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December 31, 2020
PETER ROBINSON, Presiding Bishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America, who will address
“LESSONS to be LEARNED From 18th CENTURY ANGLICANISM TODAY”
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this last day of 2020, praise be to God, on December 31st, 2020.
And I am thrilled to wrap up the new year with an excellent guest that is a returning guest to this program, someone whom I always find utterly fascinating and edifying, and always proves to be a superb and very knowledgeable guest.
His name is Peter Robinson, and he's the Presiding Bishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America. And today we are going to be addressing lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bishop Peter Robinson.
Hello, Chris.
And if you could, let our listeners know about the United Episcopal Church of North America.
For the United Episcopal...
Great. Well, that's always good to hear. And having been one who was rescued spiritually and theologically out of Roman Catholicism by the grace and mercy of our sovereign Lord, I'm very happy to know that you are not leaning towards the Oxford Movement and are truly a reflection of Protestant Anglicanism.
And if anybody wants to find out more about the United Episcopal Church of North America, you could go to their website, which is...
United Episcopal...
Actually, I have unitedepiscopal .org.
Okay, both work.
Oh, okay, good. And since I'm looking at one that works, I will repeat that one, unitedepiscopal .org. And you can find if there are congregations in your area in that denomination as well, in addition to finding out other things about this fine denomination, which is neither Anglo-Catholic nor is it leftist and apostate, which unfortunately is probably the most typical thing that people think of when they hear about an Episcopal Church, which is tragic.
Well, you wanted to address today lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today. Now, what is unique about the 18th century with an Anglicanism that made you want to focus on that particular century in our discussion today?
Now, you mentioned Arianism. That is probably a more well-known heresy to our listeners, probably because the Jehovah's Witnesses, well, depending upon where you live, but there are areas, especially where I was from, I was born and raised on Long Island, New York, and we were swarming with Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus Christ, which would be a key tenet of Arianism.
So what would be the key tenets of this heresy of which you speak?
I remember back of the century, and then the breaks go with Evangelicalism.
So a lot of this bolstering or reaffirming orthodoxy seems to have been produced out of the challenges of heretics.
Yeah.
If you could repeat that one figure who seemed to be a primary champion for orthodoxy.
Daniel Walterland.
The 39 Articles man and the Reformed Anglican, I'm assuming.
He wasn't Reformed. He was an old high churchman. He was one of those who was a little...
Sort of like a Lutheran class election.
One of the things that's a little...
And that, from what I understand from confessional Protestant Anglicans, is the true via media, not a midway attempt for bringing peace between Rome and Protestantism, but between the two branches of Protestantism.
Yeah, I mean, it comes out of the...
Our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us, as always, your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.
And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are in disagreement with your own minister. Over some theological issue that you are raising in your question, and you'd rather not draw attention to your identity, or perhaps you're a pastor yourself, and you disagree with your own fellow elders, your own denomination, what have you, and you'd rather not draw attention to your identity.
Obviously, those are the kinds of reasons why you could remain anonymous. But if it's just a general question, we ask of you to please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.
And we do have a listener, and this listener is choosing to remain anonymous. He says, I have many friends within Anglicanism and Episcopalianism on both sides of the Tiber River, as it were. Some are truly confessionally Protestant, and others are more of the Romish Oxford movement Tractarian side of the issue.
My question would be, even though I am leaning towards the Protestant side of this dispute, I was wondering, why is it that the Romish Oxford movement began to rear its ugly head in the 19th century? Where were they all along in the 18th century?
And I'm trying to recall from our conversations in our previous interviews, whether you yourself were a high churchman or a low churchman. It seems that the majority of men that I have had on this program that are thoroughly Reformed Anglicans and very Protestant are surprisingly high churchmen.
Although I do have some friends who are self-described low church rectors and so on. Where would you be in that realm?
And it's interesting also that you said that the Book of Common Prayer.
Appears to be more Lutheran leaning in its emphasis, and the Thurgo and Calvinists I know in Anglicanism are all strong prayer book men. So it's interesting.
Yeah, it rather resembles that.
Well, we have to go to our first break right now. And again, if anybody else would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Bishop Peter Robinson after these messages from our sponsors. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.
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Sassu, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sassu wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Bhanu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.
I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well. He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what God has designed. And he has erupted into praise.
In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him. When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.
Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.
Thank you.
I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net, that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.
Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest for the full two hours today, with a little less than 90 minutes to go, is Bishop Peter Robinson, Presiding Bishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America.
We are addressing lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today, and our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. If you have a question, chrisarnzen at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence.
We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says, why does the 18th century have such a bad rap against it, when it produced at least two of the greatest minds of Christendom, which would, in my opinion, be George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards, and let me even add a third, even though I am far from being Arminian, John Wesley.
I think a lot of it...
We do have another listener. We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania, who wants to know, when you say there was a resurgence of modalism in the 18th century, were these conscious believers in that heresy, or were they just sloppy at defining the Trinity as something prevalent even today?
Let's see here. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, you described England and the Church of England, specifically in the 18th century, as becoming more conservative. Was this a genuine, vibrant, born-again form of conservatism, or more prone towards dead orthodoxy?
We have to get to our midway break right now,.
And please be patient with us, folks, because, as always, the midway break is the longer-than-normal break that we have in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they are required of the FCC to localize this program to Lake City, Florida, and therefore they have to air their own public service announcements and other local things in order to localize the show to Lake City, Florida, geographically.
So, please be patient with us, as I said, as this is a longer break. While they air their localized information, we air our globally heard commercials, so please use this time wisely by writing down as much of the information as possible for as many of our advertisers as possible, so that you can more frequently patronize them, and successfully patronize them as well, because, remember, folks, we want our advertisers to keep renewing their contracts, because we absolutely, positively depend on the finances that come in through our advertisers to exist.
We cannot exist without our advertisers. So, please, even if it means just responding to them by thanking them for sponsoring this program, when you can't actually purchase something from them, or use their services, or visit their churches, or what have you, at least write to them, or call them, or email them, and thank them for sponsoring this program.
I'll also use this time, obviously, to send in a question to Bishop Peter Robinson, and we are discussing lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and, of course, since Bishop Robinson is very knowledgeable on the whole subject of Anglicanism, and theology, and doctrine, and church history, you know, you could broaden the spectrum of your questions to be more than just the 18th century, but we would obviously prefer it if you can focus on that era.
My email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more Peter Robinson. Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society.
The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years. The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.
Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non-believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.
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Visit historicalbiblesociety .org today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.
He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one-time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.
When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.
I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.
I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the holy scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.
I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co-elder, Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711. That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.
It's good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.
Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that?
You don't have to owe me anything. We're in good shape.
I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself. Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern time at ironsharpensironradio .com.
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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.
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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well. He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what God has designed. And he has erupted into praise.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.
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You need to read.
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And don't forget folks, solid-ground-books .com is an absolutely essential financial supporter of this program. Without them, we would likely not continue to exist, barring a miracle from God. So please, I'm urging you to go to solid-ground-books .com frequently and purchase generously.
And there are plenty of special events coming up that would give you opportunities to purchase gifts, perhaps even Valentine's Day gifts for those that you love who love to read. Also, Easter will be here before you know it in 2021.
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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Orenson on Iron Truck and Zion Radio. Before we return to Bishop Peter Robinson on our discussion today, lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today, I just have another appeal to you folks.
Please, if you really do care about this program, you care about it continuing to exist, you don't want to disappear from the airwaves. You've grown to depend upon the wide spectrum of guests and topics that we regularly feature on this program, sometimes that are never heard anywhere else.
Well, please, if that is the case, you love the show, please go to irontruckandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now, and do that frequently and donate generously. If you prefer snail mail, there will be an address that appears on the screen when you click support at irontruckandzionradio .com, where you can mail a check made payable to Iron Truck and Zion Radio.
Also, if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love for you to send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
You don't have to believe exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting at least something that is at the very least compatible with what we believe. Also, folks, remember, please do not siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to, to your own local church, in order to give to Iron Truck and Zion Radio.
In other words, don't punish your church financially by blessing us financially. Also, if you are really struggling to survive, remember, providing for your family also goes above and beyond promoting, or should I say, supporting Iron Truck and Zion Radio.
Those two things are commands of God, providing for your church and family. Providing for Iron Truck and Zion Radio is obviously not a command of Scripture, but if you love the show and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please go to irontruckandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
We have been hit really hard financially due to the coronavirus pandemic hysteria, because many of our listeners have either had their businesses horribly affected financially because of the hysteria, or they have even lost them.
So that has affected not only our givers, but our advertisers. In fact, I just got off the phone with an advertiser who is renewing a contract, but cannot pay us until later on in the month of January, because they have been hit so hard financially.
So please help us. If you love the show and you don't want us to disappear, please, I'm urging you, go to irontruckandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible-believing church, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, I may be able to help you find a church.
I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet, and I have helped people in all parts of the world and our audience find churches near where they live, sometimes within minutes from where they live, that they didn't even know existed, or at the very least, they didn't know were biblically sound churches.
So I might be able to help you, too. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Bishop Peter Robinson on the subject we are discussing today, lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today.
And that's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. And Bishop Robinson, we have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, obviously, the American Revolution was a war that erupted in the 18th century.
On theological lines, how did that divide brothers and sisters in Christ who are part of the Anglican communion?
We have, let's see here, CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York,.
Says on a previous Iron Sharpens Iron radio program, I heard a debate between two confessional, conservative, Protestant and Reformed Anglicans who differed on the ashes for Ash Wednesday. One believed that it was just a remnant of potpourri that should be ignored and abolished.
One thought it was a completely fine tradition to maintain within confessional Protestant Anglicanism. I was wondering where you stood on the issue, and if there is any consensus of the practice in the 18th century since, as you were saying earlier, the Oxford or more Catholic movement of Anglicanism was absent in that century.
And we have, let's see here, I was just looking at an interesting question a moment ago.
Oh, Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, wants to know, is there a continued, I'm trying to, I think he misspelled something here. Is there a continued hesitancy upon.
The part of confessional Anglicans towards Puritanism? Now, would that be more in the realm.
Of the strict adherence to the regulative principle of worship, or does it even go into.
The theology? Essentially, there is a consensus, but what would be the attitudes of most Anglicans with whom you share fellowship over someone like John Owen? The attitude, for the most part,.
Toward one of Owen's friends who was not identical to Owen, especially in regard to churchmanship, because he was Baptistic, but I'm referring to John Bunyan, who did fill Owen's pulpit on a number of occasions, and was greatly admired by John Owen, even though he had little to none, or little to no formal education, meaning Bunyan, of course.
One thing that was interesting is the aforementioned Stephen H. Ting that I brought up earlier. When I took a tour of St. George's Episcopal Church in Manhattan, I saw a stained glass window that was created in tribute to the pilgrim's progress.
So, where is Bunyan in regard to.
The attitudes of most Anglicans with whom you enjoy fellowship? As far as 18th century Anglicanism,.
What do you think can we learn, if it were to be applied as a parallel to what the Church of the 21st century is facing, and how we should be responding to the certain unique things that are.
Confronting us today? An anonymous listener who wants to know, is there any legitimate reason,.
In your opinion, that remains for a minister to remain within the mainline Church of England, or Episcopal Church here in the United States? And I'm assuming he's, or she, is asking about a biblically sound minister, because obviously there's plenty of reasons why somebody who is more concerned over a career or political attachments might remain in those churches, but as far as somebody who's, and I'm assuming that this would be a part of the question, but somebody who's theologically sound, confessionally faithful, biblically faithful.
Especially. Now I have witnessed in other denominations that have really, for the most part,.
Gone into, have collapsed into apostasy, but I have seen how you will have certain congregations within these denominations that are predominantly sold out to leftism. You will have congregations of ethnic minorities, whether they are Hispanic, whether they are Black, whether they are Asian, that are conservative or biblically faithful, and yet are left alone by the denominations, and I'm assuming, just out of fear, to appear to be racist by bossing around those who are of these ethnic minority groups.
Is that something that you witness in Anglicanism.
And Episcopalianism as well? Not perhaps. So you're saying that that is a parish. That is,.
Or those are parishes that are still remaining biblically faithful? No. You know, what I'm.
Saying is... Oh, okay. I'm assuming is one of the reasons for the existence of the United Episcopal.
Church of North America is because there is a great danger, and some would even say,.
A serious disobedience in being unevenly yoked. Well, we have to go to our final break right now.
It's going to be a lot more brief than the last breaks. If you do have a question that you'd like to ask, I strongly advise that you send it in quickly, because we are rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
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Welcome back, and Bishop Robinson, I forgot to ask you before the break, uh, the song, The Little Town of Bethlehem, uh, was that written by Philip, uh, Phillips Brooks when he was still an evangelical, or was that written when he became a proponent of liberalism?
Okay, well, I shall remember never to sing that song again. That obviously was a key tenet of the whole social gospel movement.
Which is why, uh, Margaret Sanger, uh, had remained for decades a hero of liberalism.
In spite of the fact that she was irrefutably a queen of racism. And if you could, I want to make sure that before we leave, you, uh, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in regard to lessons to be learned from 18th century Anglicanism today.
Now, as far as the first, uh, what are the, uh, obstacle courses that you have seen that might, uh, thwart or at least, um, dissuade someone from being more energetic and zealous in forming networks?
Summary.
I would like to make sure that all of our listeners have, uh, all the contact information that they would need to get in touch with you, and also to find congregations within your denomination in their area.
You have unitedepiscopal .org, unitedepiscopal .org, and are there any other, uh, ways of contacting you or other URLs that you'd like to share?
Uh, that's unitedepiscopal .org.
Well, folks, as we are now entering into New Year's Eve, and we'll be entering into a new year very shortly, I want to let you know that one of our sponsors, the Historical Bible Society, which we depend upon to exist as well, the financial support that they provide is absolutely essential, so we are hoping that you, uh, the listener, will return the favor to them, uh, thank them for sponsoring this show by helping them.
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Bishop Robinson? I look forward to your frequent return, God willing, in 2021 to Iron and Sharpen's.
Iron Radio as our guest. I hope everybody listens, has a very safe, happy, and healthy New Year's Eve, and especially the new year ahead, and that you receive far more blessings than 2020 may have brought your way, and I hope you will always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.