Ron Paul On The Situation In Afghanistan

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Welcome back everybody to another episode of Apologia Radio. This is the gospel heard around the world. You get more at ApologiaStudios .com.

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A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com. I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. That's Luke the

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Bear right there. What up? And you read the title right. We have an epic show today. This is the show where we talk for the second time to Dr.

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Ron Paul. Dr. Ron Paul, you know, ran for president three times. Should have been president three times.

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He's our favorite liberty loving Texan and we're grateful to have him on the show. Dr. Paul, thank you for joining us.

00:34

Thank you. It's really nice to be with you today. Absolutely. Thank you so much. We're excited.

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So I know we have limited time with you today. So Dr. Paul, I wanted to launch right into it. Two specific things to talk to you about today.

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One is I wanted to talk to you from the standpoint of liberty and the standpoint of the principles that actually built this nation.

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I want to talk to you about the vaccine mandates. And I'd also like to talk to you about sort of your perspective right now, what's going on in Afghanistan.

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So to start with the vaccine mandates, I'd love to hear you and your perspective in terms of how do you feel about this when you see places like New York mandating vaccines and masks to go into restaurants and public areas.

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And you see certain states making the move that looks like they're going in the direction of vaccine mandates. You have businesses right now letting people go, people having to quit their jobs because they don't want to take the vaccine.

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How do you feel about that from the perspective of liberty? I strongly disagree with it.

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I'm not totally surprised because, you know, it's a smoldering problem that we've had and it's been going on for a good many years.

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And that is the shifting away from limited government being there for the purpose of protecting liberty to that where the government is supposed to manage our lives, our medical care, our education, and just about everything, and telling other people how to live, and getting involved in other countries that we've more or less sold out to the basic principle.

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But this is just, you know, one more big wop of it, you know, coming down hard. That even though the government's been involved in medicine, you know, in a free society, and even under our constitution, you're supposed to have a separation of the government.

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We know about religion, separation of church and state, and a lot of people still, you know, at least pay lip service and understand that.

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But that should apply to economic matters. It should apply to social matters. It should apply to medical matters.

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So people should make their own minds up. People say, oh, that'd be terrible, terrible. The government has to take care of us.

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The government's there to protect us. And that's where the flaw is. Government is not there to protect us and make us safe and secure because they're incapable of doing it.

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And any effort to do that has to be done at the sacrifice of liberty. After 9 -11, of course, there was a big move on to expand the government, which they did, and they passed the

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Patriot Act and other legislation like that. And we would, I'd have people that knew me well and liked me and liked less government.

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They said, Ron, under these circumstances, the government has to keep us safe and secure.

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But under these conditions is when you better be really careful about protecting our liberties, because when a country is at war, technically we didn't call that a war, but if we're at war, people say, well, for national security purposes, you have to sacrifice your liberty.

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But I counteract that by saying I don't believe that you ever have to sacrifice any liberty to be safe and secure.

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Besides, the government's not very good at making us safe and secure. As a matter of fact, they get in the way and interfere with our choices, especially right now in medical choices and international choices.

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And what about all the military operations? They haven't made us safe and secure. They've endangered us mainly because they shouldn't even be making efforts.

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They should be protecting our right to take care of ourselves and our obligation to take care of ourselves.

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And I think if we follow those rules, we'd all be a lot better off. That's right.

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Dr. Paul, it's a good point. You mentioned two things there I guess would be good to talk about. One is you mentioned limited government as though that meant something, as though there's some principle or some foundation that that comes from.

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You also mentioned economic matters. So on those two points, one, limited government. When you say limited government,

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Dr. Paul, what do you mean by limited government? Where does that come from? Why is that important? Well, it comes from the founding, and that is what the founders wanted, and that's why they made an effort in the

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Constitution. The Declaration of Independence is a little clearer on exactly what they wanted.

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They wanted to get rid of the authoritarians from across the ocean, telling them how to live. But the

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Constitution was meant to restrain the government and tell us what the government can't do. And now it's turned into they're allowed, those who object to what we're talking about, they object to it, and they say that the government can do anything that they want unless there's a prohibition in the

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Constitution. Defaulting the Constitution is a good step in this direction, and the whole problem is that there's a tremendous momentum, and now with the momentum we've had now for 100 years, where we more or less rejected this, you know, 100 years ago, the

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Progressive Era really had a climactic entrance in 1913, when they said, well, we have to have an income tax, we have to have a

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Federal Reserve, we have to print money, deficits don't matter, our obligation is to make the world a safer democracy, and this sort of thing.

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So we went off on a tangent, and the worst part of that was that the moral and the intellectual fiber of the country was shifting, and that is when these ideas were put into concrete in our universities, and now we're seeing the consequence of that, because they want to make a step forward, and it's now not even embarrassing for a politician to say, well, you know,

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I believe in Marxism, and I believe in socialism, and it's straightforward, it's coming out of our universities, so we have a moral, we have a financial crisis, but I think we have a moral crisis too, and both are facing bankruptcy.

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That's right, bankruptcy, that gets right to the economy. You have been a champion of just taxation in your work over decades, you've also been a champion of ending the

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Fed. Just give me like 60 seconds here, why would that be important in terms of ending the

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Fed, getting back to the gold standard, why are those principles important? Well, if you grant those to the government, the government welcomes them, and there's always, not the majority of the people, but there's a lot of noise comes from those people who like it, and they become the leaders, so all they need is 5 -10 % of the people promoting interventionism, and they entice you to join in, because it's just moderation, it's just, we don't want authoritarianism, we don't want dictatorship, but we have to have government, so they move in, and then there's this momentum of growth of government, and they get involved, and I think it has to be a rejection on principle, so if the government's not supposed to take care of us, say, okay, all our medical problems, then you can't do a little bit, because if you have a little bit, all of a sudden it's too big, if you have a little bit of an income tax, yeah, we'll just tax the rich, all of a sudden it runs out of control, okay, we're having a problem, we're having an interventionist problem, we have a war to fight, we have to have a little bit of inflation, just for a while, then we'll quit, no, it's 100 % of the principle, and before you know it, it's out of control, and we've been incrementally allowing our governments to do this, incrementally, and now we have a mess, because it's totally out of control, and yet I'm still an optimist about it, because I think we're waking up a lot of people, and I'm glad to come on radio programs like yours, because I think you're trying to do the same thing.

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Thank you, absolutely, sir, and just quickly, people don't understand really, when you say gold standard, how is that meaningful, what for, what's wrong with paper money?

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Well, because it's dishonest, it's considered immoral, because people can counterfeit it easily, and it can be manipulated, the founders were so determined to have a moral principle on money, that they actually issued the death penalty in the

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Cornish Act of 1792, that if you were a counterfeiter of government papers, including the money, they thought it was so bad, that they would issue the death penalty,

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I doubt if it was ever used that way, but that's how strongly they felt about it, but it's an honesty thing, it's stealing, because if I'm in charge of the government, and I have control of the printing press, and you've saved up a couple hundred dollars, and you want to use it later on, well, what if I have power to counterfeit the money, then all of a sudden, the money you have has become less valuable, instead of being worth $100, it's worth $50, and yet if I get to do it,

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I get to use that money immediately, so to me, it's a moral principle, it's theft that's going on, I think instead of saying printing money and increasing the money, we should always use the word counterfeiting, counterfeiting people understanding, because it's dishonest, and the fact that if the politicians had to hold their feet to the fire, they couldn't expand without permission of the people, they would at least have to grant the taxation or whatever, but this way, it's a sneaky way to tax and expand the role of government, expand and create the welfare state, and get involved in the world empire, which we see and we're witnessing some of the really blowback from that, with what we're seeing in Afghanistan, so honest money is a great tool for putting pressure on those who are in government, to be honest about what they're doing, and that's one of the first things they do, the dictators get in, is they take over the money supply, just think of what happened early on, a month after Roosevelt was elected president, he took over the gold, he stole the gold from the people, because he knew that they had to spend a lot of money, there'd be wars coming and there'd be a welfare state, and this gives license to dictatorships, and even though they don't call that dictatorship, it's a license to enlarge the government, so all governments drift that way, the world now has been operating since 1971 with a total fiat currency, it's impossible to operate this, anything with fiat currency for prolonged periods of time, and eventually it undermines liberty, the society breaks it down, and then they have a choice, either rolling over and doing exactly what the dictators want you to do, or the people wake up and say, what we want is honest government, and that's what the founders tried to do, but there were some flaws in the constitution, that didn't quite work out as well, and there were too many loopholes, and the biggest loophole came from the people, and Adams warned that, if you don't have a moral people, this constitution is not going to do you much good, and all of a sudden it's the people that endorse the spending, they want part of the action.

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Yes, and so this problem with the monetary system, is ultimately our money is lying to us, people are lying to us about the money, and that's why it's an important issue to address, and so you have inspired me so much sir, in that you've even gone before Congress and the people, and you've stood up for what in your words before Congress, Christian just war theory, oftentimes you were going against the grain of people in your own party, and they were seen as conservatives, you were talking about the fact that we need to have a declaration of war, according to the constitution, we need to do this in a way that is just, and again you even invoke the terminology of Christian just war theory, which

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I so value and so highly respect, now you were speaking against the way, that we entered into the conflict in Afghanistan, you were speaking against the way, that we were spending money there for so many years, and you were saying as you're running for president, that you would get us out of Afghanistan, what is your perspective on how

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President Biden actually did this, in terms of pulling out of Afghanistan, leaving behind weapons,

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Donald Trump, President Trump said, that he would have at least gotten the Americans out, and our allies out first before he pulled out troops, how would you have handled that, because you wanted this conflict to be ended in a just way, and you wanted us to enter into any war in a just way, what's your perspective on that?

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We shouldn't argue the case, it would be simple and there'd be no problems and no ramifications, because it wouldn't be, it would be difficult, the best thing is to avoid that prevention, the best way was with the argument we made 20 years ago, say let's not do this, this is bad news, even after the 10 year period,

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I was saying look you got to stop, and that is the biggest thing, but the longer it goes the more difficult it is, what's the best thing to do about the monetary system, quit inflating, but the immediate result of quitting, quit inflating, that collapses the whole system, that is collapsing on its own at a different pace, but if you do that, if you just closed it down, there'd be blood in the streets, there'd be revolution, killing, and a total breakdown of society, but it's going to happen anyway, if we continue to do it, so the thing of it is, in theory, and I'm pessimistic, that we won't get enough people in Washington to do it, that you could just spend 5 % less money every year, 5 % just cut it, it doesn't seem like much, but we're always increasing it 20%, then we hide it, matter of fact it's tremendously increased, just think of since COVID came out, they've literally created trillions of dollars, it goes out through the banking system, it's not even on the books, it's the disobedience to law and order, not only with the monetary system, but the way they get involved, and the people suffer the consequences, so it to me is a very serious problem, but I don't think the problem is overwhelming,

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I think it's rather simple, it's the transition that is tough, but you have to get the people to believe, they'd rather live in a free society, than in a slave society, and right now there's a lot of confusion, because still there's a lot of people who say,

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Ron you're okay, everything is there, but we have to have government keeping us safe, and certainly take care of us if we get sick, and certainly government has to help educate us, well

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I disagree with that. Dr. Paul thank you sir, you're a hero of freedom and liberty, and it's an honor again to speak with you, thank you for joining us today.

15:32

Thank you, it's great being with you. Thank you sir, God bless. Well there you go, Dr. Ron Paul, thank you so much.

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A lot in a short amount of time. I know, he's good at that, he's good at the good solid responses, that will actually get you thinking, he's written books on this, he has a book called,

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I think the book is called, End the Fed. Verdure. Yeah, and so the last couple of days, we knew we were getting

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Ron Paul on, so I was looking back at some of the greatest hits, of Dr. Ron Paul. Ron Paul is the greatest.

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You know it's interesting, because one of the things I think is important, and I want to just say, as we start this conversation, all respect to the men and women, who risked their lives, and even some that sacrificed their lives, going to these wars.

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I want to encourage everybody, we'll put a link underneath this show, in the description, so you guys can go check this out later, and get more on this.

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Our friend Douglas Wilson, did an excellent lecture, on Christian just war theory, and he actually in that lecture, not only lays the foundation of historically, what

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Christians from scripture developed, in terms of Christian just war theory. I mean it goes all the way back, even in part to like Augustine, the development of this, and they didn't just do it willy -nilly, they were saying like, how would

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God have us fight a war, because we live in a fallen world.

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Yeah, that's right. People are murderous, people are evil, people come and invade people's communities, people killed, and destroy, and rape, and so Christians understood, if you love your neighbor, and you have a government, that has yielded to Jesus Christ, you want the government fighting a war, in a way that's pleasing to Jesus.

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Right. And Doug's point in there, I think it's really important, is that we don't have, a prophetic word from God, in terms of like,

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Luke's the living prophet today, speaking for God, who's delivering actual, current revelation from God, we don't have that benefit today.

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In Israel they have God, specifically telling them, exactly how to wage a war, and fight it, and what not, we don't have that.

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And they still didn't get it right. They did today. Yeah, oftentimes. So, what do we have today? Well, we have this revelation from God, given to us in scripture, so we have to think hard thoughts.

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And so, I just want to encourage everybody, as you're thinking about, Christian just war theory, all that, I'm going to make sure you guys, listen to that link, to get a good full lecture.

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And Doug deals with a lot of principles, he also deals with a lot of the conflicts, like what if you find yourself, being a Christian, fighting in an unjust war?

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Right. Doug talks about that, in terms of principle. But I want to say to all of the people, who are in armed forces,

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I'm a military brat, I'm an Air Force brat, grew up my entire life, until I was an adult, going base to base.

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My father was in the military. I do love our military. And so, but I think it's important as Christians, that we think about this, in terms of a

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Christian category. Exactly. How would God have us wage a war? What's pleasing to Him?

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Because in the end, and this is one of the things Doug points out, is that, you know, the military is doing what they're doing, to serve their neighbor, and their country, to, in their mind, fight a just war.

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The people who are going to answer to God, primarily, for the waging of a war, are the leadership.

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Exactly. And so, there's stuff in terms of like, Christian leaders, and kings, and everything else in the past, you know, invoking the name of God, when they go to wage a war, like, let me die, if I'm doing this wrong.

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Because you're thoughtful, like, is this pleasing to God? Is this right? Is this right intentions? That sort of a thing.

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Do we have a proper goal? Like, do we have an aim, and a goal, and an end in mind?

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Because, that would be immoral. Right. To just kind of go into a war, with no real end in mind. You have people's lives at stake.

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You're talking about, you know, I know many people listening to this show, are probably going to have family members, who even died. Wives, that lost their husbands.

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Children, who lost their fathers, fighting the war in Afghanistan. And so, all love, and honor, and respect to the armed forces.

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But like, moving forward, I think we have to say, like, this is chaos. Oh, totally. It's absolute chaos.

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It's mayhem. I mean, I was just reading a story today, of a man, who was in Afghanistan.

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He's dead now. He was, he was captured by the Taliban. He was known, to be somebody, who was working with the

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U .S. So, they burned his badge, into his chest, cut his arms off, and killed him. You know, this is a mess.

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But, in talking to Dr. Paul, my, I want to hear what you have to say to this. My concern was, okay, we can all have a million answers, as to what was, what would have been the best way, to pull out.

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You know, God bless Trump. Trump, has been trying to pull us out of, out of Afghanistan, for a long time.

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He even said that, in an interview, last night. You know, he was trying to bring down the troops, and get us out of there, for American lives.

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Yeah. So, that's a good thing. And everybody agreed, if you were a fan of Trump, and a supporter of Trump as president, everybody agreed, that's good.

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Get us out. But he, his argument was, I wouldn't have gotten us out of there, without first, getting out, the

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American citizens, and our allies. And all of our weapons, and vehicles, and all of our weapons, and vehicles, and black hop helicopters, all that stuff.

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Like, he would say, the military would have been last, to pull out. So, whatever your, opinion is, about us moving, and how we would have gotten out of this, in a better way.

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I think Dr. Paul, was really on to something, and I, I respect his boldness, that he said before, the

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U .S. Congress, we need to get back to tradition, and he said specifically, the words,

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Christian, just war theory. You don't wage a war, unless it's a defensive posture, and you, and again, there's more principles involved, in Christian just war theory, in terms of right intention, have an end in mind, it has to be a just cause, all that stuff.

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So, what do you think right now? Because it's a big, obviously it's a big deal right now. I mean, there's a lot, a lot to digest, and obviously we don't know, a lot of the facts yet.

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It's just, like you said, it's just complete chaos, at the moment. But I mean, ultimately, our nation was founded, on a just war.

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Right. Like we wouldn't exist, if it wasn't for a just war. You know, and obviously, we're very careful, to say the war, for independence, and not the revolutionary war, because they weren't, forming a revolution.

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The way that Marxists, see that today. Exactly. They were fighting for liberty, and their independence, which we find ourselves, very similarly, in that situation, in many ways today.

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So yeah, I mean, so we can't ignore it, but I mean, as far as what's going on, right now, what

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I hate, is when people, I see people on like, Facebook, and social media, approaching this, like it's a black and white issue, and it's not.

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You know, and so, there's people I see, that are even, very like -minded with us, where they're like, well yeah, we shouldn't be there, glad Biden's right, for pulling this out, and it's like, well, it's not that simple.

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We can't just say that, especially the way, he's handling it. And that's a good point. Sorry, I don't want to,

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I want to keep you, on the same track. But that's, I think what Dr. Paul, was referring to, when he said like, well, let me bring the discussion, back to the monetary issue.

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Yeah. Is it a moral? Yes, but you can't just stop it. Right. Now. Yeah. You can't cut it off, immediately.

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You know, let's just do it right. Let's just do what's right, because the consequences, the ripple effects, of like doing that, to the economy, is mayhem.

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Yeah. And when you're fighting a war, even if it was unjust, to begin with. You know, and people are losing lives, you still have to say, okay, and that's one of the things,

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Doug talks about as well, is like your exit, out of the war, has to also be just. Right.

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Has to, you know, your fighting even, has to be proportional, like you don't, you don't kill ants, with a baseball bat.

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Right. You know, sort of a thing. Well, yeah, because now he's, the way they're handling it, is there's gonna be, untold amounts, of innocent lives lost.

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Right. Because of the way, he's handling it. And Christians. Well, that's, that's the thing, we've talked about this, before too, like, you know, should we be over there, essentially, what we've been doing, is acting as police.

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Right. And it's not our business. Right. We would all agree, that we shouldn't be doing that. But, now, he's pulling out, the police force, and there's an opportunity, for rescue missions, especially, if they're literally, going to exterminate

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Christians. Kill Christians. And they have been. You know, like, I heard there was, even was it yesterday, there was a woman out, out in public, not wearing a hijab, and they just shot her.

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Like, in public. You know, and so, like, there's an opportunity, to rescue people, and get them out.

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You know, like, there's, they're literally, military planes leaving, and there's people, hanging off the planes.

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So, so terrible. Falling to their death. Heartbreaking, yeah. Yeah, you know, and then, and it's just because, it was such a, like a brash, decision, you know, and.

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I guess we're supposed to leave, so let's leave. Yeah. It's like, well, there's some stuff, you should do first. Yeah, exactly. Make sure. Oh, and here's our guns, you can shoot us, as we're leaving.

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Yeah, so the point we're making, is that, you know, we need to pay attention, to Christian history, and someone like, even

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Dr. Ron, Ron Paul, who says, we need to get back to the tradition, of Christian just war theory. We're saying, amen to that.

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Yeah. But, we've got one of the longest wars, in, in history, U .S. history. We got ourselves into it, we lost

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American lives, and spilled American blood. People lost family members, because of, because of this, and, and their intentions were,

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I'm fighting something that's just. Exactly. They were trying to do it, in the right way, and so there's, there's something due, in terms of the honor, to their memories, and to their sacrifice, to make sure, that this is done in the best, and most appropriate way possible.

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Right. I think leaving behind, military equipment, billions of dollars, of military equipment, in that way, and leaving behind,

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Americans and allies, and everything else to suffer, and even, considering the Christians, who are going to be abused there, you have a, you have a moral responsibility, to do it in a way that actually, is most effective.

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And I just say, everyone's going to agree with this, it's not most effective, to leave behind all your weapons. Yeah. And even things like,

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I think, you know, Donald Trump said, on his interview, I was trying to see, what was his perspective, how would he respond, to those sorts of things, and I also wanted to get, the position of even

25:29

Dr. Paul. Yeah. But he said that, you know, when you leave behind, that kind of equipment, China and Russia, love to get their hands on it, so now they can figure out.

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They can literally drive, and pick it up. We'll, we'll pick it up, we'll buy it, we'll buy it from the Taliban, because now we get to see, American technology, and figure out how it works, and try to upgrade our military.

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So there's just so many consequences, and I will say this, Christians, I think it's important, for all of us, we all make mistakes, we're not always, going to get everything right, but I think it's important, for us to not look like, absolute hypocrites.

25:57

Yeah. To acknowledge, when resident Biden, says, I'm sorry, yeah, resident

26:04

Biden, when he says, look, we're not, we didn't go into this, to build a nation, we're not in the nation, building business,

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I'd say, well, I'd like you to be more consistent, with that in the future, and around the rest of the world, but it is true, we're, it's actually, not what we're, supposed to be doing, in a war like this, is building a nation, like that's not, what we got into it for.

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So that's not, what we're supposed to do, so he's right on that, you got to at least say, acknowledge truth, when truth is spoken, even if it's coming from, the mouth of your enemy, because he is an enemy, of this nation's principles, and ideals, and the

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Christian faith, and all the rest, the gospel itself, morality, but if he says, and that's true, you know, say, you know, you're right, and, we're not supposed to be, building a nation here, and it is true, yeah, everyone has to acknowledge this, and I think even

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Trump, would have said this, last year, for everyone that's a, fan of Trump, you know, if the

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Afghan military, abandons post, today, then what's another, five years, and trillions of more dollars, and more

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American blood, spilled in Afghanistan, going to do, how about 10 or 15 years, what are we going to, extend this now, and, give our children, the opportunity, the opportunity, to shoulder a debt, for a war, that we shouldn't have been in, in the first place, and it shouldn't have been, waged this war, way, we can't, if they're doing it now, then we can't invest, another 15 years, in an even longer war, and I think, something needs to be said, about that from a

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Christian, we don't want bloodshed, we don't want, our children to be saddled, with a ton of debt, that right now, we can never, we can't repay this,

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I mean, it's bankruptcy, it's bankruptcy, or go, you know, it's, that's how it's going to end, so,

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I think it's important, for us to try to ask, deeper questions, and respond to this, in a Christian way, with principle, and scripture, because that's the only, real answer, and, this is really interesting,

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I was talking to, I think Isaac, about this yesterday, I think this is really important, people see, the

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Taliban, coming in now, and murdering people, and you said, shooting a woman in the head, and, trying to impose,

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Sharia law, and they're like, oh my gosh, that is so foreign, and that is so evil, and should never be done, and my answer to that is, well yeah, except in principle, everybody's trying to impose, the laws of their

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God, right? Whose morality? Whose morality, not whether, there's going to be a God, of the system, or whether we're going to, impose morality, but it's, which

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God, and what morality, whose morality, and so when you look at, what the

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Taliban's doing now, what are they doing, this is really important, they are doing, whatever they want to do, they want, their ultimate, in charge, they want, the laws of their

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God, to be, the accepted laws, now it just turns out, their God is, a false God, and his laws are unjust, you don't cut someone's hand off, for stealing, not according to God, so, they want

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Allah's God, they want Allah to be ultimate, and supreme, okay? And how do they do it? They do it by force, and violence, they don't, they don't, they don't do what, the gospel does, and work from the heart out, right?

29:07

So they do it, with a sword, bombs, bullets, the secularists, do the same thing, this is the amazing thing, when you see like, a humanist today, a secularist, an atheist, looking at what's going on, in Afghanistan right now, and saying things like, oh how horrifying, that they would actually, force the laws of their

29:24

God, on society, through coercion, and violence, and threat, it's like, that's precisely, what you do, but your

29:31

God is different, it's not Allah, it's not the Quran, it's not the Hadith, it is,

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Demas, like, the people are ultimate, and whatever whim they have, in that generation, that's the

29:43

God, and morality of the system, and you also do it, through a threat of coercion, and force, and violence,

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I mean, what happens to a person, if they say, hey this income tax, is getting unjust, I think 50 % of my income, is a little unjust, what happens if they decide, like I'm gonna actually, argue with the government, and I'm gonna decide, just not to pay that right now, what can happen?

30:03

Through coercion, and force, you're going to jail, because you violated the laws, of the system, that current morality, and you can go down the line, in current

30:12

American law, where it's the imposition, of a morality, of an ultimate, and that's the people, we say, and so how do they enforce it?

30:20

Coercion, and threat and force, I don't want the vaccine, exactly, there's a tweet,

30:27

I'm gonna look up real quick, and so, if the government decides, every American, will put the jab in their arm, and put the substance, into their system, and their kids, if they just said, everyone will do it, how do you think, they're gonna accomplish that?

30:39

Through coercion, and through force, so they're gonna uphold, the morality, of their system, the ultimate of their system, now, what's the difference, between Christianity, and all that nonsense, is that, we say, that our, our methodology, of the world changing, and society transforming, and good and just laws, being put on the books, is prophetic, it's word, not weapon, and so, it's from the heart, we want everyone, to be changed, through a prophetic word, from God, this is what

31:12

God says, we want their eyes, to be open, their heart to be changed, Christianity, does not extend, and expand, via the sword, and via force, ours is prophetic, it's word, not weapon, and so, everybody wants, their

31:25

God to be ultimate, everybody wants, the morality of their God, to be the ultimate, but, humanism, secularism, and man -made religion, they get it, through force, coercion, and the sword,

31:38

Christianity says, it can't be, through the sword, it has to be, through the word of God, it has to be, a heart change, transformation, you know, that's why also, it's good to talk about, when people say, yeah, we look at the issue of abortion, 60 plus million babies, have been murdered, and they're still being murdered,

31:54

I mean, shouldn't people rise up, and do something against that, and they'll even sort of like, hint at like, through physical force, and violence, and the answer is, not, no, not in this case, this, this is, this is not like that, this is prophetic, this is the word, you want the word, to change the heart of the legislators, and you want the word, to change the heart of the communities, and that's why we go to the abortion mills, to preach the gospel, and offer help, and love, and that's why we go to our legislators, and we say,

32:17

God demands that you uphold justice, for these human beings, and it's amazing too, I was talking to one of our guys, who was speaking to a legislator, in some unknown state,

32:24

I won't say, and the legislator, was sort of, backtracking, like, I don't know if I can put this in, and I don't know, if I'm going to do this, and, and, and what changed it, that they like, grab his head, and force him on the table, and say, you know, you put this law in, sort of a thing,

32:40

Allah says, no, the, it was words coming from our guys, saying, you're going to stand before God one day, and you're going to have to answer, for how you responded here,

32:50

God calls you, to uphold justice, for these babies, you need to love them, and it's like, the scales came off of his eyes, and he was like, oh yeah, we're doing this now, and how do you, that's, that's the law of God, being heralded, and loved, and held up, because somebody, through word, transformed.

33:09

The prophetic, the prophetic vision. That's right. Proverbs says, people cast off restraint, where there's no prophetic vision.

33:15

That's exactly right. I was just, yeah, I don't want to derail us too much, I saw one, just, it's along the same lines, or I saw a meme, my wife showed me, last night

33:25

I think, which was great, and it was like, it was Biden, and it was like, when it comes to abortion, it's your body, your choice, when it comes to vaccines, it's your body, our choice.

33:36

That's right. And, I saw that, and I was like, oh, that's perfect, but here's the tweet I wanted to, I don't want to derail us too much,

33:43

I saw this, this is from a guy named Josh Dawes, you might have seen it. He said, and I thought this was perfect, he said, where are all the evangelical leaders, calling on Afghanistan Christians, to happily submit to the

33:54

Taliban? Romans 13, right? I thought it was selfish, to be concerned about your rights, where are all the essays, telling them, the church thrives in persecution.

34:02

Oh yeah, and that just goes, the sheer stupidity, of the argument being made, last year, and this year, of Romans 13, submit to your government.

34:11

Again, if you haven't heard us, talk about this before, that's prescriptive, not descriptive. Right. That's what the government, is supposed to be doing, that's what their, their duty before God is, it's not describing, what all governments do.

34:22

Yeah. And of course, we have examples in scripture, of when the government, is asking somebody to sin, or they're doing sinful things, you have apostles, saying things like, we must obey

34:30

God, rather than man, but this really, stupid argument made, that like, hey, you just gotta submit to government, submit to government, that's a fantastic point.

34:38

Yeah, I love it. Them too? Yeah, exactly. How about those Christians, in Afghanistan? Yeah. They've just, created a government, they have all the force and power, and they're saying, you must do this, are those

34:48

Christians, supposed to submit to that? Right. And all of the crazy rules, and Sharia law, and all the stuff, that they're supposed to be doing, that's oppressive, and unjust,

34:56

I say no, I say obey God, rather than men. amen. I think we do need to say, it was interesting,

35:04

I don't know, if you've been receiving messages, the last couple of days, but I got some messages, and people were like, they were like,

35:10

Jeff, I love you man, but you gotta start talking, about Afghanistan. Yeah, that seems familiar. Yeah, and I thought to myself, it goes,

35:17

I think really well, on what we were talking about, on Sunday at church, the sermon on Sunday, that the person, who decides a matter, exactly, when they first hear it, and they come to a conclusion, instantly, before like meditating on it, and asking

35:32

God for wisdom, on all of that, is, it's a shame to him, and he's a fool, he's foolish, and so, you know, when things like this happen,

35:40

I think one of the, this is one way, I want to try to encourage, people here, I think one of the things, that happened, is that the information dump, came this week, about Afghanistan, you saw people falling off, airplanes, and it's tragic, you heard about, all the

35:52

Christian brothers, and sisters, churches growing out there, so quickly, and now they're being murdered, and slaughtered, and so, all of this is coming in, and I think a lot of times, people's first reaction, was to say, bolster up the commitment, to America, bolster up the commitments, and just say, no, we just need to go, and bomb those people, to the stone ages, and it's like, but wait a second, if you stop to think, for a moment, that last year, you were in agreement, with the fact, that we shouldn't be there, and we got to get our people out, to preserve human life, like, hold on, meditate, stop and think, for a second, about the consequences, of like the commitments, that we make, and so, like I saw, even people saying, you know, we need to send, every troop back, and bomb that place, to the stone ages, and just destroy, all the

36:41

Taliban, I thought to myself, so a 30 year long war, after this one, is what you're looking forward to, like, let's stop and think, for a moment, about like what, what got us into this, what was wrong in principle, from a

36:56

Christian perspective, how would God have had us, to wage a war like this, and how would God have had us, to actually exit this war, in a way that honored, the memory of our fallen soldiers, and respected our nation, and the money we're spending for this, and also protected, the innocent lives that are there, you know that's the question, that should be asked, not just like, let's just you know, start beating the war drums, and let's just go back, for 30 more years, because like I said, everyone knows,

37:23

I think resident Biden, is an enemy of this nation, yeah, in terms of his opposition, to the things that make, this nation what it is, or what it was, but you know, if he says something that's right, you have to say, well he's at least right on that, like leaving behind, all the tanks and weapons, and everything else, that's

37:40

I'm going to talk about that, not preserving human life, and protecting them, but he's right, like if the

37:45

Afghan military, just bounces, and the president leaves the country, what's another 10 years going to do, right, you want to continue, waging war in a nation, when they're not willing to fight, for themselves, so I think we need to try, to think of proper categories, like how do we protect, and preserve the

38:03

Christian lives, that are there at this point, we need to be a prayer for them, oh my goodness, they're suffering right now, and how would we, how should we do this better, in the future, because you've mentioned it, a lot of people may not even know, what you're talking about, maybe this would be a good point, to end on today, when you mentioned that our nation, this

38:18

American experiment, this kicked off, with the war for independence, there was a nation here before that, right,

38:27

Christians and communities, and they had a functioning government, all that, but when we had a war with England, in 1776, the war for independence, there was a consistent theme, being preached a lot, and that was that,

38:42

God is not going to bless, an offensive war, and that was what they were fighting for, was do not dare, make this an offensive war, we are going to plead, we're going to beg, we're going to speak prophetically to the king, we're going to send people, to try to negotiate, we're going to say, this is what you've done wrong, but they didn't want to fire the first shot, can you talk about that, you named your son,

39:10

Jonas, after Jonas Clark, he was one of the pastors in the black robe regiment, would preach with his guns up on the pulpit, with his best friends,

39:22

Sam Adams, and John Hancock, and Paul Revere, and they were all at Jonas's house, when

39:27

Paul Revere made his famous ride, and all that, so yeah, I mean actually, so you can't see it, but the don't tread on me came from, that's what that represented, it's on the back of my shirt, that's why

39:38

I'm pointing, but the idea was, the reason it's a rattlesnake, is because a rattlesnake is basically like, hey just leave me alone,

39:48

I'm good, let me do my thing, and live my life, but if you mess with me, you're dead, I'm going to bite you, and that's the whole idea, and that's what you're getting at, is they were saying like, let us live peaceably, and with liberty, and we're good, but you're coming over here, and you're trying to enforce unjust, tyrannical laws and taxation upon us, and we're not having it.

40:14

Right, if you step on me, I'll bite you, exactly, but you have to step on me first, yeah exactly, and that's one of the famous scenes, is when that ride comes in, the direction of Jonas Clark, was you're not to fire, until you're fired upon, and that was important, and that was his congregation, that's exactly right, the people that were killed, in Lexington Green was his people, that's right, and so they called all the men together, to the church, rang the church bells, called everyone in, and specific direction was given, in terms of what does

40:51

God demand of us, and that's that we fight a just war, and that we are not to fire, until fired upon, it was defensive posture only, and guess what,

41:00

God blessed it, and everyone knows the story, of the famous shot heard around the world, there's a reason why all that took place, and the reason why is it was theological, this nation was formed, because of theological beliefs, what was undergirding, all those really great and just things, of the

41:21

Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of Rights, is biblical principles, what's good in it is from God, it's a gift from biblical principles, we talk about all the time, people love their second amendment rights, the reason you have it, is not because of atheism, it's because of a

41:40

Christian worldview, and God's perspective on self -defense, and warfare and weapons even, just preach a sermon on that, and then when you talk about things like, no warrantless search and seizure, that's because you need, two to three independent witnesses and evidence, to bring charges against somebody, that's from God's law, that's why you have to go to a judge, who can examine evidence, that you can actually search somebody stuff, atheism doesn't give that to the world,

42:05

Christianity gives that to the world, the right to remain silent, and not self incriminate, that comes from Moses as well, and so all of this is theological, and so even fighting, and this is why

42:18

I love what Dr. Paul did, before Congress, I was so shocked when I heard it, I was like thank you for saying it out loud, he said we need to get back to tradition, and we need to get back to Christian just war theory, he knows, that there's a foundation to what

42:32

I'm saying, about how we should wage wars, it isn't secular, it isn't humanistic, it's not atheistic, it's

42:38

Christian just war theory, so it's just war theory that's Christian, well how do you find out what's Christian, you go to the word, and so what builds a just world, that has liberty, is the gospel and the word of God, and that's

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I think what we need to get to, and the only way we're going to get there, is if Christians start opening their mouths, and preaching the gospel, and winning this world to Christ, and having a prophetic witness in the world, amen,

43:05

Dr. Ron Paul baby, I know, that's right, alright everybody, thank you so much for joining us, for this special episode of Apologia Radio, we're grateful for all of you, go to ApologiaStudios .com,

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