September 15, 2017 Show with Tony Costa on “Did The Reformers Invent a New Gospel?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Chris what an appropriate song that is to introduce my guest dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary who is my guest once again on iron sharpens iron radio. It's so great to have him back on the program.

We're going to be discussing a very important subject today because of the fact that we have a Reformation Day approaching. Today we are discussing did the Reformers invent a new gospel and we're also going to be talking about a conference that Dr. Costa will be speaking at on Long Island and also a morning worship service at a Reformed Baptist Church out there.

But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Dr. Tony Costa, I don't know if you noticed that was a Riva Derchy Roma playing in the background by Dean Martin. And I remember the first time I did that I had I was working for WMCA radio In Rutherford, New Jersey, and it was one of those occasions where I was filling in For our talk show host Andy Anderson and I was interviewing Richard Bennett.

Are you familiar with Richard Bennett? Yeah, former Roman Catholic priest who became a born-again believer and is now a Reformed Baptist. And by the way, our listeners should know that you should be keeping Richard in Your prayers as he continues to battle health issues a lot of it.

Because of his age and so on but I could remember even though Richard is very bold about the gospel he's very bold about the differences between Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity or biblical Christianity.

He still has a very genteel personality a very quiet Personality and I can remember after the show was over when he Finally had an opportunity to say something to me off the air about the music. He was like, oh brother I didn't want to say about that.

Oh, oh brother. I couldn't believe you did Being from Ireland of our listeners if they didn't pick up my fake Irish accent there. Well before we go into the heart, I'm sorry brother.

And.

You did say good. You did say a revered Archie Roma quite a while ago being a former Roman Catholic who converted to biblical Christianity, but Before we go into our topic at hand Why don't you give us a summarized version of your testimony?

I know that you're from a Portuguese family or at least a family of Portuguese Ethnicity and you were a Roman Catholic. Tell us something about your a testimony. And then After that happened, obviously you were drawn into the reformed faith.

Well, we are.

Those of us who know you are rejoicing that God has given The church at large such a precious gift in you brother because you certainly have blessed quite a number of people With your gifts and you are one of these rare individuals That although you are very gifted and quite a brilliant man of fountain of knowledge.

You are still a very deeply humble a brother in Christ and those combinations are rare and you know that a person has to really know what they're talking about has to be on their toes and be really a Very veritable Fountain of knowledge as I was saying.

If dr. James are white has you on standby to take his place at a debate? Because of the fact that he's feeling under the weather and is worried that he might not be able to participate as he did With you back in January at the last g3 conference when he was debating the president of Catholic answers.

By the way, I didn't do my normal opening today. Did I didn't use. I didn't. Well, I'm gonna do it just for the sake of continuity good afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening be alive streaming This is Chris Orns in your host of iron trip and Zion radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 15th day of September 2017. Now, I feel better. I Think that's the first time I think I ever forgot to do that.

Well, I have perhaps when we come back probably not the rest of the song. Well, I gotta hear that beginning a few more times, yeah when we come back from the Station breaks perhaps. That's what threw me off.

I did something out of the ordinary. But I was I don't know if you were aware of this dr. Costa, but I Was just recently contacted by Justin Briarley at the unbelievable radio program in the UK and he Invited me to Participate in an interview giving my testimony a special Reformation Day program where he wanted both sides To be involved in this program.

He had me give my testimony and he had a British attorney James Bogle Who is a former Protestant Who converted to Roman Catholicism? He gave his testimony as well what I did not know because I was never told beforehand that this was Going to be a debate as well, and I have never Participated personally as an actual debater in a formal sense in a live public sense and even though this was conversational style This is not really like a debate that you have like the ones you and dr White have participated and where they're of great length.

They are rigidly timed. They're moderated in a strict sense. This was not anything like that. It was a conversational debate.

But.

And I really enjoyed myself. I really enjoyed both Justin Briarley who I am pretty certain is a an evangelical Protestant and I even enjoyed James Bogle. He was a very nice individual.

But.

Without Giving the impression that I am insulting him because I that's not my intention, but he was basically giving all of the rote Catholic answers. Pardon the pun.

To to.

The issues of Protestantism things that if it were a lengthier debate rigidly timed and Where I was actually notified that it would be a debate. I Would have been able to easily document that his claims were false.

But one of the things that he said I During the debate is.

That.

If.

Martin Luther's gospel was true then Christianity would have been ushered into the world for the very first time in the 16th century because nobody other than perhaps a few tiny exceptions here and there that are insignificant to insignificant to really Discuss at great length the gospel of Martin Luther did not exist prior to his arrival and and prior to his After the nailing of the 95 theses on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg when he eventually Did become an actual Bible-believing Christian, I believe it was during the time he was translating Erasmus's Greek Bible into German.

I think that's when it occurred. Perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a really Absurd claim, isn't it that that Martin Luther? Invented this novel concept that no one ever believed before the 16th century.

Yes.

Isn't one of the reasons that the the Reformers were so successful in Spreading the word about the Reformation about the the gospel of the Bible that had been obscured and.

Buried.

Under centuries of sacramentalism and Idolatry and the true The truly labeled I should say inventions of men which the Church of Rome is a master at.

That.

One of the reasons they had such great success is that they not only appealed to Scripture of their primary proof of their beliefs And of course Sola Scriptura is one of the watchwords of the Reformation but they also were appealing to the church fathers to the patristic evidence that what they were talking about what they were teaching and preaching and proclaiming and writing about was not a Novelty it had precedent it had historic precedent in the church for centuries.

All right.

Well, I think that.

Although some of us Some of our listeners I should say might think when I ask very basic questions that it's really you know wasting time or something to have you define something that is is Fairly commonly known but it's it's it's it's a issue that is so Twisted and is so often Denied even if unconsciously and there are so many there are so many masquerades of the gospel That I think it is a good good point in our discussion right near the beginning here to define What is the biblical gospel?

Yes, and a lot of people today a lot of people who are ecumenically minded That would include people like Rick Warren and just a whole host of of people That believe that there are differences otherwise should I say they recognize the obvious fact that there are differences between Between the Protestant Reformers in the Church of Rome and Obviously including when I say the Protestant Reformers the heirs of the Reformation those who truly have carried forward through the centuries The biblical gospel that the Reformers uncovered.

They will say that yeah, well there are differences but they are really not that. They are not that catastrophic they are not that huge enormous or serious that they should be categorized as salvific differences and.

They.

Like for instance a Norman Geisler very.

Famous.

Very highly respected evangelical theologian philosopher. Used to be a frequent guest in the John Ankerberg program. Perhaps still is I'm not sure but author of many books. In fact one time Used to have very pleasant communication with our mutual friend.

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries even endorsed his book Dr. White's book the King James only controversy, but then when the issue of Calvinism really started to be more in the forefront the doctrines of the scripture in regarding To a total depravity unconditional election limited atonement irresistible grace and perseverance of the Saints then Dr. Geisler started to be more public about his disdain for these things.

And he even went so far To basically to basically soften the edges of the lines of demarcation between Truly historic and biblical Reformation theology and Roman Catholic theology by saying that the Church of Rome is not a False church with some truths.

It is a true church that happens to have some false teachings. Where do you stand on? Dr. Geisler's. Geisler's claim.

Yeah, and in fact.

From all we know I know that I keep repeating this a lot on this program but I think it's an important factor because of the rise of ecumenism amongst professedly conservative Christians humanism used to be the backyard exclusively of liberals and now many conservative or professedly conservative Christians and denominations have extended the olive branch to Roman Eastern Orthodoxy and because of the Moral issues that are Confronting us in society and they think that we would have strength in numbers by including them as our brothers in Christ thinking that those issues are more serious than the gospel itself, but the the Judaizers from for all we know they believed in many of the areas of The Apostles Creed, you know, they believed in the necessity of Having faith in Jesus Christ and Repenting and so forth.

From what we know because Paul doesn't criticize the Judaizers for anything other than their insistence upon Requiring circumcision for salvation. That was the only thing that we know of that. He was furious about So much so that he declared an anathema or a curse upon the Judaizers now.

Would you agree that it is likely since Paul is silent on all other issues. That just like we have things in common with Rome and the Eastern Church. That the Judaizers likely also had that same commonality other than The issue that actually nullified completely their gospel and that was circumcision.

And we're going to our first break right now if you'd like to join us. With a question of your own for dr.

Tony Costa on the theme we are discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel. Our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com chris Arnz and a gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country your residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. Let's say you disagree with your pastor on this. You don't want to identify yourself. Perhaps you're a Roman Catholic and you want to Critique something that dr. Costa is saying or something that I am saying, but you don't feel like drawing attention to your identity.

Well, we will accommodate you and let you remain anonymous. But if it's not a personal and private matter, please Give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

So don't go away. God willing. We're gonna be right back after these messages with dr. Tony Costa. One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is dr Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. We are discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel? And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris.

Arnzen at gmail .com. And please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. Before I go on to our interview I just want to remind you we just heard the Reverend Buzz Taylor reading the ad for The Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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In fact, he was in attendance at the debate. You participated in in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. With my friend Robert St. Genes the Roman Catholic apologist on the theme Mary sinner saved by grace or sinless Queen of Heaven.

Which is basically on the immaculate conception and perpetual sinlessness of Mary. The Roman Catholic dogma on those things and.

He.

Pastor George Jensen of the Enola First Church of God and Enola, Pennsylvania This was quite a critical and a an important event that he attended that you were involved in because of the fact it Erased completely all doubts that he had that the truth claims of Roman Catholicism had any Credibility it completely erased that a question in his mind and he knew he knew and now knows still that those are false claims in regard to the gospel and in regard to the history of these teachings and so on.

So he is very indebted to you and your your your participation in that debate and I am as well. I am very delighted with the the way that that The debate was handled and in spite of my friendship with Roberts and Genesee Obviously believed that he has a false gospel and he knows that he believes I have a false gospel.

So I am glad that truth clearly triumphs in that debate. But Pastor George Jensen of the Enola First Church of God and Enola, Pennsylvania says in his book Lustitia day and forgive me for butchering the Latin When I was an altar boy, it was after Vatican II and we didn't have Latin mass anymore but Alistair McGrath states for the first 350 years of the church her teaching on justification was inchoate and ill-defined and He also states furthermore the few occasions upon which a specific discussion on of justification can be found Generally involved no interpretation of the matter other than a mere paraphrase of a Pauline statement.

Justification was simply not a theological issue in the pre-augustinian tradition. Is Alistair McGrath Correct in what he is saying. If so, does this mean as some argue that the Reformers? Interpretation of the gospel is as equally valid as the remote as the Roman Catholic interpretation.

Assume what he means by that equally wrong. Yeah, and So, I know that this is not what McGrath is saying. But there are others using McGrath's words to claim that we cannot be certain of what the true gospel is.

If you could comment on that. Wow, that's some coincidence or providence.

Again that's why the app is that's why the Apostles Creed is does not talk about salvific issues in regarding to justification.

Well, thank you. Pastor George. Keep listening to iron trip and Zion radio and keep spreading the word about the program Among your congregation there in Enola, Pennsylvania and beyond and I look forward to you co-hosting the program once again.

So let's keep in touch. Thank you very much for the excellent question. We have Joe in Slovenia. Who says what a great topic just today while doing some research for dialogue in our church on topics concerning Roman Catholicism and true Christianity.

I discovered the Council of Orange in 529. I'm shocked that I had been basically ignorant of this very important council until now. Particularly I discovered Comparisons of the canons of the Council of Orange and the Council of Trent.

Have I been terribly negligent or are such comparisons of Orange and Trent fairly rare is. If so, why. The comparisons are fascinating and give irrefutable evidence. That Roman Catholicism is not consistent with historic Orthodox Christianity.

How do Roman Catholics explain away the diametrically opposed views of these two councils on? The errors of Pelagianism. Even though they deny that they both they do deny that because because they say they say that provenient grace.

Nullifies that charge against them, right? Now one of the things about Vatican to.

This is what I have heard for quite a while from my more conservative Slash traditionalist Roman Catholic friends. They will remind me when I bring up things like the the modern Catholic catechisms acceptance of Muslims Non-christian Jews and others as Adoring the the one true God along with Christians.

They will say well.

I.

Disagree with that just as much as you do and that's not dogma. Not everything in the Catholic catechism is dogma. There is much that is just as the the charge against Luther was that these were novel ideas and inventions of a disgruntled reformer they will say that that's the same thing going on here with the more liberal Catholics at Vatican to And ever since then they progressively growing more liberal Catholics that these are novel ideas.

They are not forever binding on the church like dogma that was declared a Trent for instance, so The Catholic Church isn't. Aren't they really just talking out of both sides of their mouths because on the one hand they have never renounced Trent and never can because of the House of Cards on papal infallibility Collapsing if they were to renounce it as as false And at the same time while they maintain Trent is dogma and valid They say things out of the other side of their mouth that that really Contradict Trent and my run on this.

Can count the second Vatican Council. The second Vatican Council, right?

Well, they will claim the more traditionalist Catholic will claim that the Vatican to is not not that everything in Vatican to is not binding, but they will claim that the Novel ideas that were absent before Vatican to are not dogma.

That's at least what I hear from my concern.

Reverend buzztail. I'm kind of with Joe here Joe from Slovenia. Because I'm just asking myself a question. How did I get along this long and not hear of the Council of Orange?

Could you tell me a little bit more about that? In fact, why don't you pick that up when we return from our midway break? Dr. Costa, I don't know if you heard Brethren buzz Taylor. He wants you to give us more details about the Council of Orange.

I think that Anita Bryant was present at that Council wasn't.

Anyway.

We're going to be Taking more of your questions as well. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away.

God willing. We'll be right back with dr Tony Costa and our theme did the Reformers invent a new gospel. I am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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Hi, I'm buzz Taylor frequent co-host with Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio. I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CV BBS. Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service?

Todd and Patty specialized in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

Since.

1987 the family-owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites. They make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly Much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic Heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CV bbs .com. Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence. As Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CV bbs .com.

That's CV bbs .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio.

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Well, welcome back. We are once again discussing Did the Reformers invent a new gospel with our guest? Dr Tony Gasta professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, but before I return to our discussion, I have some important announcements to make in regard to Invent events coming up one of which are actually two of which include the participation of our guest.

Dr Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. The first is the Word of Truth Church and Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship present the gospel of the Reformation a 500th anniversary celebration and dr Costa will be joined by a pastor Kayla bunch pastor Bruce Bennett and pastor Chris Pandolfi.