Job 11

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00:00
We left off last week.
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And just to bring everybody back up to where we were, we're now dealing with Zophaz, who is the third of the speakers, the supposed friends of Job.
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And I think what I'd like to do is read from verse 7.
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We kind of dealt with the first six verses through the end of the chapter, and then go from there.
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So this is the continuation of Zophaz's speech.
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And so he says to Job, can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than heaven.
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What can you do? And they're deeper than Sheol, and what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea.
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If he passes by in prisons and gathers to judgment, then who can hinder him? For he knows deceitful men, he sees wickedness also.
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Will he not then consider it? For an empty-headed man will be wise when a wild donkey's coat is born a man.
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If you would prepare your heart and stretch out your hands towards him, if iniquity were in your hand and you put it far away and would not let wickedness dwell in your tents, then surely you could lift up your face without spot.
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Yes, you could be steadfast and not fear, because you would forget your misery and remember it as waters that have passed away.
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And your life would be brighter than noonday, and though you were dark, you would be like the morning.
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And you would be secure, because there is hope.
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Yes, you would dig about you and take your rest in safety.
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You would also lie down, and no one would make you afraid, and many would court your favor.
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But the eyes of the wicked will fail.
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They shall not escape in their hope loss of life.
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And so, like I said, we looked at some of the verses last week, and I just want to kind of pick it up.
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And I guess I want to start it this way in a sense that I want to say to Zophar, wow, I really do.
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If you think about, just set it in your mind again, the condition of Job.
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His body is broken.
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His life is, in many ways, just shattered.
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He's beside himself emotionally.
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He's not spiritually flying too high.
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And Zophar, as a friend, he just comes in and, to me, he just blasts with boat barrels.
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He just comes into Job's having heard all the things.
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And I want to say, where's the love, Zophar? And I realize that we're talking about it in a different setting, but I want to ask you a question and see what you think about it.
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Where's the compassion here? Where's the thought of seeing someone in such a bad condition and then, rather than come in and try to apply some, if you will, some healing to the situation? I mean, unless I'm just reading this totally wrong, I mean, Zophar doesn't seem like he has too much bomb in his hand.
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It seems like he's thrown a bomb, if you will.
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And I thought about that, and I'm trying to process that in my own mind, in the setting of him.
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And I know we talked about this, but he just unloads on Job.
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And I wonder how we are.
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I mean, I wonder if we can learn something from this about really trying to see people in the situation they're in and dealing with people in the situation they're in.
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Not the situation we think they should be in, but the actual situation in that you and I, and again, we could look through, especially in the New Testament of the one another's.
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But was that not in the Old Testament also? I mean, is this whole idea of the one another's, of having compassion on one another, and forgiving one another, and understanding one another, and being mourned with those that mourn and rejoice with them, is that just New Testament truth? Was it there in the Old Testament? I'm glad everybody agrees.
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But it was, wasn't it? Right? You would have loved your neighbors, or you would hate your enemies, but there still was, even in the law, there was this equity that was to be distributed, right? Certainly, the Jews weren't supposed to charge interest to others when they lent money.
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And there were some other principles that God instituted, but I just don't see this in Zophar.
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I don't see him being, having much thought about Job's welfare, rather than, I think Zophar's mad.
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And here's why I say this.
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I think he's mad because Job has not confessed yet.
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He's not said, you guys are right.
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I'm just a dirty, wicked, old sinner, and you're right, and I'm getting what I, he's not.
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I think that Zophar has been sitting there listening and watching, and he can't get, I mean, Eliphaz couldn't get him to say, you're right, I'm wrong.
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And then Bildad tried, and what happened? Job maintained his integrity.
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And so Zophar comes in, and he just unloads on him.
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And remember what he said to him, even in the beginning, he talks about him, and he says, a man, he's a man full of talk, and you're empty talk, and he actually makes an accusation about Job that Job never made.
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He says, you say your doctrine is pure, and then he says, but O that God would, basically, O that God would judge you.
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And again, I don't know about you, but with friends like this, I don't need too many enemies.
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Right? And you and I need to think about that.
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Even in that sense, and I know we've talked about it, my brother Keith had brought it up not too long ago in his message, about how we use words, about how we treat one another in a way, in every situation, rather than just blasting away, because it's, and again, is it easier to do that, or to be understanding, compassionate, and be an aid? Is it better to be an aid? Is it easier to be an aid, or is it easier to be a destroyer? It's easier to be a destroyer.
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Okay.
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Anybody think the other way? It's always easier to tear down.
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Listen, it was easy to knock that wall down.
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Has a lot of issues with fixing it up, but it was definitely easier to knock that thing down.
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And so, when you think about that, what is Zophar really after here? Does he just wanna be, does he just wanna come away with a feeling of, Jobar, we got you, and you're getting what you deserve, or is he someone who is trying to help? I just don't see it at this point.
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And so that's why he says in verse seven, and he goes back, and here's the thing that continually is going in my mind.
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The three friends really understand a lot, don't they? They understand a lot about God.
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They're not ignorant, so that's why he says, can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limits of the Almighty? And they're higher than the heaven, and what can you do? And deeper than Sheol, and what could you know? And their measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
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Is he right? Absolutely, he's right.
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But again, is it always a matter of right? Is it always a matter, should we always speak the truth? Come on.
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Okay, I know some of you guys didn't get coffee because it was cold, but come on.
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Should we always speak the truth? Absolutely.
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Is there a distinction between always speaking the truth and always seeking to present the truth in a way that actually renders grace? Yes.
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There's a big distinction between those two, right? And I would say that if we all looked at our lives, at times we're guilty of knowing the truth and then using the truth sometimes in not so good a way.
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Again, go ahead.
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Brother Mike Collier was preaching a couple weeks ago, and something he said really stuck out for me because it convicted me.
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Yeah.
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You don't have to have a chainsaw to cut a blade of grass.
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You know what I'm saying? You don't always have to go in for the worst scenario to get your point across.
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I heard that, going for the kill, right? Oh, I mean, really.
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I mean, sometimes we do.
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Sometimes I have been guilty of doing that.
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What? And it's true though, right? We all do that.
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We're all fellow Christians, you know? Yeah, I agree.
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But I wonder if Zophar really thinks that Job is on the same grounds as he is.
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I think that the three friends are rather arrogant.
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That's just me.
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They're rather, they think that they're exempt from, I mean, they're easy, they're good at throwing rocks, but I don't think they really consider their own estate.
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Yeah, there.
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Do you think that Zophar believes he's dealing with a delusional person? Do I think that he thinks he's dealing with a delusional person? No, I don't think he thinks he's a delusional person.
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I think he thinks that Job is a secret sinner that's been found out.
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Why would you say that, though? I'm just interested.
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Because personal experience, as well as learned experience in dealing with other people, is that when they, the first inclination for all of us going all the way back to the garden is to deny.
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Okay.
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And from there, that denial leads us to a level of delusion that we didn't have before we made the denial.
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And the state of delusion is simply not, it's suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
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So if their arguments can be valid, if they think, and this is another iteration of why they're being used, but if they believe that they are right and Job is justifying himself by holding on to integrity that God gave him, then surely they think they're dealing with somebody who's walking in delusion.
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Somebody who's not walking in the truth.
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Wow.
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I gotta think through that one for a couple of seconds.
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What do y'all think of what David just said? Okay.
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Anybody else? Should we look at it that way? Well, let me ask you a question.
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Is not everybody, apart from Christ, delusional? Absolutely.
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Is not everybody who's in Christ at times delusional? And if you think about it, how do you gauge? So listen, how do you gauge delusion? Is it what's not in you and it's not according to your thoughts? Yep.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, so when you think about it, he's looking at Job, and that's why I brought that up.
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He's looking at Job.
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I mean, Job's a basket case in many ways, and here comes Zophar, and even though he understands many things, is his application appropriate? Is that the situation for that? And so certainly, again, there's so many proverbs that talk about a word fitly spoken and the riches of using right words and knowing, and we've talked about this, right, really, wisdom, because that's really what provokes that in many ways, not just knowing the truth, it's knowing how to apply truth, which is really what a definition of wisdom is.
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It's applied knowledge.
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Barry? Well, it sounds good for some.
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It's so nice to do today.
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I know.
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Yeah.
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All right, it's time now.
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Yeah, and I think he's hot.
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I think Zophar is really upset because I think he's heard these conversations, right, and the results didn't come that I think Zophar thought should've come.
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I think that they all think Job should just fall down and say, you're right, I'm wrong, I gotta repent, and yet Job maintains his integrity, and so there's friction going on here, and again, do y'all have a conversation with somebody and you try to make a point and they don't get your point? And then what do we usually do? We make our point again, right? Yeah.
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And then we, yeah, and then we try a different way to present the same point, because our only goal is to get them to agree that our point is the right point and that they need to come to us rather than us go to them.
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But anyway, as we go through this, you would, I'm impressed by Job's, not necessarily the way he bemoans himself, but that he retains his integrity, and he really does.
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This is a man who's got some deep roots, and you know, that's the thing, right? You think about it, that's the difference between somebody whose house is built on the rock and somebody's house is built on the sand, right? And when adversity comes and trials come and tribulations come, remember what Jesus said? The house built on the sand, what? It's gone, it washes away.
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It's the house on the rock, and so, maybe Zophar had good intents, but anyway, I don't think he continues on.
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And then, so in verse 10, he says, and he's still talking about God, and if he passes by and imprisons and gathers to judgment, who can hinder him, for he knows the deceitful men.
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He believes in God's omniscience.
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He believes in God being omnipresent.
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God knows.
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He sees wickedness.
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Will he not consider it? Verse 12 is an interesting verse, and I kind of had a little bit of a struggle trying to figure out what he was saying, and so I looked around at some other brothers who have commented on this, and he says, for an empty-headed man will be wise when a wild donkey's colt is born of a man.
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I think basically he says to Job, you're as dumb as a jackass.
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I think that's the best way that I've been able to understand it.
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He's saying the words that Job is speaking and the defense that Job is taking is no better than a wild ox.
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You're dumb as a rock, Job.
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You just don't get it, and that's why he says in verse 13, if you would prepare your heart, basically, and if, he doesn't say if, but and stretch out your hands towards him.
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If iniquity were in your hand and you put it far away, and wouldn't that not let wickedness dwell in your tents? So what is he doing here? Saying, Job, the only reason why you're in this situation is because you are being judged by God.
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Is that true? Was Job in this situation? Was he being judged by God? Tested, not judged.
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Tested, not judged, okay.
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We've talked about this many times.
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Is there a difference between testing and judgment? Can the child of God ever be judged by God? One, no.
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Any yeses? Yes, any huh? What's the distinction then? I'm gonna get you guys to talk one way or the other.
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What's the difference between being judged and being, oh, let me take it back.
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What's the distinction to be made when you say God does not judge and God has judged and does judge? All right, so one person said no, one person said yes.
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I mean, well, I've been in the middle of a new test where we clearly see that Christians, we, you know, our faith has always been tested just from the world that we live in, and God used those things not to destroy us but to believe, but to strengthen us.
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I would say, just like how Christians are born again.
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Good.
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So then the difference would be the context of it being in the person on the business end of this being a child of God.
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So as a child of God, whatever rendering happens as a result of my actions, leads to chastisement versus condemnation.
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Judgment, if judgment, you're either gonna be acquitted or you're gonna be condemned.
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That's why I did this.
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Now, I just wanna work through this a little bit for us.
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And again, yeah, the past tense.
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Is there a difference between those two? Besides one ends in a D and one ends in a T? Depends if you're talking about A judgment.
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Okay, or A judgment.
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How would you break this down further? I mean, what could we put? What could we put in? If I did this, if I said this is condemnation, would that fit in on this side? As a result of, yes.
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I'm just, okay.
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Is there anything else we can put under here? Acquitting.
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Okay.
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I'm trying to think, what else would you include? If we say that God passes judgment, and we know, right, he does.
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Scripture's clear about that, right? What else comes under here? Is this a result of, is that a result of that? Yeah, that's a continuation of the condemnation part.
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Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.
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Trying to get us to break down some different thoughts on it.
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What else would, can you think of anything else that would fall on this side? And what if I say to you that this is, this side is where God deals with unbelievers? Yes.
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And then I said to you, or suggested to you, that this side is what God does with believers? Yes.
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Would that be a right way to divide? Would that give us a little more clearance in our understanding? Would it then be right to say that this side is discipline, this side is chastisement, this side is, if you will, correction? Yeah, correction, or how about if we just, yeah, whatever, you know how to spell it, I don't.
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But is that a fair way to divide this thought of, because I agree, the child of God is what? He cannot commit to judgment.
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Why? Because judgment's been passed.
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It's been taken care of.
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God doesn't acquit the guilty, but Christ has paid the judgment that we rightfully deserve.
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So can the believer ever come under judgment? Well, I guess it depends on how you use the word, right? You have to have some understanding of the word.
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And you brought it up about being careful about how we use words, right? And we've gotta make sure.
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But certainly there's a different, there's a different motive, isn't there? I think there's a different motive.
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That side is all, Okay.
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Whereas that side, condemnation, that's, I think it's like hatred, anger type thing.
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So this side is what God is working on for us.
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So again, with this side, would you be comfortable saying that this is where believers are and this is where unbelievers are? Yes.
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Anybody disagree with that? And I'm, go ahead.
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Unless you're gonna disagree, then we don't have enough time for you.
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I'm not going to the center.
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God is going to be the center as well.
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And so we're using past and present.
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I just think, I'm trying to figure out.
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I'm just trying to, I'm trying to get us to think, here's what I'm trying to do.
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And I'm not saying I'm doing a good job of it.
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But what I'm trying to do is to get us to think about how God deals with us before we are his in Christ and after we are his in Christ.
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And I'm gonna tell you what I believe, what Jesus said, that we could no longer come into condemnation.
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And when I think about judgment, and again, this is almost an issue of semantics.
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Depends how you view things and see things.
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But I don't believe that, I know for a truth, the believer can never come into condemnation again.
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He can never fall because it's gone.
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It's been cast into the depths of the sea as far as the east is from the west.
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But that certainly should not be taken to understand that we're not judged by God because we all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
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But again, it's the sheep go thing, right? It's the left hand, the right hand, isn't it? Yeah, but I think, well.
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Okay, brother.
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I think it would just be better to say that a Christian cannot be condemned.
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I mean, because I can put the sinner under judge and I can put the sinner under judgment.
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Okay.
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The point is we have two different words, judgment and condemnation.
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Sinner can never be, I mean, a Christian can never be ultimately condemned.
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Period.
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We know that God judged, he judged Job righteous in the beginning.
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That was God's judgment of Job.
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He made it, he judged Job as righteous.
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So we can see that Job is judged.
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And so I was just trying to see like, why are we even? Because of trying, and I understand your point, brother, and I agree with you.
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That we can try to split so many different things down to such a finite degree that we can get ourselves in trouble.
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And I agree with that.
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But I do think there is a distinction to be made.
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And I do think a lot of people don't understand the distinction between coming under the judgment of God and being judged by God.
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So that's my point.
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My point is people think, if you talk to general conversation, most people think that they will never really come under the judgment of God, right? And many people have this attitude, it'll all work out at the end, right? When I get to St.
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Peter's Gate, they're all bologna.
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But I do think there is a distinction to be made, and we'll just leave it at that.
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Because again, I agree with you, Tim.
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We can try to get so far down in the weeds that we actually hurt ourselves.
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So, go ahead, sister.
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Can I say one last thing about? No, but go ahead.
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Okay.
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I think it all boils down to how you view the sovereignty of God.
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Because if God knew us before the foundation of the world, ultimately we're not under wrath, we're not under judgment.
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And everything he's doing on this side, no matter how severe it seems, is for us and occasion for to discipline us.
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Yeah.
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And so it's how you view God's sovereignty.
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And we don't know, we're Christians, but people don't.
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Let me, well, I could open up a can of worms right now.
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So, all right.
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So, in God's sovereignty, knew us before the foundation of the world, were we not chosen of wrath even as others? What does that mean when Paul says that? Is Paul just making a general statement? Or were we the children of wrath before God opened our eyes? That was our position.
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That was our reality.
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Well.
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No, no, I understand what you're saying.
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But wasn't that our reality? Yes.
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It was a reality.
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Absolutely.
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It was a reality in our life that we were under the judgment, the condemnation, and under the wrath of God.
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Just like Jesus said in John three, where he talks about he that does not have Christ.
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Where does it say? It says the wrath of God is abiding on him.
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So, there's a reality of that, right? So, even in that, as you talk about that, and sure, you go along with that, it says God has loved us with an everlasting love.
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So, again, I do think there is some good to try to understand terms that we use, and yet, I agree that we gotta be careful because we can kind of cloud the picture instead of making the picture clearer, too, at the same time.
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So, what do we do with the judgment of Christ? I don't know.
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You brought it up.
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What do we do? Well, we're gonna be judged.
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Okay.
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What do we do with judged? All right, let's talk about it.
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We only got a couple minutes left.
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And if you don't think that we should talk about this, it's Tim's fault, because he's the one that brought it up.
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I said.
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Yes, you did.
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Yeah.
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That's my story of Stinky Tim.
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All right.
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We shall all fear for the judgment seat of Christ.
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For what? For what we have done.
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I'll just put it just the way you said it.
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What we've done.
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What we did.
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Why? Why? Why is that true? Somebody.
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We're in heaven.
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What do we need that for? Okay, but let's, okay.
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All right, let's think about it.
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Why? We're there.
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We're with him.
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We've conquered.
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We've overcome.
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We're on the other side of the Jordan.
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We crossed the veil.
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You have to appear before the judge to receive your acquittal.
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Okay.
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But how about this? How about, and again, how about, I made this word like 42 letters.
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You said it right.
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You got it.
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You even won a spelling bee on that one.
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Is that one of the reasons why we shall be judged by God? God is going to be vindicated and that we will confess that everything that God has done is absolutely perfect, absolutely right.
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He's just.
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He's shall not the judge of all the earth do right.
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But this also, I believe, this is what I understand, and if I'm wrong, I need to be corrected, that this is going to be done by God to sanctify us further.
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Because heaven, I mean, since we, and this, for me, it's like, okay.
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Ultimately, if we're going down this path, I could, I can get on the train, but I would change the word.
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Because ultimately, when we get there, it's glorification.
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Sanctification takes place on this side and then glorification.
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So I'm just saying, because that's what I'm saying.
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But does not glorification include eternal sanctification? It does.
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Yes, it does.
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Okay.
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All I'm saying is that this, why we did this is not only for the glory of God, but I think this is for this also.
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Unless you want to say that we're not going to grow in eternity.
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Unless you, unless we want to say that.
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I'm just trying to be clear with the scripture.
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And I'm trying to help you to be clear, brother.
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Okay, but I think when we start going, especially when we come, for me, I just think when we're studying the text, because we can split hairs and lose the text because then we can go off and.
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And I will admit, brother, I have a tendency to go off.
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I do.
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I have a tendency to, and I'm not saying it's right, but I do.
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And when I see things, especially in the Old Testament, I try to understand it.
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Hey, Gary, he's a, if you're going out there.
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I try to understand it on how I can make it applicable, not only in its historical contents, but applicable to me.
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And so I apologize for doing that.
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I agree with that.
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I wasn't talking about you, and we can learn.
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Oh, okay.
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I got you.
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I got you.
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Yeah.
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And that's why I never get through the chapters, by the way.
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All right, so let's try to get through the rest of this so we can do it.
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So as he's talking about it, and he says in verse 12, and so we'll come back to what he says in verse 13 and 14, where he says, if you would prepare your heart, stretch out your hands, and if a nickel used your hand, and you would put it far away, wouldn't that not let wickedness dwell in your tents? He then says, so it's basically in 13 and 14, he's saying, if you do this, then God will do that.
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And that's what he picks up on in verse 15.
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He says, then surely you could lift up your face without spot, you could be steadfast and not fear, because you would forget your misery.
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What is he saying in that? He's saying that Job's situation is Job's fault, and that if only Job would follow their instructions and repent, that God would come and that God would wipe away his misery, because that's the way they see Job's situation.
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They do not see Job as a, if you will, as one like them.
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They're making a big distinction between themselves and Job.
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They're saying, Job, it's your fault, and you need to repent.
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And then he says at the end of verse 16, you would forget your misery, and you will remember it as waters that have passed away.
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This is a pretty strong accusation, isn't it? Yes.
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Basically, it goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning, that they really have a sow and reap mentality, that they really think that Job as, remember when he said, you're getting less than what you deserve? And we talked about that.
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They still have this idea that, in a sense, they're clean, and Job is unclean, because they're not realizing the reality.
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The words that they speak are so true, but they're not really make, in my understanding, they're not really making an application to themselves.
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They're really good at making an application to Job, right? And they're really good at judging by what they see, and so he says this, and he says, your life, in verse 17, your life would be brighter than noonday, and though you were dark, you would be like morning, and you would be secure, because there is hope, and you would dig about you and take your rest in safety.
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Again, these are accusations that he's making against Job, and as I said in the beginning, we need to be, is there a time to do that? Yes, there is a time to confront, isn't there? There is a time to admonish.
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There is a time to rebuke.
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Are his three friends really desiring to help Job, or are they trying to, again, get Job to kind of give in and say, yeah, you're right, I'm wrong, and here's my secret sins, and confess? Now, maybe you wanna say they have a little bit of a dual motive.
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Again, Zophar is the shortest speaker, but he's really one of the, in my mind, he's the worst of the lot as far as making accusations.
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Just to finish the chapter, he said in verse 18, you would be secure, because there's hope, and you would dig about, you would take your safety, you would lie down, and no one would make you afraid.
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Many would court your favor.
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Look at verse 20, the eyes of the wicked will fail.
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He's, they're not, I don't know about you, but I read that as basically what? Guilty as charged, right? And they shall not escape in their hope, loss of life, and that's why I said to you before, if this is a friend, I don't need an enemy.
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And you think about it, just touch this real lightly again.
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We gotta be careful how we use our words.
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Are we using our words, and I'm gonna make the distinction, are we using our words in a sense of judge, to judge somebody with the idea of helping them to be lifted up, or we speak words to each other to do this, to bring condemnation? And there's a difference between the two.
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Again, there's many ways in which we use words, and it's not only our words, right? It's our, it's even in our mannerisms, right? So, if I tell my wife, honey, you look really good today, or I say it to her in a way like, you think you look good today? Either way, I won't say that.
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But, but, yeah, but you get my point? There's a different, huh? Yeah.
39:49
Cool stuff.
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But again, we'll now, when we come to chapter 12, Job is gonna fire back at Zophar.
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I mean, he's gonna, as much as Zophar unloaded on Job, Job's gonna unload on Zophar and his other friends.
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And this is really what happens through this book, is that this is back and forth, if you will.
40:12
And I've thought about that, because I've heard people say, going, doing a Bible study in a book of Job is very repetitive.
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And it is, and I'm not saying it's not, because this continually goes back and forth with some other things inserted.
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But to me, there's a reason for that.
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Because if I believe this is the inspired word, then I believe that every, God doesn't waste words, and God has put every single word in here.
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So if that argument is true in any degree, then we should entertain it as many times as it comes up.
40:45
Because I believe that God put it there, particularly because we have issues with it.
40:52
If you will, Barry? And also God uses repetition to emphasize something.
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Absolutely.
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God is holy, holy, holy, important.
40:59
Right, right.
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And there are some things that we need to be told over and over and over and over and over again, right? You don't have to tell a kid, usually you don't have to tell more than once not to touch the stove when it's hot.
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But there are other things where, you know, how many times you tell somebody something and what, do the same thing.
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So, all right, let's go into the refurbished, renovated, somewhat sanctuary, and worship.
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Let's pray.
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Father, thank you for our time, and Lord, thank you for letting us just talk.
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Thank you for letting us talk, but always knowing that your word is the standard, Lord.
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Keep us, Lord, where we ought to be, but yet, Lord, help us to open our minds up and to think about things in all its realities, not just the things we want to hear, but the things we ought to hear.
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So, bless us now, be a Brother Keith, be with our singing, be with our fellowship, be with our prayers, and may you be glorified in it all, in Christ's name, amen.