Why the Disparity Between Managerial Elites and Rank-N-File Members of Institutions?

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Hey everyone, welcome to the conversations that matter podcast I'm your host John Harris and I wanted to show you today a

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Little bit about what it looks like in my neck of the woods during the fall So I'm not far from my house.

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There's a Ridge behind me and it's just spectacular. It's past peak a little bit

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But lots of yellows and reds even some greens still some trees have lost their leaves completely and The Sun's actually starting to go down so you can see it's just Brilliant behind me.

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The sky is is starting to turn to see some yellows and Coming in from there.

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So I'm enjoying it because I can be in a short -sleeved shirt today. There's not many days like this this time of year and It's great for photography when it's kind of overcast which is it is right now so I Thought this was a good setting to talk about What I want to talk about which is answering a important question one that I think we probably all have asked to an extent and that is why is there such a disparity that exists between Those on the bottom of hierarchies today and those at the top in various institutions those who consume goods and services and then those who

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Produce or regulate them And I said in the last podcast that I believe

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That managerial elites today those who do inhabit the tops of these hierarchies

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Behave in ways that were different from those in generations past. I think in generations past especially in Christian civilization, there was much more of A respect a mutual respect for those who

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Were at the bottom of hierarchies. So landowners relied on those who generally lived on their land worked the land labor relationships the same way

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I Gave some examples of this in the last episode. I Think the reason for it though in times past or at least some of the reasons one would be

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There was more of a Christian understanding so look at our Constitution Presidents have to take an oath of office.

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Well, that didn't come out of a vacuum. That's something that was developed in common law tradition and it was developed to take place when a president or a leader would put their hand on a

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Bible and Really declare a belief in a system of rewards and punishments

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In other words there was accountability because no human actually ever inhabited the top of any hierarchy because God was always

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Technically at the top and he would hold those accountable who Had the job of serving or stewarding his resources and his authority

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Well, of course in a secular society, we don't have that incentive there the accountability coming from that If you want to call it fear

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Does not exist So that's one difference. I think also though there's just tangible differences that have developed over the last well since the

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Industrial Revolution, especially in which there's just a distance between those who are produce the laborers if you will and those who

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Actually own or regulate The materials that the laborers consume or use to make their products and and I think this is what

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What it was a struggle. This is in some ways Marxism seeks to answer this question or provide a solution for this this problem, of course

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Marxism just makes it worse Marxism is a Byproduct of modernity and in some ways

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I suppose you had Catholic social teaching that wanted to approach this topic but today

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I think We most people that I come across. We don't even think in these terms.

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We don't it's hard because we're we tend to be presentists and we impose our ideas on the past of what the past the past is like it's always been the way it is and And it all it hasn't it just hasn't and so we assume elites and corruption and all of that it has always been that way sometimes and Of course the human heart is corrupt sin is is has always been there there's no question there's corruption has always existed but The extent and the ways in which it exists and the capacity for it today.

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I Don't think so. I don't think it's the same with technology with the distance between people you can

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You don't have to humanize those that are under you necessarily anymore in many industries

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So we see this disparity we see that let me give you some examples of what I'm talking about in 2020

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We saw this with evangelicals. We we sometimes hear the term Big Eva, which is I think a term of derision more than anything

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At least the way it's used now They went along with what Fauci wanted with what the media want wanted with what academia wanted

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But the government wanted what the World Economic Forum wanted, right? They had actually more trust for them than they did for those in their own pews even those who are doctors sometimes and even if the rank -and -file rebelled against them and The church ceased to exist.

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Let's say if it was a church or they it didn't matter because there was more trust more of an identity with other elites than there was with those in the rank -and -file in their pews

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They didn't take into account I I believe and I'm not saying this across the board I'm saying in general

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They didn't take into account the interests of those whom they were supposed to be serving They took into account more so their own interests and the interests of those in these influential industries and I think that's why we saw so much vitriol against those in the pews and so much pressure towards those in the pews

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Who didn't go along with Fauci who have now been proved to be right for their mistrust and There wasn't pressure flowing in the other direction

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Even though these are the very institutions discriminating against the church It's an odd situation, right?

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I think many of us asked well, don't they have their that even even if it's self -interest Wouldn't they want to preserve their churches, right?

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Apparently not so This is that's one example that we've seen we've talked about but you can see this in other industries you can see this in Hollywood Production studios want to make films that don't appeal necessarily to a mass audience

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But they serve a woke agenda of some kind and so who are they impressing? That's not necessarily the rank -and -file who are gonna watch their movie.

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That's how you make money It's other elites who will see it and say good for you. You push the agenda

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So why does this disparity exist? It may if it's a free market if it's if the incentive is money if that's why humans operate is to gain more

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Buying power. They wouldn't behave in these ways. They wouldn't they wouldn't do things that don't seem to serve them necessarily at least in some situations financially and There's a lot of simplistic explanations for this state of affairs

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And one of them is that it really is money at the end of the day It's just we can't always see the dark money. We can't

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And I get and I actually think there probably is a lot of dark money going to different things That incentivizes the wrong things, but is that the silver bullet?

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Does that explain? the situation before us another commonly held belief is that in fact, it's a cabal of elites who are

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After power and It's I mean in 2020 there was a lot of this going on a lot more than I even realized

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With conspiracy conspiratorial thinking that was not That was kooky we'll put it that way there was there there were certain things that conspiracies that turned out to be

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Actual conspiracies backed by evidence hard evidence, but there were some just very tenuous

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Conspiracies that existed that really we're just trying to explain things that we're trying to give people coping mechanisms for the disorder they found themselves in and There the whole explanation was that well, it's it's maybe not a smoke -filled room

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But something like that where all these people get together and they make the decisions for the media and the church and for every institution

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That's another explanation. It's a simple explanation. We like simple explanations as humans, right? Well, I want to introduce something to you that I think is

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It's not comprehensive, but I think it's it's where I'm going in some ways

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Intellectually on this whole question and that is that there's a certain certain amount of inevitability to the situation that we see this disparity and Without these

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Take away dark money and that incentive take away This just a basic human, you know hunger for control and power well, if you take that away,

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I suppose it may the problem may alleviate itself, but What I'm trying to say is take away these simplistic explanations, and I think

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We're still gonna see a very similar state of affairs emerge in which the disparity Between those who produce goods and services and control them and regulate them and They determine the bounds of acceptability those people the elites and Those who consume and those who they are supposed to be serving so Here's my four part my four observations about this chasm so First pressure from the government media and corporations

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Threaten the strength of Christian organizations more than internal pressure from members And I'm of course tailored this for Christianity for evangelical institutions, and I think this is a hundred percent true

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There seems to be when you rise to a certain level Corruption seems to be more commonplace, and I think that's always been the case, but maybe it's more so now.

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I don't know Someone gets elected to Washington. They're a Tea Party candidate and how long does it take before they're part of the swamp?

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Usually not long We see it in politics. We see it in the church, though Someone's very promising coming out of seminary and they go back to their home church and pretty soon.

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They start trying to Introduce all these innovations that are frankly not that helpful and the church splits, and it's really bad

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These scenarios are not uncommon now, they're just not pollsters aren't aren't asking the questions they're not doing the studies on it, but These things are happening because I I see it all the time.

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I get the emails and stuff about this People who can't seem to figure out why

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The person they trusted for so long became someone else when they rose to a certain level of prominence or position and they don't want to They don't want to rock the boat because They there's something that they're they're aiming at.

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There's something that they're waiting for and if they do they'll be blacklisted and The mechanisms that exist right now for blacklisting are primarily

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Directed by media social media organizations the government's This is why social media mobs if they're facedown generally nothing happens but they're so powerful people are so afraid something's gonna happen there and And generally,

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I mean you're seeing this happen with Kanye West to some extent right now I mean, there's a tremendous amount of influence sometimes that these organizations or the not even organizations these

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In this case, it's social media, but there's a tremendous amount of influence that social media can sometimes exhibit over Corporations and these other institutions that these institutions really don't have you know, you wouldn't think they have to cave to this

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But they do because their interests are with those they're with social media and It's it's not

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I think the impression that people Social media texts probably want you to have that this all grassroots.

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It's all and I just I don't buy it I don't think it necessarily is when you have people that can

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Flip the switch and the algorithms change and they can Focus on what they want to focus on and I mean the media picks and chooses

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What protesters they want to give prominence to so they use these people sometimes as human shields for what they want done anyway but there's a tremendous amount of influence that these new technological technologically

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Equipped institutions have and So if you're a pastor and there's something controversial or a ministry leader man

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I mean, who are you gonna be afraid of more your congregation or And maybe they can get you fired from your job

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But then you go to the revolving door and you get a job somewhere else right with you haven't You haven't rocked the boat in your own class

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Russell Moore can leave the Southern Baptist Convention, but he's at Christianity today and he's making more money probably now than he did before Right, so it was to his benefit to anger the people that exist in his denomination

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Because he curried the favor of other elites. This revolving door is just it's just the way it is So that's the first thing pressure from the government media and corporations

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Threaten the strength of Christian organizations more than internal pressure from the members. They're more scared of them than of you

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Second the highly technical nature of operating large organizations leave most Members disinterested in their proceedings which lessen accountability and I think there's a few reasons for this one is shorter attention spans busier lives more competition for one's attention and So if you're in the

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Presbyterian Church in America, do you really want to watch the proceedings? Do you really want to try to figure out what all that legal jargon is that's going on in your denominate?

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no, you want to go fishing and I don't blame you but There's less accountability when the members don't know the jargon don't know what's going on in their denominations

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So That's another factor I think in all of this

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We're just less academic to as a people or less We're more ignorant and not just it's not even just that we're just there's just more

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Things that are competing for our time more places we would rather put our time than in keeping institutions we give to accountable third a

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Pension for specialized training favors those who pursue higher education over those who prove themselves capable through practical experience so this gets down to how pastors are trained how

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These factories that are set up to produce leaders in various institutions You have to pay a lot of money make a lot of sacrifice time sacrifice to even be qualified for Many of these roles and while you go through this training

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That's when generally you are the most susceptible to getting indoctrinated

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You learn a different language. You learn different habits. You are Just naturally this this happens.

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You tend to cozy up to those who are in this new hierarchy that you now respect that have authority in it and you want to be like them and So professors can have a tremendous amount of influence.

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It's not always a bad thing, but When you have 95 % of professors, let's say in the history profession that are basically

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Marxists. It does become a bad thing So it you know, Johnny who was gonna be a preacher goes to seminary comes back and Wow Johnny.

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You're not the same person So third a penchant

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Oh I already said that fourth career stability and longevity are more dependent on the favor of other elites than they are on the favor of an organization's and members in general and This is goes back to the revolving door that If if you are you you don't win the election what you can land a job in some business or some think -tank if you

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You get fired from your job as the CEO of a company you go to another company, right? so these are the kinds of things that you can

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Even when you fail, there's a stepping stone to a higher position when you just curry favor with those in in other industries, so You're looking at it's more

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Horizontally than you are vertically. So you're not looking within the people of your own organization who?

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You know, they are supposed to keep you keeping you accountable lower on the totem pole. You're looking you have your eye on influential people and This is why

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I try to steer clear more So now than I used to I used to when people would name -drop

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I kind of rolled my eyes. I'm like, whatever You know, it's kind of silly Well now I realize when people do a lot of name -dropping and like I know this person.

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I know that person Have these powerful connections They're signaling To you

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This happens a lot in academia, especially they're signaling how important they are and how powerful they are because They're they're as powerful as in their minds all these other connections.

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They have they can call in favors, right? They can They can land jobs if they need to they can you know

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You better respect them because it's about it's a pecking order It's what it is. And if you just emancipate yourself from the pecking order if you just say yeah,

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I don't care you know, I'm That's not the kind of thing I respect.

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I know what man respects I know what man what pleases man, but I'm not gonna judge things the way man judges things then it's not impressive anymore, and it doesn't work and anyway

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Lots more I could say there, but let's uh, just kind of wrap it up These realities all contribute to a situation that tends to reward and here's the conclusion the docile and diplomatic over brave independent thinkers the good news is that there are signs stronger institutions and leaders may be on the horizon and I will talk about this

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Lord willing in a future podcast. I do see the egg cracking and No longer is cultivating an image of I'm so powerful

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I'm so important the thing that actually gets the respect of people as much as taking risks

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Having skin in the game Showing yourself to be actually authentic and not some fake manufactured plastic person who?

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inhabits the upper echelons of an organization and is made that way and is manufactured that way actually

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People are now seeing through it more So especially since 2020 and they want authenticity they want real leadership, and I'm hoping this trend continues more and more

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There's examples of it out there Jordan Peterson. You could see what happened to him

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He just said you know what I may wreck my career here, but I'm not doing your pronoun thing

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We can see what happened even with the election of Donald Trump. It's the same thing He lost all contacts pretty much in the entertainment industry and yet he was still elected president

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You can see it with even some Christian leaders or leader leaders in Christian organizations and institutions

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I think there's a lot of positive Movement towards John MacArthur and towards even

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Doug Wilson to some extent right now because of this You know it's not there. This is the thing that I think some people don't understand.

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It's not their theology that is attracting people Some people told me asked me like what is it that people are attracted to Wilson for I said look

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Here's the thing I don't they're not looking at his theology. I think as much as they are His temperament and his he laughs at things he doesn't take himself too seriously at least that's how he presents himself he

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He seems to genuinely have a care and concern to some extent for those under his charge and He's willing to stand up to bullies to some extent now.

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I know there's people out there say he's a bully What you know there's with any of these guys you're gonna have

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All the pushback and whether it's right or wrong. I mean I can I'm trying to think right now You know there are people that Kind of there are even people who are jerks like quant like legitimately they are jerks

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But because they're willing to risk it they actually gain a following to some extent

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I'm trying to think of some exam. I there's some guys. I don't know if I want to name their names there's some guys like that in the conservative movement secular conservative movement who are like this where I'm just like that guy's a jerk and But he's willing to they're willing to buck the system, and I think right now we see bravery

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I mean you see Elon Musk Kanye West I guess to some extent, but not not as much but definitely

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Bill Maher even which is weird. He's not even conservative in the least bit we see oh

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Who else I? Don't know. There's there's just a number of People who really aren't even conservative, but they're becoming

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Joe Rogan's another one Because they have a certain level of bravery They're big their audience.

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That's why they have an audience. I think more than anything else so those are some of the cracks I see you and we'll maybe analyze that more in a future episode

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But what do you think you think I'm on to something here because if this is true that means it's kind of inevitable

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That the situation we're we're in right now That we have been in it has produced this state of affairs apart from any simplistic explanation that that a number of converging things came together and It's no longer a mystery in my mind or a surprise

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Sometimes I'm still shocked but most the time I'm not I'm like okay. Yeah Evangelical leaders are gonna mostly go along.

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They're gonna lag behind sometimes so they're gonna go along with kind of the trends and It's not even it's not even pragmatism that's not what it is

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It's a it's the Desire to be on the in group of the managerial elite to be one of them

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That's what it is more than anything else. So you pragmatism would be like well, it's whatever works to build your church

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Yeah, well that didn't exist in 2020 people were like so in some cases I know of cases like this where people are blowing up their churches.

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Their churches are closing over this and they're still willing To go along with Fauci that doesn't make any sense.

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That's not pragmatism so it's not I don't I reject the simplistic notions that it's just it's just pragmatism or it's just money or it's just Just about power or any yet that stuff

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I think all plays into some of this but there's something more to it and I'm I'm approaching

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I'm trying to Get at what that is. So I hope this was stimulating to you

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And I know the cows were they were sure enjoying this talk they got to hear me talk about what do you guys think