March 23, 2023 Show with Gary George on “Is the Church Israel Today?”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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And now here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live-streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of iron sharpens iron radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 23rd day of March 2023.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is also a very dear friend of mine going back to the early 1990s. His name is Gary George. Perhaps some of you remember that we just recently conducted an interview about a week or so ago on iron sharpens iron radio with Gary George.

We discussed the Jesus Revolution movie, and that was actually on March 9th that we conducted that interview. And today we have an entirely different subject that is no doubt going to be very controversial.

In fact, it may even get some of my listeners angry if they happen to be especially within the realm of dispensationalism or the Messianic Jewish movement. But we are going to be addressing the question, is the church Israel today?

And Gary George, my guest to discuss this, is a conference speaker and pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel of Southbridge, Massachusetts. And we're also going to be announcing the 2023 John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio, Pastor Gary George. Hello, Chris. Can you hear me? Okay. I hear you. I hear you perfectly well.

All right, good. Glad to be on with you again, brother. You're always a joy.

And so are you, brother. And for the sake of our listeners who have not yet heard you on this program, tell them about Sovereign Grace Chapel of Southbridge, Massachusetts.

Yeah, well, we started in 1991. It was planted by a Reformed Baptist pastor. They had some rough goings about a year into it, and that's when I kind of came into the picture. I was friendly with a number of members of the church at that time, and since that time I've been the pastor.

We changed our name in 2000 to Sovereign Grace Chapel and have been that ever since. And we are a Doctrines of Grace Church. We hold the plural eldership and the basic tenets of the Reformed faith, all the doctrines of grace, etc, etc, and we praise the Lord.

Well, if anybody wants more details on this church in Southbridge, Massachusetts, Sovereign Grace Chapel, go to SovereignGraceMA .org. SovereignGraceMA for Massachusetts .org. Well, Gary, there are a few subjects that are more controversial than the one we are going to discuss today, especially within conservative Evangelical Christianity, because there are stark differences amongst brothers in Christ among us that have polar opposite views on the answer to this question.

And also, unfortunately, what comes with that very often is, and I'm not saying that this is always the case, but very often there is more heat than light that begins to erupt when you have a difference of opinion on this issue.

Folks like you and I have been called, not that we have been called personally this, but the view that we hold to has been identified by some as anti-semitic. It has been confused with the ideas of Anglo-Israelism, perhaps, where the Jewish people are wrongly being understood as being replaced by Gentiles.

Things like that seem to add a lot to the confusion and perhaps you and I will even have our own differences of opinion as this program develops. I know that you and I do have some differences of opinion on matters that that those among us in the Calvinistic and Reform Baptist movement, some would say our differences are monumental, and I don't believe that they are monumental.

I believe that they may, as important as some of those differences may be, I don't think that they are monumental differences. But is the church Israel today? You might as well start off the program by answering that question.

The Church as Abraham's Spiritual Offspring

All right. Well, there's a lot to say about that particular topic. Maybe I could start off by saying this. On one occasion, I was doing evangelism in the city that I grew up in here in Worcester, Massachusetts, and handing out Christian literature, and one woman was sort of repulsed by receiving it, and she said, well, I'm Jewish.

I'm Jewish. I don't accept Christianity. And I said, oh, really? I said, so am I, and she looked at me strangely because I was blonde-haired and green-eyed and didn't have the features of a Jewish person, and I said, yes.

I said, I'm an offspring of Abraham's. I said, the difference probably between you and I is that you're a natural offspring of Abraham's, and I'm a spiritual offspring of Abraham's. But the scripture says that Abraham would become a father of many nations.

That was a promise that was made to him back in Genesis chapter 12. I began to explain that to her, and of course, because she had no biblical understanding of these things, it obviously was a dud, but I can use that to say that that's why there is a connection between modern-day believers, post-resurrection believers, I could say, and Judaism or Jews of the past.

We know that there's a continuity, and there has to be a relationship of some sort, at least, between Old Testament Israel and the New Testament Church. So to try to answer the question, is the church Israel?

Well, I think we could probably start with maybe, first of all, I already did mention that Abraham was given the promise that he would become a father of many nations. The book of Galatians tells us that the gospel which was preached unto Abraham afford that he would become the father of many nations.

So it was a latent truth that a time would come when Abraham would become a father, not of just ethnic descendants of his Jewish people, but rather it would be broader than that. It would be inclusive of the Gentile world.

So when John the Baptist comes on the scene, as we know, he's the forerunner of Jesus, he says right at the outset, the ax is laid to the root. What does he mean by that? Well, when he was calling people to repentance and for them to come to the baptism to be baptized, a baptism of repentance, there are many that came that sought to be baptized by him, and he says to them, don't think in yourselves that because you're descendants of Abraham that you have rights to be baptized.

He says rather bring forth fruits worthy of repentance. So right there, there's a discriminating between Jews and Jews, those that had repented and those that had believed not. And we know clearly from the Old Testament that there were those that Nicodemus should have known, that being a master or a teacher in Israel, that the teaching of the new birth was something factual in the Old Testament.

And we know that not all Israelites were born again, but yet they were part of the Old Testament covenant. But now a new day has arrived with John the Baptist, who's about to introduce Jesus himself, is saying that the ax is laid to the root, and only those that can bring forth fruit, and we know that that fruit is something that's generated by the Holy Spirit in the heart of a man, to really create true repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

So what happens then at that point, Jesus begins to, he comes on the scene, like John, he uses the same word, repent, and the same expression, the kingdom of God is at hand. So the fact that Israelites had to repent is an indication right there that Israel was not in full spiritual relationship with the Lord.

In Matthew chapter 10, when Jesus sends out the disciples, he sends them not to the Gentiles, nor to the Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So within the confines of the covenant community, there are those who are classified as lost, and that they are in need of redemption.

So the very fact that they had a.

External.

Covenantal relationship with God did not qualify them for being kingdom people. There was a need for repentance and for the lost to be found. So the gospel is proclaimed and taught. And Jesus, as he goes along in his ministry, over and over again, we see his rejection.

And Chris, by the way, if you want to stop or interrupt me, please do. I don't want to become too much of a monologue here on your program. But if you want to stop me on anything, please do. But as Christ goes along in his ministry, we see over and over again that Jews were constantly adverse to Christ, rejecting him, despising him, wanting to kill him, especially as we know in the Gospel of Luke when Jesus talks about when he opens up the scriptures and the spirit of the Lord God, he says is upon him.

And he goes on to talk about there were many widows, but he went to the widow who was a Gentile. There were many lepers, but he went to Naaman who was not a Jewish person and that was offensive to them.

And when we trace the gospel ministry as it continues from Luke into the book of Acts, who wrote both Luke and Acts, we see over and over again the constant refusal of Israelites,.

Not.

All Israelites, but we know that's a fact, but many of the Israelites, the Jews, refused the gospel of Jesus Christ, that he was Lord, that he was king, that he was even risen from the dead. So we start again with John the Baptist.

Christ carries a message. And finally, Jesus, it's near the end of his ministry. He has to state this, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given unto a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

So there's indications that the kingdom would be taken from them. He said, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but ye would not.

And then he goes on to say when he returns, he says, I'm leaving your house desolate. When I return, you will say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. That's a key text because some would argue that, see, when Jesus returns, that's when the Jews will turn to Christ.

So a lot of people have a problem with seeing the church as being the Israel of God is because they see a future national restoration. They see Israel in the land right now. They see, they think some of the promises that are of the Old Testament or prophetical passages are being fulfilled in the current time, and they don't want to acknowledge that the Jews are ousted.

From.

From becoming God's people once again. In Romans chapter 3, we have, it begins by saying to what advantage then has a Jew much every way chiefly that unto them were committed the oracles of God. They definitely had an advantage over all the nations of the earth.

It tells us in Amos that thee only have I known of all nations on the earth. And it tells us in Deuteronomy 7, 6, the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself above all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

Some Christians want to believe that the Jews have a separate category of a relationship with God apart from faith, repentance, and believing in Jesus Christ, and they're almost equal with the believers, the church in this current age.

So trying to get to your questions that we're raising, Chris, as to whether is the church Israel would be better framed by saying, is the church the Israel of God? In the Old Testament, Israel is viewed as the apple of God's eye.

Would it not be appropriate to say of the church, the church is the ones who Christ loved and gave himself for her. Christ loved the church and gave himself for her and died on the cross for them. So the church then, according to Galatians chapter 6, 15, Israel likes to whom it says there that as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy and upon the Israel of God.

Who is Paul claiming is the Israel of God in the book of Galatians? He couldn't be isolating the Jewish community of the faithful from the Gentiles who are also spiritual offsprings of Abraham. That would be a deflection from the theme of the book of Galatians who's trying to say to them that Jew and Gentile, all the spiritual offspring of Abraham are united together as being a part of that one olive tree.

There are not two olive trees, there's one olive tree. So has the church, and this is getting more specific, has the church replaced Israel? Well, after Christ rose from the dead, he tells his disciples to go into the world and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name.

And that would take place after the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the apostles and the commission for them was that they were, after they received power, they would be witnesses of Christ in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth.

That's really the table of contents for the book of Acts. So the ministry of the gospel begins in Jerusalem, and we know at Pentecost, Peter receives the spirit along with the other apostles and is empowered to preach the gospel and present the gospel.

And many of them who heard said, men and brethren, what shall we do to be saved? And Peter says, repent, just like Jesus had said that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name. And who are those that receive the message of repentance and believe?

They that gladly received his word were baptized in the same day that were added unto them about 3 ,000 souls. Who was the audience that Peter was addressing? He was addressing men who were devout men from all regions of the earth who had come together for the feast of Pentecost, primarily, and maybe even Passover.

They would have been there for a length of time. So even in that audience, there would have been a mixture of Gentiles, devout men, proselytes, no doubt, who are hearing now the gospel and repenting and believing and therefore being joined to the church.

So we could say that what God is doing is he's, as Paul says in Romans chapter one, it's to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. The first opportunities of hearing the gospel of the risen Christ, which is really, we could call that the greater salvation.

How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? Hebrews 2, 3. The gospel has always been there from the beginning. And thy seed that was promised back in Genesis chapter three, that seed was always there as a gospel handout to people or opportunity for people.

But in the New Testament, that gospel is magnified and heightened by the greatness of the appearance of the Messiah and his accomplished work on the cross as atoning death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, and then enthronement.

And Chris, where is Christ enthroned? It's very distinct that Peter's saying he's enthroned on the throne of David. So here we have Jewish language that Jesus, the Messiah, risen from the dead is on the throne of David, which makes him a king.

We get that language in Acts chapter 17, where they were preaching another king, one Jesus. He's the other king. So we have the Davidic promise that through the generations of time, there would be a greater than David who sit on his throne.

And that's Jesus Christ now who's sitting on the throne, which his kingship is hailed. He's Lord. And these now are required to bow to Jesus as king and as Lord. And prior to that, Peter says about the prophecy of Joel, this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters and so on.

That was happening right there. It wasn't something postponed to a post-church age. It was something that had been predicted by Joel as occurring in the last times. In Jesus, we know half in these last days appear unto us.

So eschatology and theology are really commingled. And I think if you have one wrong and the other one right, or if they're not properly aligned, I think you're probably going to come to a faulty conclusion.

So one of the big questions, is God done with Israel? Well, as the book of Acts unfolds, it tells us in Acts chapter 326, God raised up Jesus unto you first God, having raised up Jesus, sent him to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

So Christ was risen from the dead. And guess what? The first opportunity for conversion, repentance and salvation was proposed to the Jews. That's why in Acts 319, Peter says that repent ye therefore and be converted so that your sins may be blotted out.

So Christ is exalted and those who repent and believe him, they have the opportunity to be saved. In this presentation, in chapter 3 of Acts, I'm in right now, verse 23, Peter says, quoting from the book of Deuteronomy 18, 15 and following, where it was predicted that a greater than Moses would come.

Moses says it, that there will be a prophet who God will raise up. Him shall you hear. Peter quotes that verse and says in Acts 3, 23, every soul which will not hear that prophet shall be destroyed. Notice this, from among the people.

So there is an extraction of Jews from the people of God. So getting back to the metaphor of the olive tree, we have the olive tree is the plant, you could say, of God's people. But in the New Testament, we have the branches are broken off.

The natural branches, the branches that have natural connections, descendant wise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, those are broken off in the unnatural branches. That's the Gentiles who were wild plants.

They are grafted in and with them are partakers of the root and the fatness of the olive tree. So that's important to see that the connection that the church has is with the Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And we draw from the root and the fatness of that olive tree.

So there you can see a continuity between the old and the new. And in the new, there's a refinement of who the people of God are. And that refinement comes with the teaching of the new covenant. The new covenant is composed of people, only people who have been circumcised inwardly, who are born of the spirit and have the indwelling of the spirit.

They are the children of God. Romans 9 verse 8 says, or verse 6 rather, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So the natural seed, because of their unbelief and blindness and part that has happened to them, they were cut off. So now who are the ones that come into the olive tree? Who are the ones that partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree?

It is the church, the church age. So we need to probably, and I know I'm all over the place here, because I'm trying to cover a lot of material and a short, you know,.

Yes, well, believe me, this is all necessary because you're laying an essential bedrock from which we are going to be presenting the case you're making.

So, let me finish what I wanted to say about Acts. So we have Peter mentioning that Jesus is risen from the dead and seated on the throne of David. That's very significant. So those who were repenting were repenting towards God and putting faith in Jesus Christ, and they were now added to the ecclesia, the gathered out one.

So they're united to the king, their servants, their subordinates. They're in the family of the king. And then chapter 13, we have Paul preaching in the synagogue and he uses the expression, the sure mercies of David.

Then when we get to Acts chapter 15, the Lord is building again what was ruined and had fallen down, the tabernacle of David. So these are Jewish terms that have application to the church. We see Jesus on the throne of David.

We have the sure mercies of David, and we are a part of the tabernacle of David. And then if we take this further, we find that we are the ones who are circumcised. Now, some may not take Romans 2, 28 and 29 as being strictly applicable to Gentiles and Jews, and some would see it as applicable only to Jews.

When it says he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, and circumcision is not that of the flesh, but the true circumcision is a circumcision that is in the heart by the spirit. Like Colossians says, we're circumcised without hands.

So whether or not you see the Gentile as being able to be called a Jew, I think we can at least say that we have a spiritual offspring of Abraham. So has the church replaced Israel? It's better to think of it that the church is the church age, the people of God.

It's a fulfillment of the promises that were made in the Old Testament of the Abrahamic promise that he would become the father of many nations. And those who are of the nations that are connected to Father Abraham are those that have the faith, like Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.

The same thing is applicable to us. We believe God. We have righteousness imputed to us. Therefore, we are in the spiritual family of Abrahams. We can call Abraham our father, and we are the circumcised.

It tells us there in Philippians 3, and we know that this has Gentile applications. It says that we are the circumcision who worship God in spirit. We are the true circumcision. So we are viewed—maybe you might not want to use the word.

I don't have a problem with it for me to say that I'm a true Jew, and by that I would mean that I have the circumcision not made with hands of men, but by the spiritual hands of Christ who has circumcised my heart and made me a true spiritual child of God.

Amen. There's no reason you should be hesitant to proclaim that because it's biblical. It comes from Paul's own words in the inerrant words of Scripture, the God-breathed words of Scripture. But we're going to pick up right where we left off there, Gary, because we have to go to our first break.

And our email address, if anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Gary George, and our discussion on the theme is the Church Israel Today, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Gary, why don't you pick up where you left off and conclude anything that you care to say about the bedrock of what you are defending today, and then I'll move on to some listener questions.

Okay, I think probably what your listeners would be interested in is maybe addressing the question about does the New Testament teach replacement or supersession theology? Has the church replaced Israel?

It's one question to answer by the church being the new Israel of God, but the other question remains, is the church the final and only people of God? Will there be a future for Israel? So I think that might be important to your listening audience.

I think you'd agree with that. So I think we can go in this kind of direction as far as replacement. Has the church replaced Israel? Well, if you believe that there's a future national restoration ahead for Israel, you would obviously say, the church hasn't replaced Israel.

Israel is still on hold. They're suspended until a post-church age, if you're a dispensationalist, or the end of the church age when Israel will be back with a national status before God. But I think the scriptures are pretty clear that there are definitely Jewish things that the church embraces and are classified as being united with, and let me give you some examples of that,.

For instance.

Melchizedek has replaced Aaron, right? Who is a high priest? And ironically, if you hold to a future Ezekielian temple and are going back to a ethnic priesthood of the Zadokites or the Levites who will be conducting ceremonies and sacrifices in the future temple, then how is it that Melchizedek will have to forfeit his Melchizedek forever priesthood classification and yield it back to Aaron?

But rather, one has given way to the other. The Melchizedek priesthood has eclipsed or replaced the Aaronic priesthood. I think maybe your listeners have not really considered that possibly. It's obvious that the new covenant has replaced the old covenant.

So we are a covenant people. Israel was a covenant people. They had a relationship with God, an external one, the new covenant people of God, those that have been born again, those that have been circumcised inwardly, those that have the new nature, those that don't have to be taught to know the Lord, for they'll know me from the least to the greatest.

It explains that in Hebrews chapter eight, in Hebrews chapter 10. So couldn't we say that the new covenant has replaced the old covenant? I'm just trying to give your audience some ideas about the use of the word replacement and examples of replacing old with the new.