Catholic Answers Security

Catholic Answers’ Website Security Fundraising Claims

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Hey, good morning. Welcome to the dividing line for all of our friends down under who it's well 4 a .m. There. You're probably not listening live anyways, but we'll try to get that that itinerary up Today if we can on the blog.

We are hearing you Yelping and complaining. I'm not. I'm only doing a few things In. I mean, I'm I think Sunday night two things Monday two things to that Tuesday two things Wednesday. Then I go to Brisbane.

But there are a couple different places a lot of associated with University there. So we'll try to get that stuff up as soon as it's humanly possible. Thank you very much to the folks who have who are helping to make this trip.

Possibility still need some assistance along those lines if you can help to bear some of the ancillary costs in that goes into these kinds of trips looking forward to the debate with Abdullah Kunda at the University of Sydney on Monday good opportunity to present the gospel and In in a context where Muslims understand.

I finished my notes my keynote presentation for that last night looks real good. Happy with that. Also addressing for example on Wednesday justification and the uniqueness of Jesus especially in the context of a pluralistic society and things like that and then Flying up to Brisbane and looking forward to the conference up there With the brethren there so looking forward to it.

It's I figured out 32 hours in the air grand total 16 out 16 back and so I'm Charging up all of my extra batteries in case I can't find any power plane. So I can you know take a look at that stuff and be doing some work on the plane.

But already trying to shift my schedule toward the Australian because there's seven hours behind us actually there a day. They're 19 hours ahead of us, but Just functionally there are seven hours behind us and so I figure if I can start moving my sleep schedule that direction and Sleep the second half of the flight not the first half stay up stay awake.

And then sleep the second half that that'll help somehow I Still want to make sure that you understand for the first 24 hours after I land. After any flight of 10 hours or longer. For the first 24 hours after I land I cannot guarantee the orthodoxy of Anything I have to say all right, so just just I'm putting that out there right right now.

That first 24 hours very very questionable keep that in mind. I want to get to one thing here, and then we'll go to the phones. I got an email this way. I am on the Catholic answers email list. I've purchased stuff from Catholic answers.

I Actually keep up with what they're saying or try to anyways on some level. I Don't keep up as well as James Swan or others do and frequently they're directing me to things, but I do get their emails.

Their fundraising emails generally and I got one this morning, and I went. Something doesn't smell right here. Catholic answers website is under attack from anti-catholic computer hackers who want to silence us.

I wonder how do they know that they're anti-catholic. Maybe they're liberal Catholics that don't like Catholic answers. Maybe they're liberal Catholics that promote Homosexual priests or married priests or abortion or how do you know they're not Catholics?

How do you know they're anti-catholics? I love the way the Catholic answers just uses this big broad brush called anti-catholics, it's us versus the world say and So somehow they know who these hackers are and they also know their hearts.

They hate that our site is such an effective witness for the Catholic faith well If you know them well enough to know that Then you know who they are and you should have reported them and have them arrested right or are you just sort of guessing at?

This One that is relied upon by millions of individuals all over the world. I can just see millions of people every day to get on Catholic answers to go. What am I supposed to believe today? I don't know.

I need to I need to go into the forums and ask people and So, of course, there's a donate now list, won't you please help us protect this crucial resource and Then a little bit farther down says these hackers hate Catholic answers in our important mission every month these cyber criminals Try to infiltrate our online forums to make malicious and profane postings that insult embarrass and discourage our readers.

Most of whom are there for guidance and inspiration. Well, you know what? That's really common all over the web. I mean, why do you think I don't have comments on my youtube videos? Because primarily atheists which I guess an atheist and anti-catholic too, isn't he?

Hmm, I thought about that but atheists just love to fill comm boxes with vile Profane stuff and you have to spend half your life Moving through your comm box. Okay. I have 388 videos up now. Can you imagine how much time it would take me every day to go through and read everything it's been posted and delete all the Garbage, that's all I'd ever do.

I mean, I mean that that's just all I'd ever do so that's what happens on the Internet when you Many times I have discussed the fact that a a commentary box A web forum these are called Internet ignorance Aggregators this is where you you aggregate the sum total of the ignorance that is represented by the Internet and You concentrate it in one spot so that people can be even more ignorant there than they generally are in the rest of their lives.

That's how that works. Flood us with a hundred and thirty thousand spam emails a hundred and thirty thousand trying to clog our servers. Well Okay I my I have one email address and I would say It gets about 12 ,000 a month.

I think that's what's right. He's around 12 ,000 spam and that's just one. So if they have a bunch of email addresses, they're not getting any more spam than I am. Big deal, okay. Then make more than thirty thousand probes and attacks on our website attempting to find weaknesses in our servers.

They can use to hijack our site and upload any Catholic and pornographic content to destroy our site altogether now I I'm looking at this. I'm going wait a minute. You know these include DNS attacks form injections cross-site scripting URL manipulation session hijacks address spoofing and more and I was sitting here going this just sounds like what happens to every site and So Catholic answers gets a wake-up call.

This is where it got interesting. To keep our website safe from these malicious and often vile attacks We have to maintain a high degree of vigilance use special security systems and employ a web security team.

Are you ready a web security team of 17 full and part-time people yes 17 people. I Went wait one minute. There must be a big number coming here and of course as you can imagine none of these this comes cheap.

In fact keeping our website up running and safe from cyber criminals cost us more than a hundred twenty five thousand dollars every single year. Now you can't pay 17 people for a hundred twenty five thousand bucks and pay for your site costs and everything else.

So something ain't adding up here. So I I went in channel and I went to our guy now. We've got a guy Who is sort of, you know the man as far as our website's concerned and You know, he's one of those guys that eats breathes and sleeps network stuff and and speaks all that language and He's a volunteer.

His regular job. I'm I could tell you who or anything like that, but his regular job is in Maintaining helping to maintain one of the largest Websites in the world if I told you who it was you would know immediately.

You've seen it on TV. You've heard an advertising, you know exactly which one it is and He's vitally important in keeping all that running. It's international around the world and So I played this stuff for him.

I Played it but put in channel it's like Excuse me, but we have like this worldwide website and we have two security guys and And when we're under a lot of attack, I'll help Two security guys. All right, so.

And then he said and you know what as far as the numbers that they gave out there. That sounds like a day for us. I'd have to check the numbers, but that sounds like a day for ailment org not a month.

So it seems that maybe the folks maybe we're just you know. Maybe we're doing some community service here. Maybe the folks over Catholic answers need to realize they've got about 16 more people on their payroll than they really need if They just get the one guy who knows what he's doing.

They wouldn't need the 17 see that's oh Oh My and all of it is donate now click here now and there you go. I don't know. Sometimes I I wonder just a little bit about the folks over there in California, but Anyway, no, no, we do not have 17 people.

To keep our website up. We we have well rich riches. Which is over there and I don't really do anything along those lines and we're the only employees we've got. I Had to just chuckle just a little bit when I saw that because it was like Get everybody all excited and who you're you're you're really vitally important website might go down if we don't have 17 people that we're paying to protect it, you know and stuff like that.

All right. Well, okay, whatever. Interesting interesting stuff, so I Wonder what they're doing. What do those people do all day long? I mean because I'm sorry the amount of tax are getting any more than any other website is what are they doing all day long?

I suppose they're sitting around chatting about Theology so anyway, it's seven seven seven five three three three four one. There's your millions of dollars going into the budget of Catholic answers over there in San Diego.

Maybe eventually they'll get the idea that San Diego while a beautiful place to live is Also about one of the most expensive places on the planet to live and and maybe they'll find another place Where it wouldn't be nearly as expensive.

You don't have to pay people as much and it works a lot better that way. So anyhow, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number. Let's talk with Ken. Hi, Ken.

Doing good. Excellent. Hey, I just wanted to ask you briefly about the great apostasy concept in Mormonism. Mm-hmm, and it seems like the date is as fuzzy as can be and I talked to them and then give you anywhere between 70 where you still have live in Apostles and 325 and so I'm wondering nail them on this concept.

Well, yeah, that's just it.

You you don't you don't have a specifically defined date as far as as the Mormons are concerned I think there's today a little more concern on their part. Obviously today's Mormons are significantly more knowledgeable about church history than the first few generations were and so because of Things like BYU and stuff like that.

They they try to be a little less Flagrant in their use of historical facts, though. There's certainly lots of folks at BYU that Absolutely massacre the early church fathers as I documented long ago in my responses to Daniel C Peterson and Stephen Ricks and William Hamblin and things like that, but which is why they won't debate those issues, but anyway I was actually listened to a BYU fireside chat On mp3 about three or four months ago.

In fact, I think I played something about on the on the air and you got the same type of sometime after the Apostles and they connected of course to the rampant idea amongst their people that the there was a corruption due to the insertion of Greek philosophy Into the Christian faith and so Once you've got you know, and where do you really first start seeing that but Justin Martyr primarily?

I mean, I've said many times that it seems to me that Justin Martyr was more influenced by Plato than he was by Paul. And so they look at that and go. Oh, there's there's you know, there's there's where it is there's something along those lines and and certainly it would have to be within one or two generations because the big issue for the Mormons is the concept of priesthood and One of the questions I've always had of the very early date, you know as soon as the If it's if it's right after the Apostles died Then what in the world were the Apostles doing to where they could not pass the church on why didn't they weren't they ordaining?

Elders weren't they ordaining people in the priesthood weren't they building temples weren't they doing the things they were supposed to do? If if if they completely failed to build the next generation of leaders that doesn't reflect very well on On the Apostles at all.

And so I guess you'd have to come up with some idea. Well, you know they had prophesied that there would be these apostasy so they didn't bother to do this. You know, it's all very anachronistic at that point and so trying to identify the specific time is important because They they want to try to use early church fathers to say that many of these early church fathers did believe things that Mormons continue to believe today, but they're really stuck on a on a The horns of a dilemma at this point because if they say that the apostasy took place Right after the Apostles died then basically anything that they would look at in the early church is reflective of apostates people who no longer have Priesthood authority to speak for God.

And so the best they can do then is saying well, you know these Temple ritual type things that the Gnostics had or just sort of a faint Echo of what they once had in in in what we believe and so on and so forth, which I'm sorry is is not very very convincing as far as argumentation is concerned, so They Mormonism is still in flux in many ways.

I mean, let's let's face it when Mormonism Fled out of The middle section of the country and landed in Utah for quite some time. They were extremely insulated out there I mean, they were their own little nation and There was very little interaction up until the 1950s I'd say with the outside world.

They were very very locked away but sometime in the late 50s early 60s, it was decided that that couldn't stay that way and and The results for Mormonism have been quite interesting. Yeah, there was a period of unprecedented growth from the 70s into the early 90s.

But that has slowed considerably and even though they're up to about 13 million. That's almost all natural growth now and so Mormonism as a religion has sort of lost its way. It's not really sure where it's going.

It's it's uncertain of its identity and and as a result its scholarship is is widening out in the sense of you know, you used to know exactly where Mormons are coming from well not really anymore and So how they deal with the early church and things like that is evolving and changing as well.

And so you can have this great general concept of well, we have to believe there was an apostasy because we believe. Even though Joseph Smith didn't originally claim this and it wasn't originally a part of the 18 33 Book of Commandments, but it was inserted later in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants that you have this Establishment of the priesthood and first John the Baptist comes back and you've got the Aaronic priesthood and you have Matthew Mark or Peter James and John for the Melchizedek priesthood and so on so forth and so the apostasy concept is very closely tied in with the priesthood concept and never ever forget the fact that the Mormon priesthood is just as much central to their understanding of authority and how their church exists as priesthood is in Roman Catholicism and so it's all tied together and so the the vagueness of the point of the apostasy is Something that's rather intriguing to recognize in their teachings.

Yeah, I was at one of their their seminaries one day and they were talking about how the Apostle John never died. Yes, right and was translated, but that he held the priesthood and was still on the earth that whole time.

And and so I tried to press them on this issue of you've got somebody who had the priesthood this entire time.

Why didn't he do something about it? Right? Well, it's not just not it's not just John. Because remember according to Book of Mormon, there's actually four people Who have who continue to hold the priesthood and never lost the priesthood because of the three Nephites and so there's actually four.

I would assume the LDS the standard LDS response that would probably something along the lines of it was not God's intention in light of the uniqueness of these particular individuals that they Reestablished the church and that and the and the priesthood authority that it was his intention to to do that through Joseph Smith.

I would assume that would be the response something along the lines. That's not overly convincing to me either. But I figured that's probably where they would go. But yeah, you're right there is this concept of of the priesthood having continued in that in that context, but Without these individuals ever passing that priesthood on to somebody else.

And how do we I mean, it just seems like they've got this concept in there. They're user using it to further their case of Christians were wrong, you know in the beginning. How do we really counter that with them or to them and to people around them?

Well.

The the the texts that they use again with especially with Mormonism the and with almost any error the best thing to do is to go directly into the text itself and the the texts. Well, interestingly enough the the same issues that I raised with Harold camping in regards to the nature of the church and the fact that God the Father will be glorified in the church throughout all ages in Ephesians 3.

Are the texts that we go to and and of course if you go to the great apostasy text There's no reason to take those as being universal in the sense of every single person Falls away and and there's no longer any church and so on so forth.

There's just too many indications of the fact that Christ is the one who builds his church. The gates of Hades will not prevail against that and by the way, that's not gates keeping Hades out of the church.

That Matthew 16 text is clearly the gates of Hades to get the date of the gates of death Will be battered down by the church not the other way around a lot of people Misunderstand that as if as if the church is being defended against something that's that's not what it is.

It's the advancement of the church that is promised there but anyway There are just so many texts you can go to and very rarely have the Mormons done anything more than just well you know, there's this statement about restitution of all things in Acts 3 and.

You go to those texts and you exegete them and you demonstrate that they're reading things into them that have no. No, nothing in the background of the text. Nothing that the the author would have ever thought of these things that they're making the authors contradictory themselves.

So It does require a positive presentation of the nature of the church. And a lot of people unfortunately a lot of Protestants never even think about that and that's why this is one area that just doesn't Get discussed a whole lot in Christian Mormon dialogue, but it is a a I think a good direction to go.

It and the priesthood together you really undercut the authority claims of Salt Lake. When you demonstrate what the Bible really does teach on these particular issues.

Yeah, I mean talking and all the missionaries that I've talked to about it. Seems to be something that they're just kind of like.

Well, yeah, well that that is true. More and more it's always been this way that you'll encounter LDS missionaries who are just all they can do is give you the party Line, they've never really given any particular critical thought to what they're teaching or saying themselves.

They you know, that's all they've ever known and they're just repeating the party line. Now. There are missionaries that you'll encounter who Have thought some of these things through. I remember One afternoon at Rich's house.

Remember this one rich. We had that just as two missionaries came over and We were talking to him and I was you know I was sitting at the front on the on the edge of my couch and so the guy is sitting on the edge of his Couch and we're just going back and forth and back and forth and all of a sudden There was a brief lull and we and we heard He looked over and the other missionary had fallen asleep on the other end of the couch he was so bored with our theological discussion and that he was out cold and We bored him into unconsciousness.

So You have your missionaries that are that are quite interested and have actually done some reading. But then most of them are just fulfilling their time, you know, they they really are they're just they're just trying to get through those that those two years so they can be a bishop and get the prettiest girls and That's.

Yeah, I've been meeting with a couple of Mormons. They actually came to the church and watched the John Dominic cross and debate that you did. Yes, and they agreed to come back and watch your debate with Martin Tanner.

Ah.

Martin Tanner, well, they're not gonna be overly excited about that. Brother Tanner was not overly. Let's just put this way. Martin Tanner was significantly more aggressive when he controlled the microphone on there in the radio station.

Then he was when he actually had to stop speaking at times. We just call what that's what a debate is. So. It was it was interesting. There were there are many times during the cross-examination. He just you just tell he wanted to be any place other than where he was.

So there's also another debate with it with Dennis Potter, but Dennis Potter might scare them. Because even though he's an LDS PhD in religious studies. He has an earring and a backpack that says no war in Iraq.

So he's a little bit of a interesting one, but it was that was an interesting debate as well.

Okay. All right again. Thank you for your time and look forward to seeing you out here pretty soon.

That's right in September for the debate with Dan Barker. Yes looking forward to it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one on there forget that missionary.

Maybe he just had oh, you know, it's tiring riding around Phoenix on a bicycle, you know, I can understand that He had just been totally silent the whole time you'd put his head in his hand and then he was gone and It was not like a light.

Eternal Sonship and the Meaning of Father and Son

Okay, let's talk with Bruce. Hi Bruce. Sounds like Harold camping's position, you know, um, it's like I believe in God could be the son from the script. So you're not a Trinitarian then. Yeah, I am a Trinitarian.

Oh, you are a Trinitarian. So you believe that the second the second person is Trinity has eternally existed. Yes, but not as the son Oh the Word of God, but as the Word of God, yes I see. Okay, and the spirit and the spirit has eternally existed as well.

Yes, okay. That's exactly what the Muslims say. That's correct. No, it doesn't know sir doesn't know it's that like I said, that's what the Muslims say and And the Mormons and various other heretical groups.

But I don't think you want to be using their argumentation and ignoring how Christians have understood this down to the centuries and and also How the Bible presents it? Can I just ask really quickly?

Did you get this from Harold camping? Really? No, I'm new to you. Listen to Harold camping. Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with Harold camping. So, you know, so you don't know Harold camping. All right.

Well the the fact the matter is the reason that We believe that the relationship between the father and the son is Not one that simply began at the Incarnation Is due the fact that the relationships between the divine persons?

Are revealed to us in the Incarnation and the outpouring of the Spirit. It's not an Old Testament revelation. Well, the Old Testament gives to us indications of these things the actual revelation of the doctrine of Trinity takes place between the Old and New Testament in The coming of Jesus Christ and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Both of which these events take place before any word of the New Testament was ever written. And so you have that revelation taking place and when we When we listen to what the Lord Jesus himself says concerning his relationship to the father He talks about this being a relationship.

That was eternal. That is that in John chapter 17 where the son is Praying to the father the incarnate son is praying to the non incarnate father. He talks about the glory which he had in the father's presence before the world began and He asks for that glory to be given back to him.

That he might have it once again. And so this one speaking clearly knows and recognizes that he existed as a divine person Prior to his incarnation and that there was an intimate relationship that existed between the father and the son.

The same thing is true in John 1 1 when this Logos this word the one that reveals the father is described as having an eternal relationship with the father and That he is the one who reveals the father.

John 1 18. No one has seen God at any time the monogamous they asked the unique God or the only God who is the son. He has revealed him and so that revelation comes to us from from the incarnation so in time we see the distinction of father and son in the Incarnation, but the error is to think that because we see it in time is that that's when it began.

That's where the problem is when when Paul talks about the pre incarnate Christ. And he talks about the kingdom of his beloved son in Colossians 1 13. And then goes on to talk about how it is the son who created all things.

Calling him the firstborn of all creation for by him all things great etc. Etc obviously. That was long before the incarnation and yet He is referred to in the same kind of relationship language that you have with the father and so when you say doesn't that?

Refer to a Creation or a time or something like that that that ignores the relationship of the father and son which has been eternal. That's taking the creek the creative element of those things since I have a son and I exist in time.

And I'm limited then my son must come after me and my son must have a a point an origin point of time to use that argument mean you should never use either father or son because it would go both directions.

A Father. I became a father at a point in time as well, and yet. God is clearly called father. Did he become father at the incarnation? No, you're right to point out by the way that generally the term father is used of God as creator in the Old Testament it is used once of the Son as the creator of Time in Isaiah chapter 9 when he is called Avi odd the father of eternity.

I think that's connected with Colossians chapter 1, but when you talk about the relationship of father and son and The one who has been sent forth by God the father Christians have always understood this to be an eternal Relationship not one that is limited by time and so it's talking about the relationship of father and son not some kind of positional Situation where one Gives rise to the other one.

Yeah at it in time itself or something like that. It's difficult for us to get outside of the concept of time because for us everything is a linear progression our entire language is based upon past present future.

Every verb we Use is based upon those types of things and so for us The grave danger is always to take creaturely categories and to read them back in the divine essence and as in doing so apply creaturely limitations to God that is there's nothing we can do about that because God has chosen to reveal himself to us in human language and therefore we have to Deal with those issues and there are going to be people who are going to go off on one direction and go off on other.

But when Christians have talked about the relationship of father son and spirit Especially once the full deity of Christ was being defended and understood from Scripture. Then the question became well if he's truly God could he have ever been anything less?

Than truly God did he truly participate in the divine nature and before creation was there any distinction? Between the father son the spirit in other words was there anything by which we could identify the divine persons before the creation itself began and it seems that the relationship of father son and spirit The the relationship of son to the father the father and son together sending the spirit The spirit coming forth in what is that John 14 when Jesus describes this that these are things that the individual persons do that Distinguish themselves from one another otherwise you'd basically be left with the idea that well once these Undifferentiated persons decide to create they decide to I don't know take on a name so that we might be able to distinguish them or something like that and I think that there's a there's a real problem in thinking that the actual distinctions between father son and spirit are actually just things that were Can't come up with in reference to creation itself.

That that's that that would cause I think some real problems to to say that well These aren't really eternal relationships that we're describing here. These are just so that you can Differentiate between us.

We'll call him Bob and we'll call him Bill. We'll call him Tom. I Think there's a much more intimate relationship that is Represented by the terms father and spirit and when we take it outside the realm of time.

Then that that idea that like I said every time I speak with Muslims, this is something I have to explain to them, too. Of course they their problem is the Quran presents the idea that the the Jesus is actually the offspring of Allah and Mary which has very physical elements to it.

But I try to say look we don't believe that there is ever a time when the Sun was not the Sun. We don't believe that he became something now is he shown to be the Son of God in the incarnation in the same way He's shown to be the Son of God in the resurrection.

I mean there were some in in church history. There have been people who say it said that Jesus became the Son of God the baptism adoptionists. There are some some who said that the incarnation demonstrated there were some who said that the resurrection said the reality is all three Gave evidence of the reality that existed in the incarnation itself but we must recognize in Philippians chapter 2 when when Jesus as We know him in his with his human name Did not give consideration to holding on to desperately the equality had with the father, but he Humiliate himself.

He made himself of no reputation by taking on the form of servant. This is a divine person in before the incarnation. Doing what he does choosing to do these actions as a divine person and the result of his so choosing certainly helps us to See these relationships and his teaching then expands upon these things.

But I really believe that we have to emphasize strongly that Father and son is telling us something more than just well the same thing that Bob or Tom Would have told us there's something more of the relationship that is being revealed in that and so I'm not ready to.

You know there have been some people who have very strange stridently argued for the idea of Incarnational sonship without denying the Trinity without saying the second person of Trinity, you know. Came into existence in your incarnation oneness all the rest that stuff, and it's not like you were trying to avoid that I'm not ready to you know kick those those people out of the kingdom or something like that, but I think it's a it's a A sub biblical position to hold because it's going to end up causing Far more questions that actually answers and you end up going well.

Why why then is the Sun described the way the Sun? Why do what is Paul in Colossians 1? Have the willingness to use the language that he uses there and someone might say well You know he's writing after the incarnations, so you know we can just sort of throw toss all that stuff up in the air.

I I just I think it ends up really Emptying the meaning of father and son. I came forth from him Jesus says I think in John especially if you were to ask John Is is the term son merely incarnational is this merely something that that?

50 years before the incarnation would not have been a proper way of seeing the relationship of the first person the Trinity in the second person of Trinity he would have Lectured for quite some time on why that wasn't the case because He has such a rich fullness in his discussion of the relationship of the of the father and the son.

So I went way way way way way past my my break time there, but hopefully that was helpful to you Bruce. Thank you, Bruce. You have a good day. You still want to try to not keep going. Oh, thanks fine I talked the whole time and you guys just sitting there, and you know it's easy for you to say We don't know you guess you've got your diet Pepsi.

You're you're ready to go fine I will just press on here as slave drivers in the other room. I tell you Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Let's go back to the East Coast and let's talk with George.

Hi George. How you doing?

Dr.. White doing good. Yeah, I had a question in reference to To Romans 518 I'm a Calvinist, and I've been you know seems like he you know he's proven ism.

Yeah, well obviously if if these individuals in YouTube video are good universalists then they they might Have a case because if they're taking it to mean They're ignoring the two humanities the one in Adam the one in Christ.