Dan the Mormon Man from Japan

Apologia Utah

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What are your faiths? So I am a Christian, I'm a Bible -believing Christian.

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What do you guys feel about, you know, us coming out here and talking to you guys about It's good, it's positive.

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I think it's a positive thing. Good! I like that. Yeah. You know, just, yeah,

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I feel like people should act on their faiths. I think it's something that, like, people don't do a lot. You know, especially if you're a

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Christian, they're like, oh, I'm a Christian, but I just go to church on Christmas. Or, you know what I mean? Like a majority of the time.

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Right. Yeah, so what do you guys think that means, being Christian? What does that mean? Putting that as a first value, or filter, to make any decisions.

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Okay. So if you say you're a Christian, if you say you believe in Christ, if you say you follow whatever

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Christian faith you follow, and there's specific rules, or faith, or what do we call those?

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Right, ordinances, almost? Yeah. So, let me ask you a question then. So when Jesus tested the apostles, he said to them, who do you say that I am?

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They said they believed in him. Then he said, well, who do you say that I am? Right, so who do you say

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Jesus is? That's the question. That's a big question. Yeah, yeah, I want to hear it. Many ways to answer that. Let's hear it, man.

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A man from Japan. Give me an answer. A man from Japan. A man from Japan. A man from Japan. I love that.

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Jesus is how I make decisions. How you make decisions. Okay. Like his person.

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Like, who is he? What's his deity? Where did he come from? Did he come from somewhere? Who do you say that he is?

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Because that's the question. I mean, for me it doesn't really matter where he came from.

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He could be from Australia. He could be from, I don't know. Before Earth, what was going on with Jesus?

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Well, I guess we were all spirits and I believe he was a spirit too. In the pre -existence?

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Yeah. Okay. I personally believe that we're all one big family that God created.

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And that's how I see him as a big brother. A good big brother.

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I appreciate that. So, how do you handle texts like John chapter 8 that Jesus says himself, he says, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

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And then the name I am is coming from Yahweh of the burning bush. I am that I am the eternal

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God. Which would be uncreated. Right? Without beginning. Without end.

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The first and the last. Like it says in Isaiah 44, 6. I'm the first and the last. Beside me there is no God. Right?

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That's Jesus. Right? And then we have the LDS Church then teaching, no, that's not necessarily true.

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He's the offspring of Elohim and one of his goddess wives. That he had a beginning.

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That he's got a wife? So, we've got Elohim and one of his wives had his mother.

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They procreate in the pre -existence. And they have offspring. Am I correct in LDS doctrine?

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I don't think they have official statement on that. But me, personally, speaking logically, that makes sense.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that's what I've heard. So, we have Jesus would be the offspring of Elohim and Heavenly Mother.

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Lucifer would be the offspring of Elohim and Heavenly Mother. You would be the offspring of Elohim and Heavenly Mother.

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According to LDS doctrine. So, ontologically, your being, you share the same as God. Right?

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And you have the potential to become a God one day. Okay. Understanding that. So, the Bible, though, says otherwise about Jesus, though.

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It says in John chapter 1, it says, In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the

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Word was God. It says, All things were created through Him. There was nothing that came into being unless it was created by Him.

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And in Colossians 1 .16, it says, Jesus created all things on heaven and on earth.

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Whether visible or invisible. Thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

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So, that means, according to the Bible, Jesus created Lucifer. Not that He's the brother of Lucifer.

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How do you reconcile the teachings of the LDS organization and clear teachings of scripture saying that,

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No, God, that Jesus is not offspring. He has always been God, always will be

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God. He never progressed to being God. And then the LDS organization teaching something else. How do you reconcile those scriptures?

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Dan, the man from Japan, I want to hear it. Exactly. So, what I personally think and believe, my logic says, is that, yes, we all already existed in a spiritual sense, but even before that, we just exist as a,

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I don't know how you call it. Intelligences? Intelligences are like, you existed before we were spiritually born into someone's world.

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So, how do you handle text then where it says that Jesus Christ was the same yesterday, today, and forever?

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Because according to that logic, He was not the same. He was once an intelligence, and then He was organized through the procreation between Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother to have a spiritual offspring named

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Jesus Christ. And honestly, we don't even see that whole theory of intelligences in the

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Bible or even in the Book of Mormon. The fact that, and I don't even know how to picture that. Is that like a floating brain in space or something?

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What does that mean, a spirit or something? Yeah, it's like a spirit. It's like a spirit, okay. So, you were like that too, then.

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Okay, we were all like that. Yeah, that's what I believe. And so, where would that be in God's Word? How do you know that to be true?

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Because it's what my prophet teaches. It's what your prophet teaches. My prophet is a speaker for God.

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Oh, there we go. I like that. Good. Everything he says personally is true.

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But what all the prophets have said combined together, if it's in alignment, then that's a good way to look at it.

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If they come up with an official statement, then it's an even better way to look at it. Good answer, Dan, the man from Japan.

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So, question, was Moses a prophet? Was Moses a prophet? It depends on how you define a prophet.

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Was he a mouthpiece for God? Yeah. Okay, yes. He was a mouthpiece for God. That's how it's defined in Deuteronomy chapter 18.

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So, there's two tests of a prophet given from Moses. Deuteronomy 13 says, if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and produces miracles, signs and wonders, so even if it looks legit, even if they're producing miracles, but if they lead you after other gods, gods which you have not known, don't believe them.

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That's the one test of a prophet in Deuteronomy 13. The second test of a prophet is in Deuteronomy 18. And Moses says this through the inspiration of the

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Holy Spirit, who is God. He says, if a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh, but speaks presumptuously, if he is trying to predict the future and that thing does not come to pass, one false prophecy,

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Moses says he's not of God. So, earlier, earlier, Dan, you were saying that they must all conform and fall in line.

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Right? Not everything they say, but if they are going to say something... Well, it's scripture. That is scripture.

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It's not a personal thing. This is from a mouthpiece of God. This is Moses giving you the test of a prophet. I'm just saying what

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I believe, okay? Not everything the prophet says has to be scripture. Not everything they say is what

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God says. How do you know when they're speaking of their own volition or when they're speaking from God?

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How do you know? That depends. I don't know. That's just what the Spirit will tell you, maybe.

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Okay. If it's repeatedly said in the history, then that could be something as a truth, not a statement, but a truth.

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A general idea of what we might be believing in. Right. But, for example, a prophet is also a father.

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If he's just joking to the kids, or even if they all say the same jokes, that's not what we've got.

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Well, Dan, so, for example, what I'm trying to say is, in scripture, it says that no prophecy was ever given by the will of man but the

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Holy Ghost as He used men through inspiration. That's what it says in the scripture. So, in Deuteronomy 13, since that's scripture, that's scripture.

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That's not him speaking as a person. He's speaking as the mouthpiece of God. Same as Deuteronomy 18. So, with Joseph Smith, for example, you can maybe say, well, you can quote me, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but in the

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King Follett discourse, if we're looking at Deuteronomy 13, saying that if He leads you after other gods,

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God which you have known, do not believe them. I'm going to look at that, I'm going to test Joseph Smith, okay? Just lovingly.

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I want to. 1 John 4 commands me to test the Spirit. So, the Bible tells me about the deity of God.

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It says in Psalm 90, verse 2, that God has been God from everlasting into everlasting. Isaiah 43, 10, it says,

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Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after. I am I and the Lord. Beside me there is no

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God. Right? But then we have Joseph Smith in the King Follett discourse, the King Follett sermon, which is one of the most quoted sermons during general conference from the apostles, from even your living prophet today.

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It says, You have imagined and supposed that God has been God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see and you have got to learn to become gods yourselves.

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Those are the words of Joseph Smith. So, what I have in Scripture, in the Bible, is there are no other gods before God.

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He knows not one, according to Isaiah 44, 6, that He is the first and the last, that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and that you can't become one one day.

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So, there's a reconciling that needs to happen, right? For me, according to Scripture, I can look at the claims of Joseph Smith, and I know, you know, you pray about it, you get the feeling.

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I don't want to deny your experience. I can't do that. I'd be stupid. Exactly, you can't. But what I can do is

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I can say, well, I'm going to test the experience. Uh -huh. And I'm going to test it to an objective standard that's not my subjective feelings.

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Uh -huh. And God's objective words actually says Joseph fails. Because not only does He lead you after another god, a god that you have not known, how

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God did not reveal Him to His people in Scripture, also in Deuteronomy chapter 18, it says

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He can't have one false prophecy. He had many. He had many. But the

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Scripture tells us you can't have one. This is our burden for you guys, right?

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This is why we're here because we love and care about you. Uh -huh. Think about this. In the beginning, in the garden, right, we have

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Adam and Eve, and we have God telling them, you can eat all of these plants, have fun, be naked, right?

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Don't be ashamed of your nakedness. And He says, but do not eat from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of which

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I have commanded you. What does the serpent do to Eve, guys? What's the very first thing he does? He looks at Eve.

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He says, did God say that? He said, did God really command you that? Did God say that?

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And He says, the reason why He doesn't want you to eat the fruit is because He knows you'll become just like God. So my worry and my burden for you guys is this, that you have

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Joseph Smith telling you that the Bible's missing many plain and precious parts. He's saying, did God say that? And He says, guess what?

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You'll become a god one day. You gotta learn to become a god. Right? Jesus warns us, guys. He warns us in Matthew.

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And this is how I even examine myself to make sure I'm in the faith. He says this, there's many who will come to me saying,

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Lord, Lord, look at the things I did in your name. Right? Jesus says, depart from me, you workers of iniquity.

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I never knew you. So my admonishment for you guys is to do 1 John 4. Test the spirits.

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If you're so sure of your experience, test it to Scripture. See if Joseph Smith passes, right? You shouldn't be afraid to do that.

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If he's a true prophet, he should pass. So my admonishment is, did we give you one of our tracts? You need to put some right there.

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Take this one as well, guys. I don't need a thousand things. But the gospel is this, okay?

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I'm going to give you the simple gospel. Is that Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, the eternal

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God, took on flesh and died on the cross so that we may have peace with God. It says this about us and our position before God.

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In Romans chapters 4 through 6, which I recommend you read, it does not say that we're spirit creatures, right?

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Who then inhabit bodies and that we have the same being as God and that we live here in mortal probation. It doesn't say that. This is what it says.

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It says, your father is Adam. You are from the dirt. Isaiah 45 states that God created man on the earth and breathed the breath of life in him.

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It says that we are from Adam. Adam sinned. We inherit his sin nature. We are children of wrath, not children of God.

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So one sin in front of a holy God means eternal condemnation because God is love, but he's also just.

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And he is holy, holy, holy. The only thing to appease God the Father is his

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Son, who is eternally God, taking on flesh, dying on the cross, living a perfect life, perfect to the works of the law, right?

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And then raising from the dead three days later and his righteousness being given to me because there's nothing

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I can do on my own. My righteousness, it says in the Bible, is nothing but filthy rags.

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It's working with Christ alone, not the obedience to the gospel ordinances and principles, guys. You'll never work that up on your own.

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It's denying the sacrifice of Christ. It says in Galatians, if you want to be justified for the law, the death of Christ has no effect on you.

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It's trying to offer your own righteousness to God. Put it away. By the works of the law, no flesh shall be justified in his sight.

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It's because we're denying what Jesus did for us, right? So my admonishment is this.

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Test the Jesus Joseph told you. 2 Corinthians 11, verse 4 says there's people who will come who will preach a different Jesus, a different gospel, who have accepted a different spirit.

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Test it. You've heard the gospel today. My call to you is repent of the LDS organization and put your faith in the one true living

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God who is Jesus Christ. And again, I don't want to tear anyone's faith up. It's because I love you guys.

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Here's my burden for you, right? I know how wicked I am and how God saved me from my sin, right?

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And when I look at you guys, what I'm seeing is someone who believes in the Christ of Joseph Smith, one, that doesn't exist so you don't have to sacrifice for your sins.

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It would be unloving for me not to tell you this. Because I don't want you guys to go to hell. It's like if a car was, you were in the road and a car was barreling down the highway and we're saying, get out of the road.

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And finally we just come and push you out of the way. Right. And so as hard as this is for us to leave our wives and our children and to come out here on a

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Thursday night, that's how serious we believe in this, that there are differences between Mormonism and biblical

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Christianity that are of eternal significance. And so that's why we do this. It would cost you,

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I guess, almost everything to leave it. But Jesus says in Luke 14 to count the cost, to be willing to be hated by sister, mother, father, brother.

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That's what he says. And so if you were to consider, if you guys read through the

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New Testament again with fresh eyes, read the New Testament with fresh eyes. Read the Jesus of Nazareth that we're trying to talk to you about.

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Read it again. Consider some of the things we're saying. If you guys were to leave this organization, you wouldn't be alone.

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I'm a pastor of a church in Salt Lake City. There is several churches that we partner with down here,

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Christian churches. And I know it'd be so hard to leave your family, friends, but it is worth it.

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Jesus says it is all worth it. And he's everything we need. He's all that we need.

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His sacrifice alone so that when God the Father looks upon Andrew, he sees not the filthiness of his sin because of Christ's atoning work.

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He sees Christ's righteousness as robed over him. Not mine. Not his own.

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And so it's not by performing the word of wisdom, the gospel ordinances and principles by being sealed in the temple, going through the temple endowments, by being sealed in the so -called one true church.

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Those are all the things that the LDS Church is trying to stack on top of the sacrifice of Christ.

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So you have the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. And the Mormon Church says that's pretty good, but let me add all these things.

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And as long as you do these things, and 2 Nephi 25, 23 says, for by grace you've been saved after all that you can do.

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So there's the grace, Jesus' sacrifice, and then there's all the stuff you have to do.

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The Bible says otherwise, in Ephesians 2, 8, 9, it says for by grace, which is unmerited favor.

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It's purely a gift, right? Unmerited, which means you can't earn it, you can't work for it. It's a gift. He says for by grace you have been saved through faith that is not of yourselves for it is a gift of God that no man may boast.

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We have no room for boasting in that. It's Christ's work. It's not all on top of that. And we're not saying it's cheap grace.

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Romans chapter 6 says, should we go on sinning that grace may abound? He says may it never be.

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How have we who have died to sin continue to live in it? So I know a lot of LDS look at Christians and go, you guys believe in cheap grace.

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You guys believe you can turn to Christ and live like heathens. That's not what we're saying either. We're saying when

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God changes your life, He transforms you, gives you the gift of repentance.

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You do a complete 180, right? You turn around, you go the other way, and you have new desires, you have new wants, and you have a new adoration for God.

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And that's what compels you to good works. So the good works are the fruit of salvation, not the root.

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Not the root, right? So a lot of times, that's what I'm getting at. The LDS Church says good works are the root.

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They keep that tree strong. No, we're trying to say the good works are the fruit. They are the evidence of a good root.

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And that root, John chapter 15, verse 5, Jesus says, I am the vine.

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I am the trunk. He who believes in me, and I in him, I abide in him, he abides in me, he will bear much fruit.

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For apart from me, you can do nothing. So anyways, that's what we're saying, is we see these big differences, and that's what compels us out here.

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And so we have a great love for you guys. And yeah, so we just hope you consider some of the stuff we're saying.

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Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, for sure. Keep up the good work. All right.

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Thank you, my friend. All right. Thanks, Dan. All right. Good meeting you. Remember this, just test the spirits, like I was saying earlier.

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There are things to be reconciled in terms of before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. You can find probably 500 different verses saying there's only one

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God. Right. The LDS church teaches differently. Do not have the true and living God.

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You don't have a sacrifice for your sins. So just remember that. Yeah. We will not become gods one day of our own universe.

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This is the one universe run by the one true God. We will not have people worship us.

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We will not have our own spirit children. This is it. And God calls all men and women everywhere to repent, to follow him today.

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And so that's that's it. So anyways, again, thank you. And Wade.

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Yeah. Emily and Dan, the man from Japan. Yeah. All right. Blessings to you guys.