Keep sharing good news without ads.
September 15, 2017:
Dr. TONY COSTA, Professor of Apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary who will address:
“DID the REFORMERS INVENT a NEW GOSPEL?”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.
Chris what an appropriate song that is to introduce my guest dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary who is my guest once again on iron sharpens iron radio. It's so great to have him back on the program.
We're going to be discussing a very important subject today because of the fact that we have a Reformation Day approaching. Today we are discussing did the Reformers invent a new gospel and we're also going to be talking about a conference that Dr. Costa will be speaking at on Long Island and also a morning worship service at a Reformed Baptist Church out there.
But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Dr. Tony Costa, I don't know if you noticed that was a Riva Derchy Roma playing in the background by Dean Martin. And I remember the first time I did that I had I was working for WMCA radio In Rutherford, New Jersey, and it was one of those occasions where I was filling in For our talk show host Andy Anderson and I was interviewing Richard Bennett.
Are you familiar with Richard Bennett? Yeah, former Roman Catholic priest who became a born-again believer and is now a Reformed Baptist. And by the way, our listeners should know that you should be keeping Richard in Your prayers as he continues to battle health issues a lot of it.
Because of his age and so on but I could remember even though Richard is very bold about the gospel he's very bold about the differences between Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity or biblical Christianity.
He still has a very genteel personality a very quiet Personality and I can remember after the show was over when he Finally had an opportunity to say something to me off the air about the music. He was like, oh brother I didn't want to say about that.
Oh, oh brother. I couldn't believe you did Being from Ireland of our listeners if they didn't pick up my fake Irish accent there. Well before we go into the heart, I'm sorry brother.
And.
You did say good. You did say a revered Archie Roma quite a while ago being a former Roman Catholic who converted to biblical Christianity, but Before we go into our topic at hand Why don't you give us a summarized version of your testimony?
I know that you're from a Portuguese family or at least a family of Portuguese Ethnicity and you were a Roman Catholic. Tell us something about your a testimony. And then After that happened, obviously you were drawn into the reformed faith.
Well, we are.
Those of us who know you are rejoicing that God has given The church at large such a precious gift in you brother because you certainly have blessed quite a number of people With your gifts and you are one of these rare individuals That although you are very gifted and quite a brilliant man of fountain of knowledge.
You are still a very deeply humble a brother in Christ and those combinations are rare and you know that a person has to really know what they're talking about has to be on their toes and be really a Very veritable Fountain of knowledge as I was saying.
If dr. James are white has you on standby to take his place at a debate? Because of the fact that he's feeling under the weather and is worried that he might not be able to participate as he did With you back in January at the last g3 conference when he was debating the president of Catholic answers.
By the way, I didn't do my normal opening today. Did I didn't use. I didn't. Well, I'm gonna do it just for the sake of continuity good afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.
We're listening be alive streaming This is Chris Orns in your host of iron trip and Zion radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 15th day of September 2017. Now, I feel better. I Think that's the first time I think I ever forgot to do that.
Well, I have perhaps when we come back probably not the rest of the song. Well, I gotta hear that beginning a few more times, yeah when we come back from the Station breaks perhaps. That's what threw me off.
I did something out of the ordinary. But I was I don't know if you were aware of this dr. Costa, but I Was just recently contacted by Justin Briarley at the unbelievable radio program in the UK and he Invited me to Participate in an interview giving my testimony a special Reformation Day program where he wanted both sides To be involved in this program.
He had me give my testimony and he had a British attorney James Bogle Who is a former Protestant Who converted to Roman Catholicism? He gave his testimony as well what I did not know because I was never told beforehand that this was Going to be a debate as well, and I have never Participated personally as an actual debater in a formal sense in a live public sense and even though this was conversational style This is not really like a debate that you have like the ones you and dr White have participated and where they're of great length.
They are rigidly timed. They're moderated in a strict sense. This was not anything like that. It was a conversational debate.
But.
And I really enjoyed myself. I really enjoyed both Justin Briarley who I am pretty certain is a an evangelical Protestant and I even enjoyed James Bogle. He was a very nice individual.
Without Giving the impression that I am insulting him because I that's not my intention, but he was basically giving all of the rote Catholic answers. Pardon the pun.
To to.
The issues of Protestantism things that if it were a lengthier debate rigidly timed and Where I was actually notified that it would be a debate. I Would have been able to easily document that his claims were false.
But one of the things that he said I During the debate is.
That.
If.
Martin Luther's gospel was true then Christianity would have been ushered into the world for the very first time in the 16th century because nobody other than perhaps a few tiny exceptions here and there that are insignificant to insignificant to really Discuss at great length the gospel of Martin Luther did not exist prior to his arrival and and prior to his After the nailing of the 95 theses on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg when he eventually Did become an actual Bible-believing Christian, I believe it was during the time he was translating Erasmus's Greek Bible into German.
I think that's when it occurred. Perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a really Absurd claim, isn't it that that Martin Luther? Invented this novel concept that no one ever believed before the 16th century.
Yes.
Isn't one of the reasons that the the Reformers were so successful in Spreading the word about the Reformation about the the gospel of the Bible that had been obscured and.
Buried.
Under centuries of sacramentalism and Idolatry and the true The truly labeled I should say inventions of men which the Church of Rome is a master at.
One of the reasons they had such great success is that they not only appealed to Scripture of their primary proof of their beliefs And of course Sola Scriptura is one of the watchwords of the Reformation but they also were appealing to the church fathers to the patristic evidence that what they were talking about what they were teaching and preaching and proclaiming and writing about was not a Novelty it had precedent it had historic precedent in the church for centuries.
All right.
Well, I think that.
Although some of us Some of our listeners I should say might think when I ask very basic questions that it's really you know wasting time or something to have you define something that is is Fairly commonly known but it's it's it's it's a issue that is so Twisted and is so often Denied even if unconsciously and there are so many there are so many masquerades of the gospel That I think it is a good good point in our discussion right near the beginning here to define What is the biblical gospel?
Yes, and a lot of people today a lot of people who are ecumenically minded That would include people like Rick Warren and just a whole host of of people That believe that there are differences otherwise should I say they recognize the obvious fact that there are differences between Between the Protestant Reformers in the Church of Rome and Obviously including when I say the Protestant Reformers the heirs of the Reformation those who truly have carried forward through the centuries The biblical gospel that the Reformers uncovered.
They will say that yeah, well there are differences but they are really not that. They are not that catastrophic they are not that huge enormous or serious that they should be categorized as salvific differences and.
They.
Like for instance a Norman Geisler very.
Famous.
Very highly respected evangelical theologian philosopher. Used to be a frequent guest in the John Ankerberg program. Perhaps still is I'm not sure but author of many books. In fact one time Used to have very pleasant communication with our mutual friend.
Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries even endorsed his book Dr. White's book the King James only controversy, but then when the issue of Calvinism really started to be more in the forefront the doctrines of the scripture in regarding To a total depravity unconditional election limited atonement irresistible grace and perseverance of the Saints then Dr. Geisler started to be more public about his disdain for these things.
And he even went so far To basically to basically soften the edges of the lines of demarcation between Truly historic and biblical Reformation theology and Roman Catholic theology by saying that the Church of Rome is not a False church with some truths.
It is a true church that happens to have some false teachings. Where do you stand on? Dr. Geisler's. Geisler's claim.
Yeah, and in fact.
From all we know I know that I keep repeating this a lot on this program but I think it's an important factor because of the rise of ecumenism amongst professedly conservative Christians humanism used to be the backyard exclusively of liberals and now many conservative or professedly conservative Christians and denominations have extended the olive branch to Roman Eastern Orthodoxy and because of the Moral issues that are Confronting us in society and they think that we would have strength in numbers by including them as our brothers in Christ thinking that those issues are more serious than the gospel itself, but the the Judaizers from for all we know they believed in many of the areas of The Apostles Creed, you know, they believed in the necessity of Having faith in Jesus Christ and Repenting and so forth.
From what we know because Paul doesn't criticize the Judaizers for anything other than their insistence upon Requiring circumcision for salvation. That was the only thing that we know of that. He was furious about So much so that he declared an anathema or a curse upon the Judaizers now.
Would you agree that it is likely since Paul is silent on all other issues. That just like we have things in common with Rome and the Eastern Church. That the Judaizers likely also had that same commonality other than The issue that actually nullified completely their gospel and that was circumcision.
And we're going to our first break right now if you'd like to join us. With a question of your own for dr.
Tony Costa on the theme we are discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel. Our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com chris Arnz and a gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country your residence if you live outside the USA.
Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. Let's say you disagree with your pastor on this. You don't want to identify yourself. Perhaps you're a Roman Catholic and you want to Critique something that dr. Costa is saying or something that I am saying, but you don't feel like drawing attention to your identity.
Well, we will accommodate you and let you remain anonymous. But if it's not a personal and private matter, please Give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
So don't go away. God willing. We're gonna be right back after these messages with dr. Tony Costa. One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.
I know you all use batteries every day. So I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use battery depot .com for all your battery needs at battery depot .com. They're changing the status quo. They're flipping the script.
They're sticking it to the man. In other words, they're changing the status quo. They'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top-of-the-line batteries that are uniformly new dependable and affordable.
Ordering from battery depot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out-of-the-box batteries. You can count on to work properly at competitive prices. Whether you need batteries for cordless phones cell phones radios PCs laptops tablets baby monitors hearing aids smoke detectors credit card readers digital cameras electronic cigarettes GPS's mp3 players watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries go to battery depot .com.
Next day shipping available all products protected by 30-day guarantees and six-month warranties. Call 866 403 3768 that's eight six six four zero three 3768 or go to battery depot .com. That's battery depot .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read. Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books .com That's solid ground books .com and see what priceless Literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground.
Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.
Tired of bop store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert. Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching. Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.
Well, there's good news Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience Featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word. And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.
Call them at 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 for service times 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The new American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study used by pastors scholars and everyday readers. The NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.
The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages Which the NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.
From compacted giant print Bibles find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at NAS Bible calm. Whichever edition you choose trust discover and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to NAS Bible calm.
That's NAS Bible calm.
I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie .org www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.
Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time For a visit to the pastor's study. Because everyone needs a pastor. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor frequent co-host with Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Todd and Patty specialize in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.
Since.
1987 the family owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites They make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time.
That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic Heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.
Their website is CVBBS .com. Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.
That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is dr Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. We are discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel? And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.
Chris.
Arnzen at gmail .com. And please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. Before I go on to our interview I just want to remind you we just heard the Reverend Buzz Taylor reading the ad for The Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
CVBBS .com. Well, they want you all to know that they have a half-price sale on all reformed expository Commentaries including the brand-new volume on Revelation by Richard D Phillips. That's 50 off all Reformed expository commentaries and they're all in hard Back editions.
So if you want to take advantage of the sale, please go to CVBBS .com. CVBBS .com it's kind of funny that they're having a sale on all reformed Expository commentaries. They're not selling any Wesleyan or Armenian Commentaries in the whole in the whole place and they never have so it's kind of interesting that they Emphasize that but I guess that was for the sake of those who are unfamiliar with CVBBS .com.
But I hope you take advantage of that sale as many of you as possible and please if you contact CVBBS .com Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and Dr. Tony Costa we have a Listener.
In fact, he was in attendance at the debate. You participated in in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. With my friend Robert St. Genes the Roman Catholic apologist on the theme Mary sinner saved by grace or sinless Queen of Heaven.
Which is basically on the immaculate conception and perpetual sinlessness of Mary. The Roman Catholic dogma on those things and.
He.
Pastor George Jensen of the Enola First Church of God and Enola, Pennsylvania This was quite a critical and a an important event that he attended that you were involved in because of the fact it Erased completely all doubts that he had that the truth claims of Roman Catholicism had any Credibility it completely erased that a question in his mind and he knew he knew and now knows still that those are false claims in regard to the gospel and in regard to the history of these teachings and so on.
So he is very indebted to you and your your your participation in that debate and I am as well. I am very delighted with the the way that that The debate was handled and in spite of my friendship with Roberts and Genesee Obviously believed that he has a false gospel and he knows that he believes I have a false gospel.
So I am glad that truth clearly triumphs in that debate. But Pastor George Jensen of the Enola First Church of God and Enola, Pennsylvania says in his book Lustitia day and forgive me for butchering the Latin When I was an altar boy, it was after Vatican II and we didn't have Latin mass anymore but Alistair McGrath states for the first 350 years of the church her teaching on justification was inchoate and ill-defined and He also states furthermore the few occasions upon which a specific discussion on of justification can be found Generally involved no interpretation of the matter other than a mere paraphrase of a Pauline statement.
Justification was simply not a theological issue in the pre-augustinian tradition. Is Alistair McGrath Correct in what he is saying. If so, does this mean as some argue that the Reformers? Interpretation of the gospel is as equally valid as the remote as the Roman Catholic interpretation.
Assume what he means by that equally wrong. Yeah, and So, I know that this is not what McGrath is saying. But there are others using McGrath's words to claim that we cannot be certain of what the true gospel is.
If you could comment on that. Wow, that's some coincidence or providence.
Again that's why the app is that's why the Apostles Creed is does not talk about salvific issues in regarding to justification.
Well, thank you. Pastor George. Keep listening to iron trip and Zion radio and keep spreading the word about the program Among your congregation there in Enola, Pennsylvania and beyond and I look forward to you co-hosting the program once again.
So let's keep in touch. Thank you very much for the excellent question. We have Joe in Slovenia. Who says what a great topic just today while doing some research for dialogue in our church on topics concerning Roman Catholicism and true Christianity.
I discovered the Council of Orange in 529. I'm shocked that I had been basically ignorant of this very important council until now. Particularly I discovered Comparisons of the canons of the Council of Orange and the Council of Trent.
Have I been terribly negligent or are such comparisons of Orange and Trent fairly rare is. If so, why. The comparisons are fascinating and give irrefutable evidence. That Roman Catholicism is not consistent with historic Orthodox Christianity.
How do Roman Catholics explain away the diametrically opposed views of these two councils on? The errors of Pelagianism. Even though they deny that they both they do deny that because because they say they say that provenient grace.
Nullifies that charge against them, right? Now one of the things about Vatican to.
This is what I have heard for quite a while from my more conservative Slash traditionalist Roman Catholic friends. They will remind me when I bring up things like the the modern Catholic catechisms acceptance of Muslims Non-christian Jews and others as Adoring the the one true God along with Christians.
They will say well.
I.
Disagree with that just as much as you do and that's not dogma. Not everything in the Catholic catechism is dogma. There is much that is just as the the charge against Luther was that these were novel ideas and inventions of a disgruntled reformer they will say that that's the same thing going on here with the more liberal Catholics at Vatican to And ever since then they progressively growing more liberal Catholics that these are novel ideas.
They are not forever binding on the church like dogma that was declared a Trent for instance, so The Catholic Church isn't. Aren't they really just talking out of both sides of their mouths because on the one hand they have never renounced Trent and never can because of the House of Cards on papal infallibility Collapsing if they were to renounce it as as false And at the same time while they maintain Trent is dogma and valid They say things out of the other side of their mouth that that really Contradict Trent and my run on this.
Can count the second Vatican Council. The second Vatican Council, right?
Well, they will claim the more traditionalist Catholic will claim that the Vatican to is not not that everything in Vatican to is not binding, but they will claim that the Novel ideas that were absent before Vatican to are not dogma.
That's at least what I hear from my concern.
Reverend buzztail. I'm kind of with Joe here Joe from Slovenia. Because I'm just asking myself a question. How did I get along this long and not hear of the Council of Orange?
Could you tell me a little bit more about that? In fact, why don't you pick that up when we return from our midway break? Dr. Costa, I don't know if you heard Brethren buzz Taylor. He wants you to give us more details about the Council of Orange.
I think that Anita Bryant was present at that Council wasn't.
Anyway.
We're going to be Taking more of your questions as well. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away.
God willing. We'll be right back with dr Tony Costa and our theme did the Reformers invent a new gospel. I am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.
Try world at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book relationship between church and state. I Rely on world because I trust the reporting. I gain insight from the analysis and world provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.
I believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth That's simply not found in other media outlets. Armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.
This trial includes bi-weekly issues of world magazine on scene reporting from world radio and the fully shareable content of world digital. Simply visit wmg .org Forward-slash iron sharpens to get your world trial and dr. Sproul's book all free.
No obligation with no credit card required. Visit world news group at wmg .org. Forward slash iron sharpens today.
Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions Coffee shops and local hangouts Long Island youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.
We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus. Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
Long Island youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world-class staff and a proven track record of bringing Consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future Volunteer. Donate pray or all of the above. For details call, Long Island youth for Christ at 6 3 1 3 8 5 8 3 3 3 that's 6 3 1 3 8 5 8 3 3 3 or visit liy fc .org That's liy.
FC.
Iron sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors. Serving South Central, Pennsylvania Solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering Understanding and exceeding your expectations.
They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results. Solid rock remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath remodeling decks porches.
Windows and doors.
Roof and siding and more for a clear detailed professional estimate. Call this trustworthy team of problem solvers who provide superior results that stand to the test of time. Call solid rock remodeling at 7 1 7 6 9 7 1981 7 1 7 6 9 7 1981 or visit solid rock remodeling calm that solid rock remodeling calm solid rock remodeling Bringing new life to your home.
Have you been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio? We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you. There are four ways you can help. First do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on iron sharpens iron radio?
Second whenever possible purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise and Then let them know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio. Thirdly you can also donate to iron sharpens iron radio by going to our website at iron sharpens iron radio Calm and click support at the top of the page.
But most importantly keep iron sharpens iron radio in your prayers. We hope that iron sharpens iron radio blesses you for many years to come.
Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.
Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because Everyone needs a pastor.
Chef exclusive catering is in South Central, Pennsylvania. Chef exclusives goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate. Chef Damien white of chef exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in culinary arts and applied science.
Chef exclusive caterings event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for small office gatherings bridal showers engagement parties and rehearsal dinners. Critics and guests alike acknowledge chef exclusives commitment to exceeding even the highest expectations I know of their quality firsthand since.
Chef exclusive catered by most recent iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon. For details, call 7 1 7 3 8 8 3 thousand That's 7 1 7 3 8 8 3 thousand or visit chef exclusive calm. That's chef exclusive calm.
Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.
Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.
It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing. We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and together.
Hi.
I'm pastor Bob Walderman. I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be. Call in Brook Baptist at 5 1 6 5 9 9 9 4 0 2 that's 5 1 6 5 9 9 9 4 0 2. Or visit Linbrook Baptist org, that's Linbrook Baptist org.
Hi, I'm buzz Taylor frequent co-host with Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio. I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CV BBS. Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service?
Todd and Patty specialized in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.
1987 the family-owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites. They make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly Much of what is being printed is not worth your time.
Their website is CV bbs .com. Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence. As Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CV bbs .com.
That's CV bbs .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio.
And go to CV bbs .com for the half-price sale on all reformed expository commentaries all in hardback including the brand new volume on revelation by Richard D Phillips and That's CV bbs .com CV bbs .com and don't forget to mention that you heard about this sale and about CV bbs .com on Iron sharpens iron radio.
Well, welcome back. We are once again discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel with our guest? Dr Tony Gasta professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, but before I return to our discussion, I have some important announcements to make in regard to Invent events coming up one of which are actually two of which include the participation of our guest.
Dr Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. The first is the Word of Truth Church and Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship present the gospel of the Reformation a 500th anniversary celebration and dr Costa will be joined by a pastor Kayla bunch pastor Bruce Bennett and pastor Chris Pandolfi.
If you would like to attend this conference go to Wot church .com that's WOT which stands for word of truth. Calm WOT church calm or call the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York at 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14.
The very follow I forgot to mention the dates on that the dates are Friday, September 29th and Saturday September 30th. So we hope that you can attend and then the very next day the Sunday the first Sunday of October.
At 11 a .m. Dr. Costa will be speaking at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Medford, Long Island, New York. That website is hope reformed li .net hope reformed li standing for Long Island net.
I intend to be there Manning and iron sharpens iron radio booth at both of those events. So I hope to see you both at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island and at the Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Medford New York September 29th through October 1st.
Then we have coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th another event where God willing I will be Manning and iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth. It's an event Orchestrated by the Alliance of confessing evangelicals.
It's the Quaker town conference on reformed theology held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker town, Pennsylvania. And the theme is for still our ancient foe a reference to Satan in that classic Reformation hymn by Martin Luther a mighty fortress.
Speakers include Kent Hughes Peter Jones, Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and Scott Oliphant and.
Hope that you join me there where I will have God willing. And I interpret as iron exhibit is both. The website to register is Alliance net org. Alliance net org. Click on events and then click on Quaker town conference on reformed theology.
Then coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th the g3 conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia. The g3 standing for grace gospel and glory. The theme this coming January is knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship.
On the 17th of January, it will be exclusively a Spanish-speaking edition of the conference from the 18th through the 20th Will be an English speaking edition of the conference and the speakers include Stephen Lawson Bodie Balcom Phil Johnson Keith Getty HB Charles jr. Tim Challis Josh by Josh Bice James white Tom Askel Anthony Mathenia Michael Kruger David Miller Paul trip Todd Friel Derek Thomas Martha peace and Justin Peters.
If you'd like to register go to g3 conference calm g3 conference calm, please if you contact any of these organizations power church ministries or churches. Please make sure that you let them know that you heard about these events on iron trip and Zion radio.
And now it comes time for me to rattle my tin cup again something that I never am comfortable doing. But my advertisers have urged me for quite a long time to make public appeals daily for donations. And new advertisers to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.
If you love this program if it means a lot to you if you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves Please consider donating to iron trip and Zion radio by going to iron sharpens iron radio comm click on events.
I'm sorry click on support and You will have an address where you can mail a check for any amount made payable to iron sharpens iron radio. Please never ever siphon money out of your regular giving to your local church and never take food off of your family's dinner table if You're struggling to make ends meet but if you're blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands providing for church and home and Please consider helping us out.
If indeed you do love this program and don't want to go away. If you'd like to advertise with us, just send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a are nze and a gmail .com and as long as what you want to advertise is compatible with the theology of iron sharpens Iron radio, I would be delighted to discuss an ad campaign with you because we urgently need those advertising dollars.
Keep in mind that the the word compatible with my theology does not mean identical. You don't have to be a five-point Calvinist to advertise an iron sharpens iron radio. But you cannot be promoting something that is in direct opposition to what I believe and now we are returning to our discussion.
Did the Reformers invent a new gospel and Before we went to the break the Reverend buzz Taylor had a question about a further explanation on the Council of Orange.
Well, I would sure understand the answer to Joe's question the whole. I better if I understood what the Council of Orange was.
And of course my joke about a knee of Nita Bryant went over buzzes head and perhaps even Tony's head because he's from Canada. But at least here in the United States. Yeah. Back in the 70s perhaps even part of the 80s there were frequent television commercials for orange juice.
By.
Former Beauty Queen Anita Bryant.
Who was.
Synonymous with orange juice for quite a while then she was synonymous for publicly opposing the gay rights activists demand that they have equal rights to have schoolteachers Homosexual schoolteachers at Christian private schools and sadly, she was quite vilified and I don't think a Significant number of Christians really rose up to the occasion of defending her like they should have even though there may have been Some of that.
I don't think it was adequate and but anyway Dr. Costa if you could give us a brief summary of the Council of Orange.
Council of Orange was egregious a birdie. We were born basically good without original sin and They condemned it to be condemned at the Council of Ephesus and at 29.
Thomas Aquinas did as well, didn't he? Thomas Aquinas did as well, didn't he?
Nation and actually anathematized and its moderate position of the Reformation Lee an affirmation.
Reverend where's orange. Reverend buzz Taylor asked. Where is orange?
One of the things that came up during the debate that I had were conversation.
With James Bogle. The Roman Catholic eternity in the United eternity. The Roman Catholic attorney, I guess I'm thinking about eternity. On the unbelievable program as he basically was saying it wasn't basically he was saying clearly that The Roman Catholic Church gave us the Bible.
Therefore I have no right or no Protestant neither the Reformers nor anybody living today that agrees with them. Has the right to question the Roman Catholic Church on their doctrine because they gave us the Bible if you could.
Respond to that kind of a thing that kind of an argument.
Now.
If you were to make the argument I even brought this up the other day on the program If you wanted to give some kind of benefit to the doubt to that claim in the physical sense that God used Monks and monasteries who are scribes to carefully copy the texts of the Bible and pass them down through the centuries and so on one might say that the Lords in his sovereignty used the Catholic Church and even the Roman Catholic Church in preserving The text of the Bible, but as you brought up earlier The we received the church received the Old Testament canon the Hebrew Scriptures from the Jews and that did not give them a pedigree worthy of considering them to be the arbiters of True religion because they denied Christ and cried out for his crucifixion in the in the majority.
So there you have an evidence that just because God used a people to preserve His word does not mean that those very people are in any way some kind of elite group with with the truth. And you also have the Jews Through their Talmudic writings adding to that word that they were used of God to preserve is am I making sense there?
Yeah, and ironically The when the Church of Rome, I mean, this is our main topic. Did the Reformers invent a new gospel their claim that We are the new kids in the block in the 16th century with things Either never before believed or very rarely before believed you have the the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures the Jews Whose Bible that originally was would say to the Church of Rome.
Wait a minute. You're adding The apocrypha or the what they the Roman Catholics call the deuterocanonical books. You're adding them to our canon. We've never believed that those were a part of our canon.
Isn't that a novel thing that? The Church of Rome defined as dogma in the 16th century that the Apocryphal or deuterocanonical books must be added or included. I should say must be included in a Bible to make it an authentic Edition of the scriptures.
And one of the reasons this is important is because going back to the gospel did the Reformers invent a new gospel.
The the concept of purgatory the sacrament of penance and the prayers for the dead of radically affects the gospel. It nullifies the true gospel. It is no gospel at all if you include that kind of a doctrine and.
The the only place that I'm aware that the Roman Catholic Scholar will refer in regard to prayer for the dead that aspect of purgatory.
Is from the apocryphal or deuterocanonical books? Am I right on that? So if you could summarize.
Because it's such an important issue going back to.
The.
The statement I Repeated earlier from the Roman Catholic attorney James Boggle or boggle from the United Kingdom who said that the Church of Rome gave us The Bible because they hammered out through councils.
What books should be included and what books should be discarded? How do you compare that? Explanation for how we received the scriptures from. The difference between a declaration of what we have as a church received from God as his canon and a council.
Deciding what is in and what is not in the canon? What's the difference between those two things?
Athanasius Had in writing what he believed the canon to be. What was his? What was the canon that he described in his writings. Compared to both a Protestant canon and a Roman Catholic canon. Okay, so he doesn't get involved in anything in regard to the dispute of the Old Testament canon in regard to the deuterocanonical or Apocryphal, okay.
Okay, we have a questioner. Let's see we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County who says this is a question for Chris. Oh. You mentioned earlier that Thomas Aquinas believed in double predestination. Is that the same understanding of double predestination that Calvin would later have.
I don't think so. I didn't I apologize if I was trying to make it make a claim that they had an identical understanding of double predestination. But I am not a scholar which is why I.
Interview.
Brilliant people rather than serve as a guest myself or or as a solo act here on iron sharpens iron. But do you. I don't know if how familiar you are with Thomas Aquinas. But do you know of a difference that he had with Calvin on?
Double predestination or even predestination in general. Yeah, because obviously I can't answer the question as to how they differed. Thomas Thomas Aquinas's Thomas is a Thomas Aquinas is understanding of double predestination and a Calvin's.
Do you have a knowledge of Thomas Aquinas and his understanding of that? He refuted it. I thought that he I was.
Okay, for some reason I thought that Thomas Aquinas believed in double predestination or had a different version of it or something like.
Yeah, and.
But one thing I also want to make it clear when we have these conversations about patristic evidence. In regard to the the truths of the Bible that the Protestants claimed during the Reformation. The Protestants claimed that the the The doctrines that they were teaching in opposition to Rome were present in the patristic era.
We're not saying that the church fathers were.
Were.
Identical or nearly exactly the same as Protestants, but we were also saying they're not Exactly the same as Roman Catholics for the difference is they claim unanimity With the church fathers and we do not.
Am I right on that? We're going to our final break right now and If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own before we run out of time Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
Chris a RN z n at gmail .com. Please. Give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence. If you live outside of the USA, don't go away. God willing. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.
Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present You can unearth from solid ground.
One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers. I know you all use batteries every day. So I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use Battery Depot calm for all your battery needs at battery Depot calm.
They're changing the status quo. They're flipping the script. They're sticking it to the man. In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top-of-the-line batteries.
There are uniformly new dependable and affordable. Ordering from battery Depot calm ensures you'll always get fresh out-of-the-box batteries. You can count on to work properly at competitive prices.
Whether you need batteries for cordless phones cell phones radios PCs laptops tablets baby monitors hearing aids smoke detectors credit card readers digital cameras electronic cigarettes GPS's mp3 players watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries go to battery Depot Calm.
Next day shipping available all products protected by 30-day guarantees and six-month warranties.
Call.
866 403 3768 that's 866 403 3768 or go to battery Depot calm. That's battery Depot calm.
Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man. If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukins pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do Than how men view these things.
That's not the best recipe for popularity. But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth.
And love. If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 528 5750. That's 508 528 528 5750 or go to our website to email us.
Listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program Entitled resting in grace. You can find us at Providence Baptist Church ma org. That's Providence Baptist Church ma org or even on sermon audio .com.
Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.
Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year-round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore. Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.
For generations Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word. An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily accessible.
Scores of notable Christian groups frequently planned conferences at Harvey Cedars like the Navigators InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org hcbible .org.
Call 609 -494 -5689 609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives. Welcome back. This is the concluding 25 minutes of our program with dr. Tony Costa the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary who is going to be speaking at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville Long Island at their Gospel of the Reformation celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and This is going to be held on Friday September 29th and Saturday September 30th at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island.
For more details go to wot church .com Wot church .com that stands for word of truth church .com Wot church .com or call Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island at 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 1 4 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 1 4.
And dr. Costa will also be Speaking at the Sunday morning worship service at 11 a .m. At Hope Reform Baptist Church of Medford Long Island, New York and the Hope Reform Baptist Church of Medford Long Island's website is Hope reformed li .net.
Hope reformed li .net. You can also call them at 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7 11 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7 11. And dr Costa what exactly are you going to be speaking on? I don't know if they've given you specific themes for your Your talks there or if you are deciding what you're speaking on yourself, but do you know yet what the themes are specifically?
Yes, it'll be on justification by faith or the formal in the formal cause of now going back to our theme.
Did the Reformers invent a new gospel? The primary thing that the Reformers were seeking to prove perhaps primarily from the book of Romans in the book of Galatians is the fact that We are saved by grace through faith alone and to add works as a Meritorious agent or cause of That salvation in any way even partially Any kind of addition to the complete and perfect work of Christ on Calvary is an abomination and a heresy.
They would. These are scriptural ideas and Even if you were to wrongly disagree with the Reformers on Those ideas that they gleaned from scripture. These are still.
Scriptural concepts. Am I right? Yeah. Well the speaking of novel. In fact, I brought this up during the.
The debate or the discussion with James Bogle the Roman Catholic attorney that participated on the Unbelievable broadcast with me the unbelievable radio program in the United Kingdom.
Brought up the fact that if you were going to bring up novel concepts that were absent for centuries before the Reformation you're talking about things like The assumption of Mary and papal infallibility which these two things Came about in the 19th and 20th centuries as dogma.
I'm not saying that they were never believed by anybody but they weren't declared as dogma until the 19th century which would be the the papal infallibility Dogma, I believe and then in 1950 the the dogma of the assumption of Mary was was declared Ex-cathedra, am I right on those dates?
Right, so this idea that.
Although the there are Teachings that would imply we are justified by faith alone in the Bible and that we cannot interpret it that way because Mother Church has not interpreted it that way that concept of an infallible magisterium who are the sole arbiters of What the Bible teaches this is not something that you can trace back through the centuries through the patristics all the way back to the life of Christ.
So basically when the Catholics will explain away their.
Their.
When they when they explain away the absence of their dogmas some of their dogmas in The earlier centuries of the church during the patristic age and so on. And of course, I believe there is a debate or a dividing line even amongst Roman Catholics about the development of doctrine.
But for them to say that the Reformers brought novel ideas Into the discussion during the 16th century. Ideas that were believed by a tiny handful of people according to them prior to the 16th century they're really like the the pot calling the kettle black in that area.
Because you know if they have the development of doctrine understanding Where things sprang up in much later centuries? That they really have no consistent and logical basis to make the claims Against the Reformers being novel that they do do that.
Now it isn't it interesting that there are church fathers that the Catholic Church the Roman Catholic Church upholds as their heroes.
There are Many of them that were they to be born in The 16 or the early part of the 16th century and be alive during the days of Trent. Many of them would be executed. Would they not. Because Many of the father is believed in things that were condemned at Right.
And it's it's interesting that really the only answer I have heard from Roman Catholic apologists to this discussion regarding The fathers that were they to be alive in the 16th century that would have been executed or condemned by Rome the only answer is that since those things were not declared as dogma before Trent those unique things that conflicted with Trent that many of the fathers believed They were safe.
And they would not. It should not be considered heretical. But it really that's really just an absurd kind of.
Circular reasoning isn't. If you remember that before they could deny the mass conception and they would be fine. And another thing that.
The the reverse appears to be true when the Catholic Church claims that all salvific areas that were brought into the Debate in the 16th century by the Reformers that these were novel ideas Not known among the church fathers, etc.
The reverse could be said about the Roman Catholic view of the Eucharist even though Luther and Calvin disagreed on the Eucharist. Isn't there? Understanding more in harmony with what we find amongst the church fathers than what Church of Rome believes?
Since Trent dogmatically in regard to transubstantiation. I Understand that there is a total absence of this understanding amongst the fathers. Especially in regard to worshiping the elements and so on.
That they use the term Presence the real presence but the Church of Rome don't they inflate the meaning beyond reality In regard to how the church fathers used the term real presence of Christ. Now the probably one of the most repeated Attacks or assaults against the Reformers and against Protestantism in general historic Protestantism Is against Sola Scriptura because they will claim the Roman Catholics will claim that the very thing that we say must be understood as our sole inerrant authority doesn't even contain a Declaration a God-breathed declaration that the Bible alone is our soul and inerrant authority.
How do you respond to the Roman Catholic claim, which is frequently made? Yes, and in fact to highlight a couple of these very important words in 2nd Timothy 3 17 That the man of God this is referring to the scriptures.
All scripture is is God breathed or breathed out by God. So that the man of God may be complete equipped for every good work and. So therefore if that is true and the Roman Catholic Church would believe along with us in the inerrancy of Scripture.
Then why isn't if every good work? If we are equipped for every good work from from the scriptures according to Paul and his letter to Timothy. Then therefore praying to Mary which according to Rome is a good work.
That should be in the scriptures, right? The worship of the elements of the Eucharist that should be in there all of the dogmas that The Council of Trent Anathematizes Protestants for not believing they should all be in there because they're supposed to be good works, right?
Well now I'd like you to just basically in the next three minutes or so Summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to the question.
Did the Reformers invent a new gospel? I think that you will agree. Amen.
Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all the important websites and contact information for instance So the Toronto Baptist Seminary website is TBS edu TBS for Toronto Baptist Seminary edu.
If you are interested in attending Both events in New York that where dr. Tony Costa will be speaking. The first of which is the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island go to WOT church .com WOT church .com which stands for word of truth church .com and the Hope Reform Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York that website is hope reformed li .net Hope reformed li .net.
Those are the two places where dr. Tony Costa will be speaking between September 29th and October 1st. And God willing I will be there with an iron sharpens iron radio exhibitors booth If you want to get some information and on the writings of the church fathers on the writings Or the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.
And the the book or should I say the three volume set in particular that you really should get a hold of in regarding to how the patristic evidence is Really strongly in favor of the Reformers in regard to sola scriptura the one of the the biggest areas of division between Catholics and Protestants Holy Scripture the ground and pillar of our faith is a three-volume set that I strongly recommend by William Webster and David T King go to CV BBS comm CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm and order that three-volume set you could also Purchase the Roman Catholic controversy by dr. James R white at a o a o m I n org a o m I n org or at CV BBS comm and Dr. Tony Costa.
Do you have anything to add to that as far as recommendation for reading? Okay, well I want to thank you so much for being a part of our program today. I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who wrote in questions and I think the Reverend Buzz Taylor for being my co-host today.
I hope you all the safe and blessed weekend and Lord's Day. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.