March 23, 2023 Show with Gary George on “Is the Church Israel Today?”

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March 23, 2023 GARY GEORGE, conference speaker & pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel of Southbridge, Massachusetts, who will address: “IS the CHURCH ISRAEL TODAY?” & announcing the 2023 John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee!!

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,
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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 23rd day of March, 2023.
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I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is also a very dear friend of mine going back to the early 1990s.
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His name is Gary George. Perhaps some of you remember that we just recently conducted an interview about a week or so ago on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with Gary George.
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We discussed the Jesus Revolution movie, and that was actually on March 9th that we conducted that interview.
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And today, we have an entirely different subject that is no doubt going to be very controversial.
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In fact, it may even get some of my listeners angry if they happen to be especially within the realm of dispensationalism or the
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Messianic Jewish movement. But we are going to be addressing the question, is the church
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Israel today? And Gary George, my guest to discuss this, is a conference speaker and pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel of Southbridge, Massachusetts.
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And we're also going to be announcing the 2023 John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Gary George.
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Hello, Chris. Can you hear me okay? I hear you. How's it coming along? I hear you perfectly well. All right.
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Good. Glad to be on with you again, brother. You're always a joy. And so are you, brother. And for the sake of our listeners who have not yet heard you on this program, tell them about Sovereign Grace Chapel of Southbridge, Massachusetts.
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Yeah. Well, we started in 1991. It was planted by a
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Reformed Baptist pastor. They had some rough goings about a year into it.
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And that's when I kind of came into the picture. I was friendly with a number of members of the church at that time.
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And since that time, I've been the pastor. We changed our name in 2000 to Sovereign Grace Chapel and have been that ever since.
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And we are a Doctrines of Grace church. We hold the plural eldership and the basic tenets of the
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Reformed faith, all the doctrines of grace, et cetera, et cetera. And we praise in the Lord.
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Well, if anybody wants more details on this church in Southbridge, Massachusetts, Sovereign Grace Chapel, go to SovereignGraceMA .org,
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SovereignGraceMA for Massachusetts dot org. Well, Gary, there are a few subjects that are more controversial than the one we are going to discuss today, especially within conservative evangelical
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Christianity, because there are stark differences amongst brothers in Christ, among us that have polar opposite views on the answer to this question.
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And also, unfortunately, what comes with that very often is and I'm not saying that this is always the case, but very often there is more heat than light that begins to erupt when you have a difference of opinion on this issue.
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Folks like you and I have been called not that we have been called personally this, but the view that we hold to has been identified by some as anti -Semitic.
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It has been confused with the ideas of Anglo -Israelism, perhaps, where the
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Jewish people are wrongly being understood as being replaced by Gentiles.
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Things like that seem to add a lot to the confusion, and perhaps you and I will even have our own differences of opinion as this program develops.
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I know that you and I do have some differences of opinion on matters that those among us in the
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Calvinistic and Reform Baptist movement, some would say our differences are monumental, and I don't believe that they are monumental.
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I believe that they may, as important as some of those differences may be, I don't think that they are monumental differences.
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But is the church Israel today? You might as well start off the program by answering that question.
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All right. Well, there's a lot to say about that particular topic. Maybe I could start off by saying this.
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On one occasion I was doing evangelism in the city that I grew up in here in Worcester, Massachusetts, and handing out
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Christian literature, and one woman was sort of repulsed by receiving it, and she said, well,
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I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish, I don't accept Christianity, and I said, oh, really? I said, so am
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I. And she looked at me strangely because I was blonde -haired and green -eyed and didn't have the features of a
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Jewish person, and I said, yes, I said, I'm an offspring of Abraham's.
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I said, the difference probably between you and I is that you're a natural offspring of Abraham's and I'm a spiritual offspring of Abraham's, but the scripture says that Abraham would become a father of many nations.
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That was a promise that was made to him back in Genesis chapter 12. I began to explain that to her, and of course, because she had no biblical understanding of these things, it obviously was a dud.
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But I can use that to say that that's why there is a connection between modern -day believers, post -resurrection believers
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I could say, and Judaism or Jews of the past. We know that there's a continuity, and there has to be a relationship of some sort at least between Old Testament Israel and the
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New Testament church. So to try to answer the question, is the church Israel?
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Well I think we could probably start with maybe, first of all, I already did mention that Abraham was given the promise that he would become a father of many nations.
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The book of Galatians tells us that the gospel which was preached unto Abraham afore that he would become the father of many nations.
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So it was a latent truth that a time would come when
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Abraham would become a father not of just ethnic descendants of his
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Jewish people, but rather it would be broader than that. It would be inclusive of the Gentile world.
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So when John the Baptist comes on the scene, as we know he's the forerunner of Jesus, he says right at the outset, the ax is laid to the root.
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What does he mean by that? Well when he was calling people to repentance and for them to come to the baptism, to be baptized, a baptism of repentance, there were many that came that sought to be baptized by him, and he says to them, don't think in yourselves that because you're descendants of Abraham that you have rights to be baptized.
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He says rather, bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.
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So right there there's a discriminating between Jews and Jews, those that had repented and those that had believed not.
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And we know clearly from the Old Testament that there were those that Nicodemus should have known that being a master or a teacher in Israel, that the teaching of the new birth was something factual in the
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Old Testament. And we know that not all Israelites were born again, but yet they were part of the
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Old Testament covenant. But now a new day has arrived when John the Baptist, who's about to introduce
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Jesus himself, is saying that the ax is laid to the root, and only those that can bring forth fruit, and we know that that fruit is something that's generated by the
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Holy Spirit in the heart of a man to really create true repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
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So what happens then at that point, Jesus begins to, he comes on the scene, like John, he uses the same word, repent, and the same expression, the kingdom of God is at hand.
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So the fact that Israelites had to repent is an indication right there that Israel was not in full spiritual relationship with the
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Lord. In Matthew 10, when Jesus sends out the disciples, he sends them not to the
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Gentiles, nor to the Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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So within the confines of the covenant community, there are those who are classified as lost and that they are in need of redemption.
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So the very fact that they had an external, covenantal relationship with God did not qualify them for being kingdom people.
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There was a need for repentance and for the lost to be found. So the gospel is proclaimed and taught.
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And Jesus, as he goes along in his ministry, over and over again we see his rejection, and Chris, by the way, if you want to stop or interrupt me, please do,
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I don't want to become too much of a monologue here on your program, but if you want to stop me on anything, please do.
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But as Christ goes along in his ministry, we see over and over again, the Jews were constantly adverse to Christ, rejecting him, despising him, wanting to kill him, especially as we know in the gospel of Luke, when
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Jesus talks about when he opens up the scriptures and the spirit of the Lord God, he says is upon him, and he goes on to talk about there were many widows, but he went to the widow who was a
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Gentile. There were many lepers, but he went to Naaman who was not a Jewish person, and that was offensive to them.
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And when we trace the gospel ministry, as it continues from Luke into the book of Acts, who wrote both
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Luke and Acts, we see over and over again, the constant refusal of Israelites, not all
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Israelites, we know that's a fact, but many of the Israelites, the Jews, refused the gospel of Jesus Christ, that he was
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Lord, that he was King, that he was even risen from the dead. So, we start again, with John the
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Baptist, Christ carries a message, and finally, Jesus, it's near the end of his ministry, he has to state this, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given unto a nation, bringing forth the fruits thereof.
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So there's indications that the kingdom would be taken from them. He said,
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O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered you together, as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but ye would not.
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And then he goes on to say, when he returns, he says, I'm leaving your house desolate, when
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I return, you will say, blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. That's a key text, because some would argue that, see, when
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Jesus returns, that's when the Jews will turn to Christ. So a lot of people have a problem with seeing the church as being the
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Israel of God, is because they see a future national restoration. They see
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Israel in the land right now. They see, they think some of the promises that are of the
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Old Testament, or prophetical passages are being fulfilled in the current time, and they don't want to acknowledge that the
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Jews are ousted from becoming God's people once again.
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In Romans chapter 3, we have, it begins by saying, to what advantage then has a
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Jew much every way, chiefly that unto them were committed the oracles of God?
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They definitely had an advantage over all the nations of the earth. It tells us in Amos, that thee only have
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I known of all nations on the earth. And it tells us in Deuteronomy 7, 6, the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself above all the people that are upon the face of the earth.
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Some Christians want to believe that the Jews have a separate category of a relationship with God, apart from faith, repentance, and believing in Jesus Christ, and they're almost equal with the believers, the church, in this current age.
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So trying to get to your questions that we're raising, Chris, as to whether, is the church
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Israel, would be better framed by saying, is the church the
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Israel of God? In the Old Testament, Israel is viewed as the apple of God's eye.
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Would it not be appropriate to say of the church, the church is the ones who
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Christ loved and gave himself for her, Christ loved the church and gave himself for her and died on the cross for them.
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So the church then, according to Galatians chapter 6, 15, it says there that as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy and upon the
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Israel of God. Who is Paul claiming is the
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Israel of God in the book of Galatians? He couldn't be isolating the Jewish community of the faithful from the
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Gentiles, who are also spiritual offsprings of Abraham. That would be a deflection from the theme of the book of Galatians, who's trying to say to them that Jew and Gentile, all the spiritual offspring of Abraham, are united together as being a part of that one olive tree.
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There are not two olive trees, there's one olive tree. So has the church, and this is getting more specific, has the church replaced
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Israel? Well, after Christ rose from the dead, he tells his disciples to go into the world and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name.
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And that would take place after the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the apostles and the commission for them was that they were, after they received power, they would be witnesses of Christ in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth.
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That's really the table of contents for the book of Acts. So the ministry of the gospel begins in Jerusalem, and we know at Pentecost, Peter receives the
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Holy Spirit along with the other apostles and is empowered to preach the gospel and present the gospel, and many of them who heard said, men and brethren, what shall we do to be saved?
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And Peter says, repent. Repent, just like Jesus had said that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name.
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And who are those that receive the message of repentance and believe? They that gladly received his word were baptized, and the same day there were added unto them about 3 ,000 souls.
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Who was the audience that Peter was addressing? He was addressing men who were devout men from all regions of the earth who had come together for the feast of Pentecost, primarily, and maybe even
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Passover. They would have been there for a length of time. So even in that audience, there would have been a mixture of Gentiles, devout men, proselytes, no doubt, who are hearing now the gospel and repenting and believing, and therefore being joined to the church.
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So we could say that what God is doing is, as Paul says in Romans chapter 1, it's to the
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Jew first and also to the Gentile. The first opportunities of hearing the gospel of the risen
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Christ, which is really, we could call that the greater salvation. How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation,
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Hebrews 2, 3. The gospel has always been there from the beginning, and thy seed that was promised back in Genesis chapter 3, that seed was always there as a gospel handout to people or opportunity for people.
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But in the New Testament, that gospel is magnified and heightened by the greatness of the appearance of the
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Messiah and his accomplished work on the cross, his atoning death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, and then enthronement.
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In Chris, where is Christ enthroned? It's very distinct that Peter's saying he's enthroned on the throne of David.
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So here we have Jewish language that Jesus the Messiah, risen from the dead, is on the throne of David, which makes him a king.
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We get that language in Acts chapter 17, where they were preaching another king, one
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Jesus. He's the other king. So we have the Davidic promise that through the generations of time, there would be a greater than David who would sit on his throne.
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And that's Jesus Christ now who's sitting on the throne, which his kingship is hailed.
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He's Lord, and these now are required to bow to Jesus as King and as Lord.
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And prior to that, Peter says about the prophecy of Joel, this is that which was spoken by the prophet
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Joel, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, ye sons and daughters, and so on. That was happening right there.
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It wasn't something postponed to a post -church age. It was something that had been predicted by Joel as occurring in the last times.
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In Jesus we know half in these last days appear unto us. So eschatology and theology are really commingled, and I think if you have one wrong and the other one right, or if they're not properly aligned,
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I think you're probably going to come to a faulty conclusion. So one of the big questions, is
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God done with Israel? Well, as the book of Acts unfolds, it tells us in Acts chapter 3, 26, that God raised up Jesus unto you first,
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God, having raised up Jesus, sent him to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
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So Christ was risen from the dead, and guess what? The first opportunity for conversion, repentance and salvation, was proposed to the
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Jews. That's why in Acts 3, 19, Peter says, that repent ye therefore and be converted, so that your sins may be blotted out.
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So Christ is exalted, and those who repent and believe him, they have the opportunity to be saved.
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In this presentation, in chapter 3 of Acts, I'm in right now, verse 23,
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Peter says, quoting from the book of Deuteronomy 18, 15 and following, where it was predicted that a greater than Moses would come.
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Moses says it, that there will be a prophet who God will raise up, him shall you hear. Peter quotes that verse and says in Acts 3, 23, every soul which will not hear that prophet shall be destroyed, notice this, from among the people.
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So there's an extraction of Jews from the people of God.
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So getting back to the metaphor of the olive tree, we have the olive tree is the plant, you could say, of God's people.
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But in the New Testament, we have the branches are broken off. The natural branches, the branches that have natural connections, descendant -wise, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, those are broken off in the unnatural branches.
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That's the Gentiles, who are wild plants.
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They are grafted in, and with them are partakers of the root and the fatness of the olive tree.
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So that's important to see that the connection that the church has is with the
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Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and we draw from the root and the fatness of that olive tree.
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So there you can see a continuity between the old and the new, and in the new there's a refinement of who the people of God are, and that refinement comes with the teaching of the
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New Covenant. The New Covenant is composed of people, only people, who have been circumcised inwardly, who are born of the
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Spirit and have the indwelling of the Spirit. They are the children of God. Romans 9, verse 8 says, or verse 6 rather, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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So the natural seed, because of their unbelief, and blindness and pot that has happened to them, they were cut off.
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So now, who are the ones that come into the olive tree, who are the ones that partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree?
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It is the church, the church age. So we need to probably, and I know
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I'm all over the place here, because I'm trying to cover a lot of material, and a short, you know,
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Yes, well, believe me, this is all necessary, because you're laying an essential bedrock from which we are going to be presenting the case you're making, so.
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So let me finish what I wanted to say about Acts. So we have Peter mentioning that Jesus is risen from the dead and seated on the throne of David.
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That's very significant. So those who were repenting were repenting towards God and putting faith in Jesus Christ, and they were now added to the ecclesia, the gathered out one.
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So they're united to the King, their servant, their subordinates, they're in the family of the
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King. And then chapter 13, we have Paul preaching in the synagogue, and he uses the expression, the sure mercies of David.
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Then when we get to Acts chapter 15, the Lord is building again what was ruined and had fallen down, the tabernacle of David.
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So these are Jewish terms that have application to the church.
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We see Jesus on the throne of David, we have the sure mercies of David, and we are a part of the tabernacle of David.
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And then if we take this further, we find that we are the ones who are circumcised.
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Now some may not take Romans 2, 28 and 29 as being strictly applicable to Gentiles and Jews, and some would see it as applicable only to Jews, when it says he is not a
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Jew which is one outwardly, and circumcision is not that of the flesh, but the true circumcision is the circumcision that is in the heart by the spirit.
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Like Colossians says, we're circumcised without hands. So whether or not you see the
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Gentile as being able to be called a Jew, I think we can at least say that we are the spiritual offspring of Abraham.
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So has the church replaced Israel? You know, it's better to think of it that the church is the church age, the people of God, it's a fulfillment of the promises that were made in the
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Old Testament of the Abrahamic promise that he would become the father of many nations.
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And those who are of the nations that are connected to Father Abraham are those that have the faith, like Abraham believed
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God, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness. The same thing is applicable to us.
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We believe God, we have righteousness imputed to us, therefore we are in the spiritual family of Abrahams.
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We can call Abraham our father, and we are the circumcised.
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It tells us there in Philippians 3, and we know that this has Gentile applications, it says that we are the circumcision who worship
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God in spirit. We are the true circumcision. So we are viewed, maybe you might not want to use the word,
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I don't have a problem with it for me to say that I'm a true Jew, and by that I would mean that I have the circumcision not made with hands of men, but by the spiritual hands of Christ who has circumcised my heart and made me a true spiritual child of God.
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Amen. Again, there's no reason you should be hesitant to proclaim that because it's biblical. It comes from Paul's own words in the inerrant words of Scripture, the
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God -breathed words of Scripture. But we're going to pick up right where we left off there, Gary, because we have to go to our first break.
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And our email address, if anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.
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Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Gary George, and our discussion on the theme is the
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Church Israel Today, right after these messages from our sponsors. I can hear you.
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That's royaldiadem .com, mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Gary George from The Sound of It.
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I think he's torturing an animal in his home there, or wherever he's conducting the interview.
38:58
Gary, why don't you pick up where you left off and conclude anything that you care to say about the bedrock of what you are defending today, and then
39:10
I'll move on to some listener questions. Okay, I think probably what your listeners would be interested in is maybe addressing the question about, does the
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New Testament teach replacement or supersession theology?
39:28
Has the Church replaced Israel? It's one question to answer by the
39:35
Church being the new Israel of God, but the other question remains, is the
39:42
Church the final and only people of God? Will there be a future for Israel?
39:48
So, I think that might be important to your listening audience. I think you'd agree with that.
39:54
So, I think we can go in this kind of direction as far as replacement.
40:00
Has the Church replaced Israel? Well, if you believe that there's a future national restoration ahead for Israel, you would obviously say, no, the
40:10
Church hasn't replaced Israel. Israel is still on hold. They're suspended until a post -Church age, if you're a dispensationalist, or the end of the
40:21
Church age, when Israel will be back with a national status before God.
40:29
But I think the Scriptures are pretty clear that there are definitely Jewish things that the
40:35
Church embraces and are classified as being united with. And let me give you some examples of that, for instance.
40:44
Melchizedek has replaced Aaron, right? Who is a high priest?
40:50
And ironically, if you hold to a future Ezekielian Temple and are going back to a ethnic priesthood of the
40:59
Zadokites or the Levites who will be conducting ceremonies and sacrifices in the future
41:07
Temple, then how is it that Melchizedek will have to forfeit his
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Melchizedek forever priesthood classification and yield it back to Aaron?
41:20
But rather, one has given way to the other. The Melchizedek priesthood has eclipsed or replaced the
41:29
Aaronic priesthood. I think maybe your listeners have not really considered that possibly.
41:37
It's obvious that the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. So we are a covenant people.
41:44
Israel was a covenant people. They had a relationship with God. An external one.
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The New Covenant people of God are those that have been born again. Those that have been circumcised inwardly.
41:58
Those that have the new nature. Those that don't have to be taught to know the Lord for they'll know me from the least to the greatest.
42:05
It explains that in Hebrews chapter 8 and Hebrews chapter 10. So couldn't we say that the
42:12
New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant? I'm just trying to give your audience some ideas about the use of the word replacement and examples of replacing old with the new.
42:25
The Temple, for instance, of believers right now, which is what we have called we are the
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Temple of God we are individually temples in which the Spirit of God dwells but looking at ourselves corporately we are classified as the building the
42:43
Temple of God. So there you could say that the Temple of Believers has replaced the physical temple or temples of the past or any other future type of temple.
42:56
Again, there's another example of replacement. The true Jew the one who is circumcised inwardly has replaced the ethnic
43:05
Jew or the one who has been only circumcised outwardly.
43:11
The Jerusalem, for instance, of the old has been replaced by the Jerusalem that is above important verse,
43:18
Galatians 4 .26 Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all.
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We have freedom and liberty as being connected to the spiritual
43:31
Jerusalem which is above. The one beneath Paul says, he classifies it that the children of the
43:39
Jerusalem from below are in bondage and with their children. The seating of Christ on David's throne now has replaced any idea of a future
43:51
Jesus sitting on a throne or another David -like character sitting on the throne.
43:57
The Zion above, according to Hebrews 12 .22 has been replaced has replaced the
44:03
Zion on earth. The once for all sacrifice has been replaced by all other sacrifices past or future.
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Jesus, the greatest servant of Yahweh has replaced the inferior servant Israel, Hosea 11 .1
44:17
and Matthew 2 .15 they're both all God's son Jesus is the greater than Israel.
44:24
He's the new replacement for Israel. The Sabbath rest in Christ has been replaced.
44:30
He is our Sabbath rest. He has replaced the need for a future or a present
44:36
Sabbath keeping. The Jewish feast have been forever replaced by Jesus and his work.
44:41
The Passover celebration has forever been replaced by Jesus' judgment death on the cross.
44:48
Christ, our Passover is sacrifice for us. So if people want to go back to temple worship and there's this suspense that many
44:57
Christians evangelical conservative Christians hold. They're getting the red heifer ready.
45:02
They're getting the construction of the temple. When I went to Israel I went to a place called the Temple Institute where they're actually constructing temple pieces of furniture.
45:14
And I saw these life -size pieces of furniture that are worth thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
45:21
And there is some expectations that some sects have that the temple is going to be restored and rebuilt.
45:28
And of course dispensationalist has a difficulty of understanding is that the temple of Ezekiel?
45:35
What other temple would be prophesied in the Old Testament that would be one that would go back to one preceding the millennium?
45:43
That's a difficulty for dispensationalists. The children of faith have replaced the children of the flesh.
45:50
Circumcision without hands has replaced the circumcision with hands. The types and shadows have been replaced by the substance,
45:58
Colossians 2 .17. The children of the devil the Jewish unbelievers, that's what
46:03
Jesus calls them, have been replaced by the spiritual seed of Abraham. Worship is now in a sanctified location that has been replaced by spiritual worship in an undesignated place.
46:21
Like Jesus talking to the woman at the well, you say that this is the place and Jerusalem is the place and so on.
46:26
But he goes on to say elsewhere that where the two or three are gathered together in my name there am
46:32
I in the midst of them. So the idea of one sanctified location where persons would meet together in a going back to Old Testament practices is ridiculous and it's contradictory to the progression that the
46:48
New Testament makes. It's absolutely contradictory to the book of Hebrews. I met a
46:53
Jewish woman when I was in Israel. She had been saved a number of years and she said you know what I give to my fellow
46:59
Jewish countrymen here? I have copies of the book of Hebrews that I give them. And I agree that that's the best thing that could possibly be handed out to a
47:08
Jew because it obviously indicates replacement or replacement theology.
47:15
The old national Israel God has been replaced by the new Israel of God, Galatians 6 .15 and the natural children of Abraham have been replaced by the spiritual children of Abraham.
47:26
So can we have fault with the usage of the term replacement theology?
47:33
At least you'd have to admit that Melchizedek has replaced Aaron and spiritual circumcision has replaced natural circumcision.
47:42
The once for all offering of Christ has replaced forever the temporal offerings that never really took away sin anyway.
47:50
So these are strong indications that we have in the church this is an important verse in 1
47:56
Corinthians 10 11 it talks about the church upon whom the end of the ages has come.
48:04
There is no post church age that is after the church. The church is the conclusive age.
48:10
The New Testament is a fulfilling of the Old Testament. So you could call it instead of replacement theology if you don't like that, you could call it fulfillment theology.
48:22
I like to think of the Old Testament as the bud and the New Testament as the blossom.
48:27
So that there were things that were promised and hoped for in the old that come to pass in the new.
48:33
The physical is replaced with the spiritual and so we're enjoying the end times with a high priest who's after the order of Melchizedek who's a king priest and he's a prophet that every soul that doesn't hear will be removed from the people of God.
48:53
So Jesus right now is currently carrying out his office of prophet, priest and king at the right hand of God.
49:01
So okay, I have given you a few things there in regards to what one could understand by replacement theology the church replacing
49:12
Israel. Yes, and the thing that is baffling you can understand the uneducated non -believer unbeliever being confused by this and wrongly coming to the conclusion that this is a bigoted ideology where a belief is being taught that Gentiles have replaced
49:45
Jews and that is not at all what you are saying because the church began completely as a
49:56
Jewish group and then gradually more and more Gentiles began to join that group by becoming circumcised in their hearts by becoming born again.
50:10
And we have reached a day and this has been the case for many centuries that there are numerically a greater number of Gentiles in Jesus' church but it is not an exclusively
50:25
Gentile club of some kind and so as I said it is understandable that an unbeliever may jump to that wrong conclusion of using terms like replacement theology but what is baffling is that our dispensationalist brothers in Christ, some of them whom are very biblically literate they might even be scholars and also our
50:51
Messianic Jewish brethren, how they as the world does equate the term church with Gentiles.
51:00
Even if they are not doing it consciously it appears that they are at least unconsciously doing that.
51:06
There would be no reason for being upset and hurling the charge of anti -Semitism if that was not the case, am
51:13
I right? Yeah, and here is another angle to look at Chris, and the fact is that the church, and when we are saying the church, we are using it as the
51:23
New Testament terminology of the new covenant people of God. There is definitely a continuity between the old and the new, we get that teaching from Romans chapter 11 so that there is no real separation there is no two peoples of God, there is one people of God and Christ is the reason for the union with one another but in the
51:45
New Testament we have obviously a new day, like Jesus said, I will build my church, so you could say the spiritual construction is now put under new management and Jesus is the builder, how interesting that Jesus was a carpenter himself, and he describes the way in which the church would be constructed with the term using
52:09
I will build, a building word expression and so when we get to Acts chapter 2 after we read of the conversion of the
52:16
Jews particularly, and then in verse 47 it says the Lord added to the church daily those that were being saved that's how
52:25
Christ was building his church, and this is the point I'm trying to get to Chris, who was the nucleus of the nascent church?
52:33
It was the Jews it was the Jews that were converted In fact, every book of the
52:39
New Testament was written by a Jew except for Acts and Luke Absolutely, even
52:44
Paul, who is an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles, who is commissioned by Christ to go to the nations and not to stay in Israel, in Jerusalem and Judea and so on, but he sent him far hence unto the
52:57
Gentiles where does Paul set up camp, so to speak, in the presentation of the gospel?
53:03
He goes to the synagogues. Okay, we have to pick up where you left off, we have to go to our midway break.
53:09
Be patient folks, it's the longer break than normal, so we'll be right back James White James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here
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I'm very excited to announce that my long time friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the
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The Sovereignty of God. I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.
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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the
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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.
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01:08:55
Before I return to Gary George and our discussion on Is the Church Israel Today, I have a couple of very important announcements to make.
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and put conference in the subject line. And obviously, if you're also registering for the luncheon, put luncheon and conference in the subject line.
01:14:10
And last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Sovereign Grace Chapel of South Bridge, Massachusetts, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet
01:14:24
Earth, and I may be able to help you find a church no matter where you live, as I have done with many people in our audience spanning the globe, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live.
01:14:36
So if you are in that predicament, you do not have a biblically solid church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:14:43
and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Gary George on our theme today, which is, is the church
01:14:53
Israel today? And Gary has emphatically answered that question with a yes.
01:15:00
And before I go to our listener questions, did you want to finalize anything, because I had to cut you off when we went to the midway break.
01:15:09
I just wanted to say about the Apostle Paul, although he was an apostle to the Gentiles, when he went on his missions, he went to primarily the outposts of the synagogues to proclaim the gospel, and of course the synagogues were composed of not only
01:15:28
Jews but also Gentiles who would have heard. And so he could broadcast to them, as he says in Acts 13 26, whosoever among you feareth
01:15:37
God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
01:15:43
So Paul is embracing both the Jews and Gentiles as potential candidates to the reception of the gospel with the prerequisite of do you fear
01:15:53
God, which is so critical, which is the beginning of wisdom. So there's an invitation, again getting back to our point that if we say, and I would say yes, the church is the
01:16:05
Israel of God today, does that mean that Jews are excluded? Of course not. The gospel is unto all and upon all who believe.
01:16:14
The first churches in the first centuries were composed of primarily Jews. Paul says that there remains a remnant according to the election of grace, and he was referring to himself as one who was of the tribe of Benjamin, and God had mercy on him, and so does in he throughout the ages of the church.
01:16:34
He is also including Jews into the family of God by the new birth.
01:16:40
People like to say, well aren't the Jews the chosen people? Yes, they were the chosen people, but they are no longer the chosen people.
01:16:48
The chosen people are the people who have been chosen by God in eternity. They are the true people of God and the true
01:16:54
Israel of God. And of course some of those chosen people, or another term is the elect, some of those are
01:17:02
Jews, but the Jews are not exclusively the chosen people. No, well they were,
01:17:08
I was saying that in the Old Testament, they were primarily the ones whom God had chosen nationally of all the nations of the earth, and even people have problems with election and so on, they have to admit that God chose one nation above all the other nations and only that nation, and that was the nation of Israel.
01:17:25
So why would it be difficult to understand that God chooses some people and not all people to become his sheep?
01:17:33
Anyway, go ahead. I just wanted to say I think that some things need to be clarified, especially when using the word replacement, especially since there is a very popular buzz phrase being used by those who are opponents to what you and I believe about this.
01:17:55
They will hurl that accusation, oh you believe in replacement theology, but they have in their minds something that is different.
01:18:07
In fact, a beloved brother that I love so much,
01:18:12
I used to love interviewing him, a believing Jew, Marty Fromm, he's now in eternity with Christ, wonderful brother, and I had so much in common with him theologically, but he would unintentionally misrepresent our position and he would say things like, you believe that God is through with the
01:18:35
Jews. I've never heard a Reformed or Calvinistic pastor, scholar, or theologian in my life say that.
01:18:46
Nobody that I know that I would give an ounce of respect to says that God is through with the
01:18:53
Jews. God saves Jews through the evangelism of his people every day.
01:19:00
He brings them to their knees to bow to the finished work of Christ on Calvary as their only hope for salvation.
01:19:07
He's not through with the Jews. In fact, even there are some Reformed Christians who believe that there's going to be a mass conversion towards the end of earthly existence as we know it before the return of Christ.
01:19:25
So, I just want to interject something that I think is very important. If we shouldn't be using the expression,
01:19:34
God is through with the Jews, because God is not through with the conversion era of time.
01:19:42
God is saving people throughout the times that we exist, and so those whom he saves, they embrace and come into the new covenant people of God.
01:19:55
So, even if people want to hold to a national grand, you know, restoration of national
01:20:02
Israel, there's not going to be another covenant. There's only two covenants. One we know is passe, and the current one is the one that we are in now called the
01:20:11
Church Age or the New Covenant, the Second Covenant, and any Jew, whether individually, corporately, nationally, they've got to be included in this one and only last final covenant.
01:20:25
It's called in Hebrews 13, the Everlasting Covenant. So, even if you want to say there is a future for the
01:20:32
Jews, that future for the Jews is that they're going to be included into the church.
01:20:38
That's the bride, the final peoples of God, the church, 1 Corinthians 10, 11, I'll repeat it again, upon whom the end of the ages is come.
01:20:47
What's well that things were written aforetime were written for our learning. What was written aforetime? All that the prophets and law had spoken were addressing this time period as well, and Paul uses the same expression.
01:20:59
He was accused of being a heretic, but yet he's speaking, he said, I'm speaking all the things that were written by the law and the prophets in Moses.
01:21:08
And I think we also have to be careful about, you used a phrase before that I think would, if you use it, would require explanation, the
01:21:18
New Testament has replaced the Old Testament. That may convey in the minds of people that the
01:21:24
Old Testament is worthless, that the Old Testament is nothing but a history book that we can return to from time to time just to titillate our imagination or learn more about the origins of the
01:21:42
Christian faith before Christ and so on. Obviously, the Old Testament or the
01:21:51
New Testament, we hold them with just as much care as we do the New Testament, and there are bedrock truths, there are essential truths contained in the
01:22:01
Old Testament that we have to believe today. 100%, I mean, 2 Corinthians 3 .16,
01:22:07
all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, there's profitable doctrine and so on, and what is Paul referring to when he's writing that to Timothy?
01:22:14
The New Testament canon was only in progress at best, and he was obviously referring to the
01:22:20
Old Testament, so there's tremendous value in the Old, you know, this is all inspired
01:22:27
Scripture, no prophecy of Scriptures of any private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of men, but by holy men of God who were carried along by the
01:22:37
Holy Spirit. That's sacred Scripture, so it deserves and demands due reverence.
01:22:44
Amen, and I've actually heard in my lifetime after becoming saved, not from my own pastors, but I've actually heard pastors tell their congregations that the
01:22:57
Old Testament is not really all that important now, in fact, I would encourage you to buy the
01:23:04
New Testament that is isolated unto itself without the Old Testament on it. I mean,
01:23:09
I understand that for convenience sake, that those versions of the
01:23:15
Scripture can be helpful just because they're smaller and lighter and easier to fit in a pocket or something, but you've never...
01:23:24
Go ahead. The New Testament contains about 8 ,000 verses, roughly 1 ,700 really.
01:23:33
About one -eighth of them, approximately a thousand verses have either direct reference or allusion to the
01:23:41
Old Testament, so you could say that one -eighth of the Old Testament is contained in the
01:23:47
New Testament. As a matter of fact, when I was a young believer and I started reading, I started reading the
01:23:52
Gospel of John and Matthew and the epistles, and I come across the name Abraham and David and Elijah and so on, and I said to myself, boy,
01:24:00
I need to know who these characters are. It's important. How am I going to understand the meaning of what the New Testament author is writing when
01:24:06
I don't understand the context of who these people are from the Old Testament? So it motivated me to want to read the
01:24:13
Old Testament Scriptures. Amen. All right, let's go to some of our listener questions. We have
01:24:19
Pat in East Brookfield, Massachusetts. Will you please elaborate on the differences, if there are any, between replacement and fulfillment?
01:24:28
Actually, you've already done a great deal of that already. Is there any one thing you want to add to that? Rephrase the last part,
01:24:36
I missed what you said there. Will you please elaborate the differences, if there are any, between replacement and fulfillment?
01:24:46
Yeah, it's just a matter of semantics. It depends on what emphasis you want to put.
01:24:52
Like, I had put emphasis on the replacement from the standpoint that, you know, Melchizedek has replaced
01:24:58
Abraham's virtual circumcision, has replaced a physical circumcision. The spiritual temple of the church has replaced the old temple.
01:25:07
And I gave numerous examples of Jerusalem, which is above, has replaced the Jerusalem which is below, and on and on.
01:25:13
The Passover has been fulfilled or replaced by Christ's Passover sacrifice of himself.
01:25:20
So there, I think you could use the word replacement, but it does need explanation. People have a problem with replacement because it gives the impression that that means that there's no future for Israel, and we just addressed what that meant.
01:25:34
But I think fulfillment really gives what we were talking about, the interrelationship between the old and the new, and how one yields, the old that is, yields itself to the new.
01:25:46
I had referred to an expression like the bud develops into a blossom, so that there's really a integration that takes place, a rich, an actual organic dynamic unity that takes place between the old and the new.
01:26:03
As one is coming into fruition, it is actually taking
01:26:08
Old Testament types and shadows and putting body on the skeleton, if you will.
01:26:16
We have a listener, Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks, in light of everything you have said today, how are we to view that national area of the
01:26:32
Middle East today known as Israel? Well, of course, it's obvious that they were formally the, it was
01:26:41
God's territory that God gave specifically a land that flowed with milk and honey to Israel, and he ousted all the nations, and he tried to do that through the people of God, the
01:26:52
Jews, and obviously they have been ousted again, not only in past exiles, but the final exile that took place in 70
01:27:01
AD and subsequent to that, so all Israel was scattered. So what, in my opinion, and I could be wrong on this, but I'm definitely not a
01:27:10
Christian Zionist. I don't think that the Zionist movement that began with Herschel back in the 1890s and was carried through into the 1900s and so on, that Israel has been nationally restored and that they're back on their feet spiritually.
01:27:28
If you know anything about Israel today, they are primarily, and I shouldn't say maybe primarily, but there's a mixture.
01:27:35
They're not, they're not there religiously. They're there politically. They're there for a personal gain and for any other nation that would want to enjoy a land for themselves.
01:27:46
So I don't see that as a fulfillment of a promise that was made to Abraham about the land.
01:27:52
I feel that that promise was fulfilled in the invasion of Joshua with the people, and I think Joshua 21 pretty much settles that idea.
01:28:01
And the New Testament gives us no impression at all that the land is a future promise for Israel.
01:28:08
We have come to the fulfillment of all land -like promises spiritually by our receiving
01:28:14
Christ and having all the spiritual blessings that are in heavenly places in Christ.
01:28:21
So a land in the physicalness that may have been important to an Israelite and to a
01:28:27
Jew today possibly is not something that the New Testament or that the Bible holds out as something relevant to us.
01:28:35
Yes, and don't you think that there is much abuse, and I gotta repeat myself, there are so many dispensationalist
01:28:46
Christians that I love, and one of my greatest modern -day heroes is John MacArthur, so I don't want my listeners to think that I am trashing all of dispensationalism and dispensationalists, but there are important things that rise up due to a faulty theology on these things.
01:29:13
Like, for instance, the misuse of Genesis 12 verse 3, where God says,
01:29:20
I will bless those who bless you and I will curse him who curses you. There are many
01:29:26
Christians, it might even be the majority of Christians in the 21st century, who think that that means we have to side with the current -day nation of Israel at all costs, because if we don't we better watch out,
01:29:43
God's gonna curse us. And you have atheists ruling that country, socialists and so on, you don't have people who return to the land because of a devotion to God.
01:30:00
Now, you know, obviously there are some people who believe that they're there for that reason, but I'm talking about as a whole.
01:30:07
In fact, as you may know, when the new nation of Israel began in the late 40s, this was a work of liberal
01:30:18
Jews. The Orthodox and the Hasidic wanted nothing to do with it because it was being viewed by them as a manufactured
01:30:26
Israel, because the Messiah had not yet come in their mind. And today there are many
01:30:34
Hasidic Jews who still have that view, but I'll go ahead, I'm sorry. So I was just going to say, when you talk about Israel nationally there in the land,
01:30:43
Palestine, they are definitely a secular community for the most part.
01:30:49
We Christians are naive in thinking that the Jews are like a monogamous, homogenous people,
01:30:56
I should say, and that, you know, they're Jewish in their religious convictions and so on.
01:31:02
Tel Aviv, which is the biggest city in Israel, happens to have the second largest gay parade in all of the
01:31:10
Middle East countries. They pride themselves in that. They're hardcore atheists, and same thing in New York City.
01:31:20
And we always think of those Orthodox Jews and we see their zeal and their
01:31:25
Sabbath keeping and their ordinance keepings, and we sympathize with them.
01:31:30
And we see them praying before the Western Wall with real fervor, and a heart goes out to them, you know.
01:31:36
I was at the Western Wall and I was with a brother, and I went up to the wall and I took the brother that was with me,
01:31:42
I said, let's back up with me, brother. I said, let's pray for the conversion of these people.
01:31:47
Let's pray for their salvation, that the gospel would reach them. I wish I could put a big sign on the
01:31:54
Western Wall. Repent towards God and put faith in Jesus Christ.
01:32:00
He is your only hope. And there's a hatred of Christ, not only in Israel, but among many
01:32:08
Jews, and I have confronted, I've had interrelations with rabbis and Orthodox Jews, and they have been harsh, as the harshest persons
01:32:17
I have met in my evangelistic outreaches, because of their despisal of Jesus Christ.
01:32:25
And I'm not saying that because I'm anti -Semitic. I love all people. I was commanded to spread the gospel to everybody, and I feel like with the
01:32:34
Jew, they are prime targets for the gospel, because we have so much in common with their belief in the
01:32:41
Old Testament, and we can use the Old Testament, the Isaiah 53s and various Psalms and so on, and make them applicable and realized by Jesus Christ in the
01:32:52
New Testament. We have another first -time listener question.
01:32:59
Gregory in St. Kitts in the West Indies. How does the Valley of Dry Bones and Romans 11 tie in with the church being the new
01:33:10
Israel? Jesus told the Jews that he will give the kingdom to another nation, producing the fruits thereof.
01:33:17
What does that mean? Okay, that's a good point. When he went to the fig tree,
01:33:23
Jesus cursed the tree and said, let no fruit grow on thee, henceforth and forever.
01:33:30
I think that God closed the door on Israel nationally, so any prospects of future rejuvenation of Judaism, temple worship, reinstitution of a priesthood, which is so contradictory to the
01:33:47
New Testament, where you don't have in the New Testament these two classes of people, a hierarchy and the laity, it runs so contrary to that.
01:33:57
But it's a good question, I think, that the person is asking concerning how does the Valley of Dry Bones and Romans 11,
01:34:03
I know he's talking about the end times when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, it'll be like life from the dead.
01:34:11
And of course the application that the question person wants to raise or bring to our attention is that, isn't that referring to Israel nationally being restored?
01:34:22
And some good men, A. B. Spurgeon included in that, would see it that way. And I don't have a problem with that particularly.
01:34:32
I don't see it as a national restoration, but I see when the fullness of the
01:34:37
Gentiles comes in, and then all Israel shall be saved, I think it's the completion of the history of the conversion of Jews through the period of the church age over the course of different epochs, you could say, and each of those epochs there remain the remnant according to the election of grace like Paul, and there would be other remnants throughout the next centuries and so on, then when that's all completed it will be life from the dead.
01:35:04
But go ahead Chris on your next question. We have another first -time questioner,
01:35:10
Corey in Worcester, Massachusetts. Did I pronounce Worcester right? Well no you didn't.
01:35:16
How do you pronounce it? Worcester. Worcester. Corey in Worcester.
01:35:24
I'll talk to you off the air about that. How can we say our beliefs are similar to Gary's even though we are in a culture where we will be labeled as anti -semitic and they try to cancel me?
01:35:41
I think what he's saying, I think he's what he's saying is how do we react to people who slander us as being anti -semitic and try to cancel us?
01:35:51
I think well you know if we really tell them the truth that we we want to see
01:35:57
Jews converted, we want them to we want to see them to repent, they would label us as anti -semitic in some fashion or form.
01:36:04
If we believe that they nationally are rejected and that they have no future with a you know a return of the temple or its construction and and all that type of thing, we're going to be labeled anti -semitic.
01:36:18
But the fact is and I want to be as far away as being anti -semitic as possible,
01:36:24
I and all believers should have a generosity and a charity towards all people including
01:36:32
Semitic people. So we don't we shouldn't ever be thought of as anti -semitic and if we give any impression it's because of a wrong impression they've got of our interpretation of Scripture.
01:36:44
But Scripture would not point us in a direction to despise Jews, Israel, or anything of that sort.
01:36:50
I think we can befriend them, I think we can we should love them, and I think we should can show them the fruit of the
01:36:57
Holy Spirit that that's where the life -changing comes by faith in Christ and the gift of the
01:37:02
Holy Spirit that makes us new creations. And I would also add to that my comments that I am
01:37:10
NOT a Christian Zionist and you said the same. In my case
01:37:16
I that does not mean that I don't believe that it demonstrates wisdom on many occasions for the
01:37:25
United States as a nation to often support the nation called
01:37:33
Israel today since they are an ally in the Middle East surrounded by people who want nothing but not only the destruction of Israel but the destruction of the
01:37:44
United States. So I mean I'm not saying that we should ignore the importance of that nation or anything like that.
01:37:52
I'm just saying that we are wrong when we automatically assume that this is a this nation is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
01:38:02
Exactly. And we have to go to our final break right now and if you have a question
01:38:08
I would urge you to submit it very quickly because we are rapidly running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:38:17
Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
01:38:25
USA. Don't go away we are going to be right back after these messages with more of Gary George and is the church
01:38:36
Israel today. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
01:38:55
I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta Georgia again for the
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Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:48:39
If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:48:52
Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:49:02
Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:49:10
This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:49:15
Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:49:28
Getting a driver's license. Running a cash register. Flipping burgers. Passing sixth grade.
01:49:35
Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?
01:49:43
Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.
01:49:51
I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
01:50:02
That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents
01:50:08
God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.
01:50:20
Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Hi, this is
01:50:27
John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris and the
01:50:35
Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
01:50:47
Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
01:50:56
I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised
01:51:03
Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
01:51:12
I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
01:51:17
Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
01:51:26
I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com
01:51:33
where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com Scott Brown here.
01:51:40
I hope you can join me and Chris Arnson at the Chief End of Man conference in Ridgecrest May 4 through 6.
01:51:49
The Chief End of Man conference is a national conference of church and family life which exists to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture at this conference.
01:51:59
You'll hear Paul Washer, Joel Beakey, Scott Aniel, Josh Bice and lots of other great preachers, some of my favorite preachers.
01:52:06
And also we're having a pre -conference. It's a singles conference May 3 and 4 just before a big national conference.
01:52:12
I hope you can come. For more information go to churchandfamilylife .com.
01:52:19
Churchandfamilylife .com. Hope to see you there. And that's Ridgecrest, North Carolina for those of you wondering.
01:52:27
I just have a quick plug to make for my dear friend Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law of the law firm of Buttafuoco &
01:52:35
Associates. You've been hearing his ads for the Historical Bible Society but some of you may miss a very important fact in those ads that Dan is a personal injury attorney and medical malpractice attorney for people who have very serious cases.
01:52:52
And he handles cases in all 50 states. So since Dan has been a sponsor of Iron Triple Zion Radio since we first launched in 2005, please return the favor by contacting his firm if you or someone that you know is the victim of a very serious injury or a medical malpractice situation.
01:53:17
Call 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,
01:53:23
1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Gary, I think that you should summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we even attempt to go to another listener question.
01:53:36
Well I guess what I want to say is I think it kind of wrapped up with what Paul says in 2nd
01:53:41
Corinthians 120, all the promises of God in Christ are yea and in him amen to the glory of God.
01:53:51
So that's how we need to look at the scriptures. When Jesus met with his apostles after his resurrection, he expounded unto them the things concerning himself.
01:54:04
And we are really the outflow of the person of Jesus. We, as we are recognized as being the body, and he is the head, and we are members one of another.
01:54:16
So whether it's a Jew or whether it's a Gentile, it's a wonderful thing to have a union together as believers, but our union is in Christ.
01:54:25
So it kind of wraps the whole thing up as well. In Ephesians chapter 1 and verse 10, it says that in the dispensation of the fullness of times, he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in him.
01:54:47
So Christ must have in all things the preeminence. So whatever our particular views may be, what needs to be highlighted the most is the preeminence of Christ, that he is a glorious, exalted
01:55:03
King sitting on the throne. He's Lord of Lords. He's above every name that has been named, and to him be glory, honor, and power forever and ever and ever.
01:55:14
And we are a part of his plan and amazingly united by his powerful gospel call.
01:55:23
All right, we have time for at least one more listener question. We have Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.
01:55:32
Have you ever heard an answer from a dispensationalist or Christian Zionist to 1
01:55:39
Peter chapter 2 verse 9, that you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light?
01:55:56
In context, Peter is obviously speaking to Christians and not exclusively to ethnic
01:56:04
Jews. How do they respond to this? Who would say how do dispensationalists respond?
01:56:10
Is that the question? Yes, I mean in your encounters when you've had dialogues. Yes, these are the kinds of verses, as you call it, as implying, that I think are stumbling to the dispensationalists, because the next verse, even after verse 9, says you who were not a people are now the people of God.
01:56:28
So there's this, you know, electing gospel of grace that saves people and brings them into the family.
01:56:36
And so he's not a Jew which is one outwardly, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and now we have replaced
01:56:43
Israel in the standpoint that I think maybe the person sent in the question might mean that as in Exodus chapter 19,
01:56:54
Israel was called to be a priesthood of people of the kingdom, and that they had failed, and now you are a chosen generation, you are a royal priest, a holy nation, a people of God's particular treasure.
01:57:08
Yes, we have in that sense again you could say we are the new people of God, the replacing people of God, or the fulfillment people of God.
01:57:17
Okay, we got time for one more with a quick answer. Let's see,
01:57:23
I am remaining anonymous because most of my dear friends are dispensationalists, and I am being told over and over again that Romans 1 verses 16 is teaching us that we are to give priority in our evangelistic efforts to Jews over Gentiles.
01:57:43
The text says, for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believeth the
01:57:51
Jew first and also to the Greek. But is this not just a matter of chronology from history and not comparing two groups of people as one being more important?
01:58:04
Paul uses a similar language when he goes into the synagogue and the Jews reject him, he says it was necessary that the gospel be first preached unto you and now
01:58:15
I must bring it unto the Gentiles. So yes, it is sequential. As it says in Acts, when they receive power to be witnesses, it's
01:58:24
Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth. That's the chronological sequence, and the gospel did begin, as Jesus said, your witnesses unto me from Jerusalem to the uttermost parts of the earth.
01:58:39
Amen. Well, I also want to quickly plug the 2023 John Bunyan Conference, April 16th through the 19th at Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee, who sponsored this program.
01:58:51
If you want more details on this conference, which should be utterly fascinating, they have quite a number of speakers there,
01:58:58
I believe 11 or 12 speakers, including my friend Dr.
01:59:03
Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. If you want more details, go to ptinct .org,
01:59:11
that's p -t -i -n -c -t .org. Also, if you want more information about the church where Gary George, my guest today, is a pastor,
01:59:21
Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts, go to sovereigngracema .org, sovereigngracema .org.
01:59:28
Thank you so much, Pastor Gary, for always doing such a spectacular job. I want to thank everybody who listened, all first -time questioners who live in the
01:59:37
United States have won a free New American Standard Bible, and if you give me your mailing address, we'll have cvbbs .com,
01:59:44
Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, ship out a new Bible to you. That's to all first -time questioners today who live in the
01:59:51
United States. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater