Reformation Tour, Allen Debate Invitation, Rome and Mary, and More

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00:32

Please mute your cell phones, haha You know, we hear that so often at the beginning of every single thing that we do

00:41

Church services wherever it is. Nobody does it anymore. I Cannot remember the last time

00:48

I spoke that I was not interrupted at some point by a text message phone call

00:53

Facebook notification thing going off in the audience and Most of us are starting to just ignore it

01:01

It's just so ubiquitous, but no one no one listens. No one no one cares anymore. Anyways, welcome to the dividing line and Yes, this is the program that's a spinoff from the regular reformed guys

01:16

Yeah, right See we first started the dividing line. I think I don't think book was born

01:23

And and red was about six. I think something like that. So yeah, that's that's how that worked Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hard to say but I did listen to the last one and I think

01:34

I mentioned I mentioned on the last program that we The last regular reform guys was on INC in Glacier in a crystal very very useful.

01:43

Very helpful You might want to listen that one and it was particularly good because Alan wasn't on it So I was

01:51

I listened to that one multiple times so just thought I'd mention that hey before we get into Everything else here on the program today

02:00

We have a special guest live from the halls of power in back east and where you you can't drive without Getting driven off the road by crazy people and things like that, but we are we are joined by our

02:21

I'm a little I've got a question. Do you do you even remember us Mike? You know us little people out here still

02:29

You know, they're just out here in the little little little world. I don't understand what you mean by that Oh, well, you're you know, you're you're you're hanging with the big guys these days.

02:39

So I just you know The funny thing is is that in and I we can't mention names.

02:45

No, no, we can't but It's the funny thing is is that a lot of the quote big guys that he's referring to are now

02:56

Actually listening to some of your debates. Yeah. Well, so so you've said well No, it's verifiable brother.

03:03

We'll see about that. Anyway, so we're um, we've got some stuff going on this year you of course live out of a suitcase and Have you do you ever blame me for that because I I did have a there was a direct connection here

03:20

You used to live out of a suitcase and wear tennis shorts And now you live a suitcase and you wear a suit and tie.

03:25

So There's a little bit of a difference there Well, it's just where where God has taken us, right?

03:31

I mean, it's a I think that what our intention was back in going back to 1999

03:37

You know was just to ensure that we were bringing God's truth forward being able to Publicly engage in apologetic debate.

03:46

I you never saw this coming in 1999 Gosh, no I Mean the intent is always hey, let's change the world

03:56

You know and do our part in what we can yeah, but I think that you know, it's amazing when you look back

04:03

James to You know 1999 to where we are now in 2017 and all the things that have morphed and yeah, my entire life has changed

04:14

No, I'm no longer a tennis professional obviously by the size of me now And all the different iterations of things that I've done in in that time, but you know it's still it needs to stay the same and You know as you've said so many times that we stand on the shoulder of Giants.

04:33

Yep, and The appreciation of that is

04:39

Really? I think one of the things that that benefits some of the things that we're gonna be doing this fall Yeah, so this fall

04:45

Well first I you know, how many months this year you are you in Europe Think you said like four see

04:57

May July August September Five five five.

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Okay. I'm surprised. I haven't found a way to tax you yet And by the way,

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I get my well I'm not even gonna mention that in the air anyways So I'm gonna be over there. In fact,

05:18

I guess we're just gonna be sort of missing each other because I'm gonna be over there in May and I will too.

05:26

Yeah Probably not in a little teeny tiny City in the Czech Republic somewhere as I will be for a while and then over in Kiev But anyways nearly three weeks for me, which is way beyond my expiration date, but I'm getting better at it

05:42

As time goes by I guess it is something you get used to But in September we are

05:48

Going back over there and we are going to be doing a little Reformation trip.

05:54

We've been talking about it I've tried to be a good doobie and mention it. No one knows today. What a doobie is do they in fact?

06:01

They probably think doobie is something. It's actually not good, but it's a do be Even you're not old enough to remember

06:08

What was that what was that program remember had the mirror and it went around around remember that See in some ways you do resemble

06:17

Donald Trump as you start talking about things that are offensive to some people in Romper room You don't remember romper room.

06:25

You're too young for romper room But that was that's where that comes from and nobody has any idea Anyway, I need to stop using that particular illustration.

06:33

In fact, there are lots of illustrations. I need to stop using It'll make any sense whatsoever anymore.

06:38

I'm just old but we are going to be headed over there and I've been trying to be good and remind folks of that and say you can't put this off because 500 anniversaries don't come around very often and I can guarantee

06:56

I'm not gonna be around for the next one Yeah, and I tell you I think When you consider what we're doing in the time that we're doing it with all the changes that are going on in the world

07:06

And especially in Germany You know, maybe hopefully it won't be our farewell to Germany to work.

07:12

Yeah You know you consider what's happening and we have an opportunity to proclaim the truth wherever we go when we say that we're doing a tour,

07:21

I would want people to understand that this is more like a moving convention if you will where we are taking people from Berlin to Wittenberg to Eisleben to Erfurt to Eisenach where Bartburg Castle is and down to Heidelberg and Worms I've heard

07:41

I've heard that afterwards we get to use Little inkwell shaped balloons to have ink fights on the on the lawn outside the castle.

07:49

Is that true? Depends on who the devil is I guess Throw the inkwell at the devil, right?

07:55

And actually, I don't know if you've been in that room before Bartburg Castle, you know, it's no It's it's really really interesting, but we'll be doing something at Bartburg Castle that I don't want to give away just yet But well, you know,

08:07

I'm planning on doing a a reading from the the German New Testament myself, oh

08:14

I'm fun. Varda swords and that's what of our bygotten got Vardas for does elbow barman fun by God all the dingus in Dersh in come up and on it.

08:22

He missed niche come up. What's come up is See, you don't sound so German. You sound more like the

08:28

Swedish chef when you're doing that. But anyway Okay, who let this guy on rich are you responsible for this

08:36

Are you respond? Did you like what did he pay you? Anyway Well did and this goes on folks throughout the the time that we'll we'll be together

08:50

You mean this kind of stuff the insults? Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. That's that's great. Yeah, that's wonderful the

08:57

James and Mike and rich though, I guess but the You know when you consider and I really want to be

09:03

You know giving the people out there an understanding of what's gonna make this so much different than other tours that are currently out there first of all our pacing of the tour the places that will be staying and actually some of the really unique Special places that will be we're gonna be able to get into Privately that others really can't get into So, you know if you're planning on going on one of the

09:29

Reformation tours this year have been considering it Really? This will be the one of the most special Dr.

09:35

White will be lecturing in each one of these different cities along with Pastor Josh vice as Well, who is as you know is the founder of the g3 conference in Atlanta.

09:47

So he'll be with us as well and Yeah, and all my lectures will actually be on manuscript p45.

09:53

So his his will be a lot more interesting in mind I really hope not but No, I that is that it's gonna be really

10:00

I think a special time folks and you know Those of you that have not done Tours with us before it's a totally different animal than just doing a cruise and we'll be having experiences that That really are going to be

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For many of you some of the most interesting and special times of your life. So I really look forward to making that happen

10:23

Along the way that we have just a few months. That'll be September the 21st When that begins right, so we're getting pretty close right now

10:31

And we also might have something else very special happening that I can't really talk about just yet Yeah, I can't either.

10:39

Hey, maybe by The end of this week or the first of next week of something that if we pull this off We'll be reason enough to make sure that you're there.

10:49

Oh, yeah, definitely All righty, man, well we appreciate appreciate the information and Hopefully, maybe we'll get you to come back on if that all pans out by the end of the week or early next week and We've get we're getting a lot of a lot of requests though for you to reprise though.

11:09

It'd be completely irrelevant to reprise your Alaska thing because that was one of without a doubt one of the most popular

11:20

Spots we ever had on on the dividing line. Is it easier for me to say? Eisenach No, no, there's that no.

11:29

Yeah, I was gonna ask how what does that sound like in German when you go from? Alaska to a

11:42

This doesn't work the same way no effort. Yes. All right guys. Well, hey James, thanks for having me on I'm looking forward to putting this all together for you and hopefully with some exciting news coming up soon.

11:53

Let's hope so Let's hope so. All right. Thank you, sir. Okay, brother. Have a good day. God bless All right. Thanks to a

11:59

Michael Fallon for joining us to remind everybody of what's coming up. And like I said, I You know, we pray that we will be able to make this arrangement add a special thing to the

12:14

To the tour that will would really make it really make it special really make it special.

12:20

So Join with us in the background behind my head up there.

12:27

I came in today and Here was this beautiful painting of the

12:37

Enterprise D Done in Van Gogh style and it and on the back.

12:43

It's it says artist a JA now I don't know if that's I uh, uh -huh.

12:48

I did you said there wasn't You said there wasn't a note No, no but he

12:56

No, no, but he just ran off So I can't see him anymore. Anyways, it's yeah, it's the starry night

13:02

Enterprise back there and it's Where von where where Van Gogh never went?

13:08

Was that was the other back some like that? I'm not sure where I'm gonna put it. Everything's gonna be changing back there.

13:13

Oh What so this is the box you didn't turn it on No, I have it on oh, you don't have your earpiece in see how it is, okay

13:25

Yeah, see the kind of grief I get people and it's uh, it's out of Canada, Ontario a place called extreme imaging

13:32

Oh, that's all that's it. That's all I okay all right, so We can only only tell you what we've we've got on on the back of the back of the thing

13:42

But I it's beautiful. I'm not sure where No, no note, there's stuff flying around the other room nothing nothing there.

13:51

Okay, we tried anyways Thanks to whoever sent it and it is beautiful. It's extremely colorful.

13:57

It's got a great texture to it. It's really neat so it goes really well with my two troubles my

14:04

My Borg sphere, which is a bobblehead or never thought you know when you think of Borg you do not think of bobbleheads

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They don't know but a bobblehead sphere my my Borg cube one of my two

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Borg cubes I have a Borg cube in my office as well And now the Enterprise D back there.

14:22

Now. I don't know what we're gonna do with all this stuff Because we're rearranging some shelving in my office to put all of my

14:31

Text critical stuff in one spot and that top shelf is a good portion of my text critical stuff.

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So It May turn into an entire Star Trek thing. I don't know because I don't know maybe the

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Borg sphere will be back there We just put that on the top of the troubles in front of it. I will see oh

14:52

Well, we'll figure it out we'll figure it out anyway Last evening

15:00

I posted a Invitation To Dr.

15:08

David L. Allen of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary To do a debate with me a public debate with me a scholarly public debate in Dallas in October I'm gonna be in Dallas twice in October Pretty much toward the beginning of month and then at the very end of the month and Then right now the plan is

15:30

I'll be going from Dallas to Washington DC Right at the end of the month, but that would give me three dates in Dallas That we could set up a debate in The Dallas Fort Worth area between myself and dr.

15:52

Allen. Dr. Allen has taken leadership of the traditional movement particular the traditionalist and I I put that in quotes because I recognize

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I have I do not accept the idea historically speaking that a form of Arminian synergism is exact is actually the traditionalist the traditional view of Southern Baptist there are periods of time in the past when reform theology was the majority in Southern Baptist experience as I understand it

16:25

But be as it may Dr. Allen has taken a position of leadership particularly in writing and speaking on the subject of the atonement and This goes back to 2008 the

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John 316 conference and that's where he identified me as a hyper Calvinist errantly

16:49

And so we don't need to be partnering with hyper Calvinists and so on and so forth so I Have responded to dr.

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Allen very fully many many times on on this program Yesterday on Twitter.

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He basically made the statement that if you believe in particular redemption, you really don't have a basis for Proclaiming gospel hope to anyone because you don't have an atonement to offer to people and of course

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We've we've gone we've gone around around these things over and over again. We don't know who the elect are the biblical proclamation of the gospel is repent and believe

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We've got around these things over and over again, so I decide look how can we

17:37

Arrange a debate here. I'm gonna be in Dallas This is gonna be this is without doubt the busiest year of my life

17:44

Traveling wise now in the PhD program at Northwest Northwestern University, which by the way had a 6 .5

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Richter scale earthquake yesterday So we certainly pray for the folks in Patras room and around South Africa, of course

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Nobody in the United States even even mentioned it if I didn't have Dear friends down there like Rudolph.

18:07

I wouldn't even known about it, but With the traveling the debate on the 21st of April which

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I hope everyone has on your calendar, even if you cannot attend we have locked down the

18:23

Live streaming and so there will be live streaming for the debate against Iglesias and Acosto and Mr.

18:34

Ventilacion who is their primary debater their primary representative in public debate So this is gonna be a historic debate you may say in Rapid City, South Dakota.

18:47

Yep For for them, this is extremely important as part of their westward expansion and Especially with the

18:56

Recording and the live streaming. I think this is one of the most important encounters

19:03

I've watched a number of the debates they've done before and very rarely they debate people who have experience in debating and I certainly think

19:13

I'm on safe grounds to say they've never debate anyone that is as experienced as I am in debating Just simply have having done the number of debates that I've that I've done so Got that coming up the teaching in the

19:26

Czech Republic Ukraine Wittenberg just a tremendous amount of things writing projects that just Overwhelming amount of stuff your prayers really really appreciate when

19:39

I say Please put on your on your in your prayers the the debate itself could could be extremely

19:47

An extreme blessing to people trapped in the INC. So please pray that That it goes well.

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Anyway I've got all this stuff going on. I Don't need to add anything in October.

20:01

I do not need to add anything more I've got Muslim dialogues and debates and writing projects and And until I graduated graduate with that PhD every spare moment that I have is is dedicated to The textual critical work that that I'm gonna be doing books out the wazoo to be reading and so anyway

20:29

But I'm gonna be in Dallas and So I thought all right if I come to Dallas Dr.

20:41

Allen doesn't have to go anywhere. It's just it's a local event for him. We can arrange the location

20:50

And Let's do it this way let's Let's talk about the issue of the atonement that's his most recent book now, that's a huge subject

21:07

If you've seen from heaven he came to saw and saw her which had a lot of criticism of dr. Allen in it, by the way Which I'm sure he responds to in his current book.

21:15

I didn't bring my Kindle in with that book, but his book and that are they're huge books and So far from what

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I have seen dr. Allen spends a lot of time talking about things I'm not sure are overly Relevant to the subject at hand what

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I mean by that is He spends a lot of time talking about divisions amongst reformed people especially drawing on material provided to him by an

21:47

Amaral Deen writer When he is not Calvinistic at all the debate with Amaral Deen's would be irrelevant to what he's actually saying and a dialogue with an

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Amaral Deen on the issues of the intention the atonement is one thing a dialogue with a Synergist who rejects the specificity of the decree of election is something completely different and So We could go around and around around and I'll be perfectly honest with you in in a one brief debate

22:24

I don't see how much could be accomplished. I believe in particular redemption as I mentioned in the debate invitation because when you apply the same rules of exegesis and hermeneutics to Romans chapter 8 and the book of Hebrews and Texts along these lines when you apply the same hermeneutics to those texts that I'll be utilizing in the debate against Iglesia Ni Cristo in just a matter of weeks

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That leads you to the conclusion of particular redemption leads you to believe that there is perfect harmony between the

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Father Son the Spirit in the intention that was theirs in The action of the free giving of the

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Son upon the cross and So this is an exegetical thing for me and so the thought crosses my mind.

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Well, this is okay. Here we go Dr. Allen has written a commentary on the book of Hebrews.

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He's written a book on the issue of the atonement so let's

23:31

Go to Hebrews. It's a big book. There's plenty to talk about you're still not gonna Even in even if we made it a three hour debate

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With a large amount of presentation time You're still not gonna even come close to exhausting

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The exegetical material just in the book of Hebrews alone. So let's let's get focused and you see for It would seem to me that if there is a concern on the part of the leadership of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary That someone like myself has in undue influence amongst the students in promoting reformed theology that they need to understand that the reason

24:16

I believe the things I believe is because of Exegetical concerns exegetical issues and So Wouldn't wouldn't the best thing be

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To demonstrate exegetically by a person who's not only written a huge book in the subject But a commentary in the book of Hebrews that my exegesis is wrong wouldn't that be the most useful thing that that they could possibly do and So it seems to me that I have bent over backwards to put all the onus on me

24:53

None on dr. Allen whatsoever. I Do the traveling it's outside of everything.

24:59

I'm doing this year He has to do nothing

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I mean if you've already written a commentary in Hebrews you just recently read a book on the subject really how much work would you?

25:12

have to do to put together a presentation on the idea that the book of Hebrews teaches universal atonement, but So I put it out there the responses that we have gotten

25:33

More than just slightly more than just slightly disappointing to be sure

25:43

Fell by name of Kyle B. Gulledge, this was on the John 316 connect

25:48

Facebook page My advice dr. Allen would be never wrestle with a pig the pig enjoys it too much and you only get dirty

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I had a guy named Nathan S Kang who doesn't like my doctorate evidently And Then David Worley said white and a respectful debate do not go hand in hand unless white is repented and changed

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Dr. Allen throw this invitation in the trash can Well Would love to ask mr.

26:19

Worley to document his very kind Christian criticism

26:24

But my experience has always been that keyboard warriors when challenged

26:30

All of a sudden the batteries were out on the keyboard and they disappear for a particular period of time

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But Rick Patrick, dr. Rick Patrick jumped in as well Which was really interesting because he's in the leadership and we hear all the time about how you know, hey, we're all on the same side

26:48

We're all pulling. Hmm. Dr. Patrick's comment was this reminds me of that time when

26:54

Sanbalat invited Nehemiah to a moderated respectful scholarly debate on the rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem Nehemiah respectfully declined

27:03

Really? I don't know. I I get the feeling that That some of these folks aren't nearly as Open to being unified and having meaningful discussion based on the

27:19

Bible as they may let on Yeah, well anyway so as I've said

27:29

I Really hope that dr. Allen will give serious consideration this invitation.

27:34

There are many people that would like to see Such a conversation like this take place.

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I think it would be very useful Without it. What you have is one side saying

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X Y & Z and then you go back to the other side and and they say

27:52

They respond and you go back to the other side and go back to and since they never get together and never actually, you know debate and Have to answer questions directly nothing really ever gets solved and That's problematic that's that that's problem

28:14

But I recognize that we have invited. Dr. Allen to debate many times before and he has consistently

28:23

Declined those invitations. And so even though we've done everything we can to remove all encumbrances

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My thinking is that if Dr. Allen says no,

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I that's not something that I would actually be interested in doing Then what

28:42

I will try to do is work with my contacts there in Dallas find a location as close to Southwestern as possible for the convenience of the students and Do a presentation where I would accurately and fairly

29:00

Represent the exegetical statements made by dr. Allen in his book on the subject of The book of Hebrews and the relevant texts

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Or if those texts were not covered, I'll mention that as well and then give a presentation on The I believe the biblical doctrine of atonement and why it is a proclamation of what

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God accomplished Not what he tried to accomplish that when the son enters into the presence of the father

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He has obtained eternal redemption not a theoretical redemption But has actually obtained eternal redemption and the very intimate and very often ignored relationship between this very important doctrine and the doctrine of union with Christ, I Think there's a fundamental

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Degradation of the doctrine of union with Christ within synergistic circles Because when you think about the biblical teaching of our being in Christ are we in Christ because we chose to be so or we in Christ as an act of his power and then that Involves his regeneration of us and therefore we want to be in Christ and we rejoice in being in Christ and what's the relationship of union with Christ with the subject of Propitiation and all this is related to the subject of election the great power of reformed theology is its pan canonical consistency and harmony and That's why when denominations lose the highest view of Scripture They lose any type of meaningful reformed theology at the same time

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That's why people who teach a high view of Scripture, but don't have a high theology Lose especially young thoughtful people to reformed theology because When you start looking at all of what

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Scripture says, this is where it leads you. So There you go. So we'll let you know what happens as to dr.

31:08

Allen's response to that particular issue real quickly I Didn't want to comment.

31:15

I hadn't had the opportunity of commenting since this blew up over the weekend, but Most of you know that vice president

31:23

Mike Pence I believe is a member of an evangelical church founded by a master's seminary graduate.

31:31

So that means he has a very conservative grounded Biblical Teaching coming his direction don't know how often he can be there anymore given his position, but That's where that's where he's coming from You all know

31:50

What happened over the weekend in regards to the shocking revelation?

31:57

that the vice president actually honors his wife and and his

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And his marriage and that's really what it was all about You can put all the rest of the of the absurdities written by the totalitarian left aside

32:14

You must understand Individuals who rejoice in the profaning of marriage by the

32:23

Supreme Court In the absurdity called the Obergefell abomination

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People like that do not honor marriage they want to see marriage destroyed and So when they encounter someone especially someone in positions of high power

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That honors what they themselves wish to see destroyed. Well, why do they want to see it destroyed because a stable marriage relationship a stable family is the greatest detriment to the left's undermining of Western civilization and culture if you have

33:06

Fathers who honor their if you have husbands who honor their wives fathers who honor their families

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Live self -sacrificially to give to them and to provide for them if you have wives who honor their husbands and love their families and nurture those families this is going to result in a culture that is not going to be rejoicing in Transgenderism and homosexuality and pedophilia and bestiality and and all the other

33:36

Perversions of human sexuality that the Bible identifies and that the Bible prohibits for the flourishing of mankind and so All the rest of this stuff all the stuff about what

33:51

I just Just can't believe that someone be so scared of women and all the rest of that has nothing to do with being scared women

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It's knowing your own self and it's honoring your wife and it's honoring the commitment that you have made to her

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Knowing the power of temptation knowing the power of Desiring to live a life that does not contain things that would cause the gospel to be blasphemed because of you or things like that and It was a true indication of Just how deep the cancer has gone in our society

34:32

To see how many people Found what the vice president does and many and the vast majority of look that that was common sense in my day

34:46

Maybe there's a reason why I Haven't looked up the numbers, but in just a matter of weeks.

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I will celebrate my 35th wedding anniversary and I'm not sure what the numbers are but I Think the number of people lasting that long is getting smaller and smaller and smaller and So There's a reason for that and the totalitarian left

35:21

Wants that number to continue to go down Stability is not what they want. They want instability and That instability is going to be produced

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By having people focus upon themselves their own felt needs rather than service to others

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Covenant commitments faithfulness. These are things that are no longer to be honored in our society

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And that's really what you have going on in that situation, so let's

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Pray for anyone let alone Mike Pence who is in the public eye and who dares to do something godly you know, we had a little bit of a

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Dust up a few years back about the fact. I pointed to Paul's statement to Timothy that Men will go on getting worse and worse deceiving and being deceived and and that anyone who wanted to live godly in Christ Jesus we persecuted and there are certain eschatological perspectives go.

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Well, it was just that time it's that's that's always be that way and I'm like Certainly is true today

36:27

Certainly is true in our in our context today. I think that's that's really a rather obvious reality.

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All right. I Was directed to appropriately a video that Catholic answers posted

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I Want to play this for you, and I want you to hear the whole thing I've mentioned many times the fact that many years ago probably about 1994 ish 9495 somewhere around there.

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I Received a cassette tape and for the young people amongst us, please just Google some of the historical ancient historical resources on the internet to find out what a cassette tape is

37:14

I put it into a very large box that I carried in my jersey pocket and went for a bike ride and I'm I Listened to been doing this for a long time listened to Jerry Madatix Give a presentation on Mary and the speed at which it

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I couldn't play it at 1 .5 back then because that would be very dangerous and would eat the cassette tape for those who remember those days, but Even at normal speed

37:44

He ripped through this presentation on Mary and man I'll tell you I was like I would I would not know how to respond to this until I got home and I was able to play it point by point stop start look things up and then

37:55

I found all the holes, but it sounded so good and Very often we will hear what

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Rome says about Mary and We'll go

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Really? How can anyone believe that and it really it always worries me when

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I hear a Protestant say how could anyone believe that That tells me you've never heard they're better presentations this gives you an idea of how the the lens of tradition

38:33

Can function to completely reorient the words on the page of Scripture. Here is a clip where the guest is asked

38:47

Why Jesus called Mary mother Mary woman? and It's interesting that he describes

38:56

Tim Staples book, which of course I've read and which I found to be

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Very poorly argued exegetically speaking And made some criticism about when it first came out

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I mentioned a number of times in it But listen to the glowing language he uses of Staples book, but more importantly

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I I Want you to I want you to sit back and I want you to listen to it and go.

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All right. I know why this doesn't Communicate to me why it doesn't convince me but what if I were someone that did not have the the education in biblical backgrounds and how to do exegesis and and and I what if I was a standard

39:48

Roman Catholic that Doesn't get much in the way of in -depth biblical teaching What would this sound like to me?

39:57

I? Think that's why I want you to hear this and then of course at the same time to hear the You know, we're being told by a bunch of people today that you know, we in the

40:07

Roman Catholics need to get together I Wish you could I I'm looking forward to when the conversation between myself and Peter D.

40:17

Williams airs on unbelievable. We had a really good conversation I like the guy he's really nice and he's a sharp guy and we have a lot in common, but we talked about the fact that We don't have the same gospel and the nice thing was he agreed with that He recognized we're not we're not directing people the same way and that creates a a tragic but absolutely necessary division and so here's um, here's a clip from Catholic answers live and Listen in and see what you what you think nice graphics, by the way

41:02

Go to Lester in Cyprus, California listening on Immaculate art radio. You are on with Carlo Broussard. What's your question

41:08

Lester? Hey, thanks for taking my call and aside a big fan of you.

41:13

I really miss your movie reviews buddy. Oh, you're very nice Thank you.

41:18

Let's talk about this Chat about this. Thank you Lester.

41:24

You're very kind. Thank you Okay, so quick question. Why did I didn't

41:30

Jesus call our blessed lady mother and always referred to her as a woman? Yes This is a fantastic question before I answer it

41:38

Lester, I'm gonna have to give a plug for my mentor and Colleague Tim Staples and his book behold your mother

41:48

It's a sort of an exhaustive Exhaustive defense biblical and historical defense of the various doctrines and dogmas

41:56

That we believe as Catholics regarding Mary and in that book Addresses this question in great detail, but I'm just going to give you a sneak peek of that Lester and basically

42:09

Fundamentally, it seems I think we have a high degree of reasonable Certitude to conclude that what

42:15

Jesus is doing Lester is he's trying to make a connection. He's trying to draw us to the reality of Who Mary is namely she is the prophetical woman?

42:28

Spoken of in the Old Testament and what is called the proto evangelium the first Gospel in Genesis chapter 3 verse 15

42:37

Lester. Do you recall how after Adam and Eve sinned? God speaks to Eve and God speaking to Satan and says

42:46

I will set enmity total opposition separation between you and the woman between your seed and Her seed do you recall that Lester you recall that prophecy?

43:01

Yeah, okay. Fantastic. Yeah so what we see there is number one this woman that God is

43:06

Referring to is going to be the mother of the Messiah because the seed that will come forth from this woman

43:12

Which some scholars see to be a hint of the virgin birth of Jesus, right? Because normally the

43:17

Bible talks about the seed of the man, but here's talking about the seed of the woman So here we have this virgin

43:23

Woman giving birth to this male child that's going to crush the head of the serpent

43:28

But if you notice Lester that woman is not of the seed of Satan Consequently, we can conclude that this woman is sinless.

43:38

She's not tainted by This by sin and the dominion of Satan and because she's not of his seed

43:47

We see a hint that this woman will be Immaculately conceived Like the first woman because Lester in the

43:55

Genesis narrative Eve was called woman in the first few couple of chapters

44:02

Before Eve sinned she doesn't receive her name until after she sins

44:08

So the first woman was created without the stain of original sin.

44:14

She was pure She was holy, but she failed the new woman that God prophesies about is going to be like the first woman in that She will be created free from original sin, but unlike the first woman

44:29

She will remain sinless because there will be total opposition between the serpent

44:34

Satan and this woman and I think this is the historical. This is the backdrop

44:40

Lester against which Jesus Refers to Mary as woman and if you do the biblical study if you do some

44:47

Bible study Lester, you'll discover that all the Preceding verses before John chapter 2 verse 4 where Jesus calls

44:55

Mary woman to the wedding feast of Cana What John is doing is he has various details in his narrative that parallel the first creation story so the whole

45:07

Context in which Jesus says woman it's embedded in this context of this image of a new creation and so what

45:16

Jesus is revealing to us is that this woman Mary is the woman of the new creation that Genesis 315 was speaking of and consequently

45:25

Jesus would call Mary woman and John 19 25 when he's on the cross as He's crushing the head of the serpent

45:34

He looks to that woman until he looks to Mary and says woman behold your son

45:40

Do you think he's just calling her woman for? Is this just a coincidence? I don't think so and then finally

45:47

Lester in Revelation 12 when John has his heavenly vision What is he described?

45:53

but yet he describes the mother of the Messiah as The woman clothed with the son and she will have offspring her offspring would be those who keep the commandments of God So the bottom line

46:05

Lester I think we could conclude that Jesus is calling Mary woman at the wedding feast of Cana and on the cross

46:11

Precisely to connect her to the woman God prophesied about in Genesis 315 that woman who would be a new woman

46:20

Created free from original sin and remaining sinless throughout her life not touched by the stain of Satan Fantastic.

46:30

Okay, Lester. Hey brother. Thank you so much for giving us a call this app Okay, I Think most people have the same reaction to that the first time you hear it

46:46

You just sit there going. No, really? But yes, this is

46:56

This is what is taken for biblical teaching and exegesis in Roman Catholic apologetics a

47:03

Dogma Preached against by seven popes Unknown the early church never the subject of sermons for hundreds of years into church history

47:19

Can't demonstrate that that major names Who lived and died even identified as Saints by the

47:26

Roman Catholic Church ever had any idea of it? But you see that doesn't matter that that simply isn't relevant because they don't believe in sola scriptura and so the church has the right to define these things and That's what's behind that statement from geriatrics

47:48

You have just as much epistemological warrant to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ Isn't a bodily assumption of Mary and the bodily assumption of Mary is defined in 1950 the immaculate conception

47:57

Which you just heard being read back as the lens through which you are to read all the texts of Scripture 1854 and so This is what happens when you deny sola scriptura this becomes

48:14

Biblical teaching this becomes biblical exegesis. It's neither. It's a historical.

48:20

It's a anti biblical it is Binding upon men's consciences beliefs that are

48:30

Utterly not to be found anywhere in Scripture and yet How many of the people listening to that program that day listen to Catholic answers live?

48:43

In their cars in their homes in their offices How many people sat there and went

48:48

Wow? That's cool See what

48:54

I believe is biblical and so What's more how many of us?

49:03

not enslaved to Rome's traditions Would be able to give them any kind of meaningful corrective

49:13

Historically biblically in any other way on this particular subject. This is why we've done debates in the past on the

49:21

Marian dogmas We did a full debate on the Immaculate Conception with Peter Peter Ferraro.

49:28

Is that what it was? Chris Christopher Farrar, right, right. Anyway on Long Island, that's available on YouTube We had the

49:37

Marian doctrines debate with Jerry Matic still a classic. It's a little bit tough to listen to simply because it

49:45

You know, it was a long time ago when it was recorded So that's that's sort of how how it works

49:54

But That's why I've addressed these things and that's why

49:59

I have the little book Mary another Redeemer Which helps to explain these things these are

50:06

Open Doors through which we can bring the gospel if we are prepared if we have the keys

50:14

To those doors and to unlock them and so this is again this

50:20

Once you listen to that then you understand when I talk about the divisions that exist between us

50:29

They are not divisions of our making They are divisions of Rome's making

50:35

Rome is the one that will not repent of Having defined as dogma things that were unknown

50:44

To the biblical authors unknown the first centuries of the Christian faith This this is these dogmas, especially the last two

50:52

Marian dogmas and the concept of papal infallibility These are beliefs

50:58

That to call them Apostolic is to make the term apostolic meaningless just all there is to it and Given the dogma of infallibility

51:13

How can Rome be reformed? How can Rome recognize its own errors at this point?

51:22

That is a question that that a lot of people have and so excellent illustration

51:31

No, you know we could go through each one of these texts, you know the woman in the clothes the Sun Revelation chapter 12

51:37

You know, I remember specifically where I was when I was listening to Staples attempt to piece that one together and not dealing fully or properly with the reality that even the early church did not view it in the way that they view it today and That there are so many problems with the application of this to Mary So many of these things but again as we've said before Given the huge edifice of theology that Rome has defined around Mary if it can be twisted

52:13

Into some type of support for a Marian dogma It will be it has to be because they have so they have so little if it's a woman you gotta do something with it

52:21

That must be Mary So That's the the very essence of what you have in in Roman Catholic Theology because of a denial of solo scripture, so there you go next video is

52:42

Was posted by some some Muslim friends yesterday Well, I'm not sure if it was posted yesterday, but I was directed to it.

52:50

Well, I saw it anyways and It's interesting because I just did a debate in Lin Asia, South Africa just a few weeks ago on the subject of the crucifixion of Jesus rather relevant with Resurrection Sunday coming up And I mentioned that was this this would make some good dividing line and and I and I Assume the

53:17

Muslim who's doing the questions. I assume that was him What's on Facebook? Who knows? I Had some exchanges last night tried to keep them as civil as possible.

53:27

It got a little weird because he went off into Asking me about Tajweed, which is how you know the the

53:36

Methodology and the rather complicated set of rules by which you in essence chant or sing

53:43

The text of the Quran in fact when Rudolph and I were in a Muslim bookstore in Inland Asia we found a

53:53

Quran color -coded for Tajweed So it as you go through it has different color codes for how you're supposed to pronounce and which vowels you're supposed to elongate

54:03

And then the whole night whole nine yards Those who are very good at it are very very good at it and those who are not anyway

54:11

Ended up going off into well Why would we all have the same Tajweed rules if if it's not changed weren't accurate and stuff and it really got a little odd but anyway, the well

54:25

These are younger guys and and maybe it's just a Generational thing

54:33

But so I'll just I'll just mention that the kind of humor inserted here

54:41

Doesn't do anything for me in fact it it it's very negative from my perspective and Is is not appropriate for the the gravity of the of the subject

54:54

That didn't seem to communicate or well, but here let's just take a look at it and you'll see what

55:00

I mean if we take your line of logic and I hope that you attend the debate that we have on the 15th on a

55:06

Crucifixion because I'm gonna show you something about history, but if you take your line of logic Can you give me any first century eyewitness testimony to the crucifixion outside of Jewish literature?

55:18

I mean, that's like Christian literature. Nope Can you give me any first century eyewitness testimony to the crucifixion outside of Jewish literature

55:33

I mean, that's like Christian literature Nope, I know you can't

55:43

You do realize that 90 okay now what I pointed out was the question is not

55:54

Historically valid Can you give me The utilization of that kind of a standard would mean that we know absolutely nothing not only about everything that happened in history

56:07

Because the farther back you go The the amount of human history where we actually have eyewitness testimony is

56:18

Is One one millionth of 1 % maybe

56:25

But history happened The other ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine nine nine percent of history did happen

56:32

The reality is that CNN Fox News, these are new things and It is a failure

56:45

I think of modern thinking To think that you have to have this type of eyewitness

56:51

Testimony, and of course if you follow Bart Ehrman even eyewitness testimony is fairly irrelevant as well but Then there was the artificial limitation to non -christian sources well

57:07

Not now now we're going into an area of the world where there's next to no

57:16

First -hand historical sources in the first century you get rid of Josephus and a few references and Tacitus and Pliny and stuff like you've got almost nothing and Then cut out

57:30

What even Muhammad was dependent upon? Well, okay the author of the

57:35

Quran depended upon a lot of things many of which were not historical sources But the author of the

57:41

Quran thought they were Which is something I think I've not seen too many people taking overly seriously the utilization of historically fraudulent sources accepted as fact

57:53

By by the author of the Quran I think that's an issue y 'all might want to spend a little more time on but bit as it may you you take out the the one set of sources that Historians recognize are absolutely necessary to know anything about the life of Jesus and That is the

58:15

Christian sources We have ancient biographies written of Jesus and guess what they all happen to be

58:23

Unified in what fact that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate Outside of Jerusalem at the beginning of the fourth decade of the first century and that's why even harshest critics like Bart Ehrman John Dominic Crossan Say that the firmest

58:45

Historical fact of Jesus's life is in fact his crucifixion There's only no question about this

58:53

And it's it's it's very obvious to me

59:00

That if it were not for surah 4 157 You would not have videos like this being made

59:08

If we're not for 40 Arabic words You would not have videos like this being made and I pointed out that Utilization of the same standard means we know nothing about Muhammad's life either.

59:22

So What if I were to say that? Give me an eyewitness of any of the major events in Muhammad's life from the

59:33

Mirage the Hijra The death of Muhammad the giving of any of the of the sections of the of the

59:42

Quran Give me eyewitness testimony outside of Muslim sources.

59:47

You have nothing And I don't even have to limit it to the first century there.

59:53

I go way beyond that Which is odd given how much more recent

01:00:00

Islamic history is then New Testament history is let alone Old Testament history So in other words, there's a there's a half -millennium difference there, which should give us earlier sources

01:00:13

Because we're closer to the time period so it just And and it didn't seem to me that my

01:00:23

Muslim friend heard What we hear and we say something like that. In fact, he seemed to take offense that I I Use the term humor or mocking but when you use sound effects that don't they're there that's from Price is right.

01:00:38

That's when you get something wrong. The price is right and And you've got and then you got someone

01:00:43

Stunt double doing a face plant or a hand palm face palm, whatever

01:00:53

I Suppose you think that's making your point. Maybe the people you're trying to reach that's gonna make the point to me, it's rather juvenile and and and rather childish and What it what it does is is it again illustrates?

01:01:12

That the standards that are being used here are not not the appropriate standards so You know,

01:01:22

I I Realize that there are some benefits to Facebook and To communication with people by that means

01:01:30

I hate Facebook comment boxes I really do they're next to impossible to follow

01:01:37

I only realized some of the comments that were being made about the David Allen invitation

01:01:43

Because I saw comments in our chat channel And I'm like, where are these things for some reason whatever's posted on our page does not come up my feed

01:01:50

I don't know why it's supposed to at least I thought I was supposed to I had to go looking for it and even then

01:01:57

My my Muslim interlocutor may have responded to me but I don't know if he did or didn't because Once you go to bed you get up the next morning who has the time to sit there and scroll through all the notes

01:02:10

I wonder if they I Don't know I've tried to do

01:02:16

Serious interactions before and I spent a lot of time writing last evening And these days I have to write in a word processor and then paste it in because no matter what

01:02:24

I do the font size in Facebook is becoming just way too small my eyes are getting older and I even changed the

01:02:34

Resolution on my main laptop screen to try to get it bigger, which means less space and So He may have respond.

01:02:44

I don't know I could trying to find that kind of stuff. I don't have time to do it, unfortunately but my my point in In responding to him was that this is not a serious when when when the historiographical methodology that you're utilizing to criticize

01:03:05

Christianity is Just as valid against your own position now his responses by the way I'll tell you what his response was to point to is not change.

01:03:12

It wasn't it's not change the Sanad is Every if you've heard me reading from Well last week

01:03:21

I read when I talked about Surah 9 I read

01:03:29

From you read to you some hadith material and Every hadith starts off and most of them you don't even read all of them but but every he starts off with it was narrated by so -and -so to so -and -so to so -and -so and That's the it's not chain and in the in the

01:03:51

Muslim mind That's vitally important. You Christians don't have it. We have it and that makes our hadith literature reliable and what was interesting

01:04:00

I Wrote back. I said, uh You know,

01:04:06

I even asked and this was one of the things was disappointing I Would bend over backwards to be very careful and to be very fair For example,

01:04:15

I asked him Some people say that Bukhari the greatest of the

01:04:24

Scholars of of hadith the muhadith

01:04:31

The Bukhari examined six hundred thousand Hadith statements and only accepted less than ten thousand as Accurate as Sahi Much less than ten thousand.

01:04:49

It's what sixty nine hundred something like that. I forgot what the numbers anyway that means the vast majority of Hadith in his opinion that existed 275 300 years after the time

01:05:05

Muhammad they were all fraudulent Wow, that's a lot

01:05:11

That that's a huge that that'd be like us having What five six hundred

01:05:17

Gospels? And we only chose four That's not what happened, but that would be a similar type thing and I had expressed the fact that the hadith literature may provide

01:05:37

Muslims with a fair amount of Confidence but outside of Islamic circles

01:05:45

Just having this not chain just doesn't mean anything it if you can't

01:05:50

You still you still have a very tertiary source claiming things that you cannot document

01:05:57

You cannot prove that this person who makes this claim that the

01:06:03

Second person third person fourth person online actually said the things they said it's all hearsay and So the response that came back and you know, and I even asked

01:06:16

I'm not sure what numbers you use Because I've heard some Muslim saying no, it wasn't six hundred thousand. It was much smaller now

01:06:22

Okay, I even asked what numbers do you use? We'll use your numbers. I won't even and I and every time

01:06:28

I Put that level of specificity in it just got ignored which which made a little frustrating and sort of why am

01:06:36

I going to? Invest more time in this when much of what I'm being said, but what's what I'm saying is just being ignored

01:06:44

So I was a little frustrating. But anyways The response was, you know, I've never gotten a

01:06:49

Christian answer this question You reject all oral tradition and yet clearly there was a time the

01:06:55

New Testament was Transmitted because he went through the dates of the of the Gospels like that So what do you do up until the first Gospels get you would have had nothing because you reject all oral tradition

01:07:03

I don't reject oral tradition. I Don't think I Have it in here right now

01:07:10

I used to have it in here But yeah, oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold on.

01:07:15

It's on its side. Is this it? GS &I witnesses

01:07:23

Richard Balcom. I wrote the CRI review of this years ago for the CRE Journal. That's a fairly hefty book

01:07:30

Got a lot of people talking Richard Balcom now look here's another instance. Do I agree with Richard Balcom about everything?

01:07:38

No, I don't but the wonderful thing is when you when you break out of the fundamentalist mindset

01:07:47

You can learn to appreciate what other people have to say without agreeing with every single word that they say it's a wonderful thing and that's why you can have disagreements with me about stuff and Still get positive stuff out of this program.

01:08:02

It's a wonderful thing, though I still understand why if you reject Reformed Theology, but anyways, that's another issue You know,

01:08:08

I talked about Richard Balcom. I talked about the importance of oral tradition I went through issues of dating of the of the

01:08:16

Gospels and You know provide a big long response But it's amazing how quickly we moved from the inconsistency of Asking the question that was asked to Subjects far far afield from that and that's sort of what happens.

01:08:35

It's almost like the internet breeds an inability to remain focused

01:08:42

Upon a particular subject for any lengthy period of time and there are studies that are saying that that's exactly what it does

01:08:47

That because of the multi sensory input from all these different sources that it's literally destroying our ability to what was

01:08:55

I saying? Yeah to focus upon anything for any period of time at all and which may be why

01:09:01

It's really unusual for people to have programs that are like today gonna be 90 minutes long If we go that long, well, we'll see

01:09:10

But So I think it's important for our Muslim friends to understand where we're coming from on this and When it comes to the issue of the crucifixion

01:09:23

You are standing against As far as I can see all of history because the only people that I know of who

01:09:36

Reject the crucifixion of Christ are mythicists Who don't believe that Jesus existed and you you don't want to go there as a

01:09:46

Muslim. You can't go there as a Muslim and the early Gnostics Who reject the crucifixion because they did not believe

01:09:55

Jesus had a physical body when you can't go there either And that's the only reason they did it they didn't have any historical issues they didn't have any the

01:10:04

Gnosticism was unconcerned about Who pilot was or?

01:10:11

Geography history chronology doesn't matter to a Gnostic you don't care and so other than that Everybody everybody who

01:10:25

Said anything for the first hundred years. Well, everybody who said anything first hundred years all affirmed crucifixion wasn't even a question

01:10:33

After that, the only people you get questioning it are Gnostics For theological mythological reasons and then in the modern day you have your mythicists but other than that look if you don't if you don't have

01:10:54

Confidence in The historical reality crucifixion you cannot have confidence anything in history

01:11:00

You might as well just stop pretending that you're doing history And of course the normal thing at that point is that they then connect the crucifixion to the resurrection and try to cast doubt upon the crucifixion by doubting the supernatural

01:11:17

Nature of the resurrection which again, that's exactly what Sammy's author. He did in London. That's not an option for Muslims You're super naturalist.

01:11:25

I I think you forget that every once in a while when dealing with with Christianity, but That's that's that's what happens.

01:11:33

So there's there's another one Then let me see if I can find this

01:11:40

You know, this is this really one of the only reasons that I Stick with With Twitter You know, there's there's some folks there's just a there's a couple folks out there that send me good stuff and Then there's all the other stuff where there are people

01:12:00

Who seem to think that it's faster to? Send a tweet and ask me to Google things for them than it is for them to Google it which

01:12:08

I've never quite understood I Suppose we all get lazy at times, but man,

01:12:15

I'll tell you sometimes It gets a little bit strange but I have discovered that I have a tremendous amount of power and authority

01:12:25

I Discovered it today The jack chick guy,

01:12:33

I don't even know what his name is to be pretty honest with you, but there's a bearded King James only

01:12:39

Sinaiticus was a fake Every conspiracy theory under the planet type guy

01:12:47

At least he's not well, I don't know he could be a flat earther possible

01:12:54

I Did not realize How many flat earthers there were? That's scary.

01:13:00

That is frightening to me. Yeah, especially when you get folks on Twitter go now you should be really nice There's some good

01:13:07

Christian people and you just want to go Might you know not it's it's oh, it's it's always

01:13:14

I'm asking for a friend You know, yeah, that's not me, but I'm asking for a friend and there's some there's some great folks.

01:13:23

Well, oh Yeah, yeah. Yeah Some things are there are just some things you just you just go

01:13:37

It's one thing to Recognize that we're not all gonna agree in this world and there are things that that we can disagree about and that's okay and then there's just stuff like Why?

01:13:55

You know part of it's my science background which they would say you've been you've been brainwashed no, no, it's really not that You know,

01:14:05

I remember And this has nothing to do with what I was saying, but just Hit my thinking

01:14:12

Remember, I would imagine this was just all conspiracy theory never happened, but there's about four or five years ago we had a meteor come through and NASA had been planning on this for a long time.

01:14:24

And so we fired a rocket off and I Followed it online.

01:14:31

It was really fascinating But they did a thing where the the the ship broke into two and sort of a refrigerator size piece went first and then the trailing camera and so the it hits the meteor and Then the trailing thing is taking pictures because by hitting it they could tell how far it went in Spectral analysis of what comes out they could learn a lot from the booth that the result from it, but the the mathematics this thing's flying along at like I don't know 30 ,000 miles per hour and it's

01:15:15

I don't know how many millions of miles away and It reminds me of what Scotty said about Twice in Star Trek now in the new

01:15:24

Star Trek movies. He's done this really hilarious thing The first time was about beaming onto a warp ship and like, you know and then the other one was like jumping off of a of a

01:15:37

Bridge into your shot glass or something along these lines. That was in the last thing.

01:15:42

It was in the last movie and Anyways that the point being next to impossible to do well, we pulled it off You can't do that if Geocentrism is true because all the gravity stuff is all off and If the flat earth theory is true, so I guess they just have to figure all that kind of stuff is just one huge conspiracy theory and I'm gonna tell you something talking to conspiracy folks

01:16:18

Just doesn't matter well, I discovered that I I'm a part of a huge conspiracy

01:16:27

You did Really Not from him, oh

01:16:38

Oh if we're talking about the same thing the jack shit guy well

01:16:45

It's not a it's not a secret Since we've talked about in the program before That You know,

01:16:54

I've talked about Leviticus 1920 I've talked about this issue I Don't want bore people with it anymore but some of the

01:17:02

King James only guys have discovered that That I have body art, you know, I've got a got some ink and So They've already identified me as the

01:17:16

Antichrist So, I guess it's consistent But I guess there's a video that was just posted

01:17:25

From this guy and I am preparing the world to receive

01:17:32

The mark of the beast. I'm sorry. I was gonna try to keep my streets keep a straight face

01:17:41

Here's my problem. Here's my problem Now here's a King James only guy so They don't

01:17:51

Like this isn't new news But I thought all the the the cool

01:18:04

Rapture mark of the beast guys Had come to conclusion that the mark of the beast was going to be electronic like a subcutaneous chip type thing

01:18:17

Not that it was going to be Something as low -tech as a

01:18:23

Bar code, you know stamped on your forehead or something. I thought they had come to the realization that Technologically speaking the way you could track everybody would be with like a

01:18:34

GPS transponder type thing Like you have in well, they did it, you know, they did it in Star Trek.

01:18:43

I don't know if you remember the one where Kirk and Spock I think it was one where they beamed down to the

01:18:50

Nazi planet They bones did a thing and put a little tracer type thing, you know, they could be traced type thing

01:18:56

I think that was the one it was in anyway So it's the idea of the technology.

01:19:02

Of course Star Trek was ahead of its time at that point in time, but 007

01:19:08

I think has has done the same type of thing and you know, it's it's it's all over the place

01:19:13

So I was I was really a little shocked that they'd go low -tech like that but that that's

01:19:21

That I'm somehow. Oh, are you am I needing to what so the phone call

01:19:26

I got this morning? Yes was Referencing that now I haven't seen this video and and the fellow said that apparently proof of this is that you don't believe in the

01:19:35

Rapture Oh So and I and I'm like well

01:19:41

Yeah, there's a lot a lot a lot a lot of people that don't believe in the pretty much and you know, but How does that relate to the other and he swallowed apparently it's all tied together and I don't know but it's yeah

01:19:56

Tied together is the is the issue. Yeah tied with what? It's all tied together it all goes together.

01:20:07

Yeah, and I and I And and the fellow who's the Chad on Twitter when

01:20:14

I Responded to that said something along the lines of they never cease to amaze me I have to wonder how people like this can even function normal day -to -day living and remember

01:20:23

Will Kinney Remember the King James like I will Kenny when we did in this very room, though.

01:20:28

It looked very different back then I Remember sitting pretty much right here.

01:20:34

There's probably a little bit more back this way. I think back then but We had that it's it's still available on YouTube we had that Conversation about was in my book

01:20:50

About Greek manuscripts and Even when it was explained to him with tremendous clarity

01:21:01

He just simply would not acknowledge what was right in front of him and I remember asking him

01:21:07

Sir do you function in society? Do you drive a car? Do you have a job?

01:21:14

Because I don't know how you could Have a job and drive a car and think the way that that man

01:21:22

Thought then and from what I see on online continues to think to this day.

01:21:28

It was truly Astounding and rather rather scary really was

01:21:36

Because we sit here and go yeah, right you're preparing the world for the mark of the beast

01:21:42

Sure. Okay. Yeah that fits We have a hard time taking it seriously these this is the world these folks live in What what must the church is there in be like?

01:21:55

where Everybody gets to come up with their own new A Wild -eyed conspiracy theory.

01:22:03

That's why flat -earth ism Has the audience that has is that kind of mindset?

01:22:10

I Bet you anything King James only ism and flat -earth ism are directly related.

01:22:17

I'll bet you there's because there's always conspiracy theories about the

01:22:23

Greek septuagen and origin and in all the rest of stuff and I wonder if the black

01:22:28

Hebrew Israelites are That would be a perfect fit. That'd be an absolutely perfect fit

01:22:37

Not only that but if if King James If you could come up with the idea that King James was a black man

01:22:44

Then you can come up with any kind of conspiracy theory that you want. Yeah. Yeah, so Yeah, yeah

01:22:53

King James only ism. It's oh, yeah, and then Someone in channel just post this and I saw this

01:23:01

I'm glad you mentioned it Charisma news what to do if you miss the rapture.

01:23:10

Did you see that? I read this yesterday and I just I just had to go.

01:23:17

You know what? That's pretty much what I would have said when

01:23:23

I was 18 Here's here's this is charisma news.

01:23:28

This is serious. This is from Dr. Dave Williams. Dr. Dave Williams. I don't know who he is, but Let me give you 20 pieces of counsel to survive this terrible time if you missed

01:23:40

God's first round up Never heard that before the first first round up It sort of sounds like something would be big up in Prescott, but the first round up anyways

01:23:51

The rapture one do not believe the explanations given by the secular media I would say that's probably true right now for pretty much everything

01:23:59

Get rid of your cell phone Get rid of your cell phone Your cell phone can be tracked throw it in a river or lake far from where you're going to be

01:24:09

Number three do not kill yourself. I Sort of figured that one might need to be number one for some logical reason, you know

01:24:21

Just just in case you get ahead of things Yeah For some reason he calls this the the final

01:24:28

Shabuha Sorry, don't know what the Shabuha is. I don't watch channel 21

01:24:34

So I haven't kept up with the Hal Lindsey stuff three repent immediately and make peace make your peace with God Now this is interesting because there's some theories that say the

01:24:43

Holy Spirit's been withdrawn and I'm not sure how you could do that And anyway number five make sure you have a printed

01:24:49

Bible You will not want any electronic tablets during the tribulation

01:24:56

God's Word and promises still will still work after the rapture because Jesus said heaven earth will pass away

01:25:02

But my words never pass away keep a Bible a safe place because when the Antichrist government takes over he will eventually try to destroy all

01:25:08

Bibles This I love this make sure you read

01:25:14

Daniel chapters 2 through 12. Yeah, that's the first thing you want to tell a new convert Chapter 12 would give you the general time

01:25:21

Jesus is coming the second time Nevermind read

01:25:26

Matthew 24 mark 13 first Thessalonians 5 second Thessalonians 2 and Revelation in other words skip all the gospel stuff

01:25:34

Guess it's no longer relevant. Hey, leave your home and get away from the cities, especially the big cities

01:25:42

Pray for God to give you help and give you strength don't go to church Because the all the churches will be apostate obviously

01:25:55

Number nine get a small Self -powered radio Well, that's actually a good idea.

01:26:00

I have one. I have one of those ones you can and you know Keep praying for your loved ones who are unbelievers assuming you've now become a believer

01:26:10

Leave copies of this list as many people as you can. Okay Oh Drat, that's 11.

01:26:21

It says stay tuned for part 2. Well, what if the rapture happens before part 2 gets published? Now you're in trouble.

01:26:28

Oh, man Anyway, I found that fascinating Because I've told the story before I don't do

01:26:38

I had somebody last week say you need every tweet I did for like an hour. He responded to all eschatology all eschatology all eschatology finally wrote back

01:26:46

What are you doing and he's like you need to talk more about eschatology. I said I don't do eschatology

01:26:53

I've talked about it. Don't get into that But I've told the story about how my

01:27:03

Junior or senior year in high school. I had one of these tritium watches and Tritium is radioactive, but it's alpha particles.

01:27:13

So we're cool And it glows really nicely and it was actually bright enough that I could take my little

01:27:19

Greek I'm not my little New Testament had learned Greek yet And I could I could hold my watch face up to it and I could just barely read it we were doing this lock -in at the

01:27:29

Big Baptist Church where I was and I remember like it one o 'clock in the morning before we all finally

01:27:36

Passed out from exhaustion. I remember Explained everybody that it looked like 1984 would have to be the wrap -up time because in Matthew chapter 24 one generation from the

01:27:57

Hearing strange noises in here one generation must be the rapture one generation from the

01:28:05

Budding of the olive tree Which was the reestablishment of the Nation of Israel in 1948. So it's 1988.

01:28:11

That's right. That's right 1988 because it was already like 19 Yeah, 88. Yeah 88 reasons why it was 1988

01:28:19

I Don't know there was a track that was put on all the all the There was a little booklet that was put on all the cars at North Phoenix Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was a big thing it's a big thing night 88 reasons why 1988 all those seconds

01:28:35

So if I had been asked questions If I had been asked well, what if I miss it? What do

01:28:40

I do? Yeah, I the cell phone thing wouldn't been relevant because we didn't have them yet so things of things have changed but That's pretty much.

01:28:50

Yeah, that's that's what we would have, you know I'm still one of those folks that can see that lawnmower sitting there running

01:28:59

Right, right the unmanned lawnmower if you know what that is, then you then you know what

01:29:05

I mean thief in the night man Play that thing it gets done right at midnight and you can freak everybody out

01:29:13

That's true, it's true Especially the teenagers. Yep. Yep big time big time.

01:29:20

Yep, whatever so Some of your I've got so I've got somebody Saying am

01:29:28

I the only rapture believing Christian who watches you? No There are different forms of eschatology we have

01:29:38

We have folks who watch this program who are post -millennial us We have folks who watch this program who are on millennialists as I am

01:29:47

We have folks who watch this program who are historic premillennialists like Spurgeon was and We even have a few dispensational premillennialists who are part of the the program as well and It is

01:30:08

Dispensational premillennialism that has been so widely disseminated and so widely abused especially within charismatic circles

01:30:18

Where the vast majority of them don't even know there's any other perspective I didn't know there was any other perspective either for that matter until I was in Bible College So there you go

01:30:32

But If you read historically you will get different perspectives and That would be a good thing good.

01:30:43

Oh, and then we have a bunch of folks who are pan millennialists who believe it'll all pan out in the end and That's that's probably a pretty safe safe place to go.

01:30:52

So anyway, so with with all of that We will be back with you

01:30:58

Lord willing I've got a radio program to do on Thursday, so Thursday morning,

01:31:03

I think so might end up doing a morning type thing on Thursday. We'll see. We'll see We'll see how it all works out.