FBC Naples Roundtable

FBC Naples and the Documentary’s Reception

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I am John Harris and we have a special episode today a panel discussion on the recent mini documentary on First Baptist Naples there was a situation that happened there a little over a year ago now.

That's kind of continued and Enemies within the church did a great job. The link is in the info section if you want to check that out. But this is more for people who have watched that already. So you may want to watch that video first and then come back to this interview because we're gonna talk about what's taken place since that interview or that that documentary dropped and.

Get some additional reactions some additional details from some of those who are closest to this situation. So I just want to welcome first of all, we have Ronnie now with us. Thank you, Ronnie for joining us and Judd Saul as well who directed this mini documentary and we're supposed to have Another person from the church who formerly was at First Baptist Naples who's going to come on and.

And if Mike is able to make it we will introduce him as well. But I want to start Judd with you and and as I ask you the question if you guys first kind of Tell me a little just a little bit about the project who you are what you do.

But the question that I want you to answer is what's been the reaction to this mini documentary about First Baptist Church of Naples?

We have had Overwhelming positive response since we released the documentary. It has it has gone a lot further than I thought it would and The most interesting thing is is we're getting responses from churches all over the country and we're getting responses from people within churches and.

And they're saying well our church is going the same way going woke and People are putting up a fight to stop this in their churches. And so this documentary has inspired a lot of people and we actually got word from a couple of pastors that were within the SPC.

That just said after watching your documentary. We're done. We're out.

Wow, okay. So this is inspiring some people to fight some people to leave the convention. It sounds like any negative reaction that you're aware of. Any any SPC individuals or people within First Baptist Naples?

I'm sure Ronnie's gonna have something to say about this. But to you Judd have they said anything? I Have not heard anything.

From within the SPC or within people from the other side at First Baptist Naples. First like I said, I probably 50 to 1. For every 50 positive comments we get one negative but nothing directly from with inside First Baptist Naples, okay.

Yeah, interesting.

The Church Drift and the Power Struggle

Ronnie why don't you tell us a little bit about. I know you're a member at the church that was in this documentary. Tell us a little bit about That any reaction that you've seen. Just just give us kind of the the lay of the land there if you would.

Well, all the reactions I received has been very positive and I'm surprised that I've been contacted by believers and some pastors from all over the country. That's been a surprise for me. This is so overwhelming for people.

They are outmatched. The last time I I saw this kind of disparity was when I was president of a school board of a public school system. And to try and bring change with with the public school system machine opposing Reform and change that's the last time I saw this kind of disparity in power.

The Wokies have learned they've learned from First Baptist. And if you look at some of the other Takeovers that they've been successful. They move much quicker than they did in Naples. It's surprising by the time the remnant remnant of believers organized it's practically over.

Well, it's almost like spiritual blitzkrieg it seems like it's it's a shock and You know it almost like the election like Biden's the president-elect and you can't ask any questions about the process.

It's just this is who it is. And You know Ronnie I was wondering because you know, I know you're still a member there has there been an attempt to me.

I resigned my membership last night at 9 p .m. Okay.

So you're not a member anymore. It was there something that accompanied that and or a reason? Yeah.

The the pastors and the leadership they've had 10 months To enact the changes and reforms that myself and two other believers recommended. They Adopted three of the four. But they've misused those recommendations.

So what they've done instead if you study the changes that they have already made or that they are bringing before a vote the changes they are making is the concentrate power in themselves and as biblical Christians with.

We believe in diffused power and divided authority. Because we understand that our nature is fallen and that in this age John we never received complete sanctification. My nature will always be fallen or sinful always.

That's that's the beauty of salvation and grace. So what they're doing is they're concentrating power and I can go into specifics if you want me to but they are Neutering the rights of the minority and they're moving towards major majoritarianism.

Now Ronnie you are a respected businessman in the community. You how long have you been a member at FBC Naples?

I I was one of the newest members. Okay, I I had Lived what. We have a lot of snowbirds here, right? And so I was splitting my time between North Carolina Where I belong to colonial Baptist and in here, so I transferred my membership over a year ago.

Okay, so you kind of enter right as this was going on and I did. I entered.

Yeah, I I but I attended there since 2004. Okay, but I didn't transfer a membership and I always kind of stayed out of internecine fights. It's just been my nature. But when John David Eddy When he wrote the letter the public letter Accusing my brothers of being racist and a sickness and a cancer And then terminated 17 of them without a Matthew 18 Process I felt led by the Holy Spirit to fill staying in the gap from my brothers.

Well, Ronnie, you are you're well respected. Still among many true brothers and sisters in Christ. You know what you've done and sacrificed and the attempts you've made and you're long suffering and patience in this and I'm just so sorry That this has been your experience, but we're grateful that you're brave enough to come out.

I want to turn we have now Mike Dolan just entered the chat. Hi Mike. Wow. Doing that is the most Christmas background. So, you know we're talking about this. You were featured in the first Baptist Naples documentary and I know.

You were a member there. You're you know, a police officer and an evangelist as well as I understand and and so your heart is very much for the Lord for foster children and these kinds of things and. And this has been a hard situation for you and your wife and I wanted to ask.

First of all before the episode last year that took place with Marcus Hayes and all of that. Were you aware at all of a leftward drift at FBC Naples? Did you see anything that gave you a red flag? Hey, what's going on or did it just kind of hit you at once?

No, it didn't hit us at once. In fact.

Not just myself but several of the church members of saw this drift coming. And Martin Nia Muller a German theologian during the times of World War two he famously said because they first came for the Socialists and I wasn't a socialist I didn't say anything and he goes on to say because I Wasn't a trade unionist and they went up to trade unions that I didn't say anything and finally they came after me and there was No one left.

That's Now don't get me to understand me. I'm not saying that I'm not comparing what they're doing to Nazi Germany at all. But what I am saying is that one by one they systematic systematically picked off key leaders and key supporters for The pastor and for the church.

Until there was nobody left with the pastor as an example about a year beforehand We saw the executive pastor take the the chief accountant. And tell him change your accounting methods and Change the way you report this and he was a good man a solid accountant.

And he refused to do it and he led him to the door with security and fired him on the spot running his own account they They took the security team the pastor's personally sort of had a personal bodyguard.

And they personally fired him and then they dismantled the entire security team pastor has no more security. They have it took the pastor's best friend and a deacon a longtime deacon who was in charge of church membership.

How do we bring how do we bring these new members into the church and get them engaged and He personally dismantled his program said it's no longer necessary. You know and each time these people go to the pastor and say did you know did you know?

In the pastor would would be I wasn't in those meetings but he would he would try his best to support his his new picks for the executive pastor and next thing, you know, the pastor is approached by a personal friend who again had Was picked off by John David Eady.

John David Eady said we're going to wind down Operation Christmas Child. Mm-hmm, and he talked about winding down doing church weddings. And I know not on my watch. We're not going to do that on my watch and she wanted a pastor and the pastor said at this point I agree with you support me so over time over a period of time everybody saw this coming and He no longer had the support.

So this is didn't happen overnight. This happened over time and people saw it and We just couldn't stop it.

How the Leadership Consolidated Control

So what it sounds like is that within the leadership who was already there they were consolidating over a period of years and months and then. And when it came time to try to get Marcus Hayes in there, it was it was the Blitzkrieg.

It was like shove this person in as soon as possible. But leading up to that there were signs. There were things that others who hear this story can take note of if it's happening, you know in their church.

I want to ask you to Mike there were many who did not want to come on camera. I was down there I remember talking to some of those who had stories who were crying who just they couldn't go on camera. I know there were people and many don't realize this.

There were calls being made even the day that Judd was filming. Hey, don't talk to those guys, you know a lot of interference being run. So you were brave and many were brave to Come on camera anyway.

But I want to ask because I think it all comes down to this being called a racist is such a damaging thing. When it's not true, especially. How has this experience? Impacted your lives and the lives of others who are called that it from first Baptist Naples.

Oh.

Can you imagine in the days of a colonial day. The woman who commits adultery she has to wear the scarlet letter. Right everywhere she goes she wears that scarlet letter and people will thrust their finger and call you an adulterer.

It's kind of the same way now people didn't want to come on camera because they didn't want to say you're a racist. Or you're associated with a racist, you know, when you label someone with that big R word.

People just they jumped to that preconceived notion that there must be something true about that. But I can assure you this had on our end. This had nothing to do with race. It has impacted us. I Find ironic that tomorrow the entire sheriff's office.

We're being called to go to First Baptist Church of Naples to take implicit bias training. Of all places, they're gonna send us to the church. You're kidding. To two million people in Southwest Florida saying we have a racist problem in our church and we're gonna deal with it.

And now they're gonna post implicit bias training. So it does impact us. It has impacted my family personally. I've we are constantly called to defend ourselves. Because there's an assumption that there must be something even something small true there as an example if you don't mind.

Yes, I have a a longtime friend that I set in a Bible in life group every Wednesday with men's group and I Liked him. No, I loved him. Wonderful Vietnam vet and a deacon in the church and when all this racist name was being thrown about he came to me as my uh, my Brand new daughter.

She's 10 years old. We just adopted her. She's a. She's Half black half white right as she's running up and down the hallway. And he says come on Mike you're a police officer. Tell me the truth. You guys Wait, if there are two cars being you see side-by-side once full of white men once full of black men.

Who are you gonna pull over? I looked at him. I said that I said, I'm gonna pull over the guy that breaks the law. Right, he didn't fathom that but that's where that when you label someone with that our word the racist word.

They automatically assume must be something there and we are caused to have to defend that and even after you defend that. They still walk away thinking hmm, maybe there's a little bit something I missed.

I.

Want to ask and this is really for anyone. You know and I want to say to Mike I'm so sorry for that because you mentioned that story as well in the Documentary and I can tell that that if that's a hard thing to go through for anyone to be falsely accused.

What what I want to ask is has there been any movement to try to. I mean I mean legitimate movement authentic sincere wanting to apologize From the leadership for the way that you all were treated. Have you heard anything any Ronnie or Mike?

I'll jump in there if you don't mind. I up September 13th 2019 I reached out to the chairman of the deacon and said. And I don't know if you I won't share his name, but I said we had a very difficult conversation.

There's sin in the camp. I need to meet with you and we need to reconcile. Never heard a word. October 26 2019. I said listen, I've been reaching out to you. You're not returning my calls my text my email.

We need to fix this because there's sin in the camp and we need to move on. As early as perhaps Two months ago. I sent a note to The new executive pastor Kevin Taylor saying listen Kevin, I understand you're trying to reconcile.

I have it in my mission work. I've come across someone who is an expert at this. Let's come together. Let's fix this. And He sent a note back saying I love you because the Bible says I must love you. Well, thanks Kevin, but you know forced love isn't really love at all, right?

That came across as disingenuous but to answer your question has anybody I mean anybody reached out to This family to reconcile. No, they have not.

No, and that and that's unfortunate even since the documentary was dropped Judd or Ronnie because either of you I think would know something about this. I know there were some other stories that were Not included in the documentary.

Thing like for instance. Orders, no trespassing orders sent to certain individuals. Trying to hurt certain individuals businesses because of the stand they took. And my assumption is some of these things were not included just because those people weren't willing to come on camera.

Are there other things that maybe should be mentioned about this story that that just when you hear them you think? Oh my goodness like that's. The story is bad enough as it is, but it makes it even worse and in a sense or more concerning.

Fear, Legal Pressure, and the Missing Membership List

Okay, Ronnie were there things that were left on the cutting room floor that people ought to know about.

Yeah, sure. I mean there was a lot of fear-mongering. There was a lot of Finger pointing. People were afraid. People were afraid for their business. People were afraid to come on camera. People were afraid for their children.

Because their children attend the First Baptist Academy. The fake I think they were Mike can answer this question, I think they were fake restraining orders. I don't think they went. I don't think they went through a judge.

Did they Mike?

No, they didn't go through a judge, but they did tell people Don't come here to worship if you have children on campus stay in your lane attend their event, but do not associate or commingle or We're coming to the worship side.

And they sent out specific they hired Florida's most expensive and reputable law firm to send out notices to Members that were disciplined and And the attorney the group of attorneys basically said we want you know we are investigating this and you must cease and desist or else we will take the next step forward and Do the legal process by the lawsuit? restraining orders Etc.

So, yeah.

To my knowledge to this day. They will not release The membership lists to members which is in violation of Their tax exempt state of status under Florida law. So we cannot communicate with each other.

We're not allowed to have that list. Okay, we so there was a lot that happened John after December 1st three three including myself three of us were Requested to the emissaries and speak to the the pastors and we had many closed door meetings with the pastors.

We were very very close to having a Meeting with the pastoral staff and pastor wicker we I would say with I would say within 48 hours during that time The pastoral staff decided to release the pastor wicker and accounting audit that they had done Going years back and sent him a bill Based on their audit Which blew up the entire?

Restoration the spirit of restoration and a face-to-face meeting with the wickers I would say that was the most significant issue that came after December which is when you all did your right so.

Go ahead Mike during those meetings up as you were trying to Establish some sort of a reconciliation process. Specifically our names were brought up the Dolan's. Yeah. Yes, and the pastors were famously saying at first well, we didn't discipline the Dolan's they quit and.

Well, that's true we did quit we reside I respect we resigned our membership. I did it by email. And they received it. We know for a fact they received it and then they changed there when you challenge them on that.

Because we have a letter from Kevin Taylor saying you've been disciplined and I'm no shepherd of your souls go find somebody new something to that effect. Then they changed their their strategy from well We are letters crossed in the mail.

We sent them a letter as we were sending as they were sending us a letter. Therefore it was a Unhonest error. Well, that's that's a lie. They if they said that they lied once again. Because during the the discipline meeting we had two attorneys stand up in the meeting and say John David Edie.

You need to know that the Dolan's have already resigned. I've got it right here. And if you move forward with disciplining non-members. You have put this church and every every person here taking this vote in a terrible libelous position.

Basically said I'll handle that you just vote. So even as as Ronnie and the team are trying to reconcile they're hanging on to that lie. That is correct. Can't give it up.

Social Justice, Woke Drift, and How Churches Should Respond

Judd, I want to ask you something because I know you know, the purpose of us doing this isn't isn't just to beat up on The way that this process was handled. But it's to expose and it's to sound the alarm for other churches that you don't want this happening and so often it seems like in this case is a classic example.

Corruption is Associated with the social justice stuff because we haven't even talked about the social justice stuff. Even though that was kind of the the thing that you know caused all these members to be called racist and so forth.

How often do you see that Judd. I mean is that just me who's noticing that does the corruption and the social justice stuff go Together and if so, what advice do you have for other churches? When they start seeing some of the things that happen at First Baptist Naples, what should they do?

Well first and foremost. Yeah, social justice and corruption go hand in hand because social justice is not of the Bible. It's not of the scriptures and it's a it's a socialist mindset mentality. In order for them to achieve this objective They have to manipulate lie and change the rules from within to take over a church.

Now the first thing churches need to do is first don't hire a woke pastor. These these guys will sign every statement of faith and and and agree with your you know with with your church. You know say he agrees with your church bylaws and church vision as soon as he gets in.

He's gonna start the process to undo Everything this church was trying to do so. What what people what what people need to do if you already hired a Wokie? That's what we're calling them. Thanks, Ronnie.

We call them Wokie. If you if you hire a Wokie the first thing you need to do is you need to get into your Bylaws and memorize them and start enacting Change and committees now and and if you don't and if you want to avoid mission drift You should probably look at your bylaws and change them and make them foolproof Before these situations arise, but if you already start to see this happen in your church.

You got to get right into your bylaws and start the process now to undo what these Wokies are going to do to your church.

Which is the and I John I would add that If you have an elder board do not let the elder board be dissolved if you have. If you don't have an elder board You need to change the Constitution and add an elder board.

That's the firewall. That's the firewall between the remnant of believers and.

The Wokie take over of your church and that's the point at which we began to lose control of our church as soon as elders Went to being a committee-led church. They they dispose of the old committee members brought in the brand new committee members supported by John Eadie.

In the pastor lost control complete control. So John, I you know, I hope this isn't boring and you're not losing viewers, you know, for example. Here's one of the Wokies. Here's what the Wokies will do.

If your Constitution says that the lay people may Recommend nominees for committees. They will not. They will not allow you to not nominate people for the committees it has to say shall. Lay people shall nominate.

So any wiggle room in your Constitution They will take advantage of them.

Bylaws, Elders, and Guardrails Against Mission Drift

Winding down here and those are great things. Great advice guys. I appreciate that winding down Judd since we only have a little over a minute. Where can people go. If they have a story they want to contact you they need to know about you need advice.

Enemies within the church, you know come to our church or our organization. Well, what should they do?

Well, they can they come to our website they can send us information. We can't cover every story. I mean people have to realize this isn't this isn't just your little church problem. This is happening all over America.

Yeah, and we're just a small team That is trying to raise the alarm about what's happening on more of a bigger scale but. But your stories need to get out there. We have a social media group enemies within the church launch team on Facebook.

Come out there network with us. If you want to support continue to support the work we're doing by raising the alarm on these issues. Please visit.

Www .enemieswithinthechurch .com. Support us. Well, thank you Judd and Ronnie and Mike as well for your bravery your advice and it is it is well appreciated. And this is helping a lot of people. I've even gotten some of those emails as well.

It's inspiring folks. So god bless you guys. Have a Merry Christmas.