Sharing Jesus at the Gaza Solidarity Encampment | EP 17

Cornerstone Church

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Here we are beautiful, Princeton, New Jersey Yep, we don't know what to expect out here today.

00:07

Let's say we're gonna walk right into the tent city going to 10 city gospel We're not going in to say

00:12

Israel or Palestine. We're going in and say Jesus Christ. Amen Howdy sir, what's good for lunch?

01:07

Part of this. Oh, that's okay. Go find your information where you got to find your information.

01:12

Don't take people's pictures Okay, all right, thanks No, actually not.

01:20

We just wanted to get your opinion on something if you have a few minutes And do you mind if I film too? I do. Yeah, okay

01:27

You doing yeah. Hey, can I get your opinion on something? Oh, you want me to do the interview with him?

01:38

This First video is pastor Tim speaking with a young man who originally didn't want us to record at all

01:45

After speaking for a while. He consented to an interview I think he had some sincere questions about Jesus as you will see

01:53

He was a slender young man who you're not gonna see at all. There's no video. Let's see a picture of pastor

01:58

Tim He recently graduated from Drexel. However, he was on Princeton University's campus in support of the

02:07

Gaza Gaza Solidarity encampment. He was wearing a one of those checkered scarves that you might see a

02:16

Palestinian person wear and The recordings gonna pick up in the middle of the conversation

02:27

The wages of sin is death so Because they sin now they die so they were made to live forever but now

02:35

I don't know if you've noticed so, you know hundred out of a hundred people walking around this campus and a hundred out of a hundred people that lived before like You know hundred years ago or maybe a thousand years ago.

02:45

They all died, right? Right, so that's something that we all are have to think about eventually humans want to suppress that and not think about it

02:53

But it's because we all sin and Adam originally sin and now we inherit this sin problem that we all die

03:00

So the Bible says none of us are good. Not even one. Sure. Do you think that you are a good person?

03:09

I have always wondered what it would be like to get to something like heaven and have a tally of Like everything

03:20

I've done and not really weigh it against what's been good and what's been bad but like how many

03:28

I Words I've read or stuff like that like more more fun and Less wait, so am

03:38

I Okay, sorry, sorry

03:49

John so you're thinking about heaven and you're wondering like if you get there, you know do your good tallies outweigh your bad type of thing and So God actually says that everyone will give an account for every word they ever spoke

04:01

Now that's kind of a scary thing to think about because I've said some things that I'm ashamed of I don't know about you

04:07

You probably can admit to saying some things you probably wish you could take back What do you think?

04:14

I? think every day you kind of have to Think every day you just gotta

04:28

Come to terms with what you've said and what you've done and that way you can get to sleep at night

04:35

Thank you All right. So John just was gifted with a Bible. Have you ever read anything from the

04:41

Bible John? I Believe so I've been given a book of Mormon on this campus as well

04:50

That was during high school I went on an art field trip here Well, that is a great gift that pastor

05:00

Jeff just gave you I hope that you do read it Because if God really spoke through his word wouldn't you want to know what he said?

05:07

Yeah. Yeah, so I hope you do start reading that. Do you think that you will read that book? I got a lot of other books in my list of reading but this is gonna be on there

05:17

Okay. Good. Do you think that the other books are more important than that book? I Feel like Sorry in mind that's probably the most printed book ever made.

05:30

Yeah seen in a bunch of hotel. Yeah Thanks.

05:35

I don't know what that was. I just mean either Some folded piece of paper in here that fellow

05:41

So, how about I turn the conversation a little bit? I'm gonna ask you some some personal questions.

05:47

So the first one is John how many lies do you think you ever told in your life?

05:53

I'd like to hope under a million No idea

06:01

But you're admit that you know, what do you call a liar? I mean, uh someone who tells lies you call them a liar

06:08

Right. Well even something where you kind of withholding the truth could be giving false witness or or not or we're saying like just under What would be the truth right so Trying to deceive someone in a way.

06:28

That's yeah, like a white lie. They say do you think God likes that? Probably not probably not right?

06:34

I mean so is the Eating of the

06:39

Apple that made that possible Right. Yeah. Well, that was the first sin that we've all inherited through through Adam Because Adam was our representative in the garden

06:53

Now, let me ask you another question. Have you ever stolen anything? Yeah. Yeah, how many things you think you stole in your life?

07:01

Less than a thousand. Okay, maybe less than 500. Okay, cool Now have you ever think

07:08

I think it could be like not physical things as well Right, and I assume you're probably not married right or you are right not married.

07:16

Yeah, I don't see a ring So you haven't physically committed Adultery on your wife because you don't have a wife.

07:23

But have you ever looked at a woman? With lust in your heart. Yeah, it's not your wife.

07:28

Yeah, you have so Jesus says even if you didn't commit a look adultery You still have if you looked at a woman with lust in your heart, so you've committed the deeper meaning of adultery

07:39

So, how about have you ever used the Lord's name in vain? Yeah, okay, have you ever noticed you've never used like Buddha or let's say

07:51

Muhammad or you know, anyone else's name, but it just has to be you know, oh my god or Jesus Christ, right?

07:57

There's an interesting point. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, but it's in now Did you know that that's in the

08:03

Ten Commandments that don't use the Lord's name in vain? But yeah, yeah people do it all day long. I feel

08:08

I've heard that that also applies to like not saying something happened because of Jesus Christ or When it's actually something that you know man has done

08:23

Yeah, that could be that's that's possible. So, you know, I'm not judging you

08:28

John But from what you've told me you've told me that you're a lying Blaspheming adulterer at heart thief, would you agree with that analysis?

08:39

I Think the at -heart is a bit of a jump to conclusion Well, okay, you'll admit to the other three though That it's happened yeah, so sounds like a parking ticket that got mailed to one of my co -workers and it was just this this thing where you go take a quiz online and It's like the same questions and it's like oh you you have done all these bad things

09:06

You must repent but also no amount of repenting will help because Jesus Christ came and Saved you from your sins, but Well, so if you think all sins are still bad

09:20

Yeah, so kind of so if you think about it like you are sinning against a holy

09:26

God So you so you've admitted to you know going against three out of the Ten Commandments So if God were to judge you on his moral law, right the

09:35

Ten Commandments, but would you be innocent or guilty? I Think it happens to Matter like whether you're honest about it and whether you're

09:51

Sorry for it. Well, let's see if we go to court right and you know, you witnessed me just taking

09:57

Joe's life Right. I just killed him right here on the spot and we're in court and you're and you're an eyewitness to it there's evidence that I killed

10:04

Joe and then and I you know hit Joe's dead and I go to court and I'm just like You know, well,

10:11

I still feel like I'm kind of a good person and and you know, it's just this one time You know, could you let me go judge?

10:19

Well, there there are a lot of factors that go into judging someone like was it out of self -defense like right?

10:26

No, this is just me sitting in the park. You know what? I'll think I'll kill Joe so Man Man made them

10:44

You take you go to the Ten Commandments and Exodus 20 take a couple pages over But I am just trying to reveal that you know

10:54

There is bad news that we've all sinned against God and God is he's not like a corrupt judge here on earth

11:00

He's a good and righteous judge where he does punish evil So, you know, you've heard of Jesus Christ and what he's done for sinners we're all sinners so that we cannot like we can't be in the presence of God and Live with God eternally because we're sinners like now we're destined to go to hell

11:19

If we don't repent and trust in Jesus because Jesus is the only way Jesus says I am the way the truth in life

11:25

No one comes to the Father except through me. So meaning like There's no way to save yourself

11:32

Like, you know, you have a better chance of taking that soda can and throwing it to the moon

11:37

No matter how hard you try you're not gonna get that soda can to the moon So it's like no matter how hard you try to do good and save yourself throughout life.

11:45

It's not gonna work That's why you need Jesus Christ the one who lived a perfect and good righteous life that we couldn't live and then became the perfect Sacrifice on a cross.

11:54

So he died on the cross and rose from the dead and then anyone who believes that message is the gospel anyone who hears and believes the gospel is

12:02

Saved and is deemed a child of God and entrance into God's kingdom based on not what they did

12:09

But what Jesus has done so Jesus paid your punishment and your debt that you owed and then has given

12:15

His righteous life that he won and and has given it to you so that you can walk in to the kingdom of God With your sins forgiven now, does that make sense?

12:27

Do you think that that could be true John? well, I think I Don't really know the full extent of what repenting is having not gone to church my whole life

12:37

Okay, so yeah, so repent it is tricky. So repenting So what repent means is to change your mind or to turn around?

12:45

So all of us are doing and thinking the wrong thing Throughout life. We're prone to do that That's why we need

12:52

God's Word to change our thinking and to renew our thinking to think about the right things things of God but every man has gone gone their own way and determining right and wrong for themselves just like Adam and Eve did and has gone

13:07

The wrong way and now God has called some people and reached down to turn some people around that's repenting turn away from a lifestyle of sin and living life your own way and Turning towards faith in Jesus Christ that can save so it's not just about being in a booth next to the pastor

13:28

So, yeah, so Jesus is the only mediator between God and man he's fully

13:34

God fully man he's perfect for it So Jesus is the one that speaks on our behalf to God, but it's not some priest in a booth

13:44

He's a sinner too. Yeah I Guess my grandpa was

13:49

Roman Catholic I grew up Roman Catholic so to Joe a lot of us did but we Repented even from that and turned around because God has called us to something greater

13:59

To be a disciple and you know a student of who God is and a student of his word So we just go around sometimes to campus and try to spread the word that the gospel of Jesus Christ because that's what saved us and You know, we're called to do that.

14:13

Yeah, you know being Christians. That's what we do. So, what do you think? Do you respect us doing that? Do you believe any of this?

14:19

Sure. Yeah, it's always respectful to talk to people get their opinions spread what you believe is right and Yeah, then

14:27

I have a question for you is Calling back to what you're saying about like Jesus has never done anything wrong

14:35

Like yeah, I don't want to be disrespectful, but I've heard of these Other books that aren't in the

14:40

Bible of I think they're called the Apocrypha. Yeah yeah, so that I think that's the book that talks about Jesus's childhood and how like he would

14:54

Use his powers kind of willy -nilly and like kill people just by Saying something about them dropping

15:08

Oh, yeah They were

15:19

Jewish history books The Jews never accepted as Scripture in the Old Testament between 400

15:26

BC and Jesus's life But they didn't talk about Jesus. That was it's where we get

15:32

Hanukkah from stuff. Okay. Yeah So yes, according to the

15:37

Bible that you know, according to the New Testament. That's always been accepted as the canon of Scripture Has never never did anything wrong.

15:48

There might be made -up stories about Jesus. I mean even the Quran says things about Jesus about how he's even a prophet and will come back and judge the world

15:57

But they only see him as a prophet not God or the Son of God and they don't see him as the one that died

16:02

On the cross and rose from the dead, but that's the very thing you need to believe to be saved So there's lies out there

16:08

Jesus says the devil is the father of all lies. So I think that the devil really is behind all the other religions in the world

16:16

Because it's all they're all lies and you know You seem like a logical guy if Jesus is saying, you know,

16:22

I'm the Christ follow me I'm the Son of God and you know, if we look at Christianity and we're saying that Jesus died on the cross

16:29

He rose from the dead, you know He either did do all that stuff and he is the Son of God who did all that or he isn't you can't just make up Two worlds where you know,

16:38

I you know, he's this and he's also that but like that's true for me You believe that that's true for you

16:43

That doesn't work right John like two plus two if you make a world where two plus two equals four

16:48

You can't live in the same world and make that equal five and four You know what?

16:54

I mean if that makes sense so like Just by logic thinking like if Jesus is saying

17:00

I am the way the truth in life No one comes to the father except through me. Jesus is either telling the truth or he's lying or he's a lunatic

17:08

So do you have beliefs about? Like other people's

17:13

Religions not being the same affecting the collective and hurting

17:20

Like your chances that getting into heaven. Yeah, sure. I studied a lot of religions at one point in my life when like when

17:27

I became a Christian because I wanted to see like am I believing the right Thing or they do they think they're believing the right thing and I've actually come to the conclusion that you know

17:36

Christianity is the only religion worth even following Mainly because you get eternal life and all your sins forgiven

17:44

And you have the real Jesus with real historical facts to back all that up But the reason why we do preach now is not because we're like hate people with other religions we want them to convert and be saved too because we once were far off and lost so I'm not concerned with what they believe because I've come to know that I have the truth because God has revealed the truth to me

18:08

So when a lie comes about, you know, it's easy for me to identify it because I have the truth like right

18:14

So you're not just doing it for yourself. Yeah, I'm not doing it for myself God rescued me and our allegiance

18:19

Joe and I our allegiance is to Jesus Christ first and foremost So if someone comes along and they don't like what we're doing

18:26

We're not gonna pay it much mind because we're trying to please God. We're not trying to please a man if that makes sense

18:33

Yeah, you would Tim and I were talking to the car on the way here and we're talking about I'm in sales I have a tech company

18:40

And We're talking about how this is what we're doing right here evangelizing sharing the good news of Jesus Christ.

18:48

It's very similar to sales Most some people think that sales is coercion You gotta be good at coercing people and twisting them into doing something but it's far from the truth

18:57

Especially business sales. The idea is you want to go and see does this person see that they have a need?

19:04

Right, they have a need for us something and will they allow you to help them? Those are the two things and that's what we're trying to do is we're going out

19:12

Trying to see if can can we show people their need like he shows you? You know all these things that you've all these sins that you've been engaged in But he wants you to see that because of those sins

19:24

You can't be next to a holy and perfect God and a holy and perfect God wouldn't logically allow you near him but that there is

19:33

So you have this need so first he wants to you need and then the second thing is will you allow us to help you? yeah, we're coming out here because we love you

19:41

John and we want you to make a decision to start living for Christ and and Really have a great purpose in life.

19:48

This is cool that you're you know, pastor Jeff said that you were zealous and everything, you know, we could use people like you for the gospel and where you

19:57

Can actually be rewarded for that when when your life is over and God is giving out rewards

20:02

He will not look at your sin But look at the good things that you've done for the sake of Jesus Christ and reward you and give you his kingdom

20:13

So I do have another question is How do you like?

20:20

balance the thoughts in your head of like our beliefs are the right ones and We want other people to be happy and we won't really be worried by other people saying that we're wrong like how do you you balance like I Wouldn't say hypocrisy but something where you don't give the same like Like Like you don't come off as proud or arrogant type of thing.

20:57

No like you don't disrupt other people's right beliefs and ways of living and so I think

21:04

Historical culture nature is like you don't want to do that You don't want to disturb other people like we don't want to just come up to this

21:12

Protest and believe different things and and and start trouble for no reason You know what?

21:17

I mean, we we come because one we saw Jesus do it Jesus was not afraid of conflict because Jesus knew he had the truth like even when people heard

21:26

Jesus talk They're like this guy is different. He speaks with authority like he knows what he's talking about because he did

21:32

He was the God of the universe. So when we see Jesus model it for us and then you know, the believers after him

21:39

It makes it a little bit easier because we know it's true So it's like your soul is on the line

21:46

John like your soul is depending whether you believe in Jesus Christ or not So for me like if I was on the outside I would hope someone comes and shares the gospel with me

21:55

So out of love for you and you know out of love for God We we come and try to share that with you no matter people don't want us to that's very nice I do think

22:04

I have to go now So, sorry, so John any last thoughts we'll wrap this up any last comments or thoughts

22:18

Thank you for the Bible, all right. All right. Thanks John So, sorry

22:35

Jesus says in John 3 3 just for the reference So so the viewers might know that Jesus says you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven

22:44

So you are just for the record claiming to be born again. Yes. Okay now I I would say to you that I then met father

22:51

McSee as I was waiting one February night to hear a speech by Chris Smith Congressman Chris Smith local to this area champion pro -lifer and It was a no -show because it was a heavy winter storm, but I was sitting next to this priest

23:06

He was in a long black Catholic castle and we got to talking and I told him about my reason why and in my pro -life

23:12

Conversing song so come talk to him So I did talk to him and I found that I was very moved by the doctrine of the

23:21

Catholic faith What I think about it the Evangelicals, but also the Catholics there, you know doctrinally pro -life and there's a lot of history and tradition and ritual that appealed to me and I remember back from my youth as My grandmother took me to a

23:38

Catholic Mass I was about seven years old and I remember the incense and the bells and all the rest of it It always had an impression upon me.

23:44

Mm -hmm. And as I told you I was baptized as an Episcopalian So I was familiar with ritual which I write a ritual

23:50

So I kept going I kept going and I in the end through his tutelage and so on I finally said

23:55

I'm gonna become a Catholic partly because I have to tell you my wife is Not a

24:01

Christian free thinker. Yes was her. She's from Chinese from Singapore. Okay, so I was very mindful of her

24:10

Sovereignty and her independence, you know, we have to respect everybody where they are and meet them where they are But I also in studying

24:16

Catholic doctrine came to understand that and this is a bit invariance with Evangelical thinking, you know,

24:23

John 3 16 tells us that we you know, I believe under Jesus Christ and we set free. Yeah Catholic Doctrine is actually more encompassing and inclusive than that, which is to say

24:34

I was worried about my wife's salvation the Catholic doctrine does Enable somebody who's not a professing

24:41

Christian to be saved, right? Right, so there's only one problem with that though.

24:47

Mm -hmm is that that really doesn't matter if it's not true right because if God's the one that is the judge and and says in his word that You're only saved by believing in him the one true

25:01

God and his son Jesus Christ By believing in him the believing the gospel and becoming born again if you don't have a profession of faith in in Jesus Christ dying on the cross and rising from the dead and and believing what's written then you're not gonna see a need to go proclaim the gospel

25:22

Because like we like Joe and I we see the gospel is what saves So like to me if if my girlfriend was a

25:30

Catholic and and I just said, you know what? Well, I'm a born -again Christian, but I'm gonna convert into being a

25:37

Catholic just so I don't have the pressure of converting her But really I think you should go back to being a born -again

25:44

Christian and make sure your wife's soul is saved so God works in mysterious ways and I am

25:51

I am humble in my faith and I came to a conclusion about that doctrine to pretty intense study.

25:57

I've got enormous respect Yeah for the evangelical approach, which doctrine is it here the doctrine of the

26:04

Catholic faith on salvation enables Potentially someone who's not necessarily saved in an evangelical means which is to say not professing

26:12

John 3 16 to be Potentially saved that's God's decision. It's technically accurate

26:19

Actually, they don't like they will it's so as a as a as a big thinker or free thinker

26:27

You'll appreciate this. I weeded out Catholicism because it was inconsistent and arbitrary and In the in the

26:37

Catholic doctrine while a Muslim can be saved, right? Yeah, absolutely

26:44

According to their doctrine so could a Buddhist or a Hindu But anyone who

26:51

Buddhist there's no particular salvation Well, that's why I mean but but the Catholics would say hey as long as you believe earnestly in your faith

26:58

You can be saved. But if you believe in faith alone or the five solos in faith alone by a

27:07

Scripture alone by faith alone. You are anathema according to the Council of Trent so this gets into solo scriptura versus But they've they've carved out a unique place in faith and so on the

27:19

Catholics if my point is the Catholics have carved out a Unique position. Well anyone they say anyone your your doctrine has an exclusion for us

27:28

This is what I'm saying Don't know about the exclusion for us meaning evangelical evangelicals or anyone that believes in the five solos.

27:35

So anyone who's reformed I think the issue here and I had a long mr.

27:40

D my evangelical friend and I have debated this quite a lot it's about the

27:47

Contest between solo scriptura and Justification by faith and justification by works.

27:53

Yeah, so Catholics have more justification in the works realm It's not to say they don't have justification by faith, which

28:00

I think is an error that evangelicals put upon Catholics Yeah, but my point is I came to understand this in my own understanding

28:09

Faith alone gets me about 80 % of the way, but I also have to live and practice the faith which

28:17

I do by manifesting good works As motivated by my faith, so I see it as a combination of faith and works together

28:25

One is not exclusive to the other and back to the wife I've just thought

28:32

She was the one who said to me you know Because she was very suspicious of by evangelical friends in Hong Kong.

28:40

Sure. I was going to John Wimber concerts at the time You know, I was all for the emotion the emotive elements

28:47

But it was she was very suspicious of this and she has a very practical sense She said, you know, you're gonna be wrong to a church.

28:53

Why don't you belong to a real church? That was her sort of materialist dope.

29:01

Well, I wouldn't I'm not falling for the rope You have to understand. I'm very serious in the self -study.

29:08

Yeah, I know you when she said that to me Yeah, that said to me she's because I she then revealed to me that she had a

29:14

Catholic education as a schoolgirl And then she had an Anglican education and you want to be respectful of that respectful and also, you know

29:22

Mindful as I was about my view on salvation if that would be one way to get her into Christianity You know evangelical or not, but that would be a benefit

29:31

I also then found out that her sister was a kid Catholic from way back and her Buddhist mother

29:39

Abu as we called her Then went on to have a deathbed conversion from Buddhism to Catholicism through the intercession of one of her

29:47

Catholic lady friends from Anyway, so why am I saying this? It's not to diss

29:53

Evangelicalism at all. No, I'm a great beneficiary. It is to say that in my own circle and experience

30:01

You know, we're all about trying to populate heaven and depopulate hell and You know if I can get somebody halfway there or 80 % of the way there, especially my loved ones

30:11

I would be very pleased with that. My son became a Catholic became a Presbyterian as it happens

30:19

He has passed since my daughter is So I've got a lot of work unfortunately to do and yeah,

30:24

I'm trying to evangelize Evangelize. Yeah evangelize. That's what you gotta do, but I do that through the modeling of the faith

30:32

And that's probably where the works comes in because if I if I come on with the scriptures and the tracks and all the rest

30:38

They turn off. So my strategy at the moment I don't know if it's working is that I have to do a lot more to improve my own heart and my own walk

30:48

Manifest myself better to be more of an exemplar. Yeah, they may be

30:53

Attracted to the faith. So yeah, so I agree with you Faith without works is dead faith not a real faith, but I think the difference is we believe

31:05

Once you have life -saving faith and you're a born -again Christian Good works are definitely gonna follow you because you're you're made new and now your desires are different to do good things but what you're saying is

31:19

Christ Death and burial on the cross is is only gonna get you faith and that is only gonna get you about 80 %

31:25

But then you got to complete the rest on your own I think that would be probably taking away from the glory of God and and and the gift that he's given

31:35

So do you think that maybe maybe? we should just Call people to repent the old -fashioned way.

31:43

Well, they put their faith in Christ to be saved Repent you're standing on a campus here that started as an evangelical

31:49

Presbyterian. Oh, yeah, we love that So our grader likes to hang out over there and the great awakening, yeah, very big in this part of the country

31:59

Yeah black robe regiment, but it's turned it's turned into well

32:05

We got going Given the crisis that's in the world today forget just this

32:19

Yeah, I don't have to tell you about what and you're working with youth. So right, you know the secularization of you

32:25

Yeah, the organization of the culture the decrystallization. Yeah, don't we have a lot in common?

32:32

And it's a freaking uphill battle that we have ahead of us. Oh, I mean don't get me wrong I respect you.

32:37

So I'm like, you know, so I what you're saying I am I try to be and given the walk that I made, you know

32:43

I try to be ecumenical and inclusive and humble so that's where I am today But I I cast no flies on the how

32:51

I got here and in fact a very prayerful and thankful for all elements What do you do here now

32:57

Tom? Are you a professor? I am retired. Okay, I was in the banking business for 20 years and then I Got into the nonprofit business.

33:05

I helped found a little foundation here for a very well -placed University in Nairobi, Kenya my son sadly contracted schizophrenia and That was a major life shift for me.

33:18

And so I had to stop working get him sorted out and through that I went back to Get a second master's degree this time in psychiatric rehabilitation

33:26

Okay, which is the art science and practice of helping individuals with psychiatric disabilities

33:32

Achieve recovery on their own terms as they define it for themselves a lot of agency And I went to work in the field.

33:39

So I was administrator director of administration director of a well -placed mental health recovery outfit

33:48

Statewide here in the state of New Jersey, but I'm since retired and in my retirement to do a lot of work with mental illness

33:55

Okay psychiatric disability So we do have to probably get to interview and some other people before we want to leave

34:03

But do you want to ask any questions Joe or maybe you have questions for us before we cut out any questions?

34:09

I'm loving your t -shirt. Thank you Jesus saves and I'm a disciple who lends a hand

34:15

I would say In relation to what we have here. This is a very heartfelt demonstration

34:24

As to what people in this camp here are perceiving to be Rendered here and it

34:38

I think we have evidence here of a struggle of culture It's a struggle of religion, but it's fundamentally a struggle of culture religion informs both both sides of that so I'm patiently waiting to see how this resolves.

34:54

I suppose it will resolve peacefully, but I am also just taking to heart This call that I hear from me that we have to also be strong in our own faith also in our own

35:09

Evangelization also in establishing what are fundamental principles of righteousness and Correct thinking it's been sadly in absence of this a lot of this going on here

35:20

The diatribes the rhetoric here has been sadly A historical and manipulative in many respects

35:29

However, I extend my hearts to these people and wish that we can have more dialogue

35:35

I'm not trying to I'm not here to Convert or persuade anybody but just to first of all understand and dialogue with people

35:42

Well, you're in a different role. I don't but I don't but you would also I'm sure agree You know, we have to be we

35:49

Christians especially have to extend our hearts in faith, yeah and extend and then Like sheep without a shepherd

35:57

We are a soft people we are God driven people and yet we are also focused on righteousness and the

36:07

God is shining a way In the path by which we should walk so amen we're here to share the people it

36:15

I mean without Christianity There is no Liberty to have these kinds of demonstrations

36:20

I don't want to get into these people what they believe really about the demonstration But I want to share with them that where their freedom

36:26

Where their freedom to speak and think the freedom of speech comes from the black world regiment founded here at Princeton University The ultimate

36:34

I mean Christianity is a liberating faith. It is and it's what is Liberty? Although God we know from the

36:42

Bible that we are slaves in one way or the other Slaves to sin or slaves to Christ. Yeah, but it isn't

36:49

What's a good master? Correct, and it's in Christ that we have our ultimate Liberty. Mm -hmm

36:55

So I have a gift for you just for talking with us Nothing crazy, but hey

37:03

I think someone like you would would find this of great value how a Catholic can be sure

37:10

Hmm And I congratulate you on your important work,

37:17

I mean even you may have the most important role in your church Yeah, I appreciate that Tom Let me share one other thing with you.

37:36

Okay, don't forget that soul scripture can withstand the walls of any church

37:41

So you can be I know plenty. I know Catholic deacons That will not deny the five solas that will reject a lot of Catholic doctrine but the real thing is inside that Catholic Church a lot of people are

37:53

Rejecting doctrine at all and the leadership doesn't agree within itself.

37:59

It's a very strong of the leadership Yeah, let me say one thing. I had a mentor bring me along And I've already told you about the story of you know

38:08

You can exhibit a lot of faith in your daily life Why can't you put faith in Christ this mentor later also told me look because I was explaining as you are to me very nicely

38:18

You know, I don't get it. There's so many contradictions and so many this Doctrine is difficult and complex

38:24

Said Tom, let me just say to you think on this. It's not about resolution.

38:30

Mm -hmm. It's about applications Think I think less about how to resolve all these conundrums and difficulties.

38:35

Just be about the practice. Yeah Try to apply what you know, right as best you can right and you'll be doing you know, you could

38:44

Maybe you'll go to a theology theological seminary someday. You can work on all the resolution. Yeah, but I've taken that to heart

38:50

Yeah, you know and that's why I feel great affinity with my evangelical friends all the way We can

38:57

We can debate we could dialogue and we give it argue Yeah, but our fundamental basis in tradition as I know from John Witherspoon who stands right in front of that Chapel.

39:06

Yeah is Still solid. Oh, yeah, and and we have so much more to have to worry about in a secularizing

39:14

Agonizing. Oh, yeah We're just right, you know, we thought we're talking about all the time it always comes up we're talking about eschatology

39:22

I mean, it's like I don't worry about eschatology back when we get to 90 % of the Christians 90 % of the people in this country are following Jesus Christ We got a long way to go

39:32

We really do we have a but we got to show them that there's no inconsistencies But I do appreciate you being bold coming up saying that you're a

39:40

Christian who was called to come up to home here I was just standing here Hey there

39:53

Better than we deserve What do you say I said better than we deserve lovely. Yeah, how about you?

39:59

I'm doing pretty well What do you think you go when you die? You want to talk about it sit right here

40:09

How long is it as long as you want it to be? It's probably yeah, five's good

40:16

Am I recording Joe just to see yeah, you're good. Okay, so do you mind holding this or I can hold it for you?

40:21

Whatever you Thing yeah, so All right, the first question for you.

40:26

Well, my name is Tim. What's your name? I'm Sam Sam. Nice to meet you, Sam Yeah, we can just have a conversation

40:34

I guess the first question I have for you is Sam What do you think of the afterlife? I mean, it's a very real thing.

40:40

It's not considered enough Oh, wow, that's a good answer.

40:47

Okay. So what do you think that the afterlife might be? I think the afterlife might be a

40:54

Place where our soul considers what it's done in this life and how it can improve in the next.

41:00

Mm -hmm. Okay so have you considered um, maybe like Like a heaven or hell type thing have not

41:08

I have I have Do you think that could be true? Only time will tell only time will tell do you think that if heaven or hell is as a real thing?

41:18

Do you think like who would go to heaven and who would go to hell? I? Think people that would go to hell would be those who act in a way in this life such that it would fit who they

41:27

Are hmm. Okay, and the same with heaven. So kind of like good people go to heaven bad people go to hell type thing yeah, and I think when you say good and bad it's more like What type of not necessarily just good and bad in the way you act but also the sort of reality you want to live in For eternity, so like you're going to hell if you're somebody who desires competitive sort of hateful environment and the opposite for heaven

41:56

Okay. All right. So do you think that? You're a good person So I read with like a good person how you would define it like would

42:08

I go to heaven after this? Like yeah, you think that you would go to heaven Currently no, but I'd say by the time

42:16

I die well, okay What will keep you from going to heaven now and what's gonna save you from the time you die prefer not to elaborate?

42:23

Okay? So, can I ask you some more questions? How about one being how many lies you think you told in your life?

42:32

Thousands thousands. Okay. Have you ever stolen hundred hundreds hundreds? Okay, maybe not thousands hundreds.

42:38

Okay. Are you sure? That's not what I was you're telling me. I'm just kidding. It's an essence That's a generous yeah, okay generous accident.

42:45

Have you ever stolen anything before? Yeah, yeah, I think so, okay

42:51

Have you ever looked at a woman with lust never in my life never in your life?

42:56

Okay, have you ever looked at a man with lust? No. Okay. Wow, okay Have you ever used the

43:05

Lord's name in vain before the Lord being Jesus? Yeah Yes, okay

43:13

That's funny because you never would you know, say any other Lord, right? Or any other person's

43:18

God? Yeah, you say God. Yeah. Yeah God Jesus But you never say like, you know Buddha or Muhammad or or things like that Maybe because they're not

43:27

God But why is it that we like we wouldn't ever say our mother's name and use it as a curse word

43:32

But we do that with God for some reason just it just a thought but what you um Told me so far is you know,

43:40

I'm not judging you but you told me that you're a lying Blaspheming Thief, would you say that's real?

43:49

Well, you said that this is what I've done in my life Yeah, so in the past currently no currently now, okay, but in the past, you know, you've told lies

43:58

So what do we call a person that's told lies a Liar so but here's the thing if God were to judge you, right?

44:05

Would he judge you over your whole life or would he just judge you by the end of your life you think? I'm tempted to stay the end of your life because I think life is an evolutionary

44:15

Yeah process where you can change right? Yeah, I kind of agree with you But say God is judging you based on he gave out a law, right?

44:23

It's um 10 Commandments Have you ever heard of that before? So just we only went through four of them you admitted to breaking three of them

44:30

Yeah So if God were to judge you on the 10 Commandments, would you be innocent or guilty if you looked at your whole life?

44:37

Guilty guilty. So would it be heaven or hell? Well, it depends again on your definition of heaven or hell well would just be his definition of heaven or hell

44:48

According to this definition. I would be going to hell. Yeah going to hell now if God is is

44:53

True right and he spoke to us through his word and the Bible is real Do you believe the Bible have you ever read the

44:59

Bible before I think that it's been distorted a lot But I just think it has a divine essence to it.

45:05

Okay, so I don't know if you've heard in the Bible of Adam and Eve of course and they sinned in the garden and and you've probably heard that we've all

45:15

Inherited that sin problem from them. Yes where we all done wrong. So it's not just you That would have said

45:22

That would be guilty against this right we actually all would be guilty correct God says that no one is actually good.

45:28

Not even one. We've all Gone our own way. We all have gone astray we've all wanted to go do our own thing and we we kind of Suppressed God like you said in the in the beginning

45:39

We kind of a lot of people suppress God and suppress even thinking about death and thinking about the afterlife really because of unrighteousness

45:48

But it's kind of human nature now to kind of go against God and do something different agree

45:54

But do you know what God has done to save? Sinners who are going their own way that is going the wrong way

46:01

I'm gonna assume that you're gonna say that he gave us our Lord and Savior and who's that? Jesus that is what

46:09

I'm gonna say, you know me pretty good already. So yeah, he did He sent his son Jesus Christ and Jesus was not like us

46:15

Jesus lived a perfect life and he though we sin and we do the wrong thing. He never did the wrong thing

46:21

He fulfilled the law perfectly He lived a perfect and righteous life and he became the perfect sacrifice on a cross

46:27

Have you ever heard of Jesus dying on a cross? Of course. Yep. Have you ever heard what happened after he died on the cross?

46:33

Three days later, he was resurrected. He resurrected. Do you know that's the gospel? Yes, I do.

46:39

Do you know anyone who hears and believes that gospel message? No, I don't. Is given the Holy Spirit and is and the

46:45

Holy Spirit is their guarantee in into heaven eternal life Yes, do you know that? Okay. So Anyone who believes in Jesus, right?

46:53

Jesus is not just the Prophet. He's fully God fully man. And when he lived he he

47:01

Performed a lot of miracles. He was this good moral teacher he was a prophet just like a lot of people say but his main mission was to come and die and He was dying a death that we deserve on a cross

47:12

So God sent his son to be punished on a cross and you know who punished Jesus on that cross the

47:19

Romans the Romans put him there right and the Jews handed him over and You know, it's it's right that man killed him.

47:26

But did you know that Jesus, you know because he was God Do you think that they really if Jesus didn't want to die?

47:33

Do you think don't you think he could have just escaped if he was God? Don't you think he could have caught a legion of angels? I don't think so because he was

47:39

God embodied in the flesh So okay subject to limitation. So actually the whole time throughout his ministry

47:45

They did try to kill him not the whole time. I would say more towards the end No in the beginning to a lot of people tried to kill him, but he would escape

47:52

Like, you know a crowd would be ready to throw him off a cliff But somehow they they lost track of where he is, you know, he

47:58

Jesus had that power to escape, you know Jesus he walked on water. He was a little bit different than than just mere man

48:05

Okay. Yeah, so yeah, so like he he actually raised people from the dead people who were blind

48:11

He touched them and then they're seeing people who were lame. Yeah, they couldn't walk paralyzed

48:16

He healed them and and you know people with diseases Jesus touched them and instead of him being infected by the disease.

48:23

He made them clean So Jesus was a little bit different, you know, yeah, I do agree. You do agree, but I don't know

48:28

I Think he had healing powers, but I'm not sure he would have been able to escape from the cross if he was nailed to it

48:34

Okay. Well, Jesus says that he's I don't mean to interrupt. No, that's okay. I appreciate that So Jesus says that no one takes my life for me.

48:41

I lay it down willingly I think that was more of a metaphor though. You think that was metaphor? Well, let's just say you mean it literally he literally did die and he prophesied that he would die on the cross and that's what he

48:52

Came to do so him dying, you know side note. I actually think that Jesus escaped from the cross.

48:58

Okay? Yeah, that's what the Muslims say too, but I don't believe that I think that Jesus did die on the cross

49:04

And you're okay to have your own opinion But it's it wasn't so much the

49:10

Romans that put him there and the Romans It was God's plan from the beginning to send Jesus to die on the cross, but it was

49:16

God that punished his own son So Jesus stepped in in my place. It should have been me on the cross me suffering the wrath of God, but Jesus took it for me and He paid my debt that I owe so it's either

49:29

Jesus has paid your debt Or that you're gonna have to pay your debt at the end of your life and suffer in hell for eternity

49:37

So to think about how a little bit you can think about the afterlife. So think about do you think that? Hell is a place that you would want to spend just your own thinking of it

49:47

No, the Bible calls it a weeping place of gnashing of teeth Jesus says it's better to cut off your right hand and enter into life

49:55

Without your hand that it is for your whole body to be thrown into hell So it's a very very bad place.

50:00

Jesus says it's like fire. It's eternal flame. So Think about being in hell

50:06

Right. Have you ever been in a sauna before? Yes, how long can you stay in that sauna for an hour an hour, right?

50:13

How about five thousand years? Probably not. How about ten thousand years? How about one trillion years from now?

50:19

Probably not. Okay, so that trillion years Depends on what happens in your life right now the small little life you agree, right?

50:27

So What if I told you that Jesus offers you? Forgiveness of all your sin and eternal life with him

50:36

Is that a is that an offer that is appealing to you? Very appealing very appealing, right? Only a fool would turn that down, right?

50:43

Only a only there are many fools in today's world. There's many fools. Yeah, but jesus calls

50:50

Those who believe in him to repent, you know what that means? Of course confess to their sins confess their sins

50:55

But it also means turn away change their mind so Turn away from a lifestyle of sin

51:02

And trust in jesus alone for salvation knowing that you yourself. You can't save yourself You trying to save yourself is like jumping out of a airplane without the parachute and trying to flap your arms

51:13

You think that'll work? Probably not. You need the parachute. You know, the parachute is Christ christ jesus christ is that parachute?

51:20

So it's a logical and it's the right thing to do to put your faith in jesus christ

51:26

Do you agree with that statement? I do. Do you think that? You're a born -again christian

51:32

Someone who so jesus says you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven someone who hears and believes the gospel

51:38

And is given the holy spirit I'm a born -again believer in christ, but not a born -again christian.

51:44

Okay, born -again believer in christ, but not what's the difference? I think the essence of what you're saying.

51:50

I I grasp and embody but not the not some of the specific So some of the so what theology the theology so what is some of the specifics that you are not agreeing with um necessarily that like God judges our life, uh based on the ten commandments

52:11

Okay Yeah, so that actually you did a good job because that was more of a hypothetical Because well god is gonna judge us

52:20

But not based on that I think so it's not based on that only if you're covered in the blood of christ so in the old testament, they did animal sacrifices where the animals would die and and An atoning would be made for the sacrifice of of of blood through the animal

52:36

So the animal sacrifice would temporarily cover up sin, but jesus came and because without um blood

52:44

There's no forgiveness of sin. Jesus came and died once and for all as a way more valuable sacrifice

52:50

And not just covered it up, but totally can take it away through his blood and believing in him

52:55

Do you think that could be true? Yeah, okay. So What do you think is a good time to repent and trust in jesus christ?

53:05

Whenever you're open to the possibility of it being a reality, I think a lot of people write it off Is is nonsense so when they'll reach a point where it's like, oh this this could be a real thing

53:15

So when you person sorry, I'm I cut you off you got it. No, that's fair So when have you personally done that or have you done that yet?

53:23

Um prefer not to say Prefer not to say okay. So It's like my life.

53:29

It's like your life I know it's your life But like wouldn't you want people to know like if you are a believer in christ and you've experienced salvation

53:36

Wouldn't you want other people to know about it? I think it's not a specific It's not marked by specific events or even a specific time, but there are multiple times that you can turn to christ

53:47

Amidst darkness. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that because he's always there with us He's still alive today right now, but you do need to go to him and ask him for forgiveness and um

53:58

And and personally recognize him as your lord of your life not just you making your own decisions

54:03

I don't know if i've I don't know if I have repented to christ yet. Oh, no. Okay. So what keeps you from doing that?

54:10

Um It hasn't been thrust upon my awareness as a specific action to take as something to enter

54:17

Heaven, okay So jesus says this and this this was kind of convincing to me

54:22

He says I am the way the truth and the life. Yeah No one comes to the father except through me, you know the rest of it.

54:30

I do know I do know many biblical verses Okay, so if jesus is really claiming that that no one gets to the father except through him

54:38

Like he's either telling the truth He's lying or he's a lunatic. Like what do you think?

54:44

I think that he's telling the truth. But again, I think it's more of a metaphor than a direct Claim that I jesus christ the person am

54:54

The only way to heaven. I think it's more that I am the way when he says that phrase,

55:00

I think it's About the way that he was living his life and the in the perception that he had

55:06

Okay, that's fair But couldn't it be both it very well could be because I kind of think both

55:13

Yeah, it could what do you think now? I think Like what do what do

55:19

I think of that phrase like right after our conversation? Yeah, because like I think it's willing to consider like If he's really the way the truth and the life not just like just the way of living

55:30

But the only way like he says no one comes to the father except through me Meaning like through him.

55:37

He's he's the only way into heaven is by believing on him Like that is the only way god for I don't know if our conversation has changed my mind

55:47

I think there are many ways to heaven and I think when jesus says I am the way the truth and the life

55:54

It's not necessarily that I jesus christ am but it's like the principle of what? Repenting would be so I think there are many ways to repent and many

56:04

Religions traditions Different ways that you can repent but I do agree that the principle

56:11

Of what he's saying and the archetype of the psychological event is definitely true.

56:17

Okay That makes sense. Okay, because I think that's that's a dangerous thing because like What if it really is true that jesus is the only way and he meant it in a literal way true?

56:27

Well, that's the thing that we'll go over that too. If it's not true then okay, there's many ways I'll see you in heaven bro.

56:33

But what if it is true? I make it and that means that someone who doesn't believe that is on the outs I personally do believe it but i'm saying that there are many there's room for other people that not believe it and I think

56:44

Oh, so you do believe like jesus is the only way I don't believe jesus is the only way I believe that he is

56:50

A way a way so this is like my logical thinking if like if jesus jesus is jesus is a way and a way that I Can consider okay and embody right?

57:03

Okay, so that so even if he was the only way I would still be Eligible to enter the kingdom of heaven

57:09

Even if I don't believe that he's the only way Right. Okay. So wouldn't you want to just believe?

57:16

That he is the way though because if you're choosing that path anyway And you know that it's possible that anyone who doesn't believe that Would not make it wouldn't you want to convince people to believe that he is the way not just a way

57:31

I See your point But I need to be convinced further convinced to preach the gospel to others.

57:37

Okay So how about over 300 prophecies in the old testament hebrew bible? And then but I don't think that there have been prophecies in many other of the religions that i'm saying that have also come true

57:47

Um, not to the extent of the bible of I disagree So so what are some other so they're like prophecies in many african religions

57:58

Native american religions the cosmology of hinduism and buddhism is

58:05

Arguably more accurate than a lot of the the Dogma in the gospel not that it's incorrect.

58:12

Okay, I I would disagree with you, but I i'm happy you brought that up so like the cool thing about Um, the bible is like it kind of proves itself to be true.

58:23

So like over 300 prophecies that are going about one Okay, sorry for that. So just real quick just real quick over 300 prophecies that are specific about jesus 700 years before jesus is born and then jesus fulfills them all and some of them he couldn't control

58:38

Well, I think because he's god he controlled it but a person like can't just decide when they're going to be born, right?

58:44

so like he One of the prophecies that he was going to be born in bethlehem He was born in bethlehem

58:50

You know what? I mean? So I i'm not denying that but i'm saying why does that mean that he's the only way?

58:56

As opposed to well, I think because of every like the scripture itself proving

59:02

He's the christ and then him claiming to be the only way and him claiming to be the son of god and then his miracles

59:08

To attest who he was and then I think the main thing is him rising from the dead

59:14

I think he has power over the debt the dead, but he also him doing that claimed Like him rising from the dead

59:21

Was him saying everything that I told you was true Earlier but wouldn't that be a metaphor?

59:28

No, because he physically rose from the dead But but why would him physically rising from the dead? Therefore mean that a statement that you just said is true about him being so like him

59:38

By the way, i'm just playing devil's advocate here. Okay, like i'm just Rebuttaling you.

59:43

Yeah. Yeah, I I appreciate it. I do and you're right. Maybe okay Well any last comments or questions before you go?

59:49

Oh sam. Actually, I got some stuff for you if you want real quick Okay, when's the last time you read a bible?

59:59

A couple months ago a couple months ago. Do you have one? No, I don't but I will take one So this is just a gospel john.

01:00:05

Hopefully. Thank you. And uh, this is an account of jesus's life So you can decide so that that book kind of forces you into a decision or at least he wants you to make a decision

01:00:13

Appreciate it. So that way that'll help you out. All right. Bye. Bye guys By the way, I would answer that other question is every other religion is arbitrary and inconsistent

01:00:22

All right, thank you. Peace Good job, joe Good job keeping my mouth shut because it's hard I get so excited.