, but it bears repeating. My free pastor's luncheon for all men in ministry leadership at the

Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. That's this Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. Featuring my guest speaker, Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He'll be speaking on the theme, How the Dead Sea Scrolls Vindicate the Reliability of the Bible. Every man in attendance will receive free brand new books by many major Christian publishers in the

United States and the United Kingdom. And I just got a confirmation from our friends at First Love Publications.

Tom Smith confirmed that he is coming out, or should I say coming up, here to Pennsylvania to bring books with him to give away to the pastors from First Love Publications.

He's bringing volunteers with him, and we're so delighted that he will be there. And many other publishers have already donated books as well.

So if you want to register for this free luncheon, if you are a man in ministry leadership, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com

Dr. Tony Costa will be speaking on Long Island right after that. He will be packing up his bags along with me, and I'll be heading out with him to New York, where he will be speaking at a number of different churches.

So if you want an itinerary of these churches, all you have to do is email me at chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and I'll email you the itinerary.

Those events, those speaking engagements on Long Island are open to everyone, man, woman, or child, Christian or non -Christian.

So we look forward to seeing as many of you as possible at those events. Then, after that,

I am packing up my bags again and heading back to Pennsylvania, but this time I'm heading back to the

Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, to the Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference on the theme

I Believe in the Holy Spirit. This is also only for men in ministry leadership, and you can register at banneroftruth .org,

banneroftruth .org. It's being held next Tuesday through Thursday, the 28th through the 30th of May, and the speakers include

Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, Steve Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas. Go to banneroftruth .org,

banneroftruth .org, click on events, and then scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference. Then, later on in the year, in December, on Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th,

I am returning to my old stomping grounds in Manhattan to the Foundations Conference, which is a conference orchestrated by sermonaudio .com.

This is going to be another great conference, I'm sure, because the lineup, as always, is spectacular.

Steven J. Lawson, whose name, or whose voice, you've been hearing every day promoting

New Covenant Church NYC on this show, he is going to be one of the speakers.

He is the founder of One Passion Ministries, and one of the finest preachers alive on the planet

Earth today. Paul Washer, another extraordinary preacher. Reverend Jeff Thomas, another extraordinary preacher.

Reverend Armin Tamasian, who I keep telling you is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade.

He is such a gifted and powerful speaker, a young man, but with gifts and abilities far beyond his youth.

And I look forward to hearing him again. Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are two men

I have not yet heard preach, but since Sermon Audio selected them, they must be remarkable speakers.

So if you want to register for this conference for Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, go to thefoundationsconference .com

and they have a small venue that holds less than 200 people, so register as quickly as possible if you intend to attend.

And then, in January, I am heading back to Atlanta, more specifically, to the

College Park, Georgia, area where the Georgia International Convention Center is located for the

G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. That's Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th.

The theme this January is Worship Matters, and the speakers include another phenomenal lineup,

Kosti Hinn, a remarkable young man, a young pastor, Reformed Baptist pastor in California, who is actually the nephew of the notorious heretic and charlatan,

Benny Hinn. Kosti Hinn doesn't make any bones about that. He has repented of the word -of -faith heresies that he was raised in, and he spends much of his time exposing this heretical movement as the dangerous and deadly and damning movement that it is.

He is going to be speaking at this conference. David Miller, who is one of these old -school fire -and -brimstone preachers, but also that has the love and compassion and tenderness of Jesus Christ in his words, and I am looking forward to hearing him again.

Derek Thomas, who is definitely no stranger to Reformed Christians, is on the lineup. My dear friend since 1995,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries will be there. My friend Dr. Joel Beeky, also a friend of mine since the 1990s, is speaking.

Josh Bice, founder of the G3 Conference. And once again, Paul Washer and Stephen J.

Lawson, they are on the roster at this conference as well. And my friend Dr. Tom Askell, who

I have known for many years, he is the executive director of Founders Ministries, the Calvinistic movement within the

Southern Baptist Convention. And Voli Baucom is also on the roster, and he is truly an extraordinary man of God.

If you want to register, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitors booth, just like I will be manning, if you have a business, a church, or a parachurch ministry that you want to promote, because they are expecting, as they receive every year, over 5 ,000 people in attendance.

So, please register for the exhibitors booth and attendance, of course, at g3conference .com,

g3conference .com, and please tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Orens and Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio. Last but not least, if you love this show, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, please,

I'm urging you, go to ironshepherdsironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. And, you know,

I really feel very uncomfortable doing this every day, asking you for money. There are so many false ministries out there.

There are so many charlatans who just do nothing but beg people for money, and I don't even like to be in any way associated with those kinds of ministries.

But if you listen to the show daily, you know that I get the finest in men of integrity and women of integrity on this program as my guests.

And so, therefore, obviously, your money is, if you agree with our theology, your money is well spent.

Please help us, because we have lost a large advertising client that was actually spending enough money to pay for my monthly rent.

So, please, if you could go to ironshepherdsironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

We will be forever grateful for whatever you could give. I thank all of you who have been coming to the rescue and helping me in this regard.

You have answered my SOS, and I will never be able to thank you enough, all of you who have been donating.

And if you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put advertising in the subject line, because we definitely need your advertising dollars as long as you're promoting something that is compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to believe identically with what I believe, but you need to be promoting something compatible with what I believe. And if you are not a member of a local

Bible -believing church, and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God, so please rectify that.

I have biblically faithful churches, I have lists of biblically faithful churches from all over the world, and I have already helped quite a number of people in our audience find churches, not only where they have become members, but also those that are vacationing who have asked me to help find them churches, and also people who have asked me to help them find churches for their loved ones, their relatives.

Please, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put I need a church home or something like that in the subject line.

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Never do that, please. Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Those are two things that are commands of God.

Providing for my radio show is not a command of God. But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and home, and you have extra money for benevolent purposes, please, if you love the show and you don't want us to go away, please donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can at irontripandzionradio .com

Click support, then click to donate now. And there's also a mailing address that appears on the screen if you prefer mailing in a check made out to Iron Trip and Zion via snail mail.

And we are now back with our guest for the remaining hour, a little less than an hour, about 40 minutes.

We have Joe Jackowitz, and he is discussing Christian maturity and perseverance as taught in the warning passages of Hebrews.

If you'd like to join us in the air with a question of your own for Joe Jackowitz, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com And as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's see.

We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, are not the words of Hebrews especially comforting to God's true people because how on earth can you believe that a true child of God could ever lose his or her salvation when we have

Christ as our mediator? It is amazing that there are brethren in Christ who believe that true, regenerate, born -again people can lose their salvation even though Christ is standing in mediation for them.

It makes no sense to me. Can you please comment? Well, you're right.

And there are two aspects. A double -edged sword to what you're suggesting.

The first is that Hebrews warns those who profess Christ but are not converted to make sure that their salvation is secure by pressing forward towards true regeneration by faith in Jesus Christ alone.

And also, secondly, comforts believers with so many consoling truths about the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. In particular, His high priestly efforts on our behalf.

He prays for us. He intercedes for us. He supplicates for us. He pleads our cause.

And since He knows all of our weaknesses and knows all about our spiritual and other needs,

He is able to articulate with perfection and pathos and compassion before the

Father exactly what we need. And He does so effectively. And that's why we're still in the faith if we are a believer.

Yeah. Very often, in fact, probably most often, those

Christians that believe a truly born -again person can lose their salvation, they misunderstand what we who are

Reformed believe about this. We believe in perseverance and preservation of the saints. And at least the majority of us especially historically who wear the label

Reformed or Calvinist or Sovereign Grace believing, we do not agree with the hordes of evangelicals who say that a person should be guaranteed that they are saved just because they verbally profess faith in Christ at an altar call or something and then continue to live for decades unrepentantly until they die.

This is a heresy that we who are Reformed reject.

And this is not the doctrine of perseverance and preservation of the saints. Although it does not teach sinless perfection, it does teach that we will have lives marked by repentance of our sin, that we will not wallow and surrender to and become enslaved permanently by our sin.

And there will be a marked difference of repentance in our lives. So therefore, the five -point

Arminian who believes that we are teaching easy -believism is in error when they make that accusation against us.

Am I right? Right. The warning passages of Hebrews are not teaching we can lose our salvation at all.

They are just warning true believers to press on in maturity those who were slipping backwards and returning to the fundamental elementary things of the faith.

He's challenging them to press on and mature in their faith.

And he's not suggesting that they can lose their salvation. The first warning passage in Hebrews 2, 1 -4 says,

Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest we drift away.

For the word spoken through angels, if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the

Lord and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders with various miracles and gifts of the

Holy Spirit according to His own will. So the purpose of this and all the warnings is to encourage

Christians to prevent their disastrous fall by paying attention to God's word and obeying it.

In each one of these five passages, there's a common thread of listening to the word, obey the word, pay attention to the word, and these admonitions become stronger as we progress through the book from drifting from God's word to defying

God's word, which is the theme of the last warning passage in chapter 12. Now God is saying

He doesn't sit idly by and permit His children to rebel against Him. He will continue to speak and when necessary He chastens us.

As He says in chapter 12, Whom the Lord loves, He chastens and don't despise the chastening of the

Lord. So it's God's love for His children that motivates Him to chastise us, which ultimately is the active agent in preserving our souls from falling away.

You see, in this warning passage in Hebrews 2, there are believers whom

God is exhorting not to neglect your profession of faith. And it's not an option because it's not how you start that matters, it's how you finish.

Perseverance and the human responsibility element of it is not an option, even though it is the

Lord who works in us and through us to accomplish His good pleasure and He alone by His power and grace is our preservation and our perseverance, yet we must not be indifferent or apathetic about doing our part.

And when we step out in faith, trusting that God will speak to us as we meditate on the

Word, as we pray, as we use all the means of grace to their fullest, it is the

Holy Spirit who will work through those means by faith in Christ to stir us up and quicken us and prevent drifting and backsliding.

And so there's the danger here as we read in verse 1 that we must give the more earnest heed to the things that we've heard lest we drift away.

So the danger is that of neglecting our salvation. Paul's not saying rejecting as in rejecting

Christ because true believers cannot reject one they've already received and are saved, but he's talking about neglecting.

And so there are more spiritual problems caused by neglect than perhaps by any other failure on our part.

If we neglect God's Word and prayer and worship with God's people and other opportunities for spiritual growth, we'll start to drift away.

And this is the warning, and many of these first -century believers did not take heed to these warnings.

But now in verse 3 he says, How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the

Lord and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him? The argument now moves from the lesser to the greater.

If those who broke the Old Testament law were punished, a law delivered by angels, what will happen to those who disobey the gospel?

You see, we have the idea that believers who are under grace can escape the chastening hand of God and the strict accountability that came by being under the law.

But believers, though they are forgiven of sin, are held to a stricter standard because to whom much is given, much shall be required.

And in those whom he loves and in those he chases. Exactly, that's what I started out saying.

And he continues this passage in the second warning in chapter 3, verse 7.

He says, Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion in the day of trial in the wilderness where your fathers tested me, tried me, and saw my works forty years.

Therefore, I was angry with that generation and said, They always go astray in their heart and they've not known my way.

So I swore in my wrath they shall not enter my rest. And God continually draws upon the illustration in the book of Hebrews reinforcing these five warning passages.

He draws upon Israel as the classic example of people who continually drew back.

They momentarily were faithful, but it was mostly superficial. And then God targets the heart as the real core issue of the matter.

In chapter 2, Paul showed that Christ is superior to angels primarily because He's God and the angels are just messengers.

And that in His humanity, Christ is a sympathetic high priest. But in chapter 3, he points out that Moses, like Christ, was faithful to God.

So the discussion about Moses naturally leads into the second warning passage based on Israel and their experience in the wilderness.

Unlike the first warning passage, which we just read in chapter 2, 1 -4, which dealt with Christ's superiority to angels, this warning has to do with Israel's unbelief and their disobedience as a result.

So the readers are urged to believe God's promise to give them the

Sabbath rest that the Israelites never obtained. Of course, this Sabbath rest that is brought up in chapter 3, 12 -4, 11, it points us to the

Lord Jesus Christ. And so, this has troubled many people, as you suggested, for it seems to imply that being a member of Christ's church, a person could be lost after they have gained salvation by wavering or backsliding or being close to reprobation.

But the statement is more here of a description than a condition, a permanent condition.

It tells us that courage and hope are the continuing marks of those who belong to Christ.

They will be drawn back to Christ with cords of love, yet they are not to remain passive and think that they will go to heaven and be drawn back on beds of ease, but through diligence and perseverance.

Humanly speaking, they must do their part. They must obey the Lord. They must pay attention.

They must take heed to the Word of God. They must not drift away and absent themselves from the preaching and teaching of the

Word of God, from all the many forms in which the Word of God comes to us, both in corporate worship, in the regulative principle of the

Word and preaching, as well as private reading, meditation, and many other ways in which we can be exhorted, taught, and challenged and quickened by the

Word of God. The Word of God is a critical means to keep us not only faithful, but to have us grow and mature and progress in the

Christian life. And that was the problem that he brings up in the second and in the third warning passage, where he talks about by this time you ought to be teachers, but you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God.

And you have come to need milk and not solid food, for everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

So the issue of the heart, which is so weak, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it, is brought up.

And the issue of unbelief, is brought up, which were the two classic problems with the

Israelites. Their hearts were not faithful to Christ, they were not loyal to Christ, they were weak, they didn't guard their hearts, they didn't protect their hearts.

The Bible says, out of the heart flows the issues of life. And so whoever has your heart, has you.

And the second problem was, their unbelief resulted not only in disobedience, but a weakening of the grace of God in them, so that when the word of God did come to them, their hearts were so hardened, their consciences were so defiled, that they did not pay attention to the word, they were not edified and profited by the word, to return to God, repent of their sin, and then from there, move and progress forward in maturity.

You see, so many Christians are static and stagnant in their faith, and they're not progressing, because they're not guarding their heart, and they're not renewing the grace of God in themselves every day by faith in Jesus Christ, and through repentance.

Now, the very things that you're saying about Israel, I think further drive home the fact that there are two covenants, one that is better, being the new covenant, than the old, and one of the reasons why the new covenant is better than the old, is because God, knowing that even

His chosen people, Israel, who had a covenant with Him, were continually disobedient in breaking that covenant, and therefore,

God promised that there would be a covenant where He removed the hearts of stone of His people, and replaced them with hearts of flesh, as we see in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, and in Hebrews, that we need new hearts, and that is one of the great assurances of the new covenant, that God will not leave us who are truly

His elect in a state of rebellion if indeed we are

His elect and have been chosen by Him, whether we are Jew or Gentile, He removes our hearts of stone and gives us hearts of flesh.

Isn't this like one of the most precious promises that we have? Yes, it is, and we're told in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel, as you implied, that there's a new covenant coming that will be based not on works, the old covenant as well was not based on works in terms of the way a person becomes saved.

From the beginning, it was always, salvation was always by grace through faith, through all of the pre -Israeli historical events and the epoch of Israel's time and now, during this present age over the last 2 ,000 years, church age, salvation has always been based on grace.

We're saved by the grace of God through faith in the Messiah, through faith in Jesus Christ, God's Son.

But the two covenants showed the difference between a law -oriented covenant and a grace -oriented covenant.

And the matter of grace and the power of the Holy Spirit, all of the wonderful truths and dynamics of the new covenant, which includes the

Spirit and the grace giving us freedom, bringing in light, giving us motivation and inspiration to serve, based on love for Christ, all of these truths that motivate

Christians now in the new covenant, love, freedom, willingness to love

God, were really obscured in the old covenant.

They were obscured, but they existed. In fact, I'm sure you would be quick to agree with me that there was no one ever saved in the old covenant by works.

They were saved by the grace and mercy of God just as they are saved in the new covenant. Absolutely correct.

And the Apostle Paul brings this out in 2 Corinthians 3, when he says, not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter, but of the

Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the

Spirit not be more glorious? So, the

Old Testament here is defined as the ministry of the law, and the new covenant a ministry of the

Spirit. You're right, Chris, in saying that both the law and the Spirit were active in the

Old Testament as well as the New Testament, but the focus switched because the

Spirit of God in the New Covenant is the completion and the fulfillment of what was prefigured in the

Old Covenant. The Word of God, the Decalogue, and the

Old Testament, the 39 books of the Old Testament, and the prophecies, and the prophets in their teaching and prophesying, mostly were done through teaching and preaching the letter of the law without the joining and combining of the power of the

Holy Spirit in that preaching and prophesying. And so, people were given much more guilt and condemnation through letter -only teaching and preaching because the

Spirit did not point them to Christ as much as now in the

New Covenant. We have so much more knowledge about the purpose of the law as Jesus told the

Pharisees. Search the Scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, but they are they which testify of me.

Again, and that's in John 5. In John 6, Jesus said, it is the Spirit that gives life.

The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are life. So in the

Old Testament, they did not have nearly as much of life and Spirit breathing and activating and illuminating and empowering people to obey

God and to love God for who He is, regenerating them and giving them a new nature, a new heart, a new mind to understand the truth.

The letter without the Spirit when it is taught and preached and prophesied in the Old Testament brought condemnation, brought a heavy weight of slavish devotion without any love for God.

But it's supposed to be the opposite in the New Testament where the Spirit of God joined to the letter of the law in preaching and teaching, resurrects souls from the dead, provides regeneration, provides sanctification, provides love for God, gives us all the right motives to serve and in worship and in our walk to love

God for who He is. It provides freedom, enlargement of heart, to just adore the

Lord Jesus Christ for who He is. Amen. I'm going to read a question for you and then we're going to have you answer it when we return from our final break.

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. He asks, Is it not very important to always be considering the whole counsel of God before drawing conclusions about a belief, especially regarding salvation?

There are many people that isolate texts apart from the whole counsel of God that may appear on their surface to teach that man cooperates with God in order to become regenerate and to maintain his salvation.

But this is just an evidence that we are truly His people when we obey and follow and love

Him. And we'll have you answer that question when we come back because of the fact that you have even said in some of your explanation as you've been exegeting

Hebrews that we play our part and we have to be very careful I'm sure you would agree not to convey the message that we are playing our part in becoming regenerate or maintaining salvation itself.

And you can respond to that when we come back from our break. This is our final break. If you want to join us, send in your question immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnsett at gmail .com ChrisArnsett at gmail .com Give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the

Gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

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That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

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You can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our

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New American Standard Bible from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Pastor Joe Jackowitz, there is a danger, as our listener was suggesting, when we isolate passages and do not take into consideration the whole counsel of God, you can have all kinds of views that develop.

You have the Roman Catholic view that man must cooperate with God in order to be saved and to maintain his salvation, and that's the view, basically, of most of the cults.

You have the easy -believism view that totally eradicates any notion of man's responsibility, and you even have that amongst some hyper -Calvinists who believe that people who are of the elect, some of them are not even professing believers in Christ.

That's a common belief amongst many of the primitive Baptists, for instance, but that's why we have to take into consideration the whole counsel of God, don't we?

Right, we absolutely do, and whenever we talk about works or human responsibility or the phrases, we play our part, these are statements that are so easy to be misunderstood by believers who are especially sensitive to salvation by grace, to sanctification by grace, which is absolutely true.

The only grounds of our acceptance and our justification, our sanctification, and our service as Christians is the meritorious work of our

Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. God accepts nothing that we offer Him outside of the imputation and impartation of the righteousness and grace of our

Lord, Jesus Christ. But pastors have to talk about things where the believers are responsible to do certain things and obey the

Lord. But here is the bottom line issue. The motive and orientation in how we approach

God is everything. That's the main factor. We don't preach legalism, we don't preach salvation or sanctification by works.

We preach Christ and we teach Christ, and people or believers are to be motivated by love to Christ.

And our orientation in serving and in doing and obeying is out of love to Christ.

But the grace and the strength and the ability to do it comes to us by the power of Christ.

But we approach Him by faith, we receive grace by faith in Christ, but it all comes from Him.

But again, the orientation and motive is critical here. It is looking to Christ for everything we need.

Now before the show is over, I'd just like to say, if I could in closing, that I wish I was with you on the 24th this

Friday. I was with you last year at the pastor's lunch, and it was a glorious time. That's actually the 23rd,

Thursday. 23rd, I'm sorry. This Thursday, the 23rd. I have... There's something...

My son is graduating from the Police Academy on Thursday or on Friday, and I absolutely...

We're going up on Thursday, so I have to be there. There's no other... No way to get out of that, but I really was grieved that I couldn't attend this year.

It was delightful to meet Tony Costa, a great teacher. I would encourage all pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, those in leadership in the church, if there's any way you can get down to Carlisle and attend this pastor's luncheon, please do it.

God willing, we'll see you at the next one, Chris. But also we want to encourage listeners to Iron Sharpens Iron to tune in to FirstLoveRadio .org.

There's a lot of other programs that are of high quality like this one that you can benefit from.

That's FirstLoveRadio .org. And Chris, lastly, I happen to be going through the book of Hebrews in our

Sunday expositions, so if listeners want to follow up and learn more about our studies in Hebrews, they can go to ChristBibleChurch .org

and click on the YouTube link or go directly to YouTube and type in the search bar

ChristBibleChurch and then we will be one of the churches that are titled ChristBibleChurch.

It'll come up right away. Either go to ChristBibleChurch .org and click on YouTube or go directly to YouTube and type in ChristBibleChurch and you'll see the sermons on Hebrews.

Great. Well, I thank you so much, Joe, for being on the show today. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.