Get Ready: Two and a Half Hour Long Dividing Line

Well greetings welcome to the dividing line starting at an unusual time Didn't give y 'all a lot of warning. I apologize for that. But as I started to consider everything that we had to do today, I realized We're looking at two and a half hours here.

We really are and We'll just see how it goes in the last hour so from 6 Until 7 Eastern Daylight Time. Dr. Tony Costa will join us. I suppose that means I should fire up the phone program, too, huh? And He and I will be talking about a number of things but We're primarily going to be looking at Islamic apologetics and The Consistency or lack of consistency or the consistent inconsistency of Islamic apologetics.

He and I are both on the a an email list and there are a couple of specific Islamic apologists who frequent that list and Pretty well known to us here on this program Specifically Yusuf Ismail and Paul Belal Williams, and so we're gonna be taking a look at Especially Williams and the again the the fundamental issue of worldview consistency of worldview consistency in apologetic methodology simple honesty and integrity in dealing with the other side's materials and How you can't point to somebody else and say you need to be consistent using?

My materials and handling my materials if then you turn around and do the same thing to them. So we'll be looking at that and I have a feeling up until that time We're gonna be well Starting hopefully in a half an hour or so depending we're going to be looking at Andy Stanley's sermon the Bible told me so and The one that has as the the subtitle and I'm looking at it right here.

Do you find some of the Bible stories about God unsettling? Do you ever wonder how you can trust Jesus requires you believe everything in the Bible is true? This Christianity seemed like a fragile house of cards that may tumble down in the face of scientific or Archaeological discovery before you abandon your faith.

It's worth exploring this question. What if the Bible isn't the foundation of the Christian faith and I listened to this on Was it Tuesday evening it must have been because I was speaking last evening so it couldn't have been last evening and I live tweeted my Reactions and some people thought that was inappropriate.

I I can't do anything for some people I can't do anything right no matter what I do, but I I was just Absolutely blown away. I even I even asked one point. Did this gentleman go to seminary? Yeah, he did he went to Dallas Theological Seminary and in fact Norman Geisler was one of his primary teachers and very proud of Andy Stanley as a student.

Well Do forgive me. But it doesn't seem to me that he was listening real well in church history or you can take church history. Which is the case by the way in the vast majority of seminaries. You can take church history without ever having to read much in patristics specifically in the early church fathers and Some of the things that pastor Stanley are going to say that we're going to review.

I think possibly Dr. Costa might want to get in on some of that too. So well, we'll see if if we start off with a little bit of Andy Stanley before we get to Islamic apologetics because unfortunately, it's the the Muslims who are more than happy to use folks like Andy Stanley or Mike Laicona as weapons apologetically speaking against the Christian faith and.

So that'll sort of fit together. Before we get to all that however There's just so many things that have been piling up that I haven't been able to to get to. And Some of them are just gonna start getting so old.

Please do not interpret the fact that I have not for example been keeping up with some of the court decisions. Dr. Moller does a great job on the briefing. I sort of assume if you take the time to listen here you're probably listening to the the briefing as well and.

And Some of the court decisions are just absolutely chilling. This morning he was talking about the redefinition of parent. We we have this the the revolution is in full swing and the revolutionaries We just don't realize how far they're willing to go.

The totalitarians want our children and they are going to use every means available to them to get our children and You may you know, you know people have been saying well, ah, you know white. Come on.

You're just Come on. Come on. You're just trying to get people all scared. I What when it's happening? When it's happening right in front of us. You sort of got to open your eyes and go. Wow, the totalitarians are here and you gotta understand these be every all these people who are talking about inclusivism intolerance are the most Exclusivistic intolerant people on the planet and they will use every bit of force To demand that everyone else think exactly like they think.

They have no concept of Liberty except for themselves erotic Liberty is their God and Everything else must be subjected to that God. I Read a couple books Yesterday on a ride. They weren't long books obviously, but it wasn't a short ride either on the French Revolution and Once again, once again those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

We're going there again. So many parallels so, you know I've talked about the Stasi prison. Just so many parallels in history and yet the vast majority of even of Christians I know let alone Millennials Know nothing of history don't do not Have anything there at all?

The fact that I've not discussed those things does not mean that I don't see it. I believe they're very very vitally important, but there are people discussing these things that Are covering all the bases if we're willing to willing to listen and There's you know The other reason and and you know, I want to eventually maybe next week.

I want to talk about the gushy article and You know Moeller already wrote a response to him. I guess they know each other fairly well went to school together. Families their kids played together so on so forth.

It's interesting to get the background there but the David gushy article, of course, we've Spent a lot a lot of time responding to him. And of course, he doesn't want to take the time to respond to that our ilk.

I think it's because he knows he really can't engage our ilk very well and and his presuppositions aren't going to survive a cross-examination very well, but What he has to say important. I Listened to a talk at FAIR the LDS symposium from a few months ago or a few weeks ago.

That was just fascinating. I forgot to link you to it. I think you'd find it fascinating Absolutely fascinating to listen to Mormon intellectuals basically admitting that. You know, it's fascinating. Here's a guy he recognizes that historically.

Most of what the LDS Church has been arguing about and trying to defend for a long time. The critics were right all along and yet the one thing he wants to hold on to is their doctrine of God and It's like where'd that come from?

It came from this alleged priesthood authority and Joseph Smith as a prophet and now you're recognizing He wasn't all these things and yet you still want this wacky theology that absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

We'll have to I really would like to queue up at least a few portions of that. It was it was Fascinating stuff, so there's lots of stuff on the plate but first and foremost We we live in a day where News comes at us so fast in Almost every generation before ours Almost every generation before ours News would come to us after it happened we would find out about things and there'd be a buffer and Even the number of people that you would know would be limited.

It would be limited In a way that Social media and the internet has changed now, of course. How you know people and how deeply you know people has been changed as well, I mean I Know certain people have known certain people for years.

I've never met and That's a little odd. I mean we used to have Something called pen pals remember that back in the back of the day when you actually wrote letters with a pen and piece of paper And fold it up put an envelope you lick a thing called a stamp and All sorts of stuff like that and Things have changed things have changed and I I honestly think that in some ways we were never really designed to have the flood of Information that just washes over us every day.

I what when that happens you you cannot help but Decentralized de important eyes Because you can only pay attention to so much you can only absorb so much you can only prioritize so much and Over the past few months There's just been so much started with a Relative of mine on my wife's side only 30 years of age passes away.

I do the funeral Just a few weeks ago one of the former vice presidents this ministry Benny Diaz passed away and and You've got all this type of stuff going on and my mom used to say everything comes in threes.

Well, she was underestimating and Then there's just over the past couple of weeks You know, I've I don't mention this other than to invite the people of God to well I've reposted this on Facebook. So everybody knows about at least long there, but Dear friend of this ministry, dear friends this ministry John and Nicoletta Weibroo Nicoletta's expecting their second child and Really if you enjoy this program, there are few people, you know that that make it possible obviously rich makes it possible.

I'm here but I Most of you know, I Spend you know, I just mentioned just a few moments ago talked about a couple books. I read in the French Revolution How when did I do that on a 60 mile bike ride? All right.

How do I do that? Well, I have to stay healthy enough to be able to do that and The primary person that keeps me functioning on that level is Nicoletta Weibroo. She is just the best chiropractor around and I Would be so injured and in so much pain that I would have to be a stockholder in Advil.

And that's not a good stuff to be taking on a long long-term basis by any stretch the imagination I just wouldn't be able to do it. I just would not be able to do it. She keeps me going. Well a couple weeks ago Standard.

You know ultrasound showed irregularities. They do the big honking MRI. Real problems with little Luke and his development, especially with his brain and it's going to be very serious. And there's going to be all sorts of tremendous financial strains and It's one of those things where you just feel so helpless.

You you pray to God you you turn to God and in this situation. You have you know, they believe in in what the Bible teaches and and look I Know some of you are uncomfortable what the Bible teaches about this, but I'm not even gonna bother arguing it right now.

What the Bible says in this subject is not is not arguable and you just simply have to throw out a good deal of what it says to try to get around it, but they are trusting in God and yet you're you're looking at all this long-term care and and everything it goes along with it and and it's it's It's not possible to not say why God.

You're you're gonna ask those questions and it's it's gonna force you to Develop perspective and and to look outside yourself and and all these things but it's it's a heavy burden and it it just saddens your heart and Then you know, I'm thinking about this thinking about regularly and then yesterday sitting in my office yesterday afternoon and I look up right as the Or was the day before I lose track with was the day before.

It was that I guess it was right after the dividing line it was after the violence just guess it was Tuesday. So I look up on the Facebook feed and here is Nabil Qureshi's dr. Nabil Qureshi's announcement of Him stepping aside.

All I see at first is stepping out of ministry. For health reasons then I of course click on it and bring it up and most of you have read heard that Nabil has received a diagnosis of a very aggressive form of stomach cancer and Nabil's a medical doctor.

He has his medical degree and He himself says the prognosis is grim and I'm just like I How do you respond to something like this? I I need to start by saying how Nabil has responded has I think been very glorifying to the Lord.

Very encouraging to others. Yeah, I was even talking with Nicoletta about it today and and even she said in reading it She she said, you know, it's very encouraging to read how The you know someone is Responding to something like this and they're they're both medical issues medical tragedies, but but of a different There's a different Aura or you know development of a child learning disabilities physical disabilities and Then I don't know how old Nabil is I'm guessing about 35 maybe.

To me that's pretty young anymore. It's interesting how your views of what's young and what's not change. I Drove by a sign for some political candidate recently I was I was actually on the bike when I first saw it and I was looking over at this sign.

I'm just like That person doesn't even look old enough to vote. You know, I mean, oh my goodness That's when you really know that you're racing down the other side of the hill at a breakneck speed but It just you know, I talked about this a little bit last night I didn't record The study I did out of Psalm 42 and 43 last night.

It's at church, but you know the psalmist Expresses the despair of his soul. He he why is your soul cast down? Why are you in despair? Why are you disturbed? And I just kept noticing that every time the psalmist honestly admitted this it was right within the context of Making a statement of faith.

I said, you know, here's here's the nature of saving faith. I'm glad saving faith is not something you have to work up within yourself. It's the work of the Holy Spirit and and it's it's not that the people of God don't grieve.

It's that they don't grieve without hope. That's That's that's the difference if you're old enough to to love you're old enough to grieve and and Therefore if you love other people, then you you grieve at their loss or you grieve at their suffering.

But we don't grieve as those who have no hope. That's that's the difference and It's just you know, I'm finding myself saying Lord Lord Vacation please don't break and I know it doesn't work that way and and I know that there are brothers and sisters across the world That would look at at our difficulties and go you guys just don't don't know yet.

What real suffering is I get it I I do understand that I I do but Your prayers deeply appreciated for the Y bruise and Certainly, I hope Nabil knows that We all pray that God would deliver him that God would heal him and in the midst of I'm sure the rather aggressive treatments He's going to be going through.

I'm certain given his connections and stuff that he's probably Got some good people around him know what they're doing. But it's going to be tough no matter what That he will Truly find his comfort in God drawing near to him and that That beautiful truth that he has been seated in the heavenly places.

He's been adopted. His sins have been forgiven. I I can't help but Think of that tremendous text that I've preached a number of times in Hebrews chapter 6 where we have that that Anchor of the soul That goes within the veil where Christ has gone before us as our as our high priest.

I can't help but think especially in the in the suffering of That kind of situation that the picture of that that that anchor going where We can only go by faith But but is a place that demonstrates pure and utter acceptance in God's sight.

That that would be a Really encouraging thing to those who are to those who are suffering so I know there are many others that I don't know their stories and I just don't know that That most of us can handle.

Knowing all of the stories that are out there It does make you think a little bit about the fact that you know, God says I want you to cast your burdens upon me. What must it like to be God in that situation?

But we can as the body of Christ draw together and Pray for for these individuals and for all the others that you all know that I do not know that Have just as serious burdens. But you know and I when I think of Nabeel and I think of just how bright a young man he is and You know from my perspective That's the next generation.

And it reminds me that just I think it is appropriate from a Christian perspective that we recognize what scripture states that The outer man is decaying but the inner man is being renewed day by day and We can't stop that our decay.

We shouldn't hasten it but we can't stop it and We are dead men and dead women walking. And it has nothing to do with Rick Grimes and a TV series either I think from a biblical perspective. We need to recognize not only have we died in Christ and hence we are The walking dead in that sense in a positive sense.

But we we you know the body of this death. We live in a fallen world these bodies decay no matter how hard we try Young people. I know you think you're you're never gonna die. You never know you never you do not have a guarantee of tomorrow and It does one of the reasons that we're uncomfortable with these things is it reminds us of our own mortality it really does and so pray for Nabil and for his family and for the doctors and Pray for the doctors that are you be working with the Y bruise and little Luke and May God be glorified in in those situations and in so many others That weigh so heavily upon our upon our hearts so with that I want to Switch very quickly Switch gears.

This is really gonna burn the clutch out. I may not get all this in even before Tony gets on so we'll do the best we can we'll do the best we can. I rarely get to jump on something. The instant it comes out because we don't do the program every day.

And especially the stuff comes out over the weekend then, you know, normally it's Tuesday. Someone and I'm sorry, I didn't see who it was actually through a message request thing on on Facebook that for some reason I Don't even see on the web app on the browser, but I do see on my phone.

So I don't know So sorry if I can't give you a hat tip, but thank you to whoever it was that sent it but Just today an article was posted at a At textus receptus Bible blogspot .com. Now, they are going to be so happy That I'm doing this because when I checked it, they have two followers So Automatic Advertisement and maybe that's why they did this.

I don't know but again this is an Awesome teaching opportunity awesome teaching opportunity some of the best teaching opportunities I've ever seen Have come when someone thought they were refuting me and When I can get an opportunity to go well, this is why you didn't refute me it can sometimes Give the greatest light.

I have to be brief because the Andy Stanley things nearly half an hour long. And I'm not and he was talking fast. So And offering correction, it's gonna be it's gonna be ugly. But An article was posted called Beza vindicated.

I think this is by an Australian writer by the name of Nick Sayers I'm assuming this anyways Nick Sayers director of textus receptus. I am currently living in Pakistan working on an Urdu Bible translation from the textus receptus.

And that's just what they need. Is an Urdu Bible translation based upon? A Text that Contains errors in it. That's just exactly what they needed. That's that's great and This article is Beza vindicated quotes me Concerning Revelation 16 5 now I did in in the current edition the King James only conference.

I spent quite some time on Revelation 16 5 and I I did so because I needed to introduce folks to the concept of conjectural emendation and the fact that by Theodore Beza's own confession He introduced a textual Conjecture at Revelation 16 5 he did not have access to any Greek manuscripts that read the way that he ended up putting his text in.

The printed edition of his text is 1598 text and I provided pictures. There's that's actually some most of the pictures appear here. And I even I even knew that there are people that were gonna try to get around this even when I did this.

Because I said on page 240 as one can see the King James Version reading Revelation 16 5 arose from Theodore Beza's Conjectural emendation and was unknown to history prior to that time that I gave a footnote Lest in desperation to King James only advocate make the attempt tish endorse notes on the term only confirm my assertion.

He notes that and then it's COP AETH two different phrases omit Hacias, but the KJV reading is not to be found even here as Esamonos and this is Hacias. Hacias is the Holy One. Esamonos is the future form Of the particle of the verb of being so will be is not put in its place instead tish endorse notes Indicate Beza as the reading source.

Further Trigellus's text though indicating some translations omit ha Hacias Again indicates the KJV reading is nowhere in the Greek manuscript tradition. Likewise Hoskia's massive work on the text the apocalypse nowhere indicates the appearance of Beza's conjecture quite simply before Beza.

No Christian had ever read the text the way the KJV has it today. And I was obviously in light of the pictures and what I was talking about here talking about the Greek Text not English translations or things like that the Greek text well.

Various folks since then have done their best to try to come up With some way around this this reality, and I remember someone saying well You know there there could have been manuscripts that we don't have anymore and and someone said well You know there's a commentary that meant mentions a Latin manuscript that has Passed away and so on so forth them.

And I try to point out to these folks don't you realize you're proving my point for me? On the one hand you'll use Byzantine priority argumentation, or you'll use majority text argumentation and Yet, then you'll turn around and to substantiate any place where the TR Departs from either the Byzantine text or what would be called the majority text depending on which text we're talking about.

Well, you're talking about Robinson Pierpont Hodges far as dead etc etc. Then all of a sudden all those arguments go out the window and for this one verse all of a sudden a Vague reference to a Latin manuscript someplace is enough to be the one place where the original was maintained.

I have more respect for people who just simply say you know what God re-inspired the Greek. He took over Erasmus. Well actually in this case. He took over Beza. He took over Erasmus and did a little bit, then he took over Stephanos did a little bit, then finally takes over Beza and and then basically Providentially guides supernaturally The selection of readings by the King James translators between 1604 and 1611.

At least those folks are consistent. Because they're not trying to pretend that there's actually a textual basis for this argumentation. They are Saying you know what this is my text. God said it God did it.

I'm not gonna bother with the manuscripts and all the rest that stuff it's all supernatural and Yes, I know that puts me on the same level as Joseph Smith's inspired translation or other things like that.

But that's what I'm gonna say at least I can go there you go. I appreciate that you're not pretending to do something you're not doing. The problem is. Now there's even a bunch of Calvinists, and you know who you are.

Who want to pretend? That they are being confessional. In Defending every reading of the Texas Receptives. Including Beza's conjectural inundation, but this is what it means to be confessional you see.

Well by the way I would I would like to invite you guys especially to read a little book here by Jan Kranz. Beyond what is written Erasmus and Beza as conjectural critics of the New Testament. Very interesting to look at how many places Erasmus and Beza together engaged in conjectural inundation In the production of the text that ended up producing the Texas Receptives.

Interesting stuff there lots of interesting Material there. Well, what do we have in this new article that just just came out today in fact? I mean, I've talked about being given Instant advertisement, we should almost send a bill for this we really look at Twitter.

Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, okay, whatever. It well, mr. James White it looks like Theodore Beza wasn't the first to have and Shalt be a Samanos at Revelation 16 5 and then there's a graphic Revelation 16 5 in the 1549 Ethiopic Gees Bible now remember I was talking about the Greek, so we have an Ethiopic Bible.

And Then you have Brian Walton an English priest divine and scholar with a polyglot in Revelation 16 5 his 1549 Ethiopian known today as Amharic and formerly as Ge 'ez version Has a Latin translation with the words at Aris.

You will be so the you've got the so basically what is being said is Here here's here's the The specifics the Ethiopic version is cited by Herman Hoskier in Latin, so the Ethiopic version one Ethiopic version as Cited in Latin, uh-huh.

Couple of simple questions. Did Beza have this information? Answer. No. So was Beza engaging in a conjectural emendation? Yes. Are You actually arguing for the supremacy of the Ethiopic? Over the Greek for the New Testament.

Do you realize? What this would mean to the rest of the New Testament if you were to make the Ethiopic are you actually arguing That the original was lost, but only maintained in the Ethiopic see I've I've mentioned a number of times in Dealing with Roman Catholic apologists on the subject of solo scriptura versus sola ecclesia that the more the Roman Catholic struggles to get away from the reality of Sola ecclesia the more they're entrapped within it the more desperate they become.

Well in this situation those Who attempt to defend the Texas Receptus while pretending that they're doing textual criticism end up demonstrating their own Unbelievable desperation Abject desperation and Here is a great example of it.

Think about the argumentation that the TR folks use for Revelation 16 5 and then the Kama Johan you and Then The pericope adultery. So in other words Revelation 16 5 what we're looking at right now, whether it's the Holy One or and shall be The first John 5 7 the Kama Johan you and then the pericope adultery the woman taken adultery.

Think about the form of Argumentation that is presented on each one of these Texts to defend them and what you'll recognize what you are forced to recognize is that they are abjectly Contradictory to one another that they are ad hoc.

There is no consistency. You could never have created a Textual critical methodology That then applied to the manuscripts would come up with the textus receptus you couldn't do it. The TR developed over time.

It was an accident of history. You have to look at what Erasmus had available to him what Stephanos had available to him. What Béza had available to them the differences and understandings of textual criticism?

The Rise of Islam the fall of Constantinople, there's just all sorts of things that that led into the creation of the textus receptus. The point is there is no consistent textual critical methodology That would ever lead you to the exact wording of the textus receptus, and here's the example of it.

Nowhere else are they gonna run off to the Ethiopic and When the Ethiopic lines up with the Alexandrian as it often does they'll reject it because there's no consistency. They're not trying to do textual criticism.

They have one goal and one goal only we must Defend the TR and it's not even the TR that they're defending. It's it's the the strain that resulted in The 1633 compilation well actually the Hasker compilation.

So it's it's it's even just a Part of that as it is. I mean if you they're not defending Erasmus at the point they're not defending Stephanos at this point only that element that ends up in what they call the TR and so Béza vindicated by an Ethiopic that he did not even make reference to himself.

I gave his own Latin terminology in the book Passed over in silence. No reason to deal with that. Because that contextualizes thing. It's a serious history. We're not doing serious history here. We're just we're just throwing stuff out because We're desperate to defend this position and we will use whatever Sources we can get it doesn't matter if if what we use for this verse is completely different.

What we use for this verse which is completely different what we use over this verse over here, and then we have to have three four 500 contradictory methodologies doesn't matter because our ultimate goal is Simply the defense of this traditional text and we will do whatever it takes to do it.

There you go. Amazing y 'all keep you know I Really wish you were investing your time and you know doing something that would be useful to the church. And it advanced the truth but if you just could keep digging for stuff like this you know you Keep handing it to me and I'll keep explaining to folks.

See what I mean. This is this is why you need to look at what these folks are saying and stay away from it because wow. In Consistency sign of that failed argument big big big big big time came out just today there you go there you go all right.

Let's get to it. I Would I can't speed this up because I couldn't download the file we got to play it off of the web. But I couldn't speed it up anyways because Andy Stanley speaks faster than I do. Which is why I'm never gonna get to all this because they only have 50 minutes basically.

But here is the Bible told me so August 27th 2016 I'm gonna have to be very brief in my comments to get all this done. Which is gonna be very hard for me to do, but let's dive into it anyway. Shall we here we go.

Check with the series because we're picking up where we left off last week and so previously on who needs God. What we said throughout this series is that there are a whole lot of people in fact you may fall into this category.

And I'm just thrilled that you're either here or watching if you do a lot of people that feel a little bit stuck in the Middle and here's why because there are things about God and there are things about theism and there are things about Christianity in particular.

That are unsettling that leave us with a lot of an answer unanswered questions at the same time. Living in a world where you feel like it's a creator less universe that there there is no God or at least there's no personal God that's a little bit unsettling.

So on one hand there's doubt and on the other hand not for everybody, but for a growing number of people in our population. There's a sense of despair and so again people are beginning to feel and perhaps you feel stuck in the middle.

I mean atheism isn't all that appealing as you really think through the implications of atheism at the same time Christianity or religion may have lost its appeal. Especially if you were raised in a religious community or raised going to church.

And the reason I say that is as I mentioned the last couple of weeks when I listen to stories of Deconversion or specifically stories of Christian deconversion you begin to hear the same themes over and over and over and I know we all think We're unique.

But we're not the things that the things that we have in common are more plentiful than the things that did that. Cause us to be different. So consequently when a person tells their story if I grew up in church.

And I used to believe and then I met somebody I grew up in church. Used to believe but I started asking questions. And I got you know sort of faith-based answers to my adult. You know fact-based questions when you hear those stories when I hear those stories.

There's there's a tension. There's a tension of on one hand. I really appreciate my upbringing. I really appreciate some of my experiences as a kid going to church. I mean there's even something in me that we know when I'm married someday I I think even though I'm not sure I believe it I would like my kids to have the same experience that I had so there's there's a tension at the same time there are questions.

That never got answered in Sunday school. There are questions that never got answered in church. In fact you may have been brought up in a church where you were not allowed to ask Certain questions and then when you begin to ask certain questions people looked at you like we just don't ask those questions.

You're just supposed to have faith so consequently now.

Let me just let me just mention. I fully understand what his intention here is Mike my fundamental concern is going to be that the theology that he has embraced And has always embraced non lordship salvation.

You know Arminian synergism so on so forth doesn't have a sufficient basis To be able to provide the strongest answers and again. This is to go back to apologetic methodology centrality the Word of God authority the Word of God, but You've heard me say over and over again if we're not talking about these things in the church now.

We send our children off to university. They're gonna get their their theological heads hand to them on a platter and. But How we answer these questions is going to be fundamentally different, and I just don't believe well first of all I'm gonna say right now so much of what I understand is gonna say about church history.

Especially is just so far off the mark I Mean anyone who has listened just to the first 13 lessons in the church history series. I'm doing right now PRBC Would be able to go well wait a minute I Two weeks ago, I heard white reading Ignatius or Clement saying something completely different.

What are you talking about here? That's gonna be one of the problems, but then the theological issues are gonna come up as well. So yeah Unfortunately what you win them with is what you win them to if you preach a man-centered gospel.

Don't be overly surprised. If that falls apart of course in a reformed church I fully understand that there are people sitting out there that are not truly converted and. They're looking for a reason to disbelieve and they especially if they're young people they go off to university the hormones hit and it's Easy to start looking for reasons to disbelieve get it understand.

Yeah, you bet from the church are stepping away from Christianity again. Not embracing atheism, but kind of in that that middle where we live with live with that tension. There are generally as I said last week.

There are two threads are two themes and almost all of those Stories the last one we said the first one we talked about last week is somebody told me so God so last week We looked at a list of the gods that we grow up believing in that don't exist.

And I even said hey if you quit believing in these gods or one of these gods good for you. Because you're right that God does not Exist, but we concluded last week by saying that if you lost or you're losing your faith in God.

It could be that you've lost or you're losing your faith in a God that never Existed. That was last week today. I want to move ahead and talk about this about the Bible told me so Jesus a Bible told me so Jesus the Bible told me so Jesus again is one of the threads that we hear in Deconversion stories all the time and I have a feeling that for many many many of you who are losing faith or who have lost Faith especially in the Christian faith.

This is a bit of a part of your story now today is going to be complicated. Okay, so I need you to think and I need you to track if you listen casually. You will misunderstand me as hard as I've worked to make this as clear as possible.