June 27, 2023 Show with A. M. Brewster on “The Doctrine of Emotions” (Part 2)

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

27th day of June 2023.

And today is day number two for our discussion on emotions, more specifically the

doctrine of emotions.

And our guest returning to conduct part two of this interview is someone who has

become a favorite in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listening audience, A .M. Brewster, president of

Evermind Ministries, a biblical counselor, author, podcaster, and conference speaker.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for part two of our discussion, A .M. Brewster.

Thank you so much.

I'm looking forward to it.

We got a great foundation laid last time, but the really fun, practical stuff is going to come in today, so I'm really excited

about the conversation.

Me too.

And once again, for the sake of our listeners who have not heard you yet on the program, let our listeners know about Evermind

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All righty then.

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Can you do a recap, please, of yesterday's program when we had a discussion of

part one on the doctrine of emotions?

Yeah, definitely.

We laid a good foundation, as I said before.

We talked about two main things.

I'm putting them into categories that are alliterated, not because it'll actually help us to remember, but

because, you know, that's what you're supposed to do.

So, the two things that we talked about first were the emotional discrepancies.

And that's the fact that in the English language and in most languages, emotions, the words that we

use to describe them oftentimes really shouldn't be used to describe them.

We talked about that feelings, the feeling words are used to describe feelings, to describe actual emotions,

to describe religion, to describe our thoughts.

And that confuses things like crazy.

In fact, the church is replete with wrong uses of these emotion

words, substituting them for thinking words, and the squishy understanding that we so often have when we

utilize these words that it really confuses things more often than not.

We know that in part because of our discussion last time about God and emotions.

Does God experience human emotion?

And we discussed the fact that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as spirits do not experience

the physiological chemical reaction that is pure emotion.

However, Jesus Christ in a human body would.

He does.

Obviously, God being omniscient knows exactly what emotions are and what they feel like.

But we have to be careful when we're communicating about God because God doesn't experience emotions the way we experience emotions.

One of the other issues that we talked about was the fact that, you know, when we see different words in scripture like joy, and peace, and

love, and anger, wrath, and we're thinking emotion, we're

probably thinking really less about what's actually being described there and more about forcing our own

ideas about the emotional aspects of those things onto the text.

We need to be careful with that.

And then we also talked about emotional descriptions.

We looked at the secular description.

We saw what it got right, but we also saw what was missing.

And as we worked through the scriptures to talk about the fact that from the perspective of the doctrine of emotion, that

emotion is a gift, it's a tool and a gauge, we realize that there are five general

phases or steps to an actual human emotion.

The first is that there's an experience, there's a stimulus.

That stimulus can be external or it can be internal.

Then there's an internal physiological response that happens, that's a

chemical reaction happening in our bodies, which then requires an internal

mental response, or what I would like to refer to as a spiritual response.

Really, this is the stage where we interpret what's going on in our bodies, and we're going to talk a lot more about that today because it's really,

this is the most practical thing that we can talk about.

And then we'll also talk about the external behavior then that comes from how we

interpret this physiological response.

And then the fifth step was kind of just a wrapping around back to the beginning.

All of that going on the inside of me oftentimes prompts and gives birth to other

physiological responses that require interpretation and correct action and so on and so forth.

So, that's what I call biblically accurate scientific description.

The key thing to walk away from all of that is this, what you feel and how you perceive it are two

different things.

And we're going to find that the secret, if I can put it that way, to being able to

understand what we're feeling and to be able to control what we're feeling is understanding how the perception side

of it works.

It's kind of a big recap.

Is there anything you wanted to touch a little bit more focused on from the recap, Chris?

No, I can't think of anything right now.

So, what's the next phase in the discussion you'd like to start with today?

Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about what I call emotional delusions.

And emotional delusions are, there are a lot of them, but there are kind of five that I want to focus on.

And I'll go through this one pretty quickly because really it's the next section, what I refer to as emotional dysfunctions, where

we start getting really practical.

Okay, so how do we, what do we do in these situations?

But before we do that, we'll talk about the delusions.

One of the delusions that we're fed in the world is that only you can know your feelings.

Now, I say that's a delusion because, yes, to a certain degree, you know, if I have adrenaline or something coursing through

my body, at that moment, I'm potentially the only one feeling it or I'm feeling it in the way that I'm feeling it.

You can't necessarily telepathically or whatever the case may be, you know, put your hand on my shoulder and experience the

same thing I'm experiencing.

But to make the observation that you can't understand what I'm feeling,

you can't know what it's like to be me, that's inaccurate.

Solomon tells us there's nothing new under the sun.

Really, the number of chemicals in the human body that make up the various chemical reactions that

produce the pure emotions that we have been discussing are very few.

And to believe that you are experiencing something that nobody else is or ever has experienced is

foolish.

If you communicate yourself well, any thinking mature Christian adult should be able to easily

understand how it is you're feeling.

So, don't believe the lie, the delusion that only you can know your feelings.

The only way that that happens is if you don't tell anybody about them, and then that's really more your fault than anyone else's.

The second one, though, and this is hugely important, is that only you can accurately

interpret your feelings.

This one is what gets us into a lot of trouble.

I'm going to talk a lot more about that a little bit later.

But this idea that only you can interpret your feelings, again, you can see a very man -centric

approach to all of these things.

And that's how the world, you know, views life.

Everything's about me.

It's focused here.

My eyeballs are rolled backward in my head.

I'm myopic.

I'm selfish.

Really, all I'm looking at is for me.

And it's convenient to tell people, you don't understand how I'm feeling, and only I can interpret my feelings

correctly.

You know, I'm feeling fear and you're telling me, no, it's not fear.

It's just an adrenaline rush or whatever the case may be.

Well, you can't know that because you're not me and only I can accurately interpret my feelings.

And tied closely with that is another delusion that you will always accurately interpret your

feelings.

That's another big one that's huge.

Like, you know, like you say, well, I'm, you know, I'm just shy, right?

And of course, there can't be any other answer to that because not only are you the only one who

can know what you feel, you're the only one who can interpret your feelings, and you will always accurately

interpret your feelings.

Therefore, if anyone says anything about your feelings different than you feel, they're obviously wrong.

That's not true.

It's not true.

And then two more real quick.

So, you're the only one who can know your feelings, interpret your feelings, and you will always interpret them accurately.

Those are the first three.

The next one is feelings are reality.

Feelings are reality.

Well, we all had this shared experience a little while back called the lockdowns.

I don't actually refer to it as COVID because it really had nothing to do with COVID in my personal belief.

Pete Slauson I agree with you.

Jared Polin.

With how we responded to all of that.

But here's something really interesting.

So, as of late, I'm going to read to you a news heading, all right?

It said this, think you have Omicron, but keep testing negative.

An expert says to trust your gut.

If you feel confident you have COVID, you probably have COVID.

And this was written by Fortune by something named Aaron Prater and is

actually a part of Fortune Magazine.

It's Fortune Well Magazine, so it's about our health.

And a similar one, you'll be very surprised where this one came from.

This was what it said in the article.

No, your body isn't gaslighting you.

If you're certain you're COVID positive, you probably are, regardless of what the test says.

Dr. Stuart Ray, Vice Chair of Medicine for Data Integrity and Analytics at Johns Hopkins

Department of Medicine, told Fortune on Tuesday, unquote.

This idea that what you feel is reality, even if

everything we have to test and everything we have to look at it says that it's not reality.

They say, well, Aaron, you're not a medical doctor.

You can't speak to that.

Okay, fine, we'll use a different one.

How about this idea that I'm not a man, I'm a woman.

I feel like a woman and my feelings, okay, I'm the only one who can know how I feel.

You don't know how I feel.

I'm going to accurately interpret my feelings.

You can't.

I'm going to always accurately interpret it, and my feelings are reality.

Therefore, if I feel like a woman, I am a woman.

If I feel like this, if I actually truly am a woman, and I have this being growing inside of my womb,

but I feel like it's not a person, and I feel like I can kill it, then I can.

By the way, Aaron, you should be very thankful that I like you, because I could do some interesting

damage to your ministry by editing this program, taking those

statements out of context.

Taking those statements out of context.

Yeah, I feel like a woman.

Man, oh man, I'd get myself into a lot of trouble, wouldn't I?

Thank you so much for liking me.

I appreciate that.

Oh, my word.

And the last one is, because feelings are reality, if we believe that delusion, eventually we're going to

believe that feelings are more important than anything else.

Some of you may have seen the headline recently, according to a British police officer,

while arresting a man, the British police officer said, someone has been caused anxiety

based on your social media post, and that is why you are being arrested.

That's not a joke.

That wasn't a hoax.

That was a real thing.

I saw it happening.

So, if you believe that only you can know your feelings, and that you can, you're the only one who can accurately interpret

your feelings, and that you will always accurately interpret your feelings, then feelings have to

be reality, and that they're going to become more important than anything else.

And it doesn't take us very long to look at the rest of the world and to realize that's exactly where we are as a people.

Feeling is king.

Emotion is king.

If I feel it, that's what it is.

I did a series called the, well, now I can't remember exactly what it is, the most difficult challenges, something like that's

not actually what it was called, of parenting, right?

The different challenges that you face as a parent.

And one of the very first things that we encounter is the fact that every human being, regardless of their

age, is looking for what I call security.

And security is a mix of two things, safety and satisfaction.

And the satisfaction side of things has a lot to do with how we feel.

A baby crying because it's hungry.

Yes, there's the quote -unquote emotional side of things, the pure emotion that might be running through the child's body, but the child also feels hungry.

They want to be satisfied.

And so, this idea that all human beings are pursuing satisfaction, pursuing safety,

is hugely a big part of why the world today, as they run from God, are becoming

these little control freaks trying to manage their world in such a way that they can hopefully

gain control over the events of their lives, and therefore, they can

feel what they want to feel.

They can be happy, they can be at peace, they can be content, and they don't have to feel scared, they don't have to feel depressed, unless, of course, they want to,

and then that's okay.

I'm not sure if you've ever been annoyed at something or feeling really down, someone tries to cheer

you up, and you're mad at them because you don't want to be cheered up.

At those times, we choose negative emotions, but most of the time, we like to run from those things.

Well, we do have a listener who has a question, and

it is an anonymous listener.

And the anonymous listener says, how do you

force yourself to become more emotional about things

when your spouse is very emotional and constantly complains that you

show lack of emotion even during a crisis?

It is often interpreted as if I don't care about what's happening, and that is not the case.

Yeah, and I'll say, first off, you know, I don't know you, I don't know the situation.

To be very fair, I mean, it's always possible that you could be responding incorrectly in the

situation.

However, you know, I've been in the situation you're in, and I'll just give everyone, obviously, the benefit of the doubt at this particular

moment and say that, yes, it's very possible that a person could be responding very accurately and correctly to a

situation.

They would appear to be lacking emotion, so they're not freaking out, they're not crying, they're not

angry.

Yeah, something like that.

And that person could completely be in the right, and yet there are more people in the room who are being more

sensitive, more emotional, and not necessarily in a good light, in a good way.

And it's very easy for those emotional people, we'll say, to criticize the more cool

-headed individual and to berate them for not, you know, being an unfeeling

monster or whatever the case may be.

I'm painting this in a very cliche way.

If anyone's sitting there thinking to themselves, yeah, I've been in that exact same situation, just know that this is, again, the world we live in.

I would say that, first of all, if we're berating another person,

then we're likely in the wrong.

We need to make certain that the thing that we're talking to them about, if we're trying to genuinely reprove and rebuke them, that we can point to the

scriptures and we can say, this is wrong because thus saith the Lord.

And because the Lord says this, you need to be acting in a certain way.

But you're not going to find anywhere in the scripture where God commands us to feel something with the exception of the

verses we pointed out last time about weeping with those who weep and so on and so forth, or

rejoicing with those who rejoice.

So, it's going to be very hard from a biblical perspective for somebody to truly argue that you need to be more

emotional.

I would say it's really going to be impossible without, again, a misunderstanding of these

ideas in the English language as well as the biblical concepts tied to them.

However, we do see in scripture that our emotions, of course, can be influenced,

our behavior can be influenced by our emotions, but our emotions can also be influenced by our behavior.

And I really do believe that the deeper we love somebody, biblically speaking,

that the deeper our affection for them, the deeper our emotional responses will be

around them.

Now, this is not going to be true across the board, but I'm actually a very emotional individual.

However, most people who know me casually would say that I am not,

not really a very emotional individual.

I can keep a very cool head in situations, and they just tend to see me as kind of this rock.

And I've been accused by many people of being a Vulcan or a robot or a stone,

and it's, I will say categorically that that's not true.

I would say that by God's grace, most of the time, the reality is I've learned to control my emotions.

And that's really what I want for all of us.

And I believe God wants for all people, all of his people in particular, to be able to, like everything else, control what we

say and control what we do, also control what we feel because as we talked about last time, emotions are a tool

that God wants us to use to glorify him.

And if our emotional responses aren't glorifying him, he's not pleased.

So, if I could just say one more thing to your question, the bigger conversation that needs to

be had is, you know, what does God require in this situation?

He requires us to speak truth and love, okay?

If that is happening, then likely things are going well.

And if one person is more emotional than another, that's not necessarily good or bad, and we're going to talk

about that here soon.

I mean, some pure emotions are just that and they're not inherently bad, but that doesn't

require that everyone else in the room feel the exact same way.

Yeah, I can even remember having an argument with my late wife,

and it was like an identical situation to at least what the listener was

revealing, where there was something important going on, like a negative

thing, and I don't remember what it was.

But my wife was complaining, you know, you're just sitting there expressionless, like this doesn't

concern you.

I said, would you be happier and feel more at peace if I was in a fetal

position on the floor.

Rocking back and forth and crying?

And you know, the reality is sometimes they would.

People like that.

I'm not saying your wife would, but here's one thing that I know.

You really think that most women would be happy to see their husband like that?

I'd like to think not, no, but here's what I meant by that.

So, there have been many times, and I'm not going to betray the individuals about whom I'm speaking, but there have been many times I'm in conversations with

different individuals, and I've been very cool headed, and I'm just speaking truth, speaking truth, speaking truth, and it's

frustrating, it's bothering them.

They don't want to hear the truth potentially, or they don't like the way the truth is being communicated.

But if I were to tip my hat, my tip my hand, and I were to start being emotional,

either because I'm not controlling my emotions the way I should, and my emotions are being motivated by something negative,

or sometimes, and yes, I'm going to admit that I've done this on purpose as a way to manipulate, which

is a sin, and I've also done this on purpose as a way to test my theory, but in any of

those situations, what's funny is that when I start making the same arguments, or sometimes worse arguments, but now I'm all

emotional, what's interesting is that the other person will oftentimes respond

differently.

Well, they see how emotional I am, it's like, oh, well, this is really important to them.

You know, it's strange, like, when you don't respond, or like lose control of your emotions, like so many people

do, there's this weird thing that goes on in people where they look at you like something's wrong, and that bothers them deep

inside.

Again, I'm not saying that your wife would have wanted that, but in a way, I do believe, and I've seen it on a number of occasions,

that if, and I'm not saying that we should, but if we were, whether the husband or the

wife, to have a crack and to start, you know, being more emotional, I

think in a way, they almost would prefer that because it seems so strange to them that you're not.

And by the way, I do want to say this while we're on the topic, the old stereotype that women are more emotional than men

really is scientifically, improbably, not impossible, but it's inaccurate.

The reality is that's a stereotype that's been created based off of two primary concepts.

Yes, when a woman is pregnant, and when a woman is experiencing her regular cycles, there are chemical reactions

going on inside of her that aren't going on in men, okay?

So, yes, to that degree, that's there.

But to say that men are less emotional than women or vice versa is

inaccurate, 100 across the board inaccurate.

We experience our emotions in different ways, we communicate them in different ways, but to say that women are more emotional

is not true, actually, factually.

However, as a culture, we've said that line so many times, that's become a self -fulfilling prophecy.

And we started to create this idea that men weren't supposed to cry,

right?

And so, these men were trying to, you know, man up and not let a tear roll down, but women were given free

reign to express their emotions in a way that men weren't because, well, that's just how women are, is what we said.

And so, what's really happened here is the idea that we've kicked the door open and we've created our culture, which is what we

always do.

We're not products of our culture, so much as we, as a people, we create our culture.

What we've done is we've created a society up until recently, I think things are starting to change, obviously, that the

different sexuality and gender movements and things going on, you know, this idea of men being

tough is considered toxic and stuff like that.

But the point I'm trying to make is that when we strip all those cultural things away and we look at the scriptures, we do not

find anywhere in scripture that gives us the impression that women are inherently more emotional than men.

Because to the same degree that, you know, we see that, you know, women are the weaker vessels, which, by the

way, there's open, there's a lot of ways to interpret that and accurately.

But there's also, we see that Jesus weeping, right?

So, we have to be careful when we get this idea that men are less emotional than.

Women and so on and so forth.

Okay, we have to go to our first commercial break.

If you have a question for A .M. Brewster, send it to chrisorenson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages.

With more of A .M. Brewster.

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We're back with A .M. Brewster in our discussion of the doctrine of emotions.

If you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen

at gmail .com.

I just wanted to say that something that you said earlier actually enforced

what I said yesterday during part one of our discussion, where

I said that an emotional response from

congregations to our Lord in praise and thanksgiving and

worshiping him is a sign how

much we love the Lord, and how excited that we are, and how grateful we are.

But we always have to be careful not to think we are experts

on how to determine

someone's emotion, because people are different.

Human beings are different in the way that they express their emotion.

So I just wanted to bring that up again, because very often

the Reformed community is chastised as being

devoid of emotion in their worship, and sometimes that is true.

But sometimes people who are used to a very energetic worship service,

in fact, tragically even to the extreme of appearing as an insane asylum or a circus,

when they walk into a more organized, less

chaotic, a less free -for -all atmosphere of a

typical Reformed worship service, they are taken aback because they've never experienced that before, and they wrongly

think that the Holy Spirit isn't present, and they wrongly think that these people have no emotion.

So I just thought I'd throw that.

Out there.

Yeah, really good observation.

That's definitely something that happens, and it happens far too often.

Somebody once described a service at a former church I went to as being sterile,

and it was in part because of exactly what you're talking about there.

I would say, though, that regardless of what side of the spectrum you fall on, if you walk into a

situation and you're more bothered by the fact that the emotional responses around you are

not like yours, then you are really the

primary motivating factors behind that, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

It's not about whether or not the emotional responses of the people around me are like mine, it's whether or not their response

and my response is following a line with reality.

And with that said, I want to really get into this last main point that I want to make and really be able to spend some good time

on this.

I knew we were going to need two parts, and Lord willing, we can get through all of it today.

But this last category, I don't really like the word because it reeks too much with pop

psychology.

You know, we talked about emotional discrepancies and descriptions, then we talked about

delusions, and now we're going to talk about dysfunctions.

But when we talk about something like a dysfunction, it definitely gives us the feeling in our culture that this is something

that, yes, I'm aware that I just used the word, it gives us the feeling, it causes us to think

that we're talking about something that's a physiological dysfunction that this person is not

capable of controlling.

But really, to a dysfunction is actually something that's just not functioning the right way.

And so, there are four that I want to talk through, okay?

Four.

And I'm now switching from my D alliteration to I's, and I'm going to talk about

four main things.

Emotional, what I'm calling emotional illness, and yes, I will say that that's the phrase I hate the most.

I wish, I want to repackage it in a different way, but I'll explain myself when we get there.

Emotional illness, emotional interpretation, emotional incongruity,

and emotional instability.

These are the, at the top, these are the emotional dysfunctions, where our emotions and something is not

functioning the way it should be functioning as we experience whatever's going on in

our lives.

And this, as a biblical counselor, as a friend, as a discipler and a teacher, these are the things I'm constantly dealing with.

So, a lot of times, and again, I want everyone to know, as a biblical counselor, I am a certified through the American Association of

Certified Biblical Counselors, we take a very strong stance on the sufficiency of scripture,

that we do not need pop psychology, we do not need man's ideas about what is wrong with the

world and how to fix it, we need God's.

He is the creator and he tells us in his word, he gives us everything that we need for life and godliness, okay?

So, that is across the board true.

And nothing I'm going to say now is going to contradict that fact.

So, let me explain what I mean by emotional illness.

There are legitimate physical illnesses that can cause

incongruous or unstable feelings in our bodies.

A couple right off the top of my head are thyroid issues, specifically also

a fungal infection called candida.

In fact, even we mentioned COVID earlier, COVID had a very interesting facet to it, especially certain strains or

whatever the case may be, that had a very significant chemical

effect on our bodies.

And let's be honest, everything does.

Stressors and pressures and different experiences that we have had these effects on us.

And so, there are some things, diabetes, that's another one.

A person who has diabetes who is having blood sugar issues can have other chemicals

pumping through their body, causing them to feel a pure emotion, a pure feeling, causing them to feel in

certain ways.

And those things are not inherently sinful.

And let me just say right off the bat, a person could feel anxious, feel depressed, feel

exhilarated even, and have it be something that is directly related to a physical

illness, an actual physical, biological, physiological problem.

And these things are neither right nor wrong.

They're just the reality of living in a broken, fallen world.

Again, the problem is, and I mentioned this last time, it bears repeating, the issue is when we say we recognize the fact that there is a

facet to depression or anxiety that is biological that

we have no control over, there are people who just accept the fact that any depression,

any anxiety, all of it is all physical, you have no control over it, it's not a sin.

Well, then there's other people who say, well, no, and Bible's clear, anxiety and depression, that would be a sin.

And those people are right too.

And the reality is to be able to parse out what's going on.

So, let me give you an example.

One of the first times this happened to me, the very first time I ever experienced a panic attack, if you could call it that, I was sitting in

the basement of my house, I won't give you all the details, but the short of it is I just had this massive panic attack.

This overwhelming anxiety, feeling of anxiety is pumping through my chest.

And I stopped and I went through the checklist, like, what is wrong with me?

Like, I wasn't watching a scary movie, the lights were all on, I mean, I was going through like, okay, did I, you know, what is,

I just called my wife, make sure everything was okay.

I went through the list and there was nothing that I should have, nothing I should have been afraid of.

Well, I ended up calling my mom, like a good son, I called my mom and said, what is going on with me?

And she had me do a simple test and I did this test and this test confirmed, it was later confirmed by a doctor that I had

a fungal overgrowth in my body called candida.

And one of the many side effects of candida is that it can cause a feeling in your chest and your heart

kind of range of what oftentimes people interpret as being anxiety.

Was it anxiety?

Was I actually afraid?

No, I wasn't.

I was experiencing a similar chemical reaction as what I might experience if I were to be surprised and were to

jump out at me or if I were to see something that I viewed as dangerous.

But those things weren't actually happening.

It was just a similar chemical reaction that, you know, when we get to the next step, the next step is really important

that in that moment, my mind was interpreting as anxiety.

Same thing happened or similar thing happened when I had COVID.

The second time I got COVID, there was a time when I was experiencing what felt

like significant depression, literally just a pressing down, a

darkness on me.

And it wasn't related to sinful thinking or anything like that.

It was tied to this virus pumping through my system.

The question is, how am I going to respond to those things?

Because yes, I could feel that with candida.

I could feel that with COVID and not be sinning.

Or I could very easily respond the wrong way to those experiences and all of a sudden now

be sinning in my responses.

And that moves us to the second one.

Emotional illness is just a pure physical problem in my body that is

happening because of some breakdown in my system.

And by the way, the best way to take.

Care of that is to get medical help.

Is candida a temporary issue or is that somebody's lifelong.

Plague?

No, it's kind of like strep or staph infection.

Staphylococcus is in your body.

And when it's at the right levels, it's okay.

But when there's too much of it, you have a staph infection.

Candida is very similar.

It's in your system.

It's part of it.

And when you give an overgrowth, you need to work really hard to get it back into the right levels and then you're okay.

Does it revisit to the same person?

Yeah.

Well, for the same reasons.

Candida is a pretty simple one.

You're eating too much sugar.

You have an unhealthy diet.

That's one way to really feed the candida in your body.

So yeah, you can have it coming back over time for sure.

I know people that suffer from panic attacks and I'm wondering if that

is the cause of it.

It could be because it's far more prevalent than most people think.

And that was going to lead me to this next thing I was going to say, that when you go to a doctor and you say, doctor, I'm having a

panic attack and this is how I'm feeling.

And all they do is prescribe you a medication that's going to manipulate the

chemicals in your body so that you don't feel that way.

That's like putting a band aid on a cancer patient.

You want a doctor who's going to help you figure out why you're feeling that way.

Not just throw medication at you like an antidepressant if you're feeling depressed or whatever the case may be.

What you want is someone who's going to say, well, you know, you shouldn't be feeling that way.

So let's see if there's any physical reason.

I know exactly why I feel that way when I see the doctor.

It's when he hands me the bill.

Yeah, that can happen.

I'm feeling very depressed right now about that.

My mom just texted me.

She's watching or listening to this right now and she also sent me the one word antibiotics.

She can be sometimes cryptic in her writing and I'm not sure if she said antibiotics,

whether that was something that could cause issues, which I believe it can or in how we feel or how

to treat it.

She'll send over a follow -up text clarifying herself, no doubt in a minute when she hears what just happened.

But you want to find a doctor who's going to help you actually treat if you truly have an emotional illness.

Again, I hate that term the way I and I came up with it, but if you're truly having an emotional illness, you need to

find somebody who's going to help you treat the actual physical problem.

And as a biblical counselor, it's very important to me that my counselee be healthy.

That's important anyway.

It's important as they steward their bodies.

It's important also for them to be able to function in a Christ -honoring way.

I compare it to carrying a backpack.

You take a child and you send them onto a playground, they'll play and play and play for hours.

You take that same child who's well -rested and has had a good meal, and you put a 20 -pound backpack on their back, and it won't be

long that they can it won't be long before they are just going to be tired out and not

having fun anymore and whining and wanting to go home.

And oftentimes when we have these physical issues where we are where

we're sick or our bodies are broken down and it's like we're carrying this huge weight, it makes it harder

to respond well.

Not impossible.

Please understand.

God promises there's always a way to escape temptation.

We never have to sin because of what's going on in our bodies.

I don't care what's wrong with you.

I don't care how terminal the diagnosis is.

I don't care how painful it is.

You do not have to sin in your illness, okay?

Period.

However, there's obviously wisdom in pursuing the best health that we can.

How much time do we have, Chris, before the next break?

I think we should go to our next break right now, and this way I don't have to interrupt you.

Sounds good.

And always keep in mind, folks, that we ask of you to be patient during the middle break because Grace

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After these messages.

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Before I return to my guest, A .M. Brewster, and our discussion

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So please mark your calendars for September 15th, 16th, and 17th, and get there any way

you can by plane, train, or automobile.

We would love to see you there, and there will be more details shortly provided at

irontreppanzionradio .com and also at the website of our friends

at Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society, midatlanticreformation .org,

midatlanticreformation .org, and also futureofchristendom .org,

futureofchristendom .org.

Last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid

church, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, I may be able to help you find a church

that fits that description, as I have already done with many people spanning the globe in the Iron

Treppanzion Radio audience.

So if you are in that circumstance of not having a biblically faithful church that you're aware of

near you, please send me an email, no matter where on the planet you live, to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put

I Need a Church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to our guest A .M. Brewster.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

And you asked if we had time to continue your train of thought before the break, but we

didn't.

So why don't you pick up where we left off there, Aaron?

Yeah, so before the break, we were talking.

About this idea of what I'm calling under duress emotional illness, lest we fall

to the wrong pop psychology understanding that I have a

mental disorder, an emotional illness type of a thing, or a mental illness.

I'm talking about an actual biological physiological illness that happens to have an impact on

our pure emotions, the chemical processes in our bodies.

And I was transitioning to the next point, which is really the linchpin.

It's the key for us in this discussion.

And it had to do with, I wanted to use the kind of vault off of what I was talking about with my issue with COVID where

I was feeling depressed.

And so, there I am.

And I'll tell you what, man, it was rough.

There came a time where I thought to myself, you know what, man, I completely understand suicide at this point.

I get it.

Like, people who, yeah, people, you know, people who don't know the Lord, who are

closer in their homes, they're locked down, they can't see their family members, they're losing their jobs, they're sick, they're

afraid of losing their freedoms, they're afraid of losing all this other kind of stuff.

And they feel the way they feel because of what the virus was doing to their

bodies.

I totally get why there was an increase in suicide during that time.

Same reason that there's an increase in suicide, you know, after holidays and things like that, there's that massive letdown.

Now, I wasn't tempted to suicide in that moment, but I understood it.

I got it.

This is how people are feeling and they are feeling hopeless because they

don't have, they're despairing because they don't see what God is trying to do through the situation.

It made sense to me because of how I was feeling.

Now, by God's grace, there was a lot of self -counseling going on.

I had to speak truth to myself.

I had to focus on what was really going on.

Aaron, you're not feeling hopeless and despairing.

You're feeling this way because of what's going on with your body.

Focus on truth.

What is the truth?

In the Suffering Well online course that you can access in the Evermind app,

we talk a lot about this idea of, I just kind of lost my train of thought there, kind of

derailed real quick.

We talk about the purpose of suffering, the God of suffering, and the purpose of suffering, and the

importance of speaking that truth to ourselves and believing that truth.

And so, I recognize the fact that, you know, God has allowed this into my life and his providence to give

him glory and to be for my good.

And though I might not see all of it, all of the things that he's doing, I can know for certain because the Bible tells me that from James

2 and Romans 8 and various other passages, that God wants to use this circumstance to

increase my faith, to mature me, to grow me, and help me to be more conformed to the image of Christ.

That's why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling right now with this sickness or this illness or this relational struggle in my life, whatever

the case may be.

I had to speak truth to myself.

I had to interpret my emotion correctly because if I had, like when I had Candida,

and I had that flush of adrenaline in my chest because of it, if I had chosen to interpret that in

a different way, rather than fear, I would have responded in a different way, I would have acted differently.

And if I chose to interpret the feelings I was experiencing during COVID as hopelessness and

despair, and oh, my life is terrible, start lying to myself, start focusing on

the delusions and start focusing on things that aren't true, then what I'm doing is I'm taking an emotional

experience of depression, which is legitimate because it's just the chemical reaction, those chemicals, it's not

really depression, it's just the chemical response in my body, but now I'm interpreting it in a certain light

that's not true, which is then tempting me to believe things that are not true, and then

it's, I'm calling God a liar, I'm not participating with him in this

situation because, you know, all things work together for good to those who love God and called according to his purpose, I'm not working according to his purposes and I'm

believing a lie, and so, therefore, I'm multiplying the feelings of depression that I have and now this

base chemical response in me, I'm now defining it as hopelessness and

despair and I'm calling God a liar and this is where we start to get into trouble and that's where that type of

depression is sinful, it's wrong, you should never feel that way, you should never get to that point and no sickness is going to

make you get to that point, that's the point that we get to when we don't do this next thing right.

It's called emotional interpretation.

Emotions are not merely an objective physiological reality.

Every emotion, and we mentioned this last time, we kind of spoiled it last time, every emotion is interpreted by the one

experiencing the motion.

We talked about this in regard to adrenaline, you have two people on a roller coaster, one person is feeling, they interpret it as dread

what they're feeling, and the other person interprets the exact same chemical response in their body as

exhilaration.

The one person hates the feeling in their body, the other person loves that feeling in their body and so, therefore, they

both respond very different.

One's crying and screaming, the other one's whooping and hollering with their hands up in the air.

Same chemical reaction, very different response.

And so, then again, like I said before, adrenaline is a major player in how we feel when we're physically attracted to

somebody, it's also a major player when we're angry, okay?

So, interpreting it correctly is really, really important.

Well, how are we supposed to interpret it?

How am I supposed to know how I'm supposed to respond to this feeling that I'm having

right now?

Well, that goes into the next one, emotional incongruity.

Incongruity.

Incongruous emotions are those that contradict God's plan.

This goes back to what we talked about last time about emotion being a gauge.

When we talked about that, if you weren't, didn't follow that show, if my emotions, if I'm feeling

depressed when God says I should be feeling, I should be experiencing happiness or I should be experiencing a state of

joy, then at that moment, there's, even then, even then as I tried really hard to be careful

with my vocabulary, I allowed myself to use joy in a feelings type way that really I didn't intend to

use it.

Because again, as I've said, you can be joyful even when you're feeling the chemical

process in your body that oftentimes is interpreted as depression.

I did that when I had COVID.

But the point I was trying to make is that if the Bible says I should be feeling happy and I feel sad, that indicates that

there's a problem.

If the Bible says I should be feeling sad, and I'm feeling happy, that indicates that there's a problem.

That's an incongruity in my emotions.

So, if we're depressed when God says that we should have joy, if we're anxious when God says we should be at peace, if we're happy when God says

we should be grieved, we're experiencing emotional incongruity.

And that's where often one of the things that's going to be a big part of the ability to interpret correctly

what I'm feeling.

So, as I was sitting there on the couch in my basement having this

feeling flushing through my body, I, at that moment, needed to figure it out.

And that's why I went through the checklist.

Is there anything that I really should be afraid of?

Is it the surrounding environment?

Is it what I'm watching on TV?

Is it something wrong with my wife?

Am I concerned about work?

You know, I'm going through the list.

There's nothing legitimate to fear.

There's nothing danger in front of me.

So, therefore, I'm not feeling fear.

This isn't fear.

It'd be wrong for me to interpret it as fear.

I knew I wasn't angry at anything.

That was pretty easy to figure out.

And I could tell that I wasn't exhilarated.

I wasn't watching something that really got my adrenaline going and got me all super excited.

I actually don't remember what I was watching.

I need to remember that because what I was watching wasn't scary.

It wasn't exciting.

I don't know why I was wasting my time on it.

But I wasn't experiencing anything like that.

So, I had to figure out what it was.

And really, when it came right down to it, I wasn't angry.

I wasn't exhilarated.

I wasn't depressed.

I wasn't anxious.

I was just having this flush of adrenaline in my system because of the fungal infection.

I keep going back to that emotional illness.

I want to say, though, this happens, too, even when that's not a factor.

If I'm as healthy as a horse, one of my wife's and my favorite TV shows,

Stargate in Atlantis.

Well, all of the Stargates, really, they did it.

Even all the space age type of sitcoms and things like that or TV shows.

You go to the doctor and everyone's in perfect health, right?

You're in perfect health.

If you're actually in a place of perfect health and so you're not experiencing emotional illness of any kind

whatsoever, your emotion is going to come from someplace.

And where it's going to come from is that external or internal stimuli, stimulus, where I am now having to interpret

the situation.

So, a good example of that is I'm a young person and I am in the public school system

and I know that God wants me to be a shining light

in that public school system, okay?

But I look at this, how I'm going to interpret that situation is going to produce

certain chemical responses in my body.

If I interpret this as I'm excited about this, this is awesome.

God is giving me everything that I need for light and godliness.

I can walk into the school and I can be a shining light.

And even if they hate me for it, I can rejoice and be glad because if they persecute me for this, they did the same thing to the

prophets who came before me.

Praise God for this opportunity.

Walk in there with my head held high.

I get that adrenaline rush as I step forward into that situation to be that salt and light in that school.

That adrenaline rush is going to come from what I'm focused on and I'm going to interpret that adrenaline rush in the

right way.

Obviously, you can imagine the flip side.

I'm going to the situation, oh, this is going to be so awkward and people are going to think I'm weird and people aren't going to like me and I'm going to, who

knows what they'll call me and they might do unkind things to me and now I'm getting that adrenaline

rush and I'm interpreting it now as fear.

And that adrenaline rush came in both circumstances because of what I was thinking, how I was viewing the

situation.

This is a huge part of what Paul teaches us in Philippians 4, a passage I go to quite

frequently when I'm working with individuals, regardless of what emotional

experience they're having.

First of all, I need to choose to rejoice in the Lord.

That's what the first person did.

They also needed to let their gentle spirit be known to all men, okay?

They had to go into that and say, I need to do what's best for my classmates, what's best for my teachers because the Lord

is near and he's left me on this earth to be salt and light.

And if I'm anxious at all, I need to realize that I'm supposed to be anxious for nothing, okay?

This is not anxiety that grows from an actual physical illness, this is anxiety comes from thinking incorrectly.

And so, what I'm supposed to do, take it to God in prayer and supplication with thanksgiving and then I'm told

that the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard my heart and my mind and Christ Jesus will guard it like

a group of soldiers surrounding my heart.

And really, we know from the scriptures, my heart there is referring to my mind, referring to that core of my being.

And then verse 8 comes in and says that we need to think correctly.

I need to go into this situation thinking what is true and honorable and right and pure and lovely and good

repute and excellent and praiseworthy.

I need to dwell, I need to meditate on those things.

And he goes on to say, everything that you've learned and received and heard and seen in me, you need to practice these

things.

You need to obey, basically.

He says, you need to think right, you need to obey.

And then the God of peace will be with you.

So, even if you're having an emotionally distressing situation in your life where the chemicals are flowing either because of a sickness or

because of some pressures on the outside, I can still be at peace.

But even if I'm not experiencing those things that are outside of my control, I'm just walking into a situation, when I'm

acting right and I'm thinking right, I will feel right and I'll interpret what happens next

correctly.

And by the way, we know that adrenaline responses oftentimes decrease, you know, that first time speaker getting up,

man, they're shaking like crazy because of the adrenaline flowing through their bodies, but a seasoned performer or public speaker can get up and

they'll have a little bit of butterflies, but it goes away pretty quickly.

So, again, we start to have better control over what we're experiencing.

And the last one, I won't spend a lot of time on, I definitely want to answer questions, but the last one is emotional instability.

This is where you may be experiencing what could be correctly considered a right

physiological response.

You know, you're on a roller coaster and you're like, yay, you're having a great time, but

you don't come down from that high, it just stays.

You might be experiencing an appropriate sadness in a situation, but like we

talked about last time, it doesn't end when it's supposed to or it's bigger than what

seems appropriate even to you and there's this instability.

The emotion may contradict or agree with God's plan when there's instability, but it's

overwhelming, it feels like it's out of control.

That's what we're talking about when we're talking about emotional instability that, again, can wrap back to emotional illness and

be because of a physiological issue, but it can also wrap back to wrong interpretation.

Again, like I said, when we're experiencing something and we respond to it sinfully, it doesn't add to our problems,

it multiplies it.

And sometimes our instability in our emotions comes from the fact that we've gotten

completely out of control, out of self -control, out of spirit control, and we are just multiplying emotion upon

emotion and responding the wrong way to them in our interpretation.

So, I want to turn it back to you, Chris, here in a minute, especially answer any questions if they've come up, but just kind of put a fine point on this and tie a

bow.

The key to all of this is how I'm going to interpret what I'm feeling, but also how I'm

going to interpret the stimulus, this experience in my life.

What does God say about it?

What is true about the physical experience I'm having right now?

How does God want me to respond to this situation?

And every single time we do that, every single time we focus on God, the

fulfillment of Isaiah comes into us, and those who anchor our minds on God, he keeps us in

perfect peace because our minds are fixed on him and because we trust in him.

And that's going to be the goal in every situation.

Pete.

By the way, that verse of scripture was what the Lord used

to prevent my dear friend Fern Hill, my friend Fern Hill, who is now

in heaven for eternity.

She and her husband, Jerry, were founders of the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch, a home

for orphans and homeless children in Riverhead, Long Island.

And it's named after their son, Timothy, who I think somewhere in the

neighborhood of 40 years ago was killed in a tragic accident

when he was 12 or 13, riding his bicycle to school.

He was hit by a truck and killed.

And that text is what Fern—God immediately transported her

mind to that text when she got the news.

And that helped her from not completely falling apart.

So….

Jared.

And just for the people who are uncertain, it's Isaiah 26, 3. 26, 3 and 4, actually, the

steadfast of mind you will keep in perfect peace because he, referring to the

one who is the steadfast of mind, he trusts in you.

And then verse 4 says, trust in the Lord forever.

Trusting is a choice to think correctly and to respond correctly to the

situation.

Trust in the Lord forever, for in God the Lord we have an everlasting rock, that

picture of not just the actual position that we're in with God,

but also that idea of that steadfast of mind, that peace, that surety, that calmness

that comes from trusting in the Lord.

And what's really interesting is the very next verse says this, for he, referring to God, has brought low

those who dwell on high, the unassailable city.

He lays it low.

He's talking about people here who do not have a relationship with him.

And this idea of being brought low is a Hebrew word that oftentimes has the idea of

despairing, okay?

So, the people who do not trust in God and the steadfast of mind who are anchored on him,

they are the ones that are in a position that they're potentially going to be brought low and be in a position of

despair because they're not in the right relationship with God.

If anybody, by the way, wants to hear my interviews with Jerry and Fern Hill, and in particular

my very last interview with Fern before she was taken home to glory,

just go to the ironsharpensironradio .com website and in the search engine type in Fern Hill.

You can even just type in Hill to get the interviews with both Jerry and Fern, or

you could type in Timothy Hill Children's Ranch.

And Fern Hill is just coincidentally named after,

well, sharing the name of the Dylan Thomas poem.

It's not any connection.

She had the married name Hill with no connection to her birth last

name, and so there was no intentional connection to that poem when she was named.

We have an anonymous listener who says, I'm sorry if you've already covered this, but I'm

just tuning in for the first time now.

I have a friend who is very much involved in yoga,

and she swears by yoga saying that it totally changes her frame of mind and

relaxes her, lowers her high blood pressure and all kinds

of benefits.

I know that yoga has its roots in paganism, but this

friend swears that she does not practice yoga with any kind of

religious connection, especially not to paganism or the occult.

Can somebody be involved in something like that just because in their mind they are

doing something innocent even though in its root it has pagan or occultic

heritage?

It's a question.

I encounter quite frequently.

We could dedicate hours and hours of interviews to this, and maybe in the future Chris and I will if we really want to

crack open that can of worms.

But I want to simplify it simply by saying this, that

yoga is a series of movements that has been shown to scientifically

and medically when done in appropriate ways have beneficial

physiological responses.

In a similar sense, I've studied the martial arts for over 30 years, and in a similar sense, how you learn to

control your body.

There's a big emphasis in the martial arts as well as in yoga and things like that, tai chi and stuff about

controlling your mind.

For the Christian, learning to control what they're thinking about, learning to control their movements, to control the

beating of their heart and their breath rate and all that, there's a significant value to that.

To be honest, the same pagan religions that gave us yoga

to a large degree also gave us tea.

How they plant their rice fields, how they stirred and made their tea was a deeply religious

experience for these individuals.

And I would not say that that should produce in us a desire to stay away from rice and tea and yoga and the

martial arts, but what it should do is it should actually be a challenge to us.

Are we as Christians making everything in our lives so deeply religious?

Because the reality is we don't.

We watch our sporting events and we eat our food and we have our barbecues and we live our

lives for self far too often, not giving a thought to how we can glorify God in this situation.

So, yes, I believe that your friend can glorify God by doing the exercises, the stretches, and

the things like that that are in yoga and have zero type

of a focus on any type of paganism.

It's not going to, she's not inviting demons into her life or anything like that whatsoever.

And no, I don't, I've done a little bit of yoga.

I don't really, I don't technically do it and it's really, if I did it, it's more of a comedy routine than anything else.

I would say that overall, it's a good exercise for some people

and really beneficial and valuable.

So, if it, of course, is done the right way for God's glory to please him.

And we'll be giving Aaron Brewster's direct address later where you can mail your complaints.

I dare you.

Now, obviously, we have to be cautious when we have that mindset, don't we?

Like, I'll give you an example.

Tina Turner became a Buddhist, and I don't really know

how serious or authentic her Buddhism was.

Some people in Hollywood and on the left become all sorts of things that involve Eastern

mysticism just because it's hip, it's cool, and you will not be anathema

among your peers like you would be if you became a born -again believer in Christ.

But she would repeat chants and things that totally changed

her frame of mind and her opinion for the better.

But she was actually, you know, quoting the phraseology of

Buddhism, which who knows what kind of satanic incantation that really is.

Don't we have to be careful about things like that?

Oh, 100%.

I mean, I see those too.

Even if we look at it innocently.

Sure, yeah, yeah.

I can't necessarily point to any Buddhist incantations or mantras that, and

truly to be able to pick them apart.

The Bible calls us to be discerning, okay?

There's nothing in the scriptures whatsoever.

If Buddhists or some other pagan religion hadn't, if yoga hadn't been rooted

in that, nobody would be having this question.

We would never talk about it.

But let's be honest, bodybuilding, weightlifting, these different exercises were created by people

who predominantly are also pagans who worship at the altar of self,

self -improvement, beauty, vanity, right?

That's where a lot of our American exercise concepts came from.

And so, to be completely honest, it doesn't really matter why they created it.

If weightlifting is a good idea, it's a good idea, even if the person who invented weightlifting did it because they

were super vain, arrogant people who wanted to do nothing more than look at their beautiful bodies in a mirror.

To the same degree, if the guy who invented yoga or something else were a pagan

and he just so happened to recognize the fact that these various poses and whatever else can be healthy to the body, fine, great,

good.

But it's contingent, it's absolutely necessary for us Christians to be

discerning.

If this mantra that I'm repeating contradicts the Bible, well, that's

obviously wrong.

If this mantra I'm repeating is taking the place of God's truth,

that's a problem.

If when I'm feeling all anxious, I run to yoga before running to God and his word, that's a

problem.

So, yeah, there are a lot of things and we can't just, you know, we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

That's wrong.

But we also shouldn't just embrace every part of a system.

We have to be discerning.

And unfortunately, we Christians aren't.

We turn the TV on, we watch these things, we just kind of accept it.

It's mostly good and we don't really, we amuse ourselves, we turn our brains off, and it's

then that the sinful things in this world and the world system and from Satan in the flesh really start to

truly affect us in ways that go unseen.

So, yeah, Chris, I believe that we need to be super discerning, but we also need to be careful that we're

not just, we're not making up stuff that's not true.

I can't point to anything in the scriptures that would say that a certain exercise is

inherently wrong.

In fact, let's go back to what the Bible says.

Paul said that it's not wrong to eat meat that was offered during a

pagan ritualistic worship service to a false god.

It is okay to actually eat the meat that was used in that.

I would, me personally, Aaron Brewster, when I go to like a Chinese restaurant and I see that little bowl of

fruit and the other food kind of set out next to their little idols, someone tosses me that orange and said, here, eat this.

I'm kind of going, I don't necessarily know that I want to eat this.

I know there's nothing wrong with it, but I feel more about that than I do about potentially doing the,

obviously doing the martial arts.

So, we have to be discerning.

We've got to look at it biblically, and I think we need to ask good questions like your listener did, and we need to search for biblical

answers.

Pete.

We have to go to our final break.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching,

teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code

G3ISIR.

That's G3ISIR for the 30 % discount.

Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd for the G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while

you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your

30 discount off the registration fee.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus, reading, preaching, and

hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com or

call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace.

Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin.

Here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureComm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris

Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Program.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image bearing prophets, priests, and

kings.

We teach families to worship together as families.

Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of

God as the waters cover the sea.

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

Christ.

This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the

kings of the earth.

Puritan Reformed Church.

Believe.

Build.

Fight.

PuritanPHX .com.

BVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly,

much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith

-insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Order online at CBBBS .com.

That's CBBBS .com.

Or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.

That's 1 -800 -656 -0231.

Please let our friends at CBBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth Love Parent and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have

never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth Love Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com.

When Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rich Jensen.

Of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm.

Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my.

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my.

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for.

Your church to help keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com,.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

Hi, this is John Samson,

Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris

Arnzen and the Iron Sharpen's Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time,

and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpen's Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak, and have grown to love, Hope

Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in

Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the

unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ

Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation, and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli

.net, or call 631 -696 -5711,

that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Welcome back, and please remember folks, you've been hearing every day the ads for the Historical

Bible Society, a ministry founded by my friend Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law.

Please don't forget that Dan Buttafuoco is also a serious injury and medical

malpractice attorney, so if you are the victim of a serious accident or medical

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We're now back with Aaron Brewster, and Aaron, I would like you to summarize

what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air, and if we

have time to squeeze in another question, I will.

Aaron Brewster, Author, TruthLoverParent .com.

First of all, feel free to go to TruthLoverParent .com forward slash iron to get a lot more resources to supplement our

conversation today.

Second of all, remember this, your emotions should not control you.

You should be in control of them.

If you see that spider on that floor and you freak out and you become completely unhelpful

and irrational, that's not a Christ honoring response and you don't have to feel that way.

If you focus on truth, the truth of the situation, in a situation like a silly

situation with a spider or a more aggressive situation like an illness or financial

problems or relational carnage, if you focus on the truth of this, who God is,

what his plan is for you, you can find that your emotions will subside, will run in line with

what the scriptures say we should be feeling, and that is always going to be the answer.

And this is every single time I lead my counselees, I lead myself, I lead my family to the truths of scripture.

We put our trust in God and we are held up in perfect peace.

He is our refuge and his strength, and hope and despair, anxiety, depression, and sinful anger just

fly from us in that moment as we run to God.

That's what we must remember.

Pete.

By the way, what if the spider is on your neck?

Jared Well, you can still deal with that without becoming irrational and making the situation worse.

And listen, I'm a beekeeper and I don't wear bee suits.

If I went out there and started freaking out at every bee that landed.

On me, oh, I would have so much trouble.

Pete.

I do not freak out with insects typically, but I know people who do.

More women than men, but I do know some grown men, big, strong,

weightlifting men who run out of the room screaming like a little girl when they see.

A spider in the bathroom.

But anyway...

Jared.

A harmless spider.

That's really rational.

Pete.

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean it's harmless, of course.

There are black widow spiders out there and things.

Jared.

Sure, it could be.

It could be.

But even then, you know, you can still handle it in a rational way.

I mean, I'm just saying.

Pete.

Well, I want to thank you for being such an excellent guest today, Aaron, as you always are.

I look forward to your return to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio soon and frequently.

And I also want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sponsoring Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

Just to remind our listeners, Aaron Brewster is an annual sponsor of Iron Sherpa and

Zion Radio through Evermind Ministries and Truth Love Parent.

So please, not only for your own benefit, first and foremost,

contact his ministry for those resources that he has, but also to

remind him of how much you as a listener love Iron Sherpa and Zion

Radio.

So I would really appreciate that very much.

I want to also thank our listeners, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And I do want to remind you folks, please don't forget about the three -day Bible conference

in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, featuring my very dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha

and Omega Ministries, which is going to be held at

the Spooky Nook

events in Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

And that will be September 15th, 16th, and 17th, which is a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

And for more details, you can keep revisiting ironsherpanzionradio .com,

and you can also keep revisiting midatlanticreformation

.org, midatlanticreformation .org, and click on events.

And we look forward to hearing from you, the listener, with your questions

tomorrow.

We have a first -time guest who is with the aforementioned Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.

His name is David Stoltzfus, and I'm

looking forward to interviewing him for the first time, and I will be finding out momentarily the topic

of that discussion tomorrow.

And I do hope that all of you listening will always remember, for the rest of your

lives, that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a

sinner.