Hypocrisy of the Secularists

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line

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The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence

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Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed

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Baptist Church This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with dr.

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White call now. It's 602 973 4602 or toll -free across the

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United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 And now with today's topic here is

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James White Tiger Woods will recover as a golfer whether he can recover as a person

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I think is a very open question and we're and it's a tragic situation with him. I think he's lost his family It's not clear to me that what it'll be able to have a relationship with his children

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But the but the Tiger Woods that emerges once the news value dies out of this scandal The extent to which he can recover it seems to me depends on his faith.

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He's said to be a Buddhist I don't think that faith offers the kind of forgiveness and redemption that is offered by the

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Christian faith So my message to Tiger would be Tiger turn your face turn to the

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Christian faith And you can make a total recovery and be a great example to the world

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Well Brits concerned about Tigers soul, which is admirable I just made a more straightforward sports prediction which is that he'll come back and win the

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Masters because you know, he's still not a good golfer despite the chaos and bad news about his personal life

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Now what kind of reaction did you get when you said that you get a lot of letters and emails and things? I got some letters and emails from people who were like me or believers who said great wait on right on way to go

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I've heard a lot of unfavorable comment from people who claim that I was a pompous jerk who had no business Mouthing off on the subject and that I shouldn't have belittled the

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Buddhist faith and so on I really wasn't trying to deliver. I don't think so. What drives a mini? What do you think drives the negative comments about?

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You know Buddhism aside. I don't think we're trying to denigrate Buddhism. But what do you think drives the negative? Comments about Christianity.

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It has always been a puzzling thing to me. Well, the Bible even speaks of it that That you know, you speak the name

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Jesus Christ and I don't and I don't mean to make a pun here But all hell breaks loose and and it it has always been us it is explosive I didn't even say the name in that way

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I simply spoke of the Christian faith, but that was enough to trigger this reaction It triggers a very powerful reaction in people who do not share the faith and who did not believe in it

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All right, everybody. Thanks very much. We appreciate it Obviously That wasn't me.

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Someone is channel going. Wow, James sounds like Brit Hume all of a sudden You've probably heard the first clip which

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I guess was from Fox News Sunday and Brit Hume in the sports predictions in essence saying

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Tiger Woods Buddhism doesn't offer you forgiveness, but Christianity does and And even on NBC this morning the

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Today Show in Covering, you know the daily segment of the Tiger Woods saga, which

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I almost never have on I just happened to this morning, especially because I was wondering if they might do this

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They present it, you know and just as secular media people do

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It's just that crazy Brit Hume, you know, he's he's nuts he's lost it he's out there in the in the in the crazy zone

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You have to realize The the primary nature of Brit Hume's heresy

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Because that's why there has been such, you know, a totally expected backlash in the media

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I was told I saw I think someone tweeted this morning That over at Richard Dawkins net they were going insane

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Which you'd expect the atheists to go insane as soon as you say the name of Jesus, they will go insane they are they are to Secularistic materialism what

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Torquemada was to the Inquisition. I mean those folks are so far out there. They want us to be

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Charged with child abuse for introducing our children to any type of religious thought they are they are the

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Best example I could think of of where secularism really wants to go but you need to understand

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Brit Hume's primary heresy Yes, there is heresy in what he said because it assumes

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That there is truth in religion that there is that that one religious opinion is is better than another religious opinion

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Which of course is heretical from our society's perspective But that wasn't the primary heresy.

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It's there But the primary heresy you need to understand is the fact that he uttered these words in the inner holy sanctum of secularism called the media it was

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Where he said it the very fact that he would say it in that context with cameras rolling

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Knowing that there wasn't anything that anybody could do about they couldn't cut to a commercial they couldn't bail out on him

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He said what he said it was a 54 second clip less than a minute But you just need to understand for secularists for the naturalistic materialists of the world

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That was a heretical act it was a clear violation of What is acceptable from their perspective they are offended

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That someone would dare to speak a word about Christianity in that context now

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I don't know anything about Brit Hume's theology. I don't know where he goes church But he didn't say anything outside of the basic statement that is a true statement and that is

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Buddhism does not offer redemption and classical historical

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Buddhist theology doesn't it may offer a way out of a sexual addiction in the sense of teaching you or at least instructing you as to how to Allegedly rid yourself of these desires.

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I would argue that it accomplishes nothing along those lines, but the idea of redemption is

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Is really only accomplished through many lives of reincarnation The idea of redemption as Brit Hume was using the word is not there

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So it was a factual statement in regards to the contrast that he drew and The main thing that angers people would would be that anyone would dare to think that Tiger Woods should repent and believe

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Which of course is the Christian message which You all have your religious broadcasting you all have your church

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Keep it out of the public sphere we the secularists reign here and we will rule with an iron fist and once again parents as You talk with your children

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Believers as you talk together in the church You must keep reminding one another

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Secularism is just as much a world view It is just as much the maker of priorities in thought and action as any

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Theistic religion it is a religion. It's just a non theistic religion and Yet it is demanding that the the governmental structures of Western societies

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Promulgate its Fundamental tenets with our tax money and that we are to be silent about these things that is

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Here's just another example. I mean you can come up with these on a regular basis not quite as high -profile as this

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But you can come up with this kind of example over and over and over again This the

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Scuttlebutt I'd heard this morning was there was two trains of thought flying around the liberal bloggers today and the number one one

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Was apparently repeated on MSNBC and that was you know, didn't your mother always tell you that?

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You're not to speak about religion in public And that this was the great sin because Brigham spoke of his religion in public

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On a politics show and that's the next thing they went with and that was by Speaking about his religion on a show about politics.

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Did he not degrade? The his religion that should have been sanctified in the pulpit instead

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Pure absurdity again just based upon the idea that look this is only stuff that you can talk about Within the confines of Your church building it is not allowed out here where the rest of us are.

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We will be offended. Well, excuse me. Mr Secularist I am offended at your secularism I am offended at your discussion of the world that my

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Lord created where you deny him you offend me every Single day now, we are equally offended.

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Can we grow up enough to get past that and discuss the truth, please? It is a fundamental

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Immaturity on the part of the thinking of the secularist to behave in this fashion and all you gotta do is look at the wild -eyed leftist blogs today, and you will see the childlike nature of so much of this kind of behavior it is

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It is an amazing thing to to observe but It's something we must think about we must we must over and over and over again with our children with each other point out the times when people who are absolutely fundamentalist secularists

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Demand that their worldview be given the priority their world be their worldview be given

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Support out of the public coffers and be made the religion of the nation But then we are to just shut up.

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We have to point these things out We have to recognize these things and think about these things and be able to talk with others about them because as irrational as the postmodern mindset is

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The person you're talking to is still create an image of God. There is still that conscience in there there is still that that Imago Dei that we can appeal to so Just just a thought as I was considering this this morning.

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It was first thing that popped up clip from well the original statement and then O 'Reilly talking to him about it.

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I guess last evening something like that. I'm not sure when it was probably last night I had not caught that but it is interesting to look at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

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I do have my Twitter fixed I Tried to install

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A tweet deck on this unit and It just blue -screened

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Blue screen of death every single time you tried to run the installer just ain't going it

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I have been given the okay to put together a system and give it to mr Pierce to put on the blog and the and the shopping cart to Update this system that is sitting in front of me those of you who watch maybe some of the

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YouTube videos you'll see the the computer down there. Well, it's a very old Windows unit and it unfortunately are there sometimes

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I ask it for a a Browser window a couple days ago or last week.

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I asked her for a browser window and I checked it. It took 91 seconds a

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Lot of people while you're on this topic from a lot of folks don't necessarily Realize that kind of marvel at how much we get done around here.

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Yes, and just being two of us and Well, there's that there's somebody hiding behind. Well every now and then we get the volunteer we get the random volunteer and But and he's pretty random a lot of cases.

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They don't realize we rely very heavily on technology Oh, yeah, and we have for four years and for longest time

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We relied on that with a very shoestring budget one EMP and we're done. Oh But we

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We we were building the machines just like I said in the dividing line machine which arrived today in the boxes

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So we're gonna start putting it together soon. And do you are you gonna try to get it? Are you gonna try to get it in by Thursday?

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Oh, no That's just but that's no, you know if I get him in and up and running by the end of the month

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I'll really be happy We rely heavily on it, but we also rely heavily on time and it's end of year and all that happening as well

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So I've got a number of hats to wear but you know Like you said 90 seconds to bring up a browser window, of course, you know

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We might want to actually try to run something on that like, you know, maybe Defrag or something like that.

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Oh, believe me. I Run it constantly. It's just an old machine. It's it the mouse is very tired

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It had problems when I first got it to be honest. I've nursed this baby along for a long long time

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It's many years old. I've asked it to do many many things it's right now sitting here showing the parking lot the phones the chat channel and Bible program and then playing those videos so, you know

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It wasn't the top of the line. We got the first time so Make a long story short then

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Obviously normally what we do is we we do the hand -me -down thing for years. You did the hand -me -down thing yeah,

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I'd give you whatever I had just upgraded from and But now as of August of 2008,

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I saw the lights I experienced Freedom from yes freedom from slavery and now

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I have a Macintosh and So make a long story short It would solve a lot of things to bring my current unit in here to the dividing line studio

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And use it as my unit for the dividing line, which of course means getting one that I would then be using regularly outside of that So we'll work toward that end

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Wanted to have a little bigger hard drive so I could do the videos, especially when I'm on the road anyway we'll be talking about that, but I did fix my

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Twitter problem that I had last time. I really want to Apologize to everyone who did send me questions on New Year's Eve By Twitter, I just couldn't see them.

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I wasn't set up properly on the web to see them, right? I now have installed echo fun or echo phone or whatever it is

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On this unit and it's running under Mozilla Firefox. And so I think it'll work

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So if you you want to try dr. Oakley 1689 should work today

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I should be able to see it coming up and Utilize it that way now before we go to any of our phone calls, which you only have one at the moment

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I'm not sure. It's gonna be coming through anyways, I promised something on New Year's Eve and I I want to follow through and it is somewhat indicative of Our Program and what we do here that we are going to go from a a

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Brit Hume clip To a discussion of the actual

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Arabic text of the Quran Only on the dividing line would you go from Brit Hume telling

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Tiger Woods? He needs to repent To a discussion like this, but I'm not sure that there's really all that much of a contradiction there

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Because as you will recall on the last program a caller was asking about And I've got

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I've got a ton of books sitting here One of them I actually this

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This commentary here this the message of the Quran by Assad Muhammad Assad I'm holding it with one arm, but can just barely do that.

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I actually weighed this thing today I I got on a scale and then I I picked that thing up ten and a half pounds

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Just that one commentary. The thing is huge. The paper is really really nice, but it's also very very heavy

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Anyway, I took the time to do what I said I would do We had been discussing

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Surah 9 29 and You will hear surah 9 29

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Probably more than any other ayah in the entirety of the Quran on I heard somebody make reference to it last night on a talk radio program

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You can tell that 99 % of the people citing surah 9 29 have never read the rest of surah 9 or any of the rest of Quran, but they've just found it and They just keep recording, you know recording it over and over and over again and If you are familiar with it, it is

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Surah 9 is the last of the surahs at least close to the last of the surahs that was revealed to the

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Prophet Muhammad according to Islamic sources and If we read the text

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We Know just backing up a little bit because it's always good to get a little bit of context beginning verse 28

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Oh you who believe truly the pagans are unclean So let them not after this years of theirs approach the sacred mosque

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And if you fear poverty soon will God enrich you and if he wills out of his bounty for God is all -knowing all -wise now this then becomes a basis upon which

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Today unbelievers are not even allowed in Mecca Non -muslims are not allowed in Mecca and You you have the very

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Strange situation where Christian churches cannot be built and freedom of worship is denied and so on so forth because it's considered a holy place a lot of This would go back to surah 9 28 then surah 9 29

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Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his

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Apostle Nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are of the people of the book the al -kitab the al -kitab of the

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Jews and the Christians Until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued

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Subdued while whom saga dune and What I mentioned a couple times in the past was a few months ago

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My Arabic tutor and I were reading through surah 7 and I believe believe surah 32 is the parallel passage and the casting out of Iblis Satan for refusing to bow down before Adam which is in and of itself a rather interesting section and We had a caller call in and he's wanting to know because I had mentioned that the same term that is

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This rendered their subdued feel themselves subdued was found in that parallel text in reference to Satan and I wanted to make sure exactly what

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I was referring to and and so I Wanted to double -check things if you look at surah 7 in in the

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Quran Beginning at about Let's say ayah 11 it is we who created you and gave you shape

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Then we bade the angels bowed down to Adam and they bowed down not so Iblis He refused to be of those who bowed down God said what prevented thee from bowing down when

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I commanded thee he said I am better than he Thou didst create me from fire and him from clay

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Allah says get thee down from this it is not easy to get thee down It is not for thee to be arrogant

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Here get out for thou art of the meanest of creatures. Now. This is a

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I believe the use of folly translation It's you know usable But that is this the same the same

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Arabic root that is found there. You are the meanest You that's a horrible translation in essence.

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What he's saying is you are Humiliated You you are being cast out being put down you can tell this by the next ayah which says he said give me respite till the day they are raised up and God said be thou among those who have respite and So Iblis says because thou has thrown me out of the way lo

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I will lie and wait for them on this on thy straight way Then will I assault them from before them and behind them from their right and their left?

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Nor wilt thou find in most of them gratitude for thy mercies God said get out from this disgraced and expelled if any of them follow thee hell will

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I fill with you all and So there is the section from surah 7 now if you compare that with surah 32, you'll see some differences in the story telling the same story and One of the interesting things about that is you will frequently hear people like Shabir Ali and others arguing that so well since Mark and Matthew Tell the story differently from one another then that must means that there's inaccuracies and the

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Bible really isn't inspired and things like that Well, they have to answer the same question except there's a little bit tougher situation because allegedly they only have one author

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You can't talk about the fact that well, you know Matthew is is book ending or telescoping or whatever else he's engaging in because they only have one author and So I'll let them explain that but be that as it may

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There was the the text and so it was it was interesting if you

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If you hear something fall over it's because these books are rather precariously lying on one another

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Sagada the the route that is that is used here in both 929 and in 713

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It's also found 7 1 19 12 32 and 27 37 which we're about to look at here.

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That's a very interesting use It is actually used about 13 times in the

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Quran. And if you look at the dictionary of the Holy Quran by Omar when he gives the meaning of this group of words remember

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Arabic is a Semitic language just like Hebrew and If you've ever looked at a Hebrew Lexicon you will see that it's organized by roots and that means you get a a

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Semantic domain a range of meanings related to the root and then the various forms then will give you the specific

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Meaning in the semantic domain that's being used. So under it's a good us a geta To be small little one who is small little subdued or abjected one or in a state of subjection

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Small smaller vileness contempt humiliation These are the words that are given the root and it's above forms has been used in the

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Holy Quran about 13 times Well, it's not about 13 times. It is exactly 13 times according to this extensive concordance of the

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Quran by Qasas Which I think weighs about as much as the other thing did there now

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What I want to do and we'll get to our calls in a little while This commentary that I have which is published by care the

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Council on American Islamic relations By Assad is very very interesting

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Because of the huge commentary that is provided on This particular text and why would there be such a huge commentary on this particular text?

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Well for obvious reasons Here's how

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Assad renders surah 9 29 and fight against those who despite having been vouchsafed revelation of four time

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That's the people of the book do not truly believe either in God of the last day and do not consider forbidden that which

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God and his Apostle have written and Do not follow the religion of truth Which God has enjoined upon them till they agree to pay the exemption tax with a willing hand after having been humbled in war

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That's how he renders this particular text Now in the commentary then you get this very

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Western like discussion. I Think it's important because you will hear many people in on talk shows and stuff like that quoting this verse you need to know the best

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Islamic interpretations and And know if they are consistent or not then this goes back to the moderate versus radicalized

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Argumentation I can guarantee you that Mr.

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Abdullah Mutallab or whatever his name was the underwear bomber Could give you a particular

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Interpretation of this one of these two, but he wouldn't have given you this interpretation which is found in Assad so footnote 40

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Literally such as those who were vouchsafed revelation before time as do not believe in accordance with the fundamental principles observe observed throughout my

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Interpretation of the Quran that all of its statements and ordinances are mutually Complementary and cannot therefore be correctly understood unless they are considered as parts of one integral whole

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I just stopped for a moment and say that's a very Western way of looking at it and not one that is

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Overly practiced by your average Muslim Unfortunately, this verse 2 must be read in the context of the clear -cut

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Quranic rule that war is permitted only in self -defense C 2 190 to 194 in the corresponding notes now notice his method of interpretation is

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Not the method of interpretation of psyche to Osama bin Laden the

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Islamic Brotherhood and Pretty much anybody in Afghanistan Pakistan and many places like that.

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I don't think he goes over there very often and does lectures, but who knows maybe he does in other words the above injunction to fight is relevant only in the event of aggression committed against the

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Muslim community or state or in the presence of an Unmistakable threat to its security a view which has been shared by that great

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Islamic thinker Muhammad Muhammad Abda Commenting in this verse he declared fighting has been made obligatory in Islam only for the sake of defending the truth and its followers all

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The campaigns the Prophet were defensive in character and so were the wars undertaken by the commanion Companions in the earliest period of Islam and quote.

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I'm just reading Assad here You need to hear how they present this when they're in the minority

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Now I guess I can't avoid however commenting that the the radicalized view

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Understands this very differently in the sense that they see the West as an imminent threat to all of Islam a

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Little different situation today as existed back then Then the next note

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This to my mind is the key phrase the above ordinance the term Apostle is obviously used here in its generic sense and applies to all the prophets on Whose writings the beliefs of Jews and Christians are supposed to be based in particular to Moses and the case the

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Christians to Jesus as Well since earlier in the sentence the people allude to are accused of so grave a sin as willfully

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Refusing to believe in God in the last day that is in life after death a man's individual responsibility for his doings on earth is

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Inconceivable they should be subsequently be blamed for comparatively minor offenses against their religious law

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Consequently the stress on they're not forbidding that which God and his Apostle have forbidden must refer to something which is as grave or almost as Grave as disbelief in God in the context of an ordinance and joining war against them

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This something can mean only one thing namely unprovoked aggression For it is this that has been forbidden by God through all the

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Apostles who are entrusted with conveying his message to man thus The above verse must be understood as I called the believers to fight against such and only such of the nominal

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Followers of earlier revelation has denied their own professed belief by committing aggression against the followers of the

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Quran So, how did he how does Assad? Explain surah 929 by interpreting this this terrible thing that they do as Being committing unprovoked aggression against the

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Muslims Then when he gets down to the having been humbled in war he puts in war in brackets

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Anyways feel themselves subjected. This is the sagat a term that we're looking at here's his discussion and Having become incorporated in the

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Islamic State the term jizya rendered by me as exemption tax Occurs in the

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Quran only once but its meaning and purpose have been fully explained in many authentic traditions Here's another one of those places by the way, or without the hadith the

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Quran is completely Beyond understanding you've got to have the hadith But who gets to filter that who gets to decide that which correct which collections are you gonna trust etc, etc?

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It's very important in the interpretation of the crop It is intimately bound up with the concept of the Islamic State as an ideological organization

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And this is a point which must always be borne in mind if the real purport of this tax has been understood in the

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Islamic State every able -bodied Muslim is obliged to take up arms and jihad That isn't a just war in God's cause whenever the freedom of his faith or the political safety of his community is imperiled

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I stopped just long enough to remind you once again Islam is not just a religion.

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It is a political system the two Cannot be separated from one another and if you can't hear that in this then you're not listening.

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It's there It's the only way to understand this we cannot interpret this in our categories.

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It is a Religious political system In other words every able -bodied

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Muslim is liable to compulsory military service Since this is primarily a religious obligation non -muslim citizens who do not subscribe the ideology of Islam Cannot in fairness be expected to assume a similar burden on the other hand

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They must be accord full protection of all their civic rights and of their religious freedom Sounds so great unless you've actually seen how

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Christians are treated in Islamic societies But it sounds good when it's being published by care and it is in order to compensate the

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Muslim community for this unequal Distribution of civic burdens that a special tax is levied on non -muslim citizens

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That is covenanted or protected people i .e. non -muslims whose safety is stetched as is statutorily assured by the

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Muslim community Thus jizya is no more and no less than an exemption tax in lieu of military service and in compensation for the covenant of protection

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Dima that's why they're called Demi's accorded to such citizens by the Islamic State The term itself is derived from the term jizya.

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He rendered something as a satisfaction as a compensation in lieu of something else No fixed rate has been set either by the

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Quran or the by the Prophet for this tax But from all available traditions It is evident that is to be considerably lower than the tax called zakah the purifying duties to which

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Muslims are liable and which because It is a specifically Islamic religious duty is Naturally not to be levied on non -muslims

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Only such the non -muslim citizens who if they were Muslims would be expected to serve in the armed forces of the state are liable to the payment of jizya

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Provided they can easily afford it accordingly all non -muslim citizens whose personal status or condition would automatically free them from the obligation to render more military service or Statutorily that is in the basis of clear -cut ordinances promulgated by the

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Prophet Exempted from the payment of jizya all women males who have not yet reached full maturity old men all sick or crippled men priests and monks all non -muslim citizens who volunteer for military service are obviously exempted from the payment of jizya so there is

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Assad's commentary and I think it is vitally important.

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I Don't know many people in the Secular media that are doing due diligence

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To take the time to find out what is it? What's the best the

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Muslims have to offer? And if they've published this stuff they've put this stuff out and said here it is

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We have I think a responsibility to listen to it and go. All right, there is the assertion

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But and we're just gonna skip it. Don't worry about today Sorry Here's the problem it sounded good and Assad is saying hey, we need to look at all the

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Quran says and we need to allow the Quran to be a consistent whole Wonderful. I don't think you can do it, but wonderful, you know

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As long as you let us do the same thing my Muslim opponents never get you know, let me do that But okay,

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I'll grant that to you, but here's the problem There is a direct parallel phrase same term same form even in the

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Quran and Assad never makes reference to it doesn't say a word about it and yet it tells us a lot and This was pointed out to me when

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I made Reference to this on the last dividing line. I posted the material after the program about the the terms good old

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Sam Shamoon got in touch with me and he reminded us of Surah 27 and that is listed in the

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Qasas Concordance, of course, so it's not like this was unknown to Assad. He would have known that it was there

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He just chose not to comment on it And I'm gonna back up and read you

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The the whole context here in in surah 27 you have the story of Solomon and the

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Queen of Sheba and it is it's well,

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I guess I the only way to make it have it make any sense since I've spent this much time I was to read it to you and I realized that for some folks since I'm not mentioning

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Dave Hunt or Calvinism at the moment click and they're they're disappearing but for the dozen of you or so that left

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Surah 27 beginning of verse I have 15 we gave in the past knowledge to David and Solomon and they both said praise be to God who has favored us above many of His servants who believe and Solomon was

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David's heir. He said oh you people we have been taught the speech of birds and On us has been bestowed a little of all things this is indeed grace manifest from God and before Solomon were marshaled his hosts of djinns and men and birds and They were all kept in order and ranks

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At length when they came to a lowly valley of ants one of the ants said oh ye ants get into your habitations

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Lest Solomon his host crush you underfoot without knowing it So he smiled amused at her speech and he said oh my lord

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So order me that I may be grateful for thy favors Which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents and that I may work the righteousness that will please thee admit me by thy grace to the ranks of thy righteous servants and he took a muster of the birds and He said why is it

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I see not the hoopoe or? Is he among the absentees? I will certainly punish him with a severe penalty or execute him unless he brings me bring me a clear reason for absence

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But the hoopoe tarried not far he came up and said this is a bird talking to Solomon I have compassed territory, which thou has not compassed for I have come to thee from Saba with tidings true

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Saba would be Sheba queen of Sheba I found there a woman Ruling over them and provided with every requisite and she has a magnificent throne

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I found her and her people worshiping the Sun besides God Satan has made their deeds seem pleasing in their eyes and has kept them away from the path

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So they receive no guidance Kept them away from the path that they should not worship God who brings to light

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What is hidden in the heavens and the earth and knows what ye hide and what you reveal? God there is no

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God, but he Lord of the throne supreme Solomon said soon shall we see whether thou has told the truth or lied so Solomon's is talking to the bird who has reported this

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Go thou with this letter of mine and deliver it to them then draw back from them and wait to see what answer they return

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The Queen said you chiefs here is delivered to me a letter worthy of respect Though it evidently was delivered by a bird.

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It is from Solomon and is as follows. Here's the letter Here's the letter that Solomon sends now

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Let me mention to you That What what

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Sam indicates is that Muhammad is molding

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Solomon into his own image here and That this is this is parallel to what

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Muhammad did and gave example of doing Here's what the letter says be not arrogant against me, but come to me in submission to the true religion now

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Remember, what is Islam submission? So be not do not be arrogant against me but become

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Muslims is what the letter says to the Queen of Sheba She said you chiefs advise me in this my affair.

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No affair. Have I decided except in your presence? They said we are endued with strength and given to vehement war, but the command is with thee

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So consider what thou wilt command She said Kings when they enter a country to spoil it and make the noblest of its people its meanest thus do they behave?

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But I am going to send him a present and wait to see with what answer return my ambassadors now when the

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Embassy came to Solomon. He said will you give me abundance and wealth? But that which

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God has given me is better than that which he has given you nay It is you who rejoice in your gift go back to them and be sure

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We shall come to them. Listen to what this is. This is what Solomon says Go back to them and be sure we shall come to them with such hosts as they will never be able to meet

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We shall expel them from there in disgrace and they will feel humbled indeed while whom saggy

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Runa Let me give you another translation Then Suleyman said to the chiefs of her messengers who brought the present go back to them

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We verily shall come to them with hosts Which they cannot resist and we shall drive them out from there in disgrace and they will be abased

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While whom saggy Runa he said Oh chiefs which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me surrendering themselves in obedience so what happens here

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Solomon says I'm going to come and I'm going to destroy you unless you become

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Muslims. Now. These were not people that were attacking the Muslims This was not an invading army.

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He didn't even know about these people the hoopoe bird had to tell him about these people and yet Solomon Does what

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Muhammad does Muhammad would Take the very same course of action

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He would send the letter inviting the idolaters to Islam Threaten them if they refuse and then he prepares to attack them if they do not become

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Muslims and that then becomes the foundation of Of exactly what you see in the

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Muslim Brotherhood and the radicalized form of Islam and the question is If the

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Assad Moderate interpretation of the Quran is correct. Why not make reference to this direct parallel?

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It's the exact same phrase It's the exact same phrase and yet here they feel themselves subdued.

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They are abased Because the Muslims attack them in their own homeland and there's the problem the problem exists in the texts themselves and in the resultant actions of Muhammad that becomes the foundation of the quote -unquote radicalized interpretation which really is nothing more than the

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Quranic interpretation the historic interpretation now again, I Wish my moderate friends all the luck in arguing their case but if Assad is a good example, and I If you were listening carefully,

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I know that You know sometimes people tune out But if you're listening carefully It really seemed to me that his comments were specifically meant to communicate the idea that oh, you know

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This jizya isn't any big thing It's only on people that wouldn't be in military service and it's actually less than what the Muslims were supposed to pay and So aren't we wonderful and and we've seen how jizya has been used historically

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But that's it sounded and like an apologetic application is What we were getting an apologetic application well, if you're gonna give an apologetic application shouldn't you deal with a exact use of the exact same phrase in A very similar context elsewhere in the

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Quran make reference to it explain it. I But but but he didn't so there's the there's a phraseology there's terminology

43:36

There's an examination of the text of the Quran I again

43:42

Understand, you know people say well, you know, that's great. But could you have like maybe a different webcast?

43:48

No, not really I Really hope that someday people gonna look back and go

43:55

I'm so thankful that you just kept bringing this to our attention because we're having to deal with it now

44:00

At least we're not stuck, you know at first base We've at least got something to go on because you're doing that So anyways, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number

44:13

I'm looking at My my tweets here Yes, a voice of the sheep

44:24

Asked have you seen the subsequent interview of human O 'Reilly show? Yep, because I just played that And Don't see anything in the other one.

44:33

So see I'm looking at both of them now So hopefully I should be seeing any questions there that are being asked at dr.

44:38

Oakley 1689 eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number and Johnny from California is going to try to trip me up yet again

44:47

By completely shifting the topic probably going to ask me something about what the eschatological viewpoints of a particular

44:55

Pope was around 1453 on July 3rd at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon, right

45:01

Johnny It is it is a new year is it not

45:17

I have been actually doing some research on the subject of death in the afterlife and I actually picked up a few books one by Philip S Johnson called shades of Sheol and the death of death by a man named

45:32

Neil Gilliam and basically what we're kind of interested in in in your opinion of What would be the best academic book?

45:40

That would present the the Old Testament Doctrine of the I mean obviously the

45:46

New Testament has a much more developed Understanding of the afterlife than the Old Testament does but given the books that I'm reading even like N .T.

45:54

Wright's book on the resurrection He N .T. Wright dates For example the book of Daniel in the second century

46:00

BC and when you look at the the liberal sources that are out there they see a

46:07

Gradual development from First Temple Judaism to Second Temple Judaism in the in the Hellenization and stuff like that and so when we look at a passage in Genesis where it'll say that a saint passed away and that He went to be with his fathers.

46:22

We would see that as a reference to the afterlife Well, yeah Yeah Sort of it could be in that sense though.

46:32

We are reading that from our perspective The exact nature of Sheol is not

46:41

Brought out a whole lot until the prophetic period which as you pointed out liberals like to to place those writings you know way way way down the road, but I your primary problem here is that the vast majority of stuff that is published in Old Testament studies today is

47:00

I mean Conservatives gave up the Old Testament to liberals a long long time ago, and there are only a few people the

47:07

Bruce Waltke's and Gleason Archer's The dr.

47:15

Merrill Dallas the the conservatives in the Old Testament area, but they are few and far between in comparison to the to the liberals in that area and so I would think

47:27

That probably your best resource for looking for I don't know if there are quote -unquote books on the subject

47:34

But you're probably going to find articles In obscure theological journals on subjects like that.

47:42

I don't know if you have the logos theological journals library

47:47

CD DVDs or whatever it is the forum they have now but That's obviously a really good place to to search because you're having to look through theological journals back someone

48:00

That was on the ministry resource list and then it disappeared, but I haven't seen it yet So I'm a little concerned about that, but anyway make a long story short.

48:08

I would I would suggest Contacting dr. Waltke because I do know that he responds to folks and he's he's quite active he and I spoke at a conference some of years ago up in Toronto and A really sharp guy, and if anyone would have maybe a bibliography from a class that he's taught

48:25

They would have those types of articles already there It would probably be

48:31

Bruce Waltke Bruce Waltke yes

48:41

It's written by a Jewish man the death of death by Neil Gilman no No, because the thing about this and my friend

48:48

He actually studies the more of he's more up -to -date on on rabbinic Judaism of this era

48:54

And he's got a lot of you know the Talmud and stuff like that from Second Temple Judaism And he's saying that because for a long time at least in the in the 19th and 20th centuries

49:05

Jews Have pretty much been pretty quiet about the subject of the afterlife

49:11

But this book right here They're saying is sending a bit of a tidal wave saying that they want to I think

49:19

Reclaim their roots and that there is more discussion about subjects like the afterlife and resurrection now

49:25

Coming up in Judaism, which I think would be very helpful in our in our in our studies of the afterlife as a whole well,

49:33

I think it would be Actually I now that now that you mentioned that Sometime and we need to set the date, but I think sometime about about a month from now.

49:47

I'm supposed to be on Michael Brown's program to debate Calvinism with him, but he knows

49:54

Judaism really well being a former Jew himself, and that's his area of study.

49:59

He also might be someone who would have some Materials on afterlife stuff like that, and he's fairly easy to get in contact with as well

50:07

He has a radio program that he does and stuff like that. So that might be another direction go, but there's a difference between knowing where The Jews are today as as a people and Old Testament studies, there's a huge difference between two.

50:23

I mean most most Jews today I mean if you've listened to Michael Brown's debate with the shmuley botiak on the unbelievable radio program that I talked about a few weeks ago

50:32

Most Jews today have an extremely low view of Scripture as far as its Consistency and inspiration and things like that.

50:40

It's much more of a cultural artifact than it is a divine revelation. And so that that has to be kept in mind too when thinking of the difference between where Jews are now and where they were

50:52

You know in the in the Second Temple Judaism or during the period of development between the first and second temple

50:58

Well, actually this is interesting that you say that because I Agree with you wholeheartedly there, but but one of the things that my friend was telling me was that There there were certain prayers that were being done.

51:11

I guess on the liturgical level Yeah By Jews and that these these these prayers would have actual references to you know things like the afterlife that were actually removed from the prayers by modern

51:25

Jews and But and but the attention that is being paid to towards ancient Judaism and the idea of reclaiming their roots

51:32

I think is I think is a step in the right direction I should be should be helpful in that particular area because you know, we it's

51:41

The way it's being portrayed by the liberal left Is that the concept of Hellenization?

51:49

Infiltrated Judaism which in then turned around and infiltrated Christianity, right? and now the

51:54

Jews are going back to the original form or something like that and and but and he also told me that there's a difference between Like when we use the word reformed in in our circles, we see that as the most conservative wing of Christianity On theological level but with reformed

52:09

Jews, that's actually the most Like leftist Christianity for them. It's the Orthodox Jews.

52:15

So it's very interesting. Yeah Terminology is different definitely. But yeah, it's it's a difficult area.

52:20

I I am sure that there are Some works in the subject, but they're probably Buried in those those theological journals and so Bruce Waltke or Michael Brown probably would be able to put you on to Finding what you're looking for there.

52:36

Okay. Thank you very much. Okay Yeah, I Need to get back with dr.

52:42

Brown. In fact today if I can He had emailed me I think we were looking at something around the 26 or so, but I'm also trying to do the same type of thing with Tim Staples on purgatory as far as being on the program

52:56

I'm gonna be on Michaels program then we're gonna have Mike on this program But we also need to do the program with Tim Staples, which we want to go for 90 minutes on that and Also, probably

53:09

I'm I know that a week from this Thursday. I won't be able to do the program because I'll be teaching at Golden Gate Mill Valley So I leave next week to go up there and in fact,

53:20

I just realized I leave week from today, so Not sure what we're gonna do about that.

53:30

I Think my flight is right around now actually, so I may be I don't know We'll check

53:36

I'll check see what my flight time is on on Tuesday to get up there I may have to go to the airport two days early, you know to get through all the screening stuff like that But anyhow, we may have some interruptions next week and then the week after that.

53:51

Dr. Joseph Piper is gonna be on the program We're gonna be talking about the conference that I'll be speaking at back at Greenville Presbyterian Seminary where the widely accepted

54:04

Attire includes bow ties and so I will I will fit in very very well rich just grimaced in pain but Body Balcom Recently was

54:16

I saw him speaking in a bow tie. So we're starting to take over We're starting to infiltrate and it's we're getting a little farther into Yes, the cult begins

54:28

It's not a cult. It is it is first the Mac. It is the no first John Denver That's then then the

54:35

Mac and now the bow ties the bleeding edge of reformed fashion is is what it is and Anyway, so we've got a lot to do as far as guests and programs and obviously

54:53

I Would like to have at least some time to do some preparation especially for the

54:58

Tim Staples program, so it's gonna be So what we have a little time to kill here.

55:04

What would we do next Tuesday if we can't Get you all we try to Monday show

55:11

Maybe or maybe try to do a super early one on Tuesday. I don't know

55:19

Very very wants to sit in and very well take my role. Yeah. Yeah. He's learned how to run the board and now

55:26

Your side too. Okay It could be very interesting and also could be one of the last dividing lines ever done

55:32

Oh, yeah, these that would be the second to last the last of you my apologizing For the previous dividing line as we as we went off the air actually, you know somebody a channel just pointed out

55:44

I did forget it was John Denver. It was the Mac. It was the kilt that came before the

55:50

Mac And so is John Denver the kilt the Mac now the bowtie cult, you know, you're really jealous

55:58

It's you really shouldn't express these things on the program. So anyway and then in February first weekend of February be in in Georgia Conyers, Georgia and then

56:08

We really need to I keep mentioning this We really need to get a graphic up on the website about raising money to go to the

56:15

United Kingdom Very good point. Yeah, I gotta get to the United Kingdom. That'd be a good thing to do.

56:21

So We'll we'll try to get those things on the blog as soon as we can, but especially the graphic That's the only way people see that is to try to do that.

56:30

So that's that's February. I Can't see it from here.

56:36

Why are they show there's February? It's the weekend of the 20th and 21st be just probably a few days before that and then most the week afterwards

56:43

But I haven't heard back from a number of the people in in in England yet as to getting things set up and arranged

56:49

So I'm a little concerned about that, but we'll keep pressing It's been the holidays and stuff like that and a lot of folks just just now starting to try to dig out from all the all

56:57

The emails and everything else, but so we've got a lot of stuff going on Mike my calendar is is scary full

57:05

All the way into into the summer already With trips all over the place including one to Leavenworth, Colorado Hopefully they'll let me back out because that's the only thing

57:16

I know about Leavenworth is you go there and you stay there for many years and You don't have to worry about bow ties or anything when you're in the camp

57:24

Leavenworth But there are actually people who live there that are not incarcerated in in the prison there

57:29

So we'll be up in in Colorado. I believe that's in May Yes, that's in May and then heading for North Carolina the same week

57:37

In fact, I'm gonna have to go from Colorado to North Carolina And a hoped for haven't gotten word on it yet, but I hope for major debate in early

57:47

May Actually, I'm sorry. It's not North Carolina. It's Florida me. It's Florida But it would still be a major debate in the

57:56

Florida area in May But I can't give that information yet because these things take time to put together

58:01

So once we know details, we will provide them to you. Thanks for listening to the dividing line today rather eclectic from Brigham to Islam to death and the afterlife in Judaism, but we like mixing it all up Hopefully not leaving you mixed up in the process

58:20

Thanks for listening to the dividing line. We'll see you Thursday. God bless The dividing line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega ministries

59:34

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